Rubbishing ceroc (we're so much better now)

[stewart38]

There seems to be a band of 10 or so forum members who jump down your throat with nasty comments and or PM if you dare say anything they dont agree with. They have a herd mentality so i expect lost of -ve rep for this

I find this a great pitty

I dont want to hi jack the Funky Lush thread which was a lovely sucessful event.




Actualy Stewart ... you are wrong. Chef has made an excellent statement from his point of view which is not bounded by having to represent the Ceroc(tm) view and benefits from his wider dancing perspective. To rubbish it with such demeaning comments is far more a reflection on your sad lack of understanding than on any agenda on Chef's part. In fact there isn't even any point in neg-repping you ... you have done yourself more damage by your comments than any neg rep could do. Please copntinue your self-defacement in public ... it quite amusing.:flower:



Gus if you want to –ve rep me over this comment aimed at the 350,000 cerocers that go through the door of a ceroc class each year please fill free to do so but explain why. If its 250,000 im sure ill get flammed so ill apologise in advance


I expressed the view that I thought his job was made considerably easier by the fact there were no Ceroc classes in his area so at least he didn't have to waste effort training out of all the bad habits that Ceroc dancers get into.



Perhaps there should have been guards on the door of Funky Lush to keep you out :devil:

yes keep ‘that sort out’ :mad: If you want to keep out people who have a different opinion fine whats that say ?

I loved Funky lush all i said i found some of the comments re ceroc very unfair to the ceroc punter

Why not cut the crap and say ceroc isnt a real dance and your only a real dancer when you have move on .

Dont some people realise how elitist some of the comments sound and maybe thats why only 30 regular people post out of 1,500 + people who joined the site :mad:

One thread you have people who bounce too much and then we have



There are going to be dancers that want to make the change from the bouncy style of Ceroc

So should we all bounce a little in ceroc ?

Thanks DJ for appearing to be non elitist

If i came out with a comment 'I think Im glad there is no Jango near me' as Id waste so much time unteaching them the bad habits they have learnt' id be lynched ! It would sound a bit 'hot shotty' ??

[stewart38]

There seems to be a band of 10 or so forum members who jump down your throat with nasty comments and or PM if you dare say anything they dont agree with. They have a herd mentality so i expect lost of -ve rep for this


For example





Ooh, 800 moves! That's a lot! Bet the book that holds them must be impressive. In fact, I bet it resembles a telephone directory...



If someone makes a comment 3yrs ago on a thread it was debated or rubbished at the time,some agreed

what does it make you sound like ??

Hey 'he said that 3 yrs ago' or she said that 4yrs ago he/she isnt one of us

Im so sorry its 450 moves , i though it was more

[Gus]

So should we all bounce a little in ceroc ??OK ... lets clear this one straihgjht away. 'Bouncing' is a Modern Jive phenomena, not just Ceroc(tm). The bouncing tends NOT to come from the semi-circle (and there are good reasons to teach that) but from dancers counting the beat with their hand that translates into body movement. Its a 'bad habit' like many other, but can get trained out. I dont believe that Ceroc itself trains in bad habits, but that the lack of personal attention can allow bad habits to manifest and become ingrained.

Ceroc SHOULD NOT BE LAMBASTED. I've probably had more run ins with Ceroc and more reason to dislike it than most people on the Forum, yet I'm still a big fan of Ceroc and look forward to its continual development and expansion (but hopefully not at the expense of the indpendants). People quickly forget that Ceroc alone took a big risk in fundamentally changing the structure of how beginers are taught. Hopefully soon they will do someting similar for intermediates and above. There are also a number of franchisees who are being innovative with their product offering, Franck and Annalisa being great examples.

Whether or not people want to neg rep forumites for insenstive postings though is another matter indeed ... :whistle:

[David Franklin]

If someone makes a comment 3yrs ago on a thread it was debated or rubbished at the time,some agreed

Hey 'he said that 3 yrs ago' or she said that 4yrs ago he/she isnt one of usIn the interests of truth and accuracy, it was almost exactly a year ago.

Although it was rubbished, it was strikingly put - there was something about it that made it stick in minds. Sometimes phrases take on a life all of their own, whether we like it or not...


what does it make you sound like ??
Am I bovvered? Look at me - do I look bovvered?

[TiggsTours]

I just posted this in the Funky Lush thread, but it fits much better in here:


OK, when I last checked this thread, it was a nicey nicey thread about how great Funky Lush was, and I don't see that anyone has had a different opinion on that at all, so, why has it decended into a war zone?!

Why do people suddenly jump on someone who dares to say "I like dancing with advanced dancers more than beginners"?, WHY? Why can't we all just admit that we feel the same way?

We have paid to go out for a nice evening of dancing, why shouldn't we all want to dance with someone good? Even if we ourselves are still a beginner, or once were (and some of us may have to search the dim and distant crevices of our memory banks here) didn't we even then prefer dancing with a good dancer to a bad one? And lets get that right, we're talking bad dancers, not beginners, there are plenty of beginners who are far better dancers than people who have been dancing for years, so, Icey, I'll have no more of this "I'm not good enough to take the space of a more experienced dancer" talk from you!

The type of music played at Funky Lush is more likely to appeal to the good dancer than the bouncy bouncy arm yanking dancer, so I say, bring it on! There is plenty of choice around for everyone, so let those of us who don't like the bouncy bouncy arm yankers have our night too!

Also, why do people associate the bouncy bouncy arm yanker with Ceroc? I know plenty of people who dance that way who don't have a Ceroc venue within 50 miles of where they live!

Just because we "prefer" to dance with good dancers, doesn't make us bad people, we still dance with bad dancers, and beginners of all abilities, we're not elitist, just expressing a preference!

I, personally, prefer to go to see a fully trained concert pianist at the Royal Albert Hall backed by the Royal Philharmonic, that doesn't mean I won't go to my 8 year old niece's school piano concert, and thoroughly enjoy her performance either!

[David Bailey]

Thanks DJ for appearing to be non elitist
It's only appearance, I hate everyone really.


If i came out with a comment 'I think Im glad there is no Jango near me' as Id waste so much time unteaching them the bad habits they have learnt' id be lynched ! It would sound a bit 'hot shotty' ??
I'm actually sad there's no Jango near me :sad:


Am I bovvered? Look at me - do I look bovvered?
Actually, you look dizzy... how many turns is that now?

[ChrisA]

Ceroc SHOULD NOT BE LAMBASTED.
And for the record, I strongly agree with this, as I've said lots of times before.

I have Ceroc to thank for the fact that I got back into dancing when I did, after being away from it for too many years. So long may Ceroc continue to prosper.

And I have to thank some of the independents for me not giving up MJ when I got bored and unable to improve. So long may they continue to be an incentive to Ceroc to get even better.

[stewart38]

It's only appearance, I hate everyone really.



But you have 749 points you must say nice things

where ?

me try -------

I think Jango at Ashtons on a Sunday being played to Funky Lush music would appeal to the more 'informed dancer' :flower: :clap:

--------------------

[David Bailey]

you must say nice things

where ?
I think I said someone was a nice dancer sometime. But I was young and callow then.

Hmmm, I've just realised that I've used that phrase for ages, but never known what callow meant - I was thinking of a candle for some reason.

See - post enough total junk, and you too will get rep! :na:

[stewart38]

See - post enough total junk, and you too will get rep! :na:

House clearance

Lots of old crap going including


Well flame away but Im afraid Ive seen more musical interpretation in a telephone directory



This needs to go to a buyer that will lock it away and never bring it out or mention it again. :sad:

[El Salsero Gringo]

The Lord Giveth:
I dont believe that Ceroc itself trains in bad habits...The Lord taketh away:
..but that the lack of personal attention can allow bad habits to manifest and become ingrained.
The Lord giveth:
Ceroc SHOULD NOT BE LAMBASTED.The Lord taketh away:
I've probably had more run ins with Ceroc and more reason to dislike it than most people on the Forum,

The Lord giveth:
...yet I'm still a big fan of Ceroc and look forward to its continual development and expansionThe Lord taketh away:
(but hopefully not at the expense of the indpendants).

The Lord giveth:
People quickly forget that Ceroc alone took a big risk in fundamentally changing the structure of how beginers are taught.you get the picture:
Hopefully soon they will do someting similar for intermediates and above.

Sometimes, Gus, you just crease me up. Do you ever say *anything* nice about Ceroc without qualifying it?

[ChrisA]

Do you ever say *anything* nice about Ceroc without qualifying it?
Do you ever say anything nice about anything?

The whole world exists to amuse you when you poke at it, doesn't it?

There was nothing nasty about Gus' post, and yet you just have to pull it apart in such a way as to make light of it.

I'd be quite interested to know if you have any actual opinions, or nice things to say, or comments on dancing (or about anything else for that matter), that don't start with something someone else has posted, quite genuinely, that you then shred, sentence by sentence, word by word, in order to ridicule. Or that you haven't started yourself, just to wind people up.

[stewart38]

The Lord Giveth:The Lord taketh away:
The Lord giveth:The Lord taketh away:

The Lord giveth:The Lord taketh away:

The Lord giveth:you get the picture:

Sometimes, Gus, you just crease me up. Do you ever say *anything* nice about Ceroc without qualifying it?

That almost made me crack a smile :sick:

[El Salsero Gringo]

There was nothing nasty about Gus' post, and yet you just have to pull it apart in such a way as to make light of it.It's called "damning with faint praise."

But you're right. I shouldn't have said what I said. The contradictions in Gus's post were so obvious that they didn't need a pedant like me to point them out. Anyone with even half a brain could see them for themselves.
I'd be quite interested to know if you have any actual opinions, or nice things to say, or comments on dancing (or about anything else for that matter), that don't start with something someone else has posted, quite genuinely, that you then shred, sentence by sentence, word by word, in order to ridicule. Or that you haven't started yourself, just to wind people up.I have lots of strong opinions on many things. I enjoy arguing them with you, with Andy McG and others - way past the point where most people get bored and go find another thread. And I expect and welcome being challenged on any and all of them.

[mooncalf]

It's called "damning with faint praise."

But you're right. I shouldn't have said what I said. The contradictions in Gus's post were so obvious that they didn't need a pedant like me to point them out. Anyone with even half a brain could see them for themselves.I have lots of strong opinions on many things. I enjoy arguing them with you, with Andy McG and others - way past the point where most people get bored and go find another thread. And I expect and welcome being challenged on any and all of them.

Can someone please explain to me the difference between a caveat and a contradiction.

Where's a Venn diagram when you need one?

[ChrisA]

The contradictions in Gus's post were so obvious that they didn't need a pedant like me to point them out. Anyone with even half a brain could see them for themselves.

Interesting and extraordinary that you say that. I could see the way he qualified each comment about Ceroc, but I didn't see any of them as contradictions - quite the reverse, actually. I'll just pick one as an example....


I've probably had more run ins with Ceroc and more reason to dislike it than most people on the Forum, yet I'm still a big fan of Ceroc and look forward to its continual development and expansion (but hopefully not at the expense of the indpendants).

This comes over to me as more positive towards Ceroc than if he'd just said:


I'm still a big fan of Ceroc and look forward to its continual development and expansion

... since it implies, that even though he has reasons for seeing their bad points, he's still a supporter. It's like being loved warts and all, rather than being idolised for what's on the surface. If you see that sort of thing just as a contradiction, then I think I understand where a lot more of what you say is coming from.


I have lots of strong opinions on many things. I enjoy arguing them with you, with Andy McG and others - way past the point where most people get bored and go find another thread. And I expect and welcome being challenged on any and all of them.
I know that. As I say, not often anything new from you that doesn't seem to stem just from a desire to bait people.

[stewart38]

There was nothing nasty about Gus' post, and yet you just have to pull it apart in such a way as to make light of it.

.




The point being? OK .. I'll used to know the 450 official Ceroc moves ... does that make my point any more valid? Shall I drag across a few respected Ceroc teachers for them to back up Chef's comments befoe you listen.



Im free Friday :whistle:

[David Franklin]

Stewart38 quoted Gus thus:
The point being? OK .. I'll used to know the 450 official Ceroc moves ... does that make my point any more valid? Shall I drag across a few respected Ceroc teachers for them to back up Chef's comments befoe you listen.
Stewart, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you've just made a mistake. Given that none of the above appears in this thread, it's pretty clearly not the post ChrisA was referring to.

[ChrisA]

Can someone please explain to me the difference between a caveat and a contradiction.

Where's a Venn diagram when you need one?
:D

A caveat is something you should bear in mind, and be a bit wary of.

For example, "this product is very cheap, but the caveat is that everything I've bought there in the past has fallen to pieces".

A qualification is something that makes something less severe or extreme. So for example, "I thought the music was fab, although there were one or two tracks I hated", is qualified, since it makes what is said less "100%", if you like.

In fact, I realise I used the word "qualification" wrongly just now, in the context of what Gus said - because as I say, I think his "qualifications" made it sound more pro-Ceroc, not less, than if they hadn't been there.

A contradiction is where you say one thing, and then you say something that means exactly the opposite.

Pointing out a contradiction is not the same as what ESG does. Which is to take something someone has said in one context, something else they've said in another context, stick them together with quotes round them, and then poke fun at the apparent contradiction. Usually it isn't any such thing.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Interesting and extraordinary that you say that. I could see the way he qualified each comment about Ceroc, but I didn't see any of them as contradictions - quite the reverse, actually.In that case, I take back what I said about it being a mistake to have posted, on the grounds of obviousness. There are clearly some people who didn't read his post the way I did, and so I'm happy to point out that to at least one person (me) it comes over as very faint praise indeed.

There are many ways to send a message in a piece of text; for a classic example of the opposite technique (saying literally-bad things while having a positive meaning) see Mark Antony's speech to the masses - "Friends, Romans, Countrymen! Lend me your ears. I come not to praise Caesar but to bury him."

[mooncalf]

In that case, I take back what I said about it being a mistake to have posted, on the grounds of obviousness. There are clearly some people who didn't read his post the way I did, and so I'm happy to point out that to at least one person (me) it sounded like very faint praise indeed.

A bunch of Zulus approaching in the distance sounded like a train but they weren't. Maybe it depends on what you expect to hear.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Maybe it depends on what you expect to hear.The most perceptive comment in this thread so far, by a long way, I think.

[Feelingpink]

There seems to be a band of 10 or so forum members who jump down your throat with nasty comments and or PM if you dare say anything they dont agree with. They have a herd mentality so i expect lost of -ve rep for this

I don't have a problem with Ceroc at all. What I do have a problem with is your rubbishing anyone who disagrees with you. We all have our own opinions - and I have disagreed with just about everyone on this forum at least once, so please don't feel too special. It's just the nature of a public forum.

I apologise for making such a barbed comment about having guard dogs on the door at FunkyLush for you and I'm glad you liked it (FL, not the comment). There were two reasons I made it: 1. I was so exasperated at your trashing Chef's comments without apparently reading all of his post 2. You really upset another forumite and friend of mine last week and in your PMed apology, apparently at least partially blamed a fellow forumite for the comments. Someone else might have made the bullets, but you fired them and you need to take responsibility for this. I would have had a real problem dancing with you had you asked on Saturday night.

As I said, I'm sorry I made such a nasty comment and I"m going to try not to do so again.

[stewart38]

I don't have a problem with Ceroc at all. What I do have a problem with is your rubbishing anyone who disagrees with you. We all have our own opinions - and I have disagreed with just about everyone on this forum at least once, so please don't feel too special. It's just the nature of a public forum.

I apologise for making such a barbed comment about having guard dogs on the door at FunkyLush for you and I'm glad you liked it (FL, not the comment). There were two reasons I made it: 1. I was so exasperated at your trashing Chef's comments without apparently reading all of his post 2. You really upset another forumite and friend of mine last week and in your PMed apology, apparently at least partially blamed a fellow forumite for the comments. Someone else might have made the bullets, but you fired them and you need to take responsibility for this. I would have had a real problem dancing with you had you asked on Saturday night.

As I said, I'm sorry I made such a nasty comment and I"m going to try not to do so again.


What kind of guard dogs ??

I dont think ive ever rubbish anyone that has disagreed with me ? there usually right anyway :sick:

I did not TRASH chefs comments i didnt agree with many of the points raised :mad:

[El Salsero Gringo]

I would have had a real problem dancing with you had you asked on Saturday night.Stewart - you have been warned!

[Will]

The irony of thread / debate is that the event that has the highest number of "Top / good / whatever" dancers isn't Funky Lush, or Monday Night Jango, or the T-Jive. It's actually a Ceroc event - namely the Ceroc Championships (ok, so it's an annual event, but I thought I'd throw that in there all the same :whistle: )...

[Feelingpink]

Stewart - you have been warned!Sorry to say that I've calmed down and would be very happy to dance with S38 any time in the future (I enjoyed our dance at the Greenwich party night). It takes far too much energy to stay angry at people ... there are many other better uses for it :devil:

[stewart38]

Sorry to say that I've calmed down and would be very happy to dance with S38 any time in the future (I enjoyed our dance at the Greenwich party night). It takes far too much energy to stay angry at people ... there are many other better uses for it :devil:

Yes id like to announce me and Feeling Pink will be entering the Hammersmith Dance champs as .....................


The irony of thread / debate is that the event that has the highest number of "Top / good / whatever" dancers isn't Funky Lush, or Monday Night Jango, or the T-Jive. It's actually a Ceroc event - namely the Ceroc Championships (ok, so it's an annual event, but I thought I'd throw that in there all the same :whistle: )...


'whatever dancers'. :flower:

[Andy McGregor]

I have lots of strong opinions on many things. I enjoy arguing them with you, with Andy McG and others - way past the point where most people get bored and go find another thread. And I expect and welcome being challenged on any and all of them.Of course ESG has strong opinions. Although many of his arguments are weak he usually puts them in strong, well worded, terms. This leaves very little room for ESG to change his mind in the light of counter-arguments - rather like my own stance. On those rare occasions ESG and I agree it is very, very dull :whistle:

Back on topic. I don't think we're any better at rubbishing Ceroc than we were a few years ago :devil:

The difference is that Ceroc is changing so fast you're not sure if you're rubbishing something that's old news. For instance, I'm no longer going on about smoking at Ceroc Kent venues because I've no up to date information on the subject. I have observed that pupils at Ceroc classes get no individual attention after their first 6 weeks. And I put the high incidence of bad habits down to this failure to follow pupils through the learning curve.

What Ceroc is good at is recruiting beginners and keeping them for a while. Their whole business model seems to be based on this. If that's so we can hardly rubbish them for not teaching advanced technique or musicality any more than we can criticise McDonalds for not offering table service and proper crockery and cutlery. However, anybody claiming that the Ceroc model and no other teaching produces advanced dancers would probably get some stick on here.

[TiggsTours]

I have observed that pupils at Ceroc classes get no individual attention after their first 6 weeks. And I put the high incidence of bad habits down to this failure to follow pupils through the learning curve.

So, you've never been to a venue that has a taxi dancer then? Perhaps you ought to try it.

[Chef]

So, you've never been to a venue that has a taxi dancer then? Perhaps you ought to try it.

I have never been to a Ceroc venue where a Taxi dancer has ever taught lead and follow or musicality (I can only talk about my local area). If you know of one I would really like to hear your venue recommendations because I have five women and two guys here at work who have caught the Ceroc bug in the run up to Christmas and I would really like to reccommend a venue for them to attend where these things are taught.

My Ceroc teacher in my home town wanted to introduce classes on these subjects (rather like Francks in Stirling) but, much to my disappointment, this idea was ruled out by the franchise holder.

Any information that you have on these venues would be gratefully recieved.

[TiggsTours]

I have never been to a Ceroc venue where a Taxi dancer has ever taught lead and follow or musicality (I can only talk about my local area). If you know of one I would really like to hear your venue recommendations because I have five women and two guys here at work who have caught the Ceroc bug in the run up to Christmas and I would really like to reccommend a venue for them to attend where these things are taught.

My Ceroc teacher in my home town wanted to introduce classes on these subjects (rather like Francks in Stirling) but, much to my disappointment, this idea was ruled out by the franchise holder.

Any information that you have on these venues would be gratefully recieved.
Try Twickenham or Ashtons, I'm sure there're more.

[El Salsero Gringo]

What Ceroc is good at is recruiting beginners and keeping them for a while. Their whole business model seems to be based on this. If that's so we can hardly rubbish them for not teaching advanced technique or musicality any more than we can criticise McDonalds for not offering table service and proper crockery and cutlery. However, anybody claiming that the Ceroc model and no other teaching produces advanced dancers would probably get some stick on here.I agree with that. Does that mean what Andy says is very dull? I suspect it does.

[Andy McGregor]

I agree with that. Does that mean what Andy says is very dull? I suspect it does.Nearly. It means that we agree. And reading a thread where people get all luvvy and agree with each other is dull IMHO.

So, you've never been to a venue that has a taxi dancer then? Perhaps you ought to try it.I've been to many Ceroc venues and my observation is that the beginners are the ones who get the coaching from Taxi dancers. I've NEVER seen a Ceroc Taxi dancer take an experienced dancer to one side and help them overcome their bad habits or give them any other coaching for that matter. Maybe they're trying something new at Ashtons:whistle:

[lindyloo]

Maybe they're trying something new at Ashtons:whistle:

We have so many good dancers at Ashton's it would take too long!!

P.S though we are trying pole dancing lessons on the 27th - I guess that's new - this could definitely teach people a thing or two XX

[dee]

We have so many good dancers at Ashton's it would take too long!!

P.S though we are trying pole dancing lessons on the 27th - I guess that's new - this could definitely teach people a thing or two XX

Missy D and i will be going and we can't wait :clap:

[Gadget]

However, anybody claiming that the Ceroc model and no other teaching produces advanced dancers would probably get some stick on here.Don't know that I like the term "advanced", but I've been working on it and I'm assured I'm not that bad a dancer... only from the "Ceroc model" of teaching. :whistle:

{Or more accuratly Franck's twist on the Ceroc model :wink:}

[Chef]

P.S though we are trying pole dancing lessons on the 27th - I guess that's new - this could definitely teach people a thing or two XX

For anyone that can't wait that long (or come away wanting more) may want to look at the website

http://www.mypole.co.uk

A really useful site for all things pole dancing. One club in London (For Your Eyes Only) used to offer "Diploma" classes on a wednesday evening and only when these were completed to a satisfactory standard would you be allowed to apply for the "advanced" classes on a saturday. There are many other clubs offering lessons in London.

A very interesting site. Must go back and check out what is on there these days.

[TiggsTours]

Nearly. It means that we agree. And reading a thread where people get all luvvy and agree with each other is dull IMHO.
I've been to many Ceroc venues and my observation is that the beginners are the ones who get the coaching from Taxi dancers. I've NEVER seen a Ceroc Taxi dancer take an experienced dancer to one side and help them overcome their bad habits or give them any other coaching for that matter. Maybe they're trying something new at Ashtons:whistle:
Ah, I'd read your post wrong, I thought you'd said that people do not get any individual attention in their first 6 weeks, I've just looked again and you had said after their first 6 weeks. Yes, of course, you're right. That said, have you ever tried to tell an experienced dancer that they have a bad habit? Not many take the criticism too well.

[Magic Hans]

Interesting and extraordinary that you say that. I could see the way he qualified each comment about Ceroc, but I didn't see any of them as contradictions - quite the reverse, actually. I'll just pick one as an example....


Must say, I fully agree. These weren't contractadictions at all from my point of view.

Seems to me to be a case of pre-judging comments based on a liking or disliking of the author.

Since I really quite respect Gus, I would have no defence for this acusation either!!!

:blush:

... looks like I'm a bit late with this response!!! Please feel free to ignore!!!! :whistle:

[TiggsTours]

Must say, I fully agree. These weren't contractadictions at all from my point of view.

Seems to me to be a case of pre-judging comments based on a liking or disliking of the author.

Since I really quite respect Gus, I would have no defence for this acusation either!!!

:blush:
I didn't think it sounded contradictory either, I thought it was a good post. Perhaps we should start yet another spring off thread with a poll as to who thought it was contradictory, and who didn't?

[El Salsero Gringo]

I didn't think it sounded contradictory either, I thought it was a good post. Perhaps we should start yet another spring off thread with a poll as to who thought it was contradictory, and who didn't?"Contradictions" was a poor choice of word. The reason I enjoyed the post so much was because it sounded like Gus was trying very hard to say something nice about Ceroc - and each time he came up with a good point he followed up and contrasted it with something negative.

Key points I heard from that message:

-Ceroc doesn't pay any individual attention to people so they learn bad habits.
-Ceroc is an organisation that has "run-ins" with people - and there are reasons why one should dislike it
-Ceroc squashes independents
-Ceroc does nothing for intermediate dancers

Fair enough if that's what he really thinks - but I thought he was trying to say something positive about Ceroc.

The reason why I found it so funny is because I have a suspicion that he *was* trying to be nice about Ceroc!

[Gus]

But you're right. I shouldn't have said what I said. The contradictions in Gus's post were so obvious that they didn't need a pedant like me to point them out. Anyone with even half a brain could see them for themselves.Methinks by thine own words thou art damned :rolleyes: I dont realy think its appropriate to slag people off because they don't agree with your own definition of the world. After what you wrote I was going to do an 'ESG' on you ... but that seems to be what you get off on so maybe turning the other cheek is a better course of action.

I beleive, and it used to be my main posting style, that the Devils Advocate approach, trying to to see all sides of an argument, gives the best foundation for starting a meaningfull debate. There are some areas where people really do have a split feeling. I can wholeheartedly agree with the piont that good dancers want to dance with better dancers and should be alowed to do so. At the same time, after 6 years as taxi dancer, teacher and coach, I believe its still important for the better dancers to help those who are behind them on the path.

The subject of Ceroc has come up many times. For those who were around during the MJ wars (circa 1990 to 1998) there were many deeds carried out on all sides that maybe are best forgotten. There are also aspects of Ceroc's policy and implementation which I dont think for the best ... but thats life. Ceroc is a large dance organisation that contributes in one way or another to make lives better for nearly everyone on this Forum, hence my support. To be able to express and discuss the complexities of all this is usefull to many, in terms of understanding and making more informed decisions.

To constantly deride such attempts because one has given oneself the Ultimate Right to Intellectual Superiority raises more issues about the psuedo-Tefal brain trying to deride than the commenst being derided. I would suggest that the Derider should have a hard look at why they feel the need to be so negative, maybe with the help of counselling, or find somewhere else to be a pain in the butt.:flower:

[MartinHarper]

The Devils Advocate approach, trying to to see all sides of an argument, gives the best foundation for starting a meaningfull debate.

Could be.


The Derider should have a hard look at why they feel the need to be so negative, maybe with the help of counselling.

Without Deriders, it would be harder for us to see the negative sides of an argument, resulting in a less meaningful debate. The Irredeemably Chirpy play a similar role. Neither need counselling.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Methinks by thine own words thou art damned :rolleyes: I dont realy think its appropriate to slag people off because they don't agree with your own definition of the world. Saying "anyone with half a brain" was obviously a mistake, since even ChrisA didn't see what I meant, and he's nobody's fool. Nonetheless, if you were trying to say anything remotely positive about Ceroc, then I thought your post was stupid. I still think it's stupid. I'm just sorry we've wasted so much time over it.
For those who were around during the MJ wars (circa 1990 to 1998) there were many deeds carried out on all sides that maybe are best forgotten.Good of you to keep raising the subject then. Twice in this thread alone.
To constantly deride such attempts because one has given oneself the Ultimate Right to Intellectual Superiority raises more issues about the psuedo-Tefal brain trying to deride than the commenst being derided. I would suggest that the Derider should have a hard look at why they feel the need to be so negative, maybe with the help of counselling, or find somewhere else to be a pain in the butt.:flower:If I'm such a pain in the butt, please put me on your ignore list.

[mooncalf]

Saying "anyone with half a brain" was obviously a mistake, since even ChrisA didn't see what I meant, and he's nobody's fool. Nonetheless, if you were trying to say anything remotely positive about Ceroc, then I thought your post was stupid. I still think it's stupid. I'm just sorry we've wasted so much time over it. Good of you to keep raising the subject then. Twice in this thread alone. If I'm such a pain in the butt, please put me on your ignore list.

Do we have to argue with this or is someone building a folly?

[stewart38]

Without Deriders, it would be harder for us to see the negative sides of an argument, resulting in a less meaningful debate. The Irredeemably Chirpy play a similar role. Neither need counselling.

Im America if you havent got a councellor your seen as odd (yes a sweeping statement , without merit outside of California)

If people mention it on a Thread it looks painfully rude.

[Gus]

Im America if you havent got a councellor your seen as odd (yes a sweeping statement , without merit outside of California)

If people mention it on a Thread it looks painfully rude.[OFF THREAD]There is still an illogical stigma about people who attend counselling. Many people go for help with physical issues, but few would countenance counselling. Some of the most balanced people I know have been through conselling. I've seen behavioural traits exhibited by a number of people on the Forum that any clinical counselor would probably recommend needs some therapy. If you choose not to, so be it, but please don't deride those that do[/OFFTHREAD]


Without Deriders, it would be harder for us to see the negative sides of an argument, resulting in a less meaningful debate. The Irredeemably Chirpy play a similar role.Top an extent I agree with you. I was trying to use the work 'Derider' to signify someone who simply argues against a viewpoint not on its logic, but from a more personal need to tear down what someone else may think just to cause hurt. As a fair few people have pointed out this appears to be ESG's modus operandi. I have resisted the temptation of putting him on the ignore list because I find an odd satisfaction of seeing him make an ass of himself. Shame, because apparently he's not such a pratt in the real world.

[stewart38]

[OFF THREAD]There is still an illogical stigma about people who attend counselling. Many people go for help with physical issues, but few would countenance counselling. Some of the most balanced people I know have been through conselling. I've seen behavioural traits exhibited by a number of people on the Forum that any clinical counselor would probably recommend needs some therapy. If you choose not to, so be it, but please don't deride those that do[/OFFTHREAD]



Jumps up and down on chair

why is the whole world against me ?

Bradshaw of course thought that all American familiy units we dis functional to some extent but going way off thread.

[TiggsTours]

[OFF THREAD]There is still an illogical stigma about people who attend counselling. Many people go for help with physical issues, but few would countenance counselling. Some of the most balanced people I know have been through conselling. I've seen behavioural traits exhibited by a number of people on the Forum that any clinical counselor would probably recommend needs some therapy. If you choose not to, so be it, but please don't deride those that do[/OFFTHREAD]

:yeah:

I think that the people in this world who need counselling more than anyone are the the people who swear blind they don't need it!

I did a course a little while ago, similar to NLP, as some of you know, and I wouldn't ever say that all my baggage is gone, I don't believe it ever could be. Everyone gathers baggage as they move through life, its unavoidable, but I'm far better adjusted now, far more in control of my life, far calmer. I even like my baggage now, I've learnt to carry it in a far more productive fashion.

Before I went along on the course, I was one of those people who swore blind I didn't need it, and went along to prove I didn't!

[El Salsero Gringo]

Shame, because apparently he's not such a pratt in the real world.That's prat, with one 't'.

[Gus]

I have resisted the temptation of putting him on the ignore list because I find an odd satisfaction of seeing him make an ass of himself. Shame, because apparently he's not such a pratt in the real world.Ugg .... think the caffine is wearing off and just re-read this post. SORRY! Typical, I've spent the last two days ranting on about respecting each oethers views then I start name calling. :blush: :blush:

Apologies all round. Whatever the background, getting personal doesn't help the situation. I think that Chris A, Dave and others have already made the points well enough .... further picking over the bones is unnecessary...[Exits debate stage left]