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View Full Version : Do we have to choose a venue now based on the DJ ?



stewart38
31st-October-2005, 12:35 AM
Maybe many people do anyway

In the mid 90s most ceroc venues played very similar music

Now for example if you go to Ashtons one week you get totally different music depending on the DJ (different weeks). That has happened at Windor and other venues

Should HO ceroc be imposing play lists or a range of music ?

Ive never chose a venue because of a DJ but , should I??

I dont mind fast, boppy, challanging all sorts but when i get a TOTAL change at same venue is something wrong :mad:

I loved Ashtons last week , dis liked today (thats being kind) and it was all because of the music , different DJ :mad:

Some people may have prefered today but if there is no consistancy :mad:

Baruch
31st-October-2005, 12:53 AM
I've noticed that you can get very different sets from the same DJ as well. One week he/she may be in a swingy mood, the next week more modern stuff, or whatever. Then again, it would get boring if every week we had the same music.

Blues Dancer
31st-October-2005, 12:54 AM
Consistancy??

Please god no. What would happen (in your case) if the consistant music type that was decided to be played at all Ceroc venues was of the type played at Ashtons tonight?

Variety should be what it's all about (IMHO). I don't want all the same music, all the time. And because of this, I'm prepared to put up with a number of tracks I don't actively like on any given night. I'll just get a drink, or change my shirt, or whatever then, and just go with the fact that someone else will like them.... Hopefully!

stewart38
31st-October-2005, 01:09 AM
Consistancy??

Please god no. What would happen (in your case) if the consistant music type that was decided to be played at all Ceroc venues was of the type played at Ashtons tonight?

Variety should be what it's all about (IMHO). I don't want all the same music, all the time. And because of this, I'm prepared to put up with a number of tracks I don't actively like on any given night. I'll just get a drink, or change my shirt, or whatever then, and just go with the fact that someone else will like them.... Hopefully!


I dont mind the same DJ having a different emphasis , week to week ,try out different things

Nobody wants the same 50 tunes in different order each week

NOBODY is going to please everyone all the time

I wouldnt like but would accept if I went to a venue ive never been to before and didnt like the music, its the my CHOICE if I go back

What I dont like if its same venue, same day its a TOTALLY different set, not even in the same ball park, well thats the preception

maybe we should have

This DJ plays blues
This DJ chart musice

Maybe people already know this :sick:

David Bailey
31st-October-2005, 09:15 AM
Ive never chose a venue because of a DJ but , should I??

It's a very interesting question - I've been wondering that over the past couple of months myself (for me, not you :) ).

I think it's lots of dancers get more picky about music as they get more experienced, with the whole "interpretation" thing and all.

Of course, the problem is that they tend to get picky in different directions. For example, there's a strong and vocal "Slow it down, for chrissakes!" group on the forum, but I'm sure there are also "More Rock 'n Roll!", "More swing!" and even, God help us, "More glam rock!" constituencies out there.

The other problem is that experienced dancers who are passionate about the type of music they like, tend to be a small minority - and pandering to them could annoy the larger majority who like the standard pop-y music.

Up until a couple of years ago, I was mainly attracted to an event because of factors like the floor, the atmosphere, and so on. The music used to be of secondary importance to me. And I used to neither know nor care who the DJ was. I suspect this defines the attitude of 90+% of dancers at a normal venue.

But I've noticed that lately I've been most interested in who the DJ is - and if it's music in the style I like, everything else becomes secondary.

El Salsero Gringo
31st-October-2005, 10:03 AM
even, God help us, "More glam rock!" Does anyone know if Kenobe's tried playing any Yes tracks? I can think of a few that would suit his style. (Roundabout, perhaps, or Going for the One)

Gus
31st-October-2005, 10:14 AM
Ive never chose a venue because of a DJ but , should I??
The whole point of our strategy when we set our clubs up in the North West was to get the public to recognise the DJ as a key differentiating factor. I dont know what the rules for DJs are down south but there does seem to be a broad (bland?) similarity among many of them, playing similar sets. I favour the approach where a DJ develops a 'style' and that becomes the flavour of the the night. JB, TWK, Gregg, Dance Demon etc all fall into this category. To be frank, how could you go to a freestyle if you didnt know who the DJ is? Its the first thing I find out about before making a go/no go decision.

Gadget
31st-October-2005, 02:20 PM
To be frank, how could you go to a freestyle if you didnt know who the DJ is? Its the first thing I find out about before making a go/no go decision.Because it's the only one you can go to? Because it's the only one running when you have the time free to attend?

I have preferences in DJs, but it would only be evedent if two people were playing at the same venue in different rooms... and even then I would probably drift to another room if I was not a fan of a particular track or had exhausted the supply of followers :innocent:

I like to know who the DJ is to get an idea of what they like to play and how they work the floor - it would take four or five events for me to form any opinion on them as a DJ: too many variables for judgement to be made on one venue on one night's music. I certainly wouldn't choose not to attend due to a DJ playing.

ChrisA
31st-October-2005, 03:10 PM
Should HO ceroc be imposing play lists or a range of music ?

You mean they don't???

:whistle:

Chef
31st-October-2005, 04:06 PM
I certainly wouldn't choose not to attend due to a DJ playing.

I would, and do, choose not to attend some venues due to certain DJs playing.

Each DJ plays a mix of music, but flavoured by their own personal tastes. It is nice to get around various DJs so that you can get an refreshing change from time to time. If I only heard my personal favourites everywhere I went I am sure I would become bored with them and I would also miss out on hearing something new that I liked.

Some independant DJs are so distinctive in what they play (TWK, John Ford, to name just two that spring to mind) that really you would only go to them if their sets hit your personal sweet spot. When I go to them I know exactly what I will be getting and that it will be radically different from a "normal" MJ night. I wouldn't want to hear the same stuff everywhere I went to - it would be like McDonalds - different country, same burger.

There has only been two DJs that I would avoid under all circumstances. One of them prompted 12 of us local dancers to form a text messaging group. When he was providing cover for DJs during the holiday season we could never get any information out of the organisers about where he was due to play. So we organised ourselves so that if this DJ was found at a venue the first person to discover this would text all the others with "XXXXXX is at venue XXXXX divert to alternative if possible". Often those people that couldn't divert to another venue chose to turn back home.

bobgadjet
31st-October-2005, 04:48 PM
There has only been two DJs that I would avoid under all circumstances. One of them prompted 12 of us local dancers to form a text messaging group. When he was providing cover for DJs during the holiday season we could never get any information out of the organisers about where he was due to play. So we organised ourselves so that if this DJ was found at a venue the first person to discover this would text all the others with "XXXXXX is at venue XXXXX divert to alternative if possible". Often those people that couldn't divert to another venue chose to turn back home.
Oh dear, that is a very dissappointing thing to read, UNLESS those DJ's were SOOOOOOOOOO bad of course.

BUT

How many of those "Dirty Dozen" actually approached either or both of those DJ's to tell him/her that they didn't like the music they were playing?

How many gave him/her a chance to tell their side of the picture ?

I would be interested to know.

To me it's a bit like hanging somebody without a proper trial.

Chef
31st-October-2005, 05:23 PM
Oh dear, that is a very dissappointing thing to read, UNLESS those DJ's were SOOOOOOOOOO bad of course.

BUT

How many of those "Dirty Dozen" actually approached either or both of those DJ's to tell him/her that they didn't like the music they were playing?

How many gave him/her a chance to tell their side of the picture ?

I would be interested to know.

To me it's a bit like hanging somebody without a proper trial.

Three of these "dirty dozen" approached the DJ and if he would play a few latin style tracks (not even requesting specific tracks) and were told (I quote verbatim here) "I am the DJ here and if you don't like my choice of music then you can f**k off somewhere else". This was our first experience of this DJ.

Our local teachers had been organising a once a month freestyle and had been attracting 300-450 people each month. It rocked and had an atmosphere of a great party. The franchise holder decided that they could do a better job than the local teachers (that they employed) and decided to come in and run it themselves, bringing in this DJ as part of the package.

The first freestyle there was about the normal 300. The music was dreadful (to my tastes). It was like a teenager had been given the oppotunity to play all their favorite garage and trance tracks with a bit of hip hop thrown in. Hence the request for a few latin style tracks which met with the rebuff.

The second freestyle night on the following month there was about 170 people. The music was pretty much the same as before. Other people that later became part of the "dirty dozen" asked the DJ for some particular tracks and were met with generally the same rebuff.

The third freestyle on the next month the attendance was 24 (figures given to me by the door staff since I wasn't there in person).

There wasn't an event on the following month.

The way we saw it was that we expereinced him once, had given him the benifit of the doubt on the second occasion. We had no wish to waste time, petrol, entrance money or anything else on a DJ that would give us, what we considered a dreadful night. We took the DJ at his word after those two occasions. We didn't like it, so we did f**k off.

Every DJ has an off night (as do dancers). That is just normal life. But it is usually only a case of them not being quite as good as their best. We all know this and understand.

Being utterly dreadful, consistently is another matter.



The only other DJ I would avoid is merely a case of their taste in music being such that there wasn't a single peice of music in their set that I didn't like (normally I like about 30% of what is played). This hapened on 3 occasions and I decided not to go to any of the places where he was the DJ (I asked him where else he was the DJ). I don't expect DJs to bend to the wishes of one person (ie me). I take their sets as a whole. There are more than enough venues and DJs around here to miss out about 4 and still have at least 2 places to dance on every night of the week.

Gus
31st-October-2005, 05:55 PM
How many of those "Dirty Dozen" actually approached either or both of those DJ's to tell him/her that they didn't like the music they were playing?
To me it's a bit like hanging somebody without a proper trial.
I could name several DJs from my old patch who were the kiss of death for a good night. They HAD been advised what to play, but they thought they new best:tears: Net result, dancefloor of the tone-deaf/beat-abusers and the better dancers waiting for the rare decent track.

Having said that, there are some DJs, who though they play a good set within their style of music, I would avoid simply because the music isnt what I like. I'm still amazed that some people seem to be able to dance to ANY music, regardless of its 'quality'.

Bex
31st-October-2005, 06:05 PM
I favour the approach where a DJ develops a 'style' and that becomes the flavour of the the night. JB, TWK, Gregg, Dance Demon etc all fall into this category. To be frank, how could you go to a freestyle if you didnt know who the DJ is? Its the first thing I find out about before making a go/no go decision.

Yes, but what differentiates the truly great DJ's is that they can adapt their set to suit their audience without detracting from their 'style'.

I'm mainly talking about TWK here on our Freestyle nights. If TWK played what he normally plays at Jango, 90% of our Twyford dancers probably wouldn't like it or would struggle to dance to some of the music (on freestyle nights we have a full mix of Adanced to Novice dancers). Somehow TWK manages to play his classic choons and mix in some more 'commonly known' (albeit one's that aren't played all over the shop at other venues) to suit all tastes. That to me, makes a great DJ, not one that will only play to suit him, herself or a small minority of dancers.

Adrian (DJ)
31st-October-2005, 06:17 PM
Now for a DJ (and a non-dancing one at that) opinion:

I agree with all that has been said so far. I would never tell someone to f**k off in a club let alone a Ceroc night. That's unbelievable and from the way the monthly freestyle ended, they got what they deserved. Of course it's a shame that a night that drew that many people, fell victim to the usual pointless cost-cutting. Hope that franchisee is feeling it in the pocket!

It's good to know that people will give a DJ 2 or 3 nights before forming an opinion. We do have off nights, but there are also the nights when I could be in a soul mood, a disco/pop mood or a swing mood. I'd hate to think someone would come along on the night I choose to play Rachael Stevens and Sophie Ellis Bexter, and decide that I am a pop DJ and then never return.

The way I see things, instead of people coming every week and getting the same percentage of retro, pop, rock, etc., I would rather soul fans got a healthy dose one week and had a great night, then rock/blues fans got catered to the next week, and so on. Maybe I'm the only DJ that does this?
I know I have people who are fans of the music I play, and I have my critics. That's the way it goes, it's just a shame that the critics are normally more vocal than the fans!


Should HQ ceroc be imposing play lists

The day Ceroc HQ sends me a playlist, I'll send a laptop in my place with a pre-programmed list.


One of them prompted 12 of us local dancers to form a text messaging group

I wonder if I'm the subject of a Dirty Dozen campaign?

Bex
31st-October-2005, 06:28 PM
Now for a DJ (and a non-dancing one at that) opinion:



Who said I wasn't a DJ? (but I am a dancing one) :flower:

I try and cater for all tastes at Reading and Twyford and normally find playing different styles of music in 'three's' works for us (great piece of advice from the late Lorraine at Chesham) ie. 3 x swing, 3 x pop, 3 x latin etc, etc. If there is a new 'challenging' track that I want to play, I usually sandwich in between two tracks that most people would know, after you've played it for a few weeks, it becomes one of the favourites :clap: .

I too would never tell anyone 'where to go', but its helpful for DJ's to get feedback from the dancers if they want to hear a particular track/s, rather than 'its crap I'm off!' We're not mind readers :tears: !

Gus
31st-October-2005, 06:34 PM
Who said I wasn't a DJ? (but I am a dancing one) :flower: Isn't it about that time of year when we ressurect the "Only dancers should be MJ DJs" thread again? :wink:

Chef
31st-October-2005, 06:50 PM
The way I see things, instead of people coming every week and getting the same percentage of retro, pop, rock, etc., I would rather soul fans got a healthy dose one week and had a great night, then rock/blues fans got catered to the next week, and so on. Maybe I'm the only DJ that does this?
I know I have people who are fans of the music I play, and I have my critics. That's the way it goes, it's just a shame that the critics are normally more vocal than the fans!

A good mix is all I look for in a normal night unless I am going to a venues where I know the DJ is playing a certain style of music and the punters are free to self select that night. For a given given music set there will be majority that are happy to say that it was "good" (but that is what they will pay money for), many that say "ok" a small number that will think "bad" but won't say anything, just grumble all the way home. There is a very tiny amount that will think that it has been either so good for them or so bad for them taht they will actually say something to the DJ. The critics are more vocal than the fans because everyone expects a night out to be good. When they are disappointed they are very dissapointed. When they are happy it is exactly what they were expecting.



I wonder if I'm the subject of a Dirty Dozen campaign?

Well not our one at least, it was a few years ago and a fair way from you. It was less of a boycott group, more of a self help group.


I try and cater for all tastes at Reading and Twyford and normally find playing different styles of music in 'three's' works for us (great piece of advice from the late Lorraine at Chesham) ie. 3 x swing, 3 x pop, 3 x latin etc, etc. If there is a new 'challenging' track that I want to play, I usually sandwich in between two tracks that most people would know, after you've played it for a few weeks, it becomes one of the favourites

This "law of 3s" really works well for me. Something for everyone and not too long a wait if there is stuff you don't like. If there is one track in a style that I really, really don't like I will sit and rest. On hearing the second track in the same style I will make my way to the bar/loo/socialise feeling that I have time to do so without having to leg back when a "must not miss" track comes on.

I once came across a DJ that did styles in 30 minute slots. You should have seen how unhappy the MJ lot (most of them) were after 30 minutes of lindy followed by 30 minutes of rock and roll followed by 30minutes of Bee Gees and Abba songs. That reminds me. I don't go back there either.

Lynn
31st-October-2005, 06:55 PM
If I lived somewhere there was a choice of venues, the DJ would play a major part in my choice of where to go. (Obviously other things like where my friends were going, what the venue was like, relative travel times). But I would also give a DJ several nights before I definitely decided on whether they were to my taste or not. And it does depend on what mood I am in as well, which is why I love the range of DJs that play at weekenders. But I have my favourite DJs who I know will be playing music that I will like, no matter what mood I am in.:drool:

And if a 'bad' DJ annoys us so much, it shows how skilled the 'good' DJs are. :worthy:

Andreas
31st-October-2005, 06:59 PM
Maybe many people do anyway

I certainly do.

bobgadjet
31st-October-2005, 07:07 PM
I know I have people who are fans of the music I play, and I have my critics. That's the way it goes, it's just a shame that the critics are normally more vocal than the fans!

Well said, and my sentiments (as a fellow DJ) entirely.:cheers:

I'm very pleased to read that there was some time given to the Dj in question, but HEY, if ANY DJ said F**k off to me, I would not give him/her a second option.

There is
1/ no need for a foul mouth in the first place
2/ a need to respect the fact that it's not the event organiser who pays the wages, but the punters paying the entrance
3/ is there a need for a 3/ ?:wink:

From the numbers it seems that the organisers found out the hard way

BUT

I wonder if they KNOW it was the muiscal taste/DJ who lost them their freestyle night?

Baruch
1st-November-2005, 12:49 AM
To be frank, how could you go to a freestyle if you didnt know who the DJ is? Its the first thing I find out about before making a go/no go decision.
That's fine for those who live in an area where there are multiple choices. When you're in an area with very few options to choose from, you don't have the luxury of picking and choosing which night to go to. Often it's a simple choice between dancing and not dancing instead.

I'm lucky because even though I live in an area without a huge choice of MJ freestyles to go to, those I can get to are usually pretty good. Especially the Jive Magic (http://www.jivemagic.co.uk/) freestyles (soon to be no more :tears: ). However, if the local DJs were rubbish, then I'd just have to dance to rubbish, unless I had lots of money to drive all over the country regularly.

bigdjiver
1st-November-2005, 02:10 AM
It is a recurring theme of mine that I believe that MJ could be expanding faster. When there is only one venue in an area I believe that the "sorta" standard Ceroc mix is right. Once it gets to two Ceroc nights then there should be regular DJ at each, and they should have a distinctive playlist, probably 60% standard, and 40% slanted to the DJ's taste. I believe that the crowd will evolve to match the DJ. When it gets to three venues then about 40% standard, 60% slanted. The fourth night in the area should revert to 100% standard. It is only by having a distinctive quality to each venue that it will be possible to saturate an area. People do not have the same tastes in music.
I believe that changing DJ's, or styles, unannounced, from week to week is a recipe for comparative failure. The venue may still be viable, but it is probably the reality that there is one viable venue where there should be two, or more.

David Bailey
1st-November-2005, 09:49 AM
I believe that changing DJ's, or styles, unannounced, from week to week is a recipe for comparative failure. The venue may still be viable, but it is probably the reality that there is one viable venue where there should be two, or more.
:yeah:
Trouble is, the benefit from a regular DJ (playing music that the more experienced dancers like) is not always immediately obvious from a financia;l point of view.

The experienced punters pay the same as the beginner punters, and indeed most of Ceroc marketing and teaching resources clearly goes to the beginner / early-intermediate market.

However, I think that a reasonable number of happy experienced dancers as a venue improves the atmosphere, and gives the beginners and early-intermediates something to aim for (or possibly, in my case, something to avoid). So there's a more subtle long-term benefit in keeping these people happy.

The trouble is, most venue managers don't think subtle, and may simply tend to go for the cheapest or most convenient DJ, because "they only play records, right?" :rolleyes:

Daisy Chain
1st-November-2005, 01:02 PM
I believe that changing DJ's, or styles, unannounced, from week to week is a recipe for comparative failure. The venue may still be viable, but it is probably the reality that there is one viable venue where there should be two, or more.

:yeah: I must confess that I deliberately don't dance every week at my local venue as I'm trying to avoid various DJs and teachers. I stalk the better DJ and try to avoid the teacher whose lessons don't usually appeal.

You wouldn't believe how cheated I feel on nights when they change the rota...

If it was the same DJ and same teacher nearly every week, the company would make more money out of me!
Daisy

(A Fussy Little Flower)

bigdjiver
1st-November-2005, 01:28 PM
...The trouble is, most venue managers don't think subtle, and may simply tend to go for the cheapest or most convenient DJ, because "they only play records, right?" :rolleyes:In Ceroc Central it is Phil Roberts, the franchisee that picks the DJ's. Dave Archer was DJ'ing at the London Astoria in his teens, introducing the likes of Cliff Richards. He passes on his experience to any other Ceroc Central DJ's that need it. The results are audible. We had a superb set from Peter Krull the other week at Letchworth. I remember sometimes cringing at some of his early efforts. DJ'ing is an art and a science. The science can be taught and learned.

Gus
1st-November-2005, 02:01 PM
Dave Archer was DJ'ing at the London Astoria in his teens, introducing the likes of Cliff Richards.Hold on .... thats a good thing ????:tears: :tears: :tears:

Lynn
1st-November-2005, 02:16 PM
Hold on .... thats a good thing ????:tears: :tears: :tears:And is he any relation to Cliff Richard? :whistle:

(I can't really comment though, I have been along to one of his concerts, many years ago).

bigdjiver
1st-November-2005, 05:27 PM
And is he any relation to Cliff Richard? :whistle: ....:blush: T believe that there was a strong resemblance. Sorry, Cliff. (You never know who is reading.)