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View Full Version : Camber: the good, the bad and the ugly.



David Bailey
14th-November-2005, 12:31 PM
OK, seeing as no-one else has kicked this off, I'll take the plunge.

The Good:

Lovely midday dances - for some reason, I really got into them this time.
Great weather; after all this whinging I was expecting Arctic conditions, but the days were pleasantly mild
Lovely dances with lots of people, of course
Nice meals out :)
Easy to get to on Friday night, and short check-in queue - although I heard that people had nightmare queues earlier in the day.
I liked the dancing on Friday and Saturday nights
Two rooms meant that I could escape weirdo fast-swing / depressing pop music (as appropriate) and usually find something I wanted to dance to. But a Latin room would have been even nicer.


The Bad:

Bloody bonfire traffic and bloody serious traffic accident on Sat night meant it took me well over two hours to get from Rye to Camber. Grrr....
Very uneven numbers - way too many women (or too few men!), meant that most men couldn't stand still without being grabbed for a dance.
For some reason I just wsn't inspired by the class descriptions. Also, most of the ones I did want to do (e.g. Jango, Rumba, etc.) were on at ungodly hours like 10am on Sunday morning, which clearly was never going to happen for me.
Shame the onsite parking was limited, but it was easy to park on the road outside.
I just could not find my way around, I kept on getting lost going back to my chalet.
I thought the floors were a little bit slow for my tastes, so I was cautious doing spins etc.


The ugly:

Me at 5am on Sunday morning...

tsh
14th-November-2005, 02:50 PM
The Good:

Being able to escape from the hordes of ladies upstairs by hiding in the blues room.
The classes - I think I got something from all of them, excelent teaching all round.
Being asked to dance all the time, (even for Mickys class!) - and more than once by some excelent dancers!

The Bad:

The pressure of dancing downstairs. Apologies to anyone I tried to dance Lindy with...
Not being able to dance blues.
The need to sleep, and very tired right arm from doing lifts!
Too crowded upstairs, Too much uninspiring pop music, and the cabaret was for me a waste of prime dancing time.

Sean

Cruella
14th-November-2005, 03:03 PM
The Good.
All the dances i had on saturday night.:clap:
The coolness of the venues compared to the last time i was there 3 years ago.
The chalets and venues have been refurbished since then too.
The friends i don't see very often and a few i hadn't seen for a couple of years! Nice surprise!:flower:

The Bad.
Too much swing played in the blues room especially for the last hour or so.:tears:
Not getting to dance with everyone i wanted to.:(
Having to go home after just one nights dancing and less than an hours kip!

The Ugly
The heavy breathing i had in my ear from a stranger that held me a tad too close.:eek:
A certain photo opportunity!

stewart38
14th-November-2005, 03:22 PM
The Good

Some excellent dance music up stairs.

Also pleasing to see the top 30 played upstairs at lunch time went down a storm. With 400 odd who turned up to dance (cf about 40 dancing in swing blues room downstairs .:whistle: )

Some excellent dancers, particulary upstairs and some lovely dances with many down stairs particulary with one lovely lady :blush:

Mikey strickly sinful class ,fixed partners with what 400 + people I think should now silence all critics regarding demand for a class like that

Thought the New Zealand Mario dance in the caberet was excellent and duration 25 mins for cabaret just right

Got home in under 2hrs just north of M25, took 5 hrs last time :)

The bad

Queue 1 hr 20 mins to get in (arrived 4pm). Give Franco his due he did apologies for this fiasco on saturday night !!:mad:

swings and blues music , far far too many fast tracks, slow it down :mad: It just doesnt have that Southport feel

Neutral

A bit too crowded upstairs for a few hrs saturday night but overall ok

Maybe too many extra women but didnt think as bad as May. Although some classes lots of extra women (Amir etc who needs a new pair of trousers showing his red pants !)

Air conditioning units were less powerful, was times when both rooms got hot but wasnt aware of it all the time

Will post pics soon

El Salsero Gringo
14th-November-2005, 03:33 PM
Will post pics soonNow you *are* going to ask permission first, aren't you Stu? We don't want any more tantrums...

clevedonboy
14th-November-2005, 03:37 PM
Mikey strickly sinful class ,fixed partners with what 400 + people I think should now silence all critics regarding demand for a class like that



I don't think there are people who deny the demand for classes like that (I've been to his latin passion workshop) - I think the question Mr M asks is subtly different. Popularity should not be mistaken for any indication of anything apart from people wanting to do something. After all 70000+ people turned up to the Millenium Stadium on Friday to watch the dreadful spectacle of Wales "Trouncing" Fiji 11-10 :tears:

Glad you had a good weekend though

stewart38
14th-November-2005, 03:46 PM
Now you *are* going to ask permission first, aren't you Stu? We don't want any more tantrums...


Of course :whistle:

god is that the time 2.46pm, i really should be in bed !!

dee
14th-November-2005, 03:51 PM
The good:

Meeting so many more forumites, and having the pleasure of dancing with some of them. :clap:
Joining in on Witty's birthday celebration :cheers:
It is always nice to have two rooms to dance in, i must of lost a few pounds running up and down those stairs trying to find the right music and people to dance with. So nice to have so many nice male dancers to dance with :clap:
Watching Silverfox do his wiggle :drool:

Bad points:

Not being able to make the workshops i wanted to go to as they, like DJ says, were too early :tears: 10am on a sunday after getting in at 6.30am really is not my thing

Getting stuck in LOTS of traffic on the M20 as a lorry had over turned and they had to shut the motorway :mad::mad: it took hours to get home.

Not being there now :tears:

Katie
14th-November-2005, 03:51 PM
I just could not find my way around, I kept on getting lost going back to my chalet.
[/list]
:yeah: I'm glad I wasn't the only one!

Camber was excellent; plenty of good dancing, chit-chat and relaxation. A special mention to Greg for playing a great set last night in the blues and swing room :clap: and for playing some lush latin tracks over the weekend. I agree that too much swing was played for my liking, however, it did give me an opportunity to watch some great dancing, especially Mr and Mrs Under Par - you had some great moves! :clap:

David Bailey
14th-November-2005, 03:55 PM
Ooh, talking of pics... can you spot which one is the Boy chalet and which one is the Girl chalet? :innocent:

Msfab
14th-November-2005, 04:06 PM
Ooh, talking of pics... can you spot which one is the Boy chalet and which one is the Girl chalet? :innocent:

The one on the right (on screen) is the Girls chalet of course!:whistle:

David Bailey
14th-November-2005, 04:13 PM
Getting stuck in LOTS of traffic on the M20 as a lorry had over turned and they had to shut the motorway :mad::mad: it took hours to get home.
Yeah, me too - and of course my first alternative route (as suggested by lovely TomTom :worthy: ) of the A20 was the main diversion route, so that was chocka.

I eventually went over to the M2, only to immediately find roadworks there :mad: - took me 3 hours to travel 90 miles :rolleyes:

After this and Southport, I've come to the conclusion that it's insane to try travelling a long distance anywhere in this country on a Sunday afternoon.

WittyBird
14th-November-2005, 05:13 PM
The Good

Excellent music
Amazing dances
Meeting some of the lovely forumites :worthy:
Strictly sinful class :rofl: :blush: so much fun
Superb Italian restaurant in Rye and quaint little village
Watching DaveHancock dancing with PaulW and Trampy with PaulF truly inspiring :clap:


The Bad

80 minutes to check in.
Restaurant onsite :sick:
1 boot walking off never to be seen again :tears:
Classes clashing, too early & room organisation
So many men so little time :whistle:
Coming home

My first weekender wasn't disappointed can't wait for the next one :cheers:

Russell Saxby
14th-November-2005, 05:24 PM
The Good

-All those fab dances :worthy:
-Getting home to find the Born to Run 30th Anniversary Edition box set waiting for me.

The Bad

- my back giving me gip most of the weekend :( otherside there would have been even more fab dances.

and the damn strange.....

a certain young lady, early Monday morning, insisting I spread them :what: , as she then proceeded to go bum first between my legs and ended up sprawled on the floor behind me - at least I think that is wot occured :eek: VINCE YOU OWE ME BIG TIME

SilverFox
14th-November-2005, 05:36 PM
and the damn strange.....

a certain young lady, early Monday morning, insisting I spread them :what: , as she then proceeded to go bum first between my legs and ended up sprawled on the floor behind me - at least I think that is wot occured :eek: VINCE YOU OWE ME BIG TIMEServes you right for asking for a J2O. :sick:

Yes folks, you heard it here first. Russell Saxby ordered a J2O. :eek: :eek: :eek:

doc martin
14th-November-2005, 05:59 PM
Serves you right for asking for a J2O. :sick:

Yes folks, you heard it here first. Russell Saxby ordered a J2O. :eek: :eek: :eek:
I really, really wish I knew what you were talking about there. I tried turning the monitor upside down. Nope, makes no more sense. Squinting ditto.

You have to tell me, I can't bear not knowing.

LMC
14th-November-2005, 06:03 PM
J2O: Non-alcoholic sugar-based drink with nodding acquaintance with one or more fruits. Expensive squash, basically. Obviously only for southern wusses like me, I quite like the apple & raspberry one

Paul F
14th-November-2005, 06:11 PM
Right, my "no-holds barred" account of Camber.

Southport is better.

Dont get me wrong, Camber was good but Southport was mouth-wateringly good.

Good and bad points below but for now the main reason behind my unassailable logic is Southports blues room. A dedicated room with intimate atmosphere where blues are played all day ......:drool:
:worthy: to the DJs for the tea room dancing though which was good in the main but, to be honest, the carpet took its toll after a while. I didnt get in there that much as a result (and being so bloody tired) but most of the music I did hear was great. Bobs set on the Sunday was brilliant :worthy: among others.



Good Points
Accommodation was surprisingly clean and fresh - no complaints there

Some of the sets in the blues room were sublime. Greg and Nelsons sets stand out from last night (Sunday) but there were many others. Just cant remember them all. Agree about keeping all the music slow late on. Didnt really get into the main room except for a couple of hours on the saturday early evening. Just usual stuff at this time.

Dancers - As usual many great dancers there. Had some fabby dances every night - especially with Trampy :cheers: Top bloke :worthy:

Bed - My inflatable..........bed :) worked a treat. Really comfy and much wider than those 2 foot prison beds in the rooms :clap:


Bad Points
Parking :mad: :mad: We ended up having to park off the main road up some residential street. We were not allowed onto the site even to unload the car so ended up having to lug everything in 3 journeys :angry:
I also heard reports of groups of people vandalising cars parked on the surrounding roads. Although I cant verify those comments I would not be surprised. If I were living there I would be pretty annoyed too with all the parked cars. Think Ceroc have made a mistake choosing Camber. When you look at the huge amount of parking at Southport and then look at Camber it really does seem like Camber got the short end of the stick!

Flooring - The temporary flooring wasnt good for me but then again I like FAST floors.

Heat - I walked into the blues room on the Friday night to be confronted with the hottest venue I have ever been to. Surely there must be some legal guideline on this. I went straight to the bar and started sweating just waiting to be served!! :mad: Saturday was better but then again we only got there at 1:30ish.

Afternoon freestyle - Although I am very grateful for being given the opportunity to dance in the afternoon I would still have like a better floor/room. Beggars cant be choosers I suppose but its still something I would have liked.



All in all a good weekend with some great dances but Southport really did do it for me. Hope to go back to Camber though if Franco will still let me after this :)

Cruella
14th-November-2005, 06:28 PM
I really, really wish I knew what you were talking about there. I tried turning the monitor upside down. Nope, makes no more sense. Squinting ditto.

You have to tell me, I can't bear not knowing.
Don't stress about it, i'm sure it probably won't make any sense unless you were present, one of those 'had to be there moments'

fletch
14th-November-2005, 06:31 PM
The Good

meeting mad mad witty bird
getting up close and personal with Silver fox (it meant I could dry my sweaty back on his 't' shirt):blush:
lovely chats with Stewart 38
laughing so much
orgasmic dance with Mark mmmmmmmmmmmmm:whistle:
getting to know so many more of you guys
dancing with Chef (fab):clap:

The Bad

Blisters
missing the last hour this morning :sad:
6 hour drive home (but worth it)
finding out on the last day we were only 2 mins from reception (we kept getting lost)

Bad or Good?

Mr Cool tipping me upside down and treating me like a carton of shack and vac
(think he was trying to get me out of my top):rofl:

Lynn
14th-November-2005, 06:53 PM
OK, probably won't think of everything as I had an hours sleep last night (about 3 the night before) and had to go almost straight from the airport to my class at 3pm (got 10 mins in the house en route! :grin: )...

The Good
The chalets weren't cold, in fact they were quite cosy (though I did bring a sleeping bag to throw over the duvet).

Meeting some more forumites that I hadn't met before :clap: and having some lovely dances :drool:

Getting new shoes (I know, more :whistle: ) - I was really torn about buying them as I can't really afford them, but I knew I couldn't get them in NI and if I ordered them somewhere there would be P&P to pay as well... they are really comfortable, exactly what I wanted and I love them!:clap:

My lovely chalet mates! :hug: :flower:

Minnie's pasta with salmon on Saturday night - perfect predancing food :drool: (I think I had 3 helpings :blush: )

Getting 'into' the dancing much quicker than I have at a weekender before, owing to having last danced only a few weeks earlier at the BFG.


The Bad
The carpeted floor in the tea room. :( There was some lovely music in there but my spins (not good at the best of times, but I'm working on that!) were so slow! It was still nice to have a day time dancing option.

The overly swingy music downstairs on Sun night/Mon morning. I kept going up and down the stairs looking for a few slower tracks, I simply didn't have the energy at that stage of the weekend to dance track after track of either fast pop or swing. I almost went to bed early :really: - fortunately was persuaded to stay up and had some lovely dances later on.

Not getting a salsa dance with Viktor - I was just never quick enough!



All in all I had a great weekend, really enjoyed myself and have some useful personal goals in my dancing to work on, so hopefully there will be some improvement by the next weekender!

Mr Cool
14th-November-2005, 07:13 PM
Bad or Good?

Mr Cool tipping me upside down and treating me like a carton of shack and vac
(think he was trying to get me out of my top):rofl:[/QUOTE]

Thats a lie you know Im shy and very sweet.
You forced me till me do it :wink: :wink:

:waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

wicked blue
14th-November-2005, 07:28 PM
The good

All the great dances with all the forumites, as well as non - forumites :clap:

All the laughs over the whole weekend

WCS 'cool moves' class with paul and cat :worthy: a taxing one but great fun.

Some great tracks in the blues room

The bad

At times the music upstairs was dreadful :eek: Friday night i spent alot of time up and down the stairs!

The floor on the small dance floor upstairs...lumpy and bumpy!!

The cabaret :confused: am i the only one?


The ugly

Being presented with a guy's arse doing a moonie!!!! :sick:

Michelle<3
14th-November-2005, 07:46 PM
The Good

Excellent classes (as usual) particularly by my favourites Mikey, Amir and my regular instructors Nicky and Jim!!

Thoroughly enjoyable dances with people I have never danced with before, other "regulars" from dance weekenders and Mikey of course whose stamina to be able to dance virtually continuously for so many hours is awesome:kiss:

Marianne - what an entertainer (and I am saying this from a female point of view), obviously for the guys it must be a dream.

The Bad

No space on the dance floors on Friday and Saturday nights until about 2.00 am. I sleep during the earlier parts of the evening to try and avoid the knocks and bruises but it seems that even getting up at midnight is still too early!!

Not being able to use the cooker and the shower at the same time - there were only 3 of us but I can't imagine how larger chalet groups manage.

My friend Don's breakfasts and forgetting to drink enough water, resulting in my not fitting in the planned dress for Saturday night and therefore having to do washing.

The Ugly

It's over (but at least it won't be too long until Bognor):clap:

And a further category - The Funny:rofl:

Spending over 20 minutes fumbling in the dark on Friday night trying to get the electricity working as there was nothing whatsoever on the meter - in the end I discovered by using light from my mobile that the card I was inserting was a dud one.

The guys spinning in the icebreaker for Mikey's right handed archie variations and, bless him, the poor guy next to me who spun himself to the floor!!

Kev F
14th-November-2005, 07:52 PM
An Important Note To All.

Lory in unable to post immediately as her daughter,Holly, has been involved in a serious car accident over the weekend. Holly is doing well and has now returned from hospital. We all wish her a speedy recovery. :hug: :flower:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I shall try and incorporate some of her sentiments I know about on the weekend until she has time to post herself.

The Good



The chalets were of a much higher standard at the front end of the camp than previous years.


They had attempted to incoporate an afternoon tea dance room and the music was fab. (thanks to Bob for the cha-cha's:clap: ) And although the floor was carpet it still provided good dance space.

Lory was grateful to all the forum men who made a special effort to dance with the forum girls, especially under par, as the ratio of men to women was excessive.

My personal thanks to all the forum girls for the quality dances :worthy: :hug:


Seeing the excitement on Wittybirds face at the joy of her first weekender.


The weather was fab especially the star gazing on route back to bed.


The Bad


The excessive number of people at the event. I have never seen it so busy in previous visits and by the number of cars parked in the street I would say there were at least another 200-300 people extra.

The excessive amount of women to men ratio forcing women to endure the humiliation of fighting for a dance.

The one hour queue to check in.


Only found out there was a tea dance room by accident.Don't know why they didn't advertise it.


Music had been better on previous years in the blues room. A lttle too much swing this year and needed to mellow earlier.


The temporary interlocking floors appeared to be causing a trip hazard to many ladies. IMO the chipboard floors used previously were better and faster.

The Ugly.


Me....when I looked in the mirror after three hard nights of dancing.:tears:

stewart38
14th-November-2005, 08:07 PM
Some shots of people caught off guard !!

Under Par and Jon L. Under Par is in orange shirt and of course is kneeling, in case people worry re the height differential and UP had shrunk or Jon L grown.

You have Lyn and claireS , Lyn with the mauve top . I think thats the Pars on the left maintaing animity. Such lovely smiles and I only had to pay £5 to each of them. Both flew in :yeah:

Gill (Norwich) with Ian. Saw them together a few times :whistle: , it was nice to catch them of guard

Sylph , caught totally unawares directing traffic (it did get busy down there)

A famous trio who Im afriad I need help on re their forum names

stewart38
14th-November-2005, 08:41 PM
You have Dee once again groping Witty Bird. These shots are always welcome :grin:

Later on Dee ,went looking down my trousers for something she lost ? :blush: It was dark down there in that corner

Witty bird and the 'hair' and the white door (respect to that white door which often doesnt get a mention but as far as im aware has been there at every camber and always keeps a 'straight face').

Why WB put her finger in that live kettle socket :sick:

Seriously lovely hair . Im amazed sometimes about the effort women put in to looking lovely (particulary saturday night) and the total lack of effort by some men. Isnt it worth waiting for 3hrs for the ladies , 2 mins for the men with their Black Maiden Tee shirt and jeans (not forum member I dont think :mad: )

Big hug for all the ladies on saturday :worthy: :flower:

The "awsome foursome" looking just that with some ugly bloke in the middle . These girls also did multiple dress changes.:worthy:

Fletch is wearing the light blue dress, the others are silent members or non members but hey they look great !

For those who want to see whats under that blue dress it was a black dress !

Stewart38 is trying to locate his watch (life style change my arse !). No serioulsy thanks for the 'chat' Fletch :whistle:

Thanks lesley for your advice to, Im going to do that

under par
14th-November-2005, 08:49 PM
Some shots of people caught off guard !!

A famous trio who Im afriad I need help on re their forum names


part of the trio is Just Wiggle and Wicked Blue... not sure the third person

Russell Saxby
14th-November-2005, 08:53 PM
part of the trio is Just Wiggle and Wicked Blue... not sure the third person

perhaps the elusive mooncalf????

Swinging bee
14th-November-2005, 09:05 PM
Just to say, we both had a super time at Camber this weekend meeting everyone.
Mrs Swinging Bee says thank you to the chaps for the best dances she’s ever had anywhere, and I would like to say thank you to the lovely ladies who I also had the pleasure of dancing with over the weekend. We’re looking forward to seeing you all again soon.
J & L:clap:

Lynn
14th-November-2005, 09:17 PM
The Ugly... the big bruise on my knee :tears:
(I managed to fall over in the chalet on Sat night (no, I wasn't drinking!), hitting my knee and putting my right arm out to break my fall - so my knee, right arm and shoulder have been sore since. I didn't notice too much when I was dancing - I did have a support bandage ready in case it got worse.)

Missy D
14th-November-2005, 11:53 PM
I had such a great time at Camber! Me, Witty and Dee had a great time lowering the tone:rofl: Poor Silverfox went through hell with me and Dee being rude:rofl: Sorry Foxy:blush: And Minnie i am still laughing about the double ds and your triple Fs:rofl:

Thank you to all the men I had on the dancefloor and a big :angry: to the forumite that refused me and said he was too tired yet i spotted him dancing til 5.30 am. I wont name and shame him as I am far too nice.

Ooh and I had a lovely dance with Viktor (Dancing Teeth) and it was him that asked me:worthy: :drool: oh and he asked me to help him out with a private lesson so I nearly had him all to myself:drool:

Went on the beach saturday afternoon - what a glorious day.




The bad things

The dancefloor was sticky.
The massive bruise on my arm from a woman swinging her arm out.
The classes i wanted to do were on too early.


I am already booking for May with Dee anyone else want to share with us?:rofl:

WittyBird
15th-November-2005, 01:45 AM
Witty bird and the 'hair' and the white door (respect to that white door which often doesnt get a mention but as far as im aware has been there at every camber and always keeps a 'straight face').

Why WB put her finger in that live kettle socket :sick:

Seriously lovely hair .

OMG - it looks awful on that picture
Stewart38 - have you thought about maybe taking a photography course?
maybe a short one called point and shoot perhaps? anymore like that and I will be pointing and shooting something but it wont be a camera :eek:

MartinHarper
15th-November-2005, 11:34 AM
OMG - it looks awful on that picture

I think it brings out the demonic possession in your eyes.

David Bailey
15th-November-2005, 12:32 PM
I think it brings out the demonic possession in your eyes.
Yeah, funny how when you and Dee are together, you've got the red eye and she hasn't... :whistle:

I'm amazed that Stewart38's still alive and kicking, by the way - nice restraint there :rofl:

Lynn
15th-November-2005, 12:45 PM
OK. after over 10 hours sleep last night I am a bit more awake this morning...

More good... I have discovered a few things that I need to correct in my dancing. I'm not discouraged, as all feedback is useful and means I can improve. Of course now I want to dance more to think about what I am doing and try to correct it! (I discovered this on Sun afternoon but on Sun night I mainly wanted to get into the music and enjoy myself and not start analysing my dancing).

Also good - I know I wasn't up in the main room dancing that much, and on Sun night/Mon morning when I wanted more chilled music it seemed to be too much pop for me, but I did have some lovely dances up there to really nice tracks.:flower:

WittyBird
15th-November-2005, 12:50 PM
I think it brings out the demonic possession in your eyes.

Excellent I have been trying to create that look for some time. I am glad you noticed:cheers:

under par
15th-November-2005, 01:31 PM
The good.

The company in the chalet Mrs Par Sheepman and Sylph we did have a laugh.:rofl:

Our SCD soiree, we invited loads over to have a drink and watch SCD on Saturday but for got to ask them to bring glasses. Many where using cups and mugs to drink their chardonnay. !4 people in there at one stage. :cheers:

The chalet.. quite reasonable and luckily close to the venue and directly under the massuers apartments.

3 wonderful masages to get rid of the aches and pains..still excellent value at £13 a session.:yeah:

The music downstairs most of the time(see the Ugly) big thumbs up to Nelson Sheepy and Tramp and Swinging Bee for their sets downstairs:worthy:

The Tea room ....so many wonderful dances in there in the afternoon..music sets from Roger Sheepy and Swinging Bee excellent.:worthy: :worthy:
Bar downstairs... open really late very little queueing and plenty of free water available (even if some of us preferred to put it all over the floor net to the bar:angry: )and was not too expensive.


The improved air con on Sat and Sun downstairs.:yeah: :yeah: only 10 shirts a night, definite improvement.


All the wonderful dances with so, so many lovely ladies.:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:



The bad


The massive queue at 5 pm Friday to have chalet allocated.:devil:
Its not as if Franco doesn't know lots of people are coming 'cos he's taken the bookings and the money.. a public relations disaster! get more people in to meet and greet the weary travellers PLEASE!

The heat in the downstairs on Friday was terrible so hot I used up 14 shirts & 3 pairs trousers.....nasty.


The carpeted floor in the Tea room. great idea to provide an area where those who do not want to do lessons can freestyle but carpet:angry: ......had to quickly learn how to dance with out spinning the ladies.


The number of extra ladies was awful. Upstairs I hated seeing so many expectant eyes at the edge of the dance floor. I really feel sorry for the people who have to sit out or stand out at the side organisers must stop taking their money if they can't provide enough leaders to keep everyone dancing(UTOPIA!!)

I usually dance almost every track (see the Ugly) but even I found it difficult at times with the heat to get time to towell down and change shirts

Not enough latin!! therei s room for a little latin even in a blues room

THE UGLY

TOO MUCH FAST SWING downstairs especially on Sunday night when Paul Amos was deejaying and there was just not variety just swing swing and more fast swing.

There was always more persons watching Pauls set than dancing which contrasted with the other sets.

I sat out almost an hour(unheard of previously) as the set was really uninspiring.

I know everyone has differing opinions about music, this is mine.:flower:

stewart38
15th-November-2005, 01:48 PM
The bad


The massive queue at 5 pm Friday to have chalet allocated.:devil:
Its not as if Franco doesn't know lots of people are coming 'cos he's taken the bookings and the money.. a public relations disaster! get more people in to meet and greet the weary travellers PLEASE!



The number of extra ladies was awful. Upstairs I hated seeing so many expectant eyes at the edge of the dance floor. I really feel sorry for the people who have to sit out or stand out at the side organisers must stop taking their money if they can't provide enough leaders to keep everyone dancing(UTOPIA!!)

:

Franco did apologise for that publically but there is no need to check everyone in via a lap top ! I hope it doesnt happen again

Yes there were extra women but i didnt think it was as bad as May, I manage many times to get off the dance floor before being asked again. :whistle:

The point here of course if you stop women booking (as they have at STORM for March event) they may miss out of cheap offers and of course all book early to avoid missing out and then have to wait for the men to catch up !

I think you will find women who ask or went with /know lots of Males dont have a problem ? I maybe wrong.

Clearly in balances have to be addressed. At Amir class he was only moving 5 women around at a time . A women could easily be standing out for ages (40/50 extra women split evenly at both ends so 25 in each queue at 5 moving on at a time)

ps The double trouble class I felt was much better this time. Maybe best to have that upstairs though.

Also maybe i was lucky but overall i thought the dance standard was the highest Ive seen , im preparing for a big downer when i go back to my local :sad:

Paul F
15th-November-2005, 01:51 PM
There was always more persons watching Pauls set than dancing which contrasted with the other sets.

I sat out almost an hour(unheard of previously) as the set was really uninspiring.

I know everyone has differing opinions about music, this is mine.:flower:

Unfortunately, in this instance, I have to agree about Pauls sets. I believe he did a set in the tearoom which I found to be totally awful given that most of the tracks were mainstream tracks eg. Supermen lovers - Starlight.
His sets in the blues room were also terrible for me with the constant fast swing. I cant comment on his usual music wherever he DJ's but I wont be looking to catch his music again.

IMO hot rooms and fast swing does not mix. By all means play fast swing but lets get the organisers catering for this by shelling out £'s to cool the place down.

Sheepman
15th-November-2005, 01:59 PM
The Good.
Arriving soon after 6pm Friday and walking straight up to the check in desk!

It's hard to see how the company could have been better. UP, you are quite mad, but I already knew that! Lucky we had our own (mad) psychologist on tap. And chilling most of Saturday with Mr & Mrs UP, Sylph, Katie, and not forgetting a brief appearance from Winnie. :whistle:

All my partners smiling through our dances, even though I was mostly too tired to be of much use. And several dreamy dances where I momentarily got it together.

The great weather and autumn colours, especially on the very swift journey home.

The Bad
Lack of sleep.

The 1 & a half hours to do the first 10 miles of the journey on Friday afternoon.

Lack of sleep.

The cabaret was a curiosity, and interesting, but didn't do it for me, I wish I'd got an extra 1/2 hour's sleep.

Lack of sleep.

Being complained at on Sunday night for not playing enough fast swing, when half the floor was full of westies, and when the track I had lined up was my fastest of any of the sets I played.

Lack of sleep.

Not having a slot that was programmed as "smooth blues" so having to go faster than I wanted.

Lack of sleep.

Not dancing enough with new or old faces.

Lack of sleep.

Discovering the shoes I bought in Southport were £25 cheaper here. :angry:

Lack of sleep.

The Ugly
The mirror! :eek:

What Nigel did to me when I'd satisifed him with a couple of slow tracks! :wink: :eek:

Greg zzzzzzzzzz

Cruella
15th-November-2005, 02:02 PM
I was only there for the saturday night and was very disappointed with all the swing played in the blues room, was looking forward to finishing off the fantastic night with some slow lush dances.:tears:

bobgadjet
15th-November-2005, 02:06 PM
THE GOOD
Being there :yeah:
Janet being there :drool: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:
Janet learning a bit more WCS basics :clap:
Both of us meeting more forumites :cheers: but never remembering any more names :whistle:
Well done Minnie for the name plates :hug:
Playing the Tea room :drool: I've suggested it be "The DJ's room" next time, especially if it has a dance floor.
Getting my smashed rear screen changed on Saturday without any hastle (long story)
As usual seeing so many gorgeous ladies making so much effort on their appearance..... EVERY night. :wink: :flower: I don't know how you do it.

THE BAD
Doing my foot in on FRIDAY night, dancing with the wrong shoes because I could not wait to get dancing :angry: Spoilt the whole of MY dancing for the rest of the w/e.

THE UGLY
Too much light after the cabaret. I thought the filming should have been done BEFORE the cabaret, and after go straight into dancing with lower lighting.

OVERALL
Apart from the queing that I heard about, and Franco apologised for:worthy: , I thought it was a brilliant time.
Maybe somebody should think about coaches, or maybe minibusses for next time. I think it only needs about a 10% overall reduction in cars and that will make all the difference.

David Bailey
15th-November-2005, 02:07 PM
The number of extra ladies was awful. Upstairs I hated seeing so many expectant eyes at the edge of the dance floor. I really feel sorry for the people who have to sit out or stand out at the side organisers must stop taking their money if they can't provide enough leaders to keep everyone dancing
I totally agree.

Whilst it might be seen as paradise for men if there are loads of extra women - it isn't. You don't get a chance to rest, you don't get a chance to choose your partners, and you know you're just being asked to dance because you're a free man, rather than being someone who would be nice to dance with.

And it must be depressing knowing you have to hang around the edges waiting for a dance.


Not enough latin!! therei s room for a little latin even in a blues room
Mr UP, I salute you :clap: - exactly my view.

Although admittedly I wasn't happy with the amount of Latin in the Latin room at Southport - I may be biased...


Yes there were extra women but i didnt think it was as bad as May,
:eek: That's scary...


The point here of course if you stop women booking (as they have at STORM for March event) they may miss out of cheap offers and of course all book early to avoid missing out and then have to wait for the men to catch up !
True - but at least when they get there, they'll know they get a chance to dance.


Also maybe i was lucky but overall i thought the dance standard was the highest Ive seen , im preparing for a big downer when i go back to my local :sad:
I thought the standard at Southport was definitely higher. But yes, my local was a bit of a culture shock last night :(

spindr
15th-November-2005, 02:26 PM
Had fun -- pretty much sums it up.

"The queue" was annoying -- but just ended up chatting -- so no huge problem , but it does need fixing.

Danced fast to the fast music -- danced slow to the slow music -- and sometimes vice versa. Didn't have any terrible problem. Some strange tracks -- but always fun to try and dance to something different.

Heat was reasonable -- though had to lose the suit jacket and tie at 3am on Saturday -- so it must have been a trifle on the warm side :)

Managed to discover another tanguera -- it's the lapis that does it.

The NZ maori dancing was interesting -- definitely liked the poi routine -- about the only problem was the large number of inconsiderate people who decided to show their appreciation by starting up loud conversations half-way though :(

Hmmm, back to work -- oh, and the ironing :(
SpinDr

tsh
15th-November-2005, 02:28 PM
THE UGLY
Too much light after the cabaret. I thought the filming should have been done BEFORE the cabaret, and after go straight into dancing with lower lighting.


Does anyone actually buy the DVD to see a 5 sec. clip of themselves dancing? This slot should have been at 9am or after the last class, if it's needed at all.

I found the 'buy the DVD' speaches after every class a little condescending as well. Do they think we didn't notice the fliers or the advert on the screen on Sunday night??? Credit us with a little intelligence, please!

Sean

alex
15th-November-2005, 02:32 PM
i wasnt there, so could someone clear up a couple of things for me.


all the swing played in the blues roomit always used to be a 'swing and blues room'. has the name changed now, even if the music hasnt?


The cabaret was a curiosity, and interesting, but didn't do it for mewho was doing the cabaret? most of the people id want to see in a cabaret were in bristol

alex

Lynn
15th-November-2005, 02:53 PM
Our SCD soiree, we invited loads over to have a drink and watch SCD on Saturday but for got to ask them to bring glasses. Many where using cups and mugs to drink their chardonnay. 14 people in there at one stage. :cheers: It was so nice to watch the programme with other dancers, and who cares if the wine is in a mug!

The number of extra ladies was awful. Upstairs I hated seeing so many expectant eyes at the edge of the dance floor. I really feel sorry for the people who have to sit out or stand out at the side organisers must stop taking their money if they can't provide enough leaders to keep everyone dancing(UTOPIA!!) I was worried about this in advance as I'm shy about asking. I thought I would have to change in order to dance and esp at the start of weekenders I don't feel that confident. But as it turned out I didn't at any point feel that I wasn't dancing enough. I did ask sometimes (and I was going to ask Viktor but I'm not skilled enough at the dance partner hunt, I had no chance against the experts!) and I found that if I stood at the edge upstairs looking like I wanted to dance (not standing looking dejected because I wasn't dancing) I tended to get asked by strangers. But I have to say a big thanks to all the forumite men who asked me for dances, both upstairs and downstairs. :hug:

TOO MUCH FAST SWING downstairs especially on Sunday night when Paul Amos was deejaying and there was just not variety just swing swing and more fast swing.Glad I wasn't the only one. I really didn't want fast music at that stage of the weekend. I wouldn't have minded if every few tracks there was a slower one. I kept going upstairs and seemed to keep hitting fast pop up there. If I had known, I could have gone back to the chalet for a couple of hours rest. I know we have DJ lists, maybe we need to also have DJ styles beside it - eg all swing, or swing and blues mix etc?

Dave Hancock
15th-November-2005, 02:57 PM
Thought I'd add in my tuppence worth, overall I thought it was an excellent weekender and I had a pretty great time, didn't do any classes apart from a little WCS so can't comment on them. Also would agree with the checking in shambles.

However there were a lot of positives, I really really enjoyed the caberet although would admit it was an unusual choice at a MJ weekender, it was certainly different!

Also while I'd agree with some of the comments regarding the amount of swing in the blues room, I'd have to admit that it was billed as a blues and swing room so we can't really complain. There were some tremendous sets also played. I really enjoyed Greg's sets and think he's pushing DD as my favourite DJ, he played some seriously wicked tunes. Also I'd never really come across bobgadjet before and I had some fun with a lot of the stuff he played especially the afternoon slots. In addition I enjoyed Steve Lampert's sets as much as I have in a long time and hope he's on such fine form this coming Sunday (although if he was to add a lit Marvin Gaye to his collection then it'd be even better!!!!).

Also big thanks to all the lovely ladies who give me a boogie over, I enjoyed them all over the weekend, without naming them all in a totally lovey dovey manner, it was especially nice to meet both Wittybird and MSFab (think she said this was her sign on name), Rebecca you've a heap of potential and I enjoyed all the dances, as with MSFab (why did you leave 4 dances before the end?? - the tango'ish one we danced to was one of my favourites of the weekend!).

Also a special thanks to MinnieM for all the introductions, the fabby dances (expecially the WCS on Sunday night), and for making me dance with Paul Warden which was yet another highlight.

Finally a thanks to all the chalet mates for the chat and company, I enjoyed it all except the dogpile!!!

Dave Hancock
15th-November-2005, 03:00 PM
Can't believe I forgot to thank to my MK stalkers!! You know who you are and look forward to repeating the experience at future weekenders:hug: :hug:

RachD
15th-November-2005, 03:00 PM
The Super Good :grin:

Being Re-united with/dancing with the Clapham Crew on Saturday & Sunday night....such a lovely bunch of people!

FANTASTIC hip hop classes (solo & partenerned) with Dan and Kim. Even though I couldn't complete the routine by the end of the session (due to brain being completely mashed), they were by far the best classes I did. Haven't laughed so hard in ages. A good choice if you fancied a break from the norm. Excellent teaching - very clear instructions. :nice:

Best lie-in ever on Saturday morning...

Dancing with a Yorkshire man (name ?) in the early hours of Mon morning who made me look like I could do every move there is!

Having the chance to practise some Lindy moves with some great leads!


The Bad

Suffering a horrible asthma attack Friday :sad: Can't breathe? Can't dance :sad:

Poor teaching (sorry, can't remember their names) for ONLY Lindy class there was & (same teachers) for Locks, Drops & Morphs. (Funny, as they were ok at teaching the Shim Sham) :rolleyes:

Not waking up in time for Charleston on Sunday morning :sad: .... demonstrations from friends later were fab!


The Ugly

Me attempting ladies styling....the conclusion being, I think I will be sticking to my own style from here on! :what:

Lynn
15th-November-2005, 03:03 PM
Also while I'd agree with some of the comments regarding the amount of swing in the blues room, I'd have to admit that it was billed as a blues and swing room so we can't really complain. There were some tremendous sets also played. I really enjoyed Greg's sets and think he's pushing DD as my favourite DJ, he played some seriously wicked tunes. There was some lovely music in there. I also really enjoyed Greg's sets both downstairs and in the tea room.


Finally a thanks to all the chalet mates for the chat and company, I enjoyed it all except the dogpile!!!:rofl: :whistle:

Blues Dancer
15th-November-2005, 03:05 PM
I enjoyed some of the weekend.

Main downer for me, was (as has previously been said by a number of people!), the music.

Friday night was ok up until about 4am, where it improved significantly (can't remember who the DJ was then).

Saturday night was a total lost cause. I went to bed early, and from what I heard the next day, this was the right choice. Way too much fast swing. Expect that earlier on, but by 3am, I just wanted one slow track. Any slow track....

Sunday, after the experience of Saturday, I didn't turn up until 2am for Greg's set, which was great, and the first half of Nelson's set was great too - unfortunately, I had to leave before the end, as I had to work on Monday afternoon.

Blues Dancer
15th-November-2005, 03:05 PM
Oops. Double post. So sorry....

Paul F
15th-November-2005, 03:12 PM
So, does anyone actually like fast swing? :confused:

It appears that one of the biggest issues was that some of the music was simply too fast. Was it because it was really hot, time of day or do the vast majority of people really not like fast swing?

Should the blues/swing room be renamed to just the blues room?

I am going to go out on a limb here (whats new) by suggesting that, already, there is a higher proportion of WCS dancers at these weekenders than Lindy dancers. From what I have seen at the various weekenders there isnt really that many lindy dancers at all. If this is the case then why play any fast swing?
Does a DJ have to cater for the 4 people in the corner? (exaggerated example obviously)

Dave Hancock
15th-November-2005, 03:19 PM
I am going to go out on a limb here (whats new) by suggesting that, already, there is a higher proportion of WCS dancers at these weekenders than Lindy dancers. From what I have seen at the various weekenders there isnt really that many lindy dancers at all. If this is the case then why play any fast swing?
Does a DJ have to cater for the 4 people in the corner? (exaggerated example obviously)
:yeah: :yeah:

Totally agree, although this may be our own personal preferences.

Blues Dancer
15th-November-2005, 03:23 PM
I don't know about totally. I enjoy the occasional faster swing track - Waddya Want / Slow Boat etc. But there was just way too much of it (IMHO) at the weekend.

But certainly, from the middle of the evening onwards, I think that the music should become slower. And maybe the last couple of hours should be almost totally blues tracks. That way, everyone could be catered for.

My main complaint on Saturday night was that it was a swing AND blues room, and from what was played while I was there, and from the comments on Sunday, and from on here, there was almost no blues played at all, in the 7 or so hours that the room was open for.

Is it a question of better choice of DJs for the appropriate slots? I'm fairly sure that Nelson played the first set on Friday (for example). Was he wasted then?

under par
15th-November-2005, 03:24 PM
So, does anyone actually like fast swing? :confused:

It appears that one of the biggest issues was that some of the music was simply too fast. Was it because it was really hot, time of day or do the vast majority of people really not like fast swing?

Should the blues/swing room be renamed to just the blues room?

I am going to go out on a limb here (whats new) by suggesting that, already, there is a higher proportion of WCS dancers at these weekenders than Lindy dancers. From what I have seen at the various weekenders there isnt really that many lindy dancers at all. If this is the case then why play any fast swing?
Does a DJ have to cater for the 4 people in the corner? (exaggerated example obviously)


Hurrah!!:clap:

The general feeling I have personally been recieving is that the 2nd room is a room that dancers want to go to for an alternative option to mainstream/pop/mj/ceroc/???? music.

A place to "PLAY"! One might say!:wink:

I DO enjoy fast swing as part of a balanced diet of other music styles/speed/tempo in my own dance PLAYROOM.:yeah:


But as every parent, teacher and spouse keeps repeating too much of one thing isn't good for you and they also say variety is the spice of life.:flower:


It was the solid wall of fast swing which caused the sensory deprivation in many of the dancers at Camber. I am definitely not against Paul Amos as a swing dj. It was just not for me that night.

Long live variety. and a little latin.:clap:

Msfab
15th-November-2005, 03:30 PM
So, does anyone actually like fast swing? :confused:

It appears that one of the biggest issues was that some of the music was simply too fast. Was it because it was really hot, time of day or do the vast majority of people really not like fast swing?

Should the blues/swing room be renamed to just the blues room?

I am going to go out on a limb here (whats new) by suggesting that, already, there is a higher proportion of WCS dancers at these weekenders than Lindy dancers. From what I have seen at the various weekenders there isnt really that many lindy dancers at all. If this is the case then why play any fast swing?


Sorry, I do like the swing (lindy) stuff. Maybe not for a solid 2 hours, on a busy floor though. I had quite a few dances with various people doing silly things and playing that were great fun.:rofl:

stewart38
15th-November-2005, 03:31 PM
I totally agree.

Whilst it might be seen as paradise for men if there are loads of extra women - it isn't. You don't get a chance to rest, you don't get a chance to choose your partners, and you know you're just being asked to dance because you're a free man, rather than being someone who would be nice to dance with.

I thought the standard at Southport was definitely higher. But yes, my local was a bit of a culture shock last night :(

If you run of the dance floor you can then hide in corner look at all the lovely ladies , see one you would like to dance with then head towards her and as the music start hey presto she has been nab :sad:

You get a tap on the shoulder from someone else and get a surprising one or two lovely dances. Being sometimes shallow im glad some women ask me to dance who i may never have asked to dance :sad:


"The queue" was annoying -- but just ended up chatting -- so no huge problem , but it does need fixing.

SpinDr

I have small confession I told franco id been queueing for 2hrs it was 1hr and 20 mins :whistle:

Have to agree with this statement . I 'acted' as if life had ended and id lost me legs while looking at all these happy faces lol. my stress levels were probably high and why ?

Did i miss anything no,was it the end of the world no .

I need to put life into prospective sometimes. My dad would have been the same as me (having his 6 page letter of complaint formulating in his head) He had 5 heart attacks and 3 strokes, i dont need that. If it happens again im going to make like a Tree and think happy thoughts :flower:

ps im sure some people were pushing in :angry: :angry: no there needs were greater then mine :flower: :flower:

LMC
15th-November-2005, 03:32 PM
It's been real interesting reading everyone's feedback - thanks.

But it hasn't given me any regrets - whereas reading the post-Southport in June thread made me really wish I had been there...

under par
15th-November-2005, 03:42 PM
I

I have small confession I told franco id been queueing for 2hrs it was 1hr and 20 mins :whistle:

Have to agree with this statement . I 'acted' as if life had ended and id lost me legs while looking at all these happy faces lol. my stress levels were probably high and why ?

Did i miss anything no,was it the end of the world no .

I need to put life into prospective sometimes. My dad would have been the same as me (having his 6 page letter of complaint formulating in his head) He had 5 heart attacks and 3 strokes, i dont need that. If it happens again im going to make like a Tree and think happy thoughts :flower:

ps im sure some people were pushing in :angry: :angry: no there needs were greater then mine :flower: :flower:

Well I refuse to queue as it is such a waste so I went and had a massage relieved all the stress whilst Mrs Par had a cup of tea at Minnies:yeah:

Note nothing was open where you could sit and wait for queue to die down no cafe! no pub! no restaurant! nothing!

HITMAN
15th-November-2005, 03:58 PM
All teachers are told to promote the Dvd after their classes, teachers and dj's are paid out of the income from the sales of the Dvd/video so it's in their interest to promote. Secondly I promote the Dvd/video from the stage using annoucements, showing teachers clips on screen and flyers as I am paid by the number of orders taken over the weekend as well.

2005 has not been the best year for event dvd's with many taking months to be released or not even being produced, I try my best to get the Dvd out asap, WSM dance champs 2 weeks, Camber in 4, but to film these types of events and make money I and the teachers need to promote as much as we do. I'm sorry if you think it's to much after every class but without promoting their would be no Dvd/video.

Finally many dancers ask me to include some freestyle dancing on the Dvd so using 3 cameras we capture about 30 minutes after the cabaret while the lights are already up, surely you can manage half an hour out of the 20 hours when the lights are down and thats just the upstairs venue!

I am filming the teachers routines from 11am onwards until the last class finishes at 8pm, (a chance to eat and have a break) I'm then back at 11-30pm to film the cabaret + some freestyle then promote the Dvd because without the orders I don't get paid.

Steve 'The Hit Man' Strong
www.jivevideo.co.uk

stewart38
15th-November-2005, 04:00 PM
Well I refuse to queue as it is such a waste so I went and had a massage relieved all the stress whilst Mrs Par had a cup of tea at Minnies:yeah:

Note nothing was open where you could sit and wait for queue to die down no cafe! no pub! no restaurant! nothing!

I think all the fruit machines were working ,had enough time to look at them all as we slowly queued past them :nice: Picked the wrong day to give up gambling


It's been real interesting reading everyone's feedback - thanks.

But it hasn't given me any regrets - whereas reading the post-Southport in June thread made me really wish I had been there...

Are you joking, with 50 extra women walking of in all directions in Amirs class we needed your organisational skills.

'No DEAR' its move on 7 now not 5, no you go off that way and no dont jump in that queue I was right at the front ....:mad:

Sheepman
15th-November-2005, 04:05 PM
My main complaint on Saturday night was that it was a swing AND blues room, and from what was played while I was there, and from the comments on Sunday, and from on here, there was almost no blues played at all, in the 7 or so hours that the room was open for. A shame you didn't stay a bit later then...
I've just checked my playlist for Saturday, I played one track at 130 bpm, one at 94, most of it was around 100 to 115, slow swing, R&B & blues, and a touch of Latin.

Greg

tsh
15th-November-2005, 04:16 PM
I am filming the teachers routines from 11am onwards until the last class finishes at 8pm, (a chance to eat and have a break) I'm then back at 11-30pm to film the cabaret + some freestyle then promote the Dvd because without the orders I don't get paid.


Sorry, I didn't mean to sugest that the DVD production wasn't up to scratch - the clips shown from previous events were excelent in terms of showing what sort of quality was availible (and very effective advertising). In the main the videoing was suprisingly unobtrusive, which was great - the same spiel after every class has made me less likely to buy the DVD though.

I still maintain that a seperate slot, not at peak time (having waited for the cabaret and sat through it) is the best time to indulge the people who haven't got their own video cameras.

Sean

Zebra Woman
15th-November-2005, 04:34 PM
A shame you didn't stay a bit later then...
I've just checked my playlist for Saturday, I played one track at 130 bpm, one at 94, most of it was around 100 to 115, slow swing, R&B & blues, and a touch of Latin.

Greg

Hmm that is the only thing I feel bad about missing, I'm sure I would have loved your set Greg.

I have a dream -

In response to the success of Southport and hopefully Storm, from now on Franco's weekenders will have the gender imbalance controlled, limited numbers, daytime freestyle on a real floor, and a room or rooms where blues/latin music is guaranteed at night.

I know it's only a dream.... :sad:

I missed this Camber hoping it was the last weekender ever with the overcrowding problem, too many women, and fast swing in the blues room late at night. Reading all this, I'm glad I did.

It seems sad to me that where Franco led the way with weekenders years ago, he now seems to be lagging seriously behind, well from a woman's point of view anyway.



ZW

stewart38
15th-November-2005, 04:38 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to sugest that the DVD production wasn't up to scratch - the clips shown from previous events were excelent in terms of showing what sort of quality was availible (and very effective advertising). In the main the videoing was suprisingly unobtrusive, which was great - the same spiel after every class has made me less likely to buy the DVD though.

I still maintain that a seperate slot, not at peak time (having waited for the cabaret and sat through it) is the best time to indulge the people who haven't got their own video cameras.

Sean

your talking about bright lights for 20 mins ? whats the problem ? your for warned and its hardly like the poor guy is in your face and you can go down stairs. Your not allowed to film,now that would be a pain

Im sure no one looks their best with the lights on but Id prefer midnight then rather then 5am :sad: If its at 9pm most people wont be there

I think a DVD with the Maddison stroll or cha cha slide etc or with just some variation would sell much better. The format is very wooden but give the guy a break , he wants turkey on the table like all of us this xmas

David Bailey
15th-November-2005, 04:45 PM
I have a dream -

In response to the success of Southport and hopefully Storm, from now on Franco's weekenders will have the gender imbalance controlled, limited numbers, daytime freestyle on a real floor, and a room or rooms where blues/latin music is guaranteed at night.

I know it's only a dream.... :sad:
I too share this dream, it's called "relying on market forces", that's why I always put positive and negative things in (OK, I am also someone who loves a good old whinge :blush: ), in the hope that feedback will improve future events.

If it's any consolation, ZW, you were very much missed. :flower:

Will
15th-November-2005, 04:48 PM
www.jivevideo.co.uk
Just clicked on this link and noticed that the main photo on the front page of their website is none other than Stevie Wong and Donna! A shrewd business move indeed.

stewart38
15th-November-2005, 04:48 PM
It seems sad to me that where Franco led the way with weekenders years ago, he now seems to be lagging seriously behind, well from a woman's point of view anyway.

ZW

Yes but many women dont stay away so it cant be a major problem for many and its not all their first weekender at camber. Its wrong i know but you would have thought with all the competition it would started to correct itself.

I dont think it was as bad as May but yes clearly there was a inbalance

I dont hear the teacher say 'with 40 extra ladies' ,ladies if you want to pair off with each other please feel free to do so. Not even in the bump and grind one or strictly sinful one which was a great pity :wink:

dee
15th-November-2005, 04:51 PM
Yeah, funny how when you and Dee are together, you've got the red eye and she hasn't... :whistle:

I'm amazed that Stewart38's still alive and kicking, by the way - nice restraint there :rofl:

Hey Mr DJ we all know how you get a red eye and i can say that sort of thing has not happened to me in ages :wink:

dee
15th-November-2005, 04:57 PM
What Nigel did to me when I'd satisifed him with a couple of slow tracks! :wink: :eek:

Greg zzzzzzzzzz

:eek: tell us more :innocent:

Jon L
15th-November-2005, 07:38 PM
Well I have just logged in for the first time in many months.

It was really good to meet one or two Forumites on Friday. I enjoyed dancing with you and hopefully you likewise with moi. :nice:

It was very touch and go as to whether I was going to make it, it looked like I might have had to go to work during the weekend, but at the last minute things sorted themselves out, so good news all round really.

I apologise for not being present on Sunday. I did have to return as I felt it was right for me to get back, and I had a busy day yesterday.

Also another reason was that on Saturday night I injured my left shoulder, and it stiffened up quite badly by Sunday morning. I was sitting on the edge of the blues room stage dancing but also watching you all from about midnight. I had a dance with Karen (Nelson's wife) at the end, I had not seen since them since June, but I had to take it easy this time around I am afraid.

I had massage treatment on Sunday, and the masseurs advised no dancing. :sad: I have given it two days rest and it is beginning to mend but it is still not quite right yet.

OK - see some of you - somewhere - sometime - Jon L

Msfab
15th-November-2005, 07:47 PM
Well heres what I thought of Camber Nov 2005.
Getting there wasn't too much of a problem, As we'd sent Just wiggle and wicked blue ahead - good plan me thinks after hearing about the hour long wait.

Friday night was good. I spent most of my time downstairs in the blues/swing room. Met some lovely forumites and caught up old ones. I much preferred the music and atmosphere downstairs, where the music and if the partner lets you your allowed to play around! I thought it was just me suffering from the heat.


Saturday. Well this day took for ever to start. I did 2 lessons with wicked blue (Jim/Nicky and Karen/Nelson). Then the Gala night, turned up 10ish. Had one salsa dance with spindr downstairs. Ventured upstairs. I thought the music was really loud and didn't really enjoy it:sad: . I waited for the cabarets. I liked the lindy number, but they could of made a little more of an effort with attire. The Maori thing :confused: . Its good to see other things, but I thought it went on for a bit too long. And what was that baby in pram all about? Would have been nice to something a bit more exciting. Saturday has never been the best night for me and this one was no exception.


Sunday. just pottered around for most of the day. Looked at a few of the classes. I was looking forward to seeing what the locks, stops and morphs class was all about, I lasted all of about 10 minutes. Had a look at the Tango Jive in Harlem (this might have been Saturday), their Demo (in my opinion did not look good at all. :sick:


Sunday Night, Now we're talking. By Far the best night for me. I spent most it downstairs in the blues/swing room. Oh my Lord I had some of the best dances with Spindr, KevF, DaveHancock, mooncalf, Raphael, Under par to name but a few... :drool: I really had to tear myself away to rest and get over the excitement and give a chance for other to dance with these amazing men. Sorry Dave Hancock, I left just before the last song, my feet couldn't take it anymore.


The only trouble with Camber is when its over, my feet hurt for ages :tears: But I still made to Jango! That enough from me.

Mr Cool
15th-November-2005, 08:09 PM
Well I Have to say I had a wonderful weekend.

Good points
lots of great dances wIth lots of different ladies
Great music from Steve Lambert, John Ford and Nelson in the Swing and blues room:worthy: :worthy:
for me in genaral the music in the swing/blues was more varied and interesting than Southport,
I thought it was the Quality of the swing music that suffered on occasions not the speed (sorry Paul)
Dancing freestyle at lunch time is wonderful.

Bad points
Not enough dance space same problem as Southport :mad: :mad: !!!!!!!

Too much non swing /blues music in the bkues room :mad: at one stage on sat. night Greg played 3 Cha Cha tracks on the trot. Most WCS dancers failed to fit the triple steps to the music, maybe he thought they needed the practice :rofl:

Rodgers music upstairs sorry he's a great guy hate his music (does anybody enjoy it? I guess move monsters love it):drool:

Not enough blood and guts Blues I think we missed Peter Philips music

Personally I just want to dance so i was disappointed to find no floor in the tea room.
Franco you need to address this and have a latin room at night.
Greg would be perfect as DJ :worthy:
Ps. I like good latin as well

Parking space what a nightmare

Overall great weekend for me slightly better than Southport but then I detest that long drive. :waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

Lynn
15th-November-2005, 08:25 PM
Also another reason was that on Saturday night I injured my left shoulder, and it stiffened up quite badly by Sunday morning. I was sitting on the edge of the blues room stage dancing but also watching you all from about midnight. I had a dance with Karen (Nelson's wife) at the end, I had not seen since them since June, but I had to take it easy this time around I am afraid.

I had massage treatment on Sunday, and the masseurs advised no dancing. :sad: I have given it two days rest and it is beginning to mend but it is still not quite right yet. Noticed you weren't about on the dance floor on Sunday night - I thought you had gone home early. I hope your shoulder gets better soon. :flower:

tiger
15th-November-2005, 08:41 PM
For those who were downstairs for long periods or all night saturday.

There were quite a lot of slow or medium pace music(blues/swing,latin+pop) played on saturday night,both earlier,Bob and later on,Colin+Ian. Possibly more than was being played downstairs? (after reading all these posts about fast swing).

David Bailey
15th-November-2005, 09:07 PM
There were quite a lot of slow or medium pace music(blues/swing,latin+pop) played on saturday night,both earlier,Bob and later on,Colin+Ian. Possibly more than was being played downstairs? (after reading all these posts about fast swing).
I reckon a "coming attractions" electronic scoreboard (ticker-type display) would be great for these events.

Paul F
15th-November-2005, 10:09 PM
I reckon a "coming attractions" electronic scoreboard (ticker-type display) would be great for these events.

I have been wondering for a while if it would be possible for a DJ to post their intended playlist before an event :what: :what:

Ok, it would take a very brave DJ to do that and the list may be subject to change due to the floor but I think it would be great.

mooncalf
15th-November-2005, 10:12 PM
I have been wondering for a while if it would be possible for a DJ to post their intended playlist before an event :what: :what:

Ok, it would take a very brave DJ to do that and the list may be subject to change due to the floor but I think it would be great.

Yes and then you could give each of your partners a list of your intended moves for each track.

David Bailey
15th-November-2005, 10:14 PM
I have been wondering for a while if it would be possible for a DJ to post their intended playlist before an event :what: :what:

Ok, it would take a very brave DJ to do that and the list may be subject to change due to the floor but I think it would be great.
Even a general idea of (for want of a better word) "strategy" would be nice.

E.g. "I'll start of with pop, then swing, then blues, then maybe Latin, then mix it up" - that'd help me at least.


Yes and then you could give each of your partners a list of your intended moves for each track.
With some people, that might not be such a bad idea...

Seriously, with two or more rooms, so many people dash from one to the other trying to find a feel for a room at different times - why not at least give some indication of what's likely to be on?

Paul F
15th-November-2005, 10:19 PM
Even a general idea of (for want of a better word) "strategy" would be nice.

E.g. "I'll start of with pop, then swing, then blues, then maybe Latin, then mix it up" - that'd help me at least.


With some people, that might not be such a bad idea...

Seriously, with two or more rooms, so many people dash from one to the other trying to find a feel for it, why not at least give some indication of what's likely to be on?

:yeah:

Paul F
15th-November-2005, 10:20 PM
Yes and then you could give each of your partners a list of your intended moves for each track.

:grin: give me chance to catch up on some rest while still dancing! :wink:

mooncalf
15th-November-2005, 10:32 PM
:grin: give me chance to catch up on some rest while still dancing! :wink:

but then there are some dancers who won't let you do what you intended anyway :wink:

Paul F
15th-November-2005, 10:37 PM
but then there are some dancers who won't let you do what you intended anyway :wink:

know what you mean ;) :grin:

Sylph
15th-November-2005, 11:56 PM
Some shots of people caught off guard !!

Sylph, caught totally unawares directing traffic (it did get busy down there)



Controlling the traffic is well worth the effort :blush:

Many thanks to Mr and Mrs UP and Sheepman for great company. I found it challenging to keep aBREAST of the repartee :rofl:

Enjoyed a walk on the stunning beach. Thanks for all the lovely dances :nice: :nice:

Can't wait to do it all again.

Claire S
16th-November-2005, 12:50 AM
Finally a thanks to all the chalet mates for the chat and company, I enjoyed it all except the dogpile!!!:innocent: :innocent: :innocent:

I blame George Bush.... :whistle:

MartinHarper
16th-November-2005, 01:51 AM
As every parent, teacher and spouse keeps repeating too much of one thing isn't good for you and they also say variety is the spice of life.:flower:

It was the solid wall of fast swing which caused the sensory deprivation in many of the dancers at Camber.

It's sometimes nice to get a chunk of time allocated to a specific style of music, provided there's advanced warning. For example, on one weekender I went to, they had a 30-60 minute slot of pure WCS music. Having done a couple of WCS lessons, I welcomed the chance that gave me to brutally mangle WCS myself, watch other dancers doing it properly, and listen to WCS music. Certainly it was much more convenient than having WCS-suitable music scattered randomly throughout the evening.

Gojive
16th-November-2005, 02:48 AM
My take on the weekend...

The good

Once again, feeling part of a fantastic community of like minded individuals, for hours on end! Why can't life be like this as a norm? :)

Meeting a few more forumites :cheers:

A decent attempt at providing bottled water for a reasonable price (£1)

Some great music for most of the time....I love swing tracks :eek:

A non-existant check-in queue at 8pm :wink:

Some great floorcraft being demonstrated between forumites in the Swing/Blues room :clap:

No seagull ***** on my car on Monday :grin:

A very subdued seagull chorus on Sunday morning - anyone else notice how quiet they were on that one day?

The bad

Some selfish parking on site :mad:

Some selfish and downright dangerous off-site parking by the exit near Londis :angry:

The heat on Fryday evening! :eek:

Some of the music...

The indifferent

The dance floor... I noticed a few minor ridges on temporary floor, but overall, I have to say the general floor condition throughout the weekend seemed to be at least quite consistant.

The cabaret - I just found this totally flat, and uninspiring.

Some of the music...

The ugly

One guy who danced upstairs, who though it would be cool to wear jeans that only half covered his arse :sick: :sick: :sick:

A pratt in a white sports car, who tried to impress by accelerating out of the exit at max throttle on Sat afternoon, with dozens of people milling around - one slight error of judjement and......:sad:

The sad

Learning of a road accident fatality very near by on Saturday evening, while we were busy having fun, and completely oblivious :sad:

The really funny

Wittybird losing her suspenders/tights/pop-socks after during our first dance :rofl: :rofl:

In summary, I usually gauge the success of my weekenders, by how much I ache on Mon/Tue.....I felt like I'd run a marathon! :waycool:

WittyBird
16th-November-2005, 07:41 AM
The really funny

Wittybird losing her suspenders/tights/pop-socks after during our first dance :rofl: :rofl:

Glad I provided entertainment for you :blush:
Gotta admit it was damn funny :rofl: I had tried to forget about that but hey ho.... Now everyone knows... Thanks :eek:

Lets hope I dont lose them today shooting the Britney video :what:

Nessa
16th-November-2005, 08:04 AM
Ooh, talking of pics... can you spot which one is the Boy chalet and which one is the Girl chalet? :innocent:
The one on the right (on screen) is the Girls chalet of course!:whistle:
:flower: That means ( from what I remember at Southport) that the one on the left must be Under Par's!! :rofl:

under par
16th-November-2005, 10:44 AM
:flower: That means ( from what I remember at Southport) that the one on the left must be Under Par's!! :rofl:

Nessa,

I did dress more consevatively at Camber:wink: :D

My room is much messier than that anyway:devil:

U.P.:flower:

Lynn
16th-November-2005, 11:17 AM
For those who were downstairs for long periods or all night saturday.

There were quite a lot of slow or medium pace music(blues/swing,latin+pop) played on saturday night,both earlier,Bob and later on,Colin+Ian. Possibly more than was being played downstairs? (after reading all these posts about fast swing).It was Sunday night that people were referring to. I agree about Sat night, several times when I went upstairs there were some lovely tracks. I know I danced to tracks like Fire, Amado Mio etc up there. But on Sunday night it seemed to be fast in both rooms at the same time, I wanted to pace myself to enjoy the whole night.

Re the DJs and playlists etc, my earlier suggestion was to provide a short description of the DJ style, or style that he intends to play for that set would be helpful. Eg if I had known it was going to be either pop or fast swing for a full set upstairs and downstairs I would have had a rest in the chalet instead of getting frustrated. (Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike swing, I go to a swing evening every Monday and am doing a Lindy workshop on the 26th, but on Sunday night/Monday morning I wanted the occasional slower track!). Its easy when you know the DJs style - eg I know I like Greg's sets.

Lounge Lizard
16th-November-2005, 12:14 PM
I have been wondering for a while if it would be possible for a DJ to post their intended playlist before an event :what: :what:

Ok, it would take a very brave DJ to do that and the list may be subject to change due to the floor but I think it would be great.NOoooooooooooooooooooo

This will take us back to the laptop debate, If you are using pre-prepared music, why employ a DJ

I do not have a clue what I am going to play before a set, perhaps three or four tracks that I want to try out and that is it
I do not know what the DJ before me is going to play, although I may know the style of music he prefers.
I do not know what the dancers will be like - in a swing n blues room there may be really experienced dancers who want to be challanged or new dancers to blues dancing that want comfortable music to dance to.

Prepare the playlist....no way, I often change my mind over the next track about three times - I think the DJ in a blues room should take the dancers on a musical journey, as they react to the music he reacts to their dancing.
This is how it all started in the 1930's the bands would play music to challange the dancers, in turn the dancers would adapt to meet the challange - dont think MJ needs to go that far but if you are going to stand in a DJ booth for a couple of hours at least try to make it interesting - how do you do this with a prepared playlist?

My preferance in a swing/blues room is music around 115 - 130bpm with a mix of faster swing (not over 155bpm) mid to slow blues (not below 80bpm) mix in some Latin and add a few suprises, but most important watch the dance floor, and watch the edge of the dance floor, why are they not all dancing, what can I play to get everyone dancing.

The beauty of weekenders is that DJ's can try different and varied music, and all the DJ's in my experience do their best to keep the dance floor busy with their own style of music.
Peter Phillips

Paul F
16th-November-2005, 12:35 PM
NOoooooooooooooooooooo
.....
The beauty of weekenders is that DJ's can try different and varied music, and all the DJ's in my experience do their best to keep the dance floor busy with their own style of music.
Peter Phillips

I love the idea of a DJ creating this journey of sound but in reality it rarely seems to work. Very rarely.
At the very least some guidance on the upcoming DJs would be nice to know. You mentioned the DJs having their own style of music. Cant this be advertised and made known to the dancers?

Limpy Tink
16th-November-2005, 12:46 PM
Have had a good nights sleep now and feel refreshed - so here goes!!

The good:

As always great company to share with - so thanks to Silverfox, Spice'n'easy' -and Lucy this time too. Not sure if SF has mentioned this yet SnE - double sausage, triple bacon, eggs, beans etc etc..... :rofl: :rofl:

Some great dances and some really fab tunes courtesy of sheepman :worthy:
I am sure I danced with some of you lovely forumites - but I am never very good with names!!:blush: Thank you David James for the lovely dances (it is nice to finally put a face to a name!!) Also to Dave Hancock (not that I realised who you were until Di informed me!) SnE - always a pleasure :flower: and SF - fabulous dance upstairs on Sat night (def 1 of our best!)

Paul & Cats WCS class :worthy: - (extending my lessons to 3 - But I WILL get better!!)

Just watching Paul F and Victoria - so much musicality (you just looked fantastic :worthy: ) - and needless to say, I was not dancing next to you!!!

Not making it to the beach!!:whistle:


The bad

The bl**dy fireworks :angry: banging and crashing around (and its not like we have not just had bonfire night!!!) when I was trying to catch a few z's on Sat evening before a full night of dancing (or was I just dreaming and it was actually Cruella banging on the door to be let in - trying to wake us up :wink: )

Old moan - so will not harp on... too many women!!:mad:

Having to park miles (slight eggageration!) down the road and having to carry everything on to the site. Glad now I didn't take my foot spa (sorry SF).

The look of Spice'n'Easy's face upon waking up on Sat morning (err lunchtime ;) ) to find myself & SF snacking;) SnE - did I mention double sausage, triple bacon.......:rofl:

Not having Danielle with us this time to organise BBQ / drinks / party etc. We will have to get ourselves organised for Storm!!:nice:

In general - I had a great weekend (not quite as good as Southport) but fab nonetheless. Thank you to all who danced with me.

David Bailey
16th-November-2005, 12:47 PM
I love the idea of a DJ creating this journey of sound but in reality it rarely seems to work. Very rarely.
At the very least some guidance on the upcoming DJs would be nice to know. You mentioned the DJs having their own style of music. Cant this be advertised and made known to the dancers?
:yeah:
I'm not asking for massive amounts of detail - hell, even a "bio" type thing about each DJ ("Peter Philips style is ...") would help. A little more information than just the first name, in other words - would that kill people?

For example, even that paragon of organisation, Southport, had loads of info about the teachers, but nothing on the DJs - and most people will spend at least as much time dancing as learning, so surely a comparable amount of information would be helpful?

Zebra Woman
16th-November-2005, 12:58 PM
:yeah:
I'm not asking for massive amounts of detail - hell, even a "bio" type thing about each DJ ("Peter Philips style is ...") would help. A little more information than just the first name, in other words - would that kill people?

For example, even that paragon of organisation, Southport, had loads of info about the teachers, but nothing on the DJs - and most people will spend at least as much time dancing as learning, so surely a comparable amount of information would be helpful?

I can't see this working DJ. We will just end up with some pumped up marketing hype for each DJ.

What we need is the Rough Guide to DJs, warts and all, written by the dancers themselves. A place where the DJ is judged by his/her latest set, but past performance is taken into consideration too. A bit like this forum wouldn't you say?

ZW:devil:

Paul F
16th-November-2005, 01:00 PM
The bl**dy fireworks :angry: banging and crashing around (and its not like we have not just had bonfire night!!!) when I was trying to catch a few z's on Sat evening before a full night of dancing

I forgot about that. That really annoyed me too :angry:
Trying my best to catch up on my sleep for a couple of hours. Not a chance.

robd
16th-November-2005, 01:16 PM
It's a bit late but I've only got net access at work now so....

GOOD
Meeting a few people from the forum for the first time
Some great dances with forumites and non-forumites
A uniformly high level of teaching in the classes I attended
More women - as a leader you were not ever struggling for a partner
The sheer quality of some of the dancing, especially downstairs, on view. It was my first full (almost full) weekender and WOW! Viktor was as impressive as his reputation lead me to expect, Paul Warden was incredible in the half-dance that I observed before his class and I think the best dance I saw during the weekend was on Sunday early morning between someone whose name I do not know but have seen at Daventry before and a lady called, I think, Sarah who dances regularly around Ceroc Central. It just matched to the music so well. The man was wearing a kind of american sports shirt and training shoes - if it was you then :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:
Free electricity in the apartment
New patent leather dance shoes from the onsite shop
The Sunday lunchtime Top 30 (or was it 29?) in the main hall - my most enjoyable time on the big floor though whether my perception of this was affected by sleep deprivation having gotten in at 6 to be up at 10 for Jango is debatable!
A couple of vidoes from previous Cambers at £5 a pop


BAD
Feeling distinctly inexperienced/inept/incapable at times, particularly downstairs. I sat downstairs from 3.45 to 5.50 on Sun morning and danced maybe 7 or 8 times. The remainder of the time was spent watching and learning and I do feel my dancing has improved even just over the course of this weekend but when I saw the standard of the dances some of the ladies were enjoying downstairs I couldn't help but feel that they were being short changed when partnered by myself
More women - I feel so sorry for the ladies who are less assertive (and/or, lets be truthful, attractive) because it must have been so difficult to get a decent share of dancing. In some respects this made Camber just a microcosm of the wider ceroc/partner dance world but I would hate to be in that position.
Uneven flooring - commented on by a number of my partners
The cabaret - completely underwhelming - though that's my personal taste.
A slightly loose sole on the heel of my new shoes - attempts to get advice/repair from the onsite dance shop were a waste of time though in fairness they were incredibly busy at that point and they had been very helpful the previous night when I was choosing the shoes. I decided in the end to fix it myself and there's some useful advice somewhere on the forum for me to dig out.
Classes in the lower room - it's just not suited to teaching the numbers involved. The lack of elevation of the stage, the pillars, etc all combine to create a trying situation. I can see why some people attend weekenders just for the freestyle but if, like me, you are in the sticks, the chance to learn from the teachers at these events is too good an opportunity to pass up
Both sets of keys not working in apartment door at 2 am Sat morning - fortunately security were just passing and let us in. New lock was fitted next day by a very amiable maintenance man.
So many f***ing fireworks going off on early Sat evening as I attempted to get some sleep
Having to leave mid- Sunday afternoon for a previous appt - traffic chaos on M20 which luckily managed to miss by heading for A20
Only catching 5 minutes of Paul Warden's WCS beginner's due to the last point.

UGLY
My behaviour on Saturday night towards some people - shameful and inexcusable.


All in all though, a fantastic weekend. Can't wait for the next one.

Robert

Sheepman
16th-November-2005, 01:40 PM
at one stage on sat. night Greg played 3 Cha Cha tracks on the trot. Nah, it was only 2 in a row. But agreed, there was a fair proportion of latin flavour tracks in that set (7 out of 27 tracks). I had a discussion with someone (I forget who) as to whether a swing room should just be swing, and a latin room should be latin and blues, we had to agree to disagree. And does swing and blues relate to the type of music, or the style of dance? WCS is danced to a whole variety of music, much of which I'm sure wouldn't be appreciated in the swing & blues room, but it's still a swing dance

I knew what styles to expect from each DJ, so if it wasn't for me, then I went and had a break. It seems only fair that everyone else should have this information too. In general the style of music I play in the Swing & Blues room will depend on the time of slot I'm playing. If it's early, then more fast(ish) swing, the later it gets, the smoother & slower the music. That's why I love doing the last slot, 'cos I know if I'm still dancing at that time, I want music and a partner that will make me melt...

Greg

Cruella
16th-November-2005, 01:45 PM
That's why I love doing the last slot, 'cos I know if I'm still dancing at that time, I want music and a partner that will make me melt...

Greg
:yeah: That was why i was disappointed on the saturday night i think it was just the wrong DJ at the wrong time. The set on the last hour wasn't a bad set, just at the wrong time of the evening!

Paul F
16th-November-2005, 01:45 PM
In general the style of music I play in the Swing & Blues room will depend on the time of slot I'm playing. If it's early, then more fast(ish) swing, the later it gets, the smoother & slower the music. That's why I love doing the last slot, 'cos I know if I'm still dancing at that time, I want music and a partner that will make me melt...

Greg


And thats what I wish all DJs would adhere to.

That way I can catch up on my sleep and turn out later knowing that the music will have slowed down as the night wears on. Unfortunately it doesnt happen like that. I suppose this could be that some people will also want faster tracks late on. Cant see it being many though.

Zebra Woman
16th-November-2005, 01:52 PM
I knew what styles to expect from each DJ, so if it wasn't for me, then I went and had a break. It seems only fair that everyone else should have this information too. In general the style of music I play in the Swing & Blues room will depend on the time of slot I'm playing. If it's early, then more fast(ish) swing, the later it gets, the smoother & slower the music. That's why I love doing the last slot, 'cos I know if I'm still dancing at that time, I want music and a partner that will make me melt...

Greg
:yeah:

I would plan my whole weekend around a late set by you Greg, and I know I'm definitely not alone.

Someone please book Greg as a DJ and give him the last slot in the blues room. :flower:

(Sorry Martin)
Wes and John are you reading this?

Spice 'n' Easy
16th-November-2005, 02:39 PM
The look of Spice'n'Easy's face upon waking up on Sat morning (err lunchtime ;) ) to find myself & SF snacking;) SnE - did I mention double sausage, triple bacon.......:rofl:

None left for poor hungry Spicey :tears: :tears:

David Bailey
16th-November-2005, 03:24 PM
I can't see this working DJ. We will just end up with some pumped up marketing hype for each DJ.
Well, that's what we've got at the moment for the teachers now... :whistle:

OK, OK, I'll move to the Rough Guide thread, although I suspect it may descend into luvviedom.

Lee
16th-November-2005, 06:25 PM
:yeah: That was why i was disappointed on the saturday night i think it was just the wrong DJ at the wrong time. The set on the last hour wasn't a bad set, just at the wrong time of the evening!

I hardly saw Spice & Easy at the weekend, and so never got to meet any of the forumites :really: , hey ho there's always next time. I was in a large group from Clapham anyway so i wasn't on my own.

Great weekend :clap: as expected apart from the heat & cramped conditions on the floor until 2am each night :mad: , and wasn't impressed with the cabaret on sat night :eek: :angry: ?

:cheers: :cheers:

Lee
I'm blonde, what's your excuse?
Copyright ‘LMC’

Sheppy
16th-November-2005, 06:44 PM
The good,
Arriving just as fellow inmates got to the front of the excessively long check in queue, reasonable accomodation. Strictly Sinful

The bad,
No room to dance until very late in the morning, way too many people for the venues (1 room less than Southport and another 350ish people.) No water coolers, less bar staff in the main room than in the limited capacity blues room, same music often playing in both rooms. The heat, the condensation dropping on your head from the roof as you danced. The excessive "buy our DVD adverts."

Not sure whether I'm missing the point here but if you go on a dance weekender isn't the point of it to do some dancing??? It only became sensible late on sunday night when a lot had gone home. Certainly not going on the next one, and really hope Ceroc don't stuff up Storm by trying to make as much money as possible by cramming too many in.

Cruella
16th-November-2005, 06:45 PM
I hardly saw Spice & Easy at the weekend, and so never got to meet any of the forumites :really: , hey ho there's always next time. I was in a large group from Clapham anyway so i wasn't on my own.

Great weekend :clap: as expected apart from the heat & cramped conditions on the floor until 2am each night :mad: , and wasn't impressed with the cabaret on sat night :eek: :angry: ?

:cheers: :cheers:

Lee
I'm blonde, what's your excuse?
Copyright ‘LMC’
Sorry we didn't get to meet Lee, for that promised dance. I'll blame Riaz!

David Bailey
16th-November-2005, 08:30 PM
and really hope Ceroc don't stuff up Storm by trying to make as much money as possible by cramming too many in.
:rofl:

How could you possibly think such a thing? :whistle: :innocent:

Lory
16th-November-2005, 11:43 PM
The good

The journey down, quick and trouble free:clap:

The forum meeting, getting to meet a couple of new faces and lots of old friends too:hug:

Eating out

The blues room music on sunday/monday morning:drool:

The afternoon session in the Tea room, great music and loads of space, I just wished I'd found out about this sooner:rolleyes:

Being part of the forum and having a dance partner :yeah: (see comment about imbalance of women in the Bad)

Nice weather

The lovely dances I had with all the lovely guys:cheers:

See Witty in a pair of SHOES and watching her love every minute of her first weekender:grin:

The massive bonfire (the biggest one i've ever seen) and street procession in Rye on Saturday night, it was quite something!:really:

The air-con working WELL on Sunday night!

The bad

I've never seen so many people crowded on the dance floor at a weekender before, it was ridiculous!

The imbalance of men and women was the worst 'i've' ever experienced! :(
I got seriously fed up at one point on Saturday night (which is very unlike me) after attempting to ask 'someone', or 'anyone', for a dance in a polite manor and failing miserably for 4 tracks on the trot on this occasion, I was about to give up altogether and head to bed :sad: but thankfully I was rescued by some forum men and this is also where having a dancepartner, really was 'the ulimate luxury weekender accessory' :na: :clap: (A REALLY BIG thank you to ALL the forumite men.. who made a special effort for us Forumetta's:worthy: :cheers: )

Whilst it might be seen as paradise for men if there are loads of extra women - it isn't. You don't get a chance to rest, you don't get a chance to choose your partners, and you know you're just being asked to dance because you're a free man, rather than being someone who would be nice to dance with.


:yeah:

It's not my style to stalk men, run up and grab them. (good on all the girls that, can and do :worthy: ) But I feel very uncomfortable being forced into this and would rather not dance at all, I'd like to think the men had a choice in who they dance with! :)

Having to queue for water.

The heat on Friday

The temporary floor, which had uneven seams and continuously tripped me up (I must drag my feet or something:confused: )

The fast swing continuing into the early hours :tears:


The really bad

Listening to a message that was sent 4 hours earlier, saying that my daughter had been in a car accident:eek: :tears:

My final comment.

I'm not really sure 'when or if' the dance weekender market will reach saturation point but with so much choice becoming available, I know in the future that I'll be making far more considered choices.

I'll be going for the one's with balanced numbers, free water that's easily available, fast check ins and music that's increasing chilled as the night progresses.;)

Paul F
17th-November-2005, 12:12 AM
Having read these posts about the imbalance of gender and previous ones like it I feel as though I must admit to, one of my many, shortfalls.

For some strange reason I never seem to notice these times of serious imbalance when im at an event in a social capacity.

I dont know why this is and Im not proud of it. Maybe its that I just dont pay attention to how many ladies are actually sat or stood around the dancefloor. I just dont dont know.
As a result I do spend a lot of time dancing with my partner and the ladies in the immediate vacinity whoever they may be. This is what I seemed to do at Camber and for that I apologise. Im not in any way saying ladies would want to dance with me anyway but I should pay attention to things like this and try and do my bit, as a lead, to help rectify it. I suppose I should have realised at Camber simply due to the fact that I could find partners within a few feet of where I was dancing all the time.
Had I realised I would have made a concerted effort to ask other ladies to dance on this and other occasions.

I will definately pay attention in future and try hard not to make this problem worse.

Lynn
17th-November-2005, 12:22 AM
As a result I do spend a lot of time dancing with my partner and the ladies in the immediate vacinity whoever they may be. This is what I seemed to do at Camber and for that I apologise. Im not in any way saying ladies would want to dance with me anyway but I should pay attention to things like this and try and do my bit, as a lead, to help rectify it. I suppose I should have realised at Camber simply due to the fact that I could find partners within a few feet of where I was dancing all the time. I even wandered over to the immediate vicinity at one point and still didn't get a dance :tears:

WittyBird
17th-November-2005, 12:26 AM
I even wandered over to the immediate vicinity at one point and still didn't get a dance :tears:

Nah PaulF is generally very good I normally grab him for a dance:D and he smiles :waycool:

Lynn
17th-November-2005, 12:30 AM
Nah PaulF is generally very good I normally grab him for a dance:D and he smiles :waycool:Yeah, but remember I'm shy! :blush: :whistle: Actually I was going to ask but didn't know who he was I think till the last night then didn't see him not dancing and I'm not the 'stalk em till they are leaving the floor then pounce' type.

Gojive
17th-November-2005, 12:31 AM
Having read these posts about the imbalance of gender and previous ones like it I feel as though I must admit to, one of my many, shortfalls.

For some strange reason I never seem to notice these times of serious imbalance when im at an event in a social capacity.

I dont know why this is and Im not proud of it. Maybe its that I just dont pay attention to how many ladies are actually sat or stood around the dancefloor. I just dont dont know.
As a result I do spend a lot of time dancing with my partner and the ladies in the immediate vacinity whoever they may be. This is what I seemed to do at Camber and for that I apologise. Im not in any way saying ladies would want to dance with me anyway but I should pay attention to things like this and try and do my bit, as a lead, to help rectify it. I suppose I should have realised at Camber simply due to the fact that I could find partners within a few feet of where I was dancing all the time.
Had I realised I would have made a concerted effort to ask other ladies to dance on this and other occasions.

I will definately pay attention in future and try hard not to make this problem worse.

Have you been reading my mind Paul? :eek: That's exactly what I was thinking!

My partner was complaining to me on Sunday afternoon, how she was fed up fighting for a dance with any available men, and I thought she was being a little OTT. I realise now, why she was so fed up.

I certainly could have done more to dance with ladies who were milling and waiting, but I suppose I was guilty of looking for my favourite dancers :blush: . Stupid really, since on the relatively few occassions I did the asking, I discovered some real gems...which gives me the perfect opportunity, to say :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: to Commis Chef - one of my most memorable dances of the weekend :flower: .

I'm going to make a concious effort from now on, to look for women waiting, whether it be a weekender or a club night, and ask them for a dance :)

TheTramp
17th-November-2005, 12:36 AM
Yeah, but remember I'm shy! :blush: :whistle: Actually I was going to ask but didn't know who he was I think till the last night then didn't see him not dancing and I'm not the 'stalk em till they are leaving the floor then pounce' type.

I am. And it was a lovely dance. Thanks Paul :whistle:

Paul F
17th-November-2005, 12:53 AM
I am. And it was a lovely dance. Thanks Paul :whistle:

It certainly was :cheers: I even trusted monsieur Lampert to put me in a dip at one point in double trouble :eek: not an easy task!!!


Lynn - i really am sorry we didnt get to dance. i would love to finally meet you.

under par
17th-November-2005, 02:20 AM
[B]My final comment.

I'm not really sure 'when or if' the dance weekender market will reach saturation point but with so much choice becoming available, I know in the future that I'll be making far more considered choices.

I'll be going for the one's with balanced numbers, free water that's easily available, fast check ins and music that's increasing chilled as the night progresses.;)

I wish I had the courage of your convictions:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

But I am an addict and have already booked up 6 or 7 weekenders for the first half of next year. Do I need help?
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

Danielle
17th-November-2005, 09:37 AM
Not having Danielle with us this time to organise BBQ / drinks / party etc. We will have to get ourselves organised for Storm!!:nice:
.

:flower: :flower: thank you!! missed being there too :sad::hug: :hug:

Sheppy
17th-November-2005, 09:57 AM
:rofl:

How could you possibly think such a thing? :whistle: :innocent:

Well they'd be stupid if they do ruin their chance, if Ceroc do Storm right they can clean up IMHO.

If they compare Southport with Camber they can easily see how it should be done!!!

Lynn
17th-November-2005, 11:28 AM
It certainly was :cheers: I even trusted monsieur Lampert to put me in a dip at one point in double trouble :eek: not an easy task!!!


Lynn - i really am sorry we didnt get to dance. i would love to finally meet you.I only discovered who you were when you were dancing with Steve and came over to say hi but you got up to dance again before I could say hello. Next time!

Lynn
17th-November-2005, 11:30 AM
But I am an addict and have already booked up 6 or 7 weekenders for the first half of next year. Do I need help?
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: I did 5 this year (inc BFG) and a dance hol and was worried I was going to too many! I feel better now! Now I just need to get a better paid job and I can get to more...

Zebra Woman
17th-November-2005, 11:52 AM
Well they'd be stupid if they do ruin their chance, if Ceroc do Storm right they can clean up IMHO.

If they compare Southport with Camber they can easily see how it should be done!!!

Agree.

Camber cannot continue in its current form. By next year the competition hopefully will be too stiff.

There will be so many weekenders to choose from with balanced numbers, daytime freestyling, free water, really chilled music in the blues room.

Adapt or die.:what:

Sheppy
17th-November-2005, 11:54 AM
Agree.

Camber cannot continue in its current form. By next year the competition hopefully will be too stiff.

There will be so many weekenders to choose from with balanced numbers, daytime freestyling, free water, really chilled music in the blues room.

Adapt or die.:what:

:yeah: Well said!!!!
Just debating whether Bognor will be as bad, haven't booked that yet :rolleyes:

Katie
17th-November-2005, 12:01 PM
To help deal with my frustration of there being a gender imbalance at Camber, particularly upstairs, I danced the lead with my female friend, and then swapped to the follow for the second track. I would've been sitting out far more otherwise. I even attempted to lead WCS with her, as she hadn't been lead it before - my lead wasn't pretty, not least me counting one-two three and four five and six for the whole track. :blush:

I even noticed far more men dancing together for pure fun and to improve their lead, which was good to see! :clap:

Lounge Lizard
17th-November-2005, 12:35 PM
Camber cannot continue in its current form. By next year the competition hopefully will be too stiff.

There will be so many weekenders to choose from with balanced numbers, daytime freestyling, free water, really chilled music in the blues room.

Adapt or die.:what:Not sure if this you are right
Camber was sold out, Storm is nearly sold out I hear - no more single ladies can book
Southport is a long drive north for many
so if you cannot get into Storm next year where will you go...............

As long as there are good quality weekenders out there more and more dancers will be interested, If the likes of Storm are booked dancers will look for other events, even if the format/standard/cost is different

Irrespective of the music, teaching etc the big attraction of the weekender is a crowd of happy enthusiastic dancers - this always seems to happen at Camber, no matter who organises it.
Bognor never worked fo me because of the two rooms being in different buildings.

I dont think the BIG weekender market has reached saturation point yet
peter

stewart38
17th-November-2005, 12:41 PM
Not sure if this you are right
Camber was sold out, Storm is nearly sold out I hear - no more single ladies can book
Southport is a long drive north for many
so if you cannot get into Storm next year where will you go...............

As long as there are good quality weekenders out there more and more dancers will be interested, If the likes of Storm are booked dancers will look for other events, even if the format/standard/cost is different

Irrespective of the music, teaching etc the big attraction of the weekender is a crowd of happy enthusiastic dancers - this always seems to happen at Camber, no matter who organises it.
Bognor never worked fo me because of the two rooms being in different buildings.

I dont think the BIG weekender market has reached saturation point yet
peter


This is a very good point

Storm i here has now sold out so where do all those extra ladies go ?? Camber May 2005 ?

If market for weekenders have say 15% more women. simple solution based on sound micro or is macro economics its been a long time since I did my degree

Increase the price for the ladies by 10% and drop the price for the men by 10% :whistle:

more and more weekenders wont address any imbalance.

If you force the numbers to 50/50 other women who want to go will miss out :sad:

Lynn
17th-November-2005, 12:43 PM
Increase the price for the ladies by 10% and drop the price for the men by 10% :whistle: Oi! Some of us are on a tight enough budget as it is!


If you force the numbers to 50/50 other women who want to go will miss out :sad: Maybe some women will miss out on going to as many weekenders as guys but those who really want to go will make sure they book on time.

Paul F
17th-November-2005, 12:57 PM
As far as I can see STORM was always going to sell out quick because of Ceroc's advertising potential. Im sure they will have plugged it in every beginner and intermediate class in the country.
A lot of the people who heard these plugs wouldnt have even known a weekender existed !
The only way I can see STORM not succeeding year on year is for the people who go to talk amongst themselves about how much better weekender X is. As there are no weekenders out there that are similar in structure to STORM and provide substantially more then STORM will always sell out. Lets face it, Southport, Camber, Bognor and STORM all provide a pretty similar weekend of dancing and workshops. Until someone creates one that simply dazzles the opposition then people wont be compelled to talk amongst themselves !

LMC
17th-November-2005, 01:04 PM
Maybe some women will miss out on going to as many weekenders as guys but those who really want to go will make sure they book on time.
:yeah:

Unless regulated, most MJ events have more women than men. I whine about it just as much - if not more - than others, but "fair" or not, that's the way it is and we just have to deal with it :shrug: - I remembered the comments about the extra women from Camber in May, and despite being, er, outgoing, I don't like stalking men either - so I voted with my feet for November, no regrets and wasn't missed.

I have much less experience of weekenders than most on here, but agree with Lory - and since I don't know about any other things I will pick & choose on the basis of a) cost and b) whether gender balance is regulated.

David Bailey
17th-November-2005, 01:04 PM
Until someone creates one that simply dazzles the opposition then people wont be compelled to talk amongst themselves !
So, no pressure there, then Minnie :)

DavidB
17th-November-2005, 01:07 PM
Camber cannot continue in its current form. By next year the competition hopefully will be too stiff.I've heard this several times in the past. When Rock Bottoms started. When Southport started. When Rebel Roc started. And yet Camber hardly changes and keeps selling out.

There are a lot of people who don't go to Camber any more (like myself). But there is not a shortage of dancers who want to go in their place. And there are plenty of comments about the standard of dancing improving every year, so there is hardly the dancing equivalent of a 'brain drain' happening.

There are also a lot of regulars. Camber is the highlight of the year for some people.


balanced numbers, daytime freestyling, free water, really chilled music in the blues room.Balanced numbers is a problem almost everywhere, and I know it puts some ladies off going dancing completely, never mind Camber.

Daytime freestyling? That would be my absolute lowest priority at a dance weekender. I'm either asleep, or virtually unable to walk. The risk of being asked to dance would actually keep me away from the venue.

The Blues room is always in the smallest hall because it is a minority interest. Focussing the style of music even tighter would make it more of a minority interest. Not everyone likes blues.

Zebra Woman
17th-November-2005, 01:11 PM
Not sure if this you are right
Camber was sold out, Storm is nearly sold out I hear - no more single ladies can book
Southport is a long drive north for many
so if you cannot get into Storm next year where will you go...............

As long as there are good quality weekenders out there more and more dancers will be interested, If the likes of Storm are booked dancers will look for other events, even if the format/standard/cost is different

Irrespective of the music, teaching etc the big attraction of the weekender is a crowd of happy enthusiastic dancers - this always seems to happen at Camber, no matter who organises it.
Bognor never worked fo me because of the two rooms being in different buildings.

I dont think the BIG weekender market has reached saturation point yet
peter

Yes there will always be female late-comers and first timers but word gets around, and if Storm can get it right I think it will attract all those frustrated males and females who want the kind of atmosphere that can only be generated when the numbers are close to even. I can think of at least 50 friends who will now choose gender balanced weekenders over uncontrolled numbers, and they are not worried about the longer drive. It is worth it.


IMO Even numbers mean:

You can usually get a dance with a person without having to break any etiquette rules. ie. everyone has time to thank and finish interacting with their partner before a new one butts in.

A woman will ask a man to dance because they want to dance with them, not because they have sat out for 5 tracks and are desperate to dance with anyone they can get just to keep warm.

A man can leave the dancefloor and get a drink/new partner unhindered.

Men don't have to hide to rest.

As a woman when you're having a dreamy group of 3 or 4 dances on the trot you can look around and see everyone is dancing, as opposed to the massive queue of women watching and waiting. No guilt.

Dance floor rage is minimised.

The incidents where the womens' approach on the male looks like a mass rugby tackle (and then he has to decide which of the five got there first :sick: ) are rarer.

The dances are better because the men are doing the asking some of the time, more chance of getting the right person for the song.

The men aren't so tired and sweaty.

The men can sit out the tracks they don't like and easily get back to a woman who has asked them (if they want to).

There is more space to dance without 3 layers of waiting women around the edge.

We don't have to worry about the welfare of our female friends, they are more likely to be dancing their socks off, not sitting feeling jealous of the dancing women.


Obviously all these things happen at weekenders where the numbers are balanced too, but in my experience it's not so bad. Plus later on in the evening more women seem to drop out so the blues room becomes even more even. :clap:

Lynn
17th-November-2005, 01:16 PM
Unless regulated, most MJ events have more women than men. I whine about it just as much - if not more - than others, but "fair" or not, that's the way it is and we just have to deal with it :shrug: - I remembered the comments about the extra women from Camber in May, and despite being, er, outgoing, I don't like stalking men either - so I voted with my feet for November, no regrets and wasn't missed. I'll admit I was concerned about the balance but I didn't really notice that I was getting that many less dances than any other weekender, or have to do any more asking than usual. I know that in part this was down to forum men making an effort to ask :hug:

I don't feel that I have to dance every track at a weekender, or get disappointed when I miss dancing to a track I like, because I know there are hours and hours more dancing ahead, or I have been there for hours and am enjoying sitting out and watching. I'm an easily pleased sort of gal!

Lynn
17th-November-2005, 01:20 PM
IMO Even numbers mean: - Lots of very good points :yeah:

Much prefer gender balanced weekenders, being a shy wee thing, but several things I hadn't really thought about in that list.

Also would be nice if guys are asking me to dance because they want to dance with me, not just because I'm standing around looking like I want to be asked!

tsh
17th-November-2005, 01:26 PM
There are a lot of people who don't go to Camber any more (like myself). But there is not a shortage of dancers who want to go in their place. And there are plenty of comments about the standard of dancing improving every year, so there is hardly the dancing equivalent of a 'brain drain' happening.


Last year, I started dancing and went to one weekender. This year, I've been to 3. Already have 2 booked for next year.

Some people chose different weekenders for their particular features, but most people there probably don't care much. They're a little more interested in their dancing than the average ceroc night group, but some of them don't even dance regularly (due to availibility of local classes for example).

Now that ceroc are pushing the idea of weekenders hard (display poster on stage last night), there will be even more people looking to book. Hopefully, this will make it easier for organisers to run more diferentiated events targetting slightly different groups of people - and we'll all be happy.

Sean

Russell Saxby
17th-November-2005, 01:28 PM
Men don't have to hide to rest.

I was trying very hard to pace myself, back was giving me gip as said already.

On Saturday night I was sat albeit on the edge of the dance floor, with jacket on and rucksack on my lap - an obvious signal (IMO) that I am not dancing / having a rest. I said to MSFAB (sat next to me) if this doesn't work nothing will. A minute later and I was pounced upon :sad:

Sunday night I had 3 or 4 ladies lined up at one point, and trying hard not to dissappoint any of them - I really fancied a rest but carried on, apologies if my dancing was lacklustre

Give me even numbers any day

Russell

Zebra Woman
17th-November-2005, 01:30 PM
:yeah:

Much prefer gender balanced weekenders, being a shy wee thing, but several things I hadn't really thought about in that list.

Also would be nice if guys are asking me to dance because they want to dance with me, not just because I'm standing around looking like I want to be asked!

Oh yes Lynn, add that one to the list.


Waiting women being asked to dance out of pity ::really: .

Ugh

robd
17th-November-2005, 01:31 PM
I'll admit I was concerned about the balance but I didn't really notice that I was getting that many less dances than any other weekender, or have to do any more asking than usual. I know that in part this was down to forum men making an effort to ask :hug:


My experience was that downstairs, whilst still female dominated, was a little more even than upstairs and I recall seeing you downstairs much more frequently than up. I did dance with you in the early hours of Sunday (I think)morning but as name badges were a thing of the past at that point you wouldn't have known it was me.

Robert

Russell Saxby
17th-November-2005, 01:35 PM
-Getting home to find the Born to Run 30th Anniversary Edition box set waiting for me.

Thanks for the rep, but you never said who you are?

I will def be up for it

Lynn
17th-November-2005, 01:37 PM
On Saturday night I was sat albeit on the edge of the dance floor, with jacket on and rucksack on my lap - an obvious signal (IMO) that I am not dancing / having a rest. I said to MSFAB (sat next to me) if this doesn't work nothing will. A minute later and I was pounced upon :sad: :really: That's just not fair. No-one needs to dance that much that they pounce on someone clearly not wanting to dance at that moment.

Zebra Woman
17th-November-2005, 01:38 PM
If you force the numbers to 50/50 other women who want to go will miss out :sad:

If you allow 1000 women and 500 men on a weekender then 50% of the women do miss out!

Plus they have paid &#163;100 and driven X miles to be there. :tears:

I would rather miss out fully and stay at home,saving 8 hours driving and &#163;100 (plus &#163;40 on fuel) :grin: .

Lynn
17th-November-2005, 01:40 PM
My experience was that downstairs, whilst still female dominated, was a little more even than upstairs and I recall seeing you downstairs much more frequently than up. I did dance with you in the early hours of Sunday (I think)morning but as name badges were a thing of the past at that point you wouldn't have known it was me.

Robert Thank you! :hug: (No, don't know which one you were, sorry! :blush: ) Yes, I was downstairs lot more, because of the music mainly. I only tended to go upstairs for a couple of dances and then head back down again.

TheTramp
17th-November-2005, 01:41 PM
Daytime freestyling? That would be my absolute lowest priority at a dance weekender. I'm either asleep, or virtually unable to walk. The risk of being asked to dance would actually keep me away from the venue.

The Blues room is always in the smallest hall because it is a minority interest. Focussing the style of music even tighter would make it more of a minority interest. Not everyone likes blues.

Nice to hear the opposing views!

I like the T-Dance room. Had some great dances in there on Saturday. Was too tired to go in there on Sunday though. But it's nice to have the choice!

I'm afraid that I also don't want a blues room that plays non-stop slow swing music. For me, variety is the key. I like a variety of blues-type music too, not just the "lounge" tracks. Stuff with attitude, or the 'fun' type (Friday 13th, I want to be loved by you, Big Spender etc.) blues.

Although, I will agree that there was probably too much in the other direction at the wrong times at Camber (especially the last set on Saturday when I really did want some blues music - sorry John).

Paul F
17th-November-2005, 01:45 PM
On Saturday night I was sat albeit on the edge of the dance floor, with jacket on and rucksack on my lap - an obvious signal (IMO) that I am not dancing / having a rest. I said to MSFAB (sat next to me) if this doesn't work nothing will. A minute later and I was pounced upon :sad:
Russell

I know exactly what you mean, apart from the lades queueing up that is :sad: .
It got to the point where I ended up standing right at the back near the entry to the DJ booth just to have a break. Not a nice feeling. Would love even numbers.

Sheppy
17th-November-2005, 01:50 PM
If you allow 1000 women and 500 men on a weekender then 50% of the women do miss out!

Plus they have paid £100 and driven X miles to be there. :tears:

I would rather miss out fully and stay at home,saving 8 hours driving and £100 (plus £40 on fuel) :grin: .

And you could have gone dancing locally too... :clap:
I certainly missed a good one on Friday night :tears:

Lee
17th-November-2005, 02:33 PM
The Super Good :grin:

Being Re-united with/dancing with the Clapham Crew on Saturday & Sunday night....such a lovely bunch of people!:


Yes we are a lovely bunch :flower: :hug:

Lee
I'm blonde, what's your excuse?
Copyright ‘LMC’

Lee
17th-November-2005, 02:39 PM
:flower: :flower: thank you!! missed being there too :sad::hug: :hug:

:tears: :hug:

Oh well, there's always next time:

:clap:
Jan Bognor – 13th -16th Jan 2006 www.jivetime.co.uk
Feb Scarborough - 3rd – 6th Feb 2006 www.jiveaddiction.com
Mar Camber - 3rd - 6th Mar 2006 www.ceroc.com/storm
May Camber – 5th – 8th May 2006 www.jivetime.co.uk
June Southport – 2nd – 5th June 2006 www.jiveaddiction.com
July 2006 MJC www.monsterjivecocktail.co.uk
Sept Southport 15th – 18th Sept 2006 www.jiveaddiction.com
Nov 2006 - Camber www.jivetime.co.uk
:clap:

Lee
I'm blonde, what's your excuse?
Copyright ‘LMC’

Lee
17th-November-2005, 02:42 PM
Sorry we didn't get to meet Lee, for that promised dance. I'll blame Riaz!

:whistle: :yeah: :rofl:

Ickle Chick'n
17th-November-2005, 11:38 PM
Yay, body nearly recovered!!! Right... (not much to add to what has already been said but... :clap:)

Good
Absolutely wicked weekend, so many lovely dances and gorgeous men! (To dance with of course... :wink:)

Fab challet mates who kept me giggling all weekend, specially after sleep deprevation!

Meeting new people as well as meeting up with those I don't get to see much, lovely london guys etc.

Music downstairs Saturday, except fast swingy moments cos they just don't work for me, and music upstairs Sunday until it shut, then great stuff downstairs!

Wearing all white under UV, not supposed to be good but made me stand out to be asked for dances when I'm sooo shy! :blush:

Bad
Spending all weekend plucking up the courage to ask one blokey, aparently forumite, to dance and being beaten to it by speedy girlie then not seeing him to ask again!!! :sad: He did say he'd try catch me later so I might be braver next time!

Not knowing about the labels thing for forumites until the end of the night! (Therefore still not knowing who all these mystery screen names belong to and no Dizzy to introduce me!)

Not finding a whole heap of great guys until Sunday night and trying to cram in loads of dances with them before I ran out of time given that I won't see them again for ages! (And without appearing stalkerish and getting on people's nerves for asking them too much like some guys did to me, though flattered they liked dancing with me!)

Extended floor, too many lumps to trip on and too sticky til they put talc down on Sunday night!!!

Ugly
Lack of sleep and finding time to pack in 2 hour between getting into bed and leaving!!!

Can't fault the weekend too much, agree on the music front with others but still had a brill time and can't wait til the next dances I get to, can't do Camber etc next year cos don't have the hol!!! :tears:

Thanks to all who made it a lovely weekend. :kiss:

Minnie M
17th-November-2005, 11:44 PM
Message from Franco :-


Early next week I shall be posting a reply to the various questions raised on the forum after the recent Camber event. I will not be able to visit the forum now until next week and so if anyone has any other question/s (over and above those already tabled in this specific thread relating to the event just gone) for which they would want to obtain a public reply, could you please ask them to submit the question to me by e-mailing me on jive@jivetime.co.uk not later than 17.00 hours this Saturday 19 November.

Lory
18th-November-2005, 01:02 AM
IMO Even numbers mean:

You can usually get a dance with a person without having to break any etiquette rules. ie. everyone has time to thank and finish interacting with their partner before a new one butts in.

A woman will ask a man to dance because they want to dance with them, not because they have sat out for 5 tracks and are desperate to dance with anyone they can get just to keep warm.

A man can leave the dancefloor and get a drink/new partner unhindered.

Men don't have to hide to rest.

As a woman when you're having a dreamy group of 3 or 4 dances on the trot you can look around and see everyone is dancing, as opposed to the massive queue of women watching and waiting. No guilt.

Dance floor rage is minimised.

The incidents where the womens' approach on the male looks like a mass rugby tackle (and then he has to decide which of the five got there first :sick: ) are rarer.

The dances are better because the men are doing the asking some of the time, more chance of getting the right person for the song.

The men aren't so tired and sweaty.

The men can sit out the tracks they don't like and easily get back to a woman who has asked them (if they want to).

There is more space to dance without 3 layers of waiting women around the edge.

We don't have to worry about the welfare of our female friends, they are more likely to be dancing their socks off, not sitting feeling jealous of the dancing women.



:yeah: :worthy: Well earnt rep for this post my friend! :cheers: :hug:

Missy D
18th-November-2005, 10:00 AM
I hardly saw Spice & Easy at the weekend, and so never got to meet any of the forumites :really: , hey ho there's always next time. I was in a large group from Clapham anyway so i wasn't on my own.

Great weekend :clap: as expected apart from the heat & cramped conditions on the floor until 2am each night :mad: , and wasn't impressed with the cabaret on sat night :eek: :angry: ?

:cheers: :cheers:

Lee
I'm blonde, what's your excuse?
Copyright ‘LMC’

Silverfox pointed you out on the dancefloor but that is as far as me and Dee got to meeting you. Dee was sporting a pink low cut sparkly beaded dress. She has blonde hair and huge boobs (the hair not being on her boobs). I was wearing a short skirt and bra top red with sparkly beads too. My boobs not being a prominent as Dees double ds or Minnies triple fs.

Well I see you live on the outskirts of London so am sure we will run into each other soon. Mind you if I am with Dee you might regret it. :rofl: :rofl:

WittyBird
18th-November-2005, 10:04 AM
Mind you if I am with Dee you might regret it. :rofl: :rofl:

:yeah: Just might regret it??? :rofl:

Missy D
18th-November-2005, 10:13 AM
:yeah: Just might regret it??? :rofl:


Ah yes Lee and if I am with Witty and Dee run or brace yourself for some real tone lowering.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Swinging bee
18th-November-2005, 10:24 AM
[
Although, I will agree that there was probably too much in the other direction at the wrong times at Camber (especially the last set on Saturday when I really did want some blues music - sorry John).[/QUOTE]




No offence taken. did have quite a bit of slow blues earmarked ,but the influx of the "upstairs lot" seemed to change the atmosphere and what was required. maybe I read the floor wrong ! ( It Happens) ..However on the last track at 6.05 am there were about 100 People still dancing their socks off ! This was a difficult period to judge from other years ...But Hey! we learn from our mistakes.... Appologies..John F:flower:

TheTramp
18th-November-2005, 10:49 AM
No offence taken. did have quite a bit of slow blues earmarked ,but the influx of the "upstairs lot" seemed to change the atmosphere and what was required. maybe I read the floor wrong ! ( It Happens) ..However on the last track at 6.05 am there were about 100 People still dancing their socks off ! This was a difficult period to judge from other years ...But Hey! we learn from our mistakes.... Appologies..John F:flower:

It was interesting. I quite agree, there were a number of people dancing.

I had a conversation (at the time) with a friend about it. And she put forward pretty much the same point that you did - about the people coming down from upstairs who wouldn't necessarily have wanted blues music, and preferred to dance to the faster tracks.

I didn't really have an answer at the time, but thinking about it, my answer would be that there would have been a number (quite possibly not 100 people) who would have wanted blues at the end of a night, and would have been waiting for that all night.

So, the people coming down from upstairs would have had the type of music that they wanted while upstairs. And then got the faster music that they might have wanted while downstairs. But overall on the night, the people who wanted some more bluesy music didn't get what they wanted at all.

I've probably not explained that very well - it was easier putting it across verbally. I hope that you understand what I'm trying to say.

Anyhow, I do of course totally accept that this is my opinion, and it might not be the same as other people. I did enjoy your set - and if it had been earlier in the evening, would have been saying so. No apologies required btw. You do (and did) play some great music.

Paul F
18th-November-2005, 10:58 AM
No offence taken. did have quite a bit of slow blues earmarked ,but the influx of the "upstairs lot" seemed to change the atmosphere and what was required. maybe I read the floor wrong ! ( It Happens) ..However on the last track at 6.05 am there were about 100 People still dancing their socks off ! This was a difficult period to judge from other years ...But Hey! we learn from our mistakes.... Appologies..John F:flower:

I remember you mentioning the numbers to me on the Saturday night. I was shocked!
I can definately undertand your reasonings for playing the tracks you played (although i had gone to bed but , shhhh!, dont tell anyone :wink: ). I wouldn't have liked it myself as I like blues but credit for adapting your playlist based on the majority of people on the floor.
I think what is lacking here is a directive from the organiser. In my little world a blues room goes on later than most simply because it is a chilled wind-down, if you like, from the earlier stuff. Perhaps, if they agree, the management need to make this a directive so that the DJs dont have to make the choice.
From the ones I heard when not sleeping your sets were excellent last weekend. :cheers:

Lynn
18th-November-2005, 11:08 AM
I didn't really have an answer at the time, but thinking about it, my answer would be that there would have been a number (quite possibly not 100 people) who would have wanted blues at the end of a night, and would have been waiting for that all night.

So, the people coming down from upstairs would have had the type of music that they wanted while upstairs. And then got the faster music that they might have wanted while downstairs. But overall on the night, the people who wanted some more bluesy music didn't get what they wanted at all. I agree with this, I was one of the ones waiting for bluesy tracks, and there were some so I wouldn't say I didn't get what I wanted at all, but maybe not as much as I wanted. I like the last set of a weekender to be really chilled.

(OK, maybe not as many as the upstairs lot who came down would have danced as much, but I think some didn't seem to realise that the music was different anyway. I certainly know one guy asked me up for a lovely bluesy track and danced the entire track as if it was a pop song, it didn't fit and it wasn't a good dance.)

Swinging bee
18th-November-2005, 11:21 AM
Re our saturday set....

Your candid and informed opinions are vallued and we take note for future reference.
Lin and I care passionately about our music and always try to play our very best music sets wherever we go. Preparation being the key word .. we never turn up and just play what we think is right All the factors are taken into consideration beforehand. These do sometimes get altered as needs must. that is the difficult bit!

he music scene is constantly changing and we are always searching for new music to meet the current trends...ANY feedback is good whether positive or negative (which does not offend but makes us try even harder)

So keep them coming and you will hear what you desire! John F and LIn

Look forward to seeing you on a dance floor somewhere, sometime.

spindr
18th-November-2005, 12:18 PM
Not quite sure why the DJs are taking so much grief -- especially if their tailored sets can keep ~100 people on the floor until 6am, they must be doing something well :)

If you're keen that DJ sets match their description, then I think that it's only fair that the teacher's classes should match them as well.

Paul's Advanced WCS which became "cool moves" was great -- but I wouldn't have necessarily considered the basic moves as "cool" per se -- but then again Paul makes them look cool too :)

Viktor's salsa classes were supposed to be intermediate (at least if the "no level specified then it's intermediate" clause applies) -- no way was the first one even an improvers level (missed the second one).

Amir's smooth class was listed as having spins as a key ingredient -- but there didn't seem to be more than a minute or two spent on spinning. Plus, the lean/drop that wasn't advertised to any great extent -- meant that there was then another lady moving round.

But the classes were great and probably tailored to those attending -- so if teachers can get away with it -- then why can't the DJs?

SpinDr.

Lounge Lizard
18th-November-2005, 12:22 PM
I think what is lacking here is a directive from the organiser. In my little world a blues room goes on later than most simply because it is a chilled wind-down, if you like, from the earlier stuff. Perhaps, if they agree, the management need to make this a directive so that the DJs dont have to make the choice. sorry I disagree - I have never known any organiser to dictate the music we play other than swing/blues or music for WCS dancers
It is then left to the DJ to keep the crowd happy

it is a lot easier to go up to the DJ and ask for a change in tempo or style (more Latin etc.) than pre plan a set.
however if it says swing n blues it is the DJ's job to make sure the night is balanced with Swing & Blues

It is not uncommon in a swing/blues room to have two dancers approach the DJ, the first ask's for faster music, the second asks for slower music.
My personal opinion is that slow blues works better towards the end of the night (apart from swingin the blues) but fast swing works throughout the night, so the later it gets the slower the music gets.

I would rather get a complaint that dancers went home at 4.30am after 6+ hours of dancing because the music was to slow than they waited till 6am and got hardly any slow music - but with a if the dance floor is still busy at 5am with a certain style/tempo of music the DJ could be reluctant to change things unless he gets direct feedback - Talk to the DJ at the time not after the event, we don't bite (well we do but the wounds heal up within a few days!)
Peter

Paul F
18th-November-2005, 01:07 PM
sorry I disagree - I have never known any organiser to dictate the music we play other than swing/blues or music for WCS dancers
It is then left to the DJ to keep the crowd happy


I see where you're coming from. The reason I suggested it was to avoid the potential backlash against the DJs from the people leaving the main hall and coming into the blues room. If, and its only if, the consensus of opinion suggested slowing things down for the last 2 hours then surely the organiser putting something to that effect on the programme could only help the DJs couldnt it? At least everyone would know what to expect.

Lynn
18th-November-2005, 01:19 PM
Viktor's salsa classes were supposed to be intermediate (at least if the "no level specified then it's intermediate" clause applies) -- no way was the first one even an improvers level (missed the second one). I wasn't at the first one, but at the second one there were clearly folk who were fairly beginner at salsa so maybe he was pitching it at a level that suited the majority in the class? (I would think that most non-MJ dance styles are more of a beginner or taster level at dance weekenders anyway). The second class was I would say improver level. To be honest I really wanted a few salsa dances, not too fussed about doing the classes as I can do those here, in the end I got one on the Sun night. (Thanks KGD!)

Sylph
18th-November-2005, 02:59 PM
If, and its only if, the consensus of opinion suggested slowing things down for the last 2 hours then surely the organiser putting something to that effect on the programme could only help the DJs couldnt it? At least everyone would know what to expect.

It would be useful to get a poll going on this question, wouldn't it?

For my part I was very disappointed on some evenings that the music got faster again after 4am and unnecessarily hastened my departure :tears:

David Bailey
18th-November-2005, 03:06 PM
I wasn't at the first one, but at the second one there were clearly folk who were fairly beginner at salsa so maybe he was pitching it at a level that suited the majority in the class? (I would think that most non-MJ dance styles are more of a beginner or taster level at dance weekenders anyway).
I assumed the salsa class would be basic beginner level, a few mambos, maybe some turns, that sort of thing - was that right?

I'd have liked to come, for the class and the freestyle, but I was stuck in the Traffic Jam From Hell for 2 hours at that point :tears:

Minnie M
18th-November-2005, 03:13 PM
The only 'last set' I made it to over the weekend was Sunday - Nelson Rose was the DJ for this last set - I thought it was perfect, only the last two or three tracks where really really slow (blues dancing or messabout only) the rest were WCS tempo - brilliant :worthy:

Personally I do NOT like blues dancing, too UCP for me. so 2 hours mostly at that tempo would scare me off :sad:

It must be difficult for the DJ to know at that hour if the dancers are too tired to dance (and go to bed) or just waiting for something slightly faster :what:

Limpy Tink
18th-November-2005, 03:30 PM
Mind you if I am with Dee you might regret it. :rofl: :rofl:

They would eat you alive Lee!!! :eek:

I LMAO when the girls pulled up chairs on the edge of the dance floor (Approx 50cm away) whilst myself & SilverFox were doing Nigel & Nina's class (It was not my a*$e wiggling they were videoing... :rofl:

...also KGD has some very explicite footage :what: in his phone of "the girls" in action. SilverFox's part was minimal :whistle: - he just had to sit with one of the girls on the chair behind him and the other on his lap, whilst they...erm...had a good time (tough job hey Vincey!!! :rofl: )

... oh and girls... did you ever manage to hold on to those slippery keys of yours? :D (Who needs body rippling exercises, when you just have to pick your keys up off the floor each time they slip out of your fingers - and it def helps to have a "Fox" lazing around to help you on the way up - when tired!! :rofl:

So my advice Lee... If you have already changed out or your trainers and have nowhere to run... make sure someone has a camera ready :wink:

PS. Fab outfits by the way girls.

David Bailey
18th-November-2005, 03:38 PM
It must be difficult for the DJ to know at that hour if the dancers are too tired to dance (and go to bed) or just waiting for something slightly faster :what:
I like slower-tempo dancing as the evening wears on - OK, I always like slower-tempo dancing anyway...

But there's a good counter-argument; at 5am in the morning, the last thing you may want to do is play a "sleepy" set, 'coz people will, well, go to sleep. So you may want to keep them going, get them moving, adrenaline pumping etc., and play fast music for that purpose specifically at the end.

I dunno, in other words.

Missy D
18th-November-2005, 08:37 PM
They would eat you alive Lee!!! :eek:

I LMAO when the girls pulled up chairs on the edge of the dance floor (Approx 50cm away) whilst myself & SilverFox were doing Nigel & Nina's class (It was not my a*$e wiggling they were videoing... :rofl:

...also KGD has some very explicite footage :what: in his phone of "the girls" in action. SilverFox's part was minimal :whistle: - he just had to sit with one of the girls on the chair behind him and the other on his lap, whilst they...erm...had a good time (tough job hey Vincey!!! :rofl: )

... oh and girls... did you ever manage to hold on to those slippery keys of yours? :D (Who needs body rippling exercises, when you just have to pick your keys up off the floor each time they slip out of your fingers - and it def helps to have a "Fox" lazing around to help you on the way up - when tired!! :rofl:

So my advice Lee... If you have already changed out or your trainers and have nowhere to run... make sure someone has a camera ready :wink:

PS. Fab outfits by the way girls.


Brilliant! I didnt think anyone had noticed!:rofl: :rofl:

dee
18th-November-2005, 08:45 PM
Brilliant! I didnt think anyone had noticed!:rofl: :rofl:


Oh those were the days :drool: :yum:

WittyBird
18th-November-2005, 08:47 PM
Oh those were the days :drool: :yum:


OOOh and as if by magic in walks Mrs Dyson our own regular forum mood hoover :worthy:

dee
18th-November-2005, 08:53 PM
OOOh and as if by magic in walks Mrs Dyson our own regular forum mood hoover :worthy:

You shake, i vac :rofl:

WittyBird
18th-November-2005, 08:53 PM
You shake, i vac :rofl:


at least you know your place in life luv :really:

Lynn
18th-November-2005, 11:13 PM
But there's a good counter-argument; at 5am in the morning, the last thing you may want to do is play a "sleepy" set, 'coz people will, well, go to sleep. Oh I don't know, having a 'dreamy' dance with your head on the guys shoulder and eyes closed can work well at that hour of the morning! But yes, lots of tracks like that be too much - variety is the key. But nothing really fast or only a scattering of fast, IMO anyway.

Katie
18th-November-2005, 11:16 PM
Paul's Advanced WCS which became "cool moves" was great -- but I wouldn't have necessarily considered the basic moves as "cool" per se --

But surely you can't do most 'cool' moves without knowing the basic whip which he taught? :confused:
I still haven't mastered that kick thingy! :tears:



- but then again Paul makes them look cool too :)

:yeah:

Lynn
18th-November-2005, 11:19 PM
I assumed the salsa class would be basic beginner level, a few mambos, maybe some turns, that sort of thing - was that right? I didn't make it over to the class on Sat night, and when I went in at the freestyle stage there weren't that many up dancing, and most who were, were dancing fairly basic moves. I tried to ask Viktor for a dance, but I'm way too slow! So the only salsa I did the whole weekend was a dance with KGD on Sun night.

CeeCee
19th-November-2005, 11:12 AM
Am I all alone here or has anyone else had real problems coming back down to earth after the Camber Weekender?

Admittedly there were problems but they didn't spoil my enjoyment, I had a thoroughly fantastic weekend.
It’s now Saturday and I’ve been miserable all week because I feel as though I’ve been away for ages and still need to adjust.

How sad.

The Good
Dancing and talking about dancing
Being surrounded by friends who want to dance and talk about dancing

The Bad
Shame about the lighting in the main dance hall throughout the weekend. Can’t imagine why it was so bright.

The Ugly
That feeling of helplessness in the early hours of Monday morning when I’m desperate to keep dancing but my body has given up. I just got colder and colder even though I was still dancing and my poor muscles struggled to get me back to my chalet before I collapsed in a helpless heap on the bed.

Lynn
19th-November-2005, 02:12 PM
Am I all alone here or has anyone else had real problems coming back down to earth after the Camber Weekender? No, me too! Every weekender I think I can't possibly enjoy myself as much as the last one, but I do, come home on a high and really want to go on another one!

CeeCee
19th-November-2005, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by Lynn
No, me too! Every weekender I think I can't possibly enjoy myself as much as the last one, but I do, come home on a high and really want to go on another one!

Oh Lynn, thank goodness for that, I'm glad at least someone else feels the same. After reading so many posts from people complaining about this and that I was beginning to wonder.

Great sig by the way.

Lory
20th-November-2005, 02:24 AM
Am I all alone here or has anyone else had real problems coming back down to earth after the Camber Weekender?


Your not alone :tears: :hug:

Lynn
20th-November-2005, 10:40 AM
Oh Lynn, thank goodness for that, I'm glad at least someone else feels the same. After reading so many posts from people complaining about this and that I was beginning to wonder. Yes, I had a wonderful time, can't wait for the next weekender, wish I could afford to go on all of them.

I think people (including myself at times :blush: :whistle: ) are quicker to mention what they weren't happy with. I suppose that is good in that it gives feedback for how good events can be made even better. Maybe the next weekend review should be called 'the good, the bad and the wonderful'...:flower: :whistle:

David Bailey
20th-November-2005, 11:05 AM
Maybe the next weekend review should be called 'the good, the bad and the wonderful'...:flower: :whistle:
Nah, where's the fun in that? :innocent:

CeeCee
20th-November-2005, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by Lory
Your not alone

Thanks Lory for your support, glad to hear that others feel the same.

stewart38
21st-November-2005, 11:18 AM
Am I all alone here or has anyone else had real problems coming back down to earth after the Camber Weekender?



There was another Thread about this somewhere re the Post weekender effect or is it affect ?

You are not alone

Lory
21st-November-2005, 12:02 PM
There was another Thread about this somewhere re the Post weekender effect or is it affect ?

You are not alone
The thread is HERE :nice: (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4180&highlight=post+weekender+blues)

CeeCee
21st-November-2005, 09:45 PM
Thank you Lory I've read the link and now I know what I'm suffering from, I obviously have a serious case of PWB, no point seeking medical advice, I'll just have to be strong and get over it.

Until my next weekender...

MaxBeat
22nd-November-2005, 12:30 AM
I have read with interest the various points raised within this thread and I’d like to offer my comments in return:

First of all thank you to all who supported the event and for the +ve feedback posted in this and other threads.

The Gender Balance Debate – I am not quite sure as to why a jive weekend should be different from any other jive event across the country where there is a gender unbalance with, generally, more women than men attending. I have no particular wish to see this unbalance, but I question whether it is right and lawful for me to screen people on the basis of their gender.
One of the main reasons as to why the jive community is so successful is because of its openness and freedom of movement, people meet, form friendships and look forward to meeting again at the next event. Who am I to prevent anyone attending simply because a person happens to be a woman?
Having danced both in the upper and lower venue at the recent Camber Jive Spree, I have failed to see this great unbalance. I admit that there were more women than men, but the same happens at almost every event across the country, yet I hear nobody demanding gender balance at their local club. We should all be very careful about what we wish for, to turn away someone because the event is sold out is one thing, to turn away someone because of gender is something else. It is important that all feel welcome in order to retain people within the Modern Jive circuit, moreover it might well become highly questionable to say that we are all a happy and friendly bunch if we start preventing people from attending because of their gender or other factors. Tolerance and understanding of others is what makes this a great society, not all happen to have a husband, a boyfriend or a male friend to go dancing with and as such I find wholly unfair to leave anyone out on the basis of their gender.
However, whilst the above is my moral view as a human being, my view as a business man has to be that I must provide my customers with what they require subject to the law of the land. Across the years, it has always been my understanding that it would be unlawful to operate a gender balance practice in accordance with Section 29 of the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 (as amended). I have been advised only few days ago that nothing has changed in law and that it will be unlawful for me to refuse selling tickets to women whilst continuing selling to men in order to address the gender balance at the event. However, if amongst you there is a lawyer or a law expert who might be able to find a legal loophole, then, I will re-consider my position. By the way, I have been already advised that the membership loophole does not apply, as the events are clearly sold and advertised to all (for example via the UK-Jive web site, www.uk-jive.co.uk), whether members or not.
For those of you who wish to read the aforementioned act, I can confirm that it can be accessed via the following link www.eoc.org.uk/PDF/sda.pdf
As this is quite a comprehensive and long document, might I suggest that you focus on Section 29. If you are not au fair with legal jargon, than let me re-cap the salient and relevant point of Section 29 as follows (the following is not the act, just a re-cap of the relevant section):

Discrimination in the provision of goods, facilities and services and premises
With a few exceptions, it is unlawful to discriminate directly or indirectly on grounds of sex in the provision of goods, facilities or services to the public, or a section of the public or in the disposal or management of premises. The main exceptions include:
 Discrimination by non-profit making voluntary bodies in restricting their membership to one sex or providing benefits to one sex only in accordance with their main object.
 Discrimination in the provision of facilities or services to avoid serious embarrassment to users which would be caused by the presence of members of the opposite sex.
If you wish to learn more on the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 (as amended) or you believe that a jive weekend or a jive event of any nomination might or might not be entitled to an exemption in law, then you might wish to talk to an expert, in confidence and free of charge, by ringing the Equal Opportunities Commission on 0845 – 601 5901 (local rate).

DJ Pre-made playing list – I am afraid I do not agree with this. A DJ serves a purpose and that is the reason as to why I pay money for a DJ to man the console. A good DJ will sense the floor and play accordingly. If a pre-made list was good enough, then might as well play pre-compiled cds. Not a good practice and much that I have not agreed on anything that Lounge Lizard has had to say in a very long time, I find that I am in agreement with him as far as this point is concerned and so, at least for the time being, it is unlikely that I will sanction such lists.

There were an extra 200/300 people – Not the case, albeit this time there were 12 more bookings than at any event I staged before. I have to deliver the event in accordance with the contractual numbers stipulated with Pontin’s, as such I can not bring 200 or 300 more or less people than agreed otherwise I will be in breach of contract.

The Cabaret - I agree was below par this time. Mainly because: a) All the acts that were due to appear did not appear in the end. b) James & Bridget admittedly did not shine (they are indeed well known in the swing circuit and are the organisers of the well established and respected "jumpin at the woodside" major swing event) as Bridget was unwell, a fact that I learnt after the cabaret. c) The Haka was meant to be controversial and raise feelings amongst all, but in the end did not live up to my expectations. I was expecting a bunch of hard men as seen on TV prior to a rugby match with the New Zealand team, it did not turn out to be the case and albeit some people did actually enjoy that performance, I was no doubt amongst those who did not.

The Tea Room was not advertised – Sorry but it was on the second page of every programme.

The Check-in - Check-in was advertised to be at 15.00 hours, people arrived at the Centre’s gate en mass from 13.00 hours and so I decided to allow the gate open as there was a mile long queue of cars. Everyone then began queuing in front of the reception desk well before 14.00 hours and so the queuing time increased dramatically. This was unprecedented and I suspect that people arrived early in order to get parking on Centre. From other messages within this thread, you will notice that other people reported no queuing at all after the first 2 - 3 initial critical hours. This was indeed the case, as on this occasion almost everyone opted to arrive at the same time around 13.00 to 15.00 hours. Never the less, I accept that early or not early arrival, it is my responsibility to ensure that such queue is not repeated in the future. I offer once again my public apologies and my assurance that a different procedure will be in place in the future.

Classes too early – A very difficult one to address. It is already a struggle to provide all with a good variety of classes throughout the day. No doubt that those who dance until very late at night will find the 10.00 am class too early, whilst the early risers will have no problem with the same time and indeed will have to twiddle their thumbs if they have to wait until 10.30 or 11.00 am before a class starts.

The Sticky Dance Floor – The floor, as I am sure we all noticed, has been cleaned and re-lacquered very recently. Albeit shiny in appearance, the lacquer acts as a slowing agent. Some people decided to sprinkle standard “baby white powder” on the floor, which eventually brought the floor back to life. Whilst I had early reports about the slow sticky floor from the start of the weekend, I could not have sprinkled the floor myself because it would have invalidated my insurance in case of an accident. I did call upon the official cleaner for help, he did offer to mop and re-clean the floor after the break, something that I then decided to cancel when I received reports that as a result of the aforementioned powder the floor had come back to life. Again, a difficult one to address in the future as I can only employ allowable methods such as mop and clean, which might only deliver marginal improvements.

Fast music downstairs & pop upstairs – As an organiser, it is my duty to ask my staff to play the sort of music that people want. If you read the thread from start to finish, you will find that some people are happy with the music, some people are not. Some people want fast, some people want slow, some people want just modern, some people want a bit of variation. I will no doubt discuss the matter with my head DJ, Colin Shaul, however, this is an area that is likely to forever bring different opinions amongst all as there is only one type of “food in the same venue for 1000s of different mouths”, all of us have different music tastes!

The heat – I had the blowers on and the heating off as from Friday morning and for the rest of the weekend. There are as many blowers as 240 V main outlets around the venue; some required very long extension leads in order to get power from one end to the other. We have always had a heating problem, usually more in May than November due to the different temperatures at the different time of the year. However, whilst some of you might well recall that the venues (especially upstairs) were very cold last November, this November it was totally the opposite. Once again the different external temperature does have an influence given how cold was last November and how comparatively mild the weather was this November. If heating is a paramount consideration for some people, I can only assure you that at the following event at Bognor Regis in January we have never experienced heating problems in the past in the main venue.

Coaches & Parking facilities – The Centre has adequate parking facilities most times of the year when families (mum, dad and children) holiday there. But then you might generally find one car per apartment, whereas in our case we generally have several cars per apartment, as different people within the same apartment elect to travel separately. I have offered a coach service (as stated within the information pack sent with tickets more than a month prior to the event), admittedly this was limited to a departure/return from London only, as it was meant to be a pilot scheme, but I only had 3 takers. Might I also point out that someone in this thread reminded us all that there was some selfish parking on Centre, this unfortunately was reported to me to be the case by Pontin’s own parking marshals.

Lights on for filming during freestyle & plugging the DVD – Definitely something we can improve upon. I see no reason as to why the filming can not be done during the freestyle at lunch time in natural light (so I will take advice from the experts). The plugging of the DVD, I was not aware of this becoming an annoyance nor do I believe that over plugging has any effect, in fact you would not have heard me or anyone for me plugging the next event at Bognor or at Camber in May at any time during the weekend except for the break in the cabaret. I think that the message in these instances should be one of providing information rather than an advert as such. I would like the teachers at the end of their class to remind people that their workshops will be within the official DVD. This should help minimising the number of people who then come to my desk asking whether this or that teacher’s class will be featured in the DVD. However, if the overall consensus points to the fact that even this is too much, than I will move to eliminate this altogether.

Free and/or cheap water – Since last May I have moved in this direction and as such this time the water was on sale at £ 1 per bottle, which I trust is more acceptable. With regard to free water, I seem to be receiving a number of conflicting reports from people who say that the free water was available in jugs at all times and from others who say that it was not. Please write to me with your feedback. It might well be that it was just a question of visibility, something that can be easily addressed at future events.

I believe to have covered the salient points raised within this thread, however, I apologies if I have missed out something, in which case please feel free to e-mail me, as I will be pleased to reply to you in person.
In any case, I am open to suggestions to improve on any of the above or other issues. So, please feel free to e-mail me your thoughts on jive@jivetime.co.uk
MaxBeat

Russell Saxby
22nd-November-2005, 01:56 AM
Thanks Franco for the feedback.


The Gender Balance Debate....

I am not a Lawyer and have not read the PDF file, (it is late and I think I will need a very clear head for that one) however I fail to understand how this can be discriminating.

As with these "Singles" events (those 3 minute things that I have never been on) They must have even numbers for them to work, it is not in the organisers or punters interest for there to be a disproportionate number of one sex than the other.

Surely the same must apply for dancing as well.

IMO the gender balance has (is) fast become (ing) one of the most important factors at dance events.

Can a lawyer clarify, I have been turning ladies away from our own events all year long, I dont want to get in trouble :innocent:

Parking - had I been bothered I could have car shared, I didn't it was the risk I took.

Cabaret - was not for me I went downstairs once the New Zealand thingy was under way.

Water - not readily avaiable. Was not such a problem downstairs as the bar queues were shorter. Also, it would be a help if the DJ's announced the bar was closing say 30 mins beforehand, that would give every a chance to get a drink in. Not wearing a watch I got caught out every night.

Heat - I thought the positioning of the fans was ok. I am not a lover of fans (the mechanical type that is) blowing cool air on me whilst I am on the dancefloor. The dancefloor at Camber is big enough to dance well away from the fans.

Russell

Lory
22nd-November-2005, 10:07 AM
I'm no lawyer but to me, reading section 1 of the act, it seems clear that acheiving an equal balance, is the optimum requirement? :clap:

I think the only offence might be if it were proven that the decision to have an EQUAL gender balance were to be to the 'detriment' of the woman but from what I've read and from the women I've talked to AND from personal experience, I don't believe that to be the case here? :cool:


Sex Discrimination Against Women

1. Direct and Indirect Discrimination against Women

1(1) In any circumstances relevant for the purposes of any provision of this Act, other than a provision to which subsection (2) applies, a person discriminates against a woman if:

1(1)(a) on the ground of her sex he treats her less favourably then he treats or would treat a man, or

1(1)(b) he applies to her a requirement or condition which he applies or would apply equally to a man but:

1(1)(b)(i) which is such that the proportion of women who can comply with it is considerably smaller than the proportion of men who can comply with it, and

1(1)b)(ii) which he cannot show to be justifiable irrespective of the sex of the person to whom it is applied, and

1(1)b)(iii) which is to her detriment because she cannot comply with it.

1(2) In any circumstances relevant for the purposes of a provision to which this subsection applies, a person discriminates against a woman if:

1(2)(a) on the ground of her sex, he treats her less favourably than he treats or would treat a man, or

1(2)(b) he applies to her a provision, criterion or practice which he applies or would apply equally to a man, but

1(2)(b)(i) which is such that it would be to the detriment of a considerably larger proportion of women than of men, and

8
1(2)(b)(ii) which he cannot show to be justifiable irrespective of the sex of the person to whom it is applied, and

1(2)(b)(iii) which is to her detriment

David Bailey
22nd-November-2005, 10:22 AM
The Gender Balance Debate – I am not quite sure as to why a jive weekend should be different from any other jive event across the country where there is a gender unbalance with, generally, more women than men attending.
Because at a weekender, you're kind of stuck there - at a normal jive venue, if the imbalance is intolerable, you can just leave. Also, you pay much more for a weekender than a normal event.


Who am I to prevent anyone attending simply because a person happens to be a woman?
You're the organiser. I think most organisers would say that the best events are those where people of both genders can have opportunities to do lots of dancing, and that a highly-uneven ratio can prevent those opportunities for some of the attendees.


Having danced both in the upper and lower venue at the recent Camber Jive Spree, I have failed to see this great unbalance.
Not so much downstairs, but the imbalance was very obvious upstairs, pretty much any time I wandered up there. I've no idea whether this is normal for weekenders or not, however, but I didn't find quite the same at Southport.


{ snip complex legal things }
I've no idea as to legality - but it's a good point. On the other hand, lots of other venue and weekender organisers do clearly already restrict women numbers (Greenwich, Southport, and of course Storm), so you'd have a lot of company in the dock :)

Partner dancing is one of those few areas where (PC talk aside) you generally require both a man and a woman to have a dance; two men, or two women, generally can't do the job as well. For example, I don't believe it's discriminatory to say that 100 men and 100 women would be more fit for this specific purpose than 200 men or 200 women.

Now, whether that general gender-balance-requirement can be used as an exemption to sex discrimination legislation is beyond me, but it's certainly an extremely strong arguing point.


Classes too early – A very difficult one to address. It is already a struggle to provide all with a good variety of classes throughout the day. No doubt that those who dance until very late at night will find the 10.00 am class too early, whilst the early risers will have no problem with the same time and indeed will have to twiddle their thumbs if they have to wait until 10.30 or 11.00 am before a class starts.
Yeah, you're right. For me, it was just a shame that the classes I wanted to do were all in the mornings, but that's life.


If heating is a paramount consideration for some people, I can only assure you that at the following event at Bognor Regis in January we have never experienced heating problems in the past in the main venue.
That I can believe :rofl:

Thanks for that massive and well-thought-out response, Franco. Despite all us whingers, I think we all had a great time, and thanks for organising it.

MartinHarper
22nd-November-2005, 11:48 AM
I'm not a lawyer, of course. It's interesting to read that MaxBeat say he has obtained clear legal advice on the subject, and wise people will listen to that in preference to my ill-informed internet speculation.

Section 44 of the act is interesting. It gives an exemption for some sports with a competitive element. I think this is more useful for competiton organisers than for weekenders - it could be used to bar competition access from same sex couples.
Section 29(3) is also interesting, as it talks about how the same service might be provided differently to women. Again, more useful for teachers than weekenders - it could be used to bar workshop access from male followers and/or female leaders.

I can certainly sympathise with an organiser wanting to avoid legal risk.

David Bailey
22nd-November-2005, 12:10 PM
I can certainly sympathise with an organiser wanting to avoid legal risk.
Yeah - but any legal advice will be theoretical, as (I believe) this hasn't yet been tested in the courts. And I doubt there are many lawyers specialising in partner-dance cases, but who knows...

The thing is, one can conceive of a dumb case being brought on these grounds by a woman (or for that matter a man) who felt she was discriminated against in some way.

It's not likely, but it's not impossible, and so lawyers may advise caution to avoid that sort of situation - but they're not interested in running an effective and popular event, they just want to ensure the backsides are totally covered. Finding a lawyer who is practical, that's the tricky thing.

In any business, you have to make judgements. But I'd have thought partner dancing is so overwhelmingly and clearly designed as an activity for male-female interaction, any actions to promote the maximum levels of such interactions are justifiable from a business perspective.

For example, presumably it's not sexual discrimination for a clothes manufacturer to choose female models only to model a bra range ad campaign? Most occupations are of course gender-neutral; many sports and pastimes are not - or at least, they're segregated.

Blimey, maybe I should start reading the Mail and yelling about political correctness gone mad :rolleyes:

LMC
22nd-November-2005, 12:47 PM
Blimey, maybe I should start reading the Mail and yelling about political correctness gone mad :rolleyes:
That's political correctness experiencing mental health difficulties if you don't mind.

Maybe events that aren't currently deliberately gender balanced will become so as women decide not to go.

Stewart38 has already commented on another thread that Chesham on a Monday is now usually more balanced - presumably because other women than me have voted with their feet over the last 8 weeks or more since I was there. And several of us on this thread have commented that we will select weekenders that *do* have a policy of gender balancing in preference to those who do not.

So free market forces still win out... bloody hell, maybe I should start reading the Daily Mail as well, I'm a capitalist coming out of the closet...

Lory
22nd-November-2005, 12:54 PM
I can certainly sympathise with an organiser wanting to avoid legal risk.
:yeah: BUT, am I missing something somewhere....

I can't see how allocating an EQUAL number of tickets to both men and women, can be seen as discrimination:confused:

I'm trying really hard to see 'who' might bring this to court and why:confused:

Lets look at all the different scenarios and question which person would have the motive to sue..

I'd be really interested on peoples views of who and why?

Female.. beginner/low standard of dance?
Female.. single (on the pull)?
Female.. single (not looking)?
Female.. with partner/dance partner?
Female.. advanced?
Female.. shy?
Female.. confident?
Female.. with a physical impediment?
Female.. who's gods gift to all men?
Any man?

LMC
22nd-November-2005, 12:56 PM
:yeah: BUT, am I missing something somewhere....

I can't see how allocating an EQUAL number of tickets to both men and women, can be seen as discrimination:confused:
:yeah:

I'm so glad it's not just me...

Russell Saxby
22nd-November-2005, 01:03 PM
Female.. beginner/low standard of dance?
Female.. single (on the pull)?
Female.. single (not looking)?
Female.. with partner/dance partner?
Female.. advanced?
Female.. shy?
Female.. confident?
Female.. with a physical impediment?
Female.. who's gods gift to all men?
Any man?

The obvious one you missed is

Female.. single (on the pull and looking for another female :drool: )

Even numbers would cut down on her choice :whistle:

David Bailey
22nd-November-2005, 01:13 PM
:yeah: BUT, am I missing something somewhere....

I can't see how allocating an EQUAL number of tickets to both men and women, can be seen as discrimination:confused:
In a rational world, no.

In an irrational world, some female nutter might say "Oi! There are men getting tickets, I want one, I'm being discriminated against, where's my lawyer..."

You would, of course, need to be seriously experiencing mental health challenges (thanks LMC) to do this - but it's not completely inconceivable, and so therefore should be viewed from a lawyer point-of-view as a risk. Court action is court action; it almost doesn't matter whether it's a dumb case or not.

But in reality, IMO the risk of this happening is miniscule - it's about the level of risk you run of being sued for ill-feeling by turning down a request for a dance.

Lawyers get paid to consider risks, that doesn't mean they should make your business decisions for you.

WittyBird
22nd-November-2005, 01:20 PM
"Oi! There are men getting tickets, I want one, I'm being discriminated against, where's my lawyer..."


couldn't resist, I'm bored its lunch time and I need nicotine :rofl:

stewart38
22nd-November-2005, 01:26 PM
Stewart38 has already commented on another thread that Chesham on a Monday is now usually more balanced - presumably because other women than me have voted with their feet over the last 8 weeks or more since I was there. And several of us on this thread have commented that we will select weekenders that *do* have a policy of gender balancing in preference to those who do not.

.

Market forces are a funning thing

There was a surplus of females at Camber in Nov 2005 but no where near as bad as May 2005, maybe many more just stayed away

by 2007 we will be saying where are all the ladies at weekenders :sad:

Kev F
22nd-November-2005, 01:28 PM
Without sounding stupid....

Haven't they proportioned men to women ratios for Ceroc Storm at Camber??? (I would guess that they won't be perfectly equal because I really do think there is a worldwide shortage of men dancers)

And does this mean we can take them to court????? (sounds a bit silly to me)

David Bailey
22nd-November-2005, 01:42 PM
Haven't they proportioned men to women ratios for Ceroc Storm at Camber???
Yes they have - and lots of other venues and weekenders and holidays do exactly this, all the time, and have done for ages now, all successfully, and without exploding into legal action.


And does this mean we can take them to court????? (sounds a bit silly to me)
Yep, you can take anyone to (civil) court if you want; just pay those nice lawyers over there a huge sum of money and you're away. Of course, I wouldn't rate your chances frankly. (want to make a side bet that you'd fail? :innocent: )

In other words, it shouldn't be a risk for an organiser IMO, and certainly not a major business risk, compared to the risk of running lower-quality events.

Zebra Woman
22nd-November-2005, 01:48 PM
The Gender Balance Debate – I am not quite sure as to why a jive weekend should be different from any other jive event across the country where there is a gender unbalance with, generally, more women than men attending. I have no particular wish to see this unbalance, but I question whether it is right and lawful for me to screen people on the basis of their gender.


Thanks for all the detail Franco. :flower:

IMO A jive weekender is completely different from a 'jive event' , because we are a captive audience and we have paid £100. Many women have stated they would be happier to miss out completely and stay at home rather than pay over £100 and miss out by not being able to get many dances because of the numbers.

Rather than compare yourself with 'Jive Events' Why not make your jive weekender like the other leading Modern Jive weekenders? Rock Bottoms, Southport and Storm all balance the numbers. I cannot imagine Ceroc taking such a decision lightly, surely they have checked out the legal side, and decided to go ahead and control the gender balance.

To me Camber is looking more like the exception to the rule.



One of the main reasons as to why the jive community is so successful is because of its openness and freedom of movement, people meet, form friendships and look forward to meeting again at the next event. Who am I to prevent anyone attending simply because a person happens to be a woman?


A responsible organiser who cares about everyone having a great weekend whether they are male or female perhaps?

You wouldn't be turning away people because they were a woman. You would turn away men if the male places filled up first. You would be turning away whichever sex is oversubscribed.



Having danced both in the upper and lower venue at the recent Camber Jive Spree, I have failed to see this great unbalance.


?Have you been to SpecSavers? :confused:



I admit that there were more women than men, but the same happens at almost every event across the country, yet I hear nobody demanding gender balance at their local club. We should all be very careful about what we wish for, to turn away someone because the event is sold out is one thing, to turn away someone because of gender is something else. It is important that all feel welcome in order to retain people within the Modern Jive circuit, moreover it might well become highly questionable to say that we are all a happy and friendly bunch if we start preventing people from attending because of their gender or other factors. Tolerance and understanding of others is what makes this a great society, not all happen to have a husband, a boyfriend or a male friend to go dancing with and as such I find wholly unfair to leave anyone out on the basis of their gender.


If you care about all feeling welcome Franco, then surely the actual experience at the weekender is what counts?

Personally I have given up recommmending Camber to all but the most robust and thick skinned female friends. Conversely I can recommend Southport and Rock Bottoms to relative newbies and even shy women knowing that the odds of them feeling welcome (by that we women mean getting plenty of dances) are far greater there. Camber is certainly friendly but when it comes to getting actual dances the numbers don't stack up compared to RB and SP. I dread taking a less experienced friend to Camber as I am always worried they have given up and slunk off to bed, and often they do. Sometimes you don't see the imbalance later in the evening, because so many women have just given up trying.


Across the years, it has always been my understanding that it would be unlawful to operate a gender balance practice in accordance with Section 29 of the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 (as amended). I have been advised only few days ago that nothing has changed in law and that it will be unlawful for me to refuse selling tickets to women whilst continuing selling to men in order to address the gender balance at the event.


I read Lory's excerpt of Section 21. I'm no expert but I would agree with her that maintainng EQUAL numbers for partner dancing is a justifiable reason for applying sex discrimination. And IMO it wouldn't be to the detriment of a larger proportion of women than men. The women who didn't get in will have saved £100 (and will learn to book early as they do for RB and SP). The women who did get in have more dances and do a lot less forced sitting out.

But I know nothing....
I would like to hear from the lawyers -Trampy? Katie? LindyLoo? :devil:



Fast music downstairs & pop upstairs – As an organiser, it is my duty to ask my staff to play the sort of music that people want. If you read the thread from start to finish, you will find that some people are happy with the music, some people are not. Some people want fast, some people want slow, some people want just modern, some people want a bit of variation. I will no doubt discuss the matter with my head DJ, Colin Shaul, however, this is an area that is likely to forever bring different opinions amongst all as there is only one type of “food in the same venue for 1000s of different mouths”, all of us have different music tastes!

MaxBeat

Personally I would like to have a choice...fast pop or fast swing isn't a choice for me. I would like one room to offer Blues / WCS / Slow. So there is always a choice between slow and fast music. That's just me.

ZW :flower:

Lounge Lizard
22nd-November-2005, 01:49 PM
mmmmmm
So following Maxbeat's argument (resulting from the advice given to him) if 1200 women all booked at a camber weekender event holding 1200 dancers he would, under the sex discrimination act have to accept all the bookings, this would result in say ALL women & no men at a partner dance weekender, on this basis the ladies would then (probably) have recourse to action under the trades description act because the event did not fufill the pre-requisits for partner dance weekend.....MEN
Obviously the point could work in reverse with 1200 men

Hypothetical I know but on this basis how could a sex discrimination act be taken against any organiser who had balanced numbers.

Should the balance be 50/50 - 55/45 - 60/40

It has been commented that people with vote with their feet..errr how
booking a weekender without gender balance you will not know the number ratio until you get to the event
so if ladies stop bookin into a given event because they suspect their will be an imbalance the final outcome could be men over!!!

I know these are extreem arguments, but they seem to strengthen the case for gender balance at events where the problem is known to exist

BUT

Ceroc Storm stopped taking bookings from ladies ages ago if Franco did the same then it would get harder and harder for ladies to book into weekenders. his numbers could be reduced etc. etc.

What if an organiser said ok we will not limit the gender balance to enable all to book, but we will publish on our web site the number of men & women booked at our event (updated on a monthly/weekly basis + we will if there is an excess of ladies structure our daytime classes to suit (Double trouble, Ladies styling, Shines, Belly dancing etc.
Perhaps a ladies leading ladies class (with thought out moves & routines) this could perhaps help with the imbalance in the night time dancing. - ladies comments on this idea please

If this information was published whoever booked would do it on an informed basis, plus it could encourage men to book up with any luck.
Peter

stewart38
22nd-November-2005, 02:08 PM
Market forces are a funning thing

There was a surplus of females at Camber in Nov 2005 but no where near as bad as May 2005, maybe many more just stayed away

by 2007 we will be saying where are all the ladies at weekenders :sad:


Someone +ve rep me here for being sarcastic

for once im not trying to be

10yrs ago in guildford ceroc with say 200 people you would sometimes have 40 women over, that doesnt happen much any more

Market forces are powerful

If women think there getting a crap deal they would stay away till nos even up although how long that would take for weekenders is I think a bit different

Generally men dance more then women so its best to have about 5 to 10% more women

Windsor use to have loads more ladies now i hear often more men

David Bailey
22nd-November-2005, 02:18 PM
What if an organiser said... we will if there is an excess of ladies structure our daytime classes to suit (Double trouble, Ladies styling, Shines, Belly dancing etc.
That's an excellent idea IMO - very creative. :clap:

It may not help the freestyles much, but that'd be a great way of giving extra value to women.


{ snip excellent rant, almost DavidJames-esque in my humble opinion }

?Have you been to SpecSavers? :confused:
:rofl: -> infinity and beyond.

Is it too early to nominate posts for "best comeback line" awards for the next BFG? :innocent:

MartinHarper
22nd-November-2005, 02:18 PM
For example, presumably it's not sexual discrimination for a clothes manufacturer to choose female models only to model a bra range ad campaign?

Section 7 is entitled "Exception where sex is a genuine occupational qualification". Bra models are covered under 7(2)(a): "the essential nature of the job would be materially different if carried out by a (man)".
Despite the various sections that people (including me) have brought up in this thread, I cannot see anything that would apply equally clearly to a MJ weekend.

I don't disagree with your general points about legal risk.

spindr
22nd-November-2005, 02:29 PM
*If there is a significant gender imbalance* and *if that will impact on the commercial viability of the event* then surely the obvious solution is to provide *employees* to fill in as the extra dancers (e.g. leaders). I'm fairly sure that some cruise ships do this.

SpinDr

CeeCee
22nd-November-2005, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
if 1200 women all booked at a camber weekender event holding 1200 dancers...


Crikey, that would be a nightmare

David Bailey
22nd-November-2005, 05:26 PM
Crikey, that would be a nightmare
Oh, I dunno... :whistle:

Minnie M
22nd-November-2005, 05:31 PM
This thread is confusing me .....

We seemed to have moved to the 'Gender Balance' thread ... if so, what are we talking about ..... more females to males in classes ??? or in general

I personally very rarely go to classes on MJ weekenders but love the freestyle - I believe I am not alone there as a lot of females at my level don't do the MJ classes, therefore even with balanced numbers the classes will still have an imbalance :whistle:

TA Guy
22nd-November-2005, 05:50 PM
Without Prejudice.

LOL.
Actually, I would read it the other way.
You are providing facilities and services to ladies and men. You are accepting the same money for ladies as men. Yet not providing ladies with as many partners.
Or to put it another way, not providing the same service. Worse than that, not making any attempt to provide the same service. That is discrimination against the ladies. You are providing a lesser service.
In court, I suspect a powerful argument would be made that anyone persuing this policy does so on the grounds of profit. I would say that's a more clear cut case of sex discrimination for material gain. Ouch.

Will
23rd-November-2005, 03:16 AM
So if it's sex descrimination to prevent either guys or girls from booking on a weekender, does that mean that Kate's up-coming Ladies Style workshop is technically going to be illegal too? If so, can she get any insurance against being sued?
.
.
.
.
.
If so, I'll sue her myself!

WittyBird
23rd-November-2005, 09:35 AM
Without Prejudice.

LOL.
Actually, I would read it the other way.
You are providing facilities and services to ladies and men. You are accepting the same money for ladies as men. Yet not providing ladies with as many partners.
Or to put it another way, not providing the same service. Worse than that, not making any attempt to provide the same service. That is discrimination against the ladies. You are providing a lesser service.
In court, I suspect a powerful argument would be made that anyone persuing this policy does so on the grounds of profit. I would say that's a more clear cut case of sex discrimination for material gain. Ouch.

HHHmmmmm :grin: - quickly phones sister

*please note... WB is suffering with bird flu - symptons are moaning and whining a lot, talking absolute b0ll0ck$ and trouble parking the car*

TheTramp
23rd-November-2005, 11:25 AM
I would like to hear from the lawyers -Trampy?

Well. I'm not really a lawyer. (Just a beginner?? :devil: ).

However, I've read the statute which has been cited. Which says:


(1) It is unlawful for any person concerned with the provision (for payment or not) of goods, facilities or services to the public or a section of the public to discriminate against a woman who seeks to obtain or use those goods, facilities or services--
(a) by refusing or deliberately omitting to provide her with any of them, or
(b) by refusing or deliberately omitting to provide her with goods, facilities or services of the like quality, in the like manner and on the like terms as are normal in his case in relation to male members of the public or (where she belongs to a section of the public) to male members of that section.

Section 29(1)(b) suggests to me that it would be fine to make equal numbers (ie. like manner and on the like terms) of tickets for males and females available at the start, and once all the female tickets have been sold, to inform females that there are no more available, while still selling them to males.

As Mr. Harper has said, Section 29(3) might also provide a remedy:

(3) For the avoidance of doubt it is hereby declared that where a particular skill is commonly exercised in a different way for men and for women it does not contravene subsection (1) for a person who does not normally exercise it for women to insist on exercising it for a woman only in accordance with his normal practice or, if he reasonably considers it impracticable to do that in her case, to refuse or deliberately omit to exercise it.
If you can claim that the skill of leading is normally exercised by men, which I think would be a fair claim - even the ladies who do lead would still normally dance more times as a follow in any particular evening I believe - then that would mean that Section 29(1) wouldn't apply in any case.

As has been said by other people, until a case comes to court, and has been ruled upon, then there is no definitive answer anyhow. It's just a question of interpretation, and if there was never 2 lawyers who believed different things, then nothing would ever go to court (apart from the lawyers need to make a honest living :whistle: ).

I also believe that it's very unlikely that anyone would ever waste their time by bringing such a suit anyhow. We're not in America. Yet!

DavidB
23rd-November-2005, 12:28 PM
I also believe that it's very unlikely that anyone would ever waste their time by bringing such a suit anyhow.Probably not. But they might complain to their local council if an event was run in a town hall.

jacksondonut
23rd-November-2005, 12:37 PM
Can't believe I forgot to thank to my MK stalkers!! You know who you are and look forward to repeating the experience at future weekenders:hug: :hug:

MK Stalkers are looking forward to the experience also!! Thanks for being such an willing victim....

:hug: :hug: :hug:

Sheppy
23rd-November-2005, 02:46 PM
There were an extra 200/300 people – Not the case, albeit this time there were 12 more bookings than at any event I staged before. I have to deliver the event in accordance with the contractual numbers stipulated with Pontin’s, as such I can not bring 200 or 300 more or less people than agreed otherwise I will be in breach of contract.
MaxBeat
So are you saying all your events are this crowded? :whistle:

spindr
24th-November-2005, 01:16 AM
So are you saying all your events are this crowded? :whistle:
I think there's a whole set of irregular verbs:

My events are popular
Your events are cosy
His/her events are crowded

My events have room to dance
Your events have breathing room
His/her events are unpopular

My games console is sold out
Your games console is experiencing manufacturing delays
His/her games console is unavailable

SpinDr.

Lee
24th-November-2005, 04:07 PM
Ah yes Lee and if I am with Witty and Dee run or brace yourself for some real tone lowering.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:eek: :really:

Lee
24th-November-2005, 04:12 PM
So my advice Lee... If you have already changed out or your trainers and have nowhere to run... make sure someone has a camera ready :wink:


Limpy Tink

I'm not sure if i understand this? :confused:

Lee

Lee
24th-November-2005, 04:35 PM
Across the years, it has always been my understanding that it would be unlawful to operate a gender balance practice in accordance with Section 29 of the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 (as amended). I have been advised only few days ago that nothing has changed in law and that it will be unlawful for me to refuse selling tickets to women whilst continuing selling to men in order to address the gender balance at the event. However, if amongst you there is a lawyer or a law expert who might be able to find a legal loophole, then, I will re-consider my position. By the way, I have been already advised that the membership loophole does not apply, as the events are clearly sold and advertised to all (for example via the UK-Jive web site, www.uk-jive.co.uk), whether members or not.
MaxBeat


So how can Ceroc limit female number for the Storm event in march? :confused:

Lee

MartinHarper
24th-November-2005, 04:38 PM
So how can Ceroc limit female number for the Storm event in march?

They have received different legal advice, or they are more willing to take a legal risk, or they have not considered the issue from that perspective.

Lee
24th-November-2005, 04:56 PM
They have received different legal advice, or they are more willing to take a legal risk, or they have not considered the issue from that perspective.

Well I look forward to seeing if their attempts to keep balanced sexes work.

I think that everyone was so desperate to get a chalet at the amazingly low price (as they heard it was selling out fast) they didn’t spend time ensuring they had the right numbers to fill their chalet, and as they were so cheap it didn’t matter, so what will happen is that a Women will have booked a chalet for 4 or 6 saying 50/50 male/female split, and they won’t need to bother getting any men as the chalet cost half that of the Jivetime ones. I therefore foresee that Storm will end up with the same situation (70% women) cause by the fact that the chalets were so cheap.

Lets hope they prove me wrong ah, as I like my rest breaks between every 2 dances.

Lee

Cruella
24th-November-2005, 05:01 PM
Well I look forward to seeing if their attempts to keep balanced sexes work.

I think that everyone was so desperate to get a chalet at the amazingly low price (as they heard it was selling out fast) they didn’t spend time ensuring they had the right numbers to fill their chalet, and as they were so cheap it didn’t matter, so what will happen is that a Women will have booked a chalet for 4 or 6 saying 50/50 male/female split, and they won’t need to bother getting any men as the chalet cost half that of the Jivetime ones. I therefore foresee that Storm will end up with the same situation (70% women) cause by the fact that the chalets were so cheap.

Lets hope they prove me wrong ah, as I like my rest breaks between every 2 dances.

Lee
Or the really clever ladies will have booked the chalets saying it was 100% female occupancy and not bothering to fill it to ensure that less ladies are there!!

Sheppy
24th-November-2005, 05:57 PM
I think there's a whole set of irregular verbs:

My events are popular
Your events are cosy
His/her events are crowded

My events have room to dance
Your events have breathing room
His/her events are unpopular

My games console is sold out
Your games console is experiencing manufacturing delays
His/her games console is unavailable

SpinDr.
I take your point, but once you know the facts you can make an informed choice. Its a bit like having more than 1 Ceroc venue nearby on the same night, you go with the one that you enjoy the most. :clap:

Sheppy
24th-November-2005, 05:58 PM
Or the really clever ladies will have booked the chalets saying it was 100% female occupancy and not bothering to fill it to ensure that less ladies are there!!
Think their giving different colour wristbands out as you arrive, wrong wristband = no access to the venue.

Cruella
24th-November-2005, 06:05 PM
Think their giving different colour wristbands out as you arrive, wrong wristband = no access to the venue.

Yes they are but if i've booked say a 4 person chalet at 29 pounds each saying there are 4 ladies in it, but really only 2 are, paying 58 pounds each. (still cheap for weekender) Then it just means we have 2 extra wristbands.

DangerousCurves
24th-November-2005, 07:08 PM
One thing we haven't discussed here yet... you could have an event with perfectly balanced numbers, but you can't force people to dance.

Up at the first Southport weekender I noticed some tables in the main hall with mixed parties sitting round them, and realised that I hadn't seen some of the guys dancing, so I asked one for a dance. He replied that he didn't dance at all - his wife was the dancer and he had just come for a mini-break with her to be sociable. It turned out all the guys at the table were in the same position. I got the same answer from several other guys over the course of the weekend.

The hall looked to be a good mix of male/female - but the actual proportion dancing was different.

Sheppy
24th-November-2005, 07:23 PM
Yes they are but if i've booked say a 4 person chalet at 29 pounds each saying there are 4 ladies in it, but really only 2 are, paying 58 pounds each. (still cheap for weekender) Then it just means we have 2 extra wristbands.
True, still at least there'll be room to breathe :rofl:

Lee
25th-November-2005, 09:58 AM
True, still at least there'll be room to breathe :rofl:

:rofl:

Paul F
25th-November-2005, 10:55 AM
Yes they are but if i've booked say a 4 person chalet at 29 pounds each saying there are 4 ladies in it, but really only 2 are, paying 58 pounds each. (still cheap for weekender) Then it just means we have 2 extra wristbands.

And its an effective, yet expensive, way to ensure there are fewer women going :whistle:

MartinHarper
25th-November-2005, 11:22 AM
Or the really clever ladies will have booked the chalets saying it was 100% female occupancy and not bothering to fill it to ensure that less ladies are there!!


And its an effective, yet expensive, way to ensure there are fewer women going :whistle:

Also, it is an expensive, yet effective, way to ensure that not as many femalefolk are present.

Paul F
25th-November-2005, 11:33 AM
Also, it is an expensive, yet effective, way to ensure that not as many femalefolk are present.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That will teach me to re-read the posts before posting my own :blush:

:D

Cruella
25th-November-2005, 06:45 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That will teach me to re-read the posts before posting my own :blush:

:D
Nice to know you listen to me when i talk Paul.:rolleyes:

Paul F
25th-November-2005, 07:49 PM
Nice to know you listen to me when i talk Paul.:rolleyes:

What do you mean? I hang on your every word :wink:

jacksondonut
25th-November-2005, 08:11 PM
Know its a bit late in the day, but these are my thoughts!!

:nice: The Good:
After visiting Camber over the last two/three years was pleased to see lots of familiar faces from Southport, Scarborough and other weekenders. Always really lovely to catch up with all those people you can only see a couple of times a year... makes it all the more special i think. (Also to see the people you know from Home and didnt know were going to be there....)

Having a nice warm chalet, as opposed to freezing to death in the past!!

Apart from Friday (I think) the weather held up as well, meaning a lovely walk on the beach in the afternoons, (to clear our foggy, exhaused minds) in readiness for the night ahead...

Getting there fairly early and missing most of the problems people experienced later on.... it must have been awful..

:sad: The Bad:
The check-in queue was phenomenal, after a long drive, a few mishaps before leaving, (Guess who put Unleaded in a Deisel car...) i was exhausted and gagging for a long lie-down and half a dozen pints of Baileys (Joking) (Well, maybe not)..

Hearing about the poor folk being turned away that evening, because of the parking situation.. mmmm I think someone needs to build another one.... parking on the road is alright, but not to have to haul all your luggage from there to your chalet..

Not being able stay up all night on Sunday, (only managed 4.am and only left then out of a sense of responsibility to my fellow travellers. I was driving the next day.... well, that day really.)

Finally, being kept awake by a female laughing (or screaming) so loud till about 6am on Saturday/sunday night.. was close to committing murder.. (live and let live, I say, but that was just a tad to much to bear.) Being on the ground floor has its disadvantages..

:tears: The Ugly:
Truthfully, not a lot really apart from having to go to bed on Sunday night after having the most wonderful experience on the dance floor with a rather cute and gorgeous young man.. you know who you are!

Looking forward to Storm... be interesting to see how it goes..
:grin:

Lynn
25th-November-2005, 08:27 PM
Having a nice warm chalet, as opposed to freezing to death in the past!!I was just thinking of another good - that it wasn't the sort of weather we are getting this weekend (it was only 2 weeks ago, though feels like about 2 months ago to me at the moment!) Snow last night and now icy, biting cold, gale force winds - don't know if its like that there but I can imagine that wind gusting into those chalets - brrr!

Lee
26th-November-2005, 12:31 AM
Know its a bit late in the day, but these are my thoughts!!

:tears: The Ugly:
Truthfully, not a lot really apart from having to go to bed on Sunday night after having the most wonderful experience on the dance floor with a rather cute and gorgeous young man.. you know who you are!

Looking forward to Storm... be interesting to see how it goes..
:grin:

Gee thanks :rofl:

jacksondonut
26th-November-2005, 01:11 PM
:flower: tis ok, anyone who is younger than me has to be gorgeous!! :nice:

jacksondonut
26th-November-2005, 01:52 PM
Put it this way, I am so glad that I am snug and warm at home now and NOT freezing to death down in the south...... think we are the only place that hasnt had snow...(Milton Keynes).. I bet the chalets are more like igloos now and only fit for an eskimo...:eek: !!

WittyBird
26th-November-2005, 02:09 PM
Put it this way, I am so glad that I am snug and warm at home now and NOT freezing to death down in the south...... think we are the only place that hasnt had snow...(Milton Keynes).. I bet the chalets are more like igloos now and only fit for an eskimo...:eek: !!

I didn't notice the cold to be honest it was nice and warm in our chalet but I would rather be there still dancing the night away. Best weekend I've had in a long time for more reasons than 1 :clap:

bigdjiver
26th-November-2005, 04:34 PM
One market forces solution to the gender, and other imbalances, would be for the website to publish the profile of those booked so far. How far that is taken is a fresh can-of-worms.

Number of men and women.
How long have they been dancing MJ?
Age groups?
% men that like following, women that like leading?
% done Blues
% that have done Tango?
etc

That would kill off many complaints. If the gender imbalance was wrong for you then you should have waited until you knew what it was going to be before you booked. etc

If all weekenders did this I think the consequence might be that each one would rapidly develop its own character and niche. The event organisers would be more secure, and the dancers would be able to find the events that really suited them. I also suspect that there would be more choice.

jacksondonut
26th-November-2005, 07:11 PM
I didn't notice the cold to be honest it was nice and warm in our chalet but I would rather be there still dancing the night away. Best weekend I've had in a long time for more reasons than 1 :clap:

Ta for reply, chalet was lovely and warm in November, but think temperature dropped drastically since then... i remember in the old days, we used to have our own duvets pillows and blankets in the winter months, just in case... hot water bottles... dont laugh!!! This visit there was enough hot air and hilarity to keep us all warm, we had a ball.:grin:

Lynn
27th-November-2005, 06:02 PM
... just in case... hot water bottles... dont laugh!!! I couldn't laugh, I take my hot water bottle to Southport in Sep!:rofl: I like to be all nice and cosy in bed (I was going to say I like to be hot in bed but that mightn't sound right :innocent: ) and at 6:30am even in the summer months it can be nice to have something warm to snuggle up to before I go to sleep.

WittyBird
27th-November-2005, 06:30 PM
I couldn't laugh, I take my hot water bottle to Southport in Sep!:rofl: I like to be all nice and cosy in bed (I was going to say I like to be hot in bed but that mightn't sound right :innocent: ) and at 6:30am even in the summer months it can be nice to have something warm to snuggle up to before I go to sleep.

All your secrets are coming out now Lynn :blush:
I took my HWB to Camber :cheers:

jacksondonut
28th-November-2005, 01:37 PM
I couldn't laugh, I take my hot water bottle to Southport in Sep!:rofl: I like to be all nice and cosy in bed (I was going to say I like to be hot in bed but that mightn't sound right :innocent: ) and at 6:30am even in the summer months it can be nice to have something warm to snuggle up to before I go to sleep.

Cant say i have ever been HOT in either Southport, or Camber, maybe lukewarm... but in future a hot water bottle will be my companion (not enough room for anything/one else..even my teddy makes it too claustrophobic...lol..) If im REALLY lucky, i dont get to smash my head to peices on the bunk above!!

I am looking forward to the next weekender with great anticipation....Torquay in January will be an experience... wondering whether i will need my HWB there?? !
:clap:

jacksondonut
28th-November-2005, 04:40 PM
This is especially for Mr Dave Hancock.....:clap: :clap: :clap:
You were wonderful..... how could i not mention you :flower:
The Blues Room was very Blue, because of you!!!! :wink: what
a sexy beast you are... :drool:

Hows that? :D