Spelling - does it matter on The Forum?

[Gadget]

Recently there have been several digs about my spelling (or lack thereof) and the view has been expressed that it is just lazy, rude and disrespectful to miss-spell, use incorrect grammar and bad punctuation. There is no excuse for it and it shows a lack of thoughtfulness towards every other forum member.

My view is that if you are intelligent enough to recognise a spelling error, then you know the word that was intended. If you know the word that was intended, then syntax, content, meaning and communication remain intact.
Does the transposition of two letters or the use of the incorrect vowel or a slop of the fingers {:wink:} detract from the content?

When posting on this forum, you are talking to friends. (and some fiends :innocent: ) Think on how your voice and language change when you are answering the phone - the "posh voice" is soon replaced by a more relaxed and 'sloppy' way of speaking. You're not writing a thesis, doctrine, speech, report, book, ... or any other formal document. You are chatting among friends.

When talking, do you never slur, make Freudian slaps, trip over your own tongue, have to repeat yourself, mumble, stutter...And this is going from brain to mouth at the speed of thought! On here you have to go from thought to words to letters to position on keyboard to hitting the right keys - and while doing that, be thinking on the next word. Lots of places to screw up.


{BTW the 'no' options above assume that meaning is not lost by inappropriate use of spelling, grammar, punctuation or smlilies. It's a multiple tic - but please don't tick both the yes and no options for the same thing.}

[pjay]

{BTW the 'no' options above assume that meaning is not lost by inappropriate use of spelling, grammar, punctuation or smlilies. It's a multiple tic - but please don't tick both the yes and no options for the same thing.}

Given this assumption, I vote no to all...

I think that the purpose of spelling is to communication a meaning, and if that meaning is communicated regardless of spelling then the spelling is not important.

In saying this I do think that spelling, grammar and so forth are important and if one were to watch the way that I type and the number of corrections that I make, then you'd probably believe this (I think the delete key is the most used on my keyboard, or at least a close second to the spacebar).

So I think it's worth putting in effort to spelling and I think it does show respect - in the same way that arriving on time shows respect. But I also recognise that writing a post on this sort of forum is a more social interaction than some other forms of writing, so I'm not going to get upset about people making small mistakes here and there.

I think the spelling becomes vital when it changes the meaning... I once saw a person accidentally swap an 'u' for an 'a'.... in this particular case the implications where huge. The person was a project manager and he had inadvertantly changed a required delivery date from "Jan" to "Jun" :eek: (I'm not convinced the customer would be very happy about this).

[Heather]

Recently there have been several digs about my spelling (or lack thereof) and the view has been expressed that it is just lazy, rude and disrespectful to miss-spell, use incorrect grammar and bad punctuation. There is no excuse for it and it shows a lack of thoughtfulness towards every other forum member.

My view is that if you are intelligent enough to recognise a spelling error, then you know the word that was intended. If you know the word that was intended, then syntax, content, meaning and communication remain intact.
Does the transposition of two letters or the use of the incorrect vowel or a slop of the fingers {:wink:} detract from the content?

When posting on this forum, you are talking to friends. (and some fiends :innocent: ) Think on how your voice and language change when you are answering the phone - the "posh voice" is soon replaced by a more relaxed and 'sloppy' way of speaking. You're not writing a thesis, doctrine, speech, report, book, ... or any other formal document. You are chatting among friends.

When talking, do you never slur, make Freudian slaps, trip over your own tongue, have to repeat yourself, mumble, stutter...And this is going from brain to mouth at the speed of thought! On here you have to go from thought to words to letters to position on keyboard to hitting the right keys - and while doing that, be thinking on the next word. Lots of places to screw up.


{BTW the 'no' options above assume that meaning is not lost by inappropriate use of spelling, grammar, punctuation or smlilies. It's a multiple tic - but please don't tick both the yes and no options for the same thing.}

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm getting used to your bad spelling Gadget!! Or maybe I'm becoming more 'tolerant' :whistle: :wink:
My pet hate at the moment is 'textspeak'. I can't make head nor tail of it!
I can excuse the occasional misspelt word , because as you say in your post, I do know the word that was intended.
However, texting is a completely different thing altogether, it's purpose is for sending text messages, not for writing or replying to theads !!
It is extremely difficult to read, and in my opinion ( which may or may not be that of anyone else) just means that the person is too lazy, or can't be bothered to make the effort to write out a proper message!!!!
I also hate the abbreviations ie: IMHO etc as I usually haven't a clue what they mean and this often means I don't get the correct intention/meaning of what the writer intended!
After that rant, I am now off to work to teach primary 5 some SPELLING and GRAMMAR !!! ( At which some of them are infinitely better than some of the people on this Forum):wink:

:hug: :kiss:
Heather,
X

[Andy McGregor]

This poll is emotionally charged and Gadget is making it difficult to vote yes without it being insulting. I've fixed that in this (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7430) poll.

[Andy McGregor]

In his post at the top of this thread Gadget has proved to us that he can spell. So why doesn't he.

As I've said before. Correct spelling and punctuation are there to aid effective communication. If something is spelt badly or written badly it requires a great deal of effort to decipher the authors intended meaning. And many people will give up. Especially if the post is a very long one. Gadget writes very long posts and they contain many spelling errors. This means his posts are hard work to read. He's asking us to tolerate is spelling. I'm asking him to make his posts easier for us to read.

[David Franklin]

On here you have to go from thought to words to letters to position on keyboard to hitting the right keys - and while doing that, be thinking on the next word. Lots of places to screw up.Which is why God invented the backspace key.

For any but the most trivial posts, I check and edit what I've written before I post. I figure if I'm expecting other people to read it, the least I can do is read it through myself.

Now the odd typo or misspelling in a post really doesn't bother me (as long as it's not in the title :mad: ), but when it starts feeling like I'm solving one of those puzzles from the Da Vinci code it does get a little irritating.

To be fair, I don't find your posts particularly bad on the spelling front these days - I think you've improved a lot since a couple of years ago. Your reputation for innovative speeling stems mainly from that time, I think.

[Missy D]

Me and Sister Dees spelling, grammar etc I know is really bad. I blame it on the weird way we were taught english in school. We learnt a method called ITA. Not sure what the purpose of this was but, it certainly buggered up our education. I went to 5 different primary schools in which all taught english in very different ways. The spelling of my name even varied. Dawn in some schools (especially the ITA learning school) was spelt 'Dorn'. What chance did i have of making an english professor.

I do try my hardest and despite my spelling etc I hope that i do get my point across.

[Lory]

Bad spelling doesn't really bother me, I can find it highly amusing sometimes :D but bad punctuation is another thing entirely, it can change the whole meaning of a post.

There are times, when I've had to read something through several times, before I can get the gist of it.:confused:

But, as long as I can understand what the person 'means,' I'm OK with it.;)

[Barry Shnikov]

Which is why God invented the backspace key.

Wow. You have to admire His attention to detail.

[philsmove]

......
My view is that if you are intelligent enough to recognise a spelling error, then you know the word that was intended. If you know the word that was intended, then syntax, content, meaning and communication remain intact.


:yeah: :hug: :yeah: :cheers::yeah: :flower: :yeah: :worthy: :yeah:

[David Franklin]

Wow. You have to admire His attention to detail.What more proof do you need for Intelligent Design?

[El Salsero Gringo]

Hey, if bad spelling winds up Andy McGeggor, I'm going to tri it.

[LMC]

BOTH my parents were English teachers, I'm a trained proof-reader and a PA.

So I tend to forget about all that or I'd go nuts. As long as I can understand what's being communicated, that's the important thing, although some "constant" errors get to me on occasion (see Pedants' Corner if you really care - I can't even be a*sed to link to it because I'm in a good and non-picky mood today).

Textspeak or ALL CAPS should be avoided because they are difficult to read.

I don't care about smilies really, but sometimes wince at very large and bright fonts (mainly because it makes it blindingly obvious that I'm not working).

Actually, cancel that about my mood... I can't believe I've just spent three minutes typing this message on something which I normally consider really really trivial - I'm off to get a cup of tea and have a nice little sulk.

[MartinHarper]

Does the transposition of two letters or the use of the incorrect vowel or a slop of the fingers {:wink:} detract from the content?

Errors make posts harder to read, which detracts from the content.
If someone cares about her readers, she should write clear posts.

[Whitebeard]

If someone cares about her readers, she should write clear posts.

What about we (or even wee) fellers; or are we a lost cause.

[Whitebeard]

In his post at the top of this thread Gadget has proved to us that he can spell. So why doesn't he.


He obviously put his post through the spell-checker; which no doubt vastly improved on his draft. But a few words which are valid in their spelling, but wrong in their context, betray his secret.

[pjay]

So what about this research then????



Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is that the frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe


I've also come across research that suggested that the first letter followed by a series of verticle lines to an appropriate height was also enough for people to read - but I don't have any links for this...

[Andy McGregor]

So what about this research then????



I've also come across research that suggested that the first letter followed by a series of verticle lines to an appropriate height was also enough for people to read - but I don't have any links for this...This proves it important to get the first and last letters correct. Maybe Gadget could start to do that :innocent:

[MartinHarper]

I've also come across research that suggested that the first letter followed by a series of verticle lines to an appropriate height was also enough for people to read - but I don't have any links for this...

Txhxexrxex ixsx ax dxixfxfxexrxexnxcxex bxextxwxexexnx ax pxoxsxtx txhxaxtx ixtx ixsx pxoxsxsxixbxlxex txox dxexcxoxdxex, axnxdx oxnxex txhxaxtx ixsx cxlxexaxrx axnxdx exaxsxyx txox rxexaxdx.

Wouldn't you agree?

[pjay]

Txhxexrxex ixsx ax dxixfxfxexrxexnxcxex bxextxwxexexnx ax pxoxsxtx txhxaxtx ixtx ixsx pxoxsxsxixbxlxex txox dxexcxoxdxex, axnxdx oxnxex txhxaxtx ixsx cxlxexaxrx axnxdx exaxsxyx txox rxexaxdx.

Wouldn't you agree?

Actually I found that that one wasn't too bad really... yes it is slower to read, but then sometimes I think we'd benefit from slowing down a touch..

Ieneteeereeeseteienegeleye Ie teheieneke iefe yeoeue weaenete teoe meaekeee iete heaerede teoe reeeaede tereye peueteteienege iene seoemeee meoereee ceoememeoene leeeteteeerese.

I found that witin about half the sentence my mind was skipping the x's or perhaps I was just assuming that I knew what the rest of the sentence said.

[Stuart M]

Hey, if bad spelling winds up Andy McGeggor, I'm going to tri it.
Is their a campign website I can sine up at?

[Andy McGregor]

Is their a campign website I can sine up at?Now you're going off at a tangent :wink:

[DianaS]

i know someone who always puts typos into his texts when posting publically. used to amuse me he's a profe3ssor of education and I thought he must type and drink...
turned out he didn't want to alientate students and make them scared of posting so he deliberabley set the standard low so that people caopuld talk communicate and not get hung up on whether or not they can spell.

So i reckon do you want an inclusive forum or one where only people of a certain calibre can post. People who are so up their own arses in any case that they would just bore the pants off every one esle

[Dreadful Scathe]

Is there anyone on here 'up their own arse' ? :)

[pjay]

Is there anyone on here 'up their own arse' ? :)


oh oh, pick me..... no hang on, that's not what I meant....

[doc martin]

To be fair, I don't find your posts particularly bad on the spelling front these days - I think you've improved a lot since a couple of years ago. Your reputation for innovative speeling stems mainly from that time, I think.
As a relative newcomer here I would like to say that I didn't realise that you had a reputation for bad spelling... just for long posts :D .

{BTW the 'no' options above assume that meaning is not lost by inappropriate use of spelling, grammar, punctuation or smlilies. It's a multiple tic - but please don't tick both the yes and no options for the same thing.}
IMHO (sorry Heather :devil: ) this is the key point. In a short post it won't interfere much with the communication if there are a few typos. However, I disagree with this:

My view is that if you are intelligent enough to recognise a spelling error, then you know the word that was intended.
If you are building a long, reasoned argument then anything which causes the reader to stop thinking about the line of reasoning will impair the communication, and trying to figure out a badly misspelled word can do this.

The research quoted by pjay is very interesting and was recently exploited by an advert on the railways. One side consequence of this is that we are very bad at proof reading our own writing. Hence the need for spell checkers.

I'm not too sure about the disrespect angle of things. To me it seems more that if you put a lot of effort into writing a long, well thought out post, you want to maximise the effect that post has. And that means making it as readable as possible. So proof reading the flow and grammar yourself and then spell checking the whole post is more a matter of using your own time well than consideration of your reader's feelings. [Note the appeal to naked self interest rather than altruism. Often more successful I find]

To my mind, the small amount of effort taken to cut and paste the whole post into Word is well worth it, both to improve the impact of the post and to keep the pedants off of my back.

[ducasi]

So i reckon do you want an inclusive forum or one where only people of a certain calibre can post. People who are so up their own arses in any case that they would just bore the pants off every one esle :yeah: (And :yeah: to the typo to!)

[doc martin]

Now you're going off at a tangent :wink:
So what's your angle on this?

[David Franklin]

To my mind, the small amount of effort taken to cut and paste the whole post into Word is well worth it, both to improve the impact of the post and to keep the pedants off of my back.Even easier: the latest Google toolbar (http://toolbar.google.com) has an integrated spell checker.

[Andy McGregor]

Is there anyone on here 'up their own arse' ? :)I'm trying it now, it's not as easy as you'd think :devil:

I do not believe that Gadget is spelling badly because of lack of ability. He's spelling badly because he doesn't think it matters. It's obvious that some people are bad spellers due to a number of factors like education or dyslexia and I have no problem with them at all. But Gadget doesn't fall into those categories and his spelling is so dismal it makes his posts frustrating to read. This means that many of his posts go unread or only partially read.

I'm still trying that "up my own arse" thing". But it's proving a bit painful getting the laptop to follow me up :sick:

[Andy McGregor]

So what's your angle on this?The right angle.

[LMC]

An obtuse one, surely?

[ducasi]

I do not believe that Gadget is spelling badly because of lack of ability. He's spelling badly because he doesn't think it matters. It's obvious that some people are bad spellers due to a number of factors like education or dyslexia and I have no problem with them at all. But Gadget doesn't fall into those categories ... How do you know this? (I have no idea why his spelling is bad.)

[David Franklin]

An obtuse one, surely?:yeah: 'Cos it only takes a secant to work out it was a negative tangent...

[Andy McGregor]

How do you know this? (I have no idea why his spelling is bad.)Gadget has said so. And he can spell when he puts his mind to it. I thought I'd said that :confused:

[David Bailey]

i know someone who always puts typos into his texts when posting publically. used to amuse me he's a profe3ssor of education and I thought he must type and drink...
turned out he didn't want to alientate students and make them scared of posting so he deliberabley set the standard low so that people caopuld talk communicate and not get hung up on whether or not they can spell.
That's an... interesting... point of view. OK, let's be blunt (everyone else is), it's dumb.

Surely he'd be better off setting an example of good practice, trying to raise the standards, rather than trying to handicap himself? And surely we should all be aiming to improve ourselves rather than lower ourselves?

It sounds like he's heard of "writing for your audience" without actually understanding it. :rolleyes:

If brilliant dancers come to a venue, should they deliberately make dancing mistakes? Or should they dance as well as they can, whilst targetting their dancing to match the style and ability of their partners?


So i reckon do you want an inclusive forum or one where only people of a certain calibre can post. People who are so up their own arses in any case that they would just bore the pants off every one esle
Can I pick option 3 please?

I want a forum where people improve, and where inclusiveness means we can criticize and debate without rancour.

Oh, and I want world peace as well. And a pony to go with Ducasi's.

[LMC]

I want a forum where people improve, and where inclusiveness means we can criticize and debate without rancour.
:yeah:

And take the p*** out of each other occasionally (especially DJ).

I'll have a pony as well please. And a plastic rocket.

[pjay]

That's an... interesting... point of view. OK, let's be blunt (everyone else is), it's dumb.

Surely he'd be better off setting an example of good practice, trying to raise the standards, rather than trying to handicap himself? And surely we should all be aiming to improve ourselves rather than lower ourselves?

It sounds like he's heard of "writing for your audience" without actually understanding it. :rolleyes:

I think whether or not it's dumb depends on what he is trying to achieve - if he actually believes that people are not posting because they are worried about their ability to spell then it would make perfect sense to create a culture in which posting on that forum is demonstrated in such a fashion where the ability to do a good job of written language isn't important. It sounds to me like this is what he was trying to achieve... so the interesting thing in my mind is did he or did he not achieve his goal?

In terms of the dancer example... when a particularly talented lead, with much competition experience, who is capable of the most difficult of moves is dancing with a fairly new follow should he dance with her exactly the same as he would with his competition partner? I don't personally think so I would think that it would be reasonable for him to dance with her at around about her own level, and make sure to let her know that he's enjoying that dance too.

I know I'm particularly bad at it, but I really do prefer the approach where we watch first for the good things and encourage people in these things, rather than watching first for the bad things and kicking people when we see them.

[David Franklin]

Surely he'd be better off setting an example of good practice, trying to raise the standards, rather than trying to handicap himself? And surely we should all be aiming to improve ourselves rather than lower ourselves?:yeah: Coincidentally, I know a professor (married to her, actually!), who spends about half her marking time puzzling over the grammatical and spelling mistakes her students have made in order to work out what they were trying to say before she even gets to worrying about the actual content. And these are post-graduate students! :tears:


It sounds like he's heard of "writing for your audience" without actually understanding it. :rolleyes: Possibly harsh. I could see him having a valid argument if, for example, he was posting on a forum for people suffering from dyslexia. But I would ASSuME that as a professor of education his students are future educators, in which case :tears: :tears: :tears: !

[Andy McGregor]

i know someone who always puts typos into his texts when posting publically. used to amuse me he's a profe3ssor of education and I thought he must type and drink...
turned out he didn't want to alientate students and make them scared of posting so he deliberabley set the standard low so that people caopuld talk communicate and not get hung up on whether or not they can spell.

So i reckon do you want an inclusive forum or one where only people of a certain calibre can post. People who are so up their own arses in any case that they would just bore the pants off every one esleSetting aside for a moment that this may or may not be the right thing to do from an educational viewpoint, it's patently silly. If somebody is a bad speller they are as unlikely to recognise bad spelling as they are correct spelling. So, as far as the student with bad spelling is concerned it is likely to be assumed that the Professor will have correct spelling because he's a professor. Unless he points out that his spelling is deliberately incorrect and then students will be confused.

It's an nice theory but it doesn't really stand up. I believe the professor probably was a bad speller and had found a convenient excuse as a cover up.

[David Bailey]

Setting aside for a moment that this may or may not be the right thing to do from an educational viewpoint, it's patently silly.
:tears: I'm now having to agree with Andy...


In terms of the dancer example... when a particularly talented lead, with much competition experience, who is capable of the most difficult of moves is dancing with a fairly new follow should he dance with her exactly the same as he would with his competition partner?
Of course not, that would be equally dumb - that's why I said:

whilst targetting their dancing to match the style and ability of their partners

My analogy was of a dancer making deliberate mistakes - for example, dancing off-time occasionally, or yanking, with the aim of making their partner "feel better". Surely we can all agree that this would be a weird way to approach a dance?

In terms of the Nutty Professor (!), he should be writing at a level and style which reaches his intended audience. His approach smacks of the Ali G trendy wannabe "Yo! I'm one of u! Look I can spel bad too dudes!" style.

OK, I could me maligning the guy, there could be a valid reason for making mistakes - but "appealing to your audience by screwing up" doesn't seem sensible to me.

[stewart38]

I think the human mind doesnt really care its smarter then you think and most people understand what Im saying , I just need to convince them their idea/thought is wrong :wink:


Olny srmat poelpe can.

I Cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg.
The
phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at
Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a
wrod are,
the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the
rghit pclae.
The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a
porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef,
but the wrod
as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was
ipmorantt!

If you can raed tihs psas it on !!" :yeah:

[El Salsero Gringo]

...sffut...
Interesting. And the faster you go, the easier it is to understand and the more sense it appears to make.

(In fact that seems to apply to most of what Stewart writes... :whistle: )

[Heather]

I think the human mind doesnt really care its smarter then you think and most people understand what Im saying , I just need to convince them their idea/thought is wrong :wink:


Olny srmat poelpe can.

I Cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg.
The
phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at
Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a
wrod are,
the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the
rghit pclae.
The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a
porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef,
but the wrod
as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was
ipmorantt!

If you can raed tihs psas it on !!" :yeah:


Reading this totally irritates me!!!!!
What a pile of 'sihte' to utilise the above example of bad spelling
I agree with Mr McGregor spelling is important.
Grammar is important.
Those primary children on 'The Hard Spell' or whatever it was called, on TV during the holidays would put many a Forum member to shame.
:hug:
Heather,
x

[LMC]

If people are trying to write for a specific audience, vocabulary and sentence structure are the most useful things to adapt. Deliberately mis-spelling words is just silly and counter-productive as DJ & Andy M have said.

[pjay]

Of course not, that would be equally dumb - that's why I said:

Ooops. I screwed up again...


In terms of the Nutty Professor (!), he should be writing at a level and style which reaches his intended audience. His approach smacks of the Ali G trendy wannabe "Yo! I'm one of u! Look I can spel bad too dudes!" style.

OK, I could me maligning the guy, there could be a valid reason for making mistakes - but "appealing to your audience by screwing up" doesn't seem sensible to me.

It seems to me that he was not working in an attempt to be accepted himself, but to encourage acceptance and participation of others - now as has been said this could just be a cover-up for his bad spelling, but do we always have to assume the worst of people? (Yes I know that people do have a tendancy to try to hide their imperfections, but I find that most people by the time they get into their 20's are fairly aware that they exist, and most people who pursue a career such as this usually seem to be able to admit that they're not perfect).

Anyway... at the end of the day I think this is an example of opinions, and I think we have a fair idea of where each other stands - and it would seem to me that probably this professor stands on the side of "spelling is not as important as contribution."

[stewart38]

Reading this totally irritates me!!!!!
What a pile of 'sihte' to utilise the above example of bad spelling
I agree with Mr McGregor spelling is important.
Grammar is important.
Those primary children on 'The Hard Spell' or whatever it was called, on TV during the holidays would put many a Forum member to shame.
:hug:
Heather,
x


How many mistakes are there in this, I counted 6 :sad:

[David Bailey]

How many mistakes are there in this, I counted 6 :sad:
I got 8 - can anyone beat that? Do I get a prize? :yum:

[McJester]

Even easier: the latest Google toolbar (http://toolbar.google.com) has an integrated spell checker.


Is it any good ?

I'm Dyslexic ( something malious about how hard that is to spell ) and find that spell checkers help but quite often I can stump them, took me 2 years to find out necessary had a "c" in it :grin:

As long as people can understand what you are typing then to me it just being pedantic, verging on anal to get upset about spelling/grammer/punctuation.

Ok so I'm biased on the subject as I have poor written english skills, but what is the point in getting upset / disregarding someone's input if they have problems with written English, some very intellegent people aren't so hot on this, so should there comments be disregarded.

Basically you can guess that I'm with Gadget on this one.

:hug:
McJester

<hr>
" It's a might poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word " - Andrew Jackson

[David Bailey]

It seems to me that he was not working in an attempt to be accepted himself, but to encourage acceptance and participation of others
Good point, thanks for reminding me of the difference.


- now as has been said this could just be a cover-up for his bad spelling, but do we always have to assume the worst of people?
OK, it's a major reach to try to understand the justification, given a very limited amount of information. And who knows, maybe it worked? Hell, maybe even "making deliberate mistakes to break the ice" works for dancing too... I still think it's weird though.


Anyway... at the end of the day I think this is an example of opinions, and I think we have a fair idea of where each other stands - and it would seem to me that probably this professor stands on the side of "spelling is not as important as contribution."
Another good point - stop it, you're scaring me :eek:

Yes, spelling is not as important as contribution. And that applies to this Forum as well.

Let's all just chill out, the sun is shining and we can all be happy :flower:

And in the spirit of love and tenderness, I'd like to share a tip for writing posts.

Always re-read it after posting, it's amazing how many mistakes you'll pick up on and the Save button is easy to click on.

[ducasi]

Oh, and I want world peace as well. And a pony to go with Ducasi's.

I'll have a pony as well please. And a plastic rocket.
Sorry, I got the pony first... :)

[DianaS]

OK, I could me maligning the guy, there could be a valid reason for making mistakes - but "appealing to your audience by screwing up" doesn't seem sensible to me.

Well every time you open your mouth then, speak clearly, articulately choose your words carefully, use sentences rather than phrases, and don't mispronounce any word ever. I mean EVER
cas basically you owe it to the person that you communicate with not to make mistakes, or errors, or be imprecise.

Gosh David haven;t you ever heard of text chat...
You text, you chat, its more informal like speach eh?
Sad git

[David Franklin]

Is it any good ?Debatable. It finds six errors in your post (excluding that it doesn't like McJester). It doesn't give a good suggestion for 'malious' - which is slightly odd given that if you type it into www.google.com, it asks if you meant 'malicious'. And I think your use of "someone's" is OK, but Google doesn't like it. I think the tool is correct and makes good suggestions for the other 4, although two are fairly pedantic ('OK v.s. Ok' and 'English v.s. english'). I noticed one homonym in your post ('there' v.s. 'their') - unsurprisingly the spell check doesn't spot this.

To be honest, other than 'malious', there was nothing in your post that made me pause and think "OK, what does he mean?", so I had no problem with it.

As others have said, grammar and punctuation are more likely to cause genuine problems than the occasional misspelling.

[Barry Shnikov]

Well, let's give it a try.

Who can spell 'synecdoche'?

[Andy McGregor]

Well, let's give it a try.

Who can spell 'synecdoche'?Not me. How's it spelt? :confused:

[MartinHarper]

Hell, maybe even "making deliberate mistakes to break the ice" works for dancing too....

I've seen folks who make it work. Kinda like dancing meets slapstick.

[under par]

I reelly thinc you all are takin this topick two seriouslie.

Chil out and enjoy yer danzin.:wink:

[David Bailey]

Well every time you open your mouth then, speak clearly, articulately choose your words carefully, use sentences rather than phrases, and don't mispronounce any word ever. I mean EVER
cas basically you owe it to the person that you communicate with not to make mistakes, or errors, or be imprecise.
Well, I try not to mispronounce words on porpoise, yes...

Seriously, whilst I slagged the guy off, did it actually work? If so, I'd be interested - my experience and intuition tells me it's a dumb thing to do, but I could be wrong (it happens, occasionally).

[fletch]

I got 8 - can anyone beat that? Do I get a prize? :yum:
Is there something wrong with it?:rolleyes:

[Heather]

I got 8 - can anyone beat that? Do I get a prize? :yum:

OK 'satrarmase' !! Where are the spelling mistakes ??

:hug:
Heather.

[Lee]

No
No
No
No
No
No
No

I do this while at work and do it quckly adn wiv out cheking vot i wright :whistle:

So NO

Anyone that does care can bogger ofF, hehe

Lee

[Clive Long]

OK 'satrarmase' !! Where are the spelling mistakes ??

:hug:
Heather.
Hmmmmm ....

I'll build on that.

What do I mean when I write the word "confusculate"?


CRL

[Msfab]

Life is too short to worry about incorrect spelling. :rolleyes:


I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it denos't mtater in waht oredr the ltetres in a wrod are, the olny iprnoatmt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!

[David Bailey]

OK 'satrarmase' !! Where are the spelling mistakes ??

:hug:
Heather.

Well, Stewart didn't specify spelling mistakes, just mistakes. If I were reviewing this text:


Reading this totally irritates me!!!!!
What a pile of 'sihte' to utilise the above example of bad spelling
I agree with Mr McGregor spelling is important.
Grammar is important.
Those primary children on 'The Hard Spell' or whatever it was called, on TV during the holidays would put many a Forum member to shame.
:hug:
Heather,
x

I'd say you had four extraneous exclamation marks, one missing full-stop after "spelling", one missing "that" after McGregor, the deliberate "sihte", one missing comma after holidays, and one extraneous comma after "Heather", makes 6. If you count each extra "!" as 1, that in fact works out as 9. And I'm still waiting for my prize. :tears:

The point I'm trying to make is that anyone can find errors in any post, given a sufficiently-high level of pedantry.

The only significant errors are those which lead to ineffective communications.
And yes, spelling mistakes can lead to significant errors of this type, but so can a lot of other things.

And focussing on spelling to the exclusion of effectiveness is taking the easy way out - as judging effectiveness requires, well, judgement.

[Andy McGregor]

I'd say you had four extraneous exclamation marks, one missing full-stop after "spelling", one missing "that" after McGregor, the deliberate "sihte", one missing comma after holidays, and one extraneous comma after "Heather", makes 6. If you count each extra "!" as 1, that in fact works out as 9. And I'm still waiting for my prize. :tears:

The point I'm trying to make is that anyone can find errors in any post, given a sufficiently-high level of pedantry.

The only significant errors are those which lead to ineffective communications.
And yes, spelling mistakes can lead to significant errors of this type, but so can a lot of other things.

And focussing on spelling to the exclusion of effectiveness is taking the easy way out - as judging effectiveness requires, well, judgement.I believe that the spelling mistakes of Gadget are due to lazyness and a little bit of his belief that his spelling shows his particular character :confused:

Spelling mistakes show you make mistakes with your spelling. They can result in ineffective communication and, in these days of spelcheck etc, they can be avoided. Therefore it in nobody's fault but your own if your spelling is incorrect. And it is nobody's fault but your own if people notice your bad spelling ...

[ducasi]

The point I'm trying to make is that anyone can find errors in any post, given a sufficiently-high level of pedantry. I disagree.

[ducasi]

I disagree.
:innocent: :wink:

[David Bailey]

I disagree.
There should be a small "h" in the first "Here" of your sig.

:na:

[ducasi]

There should be a small "h" in the first "Hear" of your sig.

:na:
First it says "Here", not "Hear", the first "h" is small, and the part in brackets is the next line in the lyrics, and so will usually start with a capital letter...

:na:

[David Bailey]

First it says "Here", not "Hear"
See - easy, isn't it?

I win! :clap:

[ducasi]

See - easy, isn't it?

I win! :clap:
So you can find errors, but it doesn't matter if they are imagined? OK...

[Heather]

It's obviously OK for people like Stewart 38 to criticize people for mistakes that he himself has made in his own posts. Notably, the use of two exclamation marks in post #42 of this very thread.
A case of the pot calling the kettle black, perhaps?

:hug:
Heather

[bigdjiver]

I am interested in ideas and opinions. The quality of presentation is a very secondary consideration. Language evolves, and error is one component of evolution. Txt speak is going to happen.

[Gadget]

Cor, lots of discussion. :D

A few things I would like to point out about my initial post...
- I wrote and posted about the topic in question, then gave my views on it as my own views. "Spelling" was posted as the topic to discuss and debate - Not my spelling in particular: apologies if I was unclear on that.

- I am not the only "sinner" (and only rated as the 'worst' due to long term exposure). I stand and take the flack because however unjustified I feel it may be, I cannot deny the truth behind the fact that my spelling is... more 'creative' than most :whistle:

- The post and poll options were intended to be ironic and humorous (They made me smile anyway)

Since my views on it seem to have became target for public chastisement, I feel some further explanation should be forthcoming on why I have come to my stance on the topic:
Andy was partially correct in his analysis of the psyche behind my attitude to spelling - I don't really care about it. {shhh... he never reads past the first paragraph of my posts, so if you don't tell him he'll never know :wink:}
The story begins in early childhood...

Reading in school came quite easily to me. Forming the letters and joining them all up was just drawing, and I was good at that. Getting them in the right order was a nightmare. All my school books were a mass of red pen correcting spelling errors. Secondary school was the same, no matter what the subject. I am neither proud or ashamed of this: it was a fact. I transposed letters and digits all the time (especially in maths - and that made it really hard)
My higher english teacher told me something that lifted a huge burden: "Spelling is not that important; what examiners are looking for is how you construct sentences, how you present your text, the way you use the language and what you have to say. " I could do that. And did. And it worked.

What most folks fail to realise is that I do actually catch the majority of spelling errors before they are posted. But some I simply cannot see. Some I miss. Some I am sure are wrong, but turn out to be correct. I miss-read things easily {These vans with "shoplifter" on the side of them had me worried for a while :sick:} and often missread an incorrect spelling as if it is correct. It is part of me.
As I have said before: the forum is chatting in the pub with some mates about something we are all passionate about. There are no posh hats, cloth napkins and raised pinkeys - Here I can kick back, relax, have fun and join in some friendly banter. I like to think of everyone here are friends, and I would hope for their tollerance and forgiveness.:flower: After all, that's what friends do... otherwise Shreck is a meaningless film :what::tears:

My not using a spell check is about as far from being a 'slur' or 'dissrespectfull' to any reader as you can get. I am comfortable and confident enough in everyone's company that I feel no pressure to be anything other than myself. :worthy: to all the contributers and long may it continue.:flower:

[ducasi]

The story begins in early childhood...

Reading in school came quite easily to me. Forming the letters and joining them all up was just drawing, and I was good at that. Getting them in the right order was a nightmare. All my school books were a mass of red pen correcting spelling errors. Secondary school was the same, no matter what the subject. I am neither proud or ashamed of this: it was a fact. I transposed letters and digits all the time (especially in maths - and that made it really hard)
My higher english teacher told me something that lifted a huge burden: "Spelling is not that important; what examiners are looking for is how you construct sentences, how you present your text, the way you use the language and what you have to say. " I could do that. And did. And it worked.

What most folks fail to realise is that I do actually catch the majority of spelling errors before they are posted. But some I simply cannot see. Some I miss. Some I am sure are wrong, but turn out to be correct. I miss-read things easily {These vans with "shoplifter" on the side of them had me worried for a while :sick:} and often missread an incorrect spelling as if it is correct. It is part of me. This is screaming out "dyslexia" to me...

So, Gadget, are you dyslexic?

[David Franklin]

Andy was partially correct in his analysis of the psyche behind my attitude to spelling - I don't really care about it. In which case, the question I have to ask is why is your spelling (typing) so much better than it used to be? Two years ago, you often appeared to be DiCoaK (Drunk in Charge of a Keyboard) - it didn't look like you couldn't spell - it looked like you couldn't type. If yuio kown waht I meam? Whereas I rarely notice you make a mistake these days.


{shhh... he never reads past the first paragraph of my posts, so if you don't tell him he'll never know :wink:}If I can suggest something: I think the forum isn't the easiest place to read long posts. Something I find helps is using lots of white space. When you put your paragraphs immediately below each other (as you did in your previous post), it all starts looking like one long meandering stream of consciousness with nowhere obvious to take a breath.


As I have said before: the forum is chatting in the pub with some mates about something we are all passionate about. Here I can kick back, relax, have fun and join in some friendly banter. People use the pub analogy, but it is only an analogy. In the pub, do you often stand up and make a 10 minute speech to the entire audience? And if you did, and you wanted people to pay attention, do you think it would work better if you planned what you wanted to say before hand and spoke clearly, or if you rambled and slurred your words?

Obviously different writing styles can be appropiate, depending on what you have to say. If you only write a sentence in txt spk, it may irritate me, but it's not a big deal. But if you write a full page in txt spk, there is very little chance I'm going to read past the first line or two.

[MartinHarper]

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. (etc)

Another way of showing respect for others is to read their posts before posting your own pearls of wisdom.

[Lee]

Another way of showing respect for others is to read their posts before posting your own pearls of wisdom.

I think another way of showing respect for others is to read their posts before posting your own pearls of wisdom. :whistle: :whistle:

Lee

[LMC]

Oh good, that means I can save myself loads of time if I want to say something stupid as usual

[Rachel]

Not adding a huge amount to the debate, but just my opinion ...

Bad spelling, grammar and punctuation really bug me in work or formal situations but, like TiggsTours, I know I'm rather too anal on this.

Informally, such as on the forum, it doesn't bother me so much - and I rather like some of the Gadgetisms I see ...

However, I can only read the forum at work and have to skim read threads quickly. So if something is not immediately clear because of the way it's written, it means I just don't bother to read it at all.

Rachel

Edited to correct my spelling of TiggsTours - sorry!

[Gadget]

In which case, the question I have to ask is why is your spelling (typing) so much better than it used to be? Because I can type faster now and I'm more practiced at writing/reading posts. I can make better use of keyboard shortcuts and navigation than I could then. And there is so much more on the forum now that I am very selective about what I read and what I actually post on.


If I can suggest something: I think the forum isn't the easiest place to read long posts. Something I find helps is using lots of white space. I agree; very good practice and something I advocate. I normally do it for longer posts - in this case I thought that with the preamble, it would make it easier for a reader skip that bit if they wanted.


People use the pub analogy, but it is only an analogy. In the pub, do you often stand up and make a 10 minute speech to the entire audience?:whistle: no? :innocent:
The only reason you don't is because people would interrupt or turn away - here you have a captive audience that can only have input once you have finished talking :devil:

[David Franklin]

The only reason you don't is because people would interrupt or turn away - here you have a captive audience that can only have input once you have finished talking :devil:I hate to break it to you, but it's not just at the pub that people can turn away...

[Gadget]

Yea, but here you're blissfully ignorant if you are preaching to an empty table or the whole room.

[bigdjiver]

:devil: Errors can be a great aid to creative thinking. Competition theory dictates that one institution will end up owning everything, which gives some credence to the "Big Bank" theory of creation.

[pjay]

Always re-read it after posting, it's amazing how many mistakes you'll pick up on and the Save button is easy to click on.

Even better, I hear, is to read it one word at a time, backwards.

(Dare I admit that I tend to do this for shorter posts, but get lazy on longer ones? Particularly when I'm writing interspersed with someone else. :) )

[Trousers]

Is it any good ?

I'm Dyslexic ( something malious about how hard that is to spell ) and find that spell checkers help but quite often I can stump them, took me 2 years to find out necessary had a "c" in it :grin:

As long as people can understand what you are typing then to me it just being pedantic, verging on anal to get upset about spelling/grammer/punctuation.

Ok so I'm biased on the subject as I have poor written english skills, but what is the point in getting upset / disregarding someone's input if they have problems with written English, some very intellegent people aren't so hot on this, so should there comments be disregarded.

Basically you can guess that I'm with Gadget on this one.

:hug:
McJester

<hr>
" It's a might poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word " - Andrew Jackson

Enuff already!

Like McJ above I have a reading difficulty mines called Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome (Irlen Syndrome) and with that I have difficulty absorbing information from the written page. So to me the only important thing in an informal (Note the Informal) environment of the Forum is getting information across.
As long as a point of view is stated it matters not whether the grammar was acurate or the spelling correct - did the point of view get understood. Simple spelling mistakes cannot be held responsible for failures there surely. We all make typo's and backspace over and start again some times we miss the typo and issue the posting but we all know the rules and surely can understand that for example RECIEVE means receive.

All this talk about spell checkers is bumkum too - to be offered a list of words that may be the word you were trying to spell is pretty useless and i guess there is a lot of 'well its at the top of the list; that must be the one I want' going on.

It would be nice to live in a world where everyone spoke well (won't say proper as that's subjective), where we could all write down acurately all the words we know and we could use the grammar rules we should all know correctly. Personally I would love my kids to pronounce 'TH' with their tongues not their lips as I am thucking thed up with it coming out as 'F' but all I can do is continue to keep my use of the language correct in my dealings with them and hope they will learn. If I belittle them where does that get me? they don't learn and I have built walls that will then become bigger and bigger barriers to our communication.

So lets chill out on the spelling and grammar there are times and places to be pedantic - divorce proceedings, letters of complaint, letters of praise but these are formal important documents - nothing said in here is going to be of life or death import (I hope) so relax - write what you want HOW you want to write it.

[Lee]

No one (notice the error hehe) can beat that so don't try.

I call this the end of the thread. :clap: :clap:

I dare anyone to add to it........:mad:

Lee

[Msfab]

No one (notice the error hehe) can beat that so don't try.

I call this the end of the thread. :clap: :clap:

I dare anyone to add to it........:mad:

Lee

ad wot?

[Baruch]

I blame it on the weird way we were taught english in school. We learnt a method called ITA. Not sure what the purpose of this was but, it certainly buggered up our education.
Same here. I remember learning to read and write using ITA (which, for those who don't know, was an artificial, totally phonetic alphabet), then having to learn to read and write all over again when I came to 'real' books and writing. What an absolutely stupid system! It was very confusing. Add to that an almost complete lack of formal grammar teaching during the 1970s and 1980s when I was at school, and it's a wonder that I can spell and write as well as I can. Most people who went to school with me and went through the same system have appalling spelling.

Correct spelling is important to me. I don't tend to go on at people who have bad spelling, as life is too short, but bad spelling irritates me. That doesn't mean I'm "up my own @rse" or whatever - it just means that I value correct English. I'm conscious that I'm not perfect myself, particularly where grammar is concerned, but that's the way it is.

As an aside, I'm a primary school teacher, and it never ceases to amaze me just how poor many teachers' spelling and grammar really is. What hope is there for the children if the teachers can't even get it right? Mind you, many of them were subjected to ITA as children too. :sad:

[Baruch]

Well, let's give it a try.

Who can spell 'synecdoche'?
I can: συνεκδοχη

[Heather M]

I reelly thinc you all are takin this topick two seriouslie.

Chil out and enjoy yer danzin.:wink:

:yeah:

[Baruch]

Same here. I remember learning to read and write using ITA (which, for those who don't know, was an artificial, totally phonetic alphabet
And for those who are wondering what ITA looks like, take a look (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ita.htm).

[David Bailey]

And for those who are wondering what ITA looks like, take a look (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ita.htm).
Interesting link - I thank God I was never subjected to ITA schooling, by the way.

Does anyone else see a parallel between ITA for language and Ceroc for dancing?

In other words, they both look like methods designed to get you "up and running" as quickly as possible, but they both can cause problems when you want to make the transition to "doing it properly".

[Baruch]

The attached pic of an ITA text says:

Once upon a time the beautiful daughter
of a great magician wanted more pearls to
put among her treasures. "Look through the
centre of the moon when it is blue," said
her mother in answer to her question.
"You might find your heart's desire."

[Barry Shnikov]

The attached pic of an ITA text says:
It's really difficult to imagine how such a hare-brained system could get invented, never mind accepted to the point where it was actually taught.

I'm not quite sure why, but I'm reminded of a story on Watchdog or similar a while ago about a company charging £5000 to 'inventors' to carry out a feasibility and marketing study of their invention, blah blah.

This chap invented a 'glow-in-the-dark' panel to sit under light switches so you could see where they were in the dark. Over a year and £5000 later, despite the company's study and the 2" thick report they supplied him with, he was getting nowhere. No-one was interested in manufacturing it.

Then one day he was wandering around B&Q and he saw 'glow-in-the-dark' light switch panels. They'd been on the market for yonks.

You would think he might have thought of visiting DIY shops and asking about such a product before spending £5000 on the feasibility study...

[thewacko]

I fink tht bad speeling and; improper use of punctuations markings are very improoper, txt tlk shd b band and only prper use of the english language should be used at allll times especially around 7.30 when its time for the old earl grey:what: :eek:
:mad: ohh:eek: :sick:
and as for the smiley:) thingummy whatsit:eek: :mad: :mad: :mad:

so :cheers: for now tfb for me, after me cup of whorelicks:drool: :eek:

[Whitebeard]

..... me cup of whorelicks .....

That's a bad habit you've got into there wacky boy !!

[thewacko]

That's a bad habit you've got into there wacky boy !!
:( i know it costs a fortune:whistle:

will have to try drinking hot chocolate "you sexy thing":what:

[Whitebeard]

:( i know it costs a fortune:whistle:

will have to try drinking hot chocolate "you sexy thing":what:

I hear that some girls really 'melt' at the mention of chocolate.