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Paul F
5th-February-2003, 02:14 AM
I hope nobody minds me starting a thread in only my second post but i would love to find out about partners!!!

I'm at the stage now where I feel that a regular partner would be a good thing to have.......but ......what is a regular partner???

Is it your 'significant other' :confused: or not?

Does everyone eventually get to the stage where they feel a dedicated partner is the way to go?? :confused:

Will it improve my dancing??? I can only imagine that dancing with one person , say , 70% of the time may actually make you worse, im not sure.

You see some couples dancing in classes and they look awesome. Yeah, the man may be an EXTREMELY good leader and the lady an EXTREMELY good follower but it is more than likely they are partners.
Im not really interested in competition yet (not for some time to come).

On the flip side of this, do people look down on partners dancing in a class / freestyle environment??

Is it considered 'fake' leading??

I really dont know whether searching for a partner is the right way to go. I would love to hear other peoples opinions on this.

Dreadful Scathe
5th-February-2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Paul F

I'm at the stage now where I feel that a regular partner would be a good thing to have.......but ......what is a regular partner???
Is it your 'significant other' :confused: or not?

Dancing more often with one partner will generally improve your dancing i find. Its irrelevant if that partner is your friend/girlfriend/spouse...I dont see how it makes much difference.


Originally posted by Paul F
Does everyone eventually get to the stage where they feel a dedicated partner is the way to go?? :confused:

I doubt it, but if you want to enter competitions other than 'lucky dip' ones youll have to at some point. Id say that competing was the hobby of the minority though.


Originally posted by Paul F
Will it improve my dancing??? I can only imagine that dancing with one person , say , 70% of the time may actually make you worse, im not sure.

it'll be different for everyone. ive found more problems because ive been to a lot of different venues and learnt different moves - i mainly end up doing them with my partner as others dont know them (and my lead is sometimes not that great to try them - had a few partners in weird positions after they anticipated something they thought i was doing)


Originally posted by Paul F

On the flip side of this, do people look down on partners dancing in a class / freestyle environment??
Is it considered 'fake' leading??


look down? er..no. Turning down dances would annoy after a while i expect but no one i know ever turns down a dance - partner or not. Fake Leading ? Freestyle requires leading by definition - and although a regular partner may well anticipate moves, they would still be following at least some beginnings of a lead in order to anticipate.



Originally posted by Paul F

I really dont know whether searching for a partner is the right way to go. I would love to hear other peoples opinions on this.

unless you are going to be going to be competing, why should it matter? if there is a dancer you really 'click' with and the feeling is mutual just get talking to them and dance with them more. sorted :)

Graham
5th-February-2003, 11:03 AM
The main point of a regular partner is to practise things. For example, if you wanted to compete, then it's a good idea to get lots of practise with the partner you'll be dancing with. Also, if you are interested in trying out new style variations or learning new moves it can be helpful to practise with a regular partner, especially if they have been to the same class and have an idea of what they're supposed to do as well. And some things, such as jumps/drops, need to be practised with a willing volunteer.

You don't need a regular partner to practise with, in the sense that it doesn't always need to be the same person. However, from my own observation (as one who doesn't have a regular partner), I have the impression that people who do regularly practise together learn things faster and more easily than people who don't: for a start there's two of you to remember the subtleties rather than just one, but probably more important is the fact that you'll be able to give each other informed feedback.

Some people have a regular partner who is their real-life partner, but many of us have found that our real-life partner isn't a very successful dance-partner, as there is more of a tendency to fight about who's doing it wrong. So I'm told, anyway. :wink:

I agree that ALWAYS dancing with the same person will tend to disguise any bad habits in your leading, but you can still have a regular partner and dance with lots of other people - especially beginners, as they tend to highlight your weaknesses.

Bill
5th-February-2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Graham
The main point of a regular partner is to practise things. For example, if you wanted to compete, then it's a good idea to get lots of practise with the partner you'll be dancing with. I agree. It's fun dancing with lots of people but with one 'partner' you can spend more time learning/ improving moves. Although I still don't enjoy competing the one good thing in the past was that my partner and I had to get some practice in and for a while the number of moves I could do increased...........then I forgot most of them again!!!!!!!!!!!
Some people have a regular partner who is their real-life partner, but many of us have found that our real-life partner isn't a very successful dance-partner, as there is more of a tendency to fight about who's doing it wrong. So I'm told, anyway. :wink: I've seen this happen as well.......bit like trying to teach a partner to drive ! My dance partner is now also my 'real-life' partner and we haven't really argued over moves.
I agree that ALWAYS dancing with the same person will tend to disguise any bad habits in your leading, but you can still have a regular partner and dance with lots of other people - especially beginners, as they tend to highlight your weaknesses. You can get into bad habits or get lazy because your 'partner' knows the moves but if you practice and it goes well it can give you confidence and that makes you 'better' and so you become even more confident etc...... But be prepared for some honest criticism if you want to discuss how the moves went and whose 'fault' it is if a move goes wrong !

Dancing with Avril for a couple of years certainly helped me and now dancing with Fran has helped me improve................:D

TheTramp
5th-February-2003, 06:23 PM
I have the impression that people who do regularly practise together learn things faster and more easily than people who don'tCan't deny that this is true. The flip side however, is that then, when dancing with other people, you find that you can't lead the move, because you're relying on your partner to anticipate the follow part, and someone that you haven't done the move with before, won't (hopefully) be anticipating, since she won't know what's coming.

I've never really had a regular partner (I'm open to offers! :D) - in all the competitions I've been in, I've only one had the same partner twice, and every other competition I've done with someone new. I think that if you wanted to compete seriously though, it would have to help to have a regular partner - and the same goes for teaching too.

Steve

Jon
5th-February-2003, 06:55 PM
I think that a regular partner or number of partners is the way to improve your dancing. I personally have 2 ladies that I dance really well with because our styles are similar and we both know the more difficult moves. But more importantly we are both totally relaxed and trust each other which definately helps!.

You can spend alot of your time dancing with the same partner(s) which is fine but you should always dance with other people or your leading / following will suffer. I've seen it happen.

And finally just because you have a dance partner doesn't mean you should refuse dances.

Diane
5th-February-2003, 09:10 PM
Never having had a regular parnter to dance with I could'nt say how your dance would change.
At the clubs I go to there is a guy that will only dance with you at certain times of the night, the other times being for his 'partner'. I guess this is fine if that is what he wants to do it's a free country and all that but I have found myself not wanting to bother dancing with him as who knows when he will say yes I suppose I don't like being told sorry it's so and so's time now.

TheTramp
5th-February-2003, 09:38 PM
Heh. I quite agree with you Diane.

If that was happening to me, I'd be like, 'Fine. When you're ready, I'll be over there, come get me'.

And if she didn't, well, like I'd really care anyhow :D

Steve

Bill
5th-February-2003, 10:30 PM
I'd agree that it can be a pain and very embarrassing being refused a dance even if it's because it's not the 'right' time.

I haven't made a set time to dance with anyone but I have to confess that, like some other dancers there are songs that when they are played make me look round for a particular dancer. Only a few but when you feel comfortable or compatible with someone then some songs are just right !:rolleyes: :grin:

Paul F
6th-February-2003, 12:55 AM
Yep, definately agree that certain songs make you hunt out that certain person.

I still wonder though whether having a regular partner would give you that extra spice at the times when you do dance together.

To hear that some men ALLOCATE various slots to various women just makes me annoyed. Above all the great things Ceroc emboddies is the friendliness and pure courtesy of 99% of its members. I would never refuse a dance as long as i am capable of dancing.

The peole who you do see at certain venues who DO just dance together all night are missing out on so much ..... BUT ..... they do look good. I dont think anyone would deny that. I would like that kind of intuitive dancing when i dance. The only way i can think of getting that is to have a regular partner !

STEVE - nice avatar :nice: I dont know where you find them !!

Bill
6th-February-2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by Paul F
Yep, definately agree that certain songs make you hunt out that certain person.

I still wonder though whether having a regular partner would give you that extra spice at the times when you do dance together.




Depends on who your partner is and what the song is :D :wink:

Even with a great partner some songs are still very mediocre but wiht someone you know, trust and can have real fun with - well the right song can certainly give you 'that extra spice' :na: :cheers:

Sandy
6th-February-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Bill
Depends on who your partner is and what the song is :D :wink:

Even with a great partner some songs are still very mediocre but wiht someone you know, trust and can have real fun with - well the right song can certainly give you 'that extra spice' :na: :cheers:

Oh Yes! I find certain music very emotive and dancing with certain people make it an unbelievable combination.

I don't dance with a regular partner either but enjoy dancing regularly with some guys if you know what I mean. It is also very exciting to dance with someone new and go through new moves with them, as long as they can lead well.

oh God Ceroc is just such good fun:wink:

Sandy

Gus
7th-February-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Sandy
Oh Yes! I find certain music very emotive and dancing with certain people make it an unbelievable combination. ...... It is also very exciting to dance with someone new and go through new moves with them, as long as they can lead well.

Sandy

totally agree ... my dancing and enjoyment of Ceochas moved on massivelt since I started dancing with Helen regularly .. BUT, I still remember the first time I danced with Laura, FC, Sheena and Elliots partner (forgot her name:sorry ). I will alwys make time to dance with Helen, but is a Blues track comes on I head for Laura, is a club track comes on I'd love to dance with Clare D (Bowden) or Elliots lass (Coventry) .... ad who knows who else one will meet at the nect freestyle ..... Yup, this Ceroc game is great fun:waycool:

TheTramp
7th-February-2003, 12:30 PM
Elliots partner is Della.

And I agree, she is great fun to dance with.

Steve

DavidB
8th-February-2003, 10:43 AM
I think having a regular partner initially helps your dancing. You have twice the chance of remembering something. You get a lot of feedback when something goes wrong. For doing lifts and drops it is essential. But it should not be exclusive - you should still dance with other people.

After a while it can hinder your dancing. The man's lead can get very lazy. The lady can get into the habit of not following, because she knows what is coming next. You can get stuck in a rut of doing the same moves, the same improvisations, etc. As soon as you get to this stage, make sure you dance a lot more with everyone else. You are actually getting worse by sticking to the same partner.


Not everyone who appears to have a regular dance partner is doing it deliberately. I dance with Lily a lot, but it is not just because we are dance partners, or because we are married. It is because Lily very rarely gets asked to dance. When we go out dancing, the main aim is to have fun by dancing. This gets a bit difficult if you spend all evening sitting down. (We also like dancing with each other.)

David

Bill
9th-February-2003, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
I dance with Lily a lot, but it is not just because we are dance partners, or because we are married. It is because Lily very rarely gets asked to dance. When we go out dancing, the main aim is to have fun by dancing. This gets a bit difficult if you spend all evening sitting down. (We also like dancing with each other.)

David


and I can understand why Lily and other wonderful female dancers don't always get asked to dance. As mentioned on other threads many men are terrified of asking good women to dance because we'll be 'found out'. Having seen the two of you dance many men will just assume Lily wouldn't want to dance with them or that they couldn't match your ability.

It's a very unfortunate backhand compliment for you and Lily. And as folk have said it's the same for dancers like V & L. We also assume that women like Lily, Lydia et al will have been aslked up to dance all night and will be taking a breather. Having danced with Lily a couple of times now and having loved the xperience I now wouldn't hesitate to ask her because she is so approachable and such a lovley dancer but even now I assume some of the best female dancers wouldn't be too chuffed to dance with me or would be too tired and therefore more likely to say no.

But having a partner to dance with has some real benefits and it's nice to 'retreat' to the 'normal' moves and be lazy but the thrill of dancing with someone knew and having a great time is still a wonderful feeling.

Dancing Veela
11th-February-2003, 11:28 AM
I think having a regular dance partner really helps you improve - I know that since I stopped dancing with Bill I never really practise moves anymore and my dancing isn't nearly as good as it used to be. However I don't let that stop me!

Lory
7th-September-2005, 11:27 AM
I'm at the stage now where I feel that a regular partner would be a good thing to have.......but ......what is a regular partner???Well, it's a new experience for me but I think it's someone who shares the same goals in dance as you (whatever they might be), who you'll be able to, do workshops with, practice with and share constructive criticisms with. :grin:


I really dont know whether searching for a partner is the right way to go. I would love to hear other peoples opinions on this.
I've dragged this old thread up and read it with lot's of interest, as I've very recently acquired a dance partner.. :na:

I've been dancing over 3years now and I think i've made fairly steady progress along the way. Starting off once a week locally and doing the classes religiously. ;)

Then, after 6months or so, I spread my wings and tried new venues, where I was exposed to much better dancers, which at the time was a shock :really: as i'd begun to feel quite good about my abilities at my local club but now I felt back to the beginning again! :sick: But instead of making me feel down, it just give me another level to strive for and a whole new lease of life. :waycool:

My biggest improvement was without doubt, going on my first weekender! Things just started to fall into place and feel natural. I enjoyed the workshops and learning all the new stuff was brilliant. :cheers:

My love of dancing has never waned but the realisation of something's of late, I've begun to find frustrating.. for example, I've long since given up doing classes.. (if I do, do one, it's never for the reason of learning something. Let me explain, I might join in, if i'm at a new venue, that would solely be to introduce my self and therefore make it easier to ask for dances later or if there's the rare occasion where there's men over, I feel it's my duty to help out)

The classes that are on offer to me on a regular basis are usually 'move' orientated. What's the point in me learning new moves, when I have no influence over what moves are used in freestyle? :sad:

Once, at Camber, I learnt one of the best routines ever (I can't remember the name of the teacher but the name of the move was something like 'the first move tapper?) No-one in the class could get it, except me :innocent: yes, it was one of those complicated footwork thingy's and suddenly, all those years of tap dancing became worth it... :clap: I went through man after man in the line up, getting more and more frustrated until, WOW I was paired up with a guy who COULD! :waycool: :worthy: :clap:

He seemed just as thrilled as me and we promised faithfully we'd find each other later that night and do it again... I went back to my chalet and practised over and over and stupidly got quite excited when the evening came...... did I ever find the guy again?.... a big fat NO :tears: And never once has anyone tried to lead that move on my since (not that I could remember it now anyway :( )

Dancing with different men is undoubtedly good for my follow but not necessarily good for my style or technique, there's only so far you can go on your own and I think i've reached the time where I'm no long progressing and I miss the progression. :o

There are some moves which, even for the best lead in the world are basically unleadable and after watching couples who compete at high levels, there's no doubt in my mind, that they work out 'mini routines'. Or in other words, a sequence of moves that always end in a certain wow factor way! Unless your fully prepared for that, how can anyone go into it giving it their absolute ALL..incase that wasn't what the lead 'really' intended after all. :blush:

So, moving on... when the opportunity came up for me to have a partner, I jumped at it! And so far, i'm loving it! :clap: :cheers:

The rewards up till now have been...

Being able 'explain' how things feel from my perspective and working together to find out what would improve it for me. i.e. drops

Having the chance to go back over mistakes I've made during freestyle dances and iron out where exactly it's going wrong.

Being told honestly when I do something rubbish or that looks naff and not being offended

Having lessons in completely different styles i.e. Cha cha and Argentine Tango etc. (my head spins when I come out pf tjose but I feel elated and I'd forgotten how good it feels to be learning again)

Getting over my shyness and now actually to be able to look into my partners eyes.. :whistle: Oh no, that bit wasn't me after all :wink: :D

ducasi
7th-September-2005, 12:17 PM
Well, it's a new experience for me but I think it's someone who shares the same goals in dance as you (whatever they might be), who you'll be able to, do workshops with, practice with and share constructive criticisms with. :grin:

... [snip] ...

The rewards up till now have been...

Being able 'explain' how things feel from my perspective and working together to find out what would improve it for me. i.e. drops

Having the chance to go back over mistakes I've made during freestyle dances and iron out where exactly it's going wrong.

Being told honestly when I do something rubbish or that looks naff and not being offended

Having lessons in completely different styles i.e. Cha cha and Argentine Tango etc. (my head spins when I come out pf tjose but I feel elated and I'd forgotten how good it feels to be learning again)

Getting over my shyness and now actually to be able to look into my partners eyes.. :whistle: Oh no, that bit wasn't me after all :wink: :D :clap:

I'm so jealous of you and happy for you.

Are there any Glasgow girls around the same level as me (I've been dancing 6 months, but some of that has been twice a week) who want to experience what Lory has? :flower:

Clive Long
7th-September-2005, 12:29 PM
I have only ever asked two women to be a dance partner

Both because they were "light" "responsive" and "intelligent" dancers. They were about my "level" and I thought they might be keen to progress more quickly than the hit-and-miss method of random partners.

I also really, really fancied one of them.

In both cases they physically recoiled from the request as if they were in a Victorian melodrama being approached by the evil count.

The experience hasn't put me off, and I don't have time now to commit regularly to dance practice, but it was a really interesting lesson in asking the wrong question at the wrong moment to the wrong person.

I'm really happy that Lory has found the right dance partner for her (and the short time I have spoken to Kev he is such a decent guy). Her comments about being able to give constructive feedback without it being meant or received as criticism rings really positive bells in my brainicle - but don't leave all the rest of us behind :sad: . I need my weekly reminder, "Smile, Clive, smile !!"

CRL

LMC
7th-September-2005, 12:29 PM
:clap: really pleased for you Lory (can I borrow him just occasionally? :flower: )

I'm only nearly 4 months in (but 4 or 5 times a week - addicted? me? :whistle: )and know that dancing with loads of different people is helping me improve no end. Sometimes I think I'm doing really well for the time I've been dancing. But then I dance with someone who makes me think I should quit, 'cos I'm never going to be any good (had one of those last night with someone who's competed at very high level - good of him to ask me to dance and all that, but the dance itself was a real confidence crusher :sad: - found him very hard to follow)

Dancing with the same person regularly might help me improve my confidence in assessing my abilities REALISTICALLY and practising stuff with a consistent lead. But reckon I need to get a bit better first so I don't bore a 'fixed' partner with my still-beginner status. Something else to aspire to :D

Thanks for sharing Lory :hug:

Lee
7th-September-2005, 12:38 PM
I hope nobody minds me starting a thread in only my second post but i would love to find out about partners!!!

Good thread Paul F!!

Sorry but didn't have time to read eveyones response :blush:

I think that having regular dance partner/s really helps to perfect your dancing, and allows you to quickly focus on style & musicality (with the help of Amir :worthy: ).

Also, you find that when you know your parner well they give much more feedback about your dancing in order for you to improve, and over time you learn advanced moves with them that you initially can only do with them.

Yes, they know most of your moves and may anticipate and you may become lazy in your lead but this should not stop you dancing with lots of others in a night though. I hate it when a couple turn up and don't circulate.

Lee

Clive Long
7th-September-2005, 12:57 PM
To clarify something I should have written in my previous post.

I think anyone is in their rights to refuse an invitation to dance or to become a dance partner without having to justify their decision.

Clive

El Salsero Gringo
7th-September-2005, 12:58 PM
To clarify something I should have written in my previous post.

I think anyone is in their rights to refuse an invitation to dance or to become a dance partner without having to justify their decision.

CliveClive,

will you be my dance partner, please? I'll even let you lead, sometimes...

JoC
7th-September-2005, 01:00 PM
But then I dance with someone who makes me think I should quit, 'cos I'm never going to be any good (had one of those last night with someone who's competed at very high level - good of him to ask me to dance and all that, but the dance itself was a real confidence crusher :sad: - found him very hard to follow)Come on LMC, you know the mantra!!! :innocent:

Clive Long
7th-September-2005, 01:00 PM
Clive,

will you be my dance partner, please?
I thought we were !

And I have the photos to prove it !

Sulks off

CRL

NOT trying grovelling for dance partner nor sympathy-rep-tart-technique

under par
7th-September-2005, 01:10 PM
Lory so pleased you are happy with your new dance partner. :clap: :clap: :yeah:

I found a partner for a dance competition last year not because I wanted to win anything but because I felt the discipline of practice with a fixed partner would benefit me as a leader.

It was a great experience and really helped me improve.(Big thanks to Jo)

What I liked about it was the 1.discipline 2.feedback and the 3.oppurtunity to learn and relearn properly the hundreds of moves taught for half an hour in class.


1. meeting up for away from class and freestyle events to practice makes you concentrate your mind. Having an agenda for each session "what are we doing today?" Having no other dancers to distract you from your task meant you got on with it.

2.Feedback was the best thing I benefitted from. In normal class nights and freestyles where everyone is out to enjoy oneself nearly all feedback or comments are positive. "that was great!" "thanks that was lovely dance" etc.
You do not hear "that move could have been done better" or "if you moved your arm/leg/head this way this would be an improvement" " you were off beat for half the record"
I am certainly not suggesting that we should all start doing this every night we are all out to have fun and great night.

I found that the honest feedback recieved from Jo and many others we asked (Mrs Par RobC Almost an Angel and Andy Mac to name a few) was refreshing and positive. It lead to us setting new directions for our practice.

I got rid of most of my stooping stature during this phase.(Still there sometimes I know!) :wink:

My biggest and best critic is Mrs Par. Obviously I dance with her far more than anyone else and she is always sure to point out what I have done wrong

Sometimes she can do this a little too much (imho), as I do not want to be "practising" during every dance but realistcally she has really helped me work hard to be a good "lead". To take out as many bad aspects of my dance as possible and pushed me to achieve more.

3. Learning and relearning. I have written more moves in my book than I know what to do with. The ones that make it into the book have already been filtered and are the moves that I liked and got on well with in classes.

In freestyle time though it is not the best time to do refresher training on old moves.
I have always tried to put variety into my freestyle and I found that practicing with a fixed partner allowed me to relearn those nice moves I had in the book.
It allowed me to iron out all the little bits that you forget to write down in describing a move after a lesson. I think the best way to describe this aspect is CONSOLIDATION of what I almost already knew.

Jo and I have not practiced together since the competition but I really appreciate how much time she put in and the fun we had. We still dance when we meet at venues. :worthy:

Most of my practicing is now with Mrs Par :drool: :flower:

Lee
7th-September-2005, 01:17 PM
What I liked about it was the 1.discipline 2.feedback and the 3.oppurtunity to learn and relearn properly the hundreds of moves taught for half an hour in class.

2.Feedback was the best thing I benefitted from. In normal class nights and freestyles where everyone is out to enjoy oneself nearly all feedback or comments are positive. "that was great!" "thanks that was lovely dance" etc.

You do not hear "that move could have been done better" or "if you moved your arm/leg/head this way this would be an improvement" " you were off beat for half the record"

I am certainly not suggesting that we should all start doing this every night we are all out to have fun and great night.




:yeah:

Exactly my feelings :clap:

Lee

__________________________
I'm blonde, what's your excuse?

Gill (Norwich)
7th-September-2005, 01:17 PM
I think I am learning so much by dancing with new partners at the moment, hence all my travelling to new venues but I look forward to the day, if and when, I find a regular partner (maybe I will find one on my travels :) )
Lory I am so pleased that you have found a partner like Kev, having danced with him I know what a dream he is, and I know he is very encouraging.
Call me the eternal optimist but I feel maybe we all have partners out there, be it for dancing or life, we just have to meet them and when the time is right it will happen :flower: (She hopes :really: )

LMC
7th-September-2005, 01:24 PM
Come on LMC, you know the mantra!!! :innocent:
I surprised myself by actually being able to laugh this morning at the memory of my daring to give him a Paddington Bear stare when he called "Duck" after I missed the lead (I *hate* duck moves!!!). So I'll survive, the Ceroc world isn't going to get rid of me that easily.

:hug: for ESG
1 : nil :devil:

EDIT: Lee, hey that's *my* line, you can borrow it but royalty payments will be extracted in form of dances if we're ever at the same venue :nice:

drathzel
7th-September-2005, 01:44 PM
I surprised myself by actually being able to laugh this morning at the memory of my daring to give him a Paddington Bear stare when he called "Duck" after I missed the lead (I *hate* duck moves!!!). So I'll survive, the Ceroc world isn't going to get rid of me that easily.

:hug: for ESG
1 : nil :devil:

EDIT: Lee, hey that's *my* line, you can borrow it but royalty payments will be extracted in form of dances if we're ever at the same venue :nice:

What is a paddington bear stare?

LMC
7th-September-2005, 01:58 PM
What is a paddington bear stare?
An Evil one.

Thinking about it, that dance really and truly was one of the worst nightmare scenarios you could think of :rofl: - but I'm going off topic :blush: , PM me if you really want details :what: :eek: :rofl:

El Salsero Gringo
7th-September-2005, 02:02 PM
:hug: for ESG
1 : nil :devil: I'm just curious - what the hug was for?

TiggsTours
7th-September-2005, 02:20 PM
I haven't had time to read everybody's responses to this, but from the ones I did read, I felt that I had quite different thoughts on this subject.


I'm at the stage now where I feel that a regular partner would be a good thing to have.......but ......what is a regular partner???

What "stage" is that? If you are at the point of doing serious competition, or teaching, then yes, you will need a regular partner, if not, I don't see any good reason for having one.


Is it your 'significant other' :confused: or not

No, its whoever you feel that you dance your best with. Plenty of the top dancing couples are "couples" too, but plenty of them aren't! If you choose a partner who is not your significant other though, you will need to make sure that your significant other is happy with that (if you have one) if you don't, you may accept that it means possibly sacrificing something at a later date. Having a regular partner is a big commitment, be that in love or dancing.


Does everyone eventually get to the stage where they feel a dedicated partner is the way to go?? :confused:

Nope, danced for 10 years, never wanted a regular partner, can't imagine anything more dull!


Will it improve my dancing??? I can only imagine that dancing with one person , say , 70% of the time may actually make you worse, im not sure.

I don't believe for 1 second that it will. All that will happen is you will both start to over-compensate for your partners mistakes. There are so many times I have danced with someone who looked fantastic with his regular partner, just to discover they were terrible to follow! She had been pre-empting all along, as she knew him so well, and backleading. All the fantastic couples I know spend far more time dancing with everyone else when they are out social dancing, and only spend more time with their regular partner when heading towards a competition.


On the flip side of this, do people look down on partners dancing in a class / freestyle environment??

Not "look down" on it, no, but I have been extremely annoyed sometimes where there has been a lack of women, and one of the few men available has spent all his time dancing with the same girl!


I really dont know whether searching for a partner is the right way to go. I would love to hear other peoples opinions on this.

Personally, to sumarise, I'd say, think about your reasons why.

If it is for competition - yes
If it is to teach - yes
If it is to practice - yes, but make sure you pick right, make sure you pick someone who will follow you, and help you to lead correctly, not just over-compensate for when you are doing it wrong
If it is to dance with all night - no, no, no! Even if you answered yes to one or more of the others, don't dance all the time with the same person, the ONLY way to be sure your lead is good is to be sure that anyone can follow you, not just the one girl!

El Salsero Gringo
7th-September-2005, 02:36 PM
Just as a bit of background, Paul_F started this thread in February 2003, that's two and a half years ago. He qualified as a Ceroc teacher later that year, and has been teaching ever since. He's an extremely smooth and slick dancer and I've personally watched at a freestyle night as a whole row of women leaned towards him as he approached, hoping that he would ask them to dance.

I'd be interested to hear his answer to his own question, in the light of the time that's passed since he posed it.

Minnie M
7th-September-2005, 02:57 PM
I'm only nearly 4 months in ......
Although the length of time is not in question, IMO the time to having a dance partner should be when you have developed you own style or feel confident in your dancing ability, then you can really appreciate a dance partner, yet still have fun dancing with everyone else.

IMO I wouldn't recommend a dance partner whilst you are still learning, it can make you loose your confidence dancing with others and possibly pick up bad habbits, like back-leading.

Really pleased for Lory, to find a partner with matching dance chemistry and in your area is wonderful - look forward to seeing you at BritRock :whistle:

robd
7th-September-2005, 03:00 PM
...Something quoted here about whether having a regular partner improves your dancing...
All that will happen is you will both start to over-compensate for your partners mistakes. There are so many times I have danced with someone who looked fantastic with his regular partner, just to discover they were terrible to follow! She had been pre-empting all along, as she knew him so well, and backleading. All the fantastic couples I know spend far more time dancing with everyone else when they are out social dancing, and only spend more time with their regular partner when heading towards a competition.

...Something quoted here about whether dancing with same partner all evening is EVIL or not...
Not "look down" on it, no, but I have been extremely annoyed sometimes where there has been a lack of women, and one of the few men available has spent all his time dancing with the same girl!


I go to most classes with my g/f (which is why I came along to Ceroc in the 1st place :blush: ) and dance maybe 20% or so of the freestyle time with her. The advantages are that we do have lots of fun dancing together and we do some moves that I will not attempt with others for various reasons. However the more we dance together the more we find pre-empting and backleading coming into play (a shoulder slide where I try and step to the left for a 2nd time rather than letting the arm slide down my back is usually a good test for this) and, I am ashamed to admit, I get very annoyed :angry: with g/f for doing these things when my reaction to A.N.Other doing them would be to shrug, accept it and move on to the next move. So I do make sure to dance with many other people on each night that I attend.

However, having a partner with whom I can practice more frequently than classes are scheduled has helped I am sure to accelerate my development faster than the leaders whose only dance experience is a weekly or bi-weekly class.

As for dancing with same partner all evening I wouldn't knock it - people pay their money, they take their choice - I just wouldn't want to do it myself.

Robert

LMC
7th-September-2005, 03:13 PM
good advice snipped, 'cos it's only up there ^^^
Not ready yet then - but hopefully not far off.

Thanks for sound advice :hug:

David Bailey
7th-September-2005, 03:16 PM
I don't believe for 1 second that it will. All that will happen is you will both start to over-compensate for your partners mistakes. There are so many times I have danced with someone who looked fantastic with his regular partner, just to discover they were terrible to follow! She had been pre-empting all along, as she knew him so well, and backleading. All the fantastic couples I know spend far more time dancing with everyone else when they are out social dancing, and only spend more time with their regular partner when heading towards a competition.
I'm a big fan of this opinion; however, I've been reluctantly persuaded that there's some truth in the "incentive" argument, and in the "negative feedback" argument. But I'm still generally right, of course. :innocent:

I think it all depends on what you call "good dancing".

In a MJ environment, I (and I suspect you) will assume this means the ability to dance well with anyone. This to me means constantly learning to adjust your lead / follow to different people every 3 minutes and 30 seconds, and still have good dances whilst doing so. In this case, excessive dancing with one person does not help, IMO.

In other environments (e.g. Ballroom, or competitive dancing), it's much more about dancing superbly with one specific person, or a very small group of people. In that case, yes, you should dance mostly with one person.


NOT trying grovelling for dance partner nor sympathy-rep-tart-technique
{gollum}
Not listening, not listening...
{/gollum}

Minnie M
7th-September-2005, 03:27 PM
Not ready yet then - but hopefully not far off.
Knowing when you are ready /capable is a strange thing.
(been said before on one of Andy McGregors posts)
After 6 months I thought - "Yep, I can dance MJ, and can follow any lead with confidence"

After 1 year - "Yep, I can dance MJ, and can follow any lead with confidence and am learning style"

After 2 years - "Yep, I can dance MJ, and can follow any lead with confidence and have developed my own style"

After 3 years - "Yep, I can dance MJ, and can follow any lead with confidence and have developed my own style but can now dance a lot smoother"

After 4 years - "Yep, I can dance MJ, and can follow any lead with confidence and have developed my own style but can now dance a lot smoother and can play with the music"

After 5 years - "Yep, I can dance MJ, and can follow any lead with confidence and have developed my own style but can now dance a lot smoother and can play with the music, last year I thought I was good, but now I think I am getting better"

After 6 years - "Yep, I can dance MJ, and can follow any lead with confidence and have developed my own style but can now dance a lot smoother and can play with the music, last year I thought I was good, but now I think I am getting better"

After 7 years - "Yep, I can dance MJ, and can follow any lead with confidence and have developed my own style but can now dance a lot smoother and can play with the music, last year I thought I was good, but now I think I am getting better"

After 8 years - "Yep, I can dance MJ, and can follow any lead with confidence and have developed my own style but can now dance a lot smoother and can play with the music, last year I thought I was good, but now I think I am getting better"

Addition: Dancing partner this year - but he lived in Nottingham which made it difficult to practice - lucky Lory, I haven't met anyone locally that I have that magic with (and who doesn't have a partner already, let alone want me as a partner :whistle: )

After 9 years - "Yep, I can dance MJ, and can follow any lead with confidence and have developed my own style but can now dance a lot smoother and can play with the music, last year I thought I was good, but now I think I am getting better"

After 10 years - "Yep, I can dance MJ, and can follow any lead with confidence and have developed my own style but can now dance a lot smoother and can play with the music, last year I thought I was good, but now I think I am getting better"

I started dancing in 1994 and I am still learning ................. I feel, that I am a better dancer than I was last year

under par
7th-September-2005, 03:47 PM
I go to most classes with my g/f (which is why I came along to Ceroc in the 1st place :blush: ) and dance maybe 20% or so of the freestyle time with her. The advantages are that we do have lots of fun dancing together and we do some moves that I will not attempt with others for various reasons. However the more we dance together the more we find pre-empting and backleading coming into play (a shoulder slide where I try and step to the left for a 2nd time rather than letting the arm slide down my back is usually a good test for this) and, I am ashamed to admit, I get very annoyed :angry:

This is where it can be difficult with regular partner as a leader IMHO....this is where you work hard and must not end up stale doing the same old moves/routine. :what:

I really really TRY to mix up my moves as much as posible and really try not to follow one move with the same next move.

My aim is not to be predictable.

Try to keep your follower on her toes wondering what is next!!!!!!

The downside to this policy is you can make more mistakes and and catch yourself out as well as your follower :rofl:












As for dancing with same partner all evening I wouldn't knock it - people pay their money, they take their choice - I just wouldn't want to do it myself.

Robert

:yeah: :yeah:

Each to there own, I'll go along with that :worthy: :worthy:

Lory
7th-September-2005, 05:10 PM
don't leave all the rest of us behind :sad: . I need my weekly reminder, "Smile, Clive, smile !!"


No chance of that my friend, 'I' need my weekly giggle! :D

I'm only nearly 4 months in and know that dancing with loads of different people is helping me improve no end. :yeah: IMO it's only when you feel you've come to the end of your natural learning curve.... for months you've noticed no change/improvement and you no longer get anything out of the regular lessons, maybe (but not in my case) you've stopped enjoying it as much or you fancy entering comps, then you might consider it! :hug:


I hate it when a couple turn up and don't circulate.


:yeah: But we're still in the very early stages and trying our best to work out a good balance. ;)

And there's another issue, 'people' are so used to me dancing with everyone and anyone ALL the time, that I'm feeling obliged/compelled to explain myself. :confused: :blush:

Its a strange mix of really enjoying myself and getting the most out of the evening and feeling self conscious and selfish, (especially if there's loads of women over) and also letting down my regulars...



as someone else said, maybe 20% will turn out to be about the right balance :confused: but you can't plan these things, when you go to different venues, each night, has different dynamics

But I certainly don't want to become exclusive.. (anyhow, I'm sure Kev will get sick of me soon enough :tears: )




1. meeting up for away from class and freestyle events to practice makes you concentrate your mind. Having an agenda for each session "what are we doing today?" Having no other dancers to distract you from your task meant you got on with it.
:yeah: We're going to do that. (i'll leave all the planning to him though :D I can't be wrong then :wink: )


2.Feedback was the best thing I benefitted from. In normal class nights and freestyles where everyone is out to enjoy oneself nearly all feedback or comments are positive. "that was great!" "thanks that was lovely dance" etc.Of course and that's also a nice thing! ;)


Not "look down" on it, no, but I have been extremely annoyed sometimes where there has been a lack of women, and one of the few men available has spent all his time dancing with the same girl!

I know what you mean and I can sympathise, although i haven't really got annoyed with any of the guys, i've just envied the girl! :devil:

look forward to seeing you at BritRock :whistle:
:what: who said anything about competitions? :what:

DavidB
7th-September-2005, 06:02 PM
I think it all depends on what you call "good dancing".
In a MJ environment, I (and I suspect you) will assume this means the ability to dance well with anyone. This to me means constantly learning to adjust your lead / follow to different people every 3 minutes and 30 seconds, and still have good dances whilst doing so. In this case, excessive dancing with one person does not help, IMO.And how does dancing with lots of people help, if you don't get any feedback, and consequently keep making the same mistakes that you don't even know you are making. Everyone makes mistakes. Just dancing as much as you can with as many different people you can find is only guaranteed to increase your laundry bill.

People learn a lot from their mistakes. If you don't know you are making any, then you will find it harder to improve. At the other extreme, you can benefit a lot from other people's solutions to their mistakes. But every way of actively trying to improve your dancing has its potential pitfalls.

- Private lessons with one teacher limits you to their knowledge (and costs money!)
- Private lessons with lots of teachers can get confusing (and costs even more money)
- Having a dance partner for practice can mean that you get so used to each other that some aspects of your dancing get worse.
- Going to workshops can cost almost as much as private lessons, and you may not be able to practice what you learn.
- Just going to lessons rarely teaches you more than moves.

The best dancers I know don't just rely on one method. They mix and match their approach as they see fit, or as time, money and circumstances dictate.

And the majority of dancers seem to be quite happy with the way they dance. They don't want to know their mistakes because it might detract from their enjoyment. As long as they don't hurt me I have no problem with this.

DavidB

Andreas
7th-September-2005, 06:22 PM
And how does dancing ........... {lotsa really good points}

Very good post! :yeah: :flower:

under par
7th-September-2005, 06:27 PM
Very good post! :yeah: :flower: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :worthy:

Kev F
7th-September-2005, 06:44 PM
I think that having regular dance partner/s really helps to perfect your dancing, and allows you to quickly focus on style & musicality (with the help of Amir :worthy: ).

Very true...I think it allows you to try moves which you learn in the lesson but are maybe a little cautious to try. But this also means that once you get the feel for something new, you can pass it on to others with confidence and they can benefit too. :clap:



Also, you find that when you know your partner well they give much more feedback about your dancing in order for you to improve, and over time you learn advanced moves with them that you initially can only do with them.

Lorys feedback has me in tears regularly :tears: What's that saying..'cruel to be kind!' :sad:

The feedback she offered was harsh (not that i'm going to reveal all) but fair.
I just wish I had been given feedback sooner :sad:

There are so many moves, which us men all know, which require a degree of insight from the lady....and this is great having the opportunity to use some of these. But I am a big fan of leadable moves. :clap:


Yes, they know most of your moves and may anticipate and you may become lazy in your lead.....

Of yes...but you strive to add new things to keep a lady guessing. It definitely encourages you to expand your repertoire. I would never like to offer a lazy lead to lory as she is likely to rip my arm off by mistake :rofl:


but this should not stop you dancing with lots of others in a night though. I hate it when a couple turn up and don't circulate.

Lee

Exactly right....The logistics of dancing with Lory for a couple of consectutive dances will naturally mean the man will need a lay down to recover for half hour after. :rofl: And Lory has kindly introduced me to lots of the lovely forumite beauties (and Andy McGregor) which means she will need to fight for me now :devil: And I love dancing with every one of them. :flower:

Most importantly, a partnership is about having fun progressing the dance and being able to share that enjoyment with others.

under par
7th-September-2005, 06:56 PM
Most importantly, a partnership is about having fun progressing the dance and being able to share that enjoyment with others.

Fun is the most important aspect of doing anything.........you will go far with that mantra.......lucky Lory :yeah:

Minnie M
7th-September-2005, 07:14 PM
.....And Lory has kindly introduced me to lots of the lovely forumite beauties (and Andy McGregor) ....../snip/...... And I love dancing with every one of them....
(with Jewish accent)...and Andy is not a forumite beauty :o ..... hey ho... well at least you still love dancing with him :rolleyes:

Tiggerbabe
7th-September-2005, 07:38 PM
when he called "Duck" after I missed the lead (I *hate* duck moves!!!).
If you missed the lead, he obviously didn't lead it very well then :hug: ...... at the risk of every man I dance with doing this move from now on :eek: (and CJ - NOOOOO!) this is my least favourite move ever *GRRRRR* if the guy can't lead it and resorts to shouting at me

closely followed by the one that goes "SIT" :sick:

WittyBird
7th-September-2005, 08:51 PM
Lory I am so pleased that you have found a partner like Kev, having danced with him I know what a dream he is, and I know he is very encouraging.
Call me the eternal optimist but I feel maybe we all have partners out there, be it for dancing or life, we just have to meet them and when the time is right it will happen :flower: (She hopes :really: )


:yeah: Congrats to Lory & KevF. You do look amazing when you dance together :grin: I am green with envy, just hope i get to the standard of getting one! :rofl:

David Bailey
8th-September-2005, 08:49 AM
And how does dancing with lots of people help, if you don't get any feedback, and consequently keep making the same mistakes that you don't even know you are making.
Don't ask me, I just make it up as I go - I'd shudder to think what I look like dancing sometimes :)

Seriously, as a lead, dancing with different people means you almost have to adjust to different styles, different body types, different energy levels (not getting all Ash-like here, just some people are more energetic partners than others), different levels of active / passive following and so on. So your "dancing with other people" skills will improve with practice, assuming you want to improve your dancing, and if you think about how your dancing.

It's certainly harder to know what you're doing wrong if you haven't got someone giving you regular and constructive feedback on a professional level. But of course, unless your partner is also a professional, that feedback might be "And this is what you're doing wrong with me" as much as "And this is what you're doing wrong in general".


Everyone makes mistakes. Just dancing as much as you can with as many different people you can find is only guaranteed to increase your laundry bill.
I thought "dancing as much as you can with as many different people you can find" was pretty much the MJ motto. Certainly, I enjoy it, but I'm really only in this dancing lark for the fun.


{ snip lots of good points about learning }
All sounds very sensible to me...


And the majority of dancers seem to be quite happy with the way they dance. They don't want to know their mistakes because it might detract from their enjoyment. As long as they don't hurt me I have no problem with this.
I'm probably in this camp - I'll try not to step on your foot :whistle:

timbp
8th-September-2005, 10:10 AM
And how does dancing with lots of people help, if you don't get any feedback, and consequently keep making the same mistakes that you don't even know you are making.

But simply dancing with someone gives you feedback.

Every time you lead a move and it goes as you hoped, you get feedback. Every time you lead a move and your follower stops and looks at you blankly, you get feedback.
(and there are various intermediate scenarios.)

Dancing with lots of people gives you the information that X doesn't work with 99% of women, but Y does. It's then up to you to decide if that means 99% of women are incapable of following X, or if it means you are incapable of leading X clearly.

And if someone is doing something "wrong" but 99% of women can follow it, is it wrong? The more common problem is people who dance often together get used to each other and compensate.