Teacher qualifications & reviews? [Archive]

Gus

6th-February-2003, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Carla
Who needs qualifications... ? The proof of the dance teacher is who comes to the class surely? So long as they are insured, I don't see the need, particularly in modern jive.
Sorry but wont even pretend to be ODA on this...

I've seen about 10 'cowboy' teachers ..... and only 1 of them had any idea about safety, teaching methods, ettiquette etc. There is a reason that only the 'few' graduate from the Blitz or Ceroc teaching courses ... it isn't easy to learn all the aspects neccesary to be a good teacher ... unfortunately Jo Public is far more easily taken in .... I've seen classes of 40+ been taught airsteps and archiespins where life and limb were in danger ... and they loved it! ... ignorance is bliss..

So yes .... the cowboys are a menace, not only to those that they teach, but also to the poor sods who end up having to dance with their 'spawn' .... yup, you may have guessed that this is a sore point.

Basil Brush (Forum Plant)

6th-February-2003, 03:31 PM

Mmmm, not sure. I have been taught by some really dodgy so-called 'qualified' teachers!

Gus

6th-February-2003, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Basil Brush
Mmmm, not sure. I have been taught by some really dodgy so-called 'qualified' teachers!

Lets put it this way ... would you prefer to be taught by a failed taxi dancer (number of examples) or someone who has been selected beacuse of their attitude, presentation skills and dance ability and has been put through an intensive training course by experieneced instructors?

Any fool can stand on a stage and teach a move (and many do) ... it takes something else to teach a move well. Without trying to sound condescending many dancers will not pick up the subtleties between a trained instructor and a cowboy. Many of the finer points only show over a period of months in the quality of the dancers, their attitude and the feel of the venue.

To sum up ... I've seen about 30+ Ceroc teachers teach ... and I would say that only 3 of them could be classified as'dodgy' ... and even the worst of them were miles better than the three coeboy teachers in my area!:waycool:

PeterL

6th-February-2003, 04:36 PM

Quick Question.

If someone does get injured doing a move is there any legal responsibility on the person who taught that move to have done it properly.

case 1#
cowboy teaches move badly
punter injured performing move the way he was taught.

case 2#
qualified teacher teaches move well stressing safety
punter still injures himself performing move badly

legally speaking is the teacher in case 1# more responsible or are they both as responsible as each other?
The question is legally speaking like ability to sue etc the moral rights and wrongs of the 2 cases are obvious.

Gus

6th-February-2003, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by PeterL
Quick Question.

If someone does get injured doing a move is there any legal responsibility on the person who taught that move to have done it properly. Peter ... thanks ... you reminded me of another VERY important point. Cowboys don't tend to have Public Liability Insurance (PLI) ... all Ceroc and Blitz teachers do .... not sure if PLI is a legal requirement ... but it should be!

Franck

6th-February-2003, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by PeterL
Quick Question.

If someone does get injured doing a move is there any legal responsibility on the person who taught that move to have done it properly.

/snip/

legally speaking is the teacher in case 1# more responsible or are they both as responsible as each other? Absolutely. The law will not differentiate between 'qualified' and non qualified, but it will consider negligence / recklessnes.
In case 2, the teacher taught all the safety points, and even if a move is deemed fairly dangerous, a claim of negligence would be harder to make, all other factors being ignored...
On the other hand, a 'Cow-boy' attempting to teach a move without 'suitable' training or safety warnings, would be much more liable to a negligence claim, and unless they could provide independent evidence to the contrary, would lose such a claim.

Ceroc spend considerable time training Franchisees and teachers, as the reputation of the whole organisation could be affected by one rogue teacher!

In both cases, the injured dancer would rely on Public Liability Insurance for payment of any awarded compensation.

Safety is an important matter, and nobody thinks about whether or not their teachers are insured until such time as an accident happens, and then of course it could be too late...

To re-iterate Gus's point, all Ceroc teachers / events are covered (at great expense) by Public Liability insurance.

Franck.

John S

6th-February-2003, 06:56 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Franck
Absolutely. The law will not differentiate between 'qualified' and non qualified, but it will consider negligence / recklessnes.

Of course, the law will also consider the duty of the individual himself/herself to take any reasonable precautions and to behave in a reasonable manner.

On the other hand, a 'Cow-boy' attempting to teach a move without 'suitable' training or safety warnings, would be much more liable to a negligence claim, and unless they could provide independent evidence to the contrary, would lose such a claim.

Certainly, somebody setting themselves up to teach for commercial gain would do well to make sure they are properly trained to do so (and insured - see below) - however, the final decision would depend on the facts of the case and it isn't possible to just assume a case against an unqualified teacher would be successful.

Ceroc spend considerable time training Franchisees and teachers, as the reputation of the whole organisation could be affected by one rogue teacher!

Agreed, it makes sense to do so as it might also be possible to make a claim against Ceroc as a company if their training and qualification processes were seen to be deficient / dangerous.

In both cases, the injured dancer would rely on Public Liability Insurance for payment of any awarded compensation.

Perhaps - the actual claim would be against the individual teacher. If he/she is covered by PLI then the insurance company would meet a successful claim but if not then the teacher would be personally liable and as it isn't possible to limit a claim for personal injury the damages could bankrupt him/her - or of course if he/she has no assets then the injured party would get nothing.

Safety is an important matter, and nobody thinks about whether or not their teachers are insured until such time as an accident happens, and then of course it could be too late...

Absolutely, and it's an important point that has been raised. Of course, in law we all have a duty of care, so if we do a dangerous move in a crowded dance floor (see other threads on this subject) then we can be held personally liable for damages if another dancer (or our partner) is injured.

To re-iterate Gus's point, all Ceroc teachers / events are covered (at great expense) by Public Liability insurance.

This is so important, and I wonder whether Ceroc and other companies who have a positive training and qualification process should emphasise this and the PLI aspect more - not necessarily to "knock" the opposition but to warn of the consequences of using untrained teachers - a bit like CORGI gas installers etc warning of the dangers of using cowboys in their trade.

Gary

6th-February-2003, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Lets put it this way ... would you prefer to be taught by a failed taxi dancer (number of examples) or someone who has been selected because of their attitude, presentation skills and dance ability and has been put through an intensive training course by experienced instructors?

So far as I know none of the teachers here in Sydney (Australia) have ceroc qualifications. I wouldn't say they're all "failed taxi dancers".

Gus

7th-February-2003, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by gcapell
So far as I know none of the teachers here in Sydney (Australia) have ceroc qualifications. I wouldn't say they're all "failed taxi dancers".

a) I was under the impression that both Australian Ceroc outfits trained up their teachers. But ... whatever works :waycool:

B) was referring to the UK market ... know of several cases in the North West alone

c) "failed taxi dancers" is just a generic term ... just that a number of the unqualified instructors I've come across weren't good enough to qualify/complete Ceroc training ... so they went their own way ...... and its not too hard to se why they couldn't make it as a 'proper' teacher.

TheTramp

7th-February-2003, 01:15 AM

just that a number of the unqualified instructors I've come across weren't good enough to qualify/complete Ceroc trainingSorry, I don't wanna keep saying this, but if you will keep saying that, then you've got to expect me to respond really.

A number of the 'unqualified, failed taxi-dancer' instructors who are teaching probably didn't fit the Ceroc 'image' of youth and beauty, and hence weren't given the chance to see if they could complete or indeed qualify for the training.

That isn't to say that there aren't a number of the type that you are suggesting Gus, but you need to point out both sides of the coin.

And incidentally, everyone has to start somewhere. 15 years ago (or whatever it was), ceroc was just starting out, and I'm sure that the first ceroc teachers weren't of the same standard that most of them are today. Who's to say that in 15 years time, the people that you are slating as cowboys, won't be running their own, succesful jive business, and handing out their own teacher qualifications. As unlikely as it seems just at the minute :D

Steve (still in training as ODA)

Dreadful Scathe

7th-February-2003, 09:54 AM

i was wondering how you can fail at being a taxi dancer ? :)

TheTramp

7th-February-2003, 10:05 AM

I've seen some pretty dire ones. Have no idea how to run the consolidation classes. Not very friendly. Don't actually dance with beginners. Are basically doing it just to get free entry.

Steve

Dreadful Scathe

7th-February-2003, 10:15 AM

i was also wondering after TheTramps comment about the fact that teachers of the quality of TheTramp arent allowed to do Ceroc Training yet some who have been through Ceroc training arent good teachers.

Maybe people set to much store by this in the first place. And for Gus to use examples of 'cowboy' teachers in his specific area is perhaps too much of a generalisation, he also says that 10% of ceroc teachers he has seen have been 'dodgy' (3 out of 30+) yes i know its ALL rough generalisation but there hardly seems to be an epidemic of cowboy teachers acorss the country. I've not seen any teachers i would class as cowboys, that description would be reserved for teachers with little/no awareness of safety and so far i've not come across that at all. Its the individuals who misinterpret the moves who are the problem at classes.

If only there was an exhaustive list on classes around the country with reviews from beginners, intermediate and advanced dancers. Maybe i should start one :D...what happened to Keiths c2d one ?

Dreadful Scathe

7th-February-2003, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by TheTramp
I've seen some pretty dire ones. Have no idea how to run the consolidation classes. Not very friendly. Don't actually dance with beginners. Are basically doing it just to get free entry.

don't the organisers/teachers pick their taxi dancers ? they dont just ASK to be one do they :)

PeterL

7th-February-2003, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe

If only there was an exhaustive list on classes around the country with reviews from beginners, intermediate and advanced dancers. Maybe i should start one :D...what happened to Keiths c2d one ?

You'd have to be careful here as opinions are subjective and just because someone doesn't get on with someones teaching style doesn't mean they are not a good teacher. Also as it has a direct affect on peoples livliehood any defamatory comments would have to be backed up in some provable way as it could be considered libelous. I notice Gus never actually names these cowboys.

Dreadful Scathe

7th-February-2003, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by PeterL
You'd have to be careful here as opinions are subjective and just because someone doesn't get on with someones teaching style doesn't mean they are not a good teacher. Also as it has a direct affect on peoples livliehood any defamatory comments would have to be backed up in some provable way as it could be considered libelous. I notice Gus never actually names these cowboys.

You're still worrying :) I carefully said 'reviews' for that reason, they would only be edited comments from actual people (reviewers) who go to these classes, a simple rating could be based on these comments. Comments that arent constructive wouldnt be used. I dont see it as any different to Theatre Reviews where long running shows are reviewed alongside their competition - bad show reviews have direct affect on peoples liveliehoods there but i LIKE to make an educated choice! :)

because someone doesn't get on with someones teaching style doesn't mean they are not a good teacher

A review is only an opinon, when have any sort of critics all agreed on something? Dont you ever buy review magazines? or newspapers :)

AS for defamatory comments ?!? why would anyone use those ? sure people could post them but they're hardly likely to be used on a serious site where you review places to go to dance.

Gus

7th-February-2003, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by PeterL
Also as it has a direct affect on peoples livliehood any defamatory comments would have to be backed up in some provable way as it could be considered libelous. I notice Gus never actually names these cowboys.

Exactly .. however, if it ever came to court I think I could rely on the fact that I'm a qualified Modern Jive teacher (ex-CTA, now Blitz) with a lot of teaching experience and could quote specific examples of incompetence and putting students at risk.:reallymad

BUT ... I don't think a forum like this is appropriate to 'name and shame'.

Referring back to DS's comments .... the rgeion I'm referring to in the North West and North East ... with about 25+ clubs, probably more clubs than Scotland. If you look at the John Sweeney list (coevrs most of the UK north of Watford) you will see how many non-Ceroc/Blitz clubs there are. As DS will be aware, its the same situation as occured in martial arts ... lots of students and minor black belts setting up their own clubs to teach though they had no teaching training ... some were good, many weren't ... fair point?

Re Tramp's comments ... well Blitz and LeRoc are no so image concious so there are alwys opportuntites to get proper teacher training. Re-iterating an earlier point ... I'm not saying that ALL independants are bad .. I was specifically targetting the one's who suck big time and who are putting their students at risk. As I've said before, reports I've heard on Tramp's classes were favourble but ...just a question Tramp ... do you have PLI?:wink:

Gus

7th-February-2003, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
You're still worrying :) .......A review is only an opinon, when have any sort of critics all agreed on something? Dont you ever buy review magazines? or newspapers :)

AS for defamatory comments ?!? why would anyone use those ? sure people could post them but they're hardly likely to be used on a serious site where you review places to go to dance.

So .. if I review my 'favourite' cowboy and said I though he taught moves dangeously (FACT) .. is that an opinion or defamation?:wink:

Franck ... can we move this debate to a new thread ... we seem to have moved off subject a fair bit :waycool:

Dreadful Scathe

7th-February-2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Gus
So .. if I review my 'favourite' cowboy and said I though he taught moves dangeously (FACT) .. is that an opinion or defamation?:wink:

I would put that as, 'we find that this particular venue does not mention safety and is does not appear to be concerned about how the moves taught are executed, this is especially worrying when more advanced moves are taught'

or along those sorts of lines anyway :) do you really think this sort of site would be unmanageable ? i think its possible - and theres always the choice of doing 'star ratings' and no comments at all i.e marks out of 5 for teaching, floor etc.. with no comments other than maybe a brief summary i.e. Good place to start, lots of beginners - friendly atmosphere....no chance of defamation. Still, i only mentioned this as it would be nice to know what you are getting in to when going to a class for the first time.

And yes, it has nothing to do with Ceroc Champs now -dont blame me for taking it off topic though :)

Dreadful Scathe

7th-February-2003, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by Gus
As DS will be aware, its the same situation as occured in martial arts ... lots of students and minor black belts setting up their own clubs to teach though they had no teaching training ... some were good, many weren't ... fair point?

Good point. Lots of 'governing bodies' willing to provide certificates for gradings too :). 'Yeah I got my black belt through my clubs affiliation with Big Bobs Martial Arts of the United Kingdom' :)

Those sort of clubs would have been good candidates for review too though..although defamation or even taking a review the wrong way would result in them and a few of their mates paying a visit no doubt :). I suppose thats the problem with unregulated industries like that and dance too. Im guilty of trying to fit 'dance' into the mould of 'theatre' in one previous post where it doesnt really fit because of its structure (or lack of). As always though, I have a very open mind on this or any other subject.

Gus

7th-February-2003, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
do you really think this sort of site would be unmanageable ? i think its possible

Yup ... I think its a fine idea ... if the practical problems of mailicous postings (either bolstering a bad club or slating a competing club) could be managed it would be a great bonus....

PeterL

7th-February-2003, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
You're still worrying :)

I should get some sort of official worriers title in the forum.

Dance Demon

7th-February-2003, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Gus

Franck ... can we move this debate to a new thread ... we seem to have moved off subject a fair bit :waycool:

Maybe it's just me,but......
I seem to notice that when a thread goes off subject, particularly when it gets around to having a go at "cowboys" It's usually our official "ODA" that starts the daviation!!!!
I think we all understand your position on this matter Gus :wink:

DD:devil:

Dance Demon

7th-February-2003, 12:00 PM

Lou

7th-February-2003, 12:41 PM

I think it would be a great idea to have a site where classes are independently reviewed by dancers that attend them. I've been thinking of setting something up for the Bristol classes (but not actually got totally around to it). However, it could be extended out to all the UK (or further, if there's a market for it). I've knocked up a quick prototype of how it can be done - please bear in mind it's rough & not all cities have been added!

It's a discussion board format, like here, which should work OK. You need to register to post comments (so it would be easy to spot and control spammers). But I'd invite everybody, not just designated reviewers, to add comments.

Anyway - love to know what you think of the idea & format.

http://www.leroc.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi

edited to add - oh and whether you think anyone would use it - as I was planning to get rid of this webspace & domain as I had no use for it! :wink: And feel free to just have a play...

Dreadful Scathe

7th-February-2003, 01:08 PM

dont think it would work -

the software is pretty much identical to this forum and would be useless for any sort of extensive list of venues, travel guides. search directory functionality and ease of use you would need for the sort of thing i was talking about. It's need to be more of an online review guide than a forum. Maybe more along the lines of the Hitc Hikers Guide to the Galaxy here at http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/

nice forum software that though

Franck

7th-February-2003, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
I would put that as, 'we find that this particular venue does not mention safety and is does not appear to be concerned about how the moves taught are executed, this is especially worrying when more advanced moves are taught'

or along those sorts of lines anyway :) do you really think this sort of site would be unmanageable ? i think its possible - and theres always the choice of doing 'star ratings' and no comments at all i.e marks out of 5 for teaching, floor etc.. with no comments other than maybe a brief summary i.e. Good place to start, lots of beginners - friendly atmosphere....no chance of defamation. Still, i only mentioned this as it would be nice to know what you are getting in to when going to a class for the first time. I have to say, I am with the ODA on this one... I don't think it would be manageable. First of all, the reviews would be skewed towards a specific type of needs (ie that of the typical contributors), people's expectations of a dance class vary widely, and a teacher who is brilliant for some people will be poor for others.
Also, other factors would affect the review, such as the venue, the music, the number of people who attend the venue and the general atmosphere... Even with the best will in the world, people's perceptions are going to be coloured by all the above, so that even a very good teacher, but teaching in a less than perfect venue would be (unfairly) discriminated against.
My fear is that the debates / reviews would turn into the typical 'mac vs pc' slanging match with people defending their own teacher against 'perceived' attacks :sad:

Regarding the importance of training, I believe it is crucial to raising standards. Of course there are many really good teachers who did not get any training and do not belong to any organizations, but as Gus says, there are equally many very poor teachers who got into teaching to satisfy their egoes rather than because of any teaching abilities / talent. Often good dancers assume that just because people praise their dancing, they would (automatically) make good teachers, in my experience, this is far from the case!
I do agree however, that training in itself is not sufficient, and that some (trained and qualified) teachers will become lazy and complacent. This however becomes the responsibility of the the person running the classes, to motivate their teachers and make sure that they keep up with training. In Scotland, I try to send all teachers for 'refresher' courses once a year, over and above the annual update, just so we keep up with the many moves / developments that occur in the Modern Jive world. This is an expensive exercise, especially as we have to travel to London, but in my opinion worthwhile, and goes a long way in explaining why we have such brilliant teachers up here (even if I say so myself :nice: ).

Franck.

Lou

7th-February-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
dont think it would work -

the software is pretty much identical to this forum and would be useless for any sort of extensive list of venues, travel guides. search directory functionality and ease of use you would need for the sort of thing i was talking about. It's need to be more of an online review guide than a forum. Maybe more along the lines of the Hitc Hikers Guide to the Galaxy here at http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/

nice forum software that though

There's a search button at the top of the page with the usual web type search functionality, so that's not an issue.

h2g2 is rather brilliant, isn't it? :grin:

I guess I was thinking in terms of something that was easy to use, and easy to maintain too, which is why I used the BB format. It's also free & easy to install, as I have no brain at the moment (recovering from a cold!) I've popped reply under your comments over there too.

Dreadful Scathe

7th-February-2003, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by Franck
I have to say, I am with the ODA on this one... I don't think it would be manageable. First of all, the reviews would be skewed towards a specific type of needs (ie that of the typical contributors), people's expectations of a dance class vary widely, and a teacher who is brilliant for some people will be poor for others.
Also, other factors would affect the review, such as the venue, the music, the number of people who attend the venue and the general atmosphere... Even with the best will in the world, people's perceptions are going to be coloured by all the above, so that even a very good teacher, but teaching in a less than perfect venue would be (unfairly) discriminated against.

What I initially meant was to have 'official' reviewers rather than a forum format where just anyone can post. I suggested at first that they could be a mix of beginners,intermediate and advanced dancers and thats maybe not a bad idea, but the focus would have to be on 'official' to avoid the problems you mention. The criteria for the type of reviewer would be different ie. A beginner would have the ability to read a good review but would not have been to classes like this before so would review atmosphere, how well they thought moves were explained etc.. it would be there job to review the experience a new dancer would get. Intermediate dancers would rely on their experience more and i wouldnt want anyone reviewing who had any sort of bias (editorial approval sorts that one out) toward style etc (or at least present both sides of the argument) ..they would review based on what they learned from the intermdiate class, comment on safety and such like. Advanced? on second thoughts - i probably wouldnt have advanced dancer reviews, thats a much more specific area with less interest to the general dancer at large. Add to that; venue information, travel, things nearby etc..would make for an interesting read - i can even foresee 'venue of the year' awards....;)

Sorry about posting so much nonsense today..but work is er..slow :)

Lou

7th-February-2003, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
What I initially meant was to have 'official' reviewers rather than a forum format where just anyone can post.
I can see a problem with getting enough volunteers around the country. I guess Scotland will be well represented, but us Southerners are far more apathetic, I'm afraid!

You know, I think that all of us have our own individual bias - but I don''t think that's altogether a bad thing. At least it would get people posting passionately on the subject...

The more I think about it, the more I feel that inviting everyone to comment, good or bad, beginner or advanced, is a good thing, as one person's ideal class, might well be someone else's torment....

Add to that; venue information, travel, things nearby etc..would make for an interesting read - i can even foresee 'venue of the year' awards....;)

That would be cool, I agree. And very difficult to do with my proposed format. The H2G2 format would be far better.

Franck

7th-February-2003, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
What I initially meant was to have 'official' reviewers rather than a forum format where just anyone can post. I suggested at first that they could be a mix of beginners,intermediate and advanced dancers and thats maybe not a bad idea, but the focus would have to be on 'official' to avoid the problems you mention.
... and i wouldnt want anyone reviewing who had any sort of bias (editorial approval sorts that one out) toward style etc (or at least present both sides of the argument) ... Ah, I see what you mean now... in principle, it would be a great thing, but in practise, the cost and time involved would hardly make it worthwhile for anyone!
Also the concept of un-biased editorial approval would be the key! You have read the difficulty we have already accepting judges for any competition!
How would impartiality be guaranteed, and anyone whose venue / teaching was negatively criticized would certainly have to question it (fairly or not!).

Everyone has an axe to grind, and the fact that operating such a website would be time consuming and expensive, pretty much guarantees that the only people prepared to do it, are the ones who would stand to benefit from it the most!

Hmmm, now you mention it, maybe I'll create an area, maybe separate from the Ceroc Scotland brand, and hire a team of undercover reviewers to visit all dance classes / parties in Scotland (for starters), giving them set criteria (that would be publically available) and reporting. The reviews would then be published online and comments could be posted in the form of a Forum... :D :D

The information published would only be worthwhile if people trusted my motivations though, and impartiality was not only guaranteed but evident!

Franck.

Dreadful Scathe

7th-February-2003, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by Franck

Hmmm, now you mention it, maybe I'll create an area, maybe separate from the Ceroc Scotland brand, and hire a team of undercover reviewers to visit all dance classes / parties in Scotland (for starters), giving them set criteria (that would be publically available) and reporting. The reviews would then be published online and comments could be posted in the form of a Forum... :D :D
The information published would only be worthwhile if people trusted my motivations though, and impartiality was not only guaranteed but evident!

This forum is impartial because of its content and in another general dance site it would be evident by the material produced as well as the credentials of the people writing. People can spot bias a mile away. Of course we have to bear in mind that Keith from Chance 2 Dance is supposed to be doing just this at http://www.danceindex.com/ but its been a while and it only has a coming soon logo (with a picture of a truck and a warehouse for some reason!). If Keith is reading this - whens 'soon' in 'coming soon' ?

John S

7th-February-2003, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by Franck
..... a team of undercover reviewers to visit all dance classes / parties in Scotland (for starters), giving them set criteria (that would be publically available) and reporting. You mean just like department stores etc have with the Mystery Shopper concept? You could have Mystery Dancers - brilliant!

My application is in the post.

PeterL

7th-February-2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by John S
You mean just like department stores etc have with the Mystery Shopper concept? You could have Mystery Dancers - brilliant!

My application is in the post.

I think at times my dancing is a mystery. I'll apply.

Gus

7th-February-2003, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by Dance Demon
Maybe it's just me,but......
I seem to notice that when a thread goes off subject, particularly when it gets around to having a go at "cowboys" It's usually our official "ODA" that starts the daviation!!!!
I think we all understand your position on this matter Gus :wink:

DD:devil:

If you had to deal with the number of dancers who has been 'trained' by this hairy wombats masquerading as teachers then I think you may be a bit more 'focused'. As ex-franchisee I had stacks of dancers invading doing lousy drops (much to the concern of the ladies) and the occaisional airstep.