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Minnie M
20th-December-2005, 01:38 AM
I know we have had a similar thread about this - but why do some organiser 'Up the Price' this time of year, even when sometimes their costs are the same. Is it to cover the mince pies ? The extra half hour of time ?? or the sweeties on the tables ?

Surely the organisers should be giving something back this time of year not trying to take advantage of the season.

To charge £10 for a midweek dance/class, is OTT - adding a pound per person should cover the extra hall costs and the mince pies etc., should be a thank you from the organisers to us :rolleyes:

frodo
20th-December-2005, 02:35 AM
I know we have had a similar thread about this - but why do some organiser 'Up the Price' this time of year, even when sometimes their costs are the same. Is it to cover the mince pies ? The extra half hour of time ?? or the sweeties on the tables ?

Surely the organisers should be giving something back this time of year not trying to take advantage of the season.

To charge £10 for a midweek dance/class, is OTT - adding a pound per person should cover the extra hall costs and the mince pies etc., should be a thank you from the organisers to us :rolleyes:

Maybe the numbers drop off very near Christmas ?

Perhaps the organisers / hall caretakers should/do get overtime rates for working around Christmas.

Personally I'd strongly prefer the price was put up rather than not hold Christmas time events - for once in the year I usually have plenty of time to dance, but not always the opportunity.

Some dance schools stop classes well before Chistmas so I appreciate it that Modern Jive classes usually keep their Christmas break fairly short.

Minnie M
20th-December-2005, 09:20 AM
..........Perhaps the organisers / hall caretakers should/do get overtime rates for working around Christmas..

IMHO This should only relate to the ones between 23rd December and 2nd Jan :flower: that is when the costs go up :rolleyes:

Please read this bit of my post again ....


To charge £10 for a midweek dance/class, is OTT - adding a pound per person should cover the extra hall costs - and the mince pies etc., should be a thank you from the organisers to us

Add a pound or even £2 ......but by adding £3 + is taking advantage, and I do think the mince pies should be a "thank you" to us, we shouldn't have to pay for them.

Should have added this to the Bah Hambug thread :whistle:

philsmove
20th-December-2005, 09:25 AM
Come to Bristol My Luv

Class Dance and Mince Pies £4.50 :cheers:

under par
20th-December-2005, 09:35 AM
Come to Bristol My Luv

Class Dance and Mince Pies £4.50 :cheers:



Only £7 with a lesson and £6 without EVEN when the panto was on at Kent House so you do not need to go as far as Bristol if you don't want to!!!:D





Although I'm sure it's great over there!!:yeah: :yeah:

TiggsTours
20th-December-2005, 10:08 AM
I think that the one that has to be the least value for money at this time of year is Franco's New Years Eve bash. £30! How on earth can he justify that price? Ok so there's a buffet, but the only other thing is the free bar which, seeing as most people will have to drive there anyway, means free water, ever heard of a tap?

clevedonboy
20th-December-2005, 10:15 AM
Come to Bristol My Luv

Class Dance and Mince Pies £4.50 :cheers:

Graeme & Ann's do was perhaps even better VFM

Class, dance, grub, drink & 2 stunning demo dances by G&A for £5

I reckon it's £40+ in petrol for Minnie to come to Bristol though, so the economics is a bit iffy

jivecat
20th-December-2005, 11:01 AM
I absolutely agree with Minnie. When they double the price I can only do half the dancing and I don't want to eat the mince pies anyway.
When's this Bristol bash, anyway, I've always fancied getting down to Bristol to dance!

clevedonboy
20th-December-2005, 12:04 PM
When's this Bristol bash, anyway, I've always fancied getting down to Bristol to dance!

Sorry both events referred to have been and gone

Bristol has classes tonight and tomorrow and then becomes virtually torpid until January

Going back to Minnie's post (which I rudely ignored) - I agree. If a venue even doubles it's price this should not add a great deal to the cost of a night per dancer, so unless you are offering a band, highly paid cabaret or quality grub, there's no excuse for charging rip off rates (don't get me started on calling something a ball rather than a dance)

SilverFox
20th-December-2005, 12:54 PM
I think that the one that has to be the least value for money at this time of year is Franco's New Years Eve bash. £30! How on earth can he justify that price? Ok so there's a buffet, but the only other thing is the free bar which, seeing as most people will have to drive there anyway, means free water, ever heard of a tap?Dirt cheap 500ml cans of Fosters served warm at room temperature :really: and 3 litre screw top bottles of El Cheapo Vinegar Vino doth not maketh a 'bar'. :mad:

(....please don't get me started on the 'what are the cheapest items one could possibly serve in a buffet without looking blatantly cheap?' buffet......)

TiggsTours
20th-December-2005, 12:57 PM
Dirt cheap 500ml cans of Fosters served warm at room temperature :really: and 3 litre screw top bottles of El Cheapo Vinegar Vino doth not maketh a 'bar'. :mad:

(....please don't get me started on the 'what are the cheapest items one could possibly serve in a buffet without looking blatantly cheap?' buffet......)
I haven't been to one of Franco's New Years Eve dances for years, so couldn't have commented on the quality of free stuff, but it doesn't surprise me! I would have been avoiding the buffet at all costs anyway. I've always chosen not to go because I think £30 for a dance at Ealing Town Hall, that doesn't offer much more than a standard Hipsters night at £7, is a total rip-off!

I mean, for £5 LESS you could go here:

http://www.fireandstone.com/page.asp?id=24

and have a 3 course meal, with wine! I know its not a dance venue, but get enough dancers along, and I bet it would be great!

David Franklin
20th-December-2005, 01:03 PM
Only £7 with a lesson and £6 without EVEN when the panto was on at Kent House so you do not need to go as far as Bristol if you don't want to!!!:DThough I hear some have offered to pay $1000000 if they can go on an evening when there's no panto... :wink:

Actually, Tiggs suggestion sounds like a great plan. If we were in London, I'm sure we'd be up for it!

Lou
20th-December-2005, 01:25 PM
Though I hear some have offered to pay $1000000 if they can go on an evening when there's no panto... :wink:

Oh no they haven't...

Paul F
20th-December-2005, 01:52 PM
I mean, for £5 LESS you could go here:

http://www.fireandstone.com/page.asp?id=24

and have a 3 course meal, with wine! I know its not a dance venue, but get enough dancers along, and I bet it would be great!

Thats a great idea!

I have been looking for places to go dancing that are not actual freestyles and I am at a loss as to what to do on NYE. That link sounds like a really good idea :cheers:

Zebra Woman
20th-December-2005, 02:05 PM
Dirt cheap 500ml cans of Fosters served warm at room temperature :really: and 3 litre screw top bottles of El Cheapo Vinegar Vino doth not maketh a 'bar'. :mad:


Yeah I tried that wine once.



(....please don't get me started on the 'what are the cheapest items one could possibly serve in a buffet without looking blatantly cheap?' buffet......)


I think that's easy I've seen the advert for that

Mum goes to Iceland :really: :sick:




Oh no she doesn't :D

ZW

Icey
20th-December-2005, 02:24 PM
What bothers me is when some franchises have their party nights, regardless if it is Christmas or not they don't allow concession entry fees.

I'm a student with an NUS card which I use to full effect for the classes but to attend the party night I have to pay full rate. I'm budgeted down to the last penny every month to afford my fees so to go dancing I have to skimp elsewhere. It's only £2 or £3 afterall.

But saying this, Cerocmetro & occasionally CerocChilterns are good and give me a student price each time I've asked. But CerocLondon gave me a discount once at Finchley but at Ashtons the lady on the desk was so abrupt it bordered on rudeness when I asked :mad:

jivecat
20th-December-2005, 03:31 PM
And another thing - why are so many Xmas nights ticket only? It's a bl**dy nuisance trying to organise them over the phone or by post and it obliges me to commit £15 to an event I may not even feel like going to on the night. What if I get a cold/ a better offer/ don't feel like dancing? (Somewhat unlikely, but it does happen occasionally, especially after a surfeit of brussels sprouts and roasties.)

And the absolute worst is when there's a sliding scale of charges ranging from
a rip-off, if you book in August,
extortionate, if you are a lackadaisical, last minute sort of person who leaves it till October,
to, second mortgage application if you are feckless enough to wish to go dancing on the spur of the festive moment.

TiggsTours
20th-December-2005, 04:59 PM
OK, I wasn't quite expecting so many people to contact me thinking it was a good idea to go to this Fire & Stone place!

I've just sent them an email to see what the availability is, if they still have a decent amount of space, I'll see if I can arrange something.

David Bailey
22nd-December-2005, 10:36 AM
I've always chosen not to go because I think £30 for a dance at Ealing Town Hall, that doesn't offer much more than a standard Hipsters night at £7, is a total rip-off!
I just got an email from MamboCity (who do the salsa thing downstairs at Ealing) - they go on until 2am, they have a buffet etc (plus other party things), and the cost is £16 in advance, £18 23rd Dec, £20 on the Door. Oh, and you can buy tickets online...

So NYE doesn't have to be massively expensive, even at Ealing Town Hall... :innocent:

Chicky
22nd-December-2005, 10:52 AM
As an organiser, it's difficult to strike a balance. We have our Christmas Party tonight in Herne Bay, Kent and we've NOT put the price up, but are still providing a buffet for 200 people, plus some free drinks. We've also got 2 DJs to pay for plus extra bar staff. We will more than likely make a loss for tonight.

However....This is our way of saying thank you to our dancers that come to us regularly and to give something back to them.

On a Saturday night/Christmas period it's really hard as they sometimes charge us 5 x the regular booking fee and if you double the ticket price to £12to pay for all the extras and of course hall hire, people complain!! I've realised that you can't please everyone and that despite your best efforts to put on a brilliant night, there will always be those that aren't happy.

Numbers do drop in December and sometimes you can't get the hall, so you potentially lose income, perhaps that's why people inflate their prices slightly, to make up for the loss......

LMC
22nd-December-2005, 10:56 AM
Double the price is just about fair enough for extra time/a buffet, especially as most people understand that venue hire etc. does tend to be more expensive at this time of year.

But £30 is four times the price of a regular freestyle - and as DJ has pointed out MamboCity's charges on the same night at the same venue are considerably less, I can't see what justifies Ealing's high charges. If the tickets are subsidising the free bar, then "No thanks" - I'd rather have a paid for bar (with COLD drinks) and lower ticket prices, especially given that the bar at Ealing is, to put not too fine a point on it, cr@p. IMO, of course.

Icey
22nd-December-2005, 11:02 AM
Well done to you Chicky, I hope the evening is a great one. It's nice to see that organisers do appreciate their punters ad give them something back. Next question ... do you still offer concessions on the big nights when you do have higher prices as not all organisers do :( if so I'm coming down your way.

Chicky
22nd-December-2005, 11:06 AM
Thanks Icey. We do our best :wink:

To be honest, we don't have many students that come to us, for whatever reason, but we do offer them a £1 discount for those that do come. We would offer at least a £2 discount on a "Club Riviera" Special themed night, of which we run 3-5 a year.

So let me know if you intend to come to one of our 'dos' and I'll see that you're taken care off! www.danceriviera.com

Andy McGregor
22nd-December-2005, 11:18 AM
Speaking as an organiser I'm having a Christmas party at our usual venue tonight and I'm charging £1 extra. This will not even cover my extra cost. I'm paying for a cabaret, an extra hour (dancing 'til midnight) of hall hire, free bubbly (Cava - choice of dry or sweet), Stella Artois, mince pies, tins of Quality Street and prizes for the fun* DWAS that I've not even told people we're having :wink:

But for our Christmas Eve Soul night we have doubled the price from £5 to £10 because everyone (door staff, caretaker, guest DJ) wants to be paid more to work that night and we're expecting fewer people. We'll probably make less profit than we do on our regular monthly soul nights - and I'll have to work Christmas Eve. Yes, although I do enjoy doing the soul nights I do it for the money, it is a business.

On the other hand, we're having a New Year's Eve dinner dance which will have a full Chinese meal, quality wines, choice of puddings, vintage Port, Armagnac/Cognac, cheese board, choccies, coffee and anything else I spot while I'm shopping - and we're charging just £25 a head which means we will break even (hopefully). And our objective is to do that - our plan is to have a great party and have everyone chip in to pay their share of the costs. In case you were considering coming this night is sold out for women but there are 3 places left for men and I might squeeze two more couples in but we really don't want it to be too crowded as I want room to dance.

*the 'fun' DWAS will involve balloons :wink:

stewart38
22nd-December-2005, 11:22 AM
Double the price is just about fair enough for extra time/a buffet, especially as most people understand that venue hire etc. does tend to be more expensive at this time of year.

I can't see what justifies Ealing's high charges. If the tickets are subsidising the free bar, then "No thanks" - I'd rather have a paid for bar (with COLD drinks) and lower ticket prices, especially given that the bar at Ealing is, to put not too fine a point on it, cr@p. IMO, of course.


The food at Ealing last New years eve was excellent

Given it sells out each year I cant see that much of a problem

And 5 pints of orange juice would cost £15 anyway

If you dont eat and just drink water I could see it as a problem

David Bailey
22nd-December-2005, 11:36 AM
Double the price is just about fair enough for extra time/a buffet, especially as most people understand that venue hire etc. does tend to be more expensive at this time of year.

But £30 is four times the price of a regular freestyle - and as DJ has pointed out MamboCity's charges on the same night at the same venue are considerably less, I can't see what justifies Ealing's high charges. If the tickets are subsidising the free bar, then "No thanks" - I'd rather have a paid for bar (with COLD drinks) and lower ticket prices, especially given that the bar at Ealing is, to put not too fine a point on it, cr@p. IMO, of course.
I think the "free XXX, YYY, ZZZ" stuff is just basically an excuse to bump the prices up in some cases. Like all benefits, the cash equivalent is always better value.

I'm sure the main hall is much more expensive than the downstairs, but then you get many more people in it. Assume you get, what, 250 people at Ealing? At £30 a head that's £7,500 gross.

Don't get me wrong, I've no problems with organisers making money - it's mainly a business after all. And for something like the Glitter Ball, I'd be happy to pay that sort of money or more; it's clearly a special occasion, and worth it.

But this - it's just the same venue, with "benefits" worth maybe, what, a fiver a head? I reckon £15-£20 would be reasonable value for money.

Of course, we don't know how much the venue hire actually is for that evening - could be several grand - so maybe that's the main influencing factor. But if it's that expensive, I'd prefer to avoid running an event there at that time.


And 5 pints of orange juice would cost £15 anyway

If you dont eat and just drink water I could see it as a problem
Except that "not eating" and "drinking mainly water" probably describes many or most dancers - and blimey, £3 per pint of OJ? :)

LMC
22nd-December-2005, 11:38 AM
I agree with DJ - Personally I'd be happy to pay £15-£20 for Ealing - obviously I'm a lot meaner than a lot of people since it's a sell-out.

EDIT: Have you any idea how many calories in 5 pints of OJ? :wink: - water for me :innocent:

DavidB
22nd-December-2005, 12:02 PM
Some regular venues in London don't just charge double at Christmas/New Year. They can put up their price between 5 and 10 times their normal hire charge.

£5000 for a room that holds 250 dancers is not uncommon. I know at least 3 places that would cost over £50,000.

El Salsero Gringo
22nd-December-2005, 12:10 PM
Don't get me wrong, I've no problems with organisers making money - it's mainly a business after all.

....

But this - it's just the same venue, with "benefits" worth maybe, what, a fiver a head? I reckon £15-£20 would be reasonable value for money.

I don't see how you can 'generously' allow an organiser to make a profit on an event, and then in the next breath tell them how much they ought to be charging for an event when you (no one here) has the slightest idea how much the costs of running it are!

Ultimately, if £30 is too much for you (anyone) to pay - don't go. At that price, I'm not.


... since it's a sell-out.So I'd say he had the price just about spot-on, then, wouldn't you?

David Bailey
22nd-December-2005, 01:17 PM
I don't see how you can 'generously' allow an organiser to make a profit on an event, and then in the next breath tell them how much they ought to be charging for an event when you (no one here) has the slightest idea how much the costs of running it are!
It's called being unreasonable - hey, it works for me :innocent:

OK, OK... it's not exactly the most transparent information available, but we can make rough estimates.

For example, the standard Victoria room hire rates (from this table (http://www.ealing.gov.uk/services/community/community+venues/hall+hire/rates.asp)) would seem to indicate that, even if the whole event were charged at the premium rate (£288 per hour), for say 8 hours, that's maybe £2,000 hall hire.

Assume, roughly, £1,000 in staff costs (hey, it's New Years Eve), £500 for food and drink and again another £500 for marketing etc., that gives at most £4K costs. And I'm being fairly generous in my estimates of costs.

So on these estimates, breakeven point is about 130 dancers; and I suspect there'll be more than that, assuming it's a sellout there'll be 250.

Again, I want to stress, I've no problems with people making a profit (coz I'm generous), and of course I'm not including the effort involved to build up a venue, reputation, etc. But when all's said and done, it's just another dance night, at Ealing Town Hall, it's not even dressy-up, live band* or anything. Where's the value?

*Insert evil comment here about the band of your choice :whistle:

I dunno, maybe I'm just in a mood 'coz I'm not going anywhere... :moody icon:

LMC
22nd-December-2005, 01:20 PM
It's called being unreasonable - hey, it works for me :innocent:
:rofl:

Stands in unreasonable corner with DJ and sticks tongue out at ESG who is being extremely annoyingly totally reasonable today*

*but we love him anyway.... don't we?

Minnie M
22nd-December-2005, 03:14 PM
As an organiser, it's difficult to strike a balance. We have our Christmas Party tonight in Herne Bay, Kent and we've NOT put the price up, but are still providing a buffet for 200 people, plus some free drinks. We've also got 2 DJs to pay for plus extra bar staff. We will more than likely make a loss for tonight.

However....This is our way of saying thank you to our dancers that come to us regularly and to give something back to them.......
:yeah: :clap: :worthy: :clap: :yeah:
:cheers: Dance Riviera :cheers:
and thank you for being such lovely, and considerate organisors:hug: :kiss:

Paul F
22nd-December-2005, 03:18 PM
At the moment I would settle for paying anything. I have been a typical guy and left it until the last minute to organise anything for new year :blush:

As it stands now we cant get tickets to the NYE ball at Woking (which is a 5 minute walk from my house) so me and Victoria are now dance-less on NYE :sad:

stewart38
22nd-December-2005, 03:24 PM
Assume, roughly, £1,000 in staff costs (hey, it's New Years Eve), £500 for food and drink and again another £500 for marketing etc., that gives at most £4K costs. And I'm being fairly generous in my estimates of costs.

So on these estimates, breakeven point is about 130 dancers; and I suspect there'll be more than that, assuming it's a sellout there'll be 250.

Again, I want to stress, I've no problems with people making a profit (coz I'm generous), and of course I'm not including the effort involved to build up a venue, reputation, etc. But when all's said and done, it's just another dance night, at Ealing Town Hall, it's not even dressy-up, live band* or anything. Where's the value?




Having actually BEEN to the event id assume food and drink well over a £1,000 we were not talking a few sandwhices but massive tables with a very wide range of food

I guess as no one knows the cost of the room hire we wont know the overall cost

lets assmne

Hall hire £6,000
Food and drink £2,000
Staff £2,000
Clean up £1,000

250 * £30 = £7,500

god he is making a loss :sad:

marty_baby
22nd-December-2005, 03:26 PM
....... I have been a typical guy and left it until the last minute to organise anything for new year :blush:





Not just me huh? :rofl: I suppose if it was such an important evening - I would have made some kinda effort!... but hey, thats life....

Paul F
22nd-December-2005, 03:42 PM
Not just me huh? :rofl: I suppose if it was such an important evening - I would have made some kinda effort!... but hey, thats life....

Im secretly quite impressed with myself that I had tried to arrange anything before the 30th December :nice:

Dizzy
22nd-December-2005, 03:55 PM
I haven't been to one of Franco's New Years Eve dances for years, so couldn't have commented on the quality of free stuff, but it doesn't surprise me! I would have been avoiding the buffet at all costs anyway. I've always chosen not to go because I think £30 for a dance at Ealing Town Hall, that doesn't offer much more than a standard Hipsters night at £7, is a total rip-off!

I mean, for £5 LESS you could go here:

http://www.fireandstone.com/page.asp?id=24

and have a 3 course meal, with wine! I know its not a dance venue, but get enough dancers along, and I bet it would be great!


Tiggs

That sounds like a fab idea. I'd definately be up for that!!!!
Plus it would be easier to get home from with the trains running for free!!! :clap:

David Bailey
22nd-December-2005, 04:02 PM
Having actually BEEN to the event id assume food and drink well over a £1,000 we were not talking a few sandwhices but massive tables with a very wide range of food
You'd be amazed how cheap it is to get food in bulk, if you're not talking service (i.e. just a buffet). But getting into a "how much markup is there?" debate is silly (and yes, I know I started it...), because it's there as a business after all.

However, it's clear there are competitively-priced offerings around this year, which probably couldn't have been said even a year ago. If I were free and organised, I'd be looking at those.

As always, yes, it's all subjective and the main point is, does it provide value for you? If so, great; if not, don't go.

stewart38
22nd-December-2005, 04:07 PM
You'd be amazed how cheap it is to get food in bulk, if you're not talking service (i.e. just a buffet). But getting into a "how much markup is there?" debate is silly (and yes, I know I started it...), because it's there as a business after all.

However, it's clear there are competitively-priced offerings around this year, which probably couldn't have been said even a year ago. If I were free and organised, I'd be looking at those.

As always, yes, it's all subjective and the main point is, does it provide value for you? If so, great; if not, don't go.


Well last year there was about 14 people serving the food and the wild boar and truffles was lovely :whistle:

On a serious note i heard a lot of other New years eve venues failed because they were charging £35-£45 for nothing (relatively)

I assume Ealing has sold out now as i got 3 tickets ages ago and there were in high 140s

eastmanjohn
22nd-December-2005, 04:13 PM
..... (don't get me started on calling something a ball rather than a dance)

I'm glad you bring that up. What do people think makes the difference between a ball and a dance.

As organiser of what I call a proper ball it does irk me somewhat when I see other balls advertised which are £10 on the door and it's a disco in the church hall where you're asked to dress nicely.

Q. When is a ball not a ball?

A. When it's a normal freestyle night where you dress posh and pay a bit more!!

David Bailey
22nd-December-2005, 04:34 PM
Well last year there was about 14 people serving the food and the wild boar and truffles was lovely :whistle:
I actually had proper truffles last month for the first time (choccy ones doesn't count).

Didn't like them.

Just thought I'd share that.