PDA

View Full Version : Scotland Leroc



DaveP
4th-February-2003, 02:43 PM
Did not know this existed for anyone who wants to know
Leroc In Scotland (http://www.intayrnet.com/leroc/index.html)

Monday night classes run at the Dean Park Hotel in Renfrew
Wednesday night classes run at the Elms Court Hotel in Ayr

and Also Parties

March 1st Cooper Institute, 85 Clarkston Road, Shawlands, Glasgow
March 15th Portabello Town Hall, Edinburgh
April 5th Woodside Halls, Georges Cross, Glasgow
May 3rd Woodside Halls, Georges Cross, Glasgow
June 7th Woodside Halls, Georges Cross, Glasgow
July 5th Woodside Halls, Georges Cross, Glasgow

Workshops

February 23rd Beginners 10am to 4pm in the Dean Park Hotel, Renfrew
March 23rd Intermediates 10am to 4pm in the Dean Park Hotel, Renfrew
April 27th Advanced 10am to 4pm in the Dean Park Hotel, Renfrew

TheTramp
4th-February-2003, 02:48 PM
Hmmmm.

Looks like a bit of a 'stooge' to me.

Registers on 30th Jan, 1st post, 5 days later, is advertising rival jive classes and parties.

Do you hand out leaflets outside other venues too?? :rolleyes: :devil: :D

Steve

Scot
4th-February-2003, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Hmmmm.

Looks like a bit of a 'stooge' to me.

Registers on 30th Jan, 1st post, 5 days later, is advertising rival jive classes and parties.

Do you hand out leaflets outside other venues too?? :rolleyes: :devil: :D

Steve Hardly the first to do that

You still up on Friday ?

TheTramp
4th-February-2003, 03:16 PM
Sure am. Hoping that the weather won't get in the way of coming to what will no doubt be a great night :)

See you then!

Steve

Gus
4th-February-2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by DaveP
Did not know this existed for anyone who wants to know
Leroc In Scotland (http://www.intayrnet.com/leroc/index.html)
DaveP ... don't you regard this as a breach of ethics? As ODA I feel duty bound (:wink: ) to point out that through muppets pulling stunts like this you are in danger of killing the Golden Goose.

Many independants currently enjoy an extremely usefull outlet for letting the Scottish masses know about our events (yup, I'm one of them). However, there is a train of logic that says this access shouldn't be abused by posting something that is in direct competition..... unless of course you will be happy to have Ceroc Scotland flyers out at all your venues:waycool:

PeterL
5th-February-2003, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by Gus
DaveP ... don't you regard this as a breach of ethics? As ODA I feel duty bound (:wink: ) to point out that through muppets pulling stunts like this you are in danger of killing the Golden Goose.


Can I suggest that no-one would consider it out of order if Frank just deleted this thread. Frank is very tolerant and should be commended for allowing others to advertise specific nights. Especially since they don't fall on competing nights as ceroc events. But the beggining post of this thread is obviously direct competition to his bussiness and should probably just be removed from the site.

Dreadful Scathe
5th-February-2003, 11:32 AM
All credit to Franck for NOT pulling this thread - people will make up their own minds. Not everyone who posts to/reads this Forum goes to Ceroc.
I don't think Ceroc Scotland has anything to worry about anyway, and pulling this thread would lessen the impact of having such an Open Forum as this has become.

Siobhan (Forum Plant)
5th-February-2003, 11:37 AM
Is leroc really a direct threat to ceroc?

Come on....

OK it's a mod. jive franchise, but for them to mention their classes here is surely just the same as anyone else, that what this section is for?

PeterL
5th-February-2003, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Siobhan
Is leroc really a direct threat to ceroc?

Come on....

OK it's a mod. jive franchise, but for them to mention their classes here is surely just the same as anyone else, that what this section is for?

The problem with this thread is it is like Burger King advertising Mcdonalds. Most of the other advertisements are for specific nights, Frank allows these to happen and it is an extremely useful resource for people like myself to find out what is going on.
However just posting the URL to a direct competitors web-site that lists all there class nights etc is obviously just blatantly advertising the competition.

If people abuse this section then all will lose it as Gus stated earlier, I am sure Ceroc HQ would not be as understanding as Frank on these issues.

Siobhan (Forum Plant)
5th-February-2003, 11:54 AM
Ok-point taken.

Who is Dave P anyway? Does he run leroc in Glasgow?

Box of Frogs
5th-February-2003, 12:05 PM
Unless DaveP is not his real name then DaveP is not the guy who runs Leroc in Glasgow and not the guy who used to run a Leroc type event in Edinburgh (a few years ago).

Probably just a punter who didn't realise the impact his post would have and who has now run away to hide and who probably won't come back given the reception he got. (And no, I don't know who he is and this isn't me sticking up for him or not sticking up for him).

As DS says, well done Franck for leaving the thread. Leroc isn't any threat to Ceroc in this part of the world. It's been around here for many years and folk can make up their own minds - as they have been doing for many years...

:cheers:

Franck
5th-February-2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Siobhan
Is leroc really a direct threat to ceroc?

Come on....

OK it's a mod. jive franchise, but for them to mention their classes here is surely just the same as anyone else, that what this section is for?You are right, Siobhan, I really don't have a problem with Leroc classes being advertised in the Social events area of the Forum, it is after all the purpose of this area as you correctly state.

To be frank, I am a bit surprised at the reaction this post got, I barely blinked and carried on reading more interesting debate :nice:

What does trouble me more than advertising, is 'stooges' as the Tramp calls them, ie 'fake' new members who appear one day and then sing the praises of a particular website / event / class etc...
I would like all the information on this forum to be trustworthy, so that if someone recommends an event, other readers / members can take the post at face value (even if it is a competitor's event). There have been a few 'suspicious' registrations over the last year, which has lead me to stop all free email addresses from registering. Not totally, as I know many people only use hotmail etc... But I have to authorize them personally.

In an ideal world, nobody on the Forum would be anonymous!

Anyway, I doubt we'll hear from DaveP again, either he was a stooge and will just disappear, or if he was a real person, he'll wish he weren't :D

Franck.

Stubob
5th-February-2003, 01:20 PM
This looks like a plug for Billy Cullen's new website. He has taught LeRoc in Glasgow for a number of years now. My wife and I attended one of his classes at the 'Piping Centre' two years ago, but weren't impressed.

Prior to that we had only attended Rab's classes in Fife which were of the highest standard! Is that a plug?

Wasn't Billy Cullen the guy who posted flyers on cars of people attending a Ceroc class in Glasgow?

Stuart

Dreadful Scathe
5th-February-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Stubob
This looks like a plug for Billy Cullen's new website. What an awful looking website it is too, they should get Franck in as consultant designer. :)
Originally posted by Stubob
Wasn't Billy Cullen the guy who posted flyers on cars of people attending a Ceroc class in Glasgow. This could lead to defamation and may cause PeterL to have a fit :). Wether he did this or not doesnt matter. The particular topic was discussed in detail in another thread and took two sides (!)- those who thought that sort of thing was underhand and unethical and those (like me) who thought it wasnt a big deal and nothing to worry about - after all us Dancers can make up our own minds and if i found a flyer stuck to my car in that manner it would cause me not to ever go to the class it was advertising. Still not a big deal; cheeky and not doing himself any favours is how i would view it.

PeterL
5th-February-2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
This could lead to defamation and may cause PeterL to have a fit :). I hope I don't put over the wrong impression:sorry : , I may come across as a bit over passionate in some off my views but I always evaluate other peoples opinions and sometimes change my own based on them.
I'll try not to have any fits.:)

Scot
5th-February-2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Franck

To be frank, I am a bit surprised at the reaction this post got, I barely blinked and carried on reading more interesting debate :nice:

What does trouble me more than advertising, is 'stooges' as the Tramp calls them, ie 'fake' new members who appear one day and then sing the praises of a particular website / event / class etc...
Franck.

You are Frank Franck. Sorry couldn't help myself. Do I get away with those types of lines and stage? Rhetorical Question guys.

I must confess like Franck I’ am a bit surprised by the reaction if you look through previous posts there are numerous examples of this. An event gets posted and suddenly there are a number of supporters that have just registered. What’s the difference? Thought maybe it was a Glasgow-Edinburgh thing but I see there is an event for Edinburgh as well.

I doubt very much that Leroc had anything to do with this it is just too blatant and I do struggle to see the difference between this and what other events that get advertised in this Forum. Mind you Billy did put in an appearance at an Edinburgh party a wee while ago which is probably why he has a party advertised in Edinburgh in March who knows….

However the comments that intrigue me most are the Tramps (AKA Steve) "Do you hand out leaflets outside other venues too??" Or Stubob “Wasn't Billy Cullen the guy who posted flyers on cars of people attending a Ceroc class in Glasgow?”.

If this is considered to be unacceptable behaviour is it also considered unacceptable to pass out leaflets or sell tickets at a Ceroc night or in the pub afterwards? By individuals who may not even attend the class that night….

I can sense I am getting into Gus rant mode here. Before somebody reminds I know it has been covered in another thread.

Bye…

Gus
5th-February-2003, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Scot
I can sense I am getting into Gus rant mode here. Before somebody reminds I know it has been covered in another thread.

Bye… Ranting .. moi?? Surely not ... I'm hurt by the mere suggestion:wink:
Nahh ... all things considered I think it tends to be the perpetrators of these unsporting advertising scams who get hurt in the long run ... people go to their events, see they're of inferior quality, tell the existing punters and they all troupe off to Ceroc never to return!

Stubob
5th-February-2003, 05:18 PM
Bump.......slightly off topic,

As a kind of regular Rosyth attendee (ScotRoc rather than Ceroc at this venue:D ) what effect will a Ceroc night in Stirling have on Rosyth? Will there be covert fly posting on the cars in the Social Club car park or will it be slightly more subtle...? Mental image of Frank sneaking around the carpark trying to work out which cars belong to the dancers and which belong to the bowlers.

Seriously, will a Stirling class on a Tuesday signal the end for Rosyth or will it be seen as an alternate venue for dancers?

Stuart

Franck
5th-February-2003, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Stubob
Seriously, will a Stirling class on a Tuesday signal the end for Rosyth or will it be seen as an alternate venue for dancers? I would think that Stirling will have little effect. I have no intention of going to Rosyth and handing leaflets :D and as long as Scot is prepared to run Rosyth, then it will provide more choice for all dancers. Stirling is a large city, and will have its own base of dancers!

Franck.

Scot
5th-February-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Stubob
Bump.......slightly off topic,

Seriously, will a Stirling class on a Tuesday signal the end for Rosyth or will it be seen as an alternate venue for dancers?

Stuart

I would not think so the people that go to Roysth have been going long before I took the venue over and would probably go there even if I was not there. Although Franck (Glasgow & Aberdeen and Jean (Edinburgh & Dundee) are separate Franchises they do work together to ensure there is little or no conflict. As for Franck creeping round cars it would not be to distribute leaflets but who knows what other reasons he may have.

Lindsay
5th-February-2003, 05:55 PM
I can vouch that Leroc/B.C. had nothing to do with this posting.... and I do know a Dave P who's a very nice chappy who goes to most dance things including Leroc, and may have written it

I find it somewhat bizarre that B.C. has received such a personal hammering when so many others (i.e myself, John, Dave, ESDS, SSS, etc.) have been allowed to use this section of the forum to give our events an additional plug for quite some time (thank you Franck). Like Scot I struggle to see the difference between this and other events, especially those of a modern jive nature.

PeterL
5th-February-2003, 06:05 PM
As so often happens I am proved wrong :o , perception is different for different people, my only concern was that blatant plugging would cause Frank to get rid of this area of the site, which is very useful.
It seems however that Fank is a bigger man than that.
apologies from myself to Dave P if in anyway I have scared him from the site.

TheTramp
5th-February-2003, 06:37 PM
I seem to have sparked off quite the debate :D

Okie, my reason for questioning the original post, had nothing to do with the advertising. As Scot and Lindsay, and maybe others have said, lots of people advertise dance events on this forum, and I think that Franck can only be commended for providing the medium for dancers to find out about events that they may otherwise have missed.

My comment stems from the fact that the poster had only recently joined the forum, apparently only with the aim of promoting LeRoc, since that post was the only one that he has made, and it went into quite some detail about the LeRoc thing (link to web site, monthly dances and also workshops) - far more so that a casual dancer would do. While other people who talk about their dances also join in all the other sections of the forum too.

I guess another difference is that most (if not all) of the other people who 'advertise' on this forum, are advertising more occasional dances which can complement the ceroc in that area, rather than a straight directly competative every week class.

My post (and certainly the part about the leaflets) was also intended to be at least partly tongue in cheek (hence the smilies). Although, you will recall that the fact that I have been banned by ceroc in London for the last year stems from the fact that I allegedly did this myself. Anyway, time to move on I think :D

Steve

Basil Brush (Forum Plant)
5th-February-2003, 08:38 PM
Well ended Trampie..............

Forget the politics, get on those shoes and shake that bootie. I really don't care- I'll go to anything so long as it is value for money and good music. I found an event via this forum, went to it, and thought it was far superior to any Ceroc night. But I still come back to Ceroc, and always will, I hope!
:D

DaveP
7th-February-2003, 04:39 PM
I am a bit annoyed by this.

I have posted some information that may be of use to fellow dancers and I have now been criticised severely by others who benefit from the existence of ceroc.

I have looked through this forum and there are numerous people advertising non ceroc events that compete directly with ceroc and yet they have not been treated in the same way. If we just take the people that have contributed to this thread.

We have the

Tramp by his own omission banned from ceroc for competing against them.
Competition with ceroc = Yes

Gus - an ex ceroc teacher now teaching for blitz.
Has advertised on the forum = yes
Blatant = yes
Competition with ceroc = yes

Lindsay advertises on the forum and directly at ceroc venues.
Blatant = yes
Competition with ceroc = yes

Yet no one has criticised any of their advertising. I would say that both the Tramp and Gus are being a little hypocritical. At least Lindsay openly admits she is targeting the ceroc dancers.

Ceroc has a large base of dancers and I see no reason why others should not benefit from that. However before you criticise others at least be honest with yourselves.

PeterL
7th-February-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by DaveP
I am a bit annoyed by this.

I have posted some information that may be of use to fellow dancers and I have now been criticised severely by others who benefit from the existence of ceroc.

I have looked through this forum and there are numerous people advertising non ceroc events that compete directly with ceroc and yet they have not been treated in the same way. If we just take the people that have contributed to this thread.


If you see my previous post I have apologised and hope you have not taken offense, I think the general feeling of others was that it was your only post and therefore a bit suspect. By sticking up for yourself you are proving me and them wrong.

Well done.

Gus
7th-February-2003, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by DaveP
I am a bit annoyed by this.

Gus - an ex ceroc teacher now teaching for blitz.
Has advertised on the forum = yes
Blatant = yes
Competition with ceroc = yes

Ceroc has a large base of dancers and I see no reason why others should not benefit from that. However before you criticise others at least be honest with yourselves.

Pal ... I DON'T compete with Ceroc .. I happen to work WITH them and the likes of Chance to Dance etc. Any advertsising I do on the Forum has always been done with agreement ... not just parasiting off another organisation (IMHO :wink: )

PeterL
7th-February-2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Gus
Pal ... I DON'T compete with Ceroc .. I happen to work WITH them and the likes of Chance to Dance etc. Any advertsising I do on the Forum has always been done with agreement ... not just parasiting off another organisation (IMHO :wink: )

I don't think you need to defend yourself Gus, just like Dave P should not have had to defend himself, bet we put him in that position so he is of course responding.:grin:

Dreadful Scathe
7th-February-2003, 05:10 PM
Its quite clear that practically nobody was bothered by that initial post , most of all Franck for the reasons DaveP stated - hes never stopped any sort of dance advertising, so why should he start with this thread. I can understand DaveP's annoyance at Peter and Guss comments. TheTramp only made a joke as the '1st post advert' element made it look like it was someone interested in advertising and nothing else. move along people there is nothing to see here - despite the tabloid prose :)

John S
7th-February-2003, 05:47 PM
Franck is very generous and broad-minded in allowing other dance organisations to advertise their offerings on the Forum, and I guess he relies on the quality of his product, ie Ceroc. As long as the adverts are not overwhelmingly intrusive I don't think they're a problem.

But even if there were a palace coup of some kind and the name over the door changed, most of us would continue to dance wherever we do at present, because what really matters are location, day of the week, teachers, music and the other dancers. I think that's what happened in England when various venues broke away from Ceroc and were re-branded as Blitz, Mo'Jive or whatever.

The only people who could have been adversely affected, financially or in any other way, by DaveP's post were Franck and Scot - and they specifically came on the Forum to say that they weren't bothered.

For the rest of us, it's just a snippet of information to be filed away for whenever we're obliged to spend a long boring evening in Ayr, Renfrew or wherever.

So welcome to the Forum, DaveP - and don't be put off by being slagged off, it happens to us all from time to time, but occasionally somebody says something nice!

John S
7th-February-2003, 05:53 PM
Why is my last post shown twice? It wasn't THAT good?

(I'm scared to try to delete one in case they both disappear!)

Stubob
7th-February-2003, 05:55 PM
John S John S so good he posted twice :D

DaveP, your first post attracted a lot of attention, good for you! I agree with John, I continue to dance at Rosyth as does John, but the venue has changed from LeRoc to ScotRoc (sorry Scot can't think of a better way to describe this venue). I don't think it would make any difference who ran this venue as it is the dancers who make it.

I posted a response before just saying that I wasn't impressed with the LeRoc in Glasgow, and wouldn't go back. This, I am sure will not put people off trying Billy's classes, if only for a change. Variety is the spice of life after all.

Stuart

Gus
7th-February-2003, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by John S
The only people who could have been adversely affected, financially or in any other way, by DaveP's post were Franck and Scot - and they specifically came on the Forum to say that they weren't bothered.

For the rest of us, it's just a snippet of information to be filed away for whenever we're obliged to spend a long boring evening in Ayr, Renfrew or wherever.


I'm sorry if my comments were taken as been over the top or I was reacting to something that really didn't affect me. My comments were not entirely focused on DaveP's post as much as trying to make a general point that I believed to be valid. If the consensus of the forum is that was making a mountain out of a molehill .... AOK, but I was just expressing a view in the same way that DaveP was ..... unfortunately DaveP managed to hit (yet another) sore nerve :tears:

I think that the Scottish dancers have been most fortunate to have not had to endure the politics, dirty tricks and some of the plain nastiness that has clouded the dance scene elsewhere ..... anyway ... apologies tendered.:sorry

Basil Brush (Forum Plant)
7th-February-2003, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Gus
I think that the Scottish dancers have been most fortunate to have not had to endure the politics, dirty tricks and some of the plain nastiness that has clouded the dance scene elsewhere .....

And long may that continue, but this section of the forum does not appear to be helping matters!

Gus
8th-February-2003, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by Basil Brush
And long may that continue, but this section of the forum does not appear to be helping matters!

Au contraire ... ill feeling and unthought reponses in the real world are often a result of lack of communication and lack of an understanding of other parties positions. If nothing else this forum has openned up communications .... that in itself has helped different views to be expressed ... and that can only be for the better.

If one likes to hide behind a view of the world ... that is an individuals cjoice. If one really wants to understand why someone does what they do, then open communication is the key...

..... sorry ... just having a 'Confucious' moment....:wink:

TheTramp
9th-February-2003, 08:35 PM
We have the
Tramp by his own omission banned from ceroc for competing against them.
Competition with ceroc = Yes

Yet no one has criticised any of their advertising. I would say that both the Tramp and Gus are being a little hypocriticalSorry. Can't let this lie, as I try never to be hypocritical, and I've been accused of it.

I have never advertised anything on this forum - except for a dance for charity, (Mencap) held in Brighton, and which I am in no way involved in running or benefiting from (although, I am teaching a class, for free, since it is for charity). Which probably makes it difficult for anyone to criticise my advertising, since there really isn't any. Get your facts right.

And, as my original post says, I'm not criticising you or commenting for the advertising you did. Merely that you had only ever posted the one post, about a class that is in direct weekly/monthly and workshop competition with ceroc, and have never posted in any other thread on this forum before, or since.

Everyone else takes a full role in all threads on this forum, and doesn't appear to merely be here to advertise. Unlike yourself.

However, as both Franck and Scot have said, they aren't that worried. People will make their own minds up where to go, and if someone is offering a superior product, then there will be little that they can do to stop people finding out about it, or switching their alliegence (other than by raising the standard of their own product of course).

'Nuff said. I'll shut up now.

Steve