What One Thing did you learn as a Beginner that was Wrong?

[David Bailey]

As a complement to the If you could tell a beginner One Thing... (http://72.232.2.194/~fpauly/forum/showthread.php?t=7153) thread, what One Thing were you taught as a beginner, which took you a while to unlearn as an experienced dancer? In other words, what may have helped you at the start, but proved a hindrance after a certain point?

Again, I'll start:

Moves
It took me a long time to realize that the MJ moves were only rough guidelines as to how you could dance; that they could be deconstructed and modified as you wished to suit your own style and preferences, and that this deconstruction and modification was known as "freestyle dancing". If I'd known that even 5 years ago, I'd have advanced more, I believe.

Next?

[Gadget]

I've been sat here for ten mins trying to think on something... but I can't.

I doubt it's the teaching; I tend to question and over-analyse everything {really?:what::rolleyes:} so I don't think that I have anything I regret learning... I have a few things I have learned; then learned how to do better, but that's not really the same thing. Is it?

[Baruch]

what One Thing were you taught as a beginner, which took you a while to unlearn as an experienced dancer? In other words, what may have helped you at the start, but proved a hindrance after a certain point?
"Semicircle and step back..."

Also, the constant focus on moves made me think that was all there was to dancing. It wasn't until I started reading this forum that I learned about musicality, improvisation and all that good stuff. Still working on it, but I'm getting there slowly.

[TiggsTours]

I was taught to always overturn. Our teacher thought it looked nice, and sometimes it does, but doing it every time is just wrong!

[Zebra Woman]

That I mustn't say no, it's only 3 minutes of my life.

ZW

[David Franklin]

That I mustn't say no, it's only 3 minutes of my life.Are we still talking about dance here...? :blush:

[Lynn]

I think this question might have very different answers from men and women - esp the moves thing. I think I got to about week 4 or 5 when I was thinking 'stop just teaching me moves, teach me how to dance!'.

What did I learn that was wrong...? That it was usually my fault if I was doing moves wrong (not from the teacher, it was from guys in the class - but only clarified when I emailed the demo in a desperate plea to figure out what I was doing wrong, and she said, well actually...). But this is pretty much opposite to the normal 'its always the man's fault' (equally wrong) though it might explain why I apologise so much. :blush:

[CeeCee]

I've never understood why beginners are told that there is no footwork in Ceroc.

There clearly is.

While they could be well advised not to feel compelled to pay too much attention to what their feet are doing in the early days, telling them that there is no footwork causes confusion sometimes.

[spindr]

Signals.

[clevedonboy]

step back on the right

[LMC]

That I could be a dancer after one night

[Icey]

I was taught to mark the beat with the dreaded bouncing hand :eek:

[WittyBird]

I was told to smile by S38:D

[Gary]

Signals.
:yeah:

[spindr]

I was taught to mark the beat with the dreaded bouncing hand :eek:
You may not have been the only one (http://web.archive.org/web/20021208201155/http://www.cerocnet.co.uk/ceroc_videos/james.avi) :)

SpinDr

[kiwichook]

STYLE ..
What is it?
What makes good style ?
What counts?

I was told that the style I was seeing when I first started dancing; aka "rock n roll" style mixed up with the "ballet style" look that is being taught at our local ceroc studio here in NZ, looked good! :o. I honestly thought I had walked into a rock and roll lesson! 2 years on, that element I hope has gone from my style because I got sick of being mistaken as a rock n roller. And also having now danced in other NZ studios incldg Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane studios, I saw other intrepretations of style. But now I'm still being slated by the very same NZ Ceroc teacher in my small town, this time for the use of my hips???? Yet I look around that teacher's studio and her so called 'star pupils' are nothing but a bunch of funny looking wooden puppets leaping up and down auditioning for a part in the remake of "Thunderbirds Are Go" by Peter Jackson!! :rofl: Can't seem to win here.. Any recommendations from the floor please on what to do next..apart from not bounce?:confused:

[David Bailey]

Any recommendations from the floor please on what to do next..apart from not bounce?:confused:
It's a bit OT - there are a number of threads and discussions on style, including:
- Gadget's mega-musings (http://72.232.2.194/~fpauly/forum/showthread.php?t=6907)
- Can style be taught? (http://72.232.2.194/~fpauly/forum/showthread.php?t=4057)
- The very interesting Ceroc style vs technique vs moves (http://72.232.2.194/~fpauly/forum/showthread.php?t=118) thread
- Style versus self-expression (http://72.232.2.194/~fpauly/forum/showthread.php?t=3995)

Maybe one of those will help?

[TiggsTours]

I was told to smile by S38:D
Confused. :confused:

So, you think smiling is a bad thing?

[Lee]

I've never understood why beginners are told that there is no footwork in Ceroc.

There clearly is.

While they could be well advised not to feel compelled to pay too much attention to what their feet are doing in the early days, telling them that there is no footwork causes confusion sometimes.

:yeah:

[Lee]

That I mustn't say no, it's only 3 minutes of my life.

ZW

:yeah:

Oh god don't get me started on this again:

http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=183306#post183306


Lee

[Andy McGregor]

As I've had to un-learn everything I was taught as a beginner I would say that everything I was taught was wrong. However, I'd never have continued to dance had they tried to teach me what I now know :confused:

[dancefiend]

As a complement to the [URL=http://72.232.2.194/~fpauly/forum/showthread.php?t=7153]It took me a long time to realize that the MJ moves were only rough guidelines as to how you could dance; that they could be deconstructed and modified as you wished to suit your own style and preferences, and that this deconstruction and modification was known as "freestyle dancing". If I'd known that even 5 years ago, I'd have advanced more, I believe.

Next?

Yes. After the first 6 months of ceroc - I had 2 pages of moves. Then when I looked at what they consist of - I found that a lot of moves are very similar. I was not until like 4 years later that I decided to formalize the independent components that are identical across all free stylable moves.

I guess learning moves is not wrong as such. I just think (and from your experience as well), there is a better approach to help you advance further.

Why I took me this long is because I was lazy to think about what i was doing - or rather I was too busy doing free style. Now with this revised approach my partners and I have a much better time at free style - we make those 3 mins of out lives a life's times worth :blush:

[Jive Brummie]

I didn't learn anything wrong as a beginners......FC taught me.:whistle:

j.

[Barry Shnikov]

I was told to smile by S38:D

What's wrong with your smile?

[Barry Shnikov]

I learnt in Cambridge, when Phil and Mick would teach on Wednesdays and Thursdays.

I can't remember anything I was taught wrong. Mick in particular like to challenge us with difficult moves from time to time and I cannot recall any occasion on which there was a complaint that the moves were too hard.

After a few weeks I plucked up the courage to ask a drop-dead gorgeous taxi dancer to dance. Afterwards, I cheerfully apologised for not knowing many moves.

"I shouldn't worry about that," she said. "You have an excellent lead and I would swap that for a wide variety of moves any day."

Boy did I feel smug. For a few minutes, at any rate.

[WittyBird]

What's wrong with your smile?
Have you met S38 ?:rofl:

[robd]

I learnt in Cambridge.......a drop-dead gorgeous taxi dancer

Did you take her with you? :whistle:

[Barry Shnikov]

Did you take her with you? :whistle:

Spoken for, sadly. Well, sadly for me...

[TiggsTours]

As I've had to un-learn everything I was taught as a beginner I would say that everything I was taught was wrong. However, I'd never have continued to dance had they tried to teach me what I now know :confused:
:yeah:

(Feeling totally stunned at having just agreed with something Andy had to say!):eek: :what:

[TheTramp]

:yeah:

(Feeling totally stunned at having just agreed with something Andy had to say!):eek: :what:

You wanna be careful. One day you'll agree with me. And that'll be truly scary! :whistle:

[doc martin]

You wanna be careful. One day you'll agree with me. And that'll be truly scary! :whistle:
No it won't.

[TiggsTours]

No it won't.
Oh yes it will! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[under par]

Oh yes it will! :eek: :eek: :eek:

I'm sorry but it definitely will!!!:angry: :angry: :angry:

[TiggsTours]

I'm sorry but it definitely will!!!:angry: :angry: :angry:
I know! Oh my God! What's happening! I'm agreeing with everybody today! :sick:

I'm going to go and lie down.

[doc martin]

I know! Oh my God! What's happening! I'm agreeing with everybody today! :sick:
I was very tempted to say 'no you're not', but that would be silly and childish :rolleyes:

I'm going to go and lie down.
No you're not.

[TiggsTours]

No you're not.
Yes I am!

Ah, that's better, I feel much better now. :D

[TheTramp]

Ah, that's better, I feel much better now. :D

No you don't! :whistle:

[TiggsTours]

No you don't! :whistle:
No, I do! I really do! And feeling better all the time. :grin:

[bigdjiver]

Beginners can learn so much here.

[TiggsTours]

Beginners can learn so much here.
No they can't.

[doc martin]

Beginners can learn so much here.
OK, I'll take some resposibility for leading this topic astray and post something on topic.

The first thing I was told that I try not to do now was 'Step on every beat', meaning lift up your foot and put it down on the beat. This was at a non-Ceroc venue and the teacher stopped me during freestyle and took great pains to point out that everybody else was stepping and bobbing.

I now find that I am too lazy to lift my feet up and that, beside looking smoother, a more slidey foot movement, coupled with hip movement to the beat is less effort. Plus, of course, not moving at all whenever possible works well for me (thanks to DavidB for that tip in his workshop at the BFG).

The other thing I can think of, which wasn't taught, but seemed obvious to me was that ladies like a very firm lead. For a long while I mistook clarity of lead for firmness. That may have something to do with the amount of noise introduced into the connection by bobbing hands. You need a lot of signal to overcome the noise, and the easiest way to do that is to be very firm. I would wince to think that I was a yanker and cranker, but I had very definite ideas of where I wanted the lady to go. And she was definitely going to go where I wanted. After all, we were told this was a male led dance :innocent: .

My lead has become gradually lighter over the last year. If someone, at an early stage of my learning, had described leading in nice engineering terms so that I understood the optimum way to signal to my partner (with the least effort), I think other aspects of dancing would have fallen into place more easily.

Just a couple of points, but hopefully enough to get us back on thread :flower:

[timbp]

The other thing I can think of, which wasn't taught, but seemed obvious to me was that ladies like a very firm lead. For a long while I mistook clarity of lead for firmness. That may have something to do with the amount of noise introduced into the connection by bobbing hands. You need a lot of signal to overcome the noise, and the easiest way to do that is to be very firm. I would wince to think that I was a yanker and cranker, but I had very definite ideas of where I wanted the lady to go. And she was definitely going to go where I wanted. After all, we were told this was a male led dance :innocent: .

http://www.cerocforum.com/showthread.php?t=2024

[TiggsTours]

The other thing I can think of, which wasn't taught, but seemed obvious to me was that ladies like a very firm lead.
(edit)
You need a lot of signal to overcome the noise, and the easiest way to do that is to be very firm.
(edit)
I had very definite ideas of where I wanted the lady to go. And she was definitely going to go where I wanted.
I'm a little confused, are you saying you used to think the ladies like a very firm lead, or that you now do?

I, personally don't like a very firm lead at all! A firm lead, yes, a clear lead, definately, but very firm? No thank you! I like to be given some space to be able to add my own interpretation of the dance. I will follow, by all means, no problem there, but I like to be able to choose just how I'm going to follow, and I like a guy who's fast enough to pick up on that, and give me that space.

[Franck]

http://www.cerocforum.com/showthread.php?t=2024Ahh, the subject of strong vs clear lead!

A very popular topic which keeps coming back, again and again...

What constitutes a strong and clear lead? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2704)

Exercises for a lighter lead (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4683)

Weak lead, lazy or subtle?? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4943)

Advise pls - RE:Creating a "Frame... lead/Compression... (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5338)

Poll:What type of lead is preferable? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5922)

What's the best way to teach Lead & Follow to Improvers & Intermediates? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6657)

Lead - invite or command? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6997)

Leading without being lead. (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7219)

:wink: :flower:

[doc martin]

I'm a little confused, are you saying you used to think the ladies like a very firm lead, or that you now do?

I, personally don't like a very firm lead at all! A firm lead, yes, a clear lead, definately, but very firm? No thank you! I like to be given some space to be able to add my own interpretation of the dance. I will follow, by all means, no problem there, but I like to be able to choose just how I'm going to follow, and I like a guy who's fast enough to pick up on that, and give me that space.
Sorry for the lack of clarity. 'Used to' would be right. And what you say in your post is exactly what it took me ages to figure out.

*Link to a thread in a place where I am not a member*

*Lots of links to other threads*
Thanks guys. Is this a conspiracy to stop me working?

[bigdjiver]

edit: this was meant to follow Francks post, but I was too slow.

Beginners can learn so much here.

[TiggsTours]

edit: this was meant to follow Francks post, but I was too slow.

Beginners can learn so much here.
Phew! Please ask me for a dance if you ever happen to be in the same place as me then!:D