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Gadget
13th-December-2005, 01:00 AM
{Warning: depressing thread}

I bumped into an old freind of mine on Sunday who happened to comment that another freind I hadn't seen in an age was not in a good way - his head screwed up by his GF dumping him while they were on holiday together, combined with other stuff.

I intended to phone/e-mail him when I got in.

I got a call this evening from his dad to say that he had killed himself this morning. :tears:

The last time I met up with that lot was at another funeral of our friends... I think that we are going to arrange to meet up in the new year again for a happier occasion.


Please: If you think "I must get in touch with X and see how they are doing" don't put it off - do it. There and then. Now. :flower:

under par
13th-December-2005, 02:17 AM
A very thought provoking post Gadget.

The pain and suffering in the mind of a person with the resolution to actallly commit suicide is extreme.

There are very few people who get so low and have the guts to complete the act.

If you have friends who have a prediliction for low esteem and any depression then in my un-medical opinion they are the friends with whom contact with may be the most strained. The person is less likely to be your best friend as they are the more likely to be insular and have very intense personal relationships to the neglect of all others.

These are all very much generalisations taken from 23 years + experience in dealing with the poor families and friends left after the event.

Without wishing to make any comment on Gadgets friend at all in my sweeping over generalisations, the persons I have dealt with who have been capable of such suicdal acts are not likely to be the selfish many who self harm every other week crying out for attention. They are the quiet determined obsessive few who do not have the grounding in interpersonal relationships that most of us are blessed with.

It is the fact that these people do not generally have the a/ interpersonal skills and b/ the friends/family relationships to talk through their problems/life difficulties which isolates them. Which highlights their undoubted inadequacies and when a life changing event occurs there is no back up system available to them.

All these thoughts are off the top of my head and are not scientifically thought through I do not wish to cause any harm or hurt to any persons that anyone might know or refer to. These are personal observances of mine as I have said over 23 years experience dealing with the surviving relatives of suicide victims.

Missy D
13th-December-2005, 09:09 AM
I have a sad story too!

Last year I was kind of seeing this lovely man who treated me really well. During the same year my daughters father suffered a blood clot on the brain and is still to date in hospital. Anyway because of regular trips up to north Manchester i didnt see my boyfriend/friend so often as i should of. He sent me a text and said he hadnt seen me for ages, so from the hospital i sent him a photo text of me. He then sent one back but,of his manhood. This really upset me and i took it that he didnt understand what i was going thru. Christmas Day he rang me but, i had such a hangover from the works do the night before. I remember him telling me of this beautiful place he was visiting and that he will make it up to me and take me there one day. I was tired and said i would call him back later! I didnt! I should of!! I switched on the TV next day and saw the horrific pictures of the Asian Tsunami. I then recognised the name of this beautiful island he loved so much. I rang his mobile phone and it went straight into answerphone. I heard his voice on the recorded message. Watching the tv every hour I then saw his friends being interviewed saying he was missing. I knew then that I would never see him again. His body was recovered 3 days later. With Christmas approachingI I will always remember him.:tears:

Andy McGregor
13th-December-2005, 09:39 AM
:tears:

KatieR
13th-December-2005, 01:28 PM
Without wishing to make any comment on Gadgets friend at all in my sweeping over generalisations, the persons I have dealt with who have been capable of such suicdal acts are not likely to be the selfish many who self harm every other week crying out for attention. They are the quiet determined obsessive few who do not have the grounding in interpersonal relationships that most of us are blessed with.
.

I have a good friend who due to her current husband/boyfriend situation, has been self harming for some time. And finally the other night she rang me and said that she had been in hospital because her cuts needed stitching.

I have urged her to seek counselling, and for her to call me whenever she feels that she is going to hurt herself but she doesn't. I dont know what else I can do.

It frustrates me as she doesn't seem to want help, yet is quite happy to slice her arms to ribbons.

I find myself getting angry with her but then feel awful for being angry when she clearly needs help.

It feels to me that it is attention seeking but dont know what else to do.

CJ
13th-December-2005, 02:25 PM
For me, personally, the first thing to do is to secure the call: convince her that, day or night, she is to call you before she cuts.

You don't want to talk her out of it, but as a friend you need to know where/how she is. She would be doing you the favour if she called, not the other way....

Sometimes, the only way to eradicate an unbearable pain is to experience another pain. Sometimes, a physical pain is easier to handle than an emotional one.

Good luck. (PMs welcome.;) )

Gadget
13th-December-2005, 02:34 PM
The pain and suffering in the mind of a person with the resolution to actallly commit suicide is extreme.

There are very few people who get so low and have the guts to complete the act...
~snip good post
Unfortunatly... or perhaps fortunatly... over the years I have been first to the side of about four friends who have decided that this was the best "way out". I know that they are still about and doing well, although I've lost touch with all of them now. This one I will always question whether I could have made the difference - if only I had called. :(

As to the motivation: One felt that they would not be missed, that this was the easiest way to remove pressures of family and hastle they were getting personally from people they thought they had to be close to; if everything they did was so bad, and if they were so unworthy, then they would only brighten up the world by leaving it. :tears:
Two were a cry for attention - all their freinds were drifting away and getting relationships; spending time with everyone else instead of with them. Not living close to family, they deteriorated and suffered from eating dissorders first; but no-one really commented on their changing apperance to their face. They withdrew more and more, so saw less and less people, and spiraled downwards.

This one was really intelegent, could turn his hand to anything, had his own business at 17, went to uni a couple of times doing different things, was humerous and likeable. I didn't see him much after I moved out of town, and he had got himself a GF that was taking up lots of his time. What happened and how his perception of the world was, I couldn't even theorise.


Katie - I don't know. All I've done in the past is been a good listener; understanding and showing a glimpse of how I see the world. I hope she sorts it out :flower:

under par
13th-December-2005, 04:09 PM
I find myself getting angry with her but then feel awful for being angry when she clearly needs help.

It feels to me that it is attention seeking but dont know what else to do.

No one in this situation is really rational.

The harming of oneself is not rational.

The reasons persons get to this stage are many and varied.

What I see in persons like this is a cycle of doom and gloom, which becomes a spiral where they drop to a much lower level of misery, self hate and loathing.

They do need help but will deny themselves the help because they do not feel worthy of it.

It is a very long winded, time consuming, energy draining past time assisting these friends as you get no help from them and often they have alienated many other like minded souls who might want to help.

You need to have the patience of a saint to try and help someone who may tell you to "fcuk off" at every oppurtunity verbally or metaphorically when you try and be their friend and help.

Try to imagine this person not as some one with depression/mental illness which is often a difficult concept as the can look reasonably healthy but sick person with say cancer or meningitus, if you can visualise this type of illness when you deal with them it may make you stick at it longer and go the extra mile for them. They often need to know they are worthy and want to be persistantly reassured. Just as a cancer patient might. The fact your friend hasn't sought medical help yet is worrying.

Try spending time with her doing normal things...shopping (so long as hang up isn't financial) sport, games, cinema try to involve other friends.

Try to be normal in these dealings show her what normal is. Like we are prone to do with friends or relatives with cancer we take extra time out to visit, have dinner, play cards etc trying to make them feel as if nothing has changed.
Try not to promote your friend into new personal reltionships as she is not currently the person you know when she is well and not the person capable probably of dealing with all the romance issues.

It is natural to feel angry about their apparent lack of understanding of your needs too but you have to bite your lip unfortunately.

There are no quick fixes.

Long term friendships and many hours, days, and weeks of just being there may help. good luck:hug:

KatieR
13th-December-2005, 04:23 PM
I appreciate everybody's really helpful advice, I know have a bit better idea how to perhaps deal with the situation.

Its hard watching someone you care about in such distress, but even harder when they dont admit how much distress they are in fact suffering.

Im going to take positive action and make sure she gets the help she needs and deserves and be there for her throughout the whole healing process.

Feelingpink
13th-December-2005, 07:01 PM
I appreciate everybody's really helpful advice, I know have a bit better idea how to perhaps deal with the situation.

Its hard watching someone you care about in such distress, but even harder when they dont admit how much distress they are in fact suffering.

Im going to take positive action and make sure she gets the help she needs and deserves and be there for her throughout the whole healing process.I agree with CJ that sometimes for people who harm themselves, it's often to relieve pressure ... and if they aren't able to relieve that pressure, they can feel suicidal. It's great if they can call you .... or Samaritans or someone, where they can talk about their feelings and what they're doing without simply being told that they mustn't do it. :hug: :hug:

McJester
14th-December-2005, 02:28 AM
This one was really intelegent, could turn his hand to anything, had his own business at 17, went to uni a couple of times doing different things, was humerous and likeable. I didn't see him much after I moved out of town, and he had got himself a GF that was taking up lots of his time. What happened and how his perception of the world was, I couldn't even theorise.



Gadget, that is a lovely description of K, I wish I could express what he was like as well you just did, he was a good kid and even though the old club is scattered I know from talking to them that we all felt the same. As for getting together, it isn't going to be some vague "we must get the old gang together" it is something that is going to have to happen before we lose anyone else

I wish I was near some of the old gang, I feel the need to hug, drink and talk of old times.

Just to say that even though I hadn't seen him in over a year I still think of him with great fondness / love, what ever the word is.

And Gadget please look both ways before crossing the road

your friend

P

Gadget
14th-December-2005, 02:56 AM
And Gadget please look both ways before crossing the road:D :rofl:

:hug:

I plan to live forever - I'm afraid you're stuck with me for a long time yet :cool:

His passing left footprints accross my past; I'm sad that he won't make any more, and that I won't have a chance to leave some more in his. But I'm gratefull that he did and that I can remeber him well. Wherever he is, or isn't, I wish him well. :cheers:

LMC
14th-December-2005, 10:02 AM
Sorry to strike a bit of a sour note here...

Supporting one of my friends during my first year at university contributed to my drop-out - of course I am thankful that I was there when she took an overdose (the night before my last exam :rolleyes: ). But in hindsight, I shouldn't have allowed her to become so dependent on me.

Of course we all want to be there for our friends - but sometimes you have to admit it's beyond you :sad: - you can be a friend, but sometimes professional or other support is needed as well and your role as a friend might be to help them find that and be there for them through that, rather than being their whole support structure. However much you want to help someone, you're going to be pretty useless to them if you're in pieces. And as UP said, if you're supporting someone who needs your help badly, make sure you get your own support from other sources (friends/family/professional).

philsmove
14th-December-2005, 11:13 AM
Sorry to strike a bit of a sour note here...

Supporting one of my friends during my first year at university contributed to my drop-out - of course I am thankful that I was there when she took an overdose (the night before my last exam :rolleyes: ). But in hindsight, I shouldn't have allowed her to become so dependent on me.

Of course we all want to be there for our friends - but sometimes you have to admit it's beyond you :sad: - you can be a friend, but sometimes professional or other support is needed as well and your role as a friend might be to help them find that and be there for them through that, rather than being their whole support structure. However much you want to help someone, you're going to be pretty useless to them if you're in pieces. And as UP said, if you're supporting someone who needs your help badly, make sure you get your own support from other sources (friends/family/professional).

:hug: :hug: :hug: :yeah: :hug:

Very well put

Andy McGregor
18th-December-2005, 03:31 PM
Sorry to strike a bit of a sour note here...

Supporting one of my friends during my first year at university contributed to my drop-out - of course I am thankful that I was there when she took an overdose (the night before my last exam :rolleyes: ). But in hindsight, I shouldn't have allowed her to become so dependent on me.

Of course we all want to be there for our friends - but sometimes you have to admit it's beyond you :sad: - you can be a friend, but sometimes professional or other support is needed as well and your role as a friend might be to help them find that and be there for them through that, rather than being their whole support structure. However much you want to help someone, you're going to be pretty useless to them if you're in pieces. And as UP said, if you're supporting someone who needs your help badly, make sure you get your own support from other sources (friends/family/professional).Absolutely right. And, as well as getting an expert in you also need to remember that you have a life too.

One difficult thing with friends in need is to recognise when to support them and when to let them get on with sorting themselves out. It's too easy to say yes to every needy person that asks for help. You can feel holy but you're really not living your own life. The next time you recognise a friend in need ask yourself what might happen if you do nothing.