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Sparkles
12th-December-2005, 02:56 PM
Money matters are difficult to discuss, and I don't want anyone to let this thread to get personal.

What I'm interested in is a general discussion on how it's possible to balance doing the things you want to do with earning the money to be able to afford to do them :confused: ?

As someone who is in no way loaded with money (and who has just had to hand over a heap of cash to the plumbers just before Christmas :sad: ) I have to say that I struggle to make ends meet, but that I manage by strict budgeting and lots of forward planning.

I get irritated by people who say they can't afford to do esential things but somehow manage to afford (what I would consider to be) luxuries.

Of course I don't suppose I have any right to be irritated by this, people are entitled to do whatever they want with their money...

...any thoughts?

LordOfTheFiles
12th-December-2005, 03:00 PM
I get irritated by people who say they can't afford to do esential things but somehow manage to afford (what I would consider to be) luxuries

Of course I don't suppose I have any right to be irritated by this, people are entitled to do whatever they want with their money...

...any thoughts?

You are correct - you don't have any right to be annoyed by this. But that has never stopped me so go right ahead.

It is all about cutting your cloth to fit your item that you wish to cover in cloth. Or some other other learned on the mother's knee

Feelingpink
12th-December-2005, 03:20 PM
Money matters are difficult to discuss, and I don't want anyone to let this thread to get personal.

What I'm interested in is a general discussion on how it's possible to balance doing the things you want to do with earning the money to be able to afford to do them :confused: ?

As someone who is in no way loaded with money (and who has just had to hand over a heap of cash to the plumbers just before Christmas :sad: ) I have to say that I struggle to make ends meet, but that I manage by strict budgeting and lots of forward planning.

I get irritated by people who say they can't afford to do esential things but somehow manage to afford (what I would consider to be) luxuries.

Of course I don't suppose I have any right to be irritated by this, people are entitled to do whatever they want with their money...

...any thoughts?I think it depends on your set of personal values. Some people, for instance, think it v. important to drive, say, a particular BMW and will cut back in all kinds of ways to afford that. My take on cars is that they should be safe and reliable ... and when there is some money in the bank, then you can have something that is more luxurious (but then again, this is the way I've been brought up). It doesn't make me right or wrong - it's just different.

In the job that I do, I spend a lot of evening/weekend time with clients rather than friends, which isn't always great, but does sometimes help with the budgeting. It also means that I almost don't do weekenders because as well as the cost of the weekend, I'm giving up the income from working then too.

KatieR
12th-December-2005, 03:28 PM
I know sometimes I could probably budget a little better - my current financial status is a testiment to my no budgeting have what I want when I want days, and I have to live with that.

Sometimes it can be quite upsetting when all your friends are doing something that you just cant afford to do. Oh how I wish I could have been at Southport, or Beach Ballroom after hearing about all the fun stories.. but it just couldn't happen.

I do believe that occassionally we need to treat ourselves, for example, as a Christmas present to myself I have bought 2 pairs of heavenly dance shoes. which are extravagant and expensive and I feel as guilty as hell, but I really dont treat myself that often.

However, I think things like rent/bills etc should be paid first and foremost, because someone else might be counting on that money and it isn't fair on them.

Little Monkey
12th-December-2005, 03:30 PM
Ah yes, money. I hate the stuff, simply because I never have enough!:mad:

Most months I struggle to pay all my bills. Every month I go overdrawn on my account....:sad: If I want anything, say a new pair of dance shoes, I have to save up for ages. I can't go to all the dances that I want to, because I simply wouldn't be able to afford it. I need new clothes, new winter boots, a new fridge....... But that'll all have to wait, as I can't afford it just now.

I have a dog, which means I pay loads of money each month on pet insurance, dog food and vet bills. And if I go away anywhere, I have to pay someone to look after her, or put her in kennels, which costs an arm and a leg. So of curse I'd have lots more money to spend on things I need and want if I didn't have 'Troll'.......... But she's my best mate, and means so much to me that I'd rather have less money than be without her! Silly? Of course! But then I'm only a silly, soppy and rather emotional human being.:o

Silly Little Monkey

LordOfTheFiles
12th-December-2005, 03:46 PM
If I want anything, say a new pair of dance shoes, I have to save up for ages. Silly Little Monkey

I think the main problem is that people keep buying dance shoes. It appears to be all anyone spends money on. What happened to sensible things like pornography and cocaine?? If you knew that's what you were getting I am sure you would create a more efficient savings plan

Sparkles
12th-December-2005, 03:54 PM
If I want anything, say a new pair of dance shoes, I have to save up for ages.
Silly Little Monkey
This, to me, sounds like a 'sensible Little Monkey' - the idea, as I was led to belive it, is that you save up to buy the things you want/need and put the boring essential things first - you know, like food and water, heat, shelter, health. I guess the amount of time needed to save up for 'luxuries' will be longer or shorter depending on income and the cost of the thing you're saving for...

Some people seem to get-by by juggling credit cards - I don't know how they do it. All the stress of spending money that wasn't my own would send me into an early grave!

LordOfTheFiles
12th-December-2005, 03:57 PM
Some people seem to get-by by juggling credit cards - I don't know how they do it. All the stress of spending money that wasn't my own would send me into an early grave!

Want is a much stronger force than scrimping and saving. Credit allows the joy of "Right Now Dammit" or RND as I have named it

KatieR
12th-December-2005, 03:57 PM
Some people seem to get-by by juggling credit cards - I don't know how they do it. All the stress of spending money that wasn't my own would send me into an early grave!

It certainly is excrutiatingly stressful and upsetting. I wish I had never got myself into the situation and hope that once all my debt has been paid off that I will learn from my mistakes.

I get really angry at myself sometimes for even having a credit card, but hopefully am starting to make a small dent in it.

mooncalf
12th-December-2005, 03:59 PM
Want is a much stronger force than scrimping and saving. Credit allows the joy of "Right Now Dammit" or RND as I have named it

A few years ago I singed up to RND and have never looked back. I get my stress fixes elsewhere.

Dizzy
12th-December-2005, 04:00 PM
It certainly is excrutiatingly stressful and upsetting. I wish I had never got myself into the situation and hope that once all my debt has been paid off that I will learn from my mistakes.

I get really angry at myself sometimes for even having a credit card, but hopefully am starting to make a small dent in it.

:yeah:
Once you get into a spiral of credit card debt, it is hard to get out of it. I am trying to pay mine off now and refuse to spend on it anymore. Hopefully I will pay it off soon.

KatieR
12th-December-2005, 04:03 PM
:yeah:
Once you get into a spiral of credit card debt, it is hard to get out of it. I am trying to pay mine off now and refuse to spend on it anymore. Hopefully I will pay it off soon.


I have pretty much cut up the cards, and only pay cash now, except when I purchase something on the internet then I use my online banking to pay the money straight off the card. for the most part it works... :sad:

David Bailey
12th-December-2005, 04:15 PM
I get irritated by people who say they can't afford to do esential things but somehow manage to afford (what I would consider to be) luxuries.
Oh, yeah, me too.

Funny how all these poverty-stricken characters in Eastenders can always afford London pub prices :rolleyes:

philsmove
12th-December-2005, 04:41 PM
Oh, yeah, me too.

Funny how all these poverty-stricken characters in Eastenders can always afford London pub prices :rolleyes:

I have personal definition of poverty

Not having the price of pint in my pocket :cheers:
I’ve been there once and never want to go back

There is no reason why business or work should not be pleasurable:)

Sparkles
12th-December-2005, 04:45 PM
There is no reason why business or work should not be pleasurable:)
I quite agree, and if your pleasure is your work then you're a very lucky person.
But if you're not one of those lucky people then you have to find both the time and the money to do the things that do give you pleasure...

LordOfTheFiles
12th-December-2005, 04:48 PM
I quite agree, and if your pleasure is your work then you're a very lucky person.
But if you're not one of those lucky people then you have to find both the time and the money to do the things that do give you pleasure...

You just need to find pleasure in the little things. A rainbow, dew on a cobweb, the melodious laugh of a child...

Icey
12th-December-2005, 05:02 PM
It certainly is excrutiatingly stressful and upsetting. I wish I had never got myself into the situation and hope that once all my debt has been paid off that I will learn from my mistakes.

I get really angry at myself sometimes for even having a credit card, but hopefully am starting to make a small dent in it.

Sometimes a credit card balance isn't all 'RND' purchases, I have my course fees on mine as there was no other way to pay for it. I'm making progress on mine by paying large sums every month which makes a substantial dent into my take home and spend money which means I can't go out dancing nearly as much as I would like to.

I am budgeted down to the last penny every month and it really bugs me when a friend who lives with her parents paying no rent or expenses for her or her daughter compains that I don't go out much with her anymore because I can't afford it. Then she starts complaining that she has to live with her parents and I'm so lucky to have a mortgage. Luck doesn't even come into it, I've worked bloomin' hard to have the luxury of a mortgage :mad: :mad: *gags self or will start ranting*

Little Monkey
12th-December-2005, 05:09 PM
I think the main problem is that people keep buying dance shoes. It appears to be all anyone spends money on. What happened to sensible things like pornography and cocaine?? If you knew that's what you were getting I am sure you would create a more efficient savings plan

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

*Wiping away tears of laughter*

But why would I want to buy drugs and porn, when I get all the kicks, buzz and highs I want from life? Nah, I'd much rather have dance shoes! :D Sparkly ones! :clap: Yeah!!

LordOfTheFiles
12th-December-2005, 05:11 PM
Sometimes a credit card balance isn't all 'RND' purchases

It's the new phrase which is sweeping the nation

Little Monkey
12th-December-2005, 05:12 PM
Some people seem to get-by by juggling credit cards - I don't know how they do it. All the stress of spending money that wasn't my own would send me into an early grave!

I'm very proud of not having a credit card...... And have never needed one! :clap:

If I haven't got the money to buy something, then I haven't got it. End of story. And if I reallyreallyreally want something, I'll work my butt off to save up money for it! But I wouldn't mind a really well paid job, though..... (You listening, Santa??)

LordOfTheFiles
12th-December-2005, 05:12 PM
But why would I want to buy drugs and porn

Honestly, you are beyond help

Little Monkey
12th-December-2005, 05:15 PM
You just need to find pleasure in the little things. A rainbow, dew on a cobweb, the melodious laugh of a child...

Quick! Gimme a bucket to vo....... Bluaaaaargh! Ooops!:blush:

Little Monkey
12th-December-2005, 05:15 PM
Honestly, you are beyond help

I know! Hopeless! :D

LordOfTheFiles
12th-December-2005, 05:16 PM
Quick! Gimme a bucket to vo....... Bluaaaaargh! Ooops!:blush:

I hope you aren't mocking my tender, loving side

Icey
12th-December-2005, 05:16 PM
It's the new phrase which is sweeping the nation

Yup, I've adopted it :D and I shall use it too (with my debit card of course)

Little Monkey
12th-December-2005, 05:17 PM
I hope you aren't mocking my tender, loving side

Nononononono........ Wouldn't dream of it! :innocent:








Must have been something I ate........

LordOfTheFiles
12th-December-2005, 05:18 PM
Nononononono........ Wouldn't dream of it!


Well that's the last time I open myself up. I break open my cynical exterior to expose my sofy pink underbelly, and all you do is poke me with the proverbial stick

senorita
12th-December-2005, 05:20 PM
Money matters are difficult to discuss, and I don't want anyone to let this thread to get personal.

What I'm interested in is a general discussion on how it's possible to balance doing the things you want to do with earning the money to be able to afford to do them :confused: ?

As someone who is in no way loaded with money (and who has just had to hand over a heap of cash to the plumbers just before Christmas :sad: ) I have to say that I struggle to make ends meet, but that I manage by strict budgeting and lots of forward planning.

I get irritated by people who say they can't afford to do esential things but somehow manage to afford (what I would consider to be) luxuries.

Of course I don't suppose I have any right to be irritated by this, people are entitled to do whatever they want with their money...

...any thoughts?

Life in Britian is very fast & expensive unfortunely! I have currently 4 jobs going,... and soon to be five. Even this doesnt cover all bills believe it or not! I try very hard to save away into a pension, ISA or tessa for future requirements and a rainy day. However if anything is left over ie cash, energy and time, my treats are...... a night out dancing at the wkend, a holiday during the cold winters as I suffer from the miserable cold, and my classes at the gym followed by the spa and jacuzzi :drool:
The cost of living in this country is crazy!!...especially hurting your pocket if your a single person with your own property etc etc, I feel for those whom dont have a home of their own and are looking...its impossible to purchase any house ...let alone a garage!! AND If we were not tax so much :mad: :angry: we would have more savings :wink: but the taxman benefits with our money :mad: ....and god knows where it goes..cause I dont see anything for it!!

Little Monkey
12th-December-2005, 05:32 PM
Well that's the last time I open myself up. I break open my cynical exterior to expose my sofy pink underbelly, and all you do is poke me with the proverbial stick

Aaaaawwwwww...... Sorry?

Please do expose your soft pink underbelly again! It's so much fun to pok..... I mean, please do expose yourself again! :D :devil:

And could you tell me what your overbelly looks like? :whistle:

LMC
12th-December-2005, 05:42 PM
I'm in the very fortunate position of being able to cover my regular outgoings, go dancing as much as I like :D and treat myself occasionally - and my only debts are my mortgage and the loan for the double glazing.

But although I have some easy access savings, it's not a lot - I don't really have enough "slack" for anything going wrong nor do I have sufficient pension provision and I know I need to address both those things :blush: I'm also not very organised - I know I could get a better mortgage deal (and have been looking this week oddly enough!). I also need to review insurances etc. New Year's Resolutions coming up!

Next year's "reward" to myself for sorting all this stuff out will be a new car :waycool: (well, new to me - my current car is 11 years old, so I do actually need a better one!)

I've been in debt/desperate straits and it's not nice. But it was a valuable lesson to me - my credit card is dead convenient, but gets paid off every month.

LordOfTheFiles
12th-December-2005, 05:43 PM
And could you tell me what your overbelly looks like? :whistle:

Gold filegre (this could be the right word) and Tortoise Shell

ChrisA
12th-December-2005, 05:44 PM
Some people seem to get-by by juggling credit cards - I don't know how they do it.

It just takes a bit of practice... :whistle:

LordOfTheFiles
12th-December-2005, 06:07 PM
It just takes a bit of practice... :whistle:

It's all in the wrist action. The toss is the all important part

TiggsTours
12th-December-2005, 06:20 PM
Money matters are difficult to discuss, and I don't want anyone to let this thread to get personal.

What I'm interested in is a general discussion on how it's possible to balance doing the things you want to do with earning the money to be able to afford to do them :confused: ?

As someone who is in no way loaded with money (and who has just had to hand over a heap of cash to the plumbers just before Christmas :sad: ) I have to say that I struggle to make ends meet, but that I manage by strict budgeting and lots of forward planning.

I get irritated by people who say they can't afford to do esential things but somehow manage to afford (what I would consider to be) luxuries.

Of course I don't suppose I have any right to be irritated by this, people are entitled to do whatever they want with their money...

...any thoughts?

Different people have different ideas of what is essential.

I don't own my own house, but I have a roof over my head, I always pay my rent on time, I can feed myself, I can pay the travel to get to work, I have a car that I always pay for everything that is required, I always pay my bills on time and I have a pension & a small amount of savings for the unseen and the future.

I personally, being single without children, think that going out dancing, and looking forward to having a holiday and weekends away IS essential for me! I think it is more essential than having a house of my own. Going out with my friends, going away on holiday and going dancing keeps me sane. If I had to sacrifice this to buy a house, where I could go home to on my own at night, and not afford to go out as I have a mortgage to pay, so I'd have to sit indoors every night on my own isn't my idea of living, I'd rather go out dancing, that's what's essential for me!

Some people may think it frivolous at the age of 32, instead of going on holiday twice a year, I should be buying my own place. I don't. Eventually I will buy my own place, when I have someone to share it with, and going out every night, and going on holiday twice a year is less important.

I don't think anyone has the right to tell anyone to live their life, so long as its not hurting anyone else.

Lynn
12th-December-2005, 06:40 PM
Its all relative of course. I have seen situations in other countries where people struggle and save for up to a year to afford the deposit on a house - the deposit being about £80.

I've been on a tight budget for years and have to think about the cost of things all the time. Family often help out with luxuries like holidays and clothes, and I'm very good at finding bargains in Primark and spotting budget buys at Tescos. Most of the time I don't mind, though sometimes I would just love to be able to say go into Morgan and buy a nice outfit. But I'm aware that would be my clothes budget for about 6 months and bargain hunting can be fun too!

And yes, I do find it a bit irritating when I hear friends moan about money who are on salaries of literally 4 or 5 times mine. Or if I am out for a meal with friends and I skip starter and dessert and go for the cheapest thing on the menu - then they want to split the bill 4 ways. I shouldn't get annoyed, but I do a bit (esp as I would have then had the starter I really wanted, or had a different main.)

However, it has been my choice to work in the job I am in and have time available for other things, and until I started dancing, I didn't need money for much else!

TiggsTours
12th-December-2005, 06:43 PM
Its all relative of course. I have seen situations in other countries where people struggle and save for up to a year to afford the deposit on a house - the deposit being about £80.

I've been on a tight budget for years and have to think about the cost of things all the time. Family often help out with luxuries like holidays and clothes, and I'm very good at finding bargains in Primark and spotting budget buys at Tescos. Most of the time I don't mind, though sometimes I would just love to be able to say go into Morgan and buy a nice outfit. But I'm aware that would be my clothes budget for about 6 months and bargain hunting can be fun too!

And yes, I do find it a bit irritating when I hear friends moan about money who are on salaries of literally 4 or 5 times mine. Or if I am out for a meal with friends and I skip starter and dessert and go for the cheapest thing on the menu - then they want to split the bill 4 ways. I shouldn't get annoyed, but I do a bit (esp as I would have then had the starter I really wanted, or had a different main.)
I agree with the last bit, and I'm always the one at the table to say "no, I don't think we should split it, I had all this, and so-and-so only had that" but if I'm the one on the budget, I don't speak up, why is that?

I think its always best to establish before you order what you are going to do with the bill at the end.

I agreed with it all actually, aren't Matalan & Primark great?

LordOfTheFiles
12th-December-2005, 06:51 PM
It's a tricky one and that's for sure. And the problem is that more money simply enables a person to enjoy hings they couldn't do before. Then those things that were once luxuries become part of their lives and then the thought of giving them up, even though the salary coming in may have been reduced, is unthinkable.

In my previous life I was a trader (but alas not a very good one) and did the commute up to London and pretended to be a city boy. I truly believed i was going to make it and borrowed a lot of money against my firm belief of future value. Of course I managed to not be a very good trader, got sacked and found myself working demolition jobs just to pay the interest on all my debts (which by the way was absolute top fun). Eventually I got a job again in the city and paid off the debts etc etc and managed to move into London paying a stupid amount of rent so that I don't have to commute. As soon as I was able to walk to work, I realised that I could never give that privelege up, no matter what the cost and it became a priority that I simply didn't have six months before.

Was there a point to this story? I forget.

Ah yes. So yes from the outside I pay a very large sum to stay in W1, but I am prepared to saacrifice other aspects of my life for that privilege. Many people see it as madness, and they are probably right - bless em.

Lynn
12th-December-2005, 06:57 PM
I agree with the last bit, and I'm always the one at the table to say "no, I don't think we should split it, I had all this, and so-and-so only had that" but if I'm the one on the budget, I don't speak up, why is that?

I think its always best to establish before you order what you are going to do with the bill at the end. Oh yes, I would absolutely speak up if I knew someone else at the table was on a tight budget, but feel I'm being really mean saying anything on my own behalf. Agreeing it ahead of the meal is OK, but again I wouldn't want the one to suggest it, unless in a jokey way. It's a fairly common thing I suppose, wasn't there a Friends episode about it once?

I agreed with it all actually, aren't Matalan & Primark great? Yep. Sitting here in my latest Primark purchases - £1 top and £2 skirt!

Father Christmas
12th-December-2005, 07:29 PM
But I wouldn't mind a really well paid job, though..... (You listening, Santa??)Yes I am. And I will give you that job. All you need to do is apply for a well paid job that you have some of the qualities/qualifications required, apply, go to the interview, really impress them, go to the second interview, impress them even more - and then sit back and let me work my magic.

I'm a bit busy so I might not hear when you apply for the first job, maybe not even the second one or even the 52nd one. But I PROMISE that eventually you will be offered a well paid job that you really, really love. And while you're looking I suggest you work harder in your current job, impress the boss and ask for a pay rise.

Or would you prefer to meet a wealthy woman? :wink:

Cruella
12th-December-2005, 08:02 PM
Or would you prefer to meet a wealthy woman? :wink:
I think she would probably prefer a wealthy man.:whistle:

Little Monkey
12th-December-2005, 08:23 PM
Yes I am. And I will give you that job. All you need to do is apply for a well paid job that you have some of the qualities/qualifications required, apply, go to the interview, really impress them, go to the second interview, impress them even more - and then sit back and let me work my magic.

Ah, yes, I was afraid you were going to say that...... And I did do all that this year! And got a job that pays £24 per hour, despite not having the qualifications needed for the job!!:clap: But it's only 1 1/2 hours a week.....:( And apart from that I've got another job that pays peanuts..... And I'm even allergic to nuts! :tears:


I'm a bit busy so I might not hear when you apply for the first job, maybe not even the second one or even the 52nd one. But I PROMISE that eventually you will be offered a well paid job that you really, really love. And while you're looking I suggest you work harder in your current job, impress the boss and ask for a pay rise.

Ah. Like that, is it....? Sounds too much like hard work to me!

And I do have a job I really love. But my boss is a real bitch. And the salary is practically non-excistent. And there's no heating in the building. And there's hardly enough electricity, so the fuse goes several times per week if I do things like boil the kettle and listen to the radio at the same time. And it's dirty, long hours, back-breaking and very bad for my health. And sometimes pigeons fly in through my window and poo everywhere. And the building is in a really dodgy area of town, where two of my colleagues have been mugged when leaving the building in the evening. And there's far too many stairs (4 flights) and no lift, so when I get deliveries (sometimes up to a ton of materials in one go!), I have to carry everything up all the stairs. And did I tell you my boss is a real bitch who makes me sometimes work until about 3am? But I really, really love my work!!!! Honest!


Or would you prefer to meet a wealthy woman? :wink:

Ah. Ok, so I have short hair and wear trousers.... But although I have nothing against women, I'd rather date a man if that's ok with you? Oh, and as I've just found myself a gorgeous man, and he's even got enough money to be juuuust above the poverty line, so having two, or even a man and a woman, would just be greedy. Apart from the fact that I'm not a lesbian.

Little Monkey
12th-December-2005, 08:25 PM
Gold filegre (this could be the right word) and Tortoise Shell

Interesting! :what:

bigdjiver
12th-December-2005, 09:10 PM
Quick! Gimme a bucket to vo....... Bluaaaaargh! Ooops!:blush::devil: Little Monkey, you have quite the wrong attitude to life. A rainbow means "Its raining on them". Dew on a cobweb means "That hungry spider has had its cover blown." And a child laughing means it does not know what's coming."

Father Christmas
12th-December-2005, 09:34 PM
I think she would probably prefer a wealthy man.:whistle:Oops. We have so many Little Monkeys on our list - all the others are single men ...

Little Monkey
12th-December-2005, 09:45 PM
I think she would probably prefer a wealthy man.:whistle:

You beat me to it! Thanks! :cheers:

And yes, I do prefer a man! :D

Little Monkey
12th-December-2005, 09:47 PM
Oops. We have so many Little Monkeys on our list - all the others are single men ...

Huh. But I am the Little Monkey. And I'm all woman!

jivecat
12th-December-2005, 10:10 PM
And yes, I do find it a bit irritating when I hear friends moan about money who are on salaries of literally 4 or 5 times mine. Or if I am out for a meal with friends and I skip starter and dessert and go for the cheapest thing on the menu - then they want to split the bill 4 ways. I shouldn't get annoyed, but I do a bit (esp as I would have then had the starter I really wanted, or had a different main.)
Yeah, this drives me absolutely nuts, especially if the ones that want an equal split get really self-righteous about it, implying that the only civilised form of behaviour is to get someone else to subsidise their bottles of wine, smoked salmon, dessert and after-dinner liqueur. If there's any disparity in income between the group of friends the only tactful way to deal with it is to let people pay for what they chose.


However, it has been my choice to work in the job I am in and have time available for other things, and until I started dancing, I didn't need money for much else!

I chose some years ago to be time-rich and cash-poor and have never regretted it. I figured that if I stayed full-time in a stressful job that I disliked it would reduce my chances of getting to pensionable age with my health and sanity sufficiently intact to enjoy my pension fund. I was lucky to be in an occupation that was stable and well-enough paid for me to reduce my hours so that I could pursue other activities that mean a lot to me. (When I don't fritter the time away on the Internet.:rolleyes: ) If I worked fulltime I would have a vast amount of disposable income each month but be too stressed and exhausted to be able to spend it.

Sometimes I feel a bit envious of friends who have new cars or upgrade their houses whenever they want but on balance feel that I would rather have the free time and don't mind juggling pennies in order to get that. I try to suppress any feelings of envy because I think that I have made my choice and should abide by it. I occasionally have misgivings about living in poverty when I'm 85, but hey, look on the bright side, I may drop dead when I'm 64 and a half - or be made to work to 75 anyway, which I fully accept that I'll need to do.

Yeah, Primark & Matalan are brill - when I'm not hanging out in Lidl or Aldi!

David Bailey
13th-December-2005, 10:12 AM
Yeah, this drives me absolutely nuts, especially if the ones that want an equal split get really self-righteous about it, implying that the only civilised form of behaviour is to get someone else to subsidise their bottles of wine, smoked salmon, dessert and after-dinner liqueur. If there's any disparity in income between the group of friends the only tactful way to deal with it is to let people pay for what they chose.
:yeah: - drives me nuts too. But I don't say anything, because I can afford it, and so I'll look like a total tightwad. Probably a good thing no-one ever invites me to dinner anymore :tears:

One compromise is to split the meal equally, but let people pay for their own drinks, as this is typically where the biggest disparity lies - but this usually only works when you agree it in advance.

I went to a friend's birthday dinner party a couple of years ago, and her brother with his partner decided they wanted to drink champagne (!) - they ordered two bottles and drunk most of it between them. I and my partner had soft drinks, but we were expected to split the meal equally. We decided to put in a compromise contribution, but there was no way I was buying this stranger champers...

Sparkles
13th-December-2005, 11:50 AM
As many of you have said, it's all relative.
If someone is rich in some ways it is likely that they are poorer in others.
Many of us sacrifice monetary wealth for extra free time or job satisfaction, while others are wealthy and have less time with which to make the most of it and may or may not enjoy their chosen job.
I'm wondering where that balance lies...

My Mum is a secondary school teacher and when she had a tutor group aged 15-16 she asked them what they wanted to do after their GCSE's. One girl piped up and said "Get pregnant". My Mum was slightly surprised by this, but decided to hear her reasoning and said "Why?", after all maybe she was in a steady relationship and desperately wanted children... The girl answered that if she was pregnant she would go straight to the top of the council's priority list for housing, would have benefits to live off, her TV licence paid for, her accomodation and amenities provided for, she could move out of her parents house and have a place of her own and she wouldn't have to bother getting any further quailifications or go to work.

Another scenario is a friend of mine who went to Oxford Uni a year early (having already achieved six A-levels at grade A), got a first in Mathematics and then started a PhD - two years in and he was disproving the theories of Cambridge Professors sucessfully. He decided to give it all up last summer and go and work for a big bank in the city, because it paid more than any academic job he'd be likely to get in the next 20 yrs, and now he works from 7am till 10pm, earns a lot of money and never finished his PhD.

Personally I'd like to be somewhere in the middle...

TheTramp
13th-December-2005, 11:58 AM
My Mum is a secondary school teacher and when she had a tutor group aged 15-16 she asked them what they wanted to do after their GCSE's. One girl piped up and said "Get pregnant". My Mum was slightly surprised by this, but decided to hear her reasoning and said "Why?", after all maybe she was in a steady relationship and desperately wanted children... The girl answered that if she was pregnant she would go straight to the top of the council's priority list for housing, would have benefits to live off, her TV licence paid for, her accomodation and amenities provided for, she could move out of her parents house and have a place of her own and she wouldn't have to bother getting any further quailifications or go to work.
Unfortunately, this is a fairly common example. My parents used to own a sub post office, and there were many young girls who went in there to claim their benefits who had done this sort of thing....

Compulsory sterilization anyone?? :what:

KatieR
13th-December-2005, 12:14 PM
I often wish that someone had given me a swift boot up the backside when I was about 19. I was too interested in the RND way of life and so frittered away my education and now am struggling to find a job that will earn me enough money to do the things I want without struggling.

Now I am faced with desperately wanting to study and better myself and give myself better career prospects but cant afford to on the wage that i earn. Its a catch 22 situation. Still, I am happy to struggle for a while now if it means a) I can return to the UK and b) return to the UK with a job that pays a decent amount of money.

CJ
13th-December-2005, 01:24 PM
I chose some years ago to be time-rich and cash-poor and have never regretted it.

Great phrase, Heather.

It does come down to choice. Although I feel I was chosen to be a musician and not the other way about, I am very happy with that and make my decisions according to that.

My brother is the polar opposite of me. Whilst he is immeasurbly more wealthy than me, my hope is that either he changes his ways or he gets himself a family to pass on his fortune when he dies prematurely of stress/heart attack/etc. Am being light hearted, but it concerns me. However, we each make a choice and this is his.:o

Cruella
13th-December-2005, 01:46 PM
Compulsory sterilization anyone?? :what:
It's education that's needed not sterilization! If these girls had a taste of mother hood before actually getting pregnant i don't think they would be so keen! Perhaps the schools should all invest in a 'virtual baby'. One of the dolls that acts and responds like a real baby and monitors the treatment given. Each girl could look after it for a week and the monitoring would tell them whether or not they would have been abusing/neglecting the baby had it been real!
Unfortunately a bit more respect for others and morals need to be taught from an early age too. This needs to come from the parents as well as the education system. I am appalled at the thinking of some of the children that come into school at age 4. We try our damndest to install the difference between right and wrong, acceptable and unexceptable behaviour but unfortunately there will always be some that are going home and relearning the unacceptable from their family and friends.
I better get back to work now before they tear up the classroom

Lynn
13th-December-2005, 01:54 PM
:yeah: - drives me nuts too. But I don't say anything, because I can afford it, and so I'll look like a total tightwad. Yes, but I think I would look like a total tightwad anyway - so I don't say anything either - I just wish I'd had that starter/different main/dessert etc. Agreeing in advance makes sense, if you know its going to be split then you can enjoy the meal better (instead of sitting sipping your tap water while everyone else tucks into their starters).

Andy McGregor
13th-December-2005, 01:58 PM
It's education that's needed not sterilization![/SIZE]I think what they needed was proper parenting. But this behavior is hereditary, you pass it on to your kids. Something needs to break the cycle. Sterilization is one answer. National Service would be another. Compulsory education is, IMHO, unlikely to work.

Andy

azande
13th-December-2005, 02:21 PM
I think what they needed was proper parenting. But this behavior is hereditary, you pass it on to your kids. Something needs to break the cycle. Sterilization is one answer. National Service would be another. Compulsory education is, IMHO, unlikely to work.

Andy
Andy, I think you should stop making assertions I agree with! :wink:

David Bailey
13th-December-2005, 03:00 PM
I think what they needed was proper parenting. But this behavior is hereditary, you pass it on to your kids. Something needs to break the cycle.
You're channelling the Daily Mail again, Andy.

One third-hand anecdotal tale about one silly teenage girl doesn't exactly make a nationwide epidemic or societal cycle, it just says that teenage girls may be silly. If ten of them had said "I want to be a footballer's wife", should we assassinate David Beckham?

(Well, yes, OK, poor example there, but you know what I mean :) )


Sterilization is one answer.
Eugenics tends to be frowned-upon in most societies for some reason.


National Service would be another.
Training our idle youths how to hurt and kill people? :whistle:


Compulsory education is, IMHO, unlikely to work.
Why? It tends to work in teaching children generally...

LordOfTheFiles
13th-December-2005, 03:03 PM
You're channelling the Daily Mail again, Andy.

I am really not too sure if asking parents to take responsibility for their children is the stuff of Daily Mail Legend. Work Camps for children however, may be.

TheTramp
13th-December-2005, 03:09 PM
One third-hand anecdotal tale about one silly teenage girl doesn't exactly make a nationwide epidemic or societal cycle, it just says that teenage girls may be silly. If ten of them had said "I want to be a footballer's wife", should we assassinate David Beckham?

Eugenics tends to be frowned-upon in most societies for some reason.

Ummm. On the small housing estate near why my parents had their Post Office, there were at least 5 (that I can think of off the top of my head, and I was only ever there occasionally) girls under the age of 20 who had children, just to get the free house, and other benefits. They used to freely comment that was what they had done. I think that it's a fairly common thing nationwide. And I don't read the Daily Mail.

The tongue in cheek comment about sterilization came from me first. I'm not sure what the alternative is. Though, I'd be interested (in so far as I'm not really that interested actually!) to see if Cruella's suggestion would work.

And yes. Feel free to assassinate David Beckham :whistle:

azande
13th-December-2005, 03:18 PM
Training our idle youths how to hurt and kill people?
... or respect for authority and discipline?


And yes. Feel free to assassinate David Beckham

:yeah:

David Bailey
13th-December-2005, 03:25 PM
I am really not too sure if asking parents to take responsibility for their children is the stuff of Daily Mail Legend. Work Camps for children however, may be.
"Nationwide Epidemic Of Feckless Women Getting Pregnant To Live Off The Sweat Of Our Hardworking Brows And The Incredibly Generous Welfare State" - sounds Mail-esque to me...

And before we swap anecdotes, I'm going to go crazy and introduce some facts into the debate - a quote from this article (http://www.esrcsocietytoday.ac.uk/ESRCInfoCentre/facts/index40.aspx?ComponentId=12614&SourcePageId=6970) seems pertinent:

Teenage single mothers
Despite media headlines suggesting otherwise, overall, teenage pregnancies have fallen nationally by 9.4 per cent since 1999. In 1970, young women aged 15 to 19 in England and Wales were almost twice as likely to become mothers as they are today. Furthermore, the belief held in some circles that teenagers only get pregnant to get a council house is not backed by facts. Seven out of ten 15 and 16 year old mothers, and around half of 17 and 18-year-old mothers, stay in the family home.

Now, what was that about David Beckham....?

LordOfTheFiles
13th-December-2005, 03:31 PM
"Nationwide Epidemic Of Feckless Women Getting Pregnant To Live Off The Sweat Of Our Hardworking Brows And The Incredibly Generous Welfare State" - sounds Mail-esque to me...

My apologies, but I thought that Andy was making a point about people taking responsibility for themselves and their parenting in general. I didn't think it was associated with the single parent, living off the state, damn their hides part. Of course I may be mistaken - it happened once before

TheTramp
13th-December-2005, 04:36 PM
Teenage single mothers
Despite media headlines suggesting otherwise, overall, teenage pregnancies have fallen nationally by 9.4 per cent since 1999. In 1970, young women aged 15 to 19 in England and Wales were almost twice as likely to become mothers as they are today. Furthermore, the belief held in some circles that teenagers only get pregnant to get a council house is not backed by facts. Seven out of ten 15 and 16 year old mothers, and around half of 17 and 18-year-old mothers, stay in the family home.

Uh huh. Please note that I didn't say that the figures weren't falling. And my information comes from about 1999. The fact that the figures are falling, is great.

However, that doesn't mean that there aren't significant numbers of young ladies who do still do it....

And if there are (picks number out of air) 6,000 who do it nationally each year while still a teenager, that's still 1000 15-16 year olds, and over 1,500 17-18 year olds who are having babies, and not living in the parental home.

Say it costs an average £40,000 for the house, and £10,000 in benefits to support them, that's £100 million outlaid on the cost of the housing, and £25million in benefit payments each year.

Of course, these are figures picked out of the air. It'll probably be more.... :whistle:

David Bailey
13th-December-2005, 04:49 PM
Of course, these are figures picked out of the air. It'll probably be more.... :whistle:
God, yes, much more. You haven't even factored in loss of earnings, costs for the higher crime figures, etc. etc.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think being a lone parent is an ideal situation, it sucks. But that's the society we've got, and allowing more individual freedom (e.g. the choice to more easily get out of a bad marriage) has downsides. That'll be the "balance" thing (see, cunning attempt to get back to the topic in hand, did you notice?)

OK, the fact that some really silly girls think single parenthood is a career plan is, well, really silly. But hell. significantly greater numbers of young ladies like David Beckham, which I think we can all agree is a far more heinous crime.

The good news is, the problem seems to be under control, which is more than we can say for Beckham-mania.

Cruella
13th-December-2005, 05:21 PM
But hell. significantly greater numbers of young ladies like David Beckham, which I think we can all agree is a far more heinous crime.


Sounds like jealousy to me!! You just wish all those young ladies were throwing themselves in your direction!!:devil:

David Bailey
13th-December-2005, 05:29 PM
Sounds like jealousy to me!! You just wish all those young ladies were throwing themselves in your direction!!:devil:
So true, I never get any interesting text messages either. :tears:

jivecat
13th-December-2005, 07:30 PM
Great phrase, Heather.




Ta. I must admit to borrowing it from elsewhere!

Lynn
13th-December-2005, 09:20 PM
I chose some years ago to be time-rich and cash-poor and have never regretted it.... I was lucky to be in an occupation that was stable and well-enough paid for me to reduce my hours so that I could pursue other activities that mean a lot to me. I suppose that's the key to the balance. No good being time rich to do all the things you want but so cash poor you can't afford to do anything that involves spending money. (And pretty much everything does involve some cost.) Working long hours for not much money in a job you hate, just to pay the basic bills must be the worst though. No time or extra cash.

Sparkles
14th-December-2005, 10:28 AM
So what do you think the best jobs are for making the most money whilst still having a lot of spare time in which to play with it?
(anyone would think I was looking for a career change :whistle: )

KatieR
14th-December-2005, 10:45 AM
So what do you think the best jobs are for making the most money whilst still having a lot of spare time in which to play with it?
(anyone would think I was looking for a career change :whistle: )

Lady of the night? :whistle: :D

Sparkles
14th-December-2005, 10:46 AM
Lady of the night? :whistle: :D
I don't think 10p and a packet of crisps is much to live off :sad:

KatieR
14th-December-2005, 10:53 AM
I don't think 10p and a packet of crisps is much to live off :sad:

You could be one of them high class ladies that gets to escort all the rich billionnaire playboys to extravagant parties.. :wink:

Lory
14th-December-2005, 11:46 AM
So what do you think the best jobs are for making the most money whilst still having a lot of spare time in which to play with it?
(anyone would think I was looking for a career change :whistle: )
A medical rep

A friend of mine, has been in this job for about 18months and she's loving every moment, she gets a lovely BMW company car, a clothes allowance, medical cover, she gets to travel all over the world to conferences, (all expenses paid p*ss ups apparently).

Basically, the main part of her job involves wining and dinning young doctors in very flash, in fact the flasher the better restaurants... nice one! :waycool:

I think you need a qualification in chemistry, so it might just be the job for you! :wink:

Feelingpink
14th-December-2005, 11:48 AM
A medical rep

A friend of mine, has been in this job for about 18months and she's loving every moment, she gets a lovely BMW company car, a clothes allowance, medical cover, she gets to travel all over the world to conferences, (all expenses paid p*ss ups apparently).

Basically, the main part of her job involves wining and dinning young doctors in very flash, in fact the flasher the better restaurants... nice one! :waycool:

I think you need a qualification in chemistry, so it might just be the job for you! :wink:Ooh - what a great idea! I used to flat with a medical rep years ago and she eventually left the country because she was head-hunted to work in New Zealand, where she also had the most yummy model boyfriend.

David Bailey
14th-December-2005, 12:10 PM
A medical rep

A friend of mine, has been in this job for about 18months and she's loving every moment, she gets a lovely BMW company car, a clothes allowance, medical cover, she gets to travel all over the world to conferences, (all expenses paid p*ss ups apparently).

Basically, the main part of her job involves wining and dinning young doctors in very flash, in fact the flasher the better restaurants... nice one! :waycool:
Does she work in the aspartame industry? :whistle:

Sheepman
14th-December-2005, 02:51 PM
As many of you have said, it's all relative.
If someone is rich in some ways it is likely that they are poorer in others.
Many of us sacrifice monetary wealth for extra free time or job satisfaction, while others are wealthy and have less time with which to make the most of it and may or may not enjoy their chosen job.
I'm wondering where that balance lies...

- snip - he works from 7am till 10pm, earns a lot of money and never finished his PhD.
I think a lot of it is probably down to what you see as your role in life, choices made during childhood, and what potential you see for yourself.

Having been brought up in a single parent family, living on state benefit, I can't say I ever felt impoverished (my Mum probably did). It was just a case of "that's the way things are" but it did mean, e.g. that pocket money was for saving, not spending, until it was needed for something that would really make a difference. Thrift & budgeting were essential, habits that are hard to break. I expect it was in those years that I decided the security of a home and plenty of savings was essential.
Having achieved that, through a mixture of luck, judgement, and even some hard work :eek: (not necessarily my own!) The benefits of not working silly hours are far more attractive. Maybe I would go back to hard work, and little play, if circumstances dictated that, but I'd prefer not to, and I'm sure my health would suffer. Although most of the jobs I've done have been interesting and challenging, they have only ever been about earning a wage, rather a vocation.

Although I regularly use credit cards, provided there are funds to pay the bill off each month, I still struggle to understand the "I want it now" mentality and I procrastinate for too long when it comes to buying something that I don't really need.

Greg