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Salsa guy
1st-January-2006, 07:34 PM
Ok guys, this is an old chestnut but I would like to hear some sensible discussion on this matter:

Why are there so many married women coming to Ceroc? I get the impression that around 90% of women at most venues are atttached and 90% of men are single looking for a girlfriend or even a date. When I started six years ago it was comparatively easy to meet single girls, go out on dates, make friends or even girfriends. Now its thanks for the dance, got to get back to the annoyed looking hushband/boyfriend.

Is it because too many men are going now and all they want to do is rub themselves against the women ??

El Salsero Gringo
1st-January-2006, 07:40 PM
Is it because too many men are going now and all they want to do is rub themselves against the women ??On the contrary - if one takes any notice of most of the other threads on this Forum, there aren't *enough* men going.

Perhaps the solution to getting more men to dance is to get more *single* women to go to Ceroc?

robd
1st-January-2006, 07:43 PM
Why are there so many married women coming to Ceroc?

Perhaps they enjoy dancing for dancing's sake rather than as a prelude to anything else.

WittyBird
1st-January-2006, 07:44 PM
Perhaps they enjoy dancing for dancing's sake rather than as a prelude to anything else.
:yeah: well said

jacksondonut
1st-January-2006, 07:55 PM
Perhaps they enjoy dancing for dancing's sake rather than as a prelude to anything else.

For me, it is just the dancing, as quoted above... if I make a new friend, even better, but that is all..:clap:

I suppose it may be a physical high you get from doing aerobics or any other exercise that you enjoy.. its energetic, fun and for most of the time for me i get to laugh a lot.. i just love to have fun...:rofl:

It is nice though, if the guy is appealing, but really it doesnt matter in the slightest as long as he can smile and have fun:D

Also, I feel on the whole it is a safe environment (not like a nightclub) and rarely feel uncomfortable, or worried that my dance partner will behave inappropriately.. that is priceless..

By the way, Im a girl and hope I havent hijacked your thread...:flower:

Salsa guy
1st-January-2006, 08:04 PM
I do understand why women (married or not) do like coming to Ceroc but let us be realistic. If you are a single man and straight you are more than likely coming to dance to meet a girl. What is wrong with that? Perfectly normal as I see it.

WittyBird
1st-January-2006, 08:10 PM
I do understand why women (married or not) do like coming to Ceroc but let us be realistic. If you are a single man and straight you are more than likely coming to dance to meet a girl. What is wrong with that? Perfectly normal as I see it.
What a load of........
I personally believe people come to dance not pull :rolleyes:

TheTramp
1st-January-2006, 08:40 PM
I do understand why women (married or not) do like coming to Ceroc but let us be realistic. If you are a single man and straight you are more than likely coming to dance to meet a girl. What is wrong with that? Perfectly normal as I see it.
Nope. That's just you....

I go to dance.

El Salsero Gringo
1st-January-2006, 09:32 PM
Do I detect a slightly (or more than slightly) "holier-than-thou" attitude from some pure souls towards anyone who does come to Ceroc to meet girls?

People dance for lots of reasons; single men wanting to meet single girls is a natural state of affairs, and Ceroc can be an excellent place to do that.

Speaking only for myself, I'd do what I could to encourage anyone who feels Ceroc would benefit them - for pretty-much whatever reason - to come along. Not jump down their throats.

frodo
1st-January-2006, 09:32 PM
...
Why are there so many married women coming to Ceroc? I get the impression that around 90% of women at most venues are atttached and 90% of men are single looking for a girlfriend or even a date. When I started six years ago it was comparatively easy to meet single girls, go out on dates, make friends or even girfriends. Now its thanks for the dance, got to get back to the annoyed looking hushband/boyfriend.
Perhaps the question could be turned around, why relatively fewer married men.

If we discount people who come as a couple ( they clearly don't matter :) ).


One reason, I think that is that it is relatively easy for a single man to take up dancing ( among other things it is much easier to keep quiet, atleast until a certain level of proficiency has been reached ).

Ladies seem to often come in groups; so married or single may matter less - perhaps it is a group activity.


I do remember overhearing one lady who'd just got married, and just started dancing because she wanted a separate activity. It would be interesting to know if this is a common motivation.

Andy McGregor
1st-January-2006, 09:41 PM
I do understand why women (married or not) do like coming to Ceroc but let us be realistic. If you are a single man and straight you are more than likely coming to dance to meet a girl. What is wrong with that? Perfectly normal as I see it.No, this is not normal. If all you want to do is meet a girl you should go speed dating or join a singles club. If you'd like to learn to dance then you should go to dance class. We occasionally get people coming to our classes on the pull. If they achieve their objective we never see them again - and if they don't achieve their objective we never see them again. We don't need people who come dancing with the sole objective of pulling :mad:

We do get people who pair up at dance class. Just like you get people who pair up in any other situation where the sexes mix. Salsa guy is complaining that there are no single girls at his dance classes. They're a dance class. Expect to learn to dance. Any other expectation is one you've made up for yourself. You might as well complain that you don't get taught the rules of badminton at a cookery night class :confused:

Having said that, in our area we get plenty of single women. In fact, their usual complaint is that there are no eligible single guys. There are single guys: it's just the "eligible" that needs fixing. I think a mix of alcohol and low lighting might help :devil:

jivecat
1st-January-2006, 09:42 PM
I do remember overhearing one lady who'd just got married, and just started dancing because she wanted a separate activity. It would be interesting to know if this is a common motivation.

I do know several ladies who prefer to keep husband/boyfriend separate from Ceroc because they like having an activity they can do independently from him - not because they're planning to get up to anything on the sly!

frodo
1st-January-2006, 09:47 PM
Why are there so many married women coming to Ceroc? I get the impression that around 90% of women at most venues are atttached and 90% of men are single .... Now its thanks for the dance, got to get back to the annoyed looking hushband/boyfriend.
In some ways being virtually single (boyfriend/husband isn't there) is better than the real thing, for someone you dance with regularly, as they're less likely to stop dancing because they've met someone.

ChrisA
1st-January-2006, 09:57 PM
I would like to hear some sensible discussion on this matter:

Ok, then...


I get the impression that around 90% of women at most venues are atttached and 90% of men are single looking for a girlfriend or even a date.
Could you elaborate a bit on exactly where you get this impression?


When I started six years ago it was comparatively easy to meet single girls, go out on dates, make friends or even girfriends. Now its thanks for the dance, got to get back to the annoyed looking hushband/boyfriend.

Where are all these annoyed looking husbands/boyfriends?

I've danced with lots of people for years, and never once have I encountered this. If you're just dancing with them, why are they looking annoyed?


Is it because too many men are going now and all they want to do is rub themselves against the women ??
Is it your experience that the guys you know that dance, just do this?

I think you might find that if so, it's unusual, at least going by the people who are interested enough in dancing to hang out on a dance forum.

We've talked on many occasions about how representative of the Ceroc world at large the forum is or isn't... maybe your experiences are different from what a lot of us are used to.

So tell us more :)

killingtime
1st-January-2006, 09:59 PM
Do I detect a slightly (or more than slightly) "holier-than-thou" attitude from some pure souls towards anyone who does come to Ceroc to meet girls?

I'm afraid I have to agree with that attitude though.

Since I met my girlfriend and ceroc I can hardly say that I didn't see ceroc as somewhere I might have met someone it's just not my primary reason for going. Furthermore it was outside of ceroc where we actually decided to go dating.

I think people who are just there to pull have very little interest in dancing and will often disrupt classes with attempting to chat up their partners. Most importantly I feel that people would feel less "safe" if the way they danced was constantly taken as a sign of interest. Occasionally there is a singles night that descends on Ceroc in Edinburgh which does have a lot of people doing just that.

I haven't paid that much attention but I wouldn't say there was a higher than normal ratio of married women in ceroc compared to the average population.

Andreas
1st-January-2006, 10:08 PM
It is right, there is nothing wrong with guys looking for girls and vice versa. Certainly dance is a good environment to do that because one spends a lot of time in the other person's space. BUT ...


When I started six years ago it was comparatively easy to meet single girls, go out on dates, make friends or even girfriends. Now its thanks for the dance, got to get back to the annoyed looking hushband/boyfriend.

Crikey! Are you trying to make sure you are not going to get any dances with single girls in future? What you wrote there sounds like finding dates was your only intention. Worse even, you are calling the process, hence the girls EASY! We all know that most Salsa venues are meat markets. I personally find it rather refreshing to go to an MJ dance and NOT have the feeling that I am being taxed for potential abilities in bed.

If I was to judge you only by those words, I'd think that you are one of those persons who make a lot of single girls and even me as a guy change venue. I so much hope you just phrased that accidentally the way you did!


Is it because too many men are going now and all they want to do is rub themselves against the women ??

Judging by the above paragraph you'd be one of them.

------------------------

The reason why I think MJ is well-attended by married/attached ladies is because it is easy enough to learn to get their respective partners into it. Dancing with a stranger is nice and can be great fun, but dancing with your partner beats it hands down ... if the music is right :D

Furthermore, married women are more concerned about the meatmarket syndrome of Salsa venues, hence they feel saver.

:flower:

El Salsero Gringo
1st-January-2006, 10:51 PM
No, this is not normal. If all you want to do is meet a girl you should go speed dating or join a singles club. If you'd like to learn to dance then you should go to dance class. We occasionally get people coming to our classes on the pull. If they achieve their objective we never see them again - and if they don't achieve their objective we never see them again. We don't need people who come dancing with the sole objective of pulling :mad: There's a perfectly acceptable middle ground, where you can enjoy BOTH dancing and meeting single people of the opposite sex. I don't think it's wise - or constructive - to lay down 'good' and 'bad' reasons for taking up dancing. The more so because someone who does start dancing 'just' to meet girls might very well find that they enjoy the dancing enough to keep it for its own sake - and behold - another regular customer for you, and another committed dancer for your venue.


I think people who are just there to pull have very little interest in dancing and will often disrupt classes with attempting to chat up their partners.... a breathtakingly inaccurate generalisation...
Most importantly I feel that people would feel less "safe" if the way they danced was constantly taken as a sign of interest.... and beside the point since there are plenty of ways to signal (dis)interest on and off the dance floor without altering your style of dance. Anyone who's been to Ceroc more than twice learns the difference.

I'm rather disappointed at the snooty way people in this thread look down on those "non-committed" Cerocers who come for a while to meet people, *don't* think that dance is the be-all and end-all of existence, and don't take things quite as seriously as they might. Remember - their entrance money speaks as loudly as yours, and without them Ceroc would be about as successful as a chocolate teapot.

TheTramp
1st-January-2006, 11:04 PM
Do I detect a slightly (or more than slightly) "holier-than-thou" attitude from some pure souls towards anyone who does come to Ceroc to meet girls?
Not at all. Salsa guy just made a completely inaccurate generalisation, based presumably on what he does (hence, I made a similar on back at him).

I don't see a problem with people who come to pull - provided that they do it in a way that isn't going to upset the ladies there (or indeed, if they are ladies, upset the guys - though I do understand that this is less likely :whistle: ).

And I've dated some ladies that I've met at Ceroc. So could hardly be holier than thou....

However, what I said. I come to dance. Anything else might be a bonus :flower:

Andreas
1st-January-2006, 11:07 PM
I'm rather disappointed at the snooty way people in this thread look down on those "non-committed" Cerocers who come for a while to meet people, *don't* think that dance is the be-all and end-all of existence, and don't take things quite as seriously as they might. Remember - their entrance money speaks as loudly as yours, and without them Ceroc would be about as successful as a chocolate teapot.

Neither do I think 'dance' is all that should be going on.In an earlier thread I have posted that probably the majority of dancers are in one way or another looking for a partner for life, or part of that. So losing them would mean ruining the business. However, if picking up a b**k is the only motivation, which is how he came across, as he used plural, IS bad. Just imagine what it does to the dignity of girls he as a guy has 'gone through' or vice versa of guys that have fallen for a femme fatale. It poisons the atmosphere.

Scotch Bonnet
1st-January-2006, 11:09 PM
Ok guys, this is an old chestnut but I would like to hear some sensible discussion on this matter:

Why are there so many married women coming to Ceroc? I get the impression that around 90% of women at most venues are atttached and 90% of men are single looking for a girlfriend or even a date. When I started six years ago it was comparatively easy to meet single girls, go out on dates, make friends or even girfriends. Now its thanks for the dance, got to get back to the annoyed looking hushband/boyfriend.

Is it because too many men are going now and all they want to do is rub themselves against the women ??
Why wouldn't there be so many married women,Ceroc (contrary to popular belief)is not a singles club.If you do meet someone then 'Fandabbydosy" but if not ,so what !!!
Dancing is a good fun hobby and is to a lot of women I have spoken to ,their keep fit night,beats sweating in the gym !!
Maybe you should think about a good on line dating agency !!

TheTramp
1st-January-2006, 11:15 PM
I'm rather disappointed at the snooty way people in this thread look down on those "non-committed" Cerocers who come for a while to meet people, *don't* think that dance is the be-all and end-all of existence, and don't take things quite as seriously as they might.

Another one of these I think:


... a breathtakingly inaccurate generalisation......

For me, Salsa Guy has come across in a negative way. Quite agree with what Andreas has just said. Quite understand why people would want to post to make sure that it doesn't appear to be quite the meat market that Salsa Guy implies.

There is some common ground in the middle. I don't think that anyone particularly has had a 'holier than thou' attitude. Indeed, I'd say that the only people with extreme views so far, are Salsa Guy, and yourself.... :flower:

Heather
2nd-January-2006, 12:16 AM
What a load of........
I personally believe people come to dance not pull :rolleyes:

:yeah: :yeah:

I'm a single woman and I go to Ceroc to DANCE!!! I certainly haven't noticed multitudes of single men when I've been at any Ceroc parties - but then I'm not looking - I'm there to dance.
If I wanted to pull, I'd go to some smoke filled, drink fuelled night club,of which there are many here in Dundee, but quite frankly I like the 'safe' environment of Ceroc, where no-one is talking to my cleavage instead of my face!!:sick:
Well said Wittybird- we think along the same lines !!:worthy:

:hug: :kiss:
Heather,
xx

Tazmanian Devil
2nd-January-2006, 12:26 AM
Ok guys, this is an old chestnut but I would like to hear some sensible discussion on this matter:

Why are there so many married women coming to Ceroc? I get the impression that around 90% of women at most venues are atttached and 90% of men are single looking for a girlfriend or even a date. When I started six years ago it was comparatively easy to meet single girls, go out on dates, make friends or even girfriends. Now its thanks for the dance, got to get back to the annoyed looking hushband/boyfriend.

Is it because too many men are going now and all they want to do is rub themselves against the women ??
Appologies seeing as your new n all but I have never heard such a load of ....
I am a single girl and have been dancing for 4 years was single when i started have had a couple of short relationships since then (Both non dancing guys might I add).
Has it not occured to you that people start dancing to actually learn something new? Or because a friend has been babbling on about how great it is? :rolleyes:
Yes O.K there are one or two guys that are in it for the chance to get close to women but that by no means is a majority more like the occassional chancer.
I know alot of guys at dancing some single some not and they have the same perspective as me IT'S A DANCE, IT MEANS NOTHING!!

Dreadful Scathe
2nd-January-2006, 12:37 AM
A jive night is a social event. Why are people bothering to highlight the fact that a social event is a likely place for people to socialise and meet people? Sometimes that does mean you meet a partner. Wow. Really ? People can meet other people in social situations and end up in with a partner. Well I never. Shiver me timbers. Whoda thunkit. :)

RogerR
2nd-January-2006, 12:48 AM
IT'S A DANCE, IT MEANS NOTHING!!
Well if it means nothing dont waste your own time or anyone elses.

I've danced for a while now (19-20 years) and I've made friends by various degrees people who's phone number I remember, Girls who's wedding I've been a guest at, people who I remember and converse with at a gig. I've seen several couples meet and marry. If I make a new friend of any degree then dancing is good, if I dont, its bad.

However respectable dance evenings are places in real life surrounded by real people, of all descriptions - NOT a parade of hunting/huntable singles.

Piglet
2nd-January-2006, 01:09 AM
Why are there so many married women coming to Ceroc?
Because there are no rules to say that they can't :flower:

I don't know if there are masses of married/attached women coming to ceroc versus married/attached men. When I think about the women I know who dance in Aberdeen - most of them to my knowledge, are single actually. Off the top of my head I can only think of 3 who come without their men (one being me cos I can't persuade him to) and I know 3 men who come without their wives (although one of those does have a wife who dances but she has a bad back at the moment).

Are you sure there are so many married women coming to ceroc? Or maybe that's the excuse they are giving you :rofl: (sorry couldn't resist)

Andy McGregor
2nd-January-2006, 01:28 AM
Are you sure there are so many married women coming to ceroc? Or maybe that's the excuse they are giving you :rofl: (sorry couldn't resist):rofl:

killingtime
2nd-January-2006, 03:04 AM
Most importantly I feel that people would feel less "safe" if the way they danced was constantly taken as a sign of interest.
and beside the point since there are plenty of ways to signal (dis)interest on and off the dance floor without altering your style of dance. Anyone who's been to Ceroc more than twice learns the difference.

My apologies, a point poorly made. I'll try and elaborate but maybe I should have left it at my last post. I like the atmosphere I get at ceroc. I tried salsa a while after I did ceroc. There was less emphasis on dancing with as many people as you can and asking people to dance. When I asked a girl to dance (I was also new) she seemed to be thinking if I wanted something more. Asking someone for a dance wasn't just about the dance anymore. Effectively there was a closer resemblance to a night club (where asking someone you don't know to dance is generally taken as a sign of interest) than to the ceroc nights I had. I'd worry that, if a ceroc night is filled with a bunch of men looking for single women that a similar atmosphere might develop.

Looks like I'll have to go to that third lesson as well.

Tazmanian Devil
2nd-January-2006, 11:59 AM
I've danced for a while now (19-20 years) and I've made friends by various degrees people who's phone number I remember, Girls who's wedding I've been a guest at, people who I remember and converse with at a gig. I've seen several couples meet and marry. If I make a new friend of any degree then dancing is good, if I dont, its bad.
:really: Who hasn't. It's a social event at which you make new friends I have many dancers numbers and see them outside of dancing as I am sure many people who have been dancing longer than 6 weeks have.


Well if it means nothing dont waste your own time or anyone elses.
:angry: Some how, Not quite sure how, but some how you seem to have misunderstood what I have said. :angry: I absolutely adore DANCING if I didn't I wouldn't dance 7 days a week.:angry: The point is just because you dance with someone wheter it's up close and personal or not it doesn't mean you want to start a romantic relationship with them. If that was the case I would have alot of relationships going on with both male and female dancers. :rolleyes:

LMC
2nd-January-2006, 12:02 PM
I started Ceroc because as a beginner salsera who could be seen sideways on, I had no chance of getting dances in freestyle. I started dancing both as a way to keep fit and to meet people (in order of priority).

Dancing is sociable and I love it. Because I'm single and love dancing, then yes, I would like to meet "someone" who also dances - and even though I'm blonde, I've worked out that the place with the highest chance of meeting them is probably a dance night. But it's not the be-all and end-all, as salsa guy seems to be implying.

The forum isn't really representative of the wider dance world - we're all dance mad. IRL, I think many single men start dancing to meet a girl. Most of them either start to enjoy dancing for its own sake ( :clap: ) or decide it's much too much like hard work for pulling (in which case, good riddance, frankly).

I don't know whether there is a higher proportion of married women than single - but given the cattle market atmosphere in most night clubs, if a married/'paired off' woman loves dancing and her partner doesn't then Ceroc is a comparatively safe environment - and long may that continue.


There are single guys: it's just the "eligible" that needs fixing.
:yeah: :rofl:

I think a mix of alcohol and low lighting might help :devil:
Only for those who are desperate...

drathzel
2nd-January-2006, 12:05 PM
Perhaps they enjoy dancing for dancing's sake rather than as a prelude to anything else.

:yeah: !!!!!! I dont think i would dance as much or enjoy it as much if i was worried that every guy i danced with was looking for more.

Icey
2nd-January-2006, 12:08 PM
Perhaps the question could be turned around, why relatively fewer married men.
I've met one married man that dances but his wife doesn't. I got talking to him at Ashtons and he was telling me that he had wanted to try Ceroc for ages but his wife has no interest in dancing so in the end he came along by himself.
Perhaps I'm naive but as far as I could tell he had no intention of trying to pick up a girl but simply wanted to dance. I was speaking to him again at ICE last night and he had been trying to get his daughter involved but to no avail.

drathzel
2nd-January-2006, 12:09 PM
Perhaps the question could be turned around, why relatively fewer married men.


i think missy d covered this one in another thread a while ago, every man is single til you find out he isnt!:mad:

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 12:21 PM
For me, Salsa Guy has come across in a negative way.So you're determined to out-do him on that point, are you? What did he actually say? He *didn't* say that he dances in order to fill his bed that evening. He *did* say that he dances in order to meet single girls, and I see nothing wrong with that.

He also said that if you are single, straight and male, it's more than likely that you're going to Ceroc to meet girls. Well, that might not be the case for the committed forumites here - and it might not be the case for the majority of women who dance (to meet single men) - but I think it's probably true for a significant minority (if not majority) of single, straight men in general at Ceroc.

Even if you disagree, it's still a fair point of view and doesn't deserve a bitchslapping.

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 12:23 PM
...I am a single girl... then you're not best placed to hypothesise about the reasons single men go dancing - which is what Salsa Guy was talking about.

WittyBird
2nd-January-2006, 01:33 PM
then you're not best placed to hypothesise about the reasons single men go dancing - which is what Salsa Guy was talking about.

Ok so were not single men, we are quite insightful and we are women. Now everyone is going to have different reasons to dance, but just to dance to go and pull women IMO is wrong.

If you meet someone then fine good luck to you, but surely that isnt the sole reason for going:eek:

Tazmanian Devil
2nd-January-2006, 01:33 PM
then you're not best placed to hypothesise about the reasons single men go dancing - which is what Salsa Guy was talking about.
Who's Hypothesising:confused: As I said earlier I am just quoting what the oppinion of the single guys I know at dancing and have met over the last 4 years is.

TheTramp
2nd-January-2006, 01:47 PM
So you're determined to out-do him on that point, are you? What did he actually say? He *didn't* say that he dances in order to fill his bed that evening. He *did* say that he dances in order to meet single girls, and I see nothing wrong with that.

He also said that if you are single, straight and male, it's more than likely that you're going to Ceroc to meet girls. Well, that might not be the case for the committed forumites here - and it might not be the case for the majority of women who dance (to meet single men) - but I think it's probably true for a significant minority (if not majority) of single, straight men in general at Ceroc.

Even if you disagree, it's still a fair point of view and doesn't deserve a bitchslapping.

So, why not quote the rest of the post I made, where I said that I didn't see anything wrong with it (in line with what Andreas said). Provided that it didn't turn into just a meat market, with people just coming on the pull. Selective quoting to make a point, is beneath you. Surely?

And I don't recall bitchslapping him. He said that it's more than likely. I said that I didn't. And said that (for me obviously, since I was the one saying it) he came across in a negative way - ie. just there on the pull.

What IS your problem?? Seems like you're a. Making mountains out of molehills, and b. Just trying to provoke on this thread....

Andy McGregor
2nd-January-2006, 01:49 PM
I've met one married man that dances but his wife doesn't. I got talking to him at Ashtons and he was telling me that he had wanted to try Ceroc for ages but his wife has no interest in dancing so in the end he came along by himself.
Perhaps I'm naive but as far as I could tell he had no intention of trying to pick up a girl but simply wanted to dance. I was speaking to him again at ICE last night and he had been trying to get his daughter involved but to no avail.I've been going to partner dance classes on and off for since the late '70s. I've been with Sue all that time and she's only joined me in my dancing hobby over the last three years.

Like the guy above I go because I love dancing. That's it.

However, dance class as organised in MJ is a great way to meet new people. So if you're single and like they type of person you meet at the classes you might find a new mate. However, you might not so you really do need to enjoy the dancing rather than see it as a necessary evil that you endure in your hunt for a partner.

The bit I disagree with is the title of this thread. It names married women as if there's something wrong with them being at a dance class. It's a dance class, it's not a singles night. If Salsa Guy wants to go where everyone is single he's looking in the wrong place. And it's quite easy to find out if somebody is married. I'm regulary asked the appropriate question: I always give the wrong answer. The question is "does your wife (or husband) dance?". When I used to say "no" it was the wrong answer, now that I say "yes" it's still the wrong answer :confused:

Maybe Salsa Guy is really saying there aren't enough single women at his local dance class. I'm sure there are some but maybe he's fussy/shallow or maybe he needs better odds in the supply and demand matrix. And maybe he'd be better off going to places where the light is lower and the women have had more to drink :innocent: :whistle:

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 01:57 PM
And I don't recall bitchslapping him.No, you're right, you didn't. I didn't even say that you did. (But sloppy of me not to be clearer which "you" I was referring to) However some contributors to this thread did.
he came across in a negative way - ie. just there on the pull.

What IS your problem?? My problem is your repeated insinuation that being there "just" on the pull is so bad.


but just to dance to go and pull women IMO is wrong.No, of course, dancing exists on a higher plane than grubby stuff like meeting nice girls. Long may it stay that way.

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 02:01 PM
Who's Hypothesising:confused: As I said earlier I am just quoting what the oppinion of the single guys I know at dancing and have met over the last 4 years is.If you're not the sort of girl who's looking to meet new partners at Ceroc, then *of course* the sort of men you meet aren't going to be the ones who will tell you that's why they're there. "I'm hoping to meet some nice girls tonight" isn't something most men put on a placard, and from the reaction that Salsa Guy's got here, I can understand why.

TheTramp
2nd-January-2006, 02:22 PM
If you're not the sort of girl who's looking to meet new partners at Ceroc, then *of course* the sort of men you meet aren't going to be the ones who will tell you that's why they're there. "I'm hoping to meet some nice girls tonight" isn't something most men put on a placard, and from the reaction that Salsa Guy's got here, I can understand why.

Actually, what he said wasn't 'I'm hoping to'. What he said was 'Single men are more than likely to be going to'. Which is different. I don't think that anyone has actually said that there's a problem with meeting people of the opposite gender at a jive night.

And, while some people may disagree with that statement, I think that most of the reaction on this thread has now come from what you've subsequently posted. Not what Salsa Guy posted....

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 02:31 PM
And, while some people may disagree with that statement, I think that most of the reaction on this thread has now come from what you've subsequently posted. Not what Salsa Guy posted....Most likely because I seem to be the only person not intent on drowning his opinion in a chorus of "what a load of rubbish", me-too's and yeah-that's. (Not forgetting the odd "you must be a sleazy perv.") Not a very warm welcome to his first two posts on this Forum was it? What an amicable bunch we are.

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 02:43 PM
To continue this anal disection of who said what:
Actually, what he said wasn't 'I'm hoping to'. What he said was 'Single men are more than likely to be going to'. Which is different.meaning, as far as I can see, more than 50% of the single men go to meet girls. Not impossible, unreasonable, or even unlikely in some venues I've been to.


I don't think that anyone has actually said that there's a problem with meeting people of the opposite gender at a jive night.No but they've said they have a problem - you've said you've a problem - if that's the reason someone went to Ceroc. In other words, it's ok as long as it's an accident?

Someone, please explain to me what the problem with someone going to Ceroc primarily - largely - intentionally - to meet girls. It beats nightclubs any day. Such high-handed disapproval of other people's motives is silly and pathetic.

TheTramp
2nd-January-2006, 02:51 PM
I seem to be the only person
There you go. Must be nice to be always right. Even when you're in the minority of one.... :whistle:

While I agree that, statistically speaking, 'more than likely' does mean 50%, I would contend that in the context of the original post, the statistical meaning isn't the one that comes across. What comes across is that every single man is more than likely to be there solely on the pull. To me at least. And I'm as entitled to have my opinion on what was meant as you are. And that was what I, and I imagine most other people, except your good self, has disagreed with.

And, if it's an anal disection, why are you continuing with it? That'll make you as anal as the rest of us....

TheTramp
2nd-January-2006, 02:54 PM
Such high-handed disapproval of other people's motives is silly and pathetic.
Talking about bitchslapping, incidentally, this is the first example that I've seen on this thread (except for Andy, and he doesn't count), of someone degenerating into personal insults. So, now you're being hypocritical too. Good job!! :whistle:

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 02:57 PM
Talking about bitchslapping, incidentally, this is the first example that I've seen on this thread (except for Andy, and he doesn't count), of someone degenerating into personal insults. So, now you're being hypocritical too. Good job!! :whistle:Er, nope. It's the opinion that I call silly, and pathetic, not the person holding it. My turn to point out that there's a difference.

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 02:59 PM
There you go. Must be nice to be always right. Even when you're in the minority of one.... :whistle:It's quite a burden, but I cope. (And anyway, there's me and Salsa Guy - that makes two.)
And, if it's an anal disection, why are you continuing with it? That'll make you as anal as the rest of us....I'm much more so than the rest of you.

LMC
2nd-January-2006, 03:03 PM
The forum isn't really representative of the wider dance world - we're all dance mad. IRL, I think many single men start dancing to meet a girl. Most of them either start to enjoy dancing for its own sake ( ) or decide it's much too much like hard work for pulling (in which case, good riddance, frankly).
In other words, AFAIAC, single guys being there to meet girls is not a problem unless they get sleazy.

BUT, this from salsa guy's first post (snipped):

... When I started six years ago it was comparatively easy to meet single girls, go out on dates, make friends or even girfriends. ...

Is it because too many men are going now and all they want to do is rub themselves against the women ??
is fairly reactionary (salsa guy, you're going to fit in just fine :D ). He asked a question, the answer has been a resounding "NO".

stewart38
2nd-January-2006, 03:20 PM
So you're determined to out-do him on that point, are you? What did he actually say? He *didn't* say that he dances in order to fill his bed that evening. He *did* say that he dances in order to meet single girls, and I see nothing wrong with that.

He also said that if you are single, straight and male, it's more than likely that you're going to Ceroc to meet girls. Well, that might not be the case for the committed forumites here - and it might not be the case for the majority of women who dance (to meet single men) - but I think it's probably true for a significant minority (if not majority) of single, straight men in general at Ceroc.

Even if you disagree, it's still a fair point of view and doesn't deserve a bitchslapping.

:yeah:

Totally agree and its a reality check

I went dancing initially to meet a woman (the fact i like dancing before and since was a bonus and kept me going)

The mix of married or single or whatever they call themselves hasnt changed over the years so the orginal posters comments are mis leading or has his 'pulling power gone down hill :sad: )

Some people have posted a high handed attitude yet the met partners through dancing ! Maybe there uncomfortable with the phraseolgy or dont like the fact they cant 'pull' as there in a long term relationship

Some venues its all in breds so to pretend anything else is silly

I dont know what percentage are married men or women but its still a nice way to meet people and get them to cook breakfast in the morning if your that way inclined. me I just go to dance :yeah:

WittyBird
2nd-January-2006, 03:23 PM
but its still a nice way to meet people and get them to cook breakfast in the morning if your that way inclined. me I just go to dance :yeah:

You really are kicking the new year off with a start:wink:

stewart38
2nd-January-2006, 03:24 PM
What a load of........
I personally believe people come to dance not pull :rolleyes:

Yes but we dont all dance like you :wink:

WittyBird
2nd-January-2006, 03:27 PM
Yes but we dont all dance like you :wink:
Well just keep going and practise sweetie :rofl:

Lynn
2nd-January-2006, 03:35 PM
I don't have a problem with a single man or woman going to ceroc because it might be a social scene where they can interact with other singles. That might be their initial reason and they might really enjoy the dancing and stick with it, or they might give up, as has already been said.

I would have a problem if a whole culture developed around this - lots of people who went to every event with the intention of 'pulling', who put more effort into dancing with 'available' partners, or people that they were attracted to, instead of just enjoying the dancing.

Mainly because as Drathzel said...

I dont think i would dance as much or enjoy it as much if i was worried that every guy i danced with was looking for more.... whether I was single or not.

TheTramp
2nd-January-2006, 04:03 PM
What Lynn said....
:yeah:

Andy McGregor
2nd-January-2006, 04:29 PM
Mainly because as Drathzel said...



I dont think i would dance as much or enjoy it as much if i was worried that every guy i danced with was looking for more.

... whether I was single or not.:yeah:
And starting a thread that laments the high number of married women/lack of single women at classes is a step in the direction of making MJ out to be a singles night.

And ESG's defence of the singles culture of MJ is attempting to take things the same way. Thank goodness nobody agrees with him :innocent:

To give an example of the singles thing gone to far, one of our local organisers is convinced that MJ is all about dating. He gets the local TV along once in a while to show how easy it is to meet someone and find love at MJ. The first thing I knew about it was when the camera crew arrived. I managed to stay out of each shot - the last thing I wanted was to appear on a programme about singles and places to go to find a date. After all, I don't want to put my wife in a position where she has to explain to her friends why I'd been seen at a singles night.

As I've said all along, MJ is a great place to meet people and make new friends and possibly find a new partner. But it is, IMHO, first and foremost as dance class. To complain that there are too many married women at a dance class would only be relevant if those married women were useless dancers. And they are not any different at dancing from the unmarried women.


Talking about bitchslapping, incidentally, this is the first example that I've seen on this thread (except for Andy, and he doesn't count), of someone degenerating into personal insults. So, now you're being hypocritical too. Good job!! And there was me thinking that nobody was disagreeing with me because I was talking sense :tears:

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 04:37 PM
As I've said all along, MJ is a great place to meet people and make new friends and possibly find a new partner. But it is, IMHO, first and foremost as dance class.Must be an urban/provincial divide then.

LMC
2nd-January-2006, 04:47 PM
To complain that there are too many married women at a dance class would only be relevant if those married women were useless dancers. And they are not any different at dancing from the unmarried women.
:yeah:

BUT (since I'll argue with anyone) salsa guy has a valid point about husbands/boyfriends, if they are present. It can be very awkward asking someone to dance if their partner is sat right next to them. If salsa guy is dancing appropriately, "annoyed" should be an exaggeration in most cases. But it only takes one annoyed life-partner of someone you've danced with to put a bit of a downer on your evening - there is a guy at one of my regular venues who I specifically avoid because his (taxi dancer) partner looked so put out the one and only time I ever asked him to dance.

ESG - yep, IME there is an urban/provincial divide. In terms of couples vs single people, then even the difference between Finchley and central London is quite marked IMO. Get as far out as the arctic wastes of North Herts and easily 50% of men are there with their wives/partners. NOT a problem - unless you're there to pull...

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 04:51 PM
Of course if you want actual evidence of the number of people who come to Ceroc mainly or primarily to pair up, consider how many people stop coming after they meet a new boy/girlfriend (*). You can invent a spurious excuse to explain this (|doesn't fit in my new lifestyle" / "don't have the time" / "can't afford it any more") but the simplest explanation is that they're no longer looking for what it was they sought at Ceroc. If they were just dancing because they like to dance, there'd be no reason to give it up.

So if people never pair up and drop out, then great - you're obviously at a venue that's very different to some of the ones I've danced at.

(*) I can even think of some formerly-prolific forum posters who fall into this category.

Andy McGregor
2nd-January-2006, 05:23 PM
Must be an urban/provincial divide then.So is ESG saying that provincial dance classes are primarily for learning to dance and urban ones are primarily for people on the pull? :innocent:

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 05:43 PM
So is ESG saying that provincial dance classes are primarily for learning to dance and urban ones are primarily for people on the pull? :innocent:I don't do much provincial dancing, so I'll have to take at face-value your assurances about the tone of out-of-the-way dance venues that you frequent, and whether they do or don't hand out chastity belts at the door.

But Ceroc London was sufficiently interested in attracting new young and single members that they ran mini-Ceroc lessons at Chemistry - a series of singles parties held in central London venues. It was Linda Barker (now Mrs. Ellard) who was teaching at the one I helped with. And there seemed to be no reticence that night about the fact that yes, some people do come to Ceroc "to pull".

If I had more than a customer's interest in the issue, I'd be just as critical if anyone suggested that the *only* (as opposed to a common) reason to attend Ceroc was to meet girls, but that doesn't appear to be a popular point of view. Ceroc is a robust and broad church, which is why I like it. The only threat to that diversity that I can see is a surfeit of people who are wont to tell others why they should or (in this case) shouldn't dance.

bigdjiver
2nd-January-2006, 06:07 PM
Ceroc central have also run Ceroc party nights for various organisations and individuals, and some of those organisations have been singles clubs. Nevertheless dancing does seem to be the primary motivation for the vast majority of members regularly attending the normal classes and freestyles that I have attended.

Andy McGregor
2nd-January-2006, 06:33 PM
The only threat to that diversity that I can see is a surfeit of people who are wont to tell others why they should or (in this case) shouldn't dance.If ESG is accusing me of saying there is a reason people shouldn't dance he is wrong - nothing new there :yawn: Dancing is a fabulous hobby and should be open to all, singles, marrieds, gay, straight, looking, not looking, celibate, etc, etc. But, IMHO, to label a MJ night as a singles night it to say "don't come if you're married or have a partner, it's not for you":mad:

What I'm saying is that people shouldn't come dancing and complain that there are married women in the room - certainly not when the implication is that there aren't enough single women present. They shouldn't regard a MJ night as a singles night. MJ nights are a dance class, singles nights are exactly that. For people to come to a MJ night and expect it to be a singles night is wrong IMHO.

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 06:57 PM
If ESG is accusing me of saying there is a reason people shouldn't dance he is wrong - nothing new there :yawn:If that isn't what you are saying then I'm delighted to be wrong. But there are lots of people in this thread who are saying exactly that.

Re-read the thread, expecially the tone taken by KillingTime, Andreas (with the greatest of courtesy - as always), Wittybird, Scotch Bonnet, Heather and Tazmanian Devil. THey all seem rather scandalized and shocked that a man would admit to attending a dance with the intention of chatting up girls. They shouldn't be.


Dancing is a fabulous hobby and should be open to all, singles, marrieds, gay, straight, looking, not looking, celibate, etc, etc. But, IMHO, to label a MJ night as a singles night it to say "don't come if you're married or have a partner, it's not for you":mad: True. Which is why I would complain bitterly if it was labelled exclusively as a singles night.


What I'm saying is that people shouldn't come dancing and complain that there are married women in the room - certainly not when the implication is that there aren't enough single women present. They shouldn't regard a MJ night as a singles night. MJ nights are a dance class, singles nights are exactly that. For people to come to a MJ night and expect it to be a singles night is wrong IMHO.Obviously this is not a forum (Forum?) to expect many people to agree that Ceroc makes a good place to "pull" - since those who think that are out doing it, not wasting time on the Internet. To put it bluntly - they're having too much fun getting laid.

I don't think you and I disagree as much as the noise generated in this thread would imply, Andy...

thewacko
2nd-January-2006, 07:17 PM
Why are there so many married women coming to Ceroc?
:D Right I have to be careful what I say now, but lets see if I can say this without getting annoyed and thrown off the forum:

When I Taxi'd at Charlton and Greenwich, as one of my discussion points with the beginners was to state that Ceroc is fun, and that people come here to have fun. Ceroc is a place where women on there own (be them married or not) can go to Ceroc venues without the fear that they are going to a pick up Joint. Not only that but that should they have a dance with a bloke who then comes on a bit strong they only need to mention it to one of the other women and then that man would find it would not be very long before he found non of the women would dance with him.

I am not saying that relationships do not occur and develop at ceroc, they do (Infact I am in a very strong relationship at the moment with a woman I met at Ceroc a few Years ago) and are bound to occur as all the people there have a common enjoyment - don't know if that makes sense or not!!

Many men enjoy dancing, and so do many women, unfortunately not all men do, especially the ones that are married to the women that enjoy dancing - why should this mean that the "wifey" can not go dancing!!!!!!!!! a bit of a stoneage thought dont you think:mad:

OK High horse stay, I will get of you now.

thewacko
2nd-January-2006, 07:21 PM
Do I detect a slightly (or more than slightly) "holier-than-thou" attitude from some pure souls towards anyone who does come to Ceroc to meet girls?
Not at all.
But do not go to Ceroc thinking of it as a pick up joint - it aint.
It is one of the very few places men and women alike can go and have fun without the added pressures of being picked on.:cheers:

thewacko
2nd-January-2006, 07:24 PM
:If that was the case I would have alot of relationships going on with both male and female dancers. :rolleyes:
:hug: :hug: :kiss: :kiss:
:cheers: :cheers:
:yeah:

robd
2nd-January-2006, 07:31 PM
Given that the debate so far kicked off by Salsa guy has generated a lot of heat, if a bit less light, I wanted to re-read the original and reconsider it.



Why are there so many married women coming to Ceroc? I get the impression that around 90% of women at most venues are atttached and 90% of men are single looking for a girlfriend or even a date. When I started six years ago it was comparatively easy to meet single girls, go out on dates, make friends or even girfriends. Now its thanks for the dance, got to get back to the annoyed looking hushband/boyfriend.


Your impression? That's fair enough. Doesn't map to mine but we (presumably) go to different venues, meet different crowds, etc. However I have very rarely experienced the "thanks for the dance, got to get back to the annoyed looking hushband/boyfriend" - perhaps you need to look at the fact that there may be other reasons for this reaction than the fact that the person in question is married.



Is it because too many men are going now and all they want to do is rub themselves against the women ??

Really? Based on what? Again, it doesn't tally with my experience which is not to say it doesn't tally with yours.


I do understand why women (married or not) do like coming to Ceroc but let us be realistic. If you are a single man and straight you are more than likely coming to dance to meet a girl. What is wrong with that?

I don't see anything wrong with that and I believe that may be a fairly accurate assessment of (part of ?) the motive for a lot of men (not necessarily just the single ones) initally attending Ceroc. I think that if a man does not then start to enjoy dancing for dancing's sake this will reflect in his dancing ability and in turn will impact on his attractiveness as a partner and thus his chances of successfully meeting and impressing a prospective partner - unless he looks like Brad Pitt in which case he probably does not need to be trying too hard to meet girls anyway.

One of the aspects of Ceroc that I love is the social and physical interaction between the sexes without the expectation of it leading to a relationship. If this were to be eroded and more people were to be wary of how they acted towards one another for fear of 'leading someone on' I would be saddened. However, as ESG stated, Ceroc is a broad church and it is still possible for single people to meet there and relationships to be formed there without tainting the open, non-intimidatory environment which is one of the major contributory factors to my and, I suspect many others, enjoyment of dancing.

Robert

robd
2nd-January-2006, 07:34 PM
Yes but we dont all dance like you :wink:

Great picture Stewart. Unfortunately I can't include the photo in the post but I have to give a big :clap: to Witty bird - it looks like the perfect promo poster for Dirty Dancing 3.

David Franklin
2nd-January-2006, 07:45 PM
Given that the debate so far kicked off by Salsa guy has generated a lot of heat, if a bit less light, I wanted to re-read the original and reconsider it.
Why are there so many married women coming to Ceroc? I get the impression that around 90% of women at most venues are atttached and 90% of men are single looking for a girlfriend or even a date. When I started six years ago it was comparatively easy to meet single girls, go out on dates, make friends or even girfriends. Now its thanks for the dance, got to get back to the annoyed looking hushband/boyfriend.
Your impression? That's fair enough. Doesn't map to mine ... perhaps you need to look at the fact that there may be other reasons for this reaction than the fact that the person in question is married.
Or to put it more bluntly, Salsa Guy:

http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/dysfunction.jpg

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 07:49 PM
Not at all.
But do not go to Ceroc thinking of it as a pick up joint - it aint.
It is one of the very few places men and women alike can go and have fun without the added pressures of being picked on.:cheers:It's not a pick-up joint in one sense only: it would be wrong to assume that everyone you met there was single and available. But it would be just as wrong to assume that nobody (or almost nobody) goes to Ceroc to pick up girls, and that no girls that you meet there are available. As far as real-world pick-up joints go, somewhere like Ceroc, for instance, is ideal. You can dance with someone, talk to them in private for three minutes, see them again the next week if you both like, find out whether they like you too, go for a drink with them afterwards to socialise and so on. That - in my opinion - is the best kind of "pick up joint" - in the nicest possible way. No pressure either way, since many people are *not* there to meet a new partner too.

Interesting choice of words, by the way - "picked on" - not sure how picking on someone ever helped win their affection. Leastways, it's never worked for me.

Andy McGregor
2nd-January-2006, 07:51 PM
I don't think you and I disagree as much as the noise generated in this thread would imply, Andy...Since when have ESG or I let lack of disagreement stand in the way of a good argument?
:whistle:

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 07:53 PM
Or to put it more bluntly, Salsa Guy:
Oh, don't take any notice of him.

By the way, David, where did you meet your wife?

thewacko
2nd-January-2006, 08:01 PM
One of the aspects of Ceroc that I love is the social and physical interaction between the sexes without the expectation of it leading to a relationship. If this were to be eroded and more people were to be wary of how they acted towards one another for fear of 'leading someone on' I would be saddened. However, as ESG stated, Ceroc is a broad church and it is still possible for single people to meet there and relationships to be formed there without tainting the open, non-intimidatory environment which is one of the major contributory factors to my and, I suspect many others, enjoyment of dancing.

Robert
:yeah:

David Franklin
2nd-January-2006, 08:03 PM
Oh, don't take any notice of him.http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/compromise.jpg

killingtime
2nd-January-2006, 08:56 PM
Re-read the thread, expecially the tone taken by KillingTime, Andreas (with the greatest of courtesy - as always), Wittybird, Scotch Bonnet, Heather and Tazmanian Devil.

Ooh. I get listed first. I'm special; my mum said so. My apologies at the tone it was actually most in reaction to:


I do understand why women (married or not) do like coming to Ceroc but let us be realistic. If you are a single man and straight you are more than likely coming to dance to meet a girl. What is wrong with that? Perfectly normal as I see it.

With the lovely implication that women are there to dance and guys (who aren't in a relationship) are there to pull. Which I did take a little offense at. Maybe I'm one of those minority of single men that went dancing to dance.

I really don't have issue with people attending ceroc to meet someone but I was a little taken aback by someone complaining about the lack of single people and the statement above. I also worry that if lots of people did only attend for that reason it would have a detrimental effect on the event.

Andy McGregor
2nd-January-2006, 09:15 PM
I really don't have issue with people attending ceroc to meet someone but I was a little taken aback by someone complaining about the lack of single people and the statement above. I also worry that if lots of people did only attend for that reason it would have a detrimental effect on the event.:yeah:

In my experience, Salsa attracts a different type of person from Modern Jive. Maybe Salsa Guy has stated his preference and should mix with his own kind :innocent:

frodo
2nd-January-2006, 10:11 PM
...
With the lovely implication that women are there to dance and guys (who aren't in a relationship) are there to pull. Which I did take a little offense at. Maybe I'm one of those minority of single men that went dancing to dance.

I really don't have issue with people attending ceroc to meet someone but I was a little taken aback by someone complaining about the lack of single people ...One way of reading Salsa Guy's initial post wouldn't take it too seriously.

While it is a pretty good thread subject, and has about the right amount of controversy, it does strike me as a good way to stir things up ( though that may not be the intent here ).

It might be good if Salsa Guy was able to expanded further on his original post.



In any case it's nice to have some well thought out responses, not just "no your in the minority" / casting aspersions on the questioner, and a variety of opinion - In particular some of ESG's contributions.


One consideration, which doesn't reflect on Salsa Guy, is that in the intervening 6 years the age profile could have increased, which would probably tend to reduce the number of single women available.

For example I think the age profile of Elmgrove Leroc has probably increased from the 1994 survey.
http://www.elmgrove-leroc.co.uk/WhatIsLeRoc.htm


And of course we're all six years older, which doesn't always improve attractiveness.

Tazmanian Devil
2nd-January-2006, 10:23 PM
Re-read the thread, expecially the tone taken by KillingTime, Andreas (with the greatest of courtesy - as always), Wittybird, Scotch Bonnet, Heather and Tazmanian Devil. THey all seem rather scandalized and shocked that a man would admit to attending a dance with the intention of chatting up girls. They shouldn't be....
Not scandalized and shocked at all, I am aware that there are guys that go to pull I just don't think that there is a majority of guys with that opinion. If someone is serious about dancing or learning to dance then they go for them reasons, and if by chance they meet a woman/man in the meantime then it's a bonus. For instance The Wacko started dancing 4 years ago and has been seeing his lovely dancing lady friend for 2 years both of them had no intention of hunting for love but it happened. :wink:

Tazmanian Devil
2nd-January-2006, 10:25 PM
Ooh. I get listed first. I'm special; my mum said so. My apologies at the tone it was actually most in reaction to:
I'm NOT :tears: Been listed last :tears: Does that mean I am low on the pulling list :devil:

Jive Brummie
2nd-January-2006, 10:43 PM
Unfortunately, after all the grief I received from the guys at work after they found out I danced, the very next thing they said was, "So are there many single women that go along?"

I work in a completely male environment and dare I say, that was a 'normal' reaction...to counter this point though, I have to say I think it's a bit sad when you feel you have to go to a dance class specifically to pull! I reckon the 'pull-factor' is in the back of many peoples minds but once they actually realise they enjoy what they're doing...it's just dancing...and rightly so.

I got involved with Melanie because of dancing...but it was before I'd ever been to a class...does that still count?:whistle:

j.

p.s. urban/provincial differences? Aye....right!:what:

David Franklin
2nd-January-2006, 10:45 PM
By the way, David, where did you meet your wife?At Ceroc - though I'm not sure which venue!

If you look at previous posts, you'll see I make no bones about the fact that I think Ceroc is a good way to meet people of the opposite sex. But what I've also said is great is that it's a "non-threatening environment" - a place where you can meet people and get to know them, with the idea that maybe something more will develop. (Which I personally think is very different from going out with an "I'm here to pull" mindset).

I know you thought the picture I posted was harsh - well I thought it was funny - I find most of the posters at www.despair.com at least raise a wry smile. Mileages obviously vary. But I certainly didn't consider it particularly pointed - I think it applies to pretty much everyone.

I would stand by the inference that if "thanks for the dance, got to get back to the annoyed looking husband/boyfriend." is the usual response you get, the problem is more likely to be with you than with the people you dance with.

Gadget
2nd-January-2006, 10:56 PM
However, what I said. I come to dance. Anything else might be a bonus :flower::devil:including DJing?:devil:

{:hug:}

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-January-2006, 11:19 PM
If you look at previous posts, you'll see I make no bones about the fact that I think Ceroc is a good way to meet people of the opposite sex. But what I've also said is great is that it's a "non-threatening environment" - a place where you can meet people and get to know them, with the idea that maybe something more will develop. (Which I personally think is very different from going out with an "I'm here to pull" mindset).I don't find the two contradictory: If it's what you want, it's nice to have somwhere to 'pull' that isn't full of expectation: where *enough* people go "just" to dance, but not *everybody* goes "just" to dance. Anyone who does go "on the pull" has to appreciate and be prepared for the mixture of people they're going to meet though...
I know you thought the picture I posted was harsh - well I thought it was funny - I find most of the posters at www.despair.com (http://www.despair.com) at least raise a wry smile. Mileages obviously vary. But I certainly didn't consider it particularly pointed - I think it applies to pretty much everyone.It's funny coming from the context of the website full of such posters, but I probably overreacted in the context of this thread... oops. Sorry.

David Franklin
2nd-January-2006, 11:37 PM
I don't find the two contradictory: If it's what you want, it's nice to have somwhere to 'pull' that isn't full of expectation: where *enough* people go "just" to dance, but not *everybody* goes "just" to dance.I think there's a bit of excluded middle here though. The problem is not if you don't go "just to dance". But if you go "just to pull", that's a horse of a different colour.

Actually - I'm not exactly saying you can't go there "just to pull" either. But an awful lot of people will think you a bit of a git if you do.

stewart38
3rd-January-2006, 01:21 AM
I wonder why a club close to me that is mainly couples gets cira 60 people a week and another down the road in a leisure centre that gets 250/300 mainly non couples :sick:

Andy McGregor
3rd-January-2006, 03:35 AM
I wonder why a club close to me that is mainly couples gets cira 60 people a week and another down the road in a leisure centre that gets 250/300 mainly non couples :sick:Maslow

Dreadful Scathe
3rd-January-2006, 05:47 PM
But it is, IMHO, first and foremost as dance class.

Totally wrong! (new year resolution - more aggressive posting style ;) )

This would only be true if most of the evening was taken up by the class. In actual fact there is a lot of freestyle and even people who turn up JUST for that. Seems to me that most Modern Jive classes are a social event first and foremost with a mix of dance class, gossip and singles club thrown in ;)


It can be very awkward asking someone to dance if their partner is sat right next to them

Ive never felt that at any nights Ive been too. Im maybe just not looking for it though I can be oblivious at the best of times, especially as I really should wear glasses more often. I do find it hilarious when people come up and ask me if they can dance with my wife, next time Im going to say "No. She's had her 2 dances for this evening"


but the simplest explanation is that they're no longer looking for what it was they sought at Ceroc.

Indeed. Ive met quite a few of them over the years. Personally I started dancing because I always wanted to be able to dance, so I still do. Any social event that involves close proximity with members of the opposite sex is an excellent place to pick up babes though, if thats what you're looking for ;).

El Salsero Gringo
3rd-January-2006, 05:51 PM
Totally wrong! (new year resolution - more aggressive posting style ;) )

{snip}

Indeed. Ive met quite a few of them over the years. Personally I started dancing because I always wanted to be able to dance, so I still do. Any social event that involves close proximity with members of the opposite sex is an excellent place to pick up babes though, if thats what you're looking for ;).You could at least have the decency to pretend to disagree with me (like McGregor does) otherwise you're going to be no fun at all.

Bill
3rd-January-2006, 05:59 PM
Seems to me that most Modern Jive classes are a social event first and foremost with a mix of dance class, gossip and singles club thrown in ;)




Completely agree ( being very positive too !!:D ). I think dancers can spot someone who is at a venue just to 'pull' very quickly but I believe for the vast majority of dancers the primary reason for going to any jive night is simply to dance. One of the other reasons may be the hope or expectation that they might meet someone and some of us did find a partner - even when we weren't really looking :rolleyes: :nice:

There are dancers who manage to secure reputations of being on the hunt for 'partners' and on the whole I believe are avoided by those who really just want to dance. But we're all adults and with so many dancers there's bound to be all sorts of relationships - many we may know nothing about.

Clueless
22nd-November-2006, 04:26 PM
Ok I have just stumbled across this Thread and I am probably going to stir it up again, sorry if I do.

The reason I got into Ceroc was becasue an ex of mine asked me to go along and I though what the hell it'd be good for the banter. So after about 3 weeks of going I was hooked. I have had a relationship out of Ceroc and recently I have one that started becasue of Ceroc, but the best thing was I wasn't even looking. I have found if you are looking it can come across as desperate of needy where as if you aren't looking somtimes the best people enter your life when you least expect it.

I find it unfair to lable the majority going to either 'pull' or 'dance' it is each to their own. The primary reason I go is to dance but if there is a girl there I like I hope that there is a chance I will meet her next week but if she isnt there I still have a good time dancing.

Though in relation to Salsa Guy: When my ceroc partner danced with someone I would grab someon else to dance but know in the back of my mind it is a dance no more. IMO the sooner jeleous partners get that into their head the better. :D

stewart38
22nd-November-2006, 04:54 PM
your not looking


but the best thing was I wasn't even looking. I have found if you are looking it can come across as desperate of needy where as if you aren't looking somtimes the best people enter your life when you least expect it.



but you are looking ?? :sick:




The primary reason I go is to dance but if there is a girl there I like I hope that there is a chance I will meet her next week but if she isnt there I still have a good time dancing.

Clueless
22nd-November-2006, 05:10 PM
your not looking



but you are looking ?? :sick:

No no I'm not like I said the primary reason I go is to dance but if there is a girl I like there there is a chance I could see her next week for a dance.

SeriouslyAddicted
23rd-November-2006, 10:03 AM
I'm not married! :whistle:

I like the fact that I can go and do something which 1. keeps me fit 2. I enjoy doing and 3. gives me a chance to get to know men in a less cliched environment than your average Saturday night cattle market!

Lee Bartholomew
23rd-November-2006, 10:06 AM
I'm not married! :whistle:

I like the fact that I can go and do something which 1. keeps me fit 2. I enjoy doing and 3. gives me a chance to get to know men in a less cliched environment than your average Saturday night cattle market!

The musics sometimes better too.

I have seen a fair few romances start on the dance floor with married and unmarried people. A few have even gone on to be married after meeting at an MJ event.

Dancing originated as a way of romance and has always held a tradition there. also look at Hollywood dance films (dirty dancing etc) all have a romantic ending.

whitetiger1518
23rd-November-2006, 11:43 AM
I'm not married! :whistle:

I like the fact that I can go and do something which 1. keeps me fit 2. I enjoy doing and 3. gives me a chance to get to know men in a less cliched environment than your average Saturday night cattle market!

:yeah: I so totally agree.. :yeah:

You find me on the sofa too :rofl:

A shy (NOT :rofl: ) Whitetiger

Clueless
23rd-November-2006, 01:46 PM
I'm not married! :whistle:

I like the fact that I can go and do something which 1. keeps me fit 2. I enjoy doing and 3. gives me a chance to get to know men in a less cliched environment than your average Saturday night cattle market!

:yeah:

Hear Hear! :respect:

Daydreaming Diva
23rd-November-2006, 02:24 PM
Ok guys, this is an old chestnut but I would like to hear some sensible discussion on this matter:

Why are there so many married women coming to Ceroc? I get the impression that around 90% of women at most venues are atttached and 90% of men are single looking for a girlfriend or even a date. When I started six years ago it was comparatively easy to meet single girls, go out on dates, make friends or even girfriends. Now its thanks for the dance, got to get back to the annoyed looking hushband/boyfriend.



Forgive me asking, but how do arrive at your statistics? Virtually all the ladies that I know that go MJ dancing on their own are either single and have always been so, or may have been married once, but are now single again. That is my experience, but I wouldn't like to maintain it was the same everywhere!!

However, there may be reasons why a lady might say she is married. One of those being that she doesn't want to attract attention from guys looking for, well let's be polite and say, someone to spend a little time off the dance floor with.

I would agree with those who say that there are many valid reasons for going to MJ classes and freestyles. We've heard them all before, but I am adding my slant on the subject for what it's worth.

1) Keeping fit in a sociable way - the gym feels like a waste of time and is a lonely place 2) The enjoyment of expressing oneself to music 3) The partner element makes it more sociable than say line dancing 4) To meet and make friends with new people of both sexes with similar love for music and dance - MJ can be danced to such a wide variety of music 5) To pull 6) To find that special someone, who also dances, that will make ones life complete.

Anyone that goes dancing purely for the number 5) is a wee bit silly in my view. Looking at my list, the other reasons for going involve liking to dance, if you go there to pull, any partner would spot a mile off that you aren't really there to dance. This may very well be the answer to why women, when asked for a date by someone like that, are giving those men the excuse that their "boyfriend/husband wouldn't like it". It is just such a turn off. :blush:

Trouble
23rd-November-2006, 02:54 PM
Im married, i go on my own as my husband does not like dancing and has no inclination to try it even though i have tried to get him to go. :what: :what: I go dancing to

1.try and burn some calories
2. social life is excellent, meeting more and more new friends male and female.
3. feeds my ego and makes me feel good, ie: men asking me to dance makes me feel great.
4. free gropes... (always nice to get a handful of bum when they move there hand out of the way)
5. laughing,, i always have a fantastic laugh on dance nights and an even bigger laugh on the dance weekenders.

Married women do have lives outside of family and husbands. Thats why i go as a married woman. :respect:

Lee Bartholomew
23rd-November-2006, 04:29 PM
Im married, i go on my own as my husband does not like dancing and has no inclination to try it even though i have tried to get him to go. :what: :what: I go dancing to

1.try and burn some calories
2. social life is excellent, meeting more and more new friends male and female.
3. feeds my ego and makes me feel good, ie: men asking me to dance makes me feel great.
4. free gropes... (always nice to get a handful of bum when they move there hand out of the way)
5. laughing,, i always have a fantastic laugh on dance nights and an even bigger laugh on the dance weekenders.

Married women do have lives outside of family and husbands. Thats why i go as a married woman. :respect:

I go as an unmarried, non-woman but the reasons are the same (will exclude 4 though through fear of being called a perv no matter how true it is :D)

SeriouslyAddicted
23rd-November-2006, 04:58 PM
(will exclude 4 though through fear of being called a erv no matter how true it is :D)

You need to dance with Luke - he does a lovely bum squeeze and not even by accident :blush: !

Lee Bartholomew
23rd-November-2006, 05:15 PM
You need to dance with Luke - he does a lovely bum squeeze and not even by accident :blush: !

Yeah but he doesn't like it.

Not that I have squeezed his ass. Honestly. Don't think I have just because of my shoes.