Are Mikey's "Strictly Sinful" workshops ...

[ducasi]

OK, let's get a clear answer to this question. What do we think of workshops where moves that may resemble sexual behaviour are taught?

Hope I've got a set of options in this poll which will keep everyone happy...

[David Franklin]

Hope I've got a set of options in this poll which will keep everyone happy...Nope (sorry :flower: ). My feelings are roughly "I would prefer such moves weren't taught in Modern Jive but I wouldn't go so far as to ban them". While I don't see them as perverted, I don't like seeing them on the dance floor, so I really don't want to say they're OK, either.

[El Salsero Gringo]

OK, let's get a clear answer to this question. What do we think of workshops where moves that may resemble sexual behaviour are taught?

Hope I've got a set of options in this poll which will keep everyone happy...Are you having a laugh? Aren't there enough wind-up polls around at the moment?

[TheTramp]

Nope (sorry :flower: ). My feelings are roughly "I would prefer such moves weren't taught in Modern Jive but I wouldn't go so far as to ban them". While I don't see them as perverted, I don't like seeing them on the dance floor, so I really don't want to say they're OK, either.
:yeah:

I think that maybe 'distasteful', rather than perverted!

[Andy McGregor]

Hope I've got a set of options in this poll which will keep everyone happy...I'm afraid the options don't address my concern about these workshops. IMHO the workshops themselves are not perverted - but some of the moves are based on sexual practices that I consider perverted. The reason I don't think these moves should be taught is because they give pervs a licence to do them in freestyle - and that really happens as bigdjiver has said.

And the second reason I think the moves based on sex acts have no place in the teaching of dance is that, IMHO, they're not really dancing.

[Andy McGregor]

Nope (sorry :flower: ). My feelings are roughly "I would prefer such moves weren't taught in Modern Jive but I wouldn't go so far as to ban them". While I don't see them as perverted, I don't like seeing them on the dance floor, so I really don't want to say they're OK, either.:yeah:

[Chef]

I have been to three of Mikeys "strictly sinful" classes at weekenders so I feel that I have been fair to him in terms of my exposure to his lessons. I have also met Mikey at dance events and found him a reasonable chap and quite personalble. I have not yet seen him do any of his "strictly sinful" stuff on a social dancefloor

I know many people that really like his lessons. I just don't get it myself. I find his stuff in these lessons trivial in that they did not extend the dance skills that I had at the time and provided me with nothing that I could realistically use on a social dance floor with a partner.

I find them to be a bit like a saucy seaside postcard. Good for a quick giggle as they nudge, nudge, wink, wink at the edges of decent social behaviour but then to toss aside quickly once the initial giggle subsides.

Since his classes are usually in the morning session of a weekender I know that I can set the alarm clock that bit later and not be missing anything that I would value.

[LMC]

What DavidF said :yeah:

[Magic Hans]

At last, a balance poll with reasonable choices, and no hidden agenda!!

Thank you!!

[Each to their own, and not for me!! [ .... unless I find a very very very good friend!!!]

[Andybroom]

. The reason I don't think these moves should be taught is because they give pervs a licence to do them in freestyle - and that really happens as bigdjiver has said.


I don't know about your "neck of the woods" but I have to say I've never seen (or been told about) that happening in my area. Yes, once in a while a guy turns up who does things he shouldn't do. Usually he doesn't last long. The women soon see he doesn't get any dances.

Ordinary people (as opposed to perverts) do, however, sometimes dance "dirty" moves during freestyle.

In fact moves which you would probably class as dirty exist in most forms of partner dance even in ballroom. Where they are actually more commonly danced than in Modern Jive (I seem to recall several of the routines in the last Strictly Come Dancing included moves of that sort broadcast live on prime time national TV - presumably even the BBC dosn't agree with you).



And the second reason I think the moves based on sex acts have no place in the teaching of dance is that, IMHO, they're not really dancing.

Which is just your opinion. Which you are entitled to, but you are not entitled to force it on anyone else.

As I said in the other thread on this, you don't have to learn that kind of move or dance it if you don't want to. But a lot of people do want to learn them (500 attending a dance class is hardly a small number!) and you have no right to dictate to them.

Andy

[ducasi]

Nope (sorry :flower: ). My feelings are roughly "I would prefer such moves weren't taught in Modern Jive but I wouldn't go so far as to ban them". While I don't see them as perverted, I don't like seeing them on the dance floor, so I really don't want to say they're OK, either.
But the poll is referring only to the workshops – not the moves.

I don't think that anyone who has any sense would see these moves as acceptable on a social dance-floor with anyone other than a very, very close friend. (And even then, I'd probably agree with Trampy, that they'd be distasteful.)

[Andy McGregor]

Ordinary people (as opposed to perverts) do, however, sometimes dance "dirty" moves during freestyle.There's a world of difference between dirty looking and dirty. A face-to-face body ripple that doesn't touch is dirty looking but harmless, so it the, non-touching, 'slut' move that I stole from Lydia :wink: , spinning someone using their butt crack as the hand-hold is just plain dirty in my book. Is there anyone on the forum that thinks otherwise?

[El Salsero Gringo]

There's a world of difference between dirty looking and dirty. A face-to-face body ripple that doesn't touch is dirty looking but harmless, so it the, non-touching, 'slut' move that I stole from Lydia :wink: , spinning someone using their butt crack as the hand-hold is just plain dirty in my book. Is there anyone on the forum that thinks otherwise?Dirty can be great, as long as it's not tasteless. I'd have to have seen the move to have an opinion as to whether it was tasteless.

Oh, and, er, thanks, Chris!

[David Franklin]

But the poll is referring only to the workshops – not the moves.Sorry, but I think you're arguing for the sake of it here - "I would prefer such moves weren't taught" is clearly relevant to the workshops as well as the moves.



Bluntly, I think this poll is worded badly. I ended up voting "Perverted and should be banned" as the "best" option to register my views. Only I don't actually think the workshops should be banned. And in fact no-one on this thread has supported banning. Yet that is the outcome the poll shows.

If this seems illogical, something I notice repeatedly is that faced with the two poll options 'There's nothing wrong with "X"' and 'Those who do "X" are evil and should be shunned' people who moderately disapprove of "X" feel they are being manipulated towards the first option, and vote for the second, even if they would never actually go that far in real life. The fact that "it's only a poll, so nothing will actually happen if I choose an extreme option" probably has an influence as well.

[ducasi]

Sorry, but I think you're arguing for the sake of it here - "I would prefer such moves weren't taught" is clearly relevant to the workshops as well as the moves. Sorry David, you've got a point there, though others have talked more about the moves, rather than the workshops.

[META]

Bluntly, I think this poll is worded badly. ...
Well the options were based on Andy's call for a ban, and DC and others' "live and let live" pleas. I thought of putting in a greater spectrum of views, but then it can be harder to decide which to vote for.

I wanted a clear contrast between the two main options so there's no doubt in the result, but if anyone else is unsure where to put their vote, I'd recommend the "whatever" option. :)

[WittyBird]

Is it just me or is anyone else bored with is subject? :mad:

[TheTramp]

Is it just me or is anyone else bored with is subject? :mad:

Nope.

I was bored with it some time ago. Maybe weeks. Now it's more a 'losing the will to live' level. It's a bit like a road accident though. You don't really want to look, but you just can't avoid it....

My take is that I don't like them. But it's not my place to tell other consenting adults what they should and shouldn't like or do. Unless specifically asked for an opinion by someone.

[Andybroom]

There's a world of difference between dirty looking and dirty. A face-to-face body ripple that doesn't touch is dirty looking but harmless, so it the, non-touching, 'slut' move that I stole from Lydia :wink:


Well, OK, but you haven't (I don't believe) made that point previously - you have simply condemmned all "dirty" moves.





, spinning someone using their butt crack as the hand-hold is just plain dirty in my book. Is there anyone on the forum that thinks otherwise?

I would have said it was more painful than anything else.

I have to say that I have little problem with anything that consenting adults wish to do between themselves as a general principle.

However, from a purely dance point of view, trying to lead a spin from that position would be nearly impossible so (if that was what this guy actually taught) I would question his ability as any kind of teacher. I say that because the bum crack is down the line of the centre of mass of the body and you need to lead spins from off the centre line so that the follow can actually feel that you want her to turn.

I was actually assuming that whoever posted that had simply got it wrong - a much more likely place to lead such a spin from would be the hip (something I do actually do).

Personally I would be unlikely in the extreme to stick my hand into anyone's bum crack as part of a dance move, but I wouldn't stop others if they want to (and if both of them are happy with it).

Andy

[LMC]

Now it's more a 'losing the will to live' level. It's a bit like a road accident though. You don't really want to look, but you just can't avoid it....
:yeah:

[Lee]

Is it just me or is anyone else bored with is subject? :mad:

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

[DangerousCurves]

Much to the undoubted relief of all (myself included) , I have no intention of re-arguing any points made on another thread....

However, I just want to clear up one point before it passes into dance mythology... Mikey has never taught a move which involves anyone placing their hand in anyone else's bum crack.

I don't know where BigJiver's perv claimed he learnt the move, but if he said it was a Mikey class, he was lying.

A perv hiding behind an excuse when challenged.... hmmm, there's a first :whistle:

[Lee]

OK, let's get a clear answer to this question. What do we think of workshops where moves that may resemble sexual behaviour are taught?

Hope I've got a set of options in this poll which will keep everyone happy...

They are done in a fun manner and you have to go as a fxied couple, whether the leader performs those moves later with someone else is a better question.

He always get a good turnout at the weekenders and i think he teacher very well.

Lee

[the boss]

I have been to several events where mikey was teaching I.E. camber and Southport, I found that his class was fun and well planed, I found him to be professional in his manner and presentation and a little joke for every part of the class. Never once did he use the same joke.
You can have a good teacher but seldom do you find a real professional.
I first saw mikey at camber and laughed through the whole class with my girlfriend, we had a great time.
So he has my vote
And don’t forget we are all over 18 and are supposed to be adult about things like this, you can walk away if it’s not for you.
:cheers: Mikey.

[Donna]

Nope (sorry :flower: ). My feelings are roughly "I would prefer such moves weren't taught in Modern Jive but I wouldn't go so far as to ban them". While I don't see them as perverted, I don't like seeing them on the dance floor, so I really don't want to say they're OK, either.

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: Some look ok on the dance floor depending on the music. If the music is slow and sexy, then the dance should look sexy too and thats where these classes come in handy. I have seen some of Mikeys workshops and I think some of the moves are over the top and should be BANNED

[Donna]

Much to the undoubted relief of all (myself included) , I have no intention of re-arguing any points made on another thread....

However, I just want to clear up one point before it passes into dance mythology... Mikey has never taught a move which involves anyone placing their hand in anyone else's bum crack.

I don't know where BigJiver's perv claimed he learnt the move, but if he said it was a Mikey class, he was lying.

A perv hiding behind an excuse when challenged.... hmmm, there's a first :whistle:

Ok. Check out the Camber 2005 video. He doesn't place his hand on his demonstraters bum crack. He places in on the front bit instead. Will send you a copy if you want??

[TheTramp]

Will send you a copy if you want??

Since Dangerous Curves and Mikey share the same house, I think that it's quite likely that she's got access to a copy of said video of workshop.

Not so sure that you should be advertising sending out copies of videos on the same forum that the person who makes the videos reads btw :whistle:

[Donna]

Since Dangerous Curves and Mikey share the same house, I think that it's quite likely that she's got access to a copy of said video of workshop.

Not so sure that you should be advertising sending out copies of videos on the same forum that the person who makes the videos reads btw :whistle:

well in all honesty, I wasn't going to send the tape out at all but was just saying that to say I have proof. :flower:

[Dude]

Ok. Check out the Camber 2005 video. He doesn't place his hand on his demonstraters bum crack. He places in on the front bit instead. Will send you a copy if you want??


I was there for that class personally with my consenting partner:nice: Funnily enough it was a move taught in a "fixed partner" class which was clearly advertised by the organisor too.
The move your refering to if you care to watch the video once more, the hand was placed on the abdomen and drawn back, touching, nothing, but certianly looking as if it did.. it was taught as always with great humour and enjoyed by everyone for that reason. Plus I might add before we even got to the class I cannot even begin to recall the amount of people who were talking about it and enthusiastic about having some fun !
So you don't like the class, thats fine, you don't do it, simple, end off.. whats the big deal:what: There are several hundred people at EVERY class Mikey has ever done that enjoy what and how he teaches, so carry on Mikey I say..:cheers:

I love the weekenders and do quite a few classes, and some are serious and intense, some are boring etc etc.. but I and many other find a class with humour and fun a breath of fresh air.. :clap:

[Jenni]

I have no objections to workshops being run for people who want to learn these sorts of moves - they are not for me which is why I have never attended any of them.

What I do object to is when these workshops are taught at weekenders - some (in all fairness in the minority) think that any partner is fair game to try these moves out on - and some I'm sure only do it for their own gratification.

Apologises if this has already been said on another thread but I can't be bothered to trawl through to see :flower:

[DangerousCurves]

Will send you a copy if you want??

Hi Donna, and thanks for the offer - but as Trampy points out, I have one already and was at the class in question too.

I was going to point out that the move you mention is one where you "see" more than the dancer "does" - but Dude has beaten me to it. :flower:

If you've only ever seen the classes on video, why not take a look at the actual classes themselves sometime if you are at a weekender - a lot of people turn up to just watch and laugh at the humour. In the context of the class the moves may seem less extreme and more "fun-orientated" than a simple dance through on a video does - thats always a bit more clinical, I think.

In any event, I respect your view - as I've said all along different people like different things. If a class is not for you - thats fine... I personally never go to classes with too much spinning! I just say let responsible adults vote with their feet.

[fletch]

I think we should concentrate on the 'now' as opposed to 'then'

After Southport last June it was pointed out that some men had been doing inappropriate moves and blaming Mikey's classes, some of us will remember the aftermath that followed.:eek:

Since then Mikey has been very careful (as a professional) to adjust his teaching methods to suit the 'few moaners' my opinion only!! he may feel differently about that comment.

The class I did at Bognor, for me was very disappointing, and you could tell he was really stressing not to do it in free style, etc., if you didn't know your partner, (which is correct) but I couldn't help thinking this isn't the same man that did that class I attended in October 2004.

He dose seem to try to please the 'forum moaners' if you speak to people that dance but don't come on the forum are shocked and can't seem to understand what the problem is, as I have voiced before, tell me why so many people attend his classes? I tell you why........ cos they are fun...........he makes you laugh..........and they by most are taken in the spirit intended.......light hart.......

I dance very sexy moves with a lot of men, however there are some men I wouldn't because i'm not comfortable with them, likewise I am very suggestive and I encourage these moves and i'm sure there are men that feel uncomfortable dancing with me.......You know that's life.:what:

My suggestion is Mikey you be yourself, its work for years, people buy people that's why your classes are so popular :worthy: you can't please all off the people all of the time.:na:

It takes all sorts, live and let live:hug:

And for any ladies out there who have inappropriate moves done on them and don't feel strong enough to handle it themselves tell someone.:flower:

[clevedonboy]

The Boss post count 1
Dude post count 1

not that I'm a cynic or anything

I'm kind of ambivalent about this - sure between consenting folks it's harmless (and I've been to one of Mikey's classes) but it does say something about MJ to "observers" that may be problematical further down the line, so on balance I'd rather that it didn't happen in quite such an overt way - Blues and Lindy have there "naughty" side but teachers don't market classes on that basis.

[David Bailey]

The Boss post count 1
Dude post count 1

not that I'm a cynic or anything.
Yeah, I noticed that too... :whistle:

[TheTramp]

Yeah, I noticed that too... :whistle:

Me three. Although, while 'Dude' did join today, the boss has been hanging around since October without posting.

But I can't remember ever having seen his name on the 'who's on' list before....

[David Franklin]

Me three. Although, while 'Dude' did join today, the boss has been hanging around since October without posting.Me four. It does seems likely Dude joined solely to post in support of Mikey (not that there is anything wrong with that), but as you say, 'the boss' has a longer history. Neither exactly inspires confidence, however.

[Lee]

Me four. It does seems likely Dude joined solely to post in support of Mikey (not that there is anything wrong with that), but as you say, 'the boss' has a longer history. Neither exactly inspires confidence, however.

What are you saying, the Boss IS Mikey or the Dude?

[Donna]

What are you saying, the Boss IS Mikey or the Dude?

Me thinks so!!!!

[WittyBird]

This is just a re run of you all having a go at Fletch but using other people :eek:

Go get a life :(

[Donna]

I agree that Mikeys classes are better for fixed partners anyway. Unless of course people don't mind doing that sort of thing with people they don't really know but then that is up to them.

[David Franklin]

What are you saying, the Boss IS Mikey or the Dude?No I'm not. As much as anything I'm saying that both names have a certain 'disposable' feel that I see people use when they're doing posting 'drive-bys'. And that neither of them has a forum history that lets me judge where they are coming from. But I freely admit it's just a feeling.

In general, I would somewhat frown on people whose only interest in coming here is to post about Mikey, whether to bury him or praise him. But in practice it's very difficult to tell whether people are lurkers who only post about something they feel strongly about - I certainly do that on some forums. But I think people will always be taken more seriously if they have a history of more general contributions.

[HITMAN]

Since Dangerous Curves and Mikey share the same house, I think that it's quite likely that she's got access to a copy of said video of workshop.

Not so sure that you should be advertising sending out copies of videos on the same forum that the person who makes the videos reads btw :whistle:


Thanks Trampy I am reading this thread with interest and as for you Donna see me after the Blackpool Comp and I'll deal with you then!.:rofl:

Having filmed Mikey doing his Strictly Sinfull classes for the last couple of years both in the workshop and filming for the Dvd all I can say is 500 + people seem to me to be enjoying themselves laughing, happy and having fun.

Last year at Camber Mikey took the very last class which sometimes can be poorly attended due to tiredness and fatigue from the weekend etc, however the class was full with dancers looking to end the weekend on a high. I decided to stop Mikey from talking through the moves on camera and just dance it through to music for the Dvd, because in my opinion nobody should be using that workshop to learn any of the moves on the social dancefloor, it's purely fun to be had on the day with your fixed partner.

[Lee]

I'm saying that both names have a certain 'disposable' feel that I see people use when they're doing posting 'drive-bys'. And that neither of them has a forum history that lets me judge where they are coming from.

But in practice it's very difficult to tell whether people are lurkers who only post about something they feel strongly about - I certainly do that on some forums. But I think people will always be taken more seriously if they have a history of more general contributions.

Fair point, i only wanted to use this forum for info, but quickly got drawn in :rolleyes:

Lets hope over the next few weeks these users continue to make comments, to help you over get your 'feeling'.

We don't want another 'Fletch' thread again.

Lee

[fletch]

In general, I would somewhat frown on people whose only interest in coming here is to post about Mikey, .

Only time will tell if they ARE real:whistle:

[TheTramp]

Only time will tell if they ARE real:whistle:

Actually. Maybe we should pray that they're not real at all.

Else, they might turn out to be like Fletch!! :rolleyes: :hug:

[WittyBird]

Only time will tell if they ARE real:whistle:
:worthy: :really:

[CJ]

Only time will tell if they ARE real:whistle:

I've assumed yours were real, Fletch. I didn't realise that was up for question!!:confused:

They ARE real, aren't they?!?:devil:

[fletch]

I've assumed yours were real, Fletch. I didn't realise that was up for question!!:confused:

They ARE real, aren't they?!?:devil:
All bought and paid for:wink:
:rofl:

[fletch]

Actually. Maybe we should pray that they're not real at all.

Else, they might turn out to be like Fletch!! :rolleyes: :hug:

And your point is:mad:

I'll get you at playtime:rofl:
:flower:

[TheTramp]

I'll get you at playtime:rofl:
:flower:
Promise, promises.... :rolleyes:

[Donna]

[QUOTE=HITMAN]Thanks Trampy I am reading this thread with interest and as for you Donna see me after the Blackpool Comp and I'll deal with you then!.:rofl:


I wasn't...er I...I mean er...I can explain!! Damn!:o

Nah I wouldn't have sent it off. Of course I would have asked her to contact you if she really wanted a copy! :flower: :flower:

[ducasi]

Me three. Although, while 'Dude' did join today, the boss has been hanging around since October without posting.

But I can't remember ever having seen his name on the 'who's on' list before....
I noticed it too, but didn't read anything bad into it... Maybe I'm just being naive...

My own thoughts on this matter...

I'm a "live and let live" kind of guy... If that's what people want, then good luck to them. Though I'd like to see what all the fuss was about – maybe someone I know local has a DVD I could take a look at...

However, if there really are a significant minority of idiots who think they can try dodgy moves on random strangers, then that's a real problem.

Not sure what the answer is...

(Looks like I'm coming to David Franklin, et al's point of view... I started this poll with an open mind to see what people really thought.)

[Sinner]

I think we should concentrate on the 'now' as opposed to 'then' .....Mikey has been very careful (as a professional) to adjust his teaching methods to suit the 'few moaners' my opinion only!! he may feel differently about that comment.:
I agree Fletch, i think i have become more aware and perhaps for some it is taking the fun out of what i did initially.. :sad:


The class I did at Bognor, for me was very disappointing, and you could tell he was really stressing not to do it in free style, etc., if you didn't know your partner, (which is correct) but I couldn't help thinking this isn't the same man that did that class I attended in October 2004..:
I did take note of what stewart38 said as well regards the class, yes i know you cannot please all of the people all of the time, but none of the classes i taught at bognor were in any way meant to be like a Strictly Sinful, hence why perhaps some who were expecting naughty moves were disappointed.. But roll on camber, i have a real treat for you all, I promise...:wink: and will no doubt give my number one fan and promoter Mr McGregor plenty to winge about..:rofl:



My suggestion is Mikey you be yourself, its work for years, people buy people that's why your classes are so popular :worthy: you can't please all off the people all of the time.:na: :

Thanks hun, i need to hear the honest comments from people like you who come to the classes , so i can make sure i am in touch with what people want..:flower:



And for any ladies out there who have inappropriate moves done on them and don't feel strong enough to handle it themselves tell someone.:flower:

I would invite any lady who feels their space was inappropiately invaded to come and tell me about it, i would gladly have a quiet word and set any gentlemen (if they can be so called) straight about dance etiquette...:angry:

lastly can i say thankyou for the support from some of the Forum members, not just those who may praise my classes etc, but also for those who have given me positive rep, and can see some agendas for what they are, personal and not constructive.. thankyou..:cheers:

[Andy McGregor]

Is it just me or is anyone else bored with is subject? :mad::yeah:

I'm bored with this too. In the recent flurry of posts I have only been responding rather than initiating debate. If someone says that classes that teach moves of an overtly sexual nature I will chime in to say why I think they are wrong. But I think I'd made my view clear ages ago and don't feel the need to repeat myself without reason. So, the message is - I'll stop disagreeing with the people who disagree with me so long as they stop disagreeing :confused:

[El Salsero Gringo]

some of the moves are over the top and should be BANNEDAny sensible suggestions as to how you go about banning a dance move?

"Stop! Stop! Will you stop that! Stop it! Now, look! No one is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle! Do you understand? Even, and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say Jehova!"

[TheTramp]

Even, and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say Jehova!

Are there any women present?? :rolleyes:

[LMC]

Tries to resist...

Fails.

Jehovah

ECG, you're not the Messiah, you're a very naughty boy...

[CJ]

He's not a sheep.

He's an individual.

(*gets quote wrong, as ever):rolleyes:

[David Bailey]

Only time will tell if they ARE real:whistle:
What, you're real? :eek:

[CJ]

What, you're real? :eek:

She is, now!!:wink:

All bought and paid for!!:rofl: :rofl:

[LMC]

(*gets quote wrong, as ever):rolleyes:
Burn him!

[Andy McGregor]

All bought and paid for:wink:
:rofl:And both barrels are fully loaded :what:

On the subject of first posts, I'm always suspicious of people who make their first post one which is part of a heated debate - or lukewarm debate like this one. Most people who go on to become Forum regulars have a sort of running-in phase where they introduce themselves so we can get used to their ways. These two posters may be real people and, as Fletch says, time will tell. I don't jump to those conclusions so quickly any more as I was wrong about the reality of Fletch* - Fletch has turned out to be a bit more real than most of us can handle :sick:

*In fact, an imaginary Fletch couldn't be as scary as the real thing :eek:

[Lee]

lastly can i say thankyou for the support from some of the Forum members, not just those who may praise my classes etc, but also for those who have given me positive rep, and can see some agendas for what they are, personal and not constructive.. thankyou..:cheers:

I'll be adding Sinner to my Buddylist.. :whistle:

[fletch]

[QUOTE=Sinner]:

But roll on camber, i have a real treat for you.

[QUOTE]

1 2 1 I hope :wink:

or are you to scared as well:whistle:

:worthy:

[Andy McGregor]

or are you to scared as well:whistle:

:worthy:Fletch might be scary, but I'm not scared. I know she has a soft side too :hug:

[ChrisA]

However, if there really are a significant minority of idiots who think they can try dodgy moves on random strangers, then that's a real problem.

There are. But not only are they doing dodgy moves, they are doing perfectly normal moves in a dodgy way.

And they were doing this before they ever went to one of Mikey's classes.

And there are those doing ordinary moves pervily that have never been to Mikey's classes.



Not sure what the answer is...

WHY NOT, *** ?????

It's perfectly simple. It needs to be reported, and the organisers need to ban them.

I'm sorry to be doing a McGregor with this topic, ie going on and on about it, but I just can't understand why this is all so difficult to grasp.

I'll type this real slow for those who still haven't got it...

a) banning Mikey's trade-mark moves and/or classes (or Adam's upcoming one, for that matter - I don't want this to be personal about Mikey) will not solve the problem of pervs

b) banning pervs from venues when they misbehave (whether it's with a spit-roast, a bum-crack spin or a basket) will solve the problem, so there's no need to spoil things for the perfectly normal non-pervs that have some fun with fixed partners in those classes.

[fletch]

Fletch might be scary, but I'm not scared. I know she has a soft side too :hug:

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh don't let everyone know:D

[WittyBird]

Coffee and Pro Plus anyone?

[Lee]

Coffee and Pro Plus anyone?

I was just thinking that, as i slump towards my keyboard. :rolleyes:

Lee

[LMC]

They're not even arguing, they're just contradicting each other.

Let's just carry on with the MP hijacks, it's sillytime on Friday :devil:

[fletch]

Coffee and Pro Plus anyone?
Got anything stronger:D

[WittyBird]

Got anything stronger:D

*Gonna change my title to 'Official ticket tout and dealer' *

Yes babe what do you want? :rofl:
Got a good line in duracel for relief or Ibuprofen for pain :wink:

[ducasi]

It's perfectly simple. It needs to be reported, and the organisers need to ban them.

I'm sorry to be doing a McGregor with this topic, ie going on and on about it, but I just can't understand why this is all so difficult to grasp.

I'll type this real slow for those who still haven't got it...

a) banning Mikey's trade-mark moves and/or classes (or Adam's upcoming one, for that matter - I don't want this to be personal about Mikey) will not solve the problem of pervs

b) banning pervs from venues when they misbehave (whether it's with a spit-roast, a bum-crack spin or a basket) will solve the problem, so there's no need to spoil things for the perfectly normal non-pervs that have some fun with fixed partners in those classes. If it's so simple, why is it still a problem?

Why don't people report? Why don't organisers ban?

And if they do, why is it still a problem?

Maybe because this isn't the solution. It's worth doing, but I don't think the problem will go away. Which is why I said I don't know what the solution is.

[fletch]

*Gonna change my title to 'Official ticket tout and dealer' *



oh good that meens I can keep a low profil:wink:
:rofl:

[WittyBird]

oh good that means I can keep a low profile :wink:
:rofl:

You and Low profile just dont go together :D

[fletch]

You and Low profile just dont go together :D
I can try:wink:
:rofl:

[El Salsero Gringo]

If it's so simple, why is it still a problem?

Why don't people report? Why don't organisers ban?

And if they do, why is it still a problem?

Maybe because this isn't the solution. It's worth doing, but I don't think the problem will go away. Which is why I said I don't know what the solution is.Um, sorry to ask such heretic questions, but *is* it still a problem? And what is *it*, anyway?

[ChrisA]

If it's so simple, why is it still a problem?

Why don't people report? Why don't organisers ban?

And if they do, why is it still a problem?

Good questions.

People don't report, because they don't have the confidence to go with their gut instinct about what's going on. They're mostly nice people that don't want to make a scene, and are often new enough to the scene to give the pervs the benefit of the doubt. By the time they've been around for long enough to spot the warning signs, the pervs are moving on to fresh meat, and/or the girls in question just avoid them.

Organisers don't ban them because

a) they don't get enough reports,

b) they don't want to make a scene either (it's always difficult to confront someone who will deny their wrongdoing) and

c) they don't want to lose the revenue, and aren't farsighted enough to realise they lose more revenue because the newbies don't come back when they get perved on.

I said it was simple, not that it was easy.

However, going off on a tangent and banning something that has nothing to do with the real problem is just stupid.

[David Franklin]

People don't report, because they don't have the confidence to go with their gut instinct about what's going on. They're mostly nice people that don't want to make a scene, and are often new enough to the scene to give the pervs the benefit of the doubt. By the time they've been around for long enough to spot the warning signs, the pervs are moving on to fresh meat, and/or the girls in question just avoid them.

~snip~ However, going off on a tangent and banning something that has nothing to do with the real problem is just stupid.But if the standard environment includes lots of risque moves, isn't it going to make it difficult for beginners and organisers alike to recognize when someone is actually leading inappropriate moves, as opposed to doing a move that just looks inappropriate?

Yeah - the overall effect is probably minor. But I think it is there.

[ChrisA]

But if the standard environment includes lots of risque moves, isn't it going to make it difficult for beginners and organisers alike to recognize when someone is actually leading inappropriate moves, as opposed to doing a move that just looks inappropriate?

I don't think the standard environment ever will include lots of them though. And I totally agree that it shouldn't. As I've said, I don't think even the slow-comb should be a beginners move.

Further, I don't think what the move looks like is relevant. It's whether it's consensual that is the issue.

One can argue from the extreme edges of the envelope if one wants (for instance, there are those to whom a perfectly normal basket or first move, danced totally non-pervily, feels quite invasive), but I don't think it's helpful.

Usually, it's not the beginners' judgement as to what creeps them out that is lacking, it's their confidence in doing something about it. Over seven years of taxiing, I've had perhaps three or four incidents a year of which I've been personally aware, where I've observed something dodgy going on (you can tell from the expression on the girl's face when something's grossing her out), and danced with the girl immediately afterwards, talked with her, encouraged her not to put up with anything that creeps her out....

Trust me - they know what pervy behaviour is.

[Sinner]

1 2 1 I hope :wink:

or are you to scared as well:whistle:

:worthy:

Babe, i will promise you better than 1 2 1 , just you wait and see..:wink: But apart from that the class will be different..:whistle:

Moi ? scared... bring it on girl.. :yum:

[bigdjiver]

...

However, I just want to clear up one point before it passes into dance mythology... Mikey has never taught a move which involves anyone placing their hand in anyone else's bum crack.

I don't know where BigJiver's perv claimed he learnt the move, ...
allegedly "at a weekender", no names mentioned.

and for Andybroom: it was definitely the "bum crack".

[tsh]

The poll options are rather biased... Where's the option for 'fun, and well taught' - things which are sadly lacking from the majority of the classes I've been to. I'm not going to bother to vote, since I wouldn't want to give the results any hint of credibility.

I take it that all the moaners on this thread have never ventured into a nightclub. You might find it a bit traumatic!

Maybe a weekender organiser would find a teacher for a shag class sometime, for a bit of variety? They could bill it as 'swing' to avoid scaring off too many people.

Can we please get back to discussing something important, like wether the in and out should be done with the hands going clockwide or anti-clockwise on the step-in???

Sean

[Minnie M]

.........There are several hundred people at EVERY class Mikey has ever done that enjoy what and how he teaches, so carry on Mikey I say..:cheers:

Love him or loathe him - Mikey is a very good dance teacher :worthy: and is well respected for this by some of the top organisers

ALL (and there were many) the private classes I booked for him at the JiveTime events were extremely well received and none of the moves taught were risque :yeah:

[ChrisA]

I take it that all the moaners on this thread have never ventured into a nightclub. You might find it a bit traumatic!

:rofl:

Quite so.

Inappropriate behaviour in the clubs is met with the perpetrator just getting chucked out by the bouncers. If he's lucky, just with bruises.

I think the MJ world has something to learn from that.

[Dreadful Scathe]

They're not even arguing, they're just contradicting each other.


Contradiction is a form of argument!

[El Salsero Gringo]

Contradiction is a form of argument!Oh no it isn't!



(I could be arguing in my spare time...)

[ChrisA]

(I could be arguing in my spare time...)

I sure as hell hope you are.

This has gone on for a lot more than 5 minutes...

[TheTramp]

Oh god. Not more Pythonisms!! :whistle:

[WittyBird]

Oh god. Not more Pythonisms!! :whistle:

Well spotted Sherlock :rolleyes:

[El Salsero Gringo]

Oh god. Not more Pythonisms!! :whistle:Now, about those being-hit-over-the-head lessons....

[LMC]

Oh god. Not more Pythonisms!! :whistle:
Just a road accident on the other carriageway.

And more fun than the yawn-inducing pantomime script that this thread is otherwise becoming.

An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. (It) is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.

[fletch]

I take it that all the moaners on this thread have never ventured into a nightclub. You might find it a bit traumatic!


Sean

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

[fletch]

[QUOTE=Sinner]:

But roll on camber, i have a real treat for you.

[QUOTE]

1 2 1 I hope :wink:

or are you to scared as well:whistle:

:worthy:

Sinner, no reply, you disappoint me:sad:

And with all that reputaion I thought at least YOU would have the Bottle, well you know what they say about reputaions:whistle:

:hug:

[Sinner]

[QUOTE=fletch]

Sinner, no reply, you disappoint me:sad:

And with all that reputaion I thought at least YOU would have the Bottle, well you know what they say about reputaions:whistle:
:hug:


I did reply hun, last message on page 4... :wink:

[ducasi]

The poll options are rather biased... Where's the option for 'fun, and well taught' - things which are sadly lacking from the majority of the classes I've been to. I'm not going to bother to vote, since I wouldn't want to give the results any hint of credibility. After I posted the poll I thought I should maybe have put a more positive option for people who particularly enjoyed Mikey's style, but I figured that for these people the "OK" option would still cover their thoughts.

So the poll options were not deliberately biased. I was asking an honest question, with as little personal agenda as I could manage (I don't know any of the people at the heart of this argument, and I've never seen any of the workshops, they don't sound like my kind of thing, but I am always sceptical of calls for bans.)

All that said, based on the "500 people" quotes, I expected a majority of people would vote on the "OK" side. I wasn't wrong.

I wonder if those calling far a ban – always a pointless move in my mind – will change their views accordingly.

I'm still unsure of how I feel about these workshops. I'd like to see what the fuss was about, but I don't see myself wanting to do them.

One question this thread has brought up is how big is the "perv" problem? And what, if anything, needs to be done about it. I know this has been discussed at some length on the forum before though, so I've going to leave his question for someone else to pick up.

I would suggest though that a poll to find out the forum's views on the size of the problem might be useful – with different options for the men and women.

I don't think I need say any more on this general topic. (In other words, yup, I'm as bored of it as the rest of you. :wink:)

[fletch]

[QUOTE=fletch]


I did reply hun, last message on page 4... :wink:

How did that get back there:blush: its a wonder I follow any of these threads:D

[WittyBird]

its a wonder I follow any of these threads:D
:yeah: you mean you do read them ? Oh well had me fooled :rofl:

[fletch]

:yeah: you mean you do read them ? Oh well had me fooled :rofl:
I just read the first few lines and make the rest up:rofl:

[fletch]

Babe, i will promise you better than 1 2 1 , just you wait and see..:wink: But apart from that the class will be different..:whistle:

Moi ? scared... bring it on girl.. :yum:

ooooooooooo now i'm scared,:eek: is it true what they say:whistle: :wink:

Are they of wisdom:confused:

:rofl:

[Sinner]

is it true what they say:whistle: :wink:
Are they of wisdom:confused:
:rofl:

..answer... is the Pope catholic..:wink:

[WittyBird]

..answer... is the Pope catholic..:wink:

Don't change the subject, it was just getting interesting :wink:

[Sinner]

Don't change the subject, it was just getting interesting :wink:


You and Fletch are just pure filth.. and I am merely trying to keep up with it all..:innocent:

[Andybroom]

allegedly "at a weekender", no names mentioned.

and for Andybroom: it was definitely the "bum crack".

If you say so.

However (and whatever the person concerned allegedly said to you) there seem to be two people who attended the same class posting here saying he didn't teach that, plus my surmise that it's an unlikely move for someone to teach for perfectly good dancing reasons.

Sooo ... it seems to me (on balance of probabilties) pretty unlikely that Mikey ever taught such a move.

If you did actually see someone attempting to do this and they did tell you it was a move that they'd been taught at Mikey's class then either (a) They were telling you porky pies to get rid of you or (b) They'd got hold of the wrong end of the -er- stick at the class.

Either way, you can't really blame the teacher.

Andy

[fletch]

Either way, you can't really blame the teacher.

Andy
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

[fletch]

You and Fletch are just pure filth.. and I am merely trying to keep up with it all..:innocent:

What US:eek: neaver:innocent:

Chance would be a fine thing:tears:

[WittyBird]

You and Fletch are just pure filth.. and I am merely trying to keep up with it all..:innocent:
Pot, Kettle & Black springs to mind :rolleyes:

[Sinner]

Pot, Kettle & Black springs to mind :rolleyes:

You can explain that on the dance floor tonight.. :wink:

[WittyBird]

You can explain that on the dance floor tonight.. :wink:
Happily sweetie, are you coming to Hammersmith then? If so can I have a dance or 2:waycool:

[Sinner]

Happily sweetie, are you coming to Hammersmith then? If so can I have a dance or 2:waycool:

I am indeed... will see you there:grin:

[WittyBird]

I am indeed... will see you there:grin:
Oh yes.

[bigdjiver]

If you say so.

However (and whatever the person concerned allegedly said to you) there seem to be two people who attended the same class posting here saying he didn't teach that, plus my surmise that it's an unlikely move for someone to teach for perfectly good dancing reasons.Nobody said anything to me, I was just standing close by.

No names were mentioned. I did not intend to have my post associated with Mikey, or anybody else. My post was a general refutation of the argument that nobody would use such a move, allegedly taught at a weekender, in a normal class situation.

I have been taught several moves in classes that seem to have no good dancing reason behind them.


Sooo ... it seems to me (on balance of probabilties) pretty unlikely that Mikey ever taught such a move.


If you did actually see someone attempting to do this and they did tell you it was a move that they'd been taught at Mikey's class then either (a) They were telling you porky pies to get rid of you or (b) They'd got hold of the wrong end of the -er- stick at the class.

Either way, you can't really blame the teacher.

AndyI did not blame the teacher. It is only you dragging Mikey's name into this incident. There was another bystander that had been at the same weekender, and they said nothing at all. I doubt that the move was an invention. Since there is so much interest I will investigate the name of the teacher and the weekender at the next opportunity.

[Andybroom]

Nobody said anything to me, I was just standing close by.

No names were mentioned. I did not intend to have my post associated with Mikey, or anybody else.



OK, well, fair enough. If it's other's that have made an assumption not you I take that part of my post back. However, I get the impression that the only weekender dirty dancing classes have been taught by Mikey so intentionally or not you have effectively blamed him.



My post was a general refutation of the argument that nobody would use such a move, allegedly taught at a weekender, in a normal class situation.

I have been taught several moves in classes that seem to have no good dancing reason behind them.


Frankly I'm extremely surprised at that. But (rights and wrongs of this particular "bum crack" move aside) - and you probably won't like this - you and one or two others do seem to be on a crusade to stop dance moves that an awful lot of people see as harmless fun for grown-ups.

OK, there is an occasional problem with an occasional guy who comes onto the dancing scene and uses it as an excuse for things that he shouldn't do. But (and I've been dancing for a very long time now) it doesn't happen that often and, when it does, the guy's coincerned don't usually last very long before the girls ostracise them. And (I assume) that the girls enjoy dancing enough with normal guys to be prepared to take the risk (such as it is) of an unpleasant experience once in a blue moon.

And I certainly don't believe that the moves Modern Jive generally classes as "dirty" are encouraging such guy's - there's no evidence at all to suggest that. Again "bum crack" move aside - if it actually was taught - all the moves I've ever seen taught as "dirty" in modern jive would, in other social dance scenes be regarded as fairly normal (Salsa, Merengue, Tango even ballroom).

What you personally do is entirely up to you, but you really need to stop trying to dictate to the rest of us.



It is only you dragging Mikey's name into this incident.


No it wasn't. I accept that it might not have been you personally but I don't know the guy.



There was another bystander that had been at the same weekender, and they said nothing at all.


So maybe they thought you were making a fuss over nothing?



I doubt that the move was an invention. Since there is so much interest I will investigate the name of the teacher and the weekender at the next opportunity.

Well, that would be interesting to know.

Andy

[Dreadful Scathe]

What you personally do is entirely up to you, but you really need to stop trying to dictate to the rest of us.


I must have missed the bit where bigdjiver was dictating to me, perhaps you can point it out! :)

[stewart38]

This is boring because


I agree that Mikeys classes are better for fixed partners anyway. Unless of course people don't mind doing that sort of thing with people they don't really know but then that is up to them.

Yes it is :yeah:

and



Last year at Camber Mikey took the very last class which sometimes can be poorly attended due to tiredness and fatigue from the weekend etc, however the class was full with dancers looking to end the weekend on a high. ---------, it's purely fun to be had on the day with your fixed partner.


so there you have it

End of debate . If you dont like it stay away but stop going on about it :mad:

[Andy McGregor]

End of debate . If you dont like it stay away but stop going on about it :mad:I stopped ages ago :wink:

[Sinner]

I stopped ages ago :wink:

Well, it won't be the first time you have supposedly stopped, but here's hoping you have at last and the forum can move on, in truth I am as bored seeing you harping on about me and my classes as everyone else on here.. But no doubt the next time you start someone can quote you saying, "I stopped ages ago":rolleyes:

On last thing, can someone quote me so Andy can get to read it.. please.:wink:

Mikey

[El Salsero Gringo]

Well, it won't be the first time you have supposedly stopped, but here's hoping you have at last and the forum can move on, in truth I am as bored seeing you harping on about me and my classes as everyone else on here.. But no doubt the next time you start someone can quote you saying, "I stopped ages ago":rolleyes:

On last thing, can someone quote me so Andy can get to read it.. please. :wink:

MikeyOnly if you promise not to use bold type any more. (Mauve is such a lovely colour, don't you think?)

[Andy McGregor]

Only if you promise not to use bold type any more (Mauve is such a lovely colour, don't you think?)
Especially when combined with green to give the feel of Wimbledon Tennis Club.

[Dreadful Scathe]

new balls please :)

[drathzel]

new balls please :)

Surely It cant be that bad!:devil:

[Rhythm King]

Now, about those being-hit-over-the-head lessons....

Better, better, but WAAAAH!!!!!

[Donna]

Especially when combined with green to give the feel of Wimbledon Tennis Club.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[DianaS]

I've only been to one of Mikeys classes and it was called sweet and sassy...not to my taste 'cas I hate people pawing over me so the idea of paying to go to a strictly sinful workshop never appealed.

I thought the session that I did attend was weakly choreographed and depended on sexualisation of dance to appeal to a rather group who didn't seem to know yet or recognise or care about the difference.
I have seem some versions of his double trouble on video and found it extremely distasteful, involving one women with two men who mimed sexual acts with her while her performance indicated that she was passive and submissive. It seemed pornographic and probably would belong in a poorly directed blue movie. Sad

Dance for me includes a whole range of emotions and expressions but I try and steer well clear of any one who markets it as a substitute or opening for sexual or near sexual experience. Dodgy in my estimation, and I'd rather not be placed in a position where some one thought I may be consenting because I was there, in that venue where that form of behaviour is legitimised or sanctioned by management.

But yes I'm bored by all of this to me its self evident, people buy the Sun but not because its a quality newpaper and people may attend Mikey classes but not because they want to learn to dance.

I expect he's made alot of money and will continue to do so, but would feel uncomfortable if the style he's developing became more than slap and tickle and one offs for people who wanted this form of directed intimacy.

It's not dance and so doen't have a place for me in my dance world, and doesn't seem to appeal to many of my dance friends either
I'd rather have a nice cup of tea.:flower:

So there you go
I've

[Donna]

I have seem some versions of his double trouble on video and found it extremely distasteful, involving one women with two men who mimed sexual acts with her while her performance indicated that she was passive and submissive.

I have to agree with Diana here. The nature of the moves are just too much and as for the one you have just described, I certainly wouldn't want to do it. A majority of people I have spoken to regarding these workshops totally disagree with them and my fear would be that if I was to put such moves into action on the dance floor, then I would most probably get a bad reputation...but then I wouldn't want to do it anyway!


I'd rather have a nice cup of tea.:flower:

Me too!

Well said diana. x

[TiggsTours]

I have to agree with Diana here. The nature of the moves are just too much and as for the one you have just described, I certainly wouldn't want to do it. A majority of people I have spoken to regarding these workshops totally disagree with them and my fear would be that if I was to put such moves into action on the dance floor, then I would most probably get a bad reputation...but then I wouldn't want to do it anyway!



Me too!

Well said diana. x
I agree, they are probably to some people distasteful. I for one have never been to one of Mikey's classes, I would only go if I had a set partner, and even then I don't think it would be my thing. I don't think the moves he teaches should be for the social dance floor. I believe that they should be just for those who want to do these moves, with a set partner, and should never be led on the social floor. Mikey, stresses that this is the sort of moves he teaches, and that they should only be performed within a set partnership, and never socially. What's wrong with that? I don't read the Sun, but I don't call for it to be banned either, I say, to each their own, and if you don't like it, you don't have to do it.

[DianaS]

I agree, they are probably to some people distasteful. I for one have never been to one of Mikey's classes, I would only go if I had a set partner, and even then I don't think it would be my thing. I don't think the moves he teaches should be for the social dance floor. I believe that they should be just for those who want to do these moves, with a set partner, and should never be led on the social floor. Mikey, stresses that this is the sort of moves he teaches, and that they should only be performed within a set partnership, and never socially. What's wrong with that? I don't read the Sun, but I don't call for it to be banned either, I say, to each their own, and if you don't like it, you don't have to do it.
Funny thing is that guys that I know if they had a set partner to dance with actually want to practice dancing..::)
and if they have a girlfriend they don't seem to want instruction:rofl: :rofl: :eek:

[Donna]

Funny thing is that guys that I know if they had a set partner to dance with actually want to practice dancing..::)
and if they have a girlfriend they don't seem to want instruction:rofl: :rofl: :eek:

:yeah: :rofl:

[Dreadful Scathe]

what i want to know is - where on earth did the 58 people who voted come from?? this is the most popular vote in ages. I'd suggest vote rigging but that would be cynical :)

[Andy McGregor]

what i want to know is - where on earth did the 58 people who voted come from?? this is the most popular vote in ages. I'd suggest vote rigging but that would be cynical :)And you're not cynical, you're clinical. As in "clinically insane" :eek: For a smurf you're quite normal, for a Scottish Dancer you're completely barkers. Who would be interested in rigging a vote on the forum? Who would be interested in proving that the majority of dancers see these workshops as acceptable :whistle: That would be ridiculous and you smurfs see conspiracy* everywhere.

*and ankles, being just seven inches tall.

[David Bailey]

Various comments
I have to say, those comments have made me think - certainly much more than Andy McG's ranting, which I skim past now anyway.

The fact that all three women have similar views about it - that is quite thought-provoking. I used to be anti-the-routine (again, I've only seen one) as I didn't think it had any relationship to sexiness and implied that a set of moves could make you a sexy dancer*.

Now I'm wondering if maybe Andy has a point. If these routines are causing significant offence to experienced, outgoing and confident female dancers, what message are they giving to others - new starters, the shy, the less confident and so on?

I dunno - I take on board what people say about salsa, but in the fairly long time I've done salsa, I've not seen or heard many women complain about being taught offensive routines.

Hmmm.... food for thought, certainly.

* Whereas we all know that being short, bald and with a bit of a belly makes you really sexy.

[Andy McGregor]

* Whereas we all know that being short, bald and with a bit of a belly makes you really sexy.So, I just need to work on the belly - somebody pass the doughnuts :waycool:

[bigdjiver]

... I get the impression that the only weekender dirty dancing classes have been taught by Mikey so intentionally or not you have effectively blamed him.I have never been on a weekender. I have never knowingly seen Mikey. I do not know what moves he teaches, or does not teach. I therefore have no opinion on his classes. As far as I am concerned all I have done is drag a material fact into an argument.


you probably won't like this - you and one or two others do seem to be on a crusade to stop dance moves that an awful lot of people see as harmless fun for grown-ups.I am all in favour of harmless fun for grown-ups, and I like it too. That is one of the reasons I love MJ and do what I can to promote it.


OK, there is an occasional problem with an occasional guy who comes onto the dancing scene and uses it as an excuse for things that he shouldn't do. But (and I've been dancing for a very long time now) it doesn't happen that often and, when it does, the guy's coincerned don't usually last very long before the girls ostracise them. And (I assume) that the girls enjoy dancing enough with normal guys to be prepared to take the risk (such as it is) of an unpleasant experience once in a blue moon.I have been attending dances for a long time too, and, from what I hear, some perverts have been dancing longer. There is an inexhaustable supply of potential new victims. There have been many court cases where well respected people in positions of trust and authority have abused their position for decades. Many vicitims flee the scene without reporting the incident, many abusers move on to new pastures frequently. I do believe it is the duty of authority to reduce the risks to the minimum. It is an area I am working on (I will not elaborate on that statement.)


... So maybe they thought you were making a fuss over nothing? ...I got so close to the action because I was preparing myself to bodily evict the perpetrator if the victim indicated that course of action, trying to ensure that I was between the perpetrator and the victims boyfriend, who was also quite near. It was quite clear from the expression on their faces that it was not a "fuss over nothing". As it happened both of them were hard enough and mature enough to just let it ride rather that initiate an ugly scene.

[TheTramp]

* Whereas we all know that being short, bald and with a bit of a belly makes you really sexy.

Woohoo....

Best news I've heard all day!! :clap:


(Now, if I can just get it down to a point where it can be classified as 'a bit'!! :sick: )

[Andy McGregor]

(Now, if I can just get it down to a point where it can be classified as 'a bit'!! :sick: )
I think the "a bit" was understatement. The Tramp provides the perfect package for any girl looking for a sexy guy - although he's probably a couple of inches too tall for absolute perfection* he's still very much in the zone :flower:

*As is generally agreed, the perfect height for a sexy male dancer is 5'7". A dancer who's two inches either way can, however, look 5'7" by wearing heels or stooping a bit :innocent:

[TiggsTours]

I have to say, those comments have made me think - certainly much more than Andy McG's ranting, which I skim past now anyway.

The fact that all three women have similar views about it - that is quite thought-provoking. I used to be anti-the-routine (again, I've only seen one) as I didn't think it had any relationship to sexiness and implied that a set of moves could make you a sexy dancer*.

Now I'm wondering if maybe Andy has a point. If these routines are causing significant offence to experienced, outgoing and confident female dancers, what message are they giving to others - new starters, the shy, the less confident and so on?

I dunno - I take on board what people say about salsa, but in the fairly long time I've done salsa, I've not seen or heard many women complain about being taught offensive routines.

Hmmm.... food for thought, certainly.

* Whereas we all know that being short, bald and with a bit of a belly makes you really sexy.
Please don't mis-quote me, I have never spoken out against Mikey's classes, I have said that they don't personally appeal to me, but I have never called them offensive, or called for them to be banned. I believe that if people want to attend Mikey's classes, and he remains open about what they entail, there is nothing wrong with them.


... I get the impression that the only weekender dirty dancing classes have been taught by Mikey so intentionally or not you have effectively blamed him.
Not so, I have seen dirty dancing classes taught by plenty of other people, years before Mikey started teaching them, and I have seen other dancers perform far sexier moves on the social dance floor than I have ever seen Mikey perform socially, even with a regular partner, again, for years before Mikey started teaching his very popular (with some) Strictly Sinful classes.

[stewart38]

If these routines are causing significant offence to experienced, outgoing and confident female dancers, what message are they giving to others - new starters, the shy, the less confident and so on?




Funny thing is that guys that I know if they had a set partner to dance with actually want to practice dancing..::)
and if they have a girlfriend they don't seem to want instruction:rofl: :rofl: :eek:


What message does the forum give out with this Twadle, a rant of bias unfounded b******* !

Most people who complain have never been to or seen his classes

Significant offence to who ? If 500 attended one of his classes as camber are 75 out of 250 women walking of after 3 mins . Reading the above you would assume so

I heard 250 women actually laughing at the end

Id say half in fix partners were in 'relationships' maybe more.

This is how the Nazi came to power :mad:

[DianaS]

This is how the Nazi came to power :mad:
- They invented the goose step, but didn't ban either sex or dancing :confused:
To my knowledge:rolleyes:

[stewart38]

- They invented the goose step, but didn't ban either sex or dancing :confused:
To my knowledge:rolleyes:


They persecuted a set of people based on false information and often published such information in a public forum

[David Bailey]

This is how the Nazi came to power :mad:
What, by teaching strictly sinful classes?

Godwin invocation! I win!! :clap: :clap:

Anyway, enough of this - and for the record, I wasn't complaining, I was stating that the comments by 3 women in succession had made me think, is all, so get off my back ***.

More importantly, I have to take definite issue with the highly controversial statement:


As is generally agreed, the perfect height for a sexy male dancer is 5'7". A dancer who's two inches either way can, however, look 5'7" by wearing heels or stooping a bit
Now hold on one minute - I clearly recall the Congress Of Southport treaty, making a definitive ruling that it was actually 5' 6.5", and that's final. :mad:

End of discussion. :na:

[LMC]

Sorry, but you forgot the magic words.

Mornington Crescent

I win.

[stewart38]

What, by teaching strictly sinful classes?

Godwin invocation! I win!! :clap: :clap:

Anyway, enough of this - and for the record, I wasn't complaining, I was stating that the comments by 3 women in succession had made me think, is all, so get off my back ***.




Zis is my point

you made a comment about a person that was untrue

She told you it was untrue but again you have mention the '3' surely it was just '2'

------------------------------------------
During the spring of 1933, Nazi student organizations, professors, and librarians made up long lists of books they thought should not be read by Germans. Then, on the night of May 10, 1933, Nazis raided libraries and bookstores across Germany. They marched by torchlight in nighttime parades, sang chants, and threw books into huge bonfires.On that night more than 25,000 books were burned. Many of the books were referring to a 'Dirty dancing rountines and ----------------

[TiggsTours]

Zis is my point

you made a comment about a person that was untrue

She told you it was untrue but again you have mention the '3' surely it was just '2'

------------------------------------------
During the spring of 1933, Nazi student organizations, professors, and librarians made up long lists of books they thought should not be read by Germans. Then, on the night of May 10, 1933, Nazis raided libraries and bookstores across Germany. They marched by torchlight in nighttime parades, sang chants, and threw books into huge bonfires.On that night more than 25,000 books were burned. Many of the books were referring to a 'Dirty dancing rountines and ----------------
Thank you for noticing.:flower:

[David Bailey]

------------------------------------------
During the spring of 1933, Nazi student organizations, professors, and librarians made up long lists of books they thought should not be read by Germans. Then, on the night of May 10, 1933, Nazis raided libraries and bookstores across Germany. They marched by torchlight in nighttime parades, sang chants, and threw books into huge bonfires.On that night more than 25,000 books were burned. Many of the books were referring to a 'Dirty dancing rountines and ----------------
Humour doesn't revoke Godwin's Law. I still win.

But, :rofl: :rofl:

[stewart38]

Thank you for noticing.:flower:

Bet DJ has had you locked up now

I come visit :flower:

[TiggsTours]

Bet DJ has had you locked up now

I come visit :flower:
Who knows, if we keep on about it, he may eventually apologise to me for mis-quoting me, twice!

[El Salsero Gringo]

This is how the Nazi came to power :mad:Actually I think you'll find they were elected, with 13.75 million votes in 1932, according to the Wikipedia entry, and 43.9% of the electorate in 1933.

Seeing as Mr. Hitler was democratically elected, just who did we think we were to argue with his policies?

[stewart38]

Actually I think you'll find they were elected, with 13.75 million votes in 1932, according to the Wikipedia entry, and 43.9% of the electorate in 1933.

Seeing as Mr. Hitler was democratically elected, just who did we think we were to argue with his policies?

which leads us nicely on to IRAN which although is probably not a 'target market' for Mikeys classes, clearly if we have nuclear why not them ?

according to the recent guide 0.0000001% of the electorate voted for them (cf 0.00003% for Labour)

[LMC]

OK, I'm officially lost now...

Stewart, try taking more water with 'em.

[stewart38]

OK, I'm officially lost now...

Stewart, try taking more water with 'em.

Its going off thread its been done before

I just like 'sinful' at the 'top' on the forum thats all :whistle:

[Donna]

I dunno - I take on board what people say about salsa, but in the fairly long time I've done salsa, I've not seen or heard many women complain about being taught offensive routines.

People are very selective about what type of sexy moves they will do. Salsa is a feel good dance and it's supposed to make you feel sexy too! :nice:

Some of the moves Mikey does would even scare a porn star off!!:rofl:

[stewart38]

People are very selective about what type of sexy moves they will do. Salsa is a feel good dance and it's supposed to make you feel sexy too! :nice:

Some of the moves Mikey does would even scare a porn star off!!:rofl:

Ive heard from many sources far more sleeze in Salsa then ceroc/jive

[TiggsTours]

Ive heard from many sources far more sleeze in Salsa then ceroc/jive
I'd agree with that, having been to many salsa clubs before, its the main reason I never got really into it, too many sleazy men just looking for a grope.

[Donna]

Ive heard from many sources far more sleeze in Salsa then ceroc/jive

Name them.

[drathzel]

Ive heard from many sources far more sleeze in Salsa then ceroc/jive

actually i have too:flower:

[stewart38]

Name them.


Talk to all the women for names, i dont get groped so i never ask for the name :sad:

[Andy McGregor]

Now hold on one minute - I clearly recall the Congress Of Southport treaty, making a definitive ruling that it was actually 5' 6.5", and that's final. :mad:

End of discussion. :na:In this particular study dancers were ranked for sexyness and those judged as 'most sexy' were measured. This measurement as, as pointed out by Mr James, 5' 6.5". However, on further investigation it was found that those dancers started the dance at 5' 7". This shortening effect, hereinafter called "Clevedonboying" was due to compression of intravertebral discs caused by the weight of women pestering those 'most sexy' guys for a dance.

[clevedonboy]

In this particular study dancers were ranked for sexyness and those judged as 'most sexy' were measured. This measurement as, as pointed out by Mr James, 5' 6.5". However, on further investigation it was found that those dancers started the dance at 5' 7". This shortening effect, hereinafter called "Clevedonboying" was due to compression of intravertebral discs caused by the weight of women pestering those 'most sexy' guys for a dance.

Do you mean that I used to be 5' 7" and have only become shorter since taking up dance? I want my money and those 3 inches back!

Incidentally our Lindy teacher told us this week that if you maintain the internal bounce, you'll be lighter, so no more diets for me I'm just going to bounce (internally)

[Andy McGregor]

Do you mean that I used to be 5' 7" and have only become shorter since taking up dance? I want my money and those 3 inches back!


"Clevedonboying" was due to compression of intravertebral discs caused by the weight of women pestering those 'most sexy' guys for a dance.

Clevedonboy has been pestered too much for being sexy. He's nearly out of the zone now so the effect of being nearly 5' 7" will start to wear off as he gets progressively shorter :innocent:

Maybe us guys of perfect height should start to ration our favours to maintain our height advantage :confused:

[Whitebeard]

In this particular study dancers were ranked for sexyness and those judged as 'most sexy' were measured. This measurement as, as pointed out by Mr James, 5' 6.5". However, on further investigation it was found that those dancers started the dance at 5' 7". This shortening effect, hereinafter called "Clevedonboying" was due to compression of intravertebral discs caused by the weight of women pestering those 'most sexy' guys for a dance.


Funilly enough (is funny really the right word?) I measured my height yesterday and got a real surprise, 5ft 8.25in. In my prime I was 5ft 9.75in. A compression of 1.5in. No wonder so many girls appear to be so tall these days.

[Andy McGregor]

Funilly enough (is funny really the right word?) I measured my height yesterday and got a real surprise, 5ft 8.25in. In my prime I was 5ft 9.75in. A compression of 1.5in. No wonder so many girls appear to be so tall these days.Your height loss is probably caused by women in high heels mistaking you for being 5' 7". The good news is that you're .75" into the zone :clap: And that gives you another 3.25" of women-wanting-you induced height loss before you have to start wearing high heels - but it's worth starting to practice walking in them now as they really are hard work :tears:

[Zuhal]

I am not a fan of Mikey's lessons but there is no doubt he can command and entertain a room.:clap:

Without any preamble I took a "new to dance" female to a venue where he was teaching to watch her reaction. I timed our arrival so that she could participate for the last 10 mins or sit out. Her reaction was that she was not interested in most of the lesson being taught but there was an interesting foot push move.

I encouraged her to dance with the man himself who was a perfect gentleman on the dance floor and did what he always does, that is to entertain the individual or group who is before him.:waycool:

Zuhal

[ducasi]

Now hold on one minute - I clearly recall the Congress Of Southport treaty, making a definitive ruling that it was actually 5' 6.5", and that's final. :mad:

End of discussion. :na: On my thread, the ideal height for a man is 5' 7½".

End of.

[WittyBird]

On my thread, the ideal height for a man is 5' 7½".

End of.

The ideal height for a woman is 5' 2½".:whistle:

[Whitebeard]

The ideal height for a woman is 5' 2½".:whistle:

Hi, tich ;-)

[TheTramp]

The ideal height for a woman is 5' 2½".:whistle:

This is (from what I've read) Fletch, right? But only when she's lying down on her back.... :rolleyes:

[WittyBird]

This is (from what I've read) Fletch, right? But only when she's lying down on her back.... :rolleyes:

Run as fast as you can before she finds you :rofl:

[Sinner]

This is (from what I've read) Fletch, right? But only when she's lying down on her back.... :rolleyes:

I can tell you that Fletch standing at any height is a sexy, curvy wafer:yum: unlike some I happen to know eh Trampy :wink: best not to speculate about ladies you don't know on their backs, particularly when they are taller than you and several times fiestier:whistle:

[fletch]

This is (from what I've read) Fletch, right? But only when she's lying down on her back.... :rolleyes:


Tramp

mmmmm now let me think, what your punishment will be they don't call me scary for nothing.:wink:

Perhaps this might be a good idea for the truth or dare thread:devil: I am currently weighting my dare:whistle: you punishment may be out of hands,:innocent: but whatever looks like we have unfinished business.:eek:


I would like to know what you have read about, me lying down on my back:what:

Are you going to STORM? better watch out:D

[frodo]

On my thread, the ideal height for a man is 5' 7½".
End of.
The ideal height for a woman is 5' 2½".:whistle:

While there can be no argument about Ducasi's statement, any statement about the idea height of a woman must clearly be qualified by heel size (unless that is in heels ) :)

[Andy McGregor]

This is (from what I've read) Fletch, right? But only when she's lying down on her back.... :rolleyes:Fletch is so 'pert' she's the same height on her front or her back:eek:

[WittyBird]

a woman must clearly be qualified by heel size (unless that is in heels ) :)

Nah that was in bare feet, as in just got out of bed look :whistle:

[Donna]

Talk to all the women for names, i dont get groped so i never ask for the name :sad:


Why the sad face?:wink:

[Winnie]

The ideal height for a woman is 5' 2½".:whistle:

:yeah:

[Minnie M]

The ideal height for a woman is 5' 2½".
:yeah:



:yeah: :yeah:

[drathzel]

The ideal height for a woman is 5' 2½".:whistle:

actually you only a 1/4 inch shy!:D

[bigdjiver]

... I doubt that the move was an invention. Since there is so much interest I will investigate the name of the teacher and the weekender at the next opportunity.I asked the demonstrator of the "move". He named Mikey.
I PM'ed Mikey. Mikey denied teaching a move of that name or any move involving that precise part of the anatomy, and points out that his classes are on video.
The demonstrator of the move may have mis-observed the move, and given it his own name. Whatever, he had no right to spring it on a non-consenting partner.