Teaching numbers: any indication of quality?

[David Bailey]

Having seen lots of similar posts today making the same point - that hundreds of people enjoying themselves at a class (how dare they?), so it must be a great class - I've finally snapped and started this thread.

For example:

all I can say is 500 + people seem to me to be enjoying themselves laughing, happy and having fun.
I've several time mentioned the obvious rebuttal to this of "So what? I don't care how many people are in the class."

To me as a punter, the fewer attendees, the better in some ways - it means the teacher has more time to spend on you, so you get better value for money IMO, and can actually ask questions etc.

But what do other people think?

[LMC]

*fetches wooden spoon*

But seriously folks... for me, it depends on a) the space and b) the balance of men to women. Howard and Nicola's blues class at SP last September was just impossible, because there must have been at least 600 people squeezed into not enough space and there were so many women to move on that we spent most of our time traipsing around and missed half the teaching, as H&N couldn't see how the "line" was moving owing to the lighting.

I agree with the fewer the better in terms of teacher time/attention. Only 12 people at AT last Tuesday made the experience far better for me than it would have been with 112 - and that was nothing to do with space.

[David Franklin]

To me as a punter, the fewer attendees, the better in some ways - it means the teacher has more time to spend on you, so you get better value for money IMO, and can actually ask questions etc.I largely agree with your point, but I think I have to take issue with your poll. I think you're confusing two issues here - whether a teacher attracts crowds, and whether it's better to learn in a small or large group. Take, for example, Nigel and Nina. They have no problem pulling the crowds, but I have no doubt I'd get more from their teaching a small group.

As a slight aside: having watched a fair few classes at weekenders, I am against "problematic" classes being taught in large groups. It is pretty much impossible to keep an eye on what everyone is doing in those circumstances. There's no way you can tell if someone at the back has turned a "looks naughty but actually has no contact" move into a full-on grope. Or if someone at the back has completely misunderstood your safety advice on an aerial.

[LMC]

DavidF, will you please stop making so much sense all the time? I already owe you about 240 rep points.

[clevedonboy]

Absolutely no correlation IMHO.

The subject for a class has most bearing on the number of attendees.

E.G. In Bristol / Bath we have two fantastic teachers - Graeme & Ann but they teach Lindy so they get 20 people, whilst the beginners ballroom class in the next door hall gets over 100. An average leroc class near to me with nothing special about the teachers (I'm being kind there) gets over 80.

Another thing I've experienced is that intermediate dancers are attracted to move based classes - they'd tend to go for Cabaret Moves ahead of Lead and Follow

[David Franklin]

DavidF, will you please stop making so much sense all the time?
Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!

+ve rep to the first person to get the reference...

[clevedonboy]

Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!

+ve rep to the first person to get the reference...

potter?

[LMC]

Albus Dumbledore in his start-of-term speech to be precise. I forget which book, one of the first 2 I think.

I didn't even Google for that, I need to get out more :(

[David Franklin]

Albus Dumbledore in his start-of-term speech to be precise. I forget which book, one of the first 2 I think.Philosopher's Stone. But good enough!

[Rhythm King]

Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!

+ve rep to the first person to get the reference...
Harry Potter n'est ce pas? Anyway I think you hit the nail on the head with your previous comments. Just look at Amir's classes - they always work best in smaller numbers, so he can see what everyone is doing and give individual attention.

R-K

[ducasi]

All other things being equal, a high attendance shows popularity.

Popularity is not the same as quality, but I think you'll find that wasn't the matter being discussed...

[David Bailey]

I largely agree with your point, but I think I have to take issue with your poll. I think you're confusing two issues here - whether a teacher attracts crowds, and whether it's better to learn in a small or large group. Take, for example, Nigel and Nina. They have no problem pulling the crowds, but I have no doubt I'd get more from their teaching a small group..
Oh yes, I do indeed know the difference between a large class and a good class - or for that matter a good teacher and a popular teacher.

I just wondered if people on the forum did - if I were judging from the vast leaps of logic displayed in Other Threads, it didn't seem they did.

I know, it's Friday, and I'm cranky (crankier)...

[philsmove]

Clickty click

Yes I do like Tango

Taught in a small class by good teaches, who so, far in my experience, they all are

[Dizzy]

I largely agree with your point, but I think I have to take issue with your poll. I think you're confusing two issues here - whether a teacher attracts crowds, and whether it's better to learn in a small or large group. Take, for example, Nigel and Nina.

A good teacher will always draw in the crowd, take Finchley for example - when Adam is over, I am told that more people will attend :worthy:. Places like ISH and Ashtons are always crowded but that does not say anything about the teachers. It could be more about the atmosphere, floor, people, venue, time it closes etc.

[Sinner]

I think the whole question on numbers in classes bearing relation to quality of teaching is rather grey... so i voted for the 2nd option on this Poll.

When someone books private tuition they do not expect to share that time, they want maximum attention and hence expect to see a real improvment in their dancing etc

When I see classes at general venues in the week with low numbers, i see it as the venue is quiet not nessesssarily that the teaching is unsatisfactory, although in certain cases that may be so..

If i was teaching a workshop i would expect small numbers so a attention can be given to individuals.. so, small number, better quaility of class in that instance.


Regards weekenders, when people walk in and see 50/100 people in a class on a huge dance floor, they perceive it is not going to be good, especially if in another room a class has 500+ in it, rightly or wrongly, they will assume, the large class has the better quality of teaching or whatever..

So, in reality it is all a question of time and place in my opinion.. on occasions, small numbers is taken as a sign of quality and on occasions, large numbers is taken as a sign of quality..

I hope that has left the question as foggy as before....:what:

[Lynn]

Regards weekenders, when people walk in and see 50/100 people in a class on a huge dance floor, they perceive it is not going to be good, especially if in another room a class has 500+ in it, rightly or wrongly, they will assume, the large class has the better quality of teaching or whatever.. Yeah, large classes - whether at weekenders or not really, can say as much about the 'herd mentality' of the punters as the quality of teaching. Crowds draw crowds.

[WittyBird]

Doesn't matter to me who is doing the teaching. If I want to do the class the same rules always apply...

If there is more than 10 women over I head for the bar then sit and watch the class.

I can't be ar$ed with '10 ladies on please' I don't feel you get much out of it. But I am not one for queueing and it has been known on occasions I am a little impatient and get bored quickly.:whistle:

[Minnie M]

All other things being equal, a high attendance shows popularity....
and repeated high numbers, means popularity :flower:
BTW '10 ladies on please' in a class of 500 is nothing :really: :whistle:

[bigdjiver]

It is possible to get people into a class by using the right promotion. It is possible to get people that cannot tell the difference between a good teacher and a bad one to return, provided that they enjoyed the lesson and / or learned something.

[Minnie M]

............. cannot tell the difference between a good teacher and a bad one to return, provided that they enjoyed the lesson and / or learned something.
:confused: are you saying that bad teachers can teach you something and that bad teachers give enjoyable lessons :confused:

[David Bailey]

:confused: are you saying that bad teachers can teach you something and that bad teachers give enjoyable lessons :confused:
I think he's saying that a poor (inferior) product can be made into a valid business through things like clever marketing and standardisation. See Microsoft for details.

[Allez-Cat]

Not wishing to get mired in semantics and pedantry (on this forum? Perish the thought....), I’d like to respond from the viewpoint of the mid-week provincial ‘club’ night. In my opinion the teacher has a major impact: regardless of whether he/she is “good” or not, if his/her manner is appropriate, ‘sympathetic’ (for want of a better word) and perceived by the dancers to be effective, then classes will be well attended. I’ve seen a couple of venues go downhill and become very unpopular because the teacher has not shown sympathy: similarly I’ve seen one particular venue recover from rock bottom and build to consistently strong attendances by both novice and experienced dancers, very largely through the efforts and personality of the teacher.

Sure, there are other factors such as ‘marketing’, ambience, music mix, accessibility etc, but the teacher’s lead is crucial, whether it be on stage, readily joining in with the dancers outside class, or simply being professional, affable and approachable.

And I really don’t know which poll option fits this view, and I can’t Tango for toffee, so I’ll abstain.

[bigdjiver]

:confused: are you saying that bad teachers can teach you something and that bad teachers give enjoyable lessons :confused:No, I am saying that even a bad teacher can teach a "know-nothing" something, and that it is possible to entertain a class without teaching them anything. If it helps, imagine Tommy Cooper as a dance instructor.