Free will

[LMC]

*looking forward to hearing what DavidB, TWK & others have to say about that one*

But I actually mean free will as in true freedom of thought and action.

Our personalities and behaviour are dictated by something:

the stars (http://72.232.2.194/~fpauly/forum/showthread.php?t=6136) and/or
some Supreme Being or beings (http://72.232.2.194/~fpauly/forum/showthread.php?t=3072) and/or
genes and/or upbringing/environment (nature/nurture?)
responsibilities and practical considerations (having to work to earn enough money to live for a start)
*other determining/limiting factor*


What do you believe determines your personality and behaviour? - and can you live up to that?

[Will]

*looking forward to hearing what DavidB, TWK & others have to say about that one*

But I actually mean free will as in true freedom of thought and action.

Our personalities and behaviour are dictated by something:

the stars (http://72.232.2.194/~fpauly/forum/showthread.php?t=6136) and/or
some Supreme Being or beings (http://72.232.2.194/~fpauly/forum/showthread.php?t=3072) and/or
genes and/or upbringing/environment (nature/nurture?)
responsibilities and practical considerations (having to work to earn enough money to live for a start)
*other determining/limiting factor*


What do you believe determines your personality and behaviour? - and can you live up to that?
I'll save you the bother of waiting for DavidB to post. He told me that he hasn't had any free will for the last 14 years!

[LordOfTheFiles]

I really think we need to discuss something more meaty that we can get our teeth into. This free will thing seems to be a bit weak. A better discussion would be on which was the best Thunder Cat

[Will]

I really think we need to discuss something more meaty that we can get our teeth into. This free will thing seems to be a bit weak. A better discussion would be on which was the best Thunder Cat
Cheetara.

[Groovy Dancer]

Cheetara.


:drool: hmmm so true:rolleyes:

[LordOfTheFiles]

Cheetara.

I am not so sure about best Thunder cat but definitely the best leotard wearer.

[KatieR]

:drool: hmmm so true:rolleyes:

its Lion-O for me!

[LordOfTheFiles]

its Lion-O for me!

Eye of Thundera, give me sight BEYOND sight. Marvellous. And a very good hairdresser

[TiggsTours]

I know its sad, but I really liked Snarf.

[ducasi]

Poor LMC... :hug:

I bet you never thought this thread would go this way!

Let me try to get it back on track... :flower:

I am really unsure about free will...

I think that nature & nurture are huge factors in what makes us "us", but sometimes I find myself being led to do things that are not in my nature. And something these have their own consequences. So was it fate that was directing me?

Thing is, even if our whole lives were pre-ordained, how would we know?

[doc martin]

Is this like they used to offer in the petrol stations - "Free Will with every four gallons"?

And does Will mind being given away free?

[LMC]

Poor LMC... :hug:

I bet you never thought this thread would go this way!
It's everyone exercising free will innit? :na:

I'm amazed we got to post 11 before someone made that joke :rolleyes:

ducasi, how do you know you're "being led" to do something out of character - it might be that 'impulse' is part of your nature...

[DavidB]

Will is guilty. He was convicted by both Judge and Jury (aka Kate), and should accept his punishment.

[under par]

Why ?????:confused:

[LordOfTheFiles]

I know its sad, but I really liked Snarf.

Well yes it is sad. And frankly you could have just kept it to yourself and nobody would have been any the wiser. Ah the folly of youth. Still he always got the last laugh in every episode so the rest of the team must have liked him

[Shaz]

Why ?????:confused:
:rofl: :rofl:

[stewart38]

Poor LMC... :hug:

I am really unsure about free will...

I think that nature & nurture are huge factors in what makes us "us", but sometimes I find myself being led to do things that are not in my nature. And something these have their own consequences. So was it fate that was directing me?

Thing is, even if our whole lives were pre-ordained, how would we know?

re myself

Can 'well thats not in my nature' must be a phase Im going through be an excuse for ones actions. When does it become part of your nature.

Can i say well for 39yrs I behaved like that and for only 1yr ive behaved like this and the 'real me' is surpressed. :sick:

This year has certainly been the most interesting year ive ever had !

[ducasi]

ducasi, how do you know you're "being led" to do something out of character - it might be that 'impulse' is part of your nature... I can be impulsive, but it's not always like that – sometimes it's stepping back and letting things happen.

Take for example last Sunday there... I was heading off to the train station to get a train to Stirling for the freestyle there, but I thought I might need to hurry to catch the train. I wasn't wearing my watch, so I wasn't sure what the time was...

Instead I just kept my usual pace and decided to let fate decide whether I'd miss the train or not. And I did! So I went shopping and got a train an hour later.

And by coincidence I met a friend who I once brought along to Ceroc and who was also going to where I had to change trains, and so stayed and chatted with me while I waited...

Now I've no idea what the ultimate consequences of this are, but could it have been the hand of fate at work?

Some people will tell you there's no such thing as a coincidence...

[Missy D]

Free Will eh? thought he was married to Kate! Ok I bid a pound for him.

[Gadget]

I really think we need to discuss something more meaty that we can get our teeth into. This free will thing seems to be a bit weak. A better discussion would be on which was the best Thunder Cat
Mumrah... although I always liked Panthra's tinkering with stuff, and I agree about Cheetarah.

Funny, I remember Liono's sword and the "sight beyond sight" thing, but I don't remember any actual fighting or sword play.:confused:

[Icey]

Funny, I remember Liono's sword and the "sight beyond sight" thing, but I don't remember any actual fighting or sword play.:confused:


:yeah:

[Gadget]

What did Tigra do? And what weapon did he use? Cheetarah was the staff, Panthro had nunchaka ( that big car thing), Lionon had his sword, Kit had a whip and Kat had a net... Tigra?

It also had one of the coolest logos. :cool:

[ShinyWeeStar]

Ducasi, there's no such thing as coincidence :D

[El Salsero Gringo]

Only six out of 23 posts on topic so far (seven if you count the last one, but I didn't understand it) - I'd give this one up if I were you...

[ducasi]

Some people will tell you there's no such thing as a coincidence...
Ducasi, there's no such thing as coincidence :D There you go... :rolleyes:




:wink:

[David Bailey]

There you go... :rolleyes:
There's no such thing as coincidence. :innocent:

Seriously, there isn't - it's just a name for a connection we make in our minds between two things, where there is no connection - usually we make this connection because people are diabolically bad at understanding probabilities, as we see on the National Lottery every week.

Hence no coincidence. :)

[LordOfTheFiles]

What did Tigra do? And what weapon did he use? Cheetarah was the staff, Panthro had nunchaka ( that big car thing), Lionon had his sword, Kit had a whip and Kat had a net... Tigra?

I could be wrong on this one but I am the kinda guy that is prepared to go out on a limb. Didn't he have those short three pronged daggers??

[ducasi]

Here's a dictionary definition of what coincidence means...

1. The state or fact of occupying the same relative position or area in space.
2. A sequence of events that although accidental seems to have been planned or arranged.

When I found I was travelling on the train on Sunday with a friend that was certainly a coincidence in sense 1. I'd say it was also a coincidence in sense 2, in that if I'd known my friend was going to be doing this journey beforehand, I'd have arranged to meet to travel together.

I have no misunderstand of the probability of this coincidence. It doesn't need to have a high or a low probability for it to be a coincidence.

Now (most of) the people who tell me there there is no such thing as coincidence are not misunderstanding probability either, they simply believe that everything happens for a reason, whether it appears to be "coincidence" or not. But what they specifically mean is that it can't be a coincidence because the "seems to have been planned or arranged" bit is true because fate arranged it, and that's why it's not "a sequence of events that [is] accidental".

Hence no coincidence. :)

[LordOfTheFiles]

Mumrah... although I always liked Panthra's tinkering with stuff, and I agree about Cheetarah.

Funny, I remember Liono's sword and the "sight beyond sight" thing, but I don't remember any actual fighting or sword play.:confused:

When you have sight beyond sight you see the fighting coming and know how best to avoid it. Also they couldn't find stunt persons that looked the same so the sharacters would have had to do all their own fighting and that was never in the contract.

[LordOfTheFiles]

Here's a dictionary definition of what coincidence means...

I think what we really need is the definition of circular argument...

[ducasi]

I think what we really need is the definition of circular argument...
Circular argument: for definition, see Ceroc Scotland forum.

[LordOfTheFiles]

Circular argument: for definition, see Ceroc Scotland forum.

I knew I had sen it somewhere before

[KatieR]

Funny, I remember Liono's sword and the "sight beyond sight" thing, but I don't remember any actual fighting or sword play.:confused:

Eye of Thundara! Give me sight beyond sight!!

[stewart38]

Only six out of 23 posts on topic so far (seven if you count the last one, but I didn't understand it) - I'd give this one up if I were you...


Who decides wether we post a joke or real chat around the subject :sick:

Reminds me of a pupil telling a teacher his whole life was mapped out and what he did made no difference

teacher then starting picking up objects and 'showed' he had free will and he missed the whole point !

[LordOfTheFiles]

Reminds me of a pupil telling a teacher his whole life was mapped out and what he did made no difference

teacher then starting picking up objects and 'showed' he had free will and he missed the whole point !

And the point was??

[LordOfTheFiles]

Who decides wether we post a joke or real chat around the subject :sick:

It would be arrogant and presumptuous to say me. But since they are my only qualities of note, I will have to say that it is me

[mooncalf]

It would be arrogant and presumptuous to say me. But since they are my only qualities of note, I will have to say that it is me

I told you to do that.

I'm the power behind the throne.

[LordOfTheFiles]

I'm the power behind the throne.

True but you are a mere 30 watts of power, whereas my luminescence shines far brighter in this dark dark world. Plus (although I am a Lord), I have downgraded my throne to a mere comfy chair to show that I am at one with the common people.

[mooncalf]

True but you are a mere 30 watts of power, whereas my luminescence shines far brighter in this dark dark world. Plus (although I am a Lord), I have downgraded my throne to a mere comfy chair to show that I am at one with the common people.

Strangely my Lord, I have never doubted that you were in touch with common people.

[LordOfTheFiles]

Strangely my Lord, I have never doubted that you were in touch with common people.

It's because I kiss all those babies isn't it? I came up with that idea. Cardinal Wolsey said it would never work, but look who got arrested. Enough said

[mooncalf]

It's because I kiss all those babies isn't it? I came up with that idea. Cardinal Wolsey said it would never work, but look who got arrested. Enough said

Cardinal Wolsey has a lot to answer for. My lawn has never been the same since I caught him playing clamps there with a few of your common people. One I suspect was Ironpants himself.

[LordOfTheFiles]

Cardinal Wolsey has a lot to answer for. My lawn has never been the same since I caught him playing clamps there with a few of your common people. One I suspect was Ironpants himself.

I can confirm it was IronPants. Incredibly lithe for a man wearing such heavy undergarments, but then he does have the Physique of an Adonis. In fact he may actually have Adonis' physique - but we will have to let the Courts decide on that one.

Now about Free Will...

Which Thunder Cat would you most like to see presenting BBC Sport??

[mooncalf]

Now about Free Will...


I would like to exercise my free will.

I think its looking a bit limp and out of condition. What exercises can I do to develop my free will and make it the stuff of legend. Although I must point out that I'm really quite lazy, so nothing too strenuous if you please. A couple of toe touches, something of that order.

[stewart38]

And the point was??


It wasnt free will it was all destine to happen

Like im going to post 3 more times on this thread and you are going to post 4 more times etc

[mooncalf]

Poppycock. A chicken with cross dressing tendencies.

[LordOfTheFiles]

It wasnt free will it was all destine to happen

Like im going to post 3 more times on this thread and you are going to post 4 more times etc

But the kid can't claim that the teacher missed the whole point. If you believe in predestination or fate then you see everything in one way. If you don't then every action you take has an element of free will and so creates a new future base on that action. Which of course cannot be demonstrated (except in Back to the Future II) as we cannot see the the results of any action apart from the one that we took.

So actually the kid missed the whole point as well. But then kids are stupid so what can you expect?

[LordOfTheFiles]

Poppycock. A chicken with cross dressing tendencies.

CopyCat. A chicken with identity issues

[LMC]

Can 'well thats not in my nature' must be a phase Im going through be an excuse for ones actions. When does it become part of your nature.

Can i say well for 39yrs I behaved like that and for only 1yr ive behaved like this and the 'real me' is surpressed. :sick:
I guess this raises the question of whether certain ways of thinking or behaviour are "natural" or "habit" - I don't suppose it really matters :shrug: - but maybe it's easier to overcome habit than nature? (that's a question by the way, I really dunno the answer to that one...)

Apparently it takes 28 days to "set up" most habits - circadian rhythms or something. No, I don't have any scientific basis for that and can't be bothered to Google for it right this minute. I guess how long it takes would depend on how much you want to "change" - I managed to break my smoking habit within about a week - no serious cravings after that. But I still have a tendency to overanalyse even after a year of recognising that I need to stop doing that :blush:


There's no such thing as coincidence. :innocent:

Seriously, there isn't - it's just a name for a connection we make in our minds between two things, where there is no connection - usually we make this connection because people are diabolically bad at understanding probabilities, as we see on the National Lottery every week.

Hence no coincidence. :)
Plus you only remember coincidences that actually happen - probably because they are relatively rare compared with the number of opportunities for coincidence that don't happen.

IMO.

I love that this thread has got completely surreal

[mooncalf]

Pig headed - a chicken that refuses to admit that it is a chicken.

[LordOfTheFiles]

Pig headed - a chicken that refuses to admit that it is a chicken.

Bull Whipped - A bull that hasd been whipped. By a chicken

[mooncalf]

Bull Whipped - A bull that hasd been whipped. By a chicken

This thread is giving me altitude sickness.

[LordOfTheFiles]

This thread is giving me altitude sickness.

It's giving you attitude sickness. And that is far worse.

Trust me I know, I had a bout of it in 1867, or it might have been 1866. It was a Tuesday because the washerwoman had just left. Or was it the Scullery Maid? If so that would have made it a Thursday. Anyway suffice to say it occured on a day and in a year. And it was dreadful.

And that is the point I was making

[mooncalf]

It's giving you attitude sickness. And that is far worse.

Trust me I know, I had a bout of it in 1867, or it might have been 1866. It was a Tuesday because the washerwoman had just left. Or was it the Scullery Maid? If so that would have made it a Thursday. Anyway suffice to say it occured on a day and in a year. And it was dreadful.

And that is the point I was making

Or aptitude sickness. I've lost all that I had due to this thread draining away my sensibilities.

[LordOfTheFiles]

Or aptitude sickness. I've lost all that I had due to this thread draining away my sensibilities.

If you had any aptitude then the world would mourn it's passing. But you don't.

End of!

[mooncalf]

If you had any aptitude then the world would mourn it's passing. But you don't.

End of!

I have been hoisted. Sir you are so low you could walk under a snake's belly with a top hat on. A snake with an amplitude of gargantuan proportions. Do you understand how low that would be - you under the trough of his belly.

[LordOfTheFiles]

I have been hoisted. Sir you are so low you could walk under a snake's belly with a top hat on. A snake with an amplitude of gargantuan proportions. Do you understand how low that would be - you under the trough of his belly.

Not only have you been hoisted, but the snake has also. Using (may I add) a system of levers and pulleys. Therefore I am indeed able to walk (on tiptoes) under the belly of this leviathan.

Have at You

[mooncalf]

Not only have you been hoisted, but the snake has also. Using (may I add) a system of levers and pulleys. Therefore I am indeed able to walk (on tiptoes) under the belly of this leviathan.

Have at You

Ah yes but only because it is a levitating leviathon cruising at 35000 feet.

[LordOfTheFiles]

Ah yes but only because it is a levitating leviathon cruising at 35000 feet.

mmmmmmmm leviathan

[doc martin]

Circular argument: for definition, see Ceroc Scotland forum.
That reminds me of the definition of recursion (http://www.outpost9.com/reference/jargon/jargon_33.html#TAG1486)


There's no such thing as coincidence.

Seriously, there isn't - it's just a name for a connection we make in our minds between two things,
We have named it and defined it. It therefore exists as a social meme.You could argue that any two events occurring in conjunction, no matter what their probability, is a coincidence, and by the dictionary definition you would be right.

Most people understand a coincidence as two events occurring in conjunction, at least one of which was very unlikely to happen at that time and/or place. There is probably a gray area where one person would see the likelihood of an event occurring as very low and therefore call the occurrence of that event alongside another a coincidence, but another person would consider that the two events occurring in conjunction was not so unlikely, so wouldn't call it a coincidence.

This is where people's estimation of probability comes in, and you are quite right, we are mostly very poor at it. In fact an ability in mathematical estimation of probability is very unnatural and only a recent development in human history.

You could also argue that one of the main reasons we see coincidences everywhere is that one of the main functions of the brain (not just the human brain) is as a coincidence detector. The ability to juxtapose two events with no seeming connection could be lifesaver in both prey and predator situations. If the birds have gone quiet and some leaves move, get up a tree. If at a certain time of year you hear a thump, go and investigate, your lunch has probably just arrived.

Animals attempt to make better forecasts about what will occur in their environment based on detection of coincidence. The classic example is Pavlov's dogs. They learnt to detect the coincidence of a bell ringing and food arriving.

Humans sometimes become consciously aware of these coincidences and attempt to ascribe meaning to them. From these attempts spring concepts such as fate and religion and practises such as astrology. And by extrapolating these concepts people start to worry about other concepts, such as free will (there... finally got on-topic :) ).

So, if we didn't have a concept of coincidence, this discussion would have even less meaning than it currently seems to.

[LordOfTheFiles]

So, if we didn't have a concept of coincidence, this discussion would have even less meaning than it currently seems to.

Hey i'm offended. What do you mean no meaning??? Levitating snakes for god's sake. What could have more meaning than that?!

[doc martin]

Hey i'm offended. What do you mean no meaning??? Levitating snakes for god's sake. What could have more meaning than that?!
I apologise for upending you, but levitating snakes get right up my nose.

[mooncalf]

I apologise for upending you, but levitating snakes get right up my nose.

Hey me too - what are the chances of that happening?

[LMC]

I just checked my horoscope in yesterday's Metro which said (I kid you not) that I was going to meet the love of my life (paraphrased). But I'm still single.

'Animals' in doc martin's excellent post also include humans - we go looking for coincidences too.

If I believed in astrology (I don't, Cancerians never do) and had read that yesterday morning, maybe I would have gone "looking" for the love of my life. In the unlikely event that I found them, that would reinforce my belief in astrology. All that could be said to reduce free will - because decisions during that day would not have been made on any scientific basis (astrology not being a science). However, I exercised free will in the first place by deciding to follow my stars...

Maybe I should conclude that any decision limits your freedom. My fence-sitting tendencies are thus vindicated.

[mooncalf]

Maybe I should conclude that any decision limits your freedom.

So are you happy now? Can we get back to talking about flying snakes?

[LMC]

I started this thread, I'll stay vaguely on topic if I want to :na:

Or not.

I think I might have fish'n'chips for lunch, I'll burn the calories off at the Casbah later :innocent:

[mooncalf]

I started this thread, I'll stay vaguely on topic if I want to :na:

Or not.

I think I might have fish'n'chips for lunch, I'll burn the calories off at the Casbah later :innocent:

If you're looking for answers you're not gonna find any. So my are you happy was trying to make you see that. I'm trying to save you from a fruitless search. I was on topic but you didn't notice.

[KatieR]

I started this thread, I'll stay vaguely on topic if I want to :na:

Or not.

I think I might have fish'n'chips for lunch, I'll burn the calories off at the Casbah later :innocent:

but is free will allowing you the choice to have fish and chips for lunch? Or is it some preordained destiny that you will have fish and chips for lunch, go to the Casbah later, meet some tall dark and handsome stranger, get married, meet his best mate, divorce the tall dark and handsome stranger, marry his best mate, have lots of children, take out an ASBO on first husband because he is a stalker, your daughter becomes a teen hooker who finds Jesus after becoming an alcoholic, but becomes a role model for other off the rails teens..

[mooncalf]

but is free will allowing you the choice to have fish and chips for lunch? Or is it some preordained destiny that you will have fish and chips for lunch, go to the Casbah later, meet some tall dark and handsome stranger, get married, meet his best mate, divorce the tall dark and handsome stranger, marry his best mate, have lots of children, take out an ASBO on first husband because he is a stalker, your daughter becomes a teen hooker who finds Jesus after becoming an alcoholic, but becomes a role model for other of the rails teens..

When you say a teen hooker you mean a child prodigy rugby player?

[doc martin]

'Animals' in doc martin's excellent post also include humans - we go looking for coincidences too.
Yep, it was meant to. I would never imply that you were anything but an animal.

B]If[/B] I believed in astrology (I don't, Cancerians never do) and had read that yesterday morning, maybe I would have gone "looking" for the love of my life. In the unlikely event that I found them, that would reinforce my belief in astrology. All that could be said to reduce free will - because decisions during that day would not have been made on any scientific basis (astrology not being a science). However, I exercised free will in the first place by deciding to follow my stars...

Maybe I should conclude that any decision limits your freedom. My fence-sitting tendencies are thus vindicated.
You are not reducing free will or your freedom by making a decision. All previously made decisions are, to a greater or lesser extent, part of the context in which you make a current decision. If, each time you made a decision, you reduced the possibilities for your next decision, you would soon end up with no options. This clearly does not happen.

Each time you make a decision you open up different possibilities in the new context. You may not like some of these options. Indeed you may paint yourself into a corner where none of the options available seem desirable, but that does not mean you have no free will at this point.

Making no decision is also a decision and an exercise of free will. If you are standing on the rails and a train is coming towards you, you may think that your options are to jump right or left (or possibly run down the tracks away from the train), but you also have the option to do nothing. This decision could be consciously made, but may not be the best in the circumstances.

The same can be said of fence sitting. It is a conscious decision and an exercise of free will. It does change the possibilities available to you after you have made the decision. You may or may not like the possibilities available after the decision is taken.

[KatieR]

When you say a teen hooker you mean a child prodigy rugby player?

yeah, sure.... :rolleyes:

[Dreadful Scathe]

Of course we have free will - we can choose to do what we like. If only we could choose that others do what we like :).

[ducasi]

Is it worth mentioning that we're all imagining we have free will as it is a feature of the matrix that we are living in?

[LordOfTheFiles]

Of course we have free will - we can choose to do what we like. If only we could choose that others do what we like :).

I can. Lord. Easy

[LMC]

Yep, it was meant to. I would never imply that you were anything but an animal.
Purrrrrrrrrr


spotted the flaw in the argument...
You may or may not like the possibilities available after the decision is taken.
And then I change my mind .... I didn't like KatieR's prediction so I had soup and a panini for lunch instead. So now what's going to happen to me? :innocent:

[stewart38]

It wasnt free will it was all destine to happen

Like im going to post 3 more times on this thread and you are going to post 4 more times etc

After this i only have 2 more posts on this thread

Sad really that your whole life is mapped out :sad:

[doc martin]

Purrrrrrrrrr


And then I change my mind .... I didn't like KatieR's prediction so I had soup and a panini for lunch instead. So now what's going to happen to me? :innocent:
Indigestion? But only if you decide to have it.

After this i only have 2 more posts on this thread

Sad really that your whole life is mapped out
And you wasted one of them writing this? I suppose, according to your philosophy, you didn't have any choice about writing it. I say 'take control of your life', don't post any more on this thread.

[stewart38]

And you wasted one of them writing this? I suppose, according to your philosophy, you didn't have any choice about writing it. I say 'take control of your life', don't post any more on this thread.

I probably wouldnt have posted again but dont you see ?

Your post had made me post another . You had 'no choice' but to respond like you did and i had no choice but to respond

Ok im not going to post any more on this thread

Although according to fate im bound to post once more on this thread, sad really :sad: your whole life is in someone elses hands and their is nothing i can do about it :sad:

[LMC]

So what I need to do is wait until Stewart38 has run out of posts on this thread, and THEN say "Stewart38 smells".

Damn....

Satan made me post that.

[KatieR]

So what I need to do is wait until Stewart38 has run out of posts on this thread, and THEN say "Stewart38 smells".

Damn....

Satan made me post that.

Im afraid it was destiny, and not Satan that made you post....

you see you are going to post that Stuart 38 smells which will make you feel bad, which in turn will be the reason that the tall dark handsome stranger comes up to you and asks what is wrong which then leads to you getting married... and you know the rest of the story... :whistle:

[mooncalf]

hissssss

[LMC]

Ah, but I *wouldn't* feel bad about posting that Stewart38 smells, so you're still wrong. Yeah yeah, I know, I'll be deliriously happy and a tall dark handsome blah blah blah blah.

OK, now I've been forewarned, I can cheat destiny. Or whatever.

In revenge, I predict that you will be suffering from financial poverty, but will be spiritually rewarded with a couple of shiny/sparkly things - and that they will match, except that one is for left and one is for right...

[Trish]

What do you believe determines your personality and behaviour? - and can you live up to that?

Not sure - always had this thing about Fate though when I was younger - take this for example (it goes on a bit but is interesting as a case study):

I didn't do too well in my A levels, so I ended up going to Northampton to do my degree rather than Colchester. Whilst there, I met a girl called Alicia from Peterborough who I became friendly with, she introduced me to a guy, who I consequently moved to Peterborough to move in with. This didn't work out, but as I had a job and friends here etc I stuck around, and ended up marrying a guy from Peterborough. Strangly I met my husband Pete whilst on a night out with my friend Tina, who was Alicia's best friend when we were first at uni, but who consequently fell out with her.

Could this be Fate or Coincidence - or is it just the way things went? Would I still be married to the same man if I'd got better A levels and ended up in Colchester?

Presumably it's unlikely, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't have met someone else, and feel like this was fate instead.

What does anyone else think?

[Sorry don't really know anything about Thundercats - I can only just remember part of the theme tune.]

[LMC]

I would say it's just the way things went.

Of course our lives would turn out differently if major events had gone differently - if I hadn't got married, I wouldn't be where I am today - so no regrets, even though I'm now divorced.

Hmmm, Northampton and Peterborough aren't that far from each other, geographically speaking. My ex-husband and I ran into one of his ex-work colleagues from a company in Reading. We were in Reykjavik, Iceland.

[Gadget]

Hey i'm offended. What do you mean no meaning??? Levitating snakes for god's sake. What could have more meaning than that?!
A dictionary? It's got lots of meanings. A bank? It's got lots of meanies. Nowhere-land? It's got lots of blue meanies.

[Gadget]

With regard to free-will, couincedence and pre-ordained paths, every day causes me to be amazed by the coincedences that happen:

In Uni I used to walk or cycle everywhere. I had an 85-90% chance that traffic lights would change as I stepped up to them. Meant I hardly ever had to alter my stride when crossing roads and wandering about town. Unfortunatly it also worked when in a car... my brother got so fed-up of it that he started running amber lights when giving me a lift. :rolleyes:

Now I drive, there are even more coincedences;
... If I had been able to overtake on that long, straight bit of road, ould I now have a speeding fine?
... If I hadn't worked late, would it have been me spinning off the road?
... If someone hadn't let me out, would I now be stuck behind that tractor for miles?
... If that idiot hadn't cut me up, would I be slightly less observant and not noticed that cyclist was going to swerve to avoid a pot-hole?
...

Just because these things happen, does not mean that they are pre-ordained - it jsut means that things were set in motion that caused a chain of events leading to this moment in time. How I now react to them is free-will. But the descision made is somewhat bias by past events:
If the guy in the car that cut me up had had a decent breakfast, he might not heve been so tense. If his alarm had gone off on time rather than being woken by the cat, then he would have had time for breakfast. If his cat hadn't pulled the bedside lamp over, the water wouldn't have spilled into the alarm and fritzed it. If his girlfriend hadn't bought the cat three weeks before leaving him for someone else, he wouldn't have a cat. If I hadn't met his girlfreind, I wouldn't have convinced her that he was no good. So It's all my fault anyway! :sick: