PDA

View Full Version : Personality Theories/Frameworks/Classifications? Any point to them?



Magic Hans
2nd-December-2005, 12:33 PM
Are you a Cockerel or a Rat? A Saggitarius, or Leo? An Elder or a Spruce? A Plant or a Resource Finder? Kineasthetic or Auditory?

Sun signs, Chinese Horoscope, Celtic signs, Belbin, 4 Western Element, 5 Eastern ones, NLP modalities etc, etc, etc?

What's all that about then? Complete waste of time? Bit of entertaining triviality? Useful tool to help how we relate? Etched in stone rules that specifically determine who we are?

Thoughts please!!! What particular personality/character model(s) do you use? How are they helpful? And how are they better than the others?

[Answers on a postcard!]

David Bailey
3rd-December-2005, 09:25 AM
Are you a Cockerel or a Rat? A Saggitarius, or Leo? An Elder or a Spruce? A Plant or a Resource Finder? Kineasthetic or Auditory?
Junk, Junk, more junk, even more junk.


Sun signs, Chinese Horoscope, Celtic signs, Belbin, 4 Western Element, 5 Eastern ones, NLP modalities etc, etc, etc?
Cr&p, cr&p, cr&p, cr&p, cr&p, cr&p, and ... Oh, hold on, there may be something in NLP.


What's all that about then? Complete waste of time?
Absolutely.


Bit of entertaining triviality?
Possibly.


Useful tool to help how we relate? Etched in stone rules that specifically determine who we are?
No, and no.


Thoughts please!!! What particular personality/character model(s) do you use? How are they helpful? And how are they better than the others?
Anyone insane enough to have stuck through reading the sheer volume of discourse in the Star Signs Vs. Dancers (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6136&page=2) thread will probably be aware that I have ... views ... on astrology.

Please feel free to assume that with the exception of NLP I have similar levels of view for pretty much all of that list.

Having said that, I think there's useful information to be gleaned from many systems of "personality/character model(s)" - but that the tendency of many people to treat each system as the One True Way Of Understanding And Predicting People renders many of these modelling techniques less effective.

People are complex. You can never really know another person; the most you can do is make guesses as to how that person may react in some situatiosn. But you may be wrong. That's where the fun comes from.

WittyBird
3rd-December-2005, 11:40 AM
Oh, hold on, there may be something in NLP.
NLP :worthy: have studied it for a long time.


People are complex. You can never really know another person; the most you can do is make guesses as to how that person may react in some situatiosn. But you may be wrong. That's where the fun comes from.

:yeah: Body language and people watching for me :rofl: some people are more interesting to study than others! And some people:eek: well quite frankly I wonder how they were the fastest sperm to the egg :rofl:

DavidY
3rd-December-2005, 12:00 PM
Belbin
, cr&p,Interested in this one. I thought the Belbin team roles might have had some science or research or something behind them.

From memory I thought Belbin involved a questionnaire with lots of questions asking what you're like, then you get a result saying what you're like...

Maybe not rocket science, but is it really on the same level as the astrological stuff? :confused:

Magic Hans
3rd-December-2005, 01:41 PM
Maybe there is a difference here.

There is this astrology thing (be it eastern or western) that claims to be able to define or describe a personality based on time and date of birth, and quite possibly that of parents as well (grandparents? Not too sure!)

There are also models as to how to describe and classify people, based purely on their behaviour (verbal or otherwise). [And before anyone jumps in to say that no system can describe anything - this is a model, a broad approximation to reality that is open to interpretation, not to mention good and bad use .... bit like statistics really!!]

I'm not going to rubbish astrology, until such point that I have studied it in depth. I won't study it in depth until it interests me enough! Beside, 12 or 13 personality types are too complicated for my simple ways.

I, personally, use a personality model/framework, because it allows me to better understand and relate to those around me. The one that I favour is base on the elements, and is at least as old as Shakespeare:

Popular Sanguine - The Talker - Life and Soul of the Party [Fire]
Powerful Choleric - The Doer - Gets the Job done, no matter [Wind]
Perfect Melancholy - The Thinker - Considered, planned, meticulous [Water]
Peaceful Phlegmatic - The Watcher - easy going, quiet, supportive [Earth]

[I also like to bear in mind the NLP Modalities]

It really doesn't bother me if there is no truth or research behind this. It is enough for me that this tool a) helps me to accept behaviours of others that aren't in my behavioural vocabulary and b) allows me to get along with (relate to) other more effectively.

IMO in may well be that there is something in Eastern/Western astrology, however with 12-13 signs plus all the ascending/desceding ones, it's far more complicated than 3-4, and a little judgement and common sense!!

WittyBird
3rd-December-2005, 01:48 PM
I, personally, use a personality model/framework, because it allows me to better understand and relate to those around me. The one that I favour is base on the elements, and is at least as old as Shakespeare:

Popular Sanguine - The Talker - Life and Soul of the Party [Fire]
Powerful Choleric - The Doer - Gets the Job done, no matter [Wind]
Perfect Melancholy - The Thinker - Considered, planned, meticulous [Water]
Peaceful Phlegmatic - The Watcher - easy going, quiet, supportive [Earth]

[I also like to bear in mind the NLP Modalities]


Hmmmm..
So how would you describe yourself then?
how would your friends describe you?

Dreadful Scathe
3rd-December-2005, 02:02 PM
Are you a Cockerel or a Rat? A Saggitarius, or Leo? An Elder or a Spruce? A Plant or a Resource Finder? Kineasthetic or Auditory?

Sun signs, Chinese Horoscope, Celtic signs, Belbin, 4 Western Element, 5 Eastern ones, NLP modalities etc, etc, etc?

What's all that about then? Complete waste of time? Bit of entertaining triviality? Useful tool to help how we relate? Etched in stone rules that specifically determine who we are?

Thoughts please!!! What particular personality/character model(s) do you use? How are they helpful? And how are they better than the others?

[Answers on a postcard!]

A very interesting topic. Its also not particularly controversial, shame on you. You could have rewritten it like this ;)



Are you a saved soul or a damned soul? Are you on the path to enlightenment or not? Zeus or Athena? Is it valhalla or reincarnation ?

Muslim, Jew, Christian, Pagan, Roman, Greek, Norse, Buddhist, etc, etc?

What's all that about then? Complete waste of time? Bit of entertaining triviality? Useful tool to help how we relate? Etched in stone rules that specifically determine who we are?

Thoughts please!!! What particular religion/religious rules do you use? How is it helpful? And how is it better than the others?


For some reason these beliefs are less easy to talk about!

Magic Hans
3rd-December-2005, 02:03 PM
Hmmmm..
So how would you describe yourself then?
how would your friends describe you?

Me?? Fundamentally Peaceful Phlegmatic, with some Popular Sanguine in there!!

[It simply seems to fit, also matching a very early school report of mine describing me as 'genuinely liked by his peers, irrespective of age,, 'lacadaisical in every way', 'sees no need for any self discipline which is reflected in how he looks after his personal belongings'!]

... I also appreciate that one of my character weaknesses is that I can sometimes slowly slip into a deep pit of inaction, and need a right kick up the *rse every once in a while (self or other inflicted!)

WittyBird
3rd-December-2005, 02:09 PM
... I also appreciate that one of my character weaknesses is that I can sometimes slowly slip into a deep pit of inaction, and need a right kick up the *rse every once in a while (self or other inflicted!)

Why do people always assume that weaknesses have to be something derrogatory (sp?) can't be a**ed to get dictionary out.:really:

I get it with people I interview. It bores me :rolleyes:

David Bailey
3rd-December-2005, 02:10 PM
Interested in this one. I thought the Belbin team roles might have had some science or research or something behind them.

From memory I thought Belbin involved a questionnaire with lots of questions asking what you're like, then you get a result saying what you're like...

Maybe not rocket science, but is it really on the same level as the astrological stuff? :confused:
Oops, yes, sorry, I just lumped that in with the others without reading - hey, didn't you see the sig? :whistle:

From Wikipedia: Meredith Belbin was the management guru guy - he created the 9 team roles:
- action-oriented roles - Shaper, Implementer, and Completer Finisher
- people-oriented roles - Co-ordinator, Teamworker and Resource Investigator
- cerebral roles - Plant, Monitor Evaluator and Specialist

I did a course on management a while back, these ring a bell.

So, not total junk. My apologies.



There is this astrology thing (be it eastern or western) that claims to be able to define or describe a personality based on time and date of birth, and quite possibly that of parents as well (grandparents? Not too sure!)
From memory, there are maybe 4 major types of astrology - the very fact that there are multiple conflicting systems to me was a mjor indication of the essential faith-based nature of astrology.


There are also models as to how to describe and classify people, based purely on their behaviour (verbal or otherwise). [And before anyone jumps in to say that no system can describe anything - this is a model, a broad approximation to reality that is open to interpretation, not to mention good and bad use .... bit like statistics really!!]
Yes - I agree. Models of human behaviour can be and are useful - psychology and economics use models all the time. But I doubt that neither a professional psychologist or economist would ever attempt to claim these models were any more than rough approximations and guesswork.

In other words, :yeah: :)


I'm not going to rubbish astrology, until such point that I have studied it in depth.
:rofl: - you don't need to study it in depth to be able to rubbish it, believe me... :whistle:

David Bailey
3rd-December-2005, 02:14 PM
Why do people always assume that weaknesses have to be something derrogatory (sp?) can't be a**ed to get dictionary out.:really:

I get it with people I interview. It bores me :rolleyes:
Just out of interest, what would you recommend as an answer when Evil Job Interviewer asks you what your weaknesses are?

WittyBird
3rd-December-2005, 02:24 PM
Just out of interest, what would you recommend as an answer when Evil Job Interviewer asks you what your weaknesses are?

Turn it round on them and make it a benefit. Interviewers don't ask for your weaknesses because they want to know bad things about you, they want to see what your problem solving abilities etc are:whistle:

Basically its overcoming any objections and dealing with issues etc before they arise.

David Bailey
3rd-December-2005, 05:17 PM
Turn it round on them and make it a benefit. Interviewers don't ask for your weaknesses because they want to know bad things about you, they want to see what your problem solving abilities etc are:whistle:

Basically its overcoming any objections and dealing with issues etc before they arise.
There's a good Dilbert cartoon about this - Dilbert claims his major weakness is working too hard, his boss says "why is that a weakness" and Dilbert answers something along the lines of "because I work so many hours, I have a tendency to starve to death at my desk if I don't watch out." (OK, well I thought it was funny).

So, that's the sort of thing, yes? :innocent:

WittyBird
3rd-December-2005, 05:22 PM
So, that's the sort of thing, yes? :innocent:

Ish :eek:

jivecat
3rd-December-2005, 06:29 PM
Turn it round on them and make it a benefit. Interviewers don't ask for your weaknesses because they want to know bad things about you, they want to see what your problem solving abilities etc are:whistle:

Basically its overcoming any objections and dealing with issues etc before they arise.

Yeah, at my last interview I said I was far too conscientious and hard-working.:rofl: :rofl:

They fell for it!:clap: :clap:

Feelingpink
4th-December-2005, 10:32 AM
Are you a Cockerel or a Rat? A Saggitarius, or Leo? An Elder or a Spruce? A Plant or a Resource Finder? Kineasthetic or Auditory?

Sun signs, Chinese Horoscope, Celtic signs, Belbin, 4 Western Element, 5 Eastern ones, NLP modalities etc, etc, etc?

What's all that about then? Complete waste of time? Bit of entertaining triviality? Useful tool to help how we relate? Etched in stone rules that specifically determine who we are?

Thoughts please!!! What particular personality/character model(s) do you use? How are they helpful? And how are they better than the others?

[Answers on a postcard!]On a day-to-day basis, I don't use any of these categories, but they do work well when I'm having "problems" with someone and help make me more understanding.

For instance, I had a Libran friend a few years ago who was forever sitting on the fence not making decisions, saying "On the one hand ...". It could have driven me up the wall, but could say to myself "he's the scales of justice sign of the zodiac who is trying to balance everything up." A Capricorn friend who is relatively young and far too bossy and controlling just needs to lighten up, probably will, because Capricorns can age in reverse - having their childhood with their pension book. Huge generalisations, but they have helped me be more tolerant & have better friendships and other kinds of relationships.

The more 'scientific' NLP is useful when working - using action statements and covering the different modalities in sales literature. With client meetings, if it feels as if we're not matching each other, I'll try to figure out their modality and match it. If everything is going well, I just enjoy the ride and don't forget to keep listening to the clients.

From a Cancerian, ENFP, visual kind of Autumn person.

David Bailey
4th-December-2005, 01:18 PM
For instance, I had a Libran friend ....
Now, them's fighting words we're I comes from, young lady.

Luckily I don't have time at the moment to get too rant-y, so I'll limit myself to "PAH!"

Magic Hans
4th-December-2005, 03:45 PM
Turn it round on them and make it a benefit. Interviewers don't ask for your weaknesses because they want to know bad things about you, they want to see what your problem solving abilities etc are:whistle:

Basically its overcoming any objections and dealing with issues etc before they arise.


Might that be a reason for interviews being generally regarded as little more than a lottery? [perhaps I'm exaggerating for effect] Last that I heard, interviews tend to be won or lost in the first 30 secs or so (2 mins at most). Some manner of full day assessment involving a number of candidates was shown to be far more effective at selecting appropriate candidates [can't remember the source, might look it up later]

Quite frankly, I appreciate that I am human, that I am good and outstanding at some activities, and poor and average at others, also that I don't always work at my best, and can, sometimes be a bit cr*p.

Unfortunately, true authenticity doesn't seem to be a quality that's particularly appreciated ... especially in the workplace. Sad really.

ducasi
4th-December-2005, 08:51 PM
Now, them's fighting words we're I comes from, young lady.

Luckily I don't have time at the moment to get too rant-y, so I'll limit myself to "PAH!"
Why do you take these things so personally?

I think you need to chill. Maybe some aromatherapy would help. :flower:


:wink:

David Bailey
4th-December-2005, 08:57 PM
Why do you take these things so personally?

I think you need to chill. Maybe some aromatherapy would help. :flower:


:wink:
Actually, my philosophy is based around the ancient and mystical art of replexology, developed over centuries by some monks somewhere up in a mountain a long way away.

LMC
5th-December-2005, 10:40 AM
[ MODE=Fast Show ]It's all b*****ks [/ MODE ]

Sorry, couldn't resist that... actually, I'm also an NLP fan and IMO the management-y guru type stuff - Belbin, Myers Briggs, et al - can be useful in recognising strengths and weaknesses. But set in stone? - Absolutely not.

To me, the whole point of personality analysis type stuff is not to make excuses e.g. "Oh, I'll never finish anything because I'm a Plant". IMO, the point is to recognise and accept your strengths and weaknesses, build on the former and try to improve on the latter without beating yourself up about it. Being conscious of others' personalities can help give you an insight in how to 'deal with them' in a way that make the encounter as pleasant as possible for both of you.

WittyBird
5th-December-2005, 01:29 PM
Quite frankly, I appreciate that I am human, that I am good and outstanding at some activities, and poor and average at others, also that I don't always work at my best, and can, sometimes be a bit cr*p.



Like anything else if you have a positive attitude people will want to be around you, like a magnet you will draw people in. If your a negative prick you wont.

This weekend for example....

I got flashed by a speed camera - doing 60 in a 30 (my fault)
I fell down the stairs
Major road was shut whilst i was on it and had to find an alternative route meaning i nearly missed Berko last night.
I nearly totalled my car!
Our network admin w4nk3rs at work blocked the forum

I am still laughing about all that.... if i whinged do u think i would have friends?

Magic Hans
5th-December-2005, 05:57 PM
Like anything else if you have a positive attitude people will want to be around you, like a magnet you will draw people in. If your a negative prick you wont.

...

I couldn't agree more!! I'm a strong believer in the adage "It's not what happens to us that's important, but how we deal with it".

Last month was a strange month for me .... starting new job, got knocked of my scooter (sustained a bruised little finger!! ... well ok, it might be a bit broke!), lost my phone, took time out from a girl I was seeing, courtesy scooter got knicked within 2 days of recieving it [... I was installing Broadband for a friend at the time. Once we'd had a quick scout around to make sure that it had gone, I went back to the job, and finished it off!!]

... but, that's life sometimes!! It can be a bit sh*tty, ain't gonna stop me from doing stuff.

I will not, however, pretend to be happy when I'm churned up, or angry as hell. I'll deal with it in my way, until that, too, has passed!

I think wordsworth said:

Man was made for Joy and Woe
Then when this we rightly no
Through the world we'll safely go

Joy and Woe are woven fine
A clothing for the soul to bind. [Minde, he probablie added e's ontoe everie other worde]

David Bailey
5th-December-2005, 08:25 PM
if i whinged do u think i would have friends?
:eek: :blush: :tears: