Salsa

[Lynn]

Thought it would be good to have a seperate thread from the 'teaching of lead and follow' in salsa as some of us were talking about more general salsa experiences.

I've decided I'm going to go along to a salsa Christmas party in Dec. Its in a nice venue (a bar at the Waterfront Hall with big floor to ceiling windows looking out over the river), and I've heard its not too smoky. Aside from a few workshops, I haven't done any salsa lessons for almost 2 years, so am going to start going for the next few weeks to try to get to the point where I can at least pass myself at the Christmas Ball. Its going to be interesting to see if I am any better at it (wasn't very good before :blush: ) than when I last tried. (Ie if my dancing experience in MJ has any effect.)

Jivecat, you still going to classes? How are they going?

Ducasi - I'm following your blog on this. Sounds like you are covering a lot more by week three than someone starting a beginners class would here.

[ducasi]

Hi Lynn and other Salseros... :nice:

I've just written up my fourth week of Salsa (http://ducasi.org/blog/2005/11/05/salsa-week-4/) (which is actually the fifth class in the series – I missed the first.)

There's what we'd call a "Tea Dance" for Glasgow's salseros on Sunday afternoon, but for the reasons I gave in my blog, I don't think I'll be going along to it.

I am so frustrated by the way girls can go along to these events and have lots of great dances long before guys can. It's just not fair!

Something I've noticed though is that there seem to be a lot more free salsa events than for MJ. I guess it's because they tend to be held in small, (sometimes crowded) bars and the bar's owner is keen to be associated with trendy salsa dancing. (Perhaps salsa dancers also tend to drink more than MJ dancers?)

Anyway, comments on my blog posting are, as always, very welcome.

[jivecat]

I am so frustrated by the way girls can go along to these events and have lots of great dances long before guys can. It's just not fair!

If only! From chatting to some of the other co-novices it seems that for leaders it's at least 6 months before they could hope to participate in freestyles without looking like a complete prat. I'm hoping it's a bit less for followers. I haven't been to a party night yet, I'm steeling myself for an evening spent as a wallflower, gritting my teeth with frustration!

I'm still uneasy about the dance etiquette. If I ask guys to dance, I'm vaguely worried about disapproving glances from "senior" salseras who are standing at the sides. There may be a pecking order I don't know about. But usually, I just think "What the hell..., go for it."

I plucked up the courage last week to ask an obviously experienced guy for a dance. He looked at me closely and said "You really want to learn, don't you?" Can't imagine ever getting that response in MJ. But at least he didn't think I was hitting on him.



(Perhaps salsa dancers also tend to drink more than MJ dancers?)



They certainly do. I think the guys need it to break down the terror and inhibition! And the teachers smoke like chimneys.

I've signed up for Course 2 and there's still a big emphasis on lead/follow, though we've now covered the Dile que no and the Dile que si, though I can't remember which is which!

Further thoughts - despite being obviously totally macho & heterosexual etc, the Dominican merengue teacher has no inhibitions about grabbing the nearest male so that he can demonstrate the ladies' steps, and it's all treated as a good laugh. I can't imagine that going down well at a Ceroc class.

There's a disproportionate number of people from Asian backgrounds in the class - maybe up to a third. I know this is Leicester, but there's probably only 5% max at the Ceroc nights. Is there any cultural reason for why salsa might have greater appeal?

Does anyone know of a good, basic, instruction video/DVD for Cuban style salsa? One of the guys was complaining that he couldn't find one anywhere and the teacher, strangely, was not being very helpful! So I said I'd ask the fount of all dancing knowledge.

[David Bailey]

I'm still uneasy about the dance etiquette. If I ask guys to dance, I'm vaguely worried about disapproving glances from "senior" salseras who are standing at the sides. There may be a pecking order I don't know about. But usually, I just think "What the hell..., go for it."
I think coming from MJ, some followers adapt very well and have the confidence to ask for a dance, more than some salseras who've only experienced the more macho "the man does the asking" culture which seems to be prevalent in salsa. For example, I almost never get asked to dance salsa by an unknown woman in salsa, although it'd be nice if I were...

Re: smoking / drinking:

They certainly do. I think the guys need it to break down the terror and inhibition! And the teachers smoke like chimneys.
Again, it's a cultural thing, along with the fact that most salsa (freestyle) venues are in pubs or clubs rather than the "big hall" MJ model.


I've signed up for Course 2 and there's still a big emphasis on lead/follow, though we've now covered the Dile que no and the Dile que si, though I can't remember which is which!
From what you and Ducasi are saying, there's a lot of emphasis on the Spanish names of moves in the classes - is that common generally? None of the classes I've been to recently have done that...


Further thoughts - despite being obviously totally macho & heterosexual etc, the Dominican merengue teacher has no inhibitions about grabbing the nearest male so that he can demonstrate the ladies' steps, and it's all treated as a good laugh. I can't imagine that going down well at a Ceroc class.
Hmmm, I doubt that's a "macho" thing, I think it's more that male Ceroc teachers trust their demonstrators to show the ladies' steps themselves, rather than take over the whole show. I went to a salsa class a few months ago with a Ceroc teacher, and she was distinctly unimpressed with the teacher doing this; she thought it was just showing off, and not trusting his demonstrator.


Does anyone know of a good, basic, instruction video/DVD for Cuban style salsa? One of the guys was complaining that he couldn't find one anywhere and the teacher, strangely, was not being very helpful! So I said I'd ask the fount of all dancing knowledge.
No, sorry. :sad:

I can definitely recommend not ever getting any teaching videos done by Elder Sanchez, however, as they're truly abysmal.

[ducasi]

If only! From chatting to some of the other co-novices it seems that for leaders it's at least 6 months before they could hope to participate in freestyles without looking like a complete prat. I'm hoping it's a bit less for followers. A Ceroc dancer I know, after, I think, only one or two classes went to a Salsa party and apparently had a fantastic time. That may have had something to do with the "friendly faces" there that she knew from Ceroc.

I think before I go to any freestyles, I'll want to be sure there are similarly friendly faces I know there.

I plucked up the courage last week to ask an obviously experienced guy for a dance. He looked at me closely and said "You really want to learn, don't you?" Can't imagine ever getting that response in MJ. But at least he didn't think I was hitting on him. That at a class night? I guess if I asked the female demo/taxi after class for a dance, I'd probably get a similar reaction – especially as no-one else would be up dancing at the time.

They certainly do. I think the guys need it to break down the terror and inhibition! And the teachers smoke like chimneys. I had plenty of terror and inhibition when I started Ceroc, but quite rightly I figured that drinking wasn't going to help me remember the moves, and would only make things worse. Don't know what it's going to be like in Salsa, but maybe it also depends what other people are doing...

My teacher has just given up smoking! She said though that she thinks it was a bad time to do it as she's off at a Salsa weekender in Wales this weekend where she's teaching!

I've signed up for Course 2 and there's still a big emphasis on lead/follow, though we've now covered the Dile que no and the Dile que si, though I can't remember which is which! What? There's a Dile que si?? :eek: Maybe this will help you remember... the dile que no is the one I do know, and the dile que si is the one I don't. :nice:

There's a disproportionate number of people from Asian backgrounds in the class - maybe up to a third. I know this is Leicester, but there's probably only 5% max at the Ceroc nights. Is there any cultural reason for why salsa might have greater appeal? That's interesting, as I guess it's a wee bit similar here. I haven't seen many Asians at Ceroc, but there has been at least two in my Salsa class – the two that (sometimes) go with me.

One is the friend that I managed to get to go by embarrassing her into it. She had talked about doing Salsa for years, but when I said I would go, she had to agree to come along so that I wouldn't be able to slag her about it. (The other is her sister.)

Although she had seen Ceroc, she said didn't like it, though she hasn't yet given me a coherent reason why she doesn't like Ceroc, but does like Salsa. She's said she doesn't like Ceroc music, but she's very much into dance music. She said she doesn't like the closeness of Ceroc, but Salsa is even closer.

The only thing that might make sense is that she thinks that Salsa is sexier, but if she doesn't like close moves, how is she going experience this sexiness?

For various reasons she and her sister have actually had to miss the last three weeks (they've only done the first two weeks) and I don't think they'll bother coming back for the last three.

Does anyone know of a good, basic, instruction video/DVD for Cuban style salsa? :yeah:

Cheers!

[Lynn]

I didn't make it along to salsa last Tues (what would have been my first salsa class in about 1 1/2 years, not counting a couple of workshops I did when Susanna Montero was over in April). But I am going this Tues, definitely. :grin:

The past year or so my only salsa experiences are party nights, they are often for charity and I go along to support the organisers, or to see friends. And I have never, ever enjoyed a single one for the dancing. I like seeing friends, I get up for dances with friends, I go put with every intention of having a good evening. But I tend to come away thinking 'I'm never doing salsa again', then time passes and I have friends who go and I go along again... Like now.

With MJ, even if I don't know that many people, even if my dancing is 'off form' I still enjoy myself. Any suggestions as to why there is this difference would be good as maybe I could sort out whatever it is and actually enjoy a salsa night!

Re: smoking / drinking:

Again, it's a cultural thing, along with the fact that most salsa (freestyle) venues are in pubs or clubs rather than the "big hall" MJ model. OK, this is one of the things that puts me off, I'm aware of that. Pubs/clubs mean small dance floors, greater intensity of smoke, and floors with alcohol spills which ruin dance shoes. The Christmas event I am planning on going on is in a 'bar' area but its at a nice venue, I heard it wasn't too smoky last year and the floor should be clean.

I'll post again after Tues, I'm going to an improvers class first, then on to a club. There will be several male salsa dancing friends (some of whom I have introduced to partner dancing in the first place) so I know I will get a few dances. I'll see if I enjoy it...

[Lynn]

Hi Lynn and other Salseros... :nice:

I've just written up my fourth week of Salsa (http://ducasi.org/blog/2005/11/05/salsa-week-4/) (which is actually the fifth class in the series – I missed the first.) Thanks for the link! :flower:

[David Bailey]

Although she had seen Ceroc, she said didn't like it, though she hasn't yet given me a coherent reason why she doesn't like Ceroc, but does like Salsa. She's said she doesn't like Ceroc music, but she's very much into dance music. She said she doesn't like the closeness of Ceroc, but Salsa is even closer.
That does seem a little inconsistent... But, some people just don't like the atmosphere, and that's all there is to it. Same applies to salsa of course (more so, probably).

I think a lot of this "preference" is to do with self-image, and the image of particular dances - if you think of yourself as a trendy funky clubber, and MJ as an old fogies dance, then you may want to try salsa because you think it fits your own view of yourself.

Of course, you then realise that salsa is more difficult to learn at the start than MJ, and you don't come back...


The only thing that might make sense is that she thinks that Salsa is sexier, but if she doesn't like close moves, how is she going experience this sexiness?
Salsa isn't sexier than MJ - no dance is inherently sexier than any other, it's the way you do it that makes it sexy. Or so I'm told.


For various reasons she and her sister have actually had to miss the last three weeks (they've only done the first two weeks) and I don't think they'll bother coming back for the last three.
Mmm - basically, it sounds like they're just not really interested in learning to dance.

[Anna]

The thing I have found with Salsa, is that everyone is so elitist and egotistical that if you want to do even half-okay, you have to be like a breath of fresh air. Don't care what anyone thinks. Don't let the hotshots psych you out. If you ask them to dance, the worst they can say is no and believe it or not, a lot of "experienced" male salsa dancers (and I have heard Richard Natividad of Latin Dance Australia and Nestor from Modus Vivendi both say this)..dancing with beginner women is often the most enjoyable!!!

And I know it works cos that's how I "learnt" Salsa pretty much, I knew the basics but had forgotten them all til I started going to the lain clubs around June this year. - From having the courage to ask the "Pro's" to dance (over and over and over and over..:whistle: ), I'm now 'advanced' salsa and I begin teaching for latin rhythm dance studio starting in Dec. I know that sounds like one of those cheesy commercials on TV like "buy the flab-blaster and you'll lose 20kg in 2 weeks!" but its actually true. That whole dancing with people better than you thing is definitely worth it. :clap:

And I keep getting the feeling I'm hugely off topic.... :sick: :whistle:

[Anna]

Salsa isn't sexier than MJ - no dance is inherently sexier than any other, it's the way you do it that makes it sexy. Or so I'm told.


Lies :yum: even basic Salsa is HUGELY sexier than MJ.

[jivecat]

From what you and Ducasi are saying, there's a lot of emphasis on the Spanish names of moves in the classes - is that common generally? None of the classes I've been to recently have done that...
I'd quite like them to teach the whole class in Spanish, it'd kill two birds with one stone. I could hone my Dominican accent....


Hmmm, I doubt that's a "macho" thing, I think it's more that male Ceroc teachers trust their demonstrators to show the ladies' steps themselves, rather than take over the whole show. I went to a salsa class a few months ago with a Ceroc teacher, and she was distinctly unimpressed with the teacher doing this; she thought it was just showing off, and not trusting his demonstrator.


He doesn't have a demonstrator, the ladies rotate and he demos using whatever lady comes to hand at the time - if he thinks the ladies' bit is tricky that's when he demos himself.

[jivecat]

That whole dancing with people better than you thing is definitely worth it. :clap:

And I keep getting the feeling I'm hugely off topic.... :sick: :whistle:

We'll be back on another topic dear to the forumites' hearts if were not careful! Good post & advice. I left before the end of the freestyle last night because I can't stand that bit after the class when the favoured ones get up and dance with the teacher/ experienced dancers and the rest lean against the walls looking on. I think I need to cultivate an attitude of sheer, single-minded, shameless selfishness when it comes to gettting dances, otherwise I'm going to get fed-up with the wallflower stage.
Thinking back, the first year of Ceroc was pretty hellish and there were quite a few evenings when I thought "I'm never going back there!"

[David Bailey]

The thing I have found with Salsa, is that everyone is so elitist and egotistical that if you want to do even half-okay, you have to be like a breath of fresh air. Don't care what anyone thinks. Don't let the hotshots psych you out.
Exactly - the salsa scene is much more snobby (at least in the UK) than the MJ scene, that's the main reason I prefer MJ.


He doesn't have a demonstrator, the ladies rotate and he demos using whatever lady comes to hand at the time - if he thinks the ladies' bit is tricky that's when he demos himself.
Blimey. Are there any other salsa classes near you? It sounds like your one is, bluntly, crap.

No demo to show you the steps, no working with the room, masty atmosphere...


Lies :yum: even basic Salsa is HUGELY sexier than MJ.
It's subjective, but I think you'll find Andreas has a different opinion. :whistle:

Admittedly, I also used to think that, but now I think that once you get to a certain level, it almost doesn't matter what you dance. Although it's difficult for me to imagine line-dancing being sexy...

[jivecat]

Blimey. Are there any other salsa classes near you? It sounds like your one is, bluntly, crap.

No demo to show you the steps, no working with the room, masty atmosphere...




I've tried various salsa classes over the years, and this is the best so far. Because -

1. It's well-organised and managed in terms of dealing with the extra ladies & rotation of partners.
2. It's well-thought out in terms of progression with one step leading on to the next, and good foundations being established.
3.The teacher is good at showing the basics with a firm but relaxed teaching style.
4.The classes are structured well with a good balance of footwork, partner work, revision of old material and introduction of new material.
5.There's a clear emphasis on lead and follow and it is explained carefully.
6.All the ladies get a chance to be led by the teacher during the course of a leson.

This is the only class where I feel that I've got a good chance of learning as long as I stick with it, though admittedly there is a lot of transfer of knowledge over from Ceroc which I didn't have before.

As for the not working with the room & hierarchical atmosphere - I thought that was par for the course. (Thinks, have I moaned about it that much?:blush: )

To compare with Ceroc it was at least a year before teacher danced with me, and I recall the Leicester venue seemed pretty cliquey and unfriendly at the time as new and unfamiliar places often do. I just stuck with it through gritted teeth because I really wanted to do it. The salsa punters are actually very friendly because the group is much smaller so there's time and space specifically for socialising.

So does your class have advantages over & above what I've just described?

[David Bailey]

So does your class have advantages over & above what I've just described?
My class does, yes. Coz I'm doing it, and I'm a lovely friendly person, just ask anyone :innocent:

As for classes I learn at, hmmm, you may have a point - sorry, I jumped to conclusions based on some comment.. :blush:

[Lynn]

Lies :yum: even basic Salsa is HUGELY sexier than MJ.:rofl: They must dance it a lot better there then! Seeing a bunch of people trying to wiggle their hips and look sexy is not! I think salsa has a much higher 'looking very stupid while you learn it' factor in the early stages than MJ. That's a comment based on observations last night at beginner (saw the end) and the improvers class after not having been to salsa classes for over a year.


Exactly - the salsa scene is much more snobby (at least in the UK) than the MJ scene, that's the main reason I prefer MJ. I have to say that I found the guys in the class last night all had a great attitude. I was too tired to go on to the club, I suppose the 'snobby' dancers wouldn't bother with the classes anyway.

OK - report on last night. A line up warm up, which was fine except for some heel, heel, toe, toe thing which I thought even the teacher looked daft doing. Teacher (with demo) in centre of circle, ladies rotated, scatter method. Although there were extra ladies it wasn't too bad.

Moves - no idea the names of most of it but I'll give it a go in case others do... CBL into copa - guy stops lady by R hand on her R shoulder - spins her AC 1 1/2 turns with hand on shoulder (lady bends knees to get under the guys arm), then a CBL variation where guy turns right round to end up facing opposite to lady with his hand behind his back, turns again, catches lady round tummy and walks her backwards then into a 'flick' ending turning the lady AC. He didn't show an ending so leads were either releasing for lady to spin AC and catch or wrap AC then unwrap or spin C. All seemed fairly straightforward but some guys were having problems with the CBL variation and I had problems with the flick move as he just said 'you all know that' and didn't teach it. I was standing out on the walk through for that bit so when we rotated I was dancing right through with a move I didn't know - fortunately I got a nice lead who showed me the move.

After the class there were 5 tracks for practice, as there were several friends there I danced to 4 of them.

The venue has a new floor since I was last there which is better and much faster, was able to spin in my trainers no problem - but there were wet patches and I slipped once and a partner did too. And I have been told that depending on what other events have been in the hall (its a Student's Union) sometimes when you stand on the floor in parts the beer comes up through the joins! :really: Yeuch!

A few guys weren't dancing on the beat, but they maybe have only recently moved up to that level and are finding the moves and dancing on the beat too much to think about at once.

Worryingly, some guys couldn't lead very well, and many were ones who I recognised that were in this intermediate class 2 years ago when I was starting the beginners. And I also noticed that if they didn't lead a move well and I wasn't where I was supposed to be (because I was following their lead and not just walking through the move) they blamed me and said 'no you should go here'. :what: As I was only back to classes after a long break, I didn't want to say 'well lead me to there then!' but if I continue I will try to point out that they need to make that clearer with their lead.

There was some mention of lead and follow (going back to the other thread) and there were guys there who were leading very well but I asked several 'would you lead this move in social dancing?' and they said no. Esp with the copa spin under thingy - the woman has to know the man wants her to turn under and bend her knees, there was no explanation of how the lead indicates this - even in the walk though I got thumped on the head with one lead. I don't think the hand on the shoulder is enough of a lead as (I think) leading from the shoulder is used in other moves that don't involve the woman ducking and spinning under the arm?

I didn't go on to the salsa club as a crowd of friends were going for coffee and meeting up with other friends, and by the time I was leaving there it was after 11pm and I was tired, and there is Camber this weekend. Maybe next time!

[ducasi]

My latest blog (http://ducasi.org/blog/2005/11/11/salsa-week-5/). :nice:

[Zuhal]

Ducasi

Your Blog is very interesting as it articulates most of the experiences that I have had in the last year.

I now dance Salsa more than MJ (though I enjoy both for different reasons)

One thing I have found useful is to identify an experience follower at each venue you go to and get her to critique your attempt at the sequence or stuff you have learned that week. Then do all those moves out of sequence until she is happy with your lead. I have two touch stones like this and they take perverse delight in taking the pi$$ every week but it is very helpful to me.

Secondly, it is not always easy to spot the 123 from the 567 with some less distinct tracks so I always ask my partner to find the beat for me. They think I am a muppet for 10 seconds until they realise I can follow it, I just cannot find it easily.

Carry on Blogging

Zuhal

[ducasi]

Your Blog is very interesting as it articulates most of the experiences that I have had in the last year. Thanks! :nice:

One thing I have found useful is to identify an experience follower at each venue you go to and get her to critique your attempt at the sequence or stuff you have learned that week. Then do all those moves out of sequence until she is happy with your lead. I have two touch stones like this and they take perverse delight in taking the pi$$ every week but it is very helpful to me. That's a good idea, but hard to implement... In my beginner's class there's just us, plus the teacher plus a male and female couple helping her. After the class if the helpers stick around they are dancing with each other and the teacher is busy taking money...

I was thinking of doing the level 2 classes that starts next week, and they might have more experienced folks around, but I'm not sure I am looking for a greater challenge just at the moment (I've come to the conclusion I've been over-doing the dancing a bit recently, and need to calm it down.)

Secondly, it is not always easy to spot the 123 from the 567 with some less distinct tracks so I always ask my partner to find the beat for me. They think I am a muppet for 10 seconds until they realise I can follow it, I just cannot find it easily. I don't think I'm having problems spotting the 123 from the 567, not that it matters much for me – at my level of salsa, all the music is really doing is making it harder to hear the teacher. :wink:

Instead the problem was that I found as I was counting the beat to myself, I was trying to start moves on the 567 when it should be on the 123. For example, in an exhibela it should be 123 as I step and turn away and the girl steps forward, and 567 as we turn and come back together, right? But I found I was trying to lead the move while I was counting the 567. Simply not right.

In situations like that, to recover, I guess I just need to find something to do for a bar, while I get myself re-synchronised with the rhythm of the music. Of course the real problem is that at some point earlier I've lost half a move somewhere. :blush:

Thanks for your comments, much appreciated. :nice:

[RogerR]

JUst a thought from when I worked at a salsa club ( http://www.jivemaster.fsnet.co.uk/disco_pic.htm actually a salsa club that used my dj kit )

The best salsa dancing men are latinos and certainly in london they are very posessive over their women. Once one attatches himself to you, its a risk to dance with anyone else.

[JonD]

All you Salsa afficionados probably know about this site already, but I found this article really funny: Can Salsa turn you into a zombie? (http://www.salsa-uk.com/articles/article192.htm). It was linked from a Tango site.

My Salsa is horribly poor. I can pick up moves pretty well in a class, don't have a problem with the beat pattern but have some kind of mental block about the timing of leads in freestyle. The more I think about just when I should lead the more useless I become.

Julie, needless to say, is a good Salsa dancer (she's horribly good at pretty much everything) and it would be nice to be able to dance competently with her. The second week of our dance & ski holiday is Salsa based so I hope that some practice will get me past my mental block

[Zuhal]

In situations like that, to recover, I guess I just need to find something to do for a bar, while I get myself re-synchronised with the rhythm of the music. Of course the real problem is that at some point earlier I've lost half a move somewhere. :blush:



A body roll will absorb that bar. A good follow will mirror your movement and be tensioned ready to return to the beat.
Of course I am a tall oaf so my body rolls usually induce :rofl: from my partner.
Keeps them amused though.

Zuhal

[jivecat]

All you Salsa afficionados probably know about this site already, but I found this article really funny: Can Salsa turn you into a zombie? (http://www.salsa-uk.com/articles/article192.htm). It was linked from a Tango site.



:rofl: :rolleyes: I think I'm one of the Jive Undead!

[ducasi]

All you Salsa afficionados probably know about this site already, but I found this article really funny: Can Salsa turn you into a zombie? (http://www.salsa-uk.com/articles/article192.htm). It was linked from a Tango site. That's a great article. :rofl:

It works just as well for Ceroc too, just ask the folks off at Camber this weekend.

[ducasi]

A body roll will absorb that bar. A good follow will mirror your movement and be tensioned ready to return to the beat. I fear for the partner I try that on. She's going to die laughing! :rofl:

Maybe I can try simply halving a simple move...

[Anna]

All you Salsa afficionados probably know about this site already, but I found this article really funny: Can Salsa turn you into a zombie? (http://www.salsa-uk.com/articles/article192.htm). It was linked from a Tango site.


Ohh no.. I'm a zombie for all dancing :( and I thought it was just my own natural enthusiasm.. :rofl:

Unfortunately, lately I have been refusing to let the 'dance high' go, at the last Salsa weekend we had (The Salsa Slam) I danced until not only was the tiniest flex of my foot painful and spinning nearly impossible but I couldn't even hear what kind of song was playing - I had to ask people if it was a Salsa or Samba :eek: but on I danced! And it was GOOD... but man did I pay for it the next day or what!!

[Lynn]

OK - this weeks salsa...was bachata. The teacher had had some requests to teach it. I was quite glad as instead of being an inexperienced salsa dancer amongst people who did salsa every week, we were all learning something new so I felt on a level with the rest of the class. I found the hip lift bit took some getting used to and the teacher didn't actually teach the men how to lead the hesitations, so I was always a bit behind when they did and seemed to have my weight on the wrong foot. The teacher did show the close hold and the not so close and told the guys to respect the ladys space but it seems the sort of dance that a guy could very easily have a lot of control over the woman's distance, and I'm not sure I like that (I'm fine with close, as long as I feel I have control and trust the lead). Having said that most guys last night danced it at about 2 feet and I only did the very close hold with one (who is a good friend).

More women this week - I was waiting out almost every other rotation(using the scatter method).

Several guys were leading it verbally ('now side to side', 'I'm going to turn you now' etc) which was funny in one way, but rather worrying too! Others could lead it easily and we were chatting about other things as we danced. And some were complimentary, which was nice!

Again, I didn't go on to the salsa club, again. Still a bit tired after Camber and wanted to catch with friends over coffee instead.

I did get my ticket for the Christmas salsa ball, but once again I'm not getting really sold on salsa. I think this may be my last 'giving salsa a go' attempt. I seem to be stuck in some middle ground of not being good enough to have a good dance with someone, but past beginners stage, and without lots of freestyling I can't see that changing. And overpacked, smoky venues aren't my scene, so I'm not going to get that opportunity.:(

[Anna]

That's sad... pfffft UK Salsa :( *shakes head*

The first NZ World Salsa Congress is from 14-16 April next year!! Come one come all!! :D

[David Bailey]

That's sad... pfffft UK Salsa :( *shakes head*

The first NZ World Salsa Congress is from 14-16 April next year!! Come one come all!! :D
"NZ ... World Salsa Congress" :confused:

Is that like the US World Series? :whistle:

[Anna]

Oh don't tell me that you haven't heard of the World Salsa Congresses before?

There's an west and east coast one in the USA, the LA congress which I'm performing at next year, the Sydney Salsa Congress, the Paris salsa congress, the munich salsa congress.. the tokyo salsa congress!!!

And there must be one for the UK as well.

Alright I'll explain then, a congress is bit like a weekender.. it has about 3 days of workshops with international teachers, 3 nights of HUGE parties with international bands and djs and performances by the teachers or other dance companies.. sometimes there's a competition too. And obviously some of the congresses are more prestigious than eithers, ie. all the american congresses which kick the NZ congresses pants ;)

[David Bailey]

Oh don't tell me that you haven't heard of the World Salsa Congresses before?

There's an west and east coast one in the USA, the LA congress which I'm performing at next year, the Sydney Salsa Congress, the Paris salsa congress, the munich salsa congress.. the tokyo salsa congress!!!

And there must be one for the UK as well.

Alright I'll explain then, a congress is bit like a weekender.. it has about 3 days of workshops with international teachers, 3 nights of HUGE parties with international bands and djs and performances by the teachers or other dance companies.. sometimes there's a competition too. And obviously some of the congresses are more prestigious than eithers, ie. all the american congresses which kick the NZ congresses pants ;)
Thanks...

Irony icon, where are you baby?

[ducasi]

Not a great Salsa class last night (http://ducasi.org/blog/2005/11/17/salsa-week-6/).

It was a bit disorganised and rushed. And even though we're learning lots of moves, I still don't feel like we're learning to dance.

Next week is the last week. There's probably going to be a follow-on "improvers" course in the new year, but I think I might give Tango a go...

[David Bailey]

Not a great Salsa class last night (http://ducasi.org/blog/2005/11/17/salsa-week-6/).
Reading the blog, it sounds like a typical salsa class to me; sorry, but IMO the average standard of teaching is not much higher than that at most places in London.


Next week is the last week. There's probably going to be a follow-on "improvers" course in the new year, but I think I might give Tango a go...
Well, I wouldn't give up yet. Salsa has a steeper initial learning curve than MJ, and you'd not expect to be comfortable freestyling in the same short period of time.

Admittedly, I'm a slow learner, but it took me months to get the rhythm going - and years to get it feeling natural. I'd stick at it - but maybe see if there are any other classes you might try?

Also, the learning curve for Tango is much nastier than salsa - or in fact any dance I can think of. If you're used to the quick-and-easy MJ style, the discipline of Tango may be a serious culture shock; it is to me, anyway.

[ducasi]

Also, the learning curve for Tango is much nastier than salsa - or in fact any dance I can think of. If you're used to the quick-and-easy MJ style, the discipline of Tango may be a serious culture shock; it is to me, anyway. It's not the learning curve – I'm not finding what we're doing especially hard. It's the fact that so-far I'm not really a big fan of Salsa.

There are probably several factors, but what it comes down to is that I much prefer Ceroc – it gives me everything that Salsa promises, so I see little value in continuing with it.

That said, the only Tango course in Glasgow I have details of (so-far) only takes on new beginners once a year in the autumn.

Maybe I'll be back at Salsa in January...

[JonD]

That said, the only Tango course in Glasgow I have details of (so-far) only takes on new beginners once a year in the autumn
You knew that'd get me didn' you?! Try this link Tango in Glasgow (http://www.tangoglasgow.org.uk/). Jenny and Ricardo teach on Wednesdays and they are brilliant. They did the Tango class at Camber in Nov 04 and Ricardo is the guy on the BBC "filler bit". There's a link to their site from Tango in Glasgow with more details on their class.


It's the fact that so-far I'm not really a big fan of Salsa.

Me too. It just doesn't "grab" me for some reason. I think it's the music - my untutored ear just finds it boring and I'm not skilled enough to find the spaces in it for improvisation. I really must find some time to really look at Salsa though and see if I can discover its magic.

[Lynn]

Next week is the last week. There's probably going to be a follow-on "improvers" course in the new year, but I think I might give Tango a go...I'm sticking with the salsa for the next few weeks, going to a 'salsa ball' on 10th Dec, but don't think I will continue in the New Year. I think there may be some Arg Tango classes starting - I've done about 3 of these in total, very spaced out and while its very challenging and I could see it being frustrating, I have always felt I am learning something about moving and dancing - in salsa I just feel I am learning about moves. (Yes I know you can say the same for a lot of MJ).

And then of course there will be Ceroc NI next year to look forward to! I can see salsa being squeezed out for me, esp as most of my dancing friends will be coming along to Ceroc.

[ducasi]

You knew that'd get me didn' you?! Try this link Tango in Glasgow (http://www.tangoglasgow.org.uk/). Jenny and Ricardo teach on Wednesdays and they are brilliant. I saw them, but I could find details of when their next beginner's class starts.

But thanks for the recommendation, I'll be sure to follow it up!

[David Bailey]

Me too. It just doesn't "grab" me for some reason. I think it's the music - my untutored ear just finds it boring and I'm not skilled enough to find the spaces in it for improvisation. I really must find some time to really look at Salsa though and see if I can discover its magic.
To be fair, there aren't that many spaces for improvisation in most of the club salsa tracks - the true classics tend to be ones that allow improvisation IMO, but they're few and far between.

You do learn to differentiate between tracks after a while, of course. At the moment (heresy, I know) most tango tracks sound very similar to me :blush:

[Andreas]

When I find the time I go to the freestyles (can't make the class) on a Monday and/or Wednesday in Clapham Common and they play the best Salsa music I have come across in London. I have to add that I have not been around North London, so wouldn't know.

They don't just play fast Cuban music, but also a lot of Nicaraguan and Columbian tracks, which provides a nice variety. Speed is also not too bad, mostly medium speed, only a couple of fast tracks, and also some slower ones.

:flower:

[David Bailey]

When I find the time I go to the freestyles (can't make the class) on a Monday and/or Wednesday in Clapham Common and they play the best Salsa music I have come across in London. I have to add that I have not been around North London, so wouldn't know.
The only place I know of in North London that's played consistently slow and interpretative music is the Fox in Wood Green on Thursdays. But they generally do this by avoiding standard salsa tracks and playing, I dunno, almost pop tracks with a salsa-ish beat - think Will Smith's "Bad Boyz II" title track, that sort of thing.

Next best is probably King's Head (Crouch End), after that I think it's all much of a muchness.

[JoC]

Speaking of musica, went to a salsa night with a live band on Friday, La Sonera Calaveras. Don't know where they're based (Glasgow maybe...?) but they were excellent, good variety of tunes to my novice ears. Recommend keeping an ear out.

(Only drawback to the evening was a lack of space on the dance floor it was so busy, mucho crunching of toesios...)

[stewart38]

for info..............

Only 3 more days until the first of our All Things Latin All-Dayer and, although we have sold over 40 workshop places already, there are still tickets available….



ALL-THINGS LATIN ALL-DAYER

Saturday 26th November 2005 @ LATIN SQUARE, 45 Farringdon Rd, Farringdon, London EC2 from 2pm-2am*

2-9pm classes in KIZOMBA, BACHATA, LAMBAZOUK, REGGAETON & SALSA with teachers including Kwenda Lima, Andrea Stewart, Marisa & Gary, Inaki Fernandes, Niki Britton, Tiz and the rest of the LATIN COLLECTIVE team then club till 2am* with 2 rooms of dance



Room 1: SalsaMax (Cuban and NY style Salsa) with Big Les and guests

Room 2: Viva Brazil (Lambazouk, Samba and Kizomba) with DJ Paolo



FULL PACKAGE which includes a sumptuous latin buffet £25 in advance / £30 on the door (NUS prices £20 and £25 respectively)

PARTY ONLY PACKAGE £7 (non-mem), £5 (mem/with this listing)

JUST PRINT OUT THIS AD TO GET IN AT MEMBERS PRICE ***SPECIAL DISCOUNT VOUCHER***

------------------------

[Anna]

2-9pm classes in KIZOMBA, BACHATA, LAMBAZOUK, REGGAETON & SALSA with teachers including Kwenda Lima, Andrea Stewart, Marisa & Gary, Inaki Fernandes, Niki Britton, Tiz and the rest of the LATIN COLLECTIVE team then club till 2am* with 2 rooms of dance

Don't mean to sound rude but how can they possibly teach people to dance "reggaeton"? Reggaeton is like social hip hop but so much dirtier.. I just don't get how it's actually possible to teach it as a specific dance form?

Although I would like to see all you old people learning how to booty dance :whistle: :rofl:

(Excuse my sick sense of humour hehehe)

[Lynn]

Not going to salsa tonight. Too tired and too fed up de-icing the car and driving in freezing fog (which my village seems to have been almost permenantly shrouded in the past couple of days).

[Anna]

fog? ice? freezing? :really: goodness those things do seem a world away now that its summer time here :whistle:

Just another day in paradise :D

[Lynn]

Yes, apparently about half the class was missing because of the cold weather. It feels like my village has been shrouded in fog since Sun - it does tend to clear in the afternoons - not so far today though.

[JamesGeary]

Don't mean to sound rude but how can they possibly teach people to dance "reggaeton"? Reggaeton is like social hip hop but so much dirtier.. I just don't get how it's actually possible to teach it as a specific dance form?

Although I would like to see all you old people learning how to booty dance :whistle: :rofl:

(Excuse my sick sense of humour hehehe)

Hip Hop must have started that way though. And some got in earlier than others and started to define a structure. And Tango I guess.

[ducasi]

Hey folks,

I didn't bother posting a link to my blog posting for my Salsa class last week (http://ducasi.org/blog/2005/11/24/salsa-week-7/) – it was a bit of a disappointment.

But this week (http://ducasi.org/blog/2005/12/02/salsa-week-8/) was much better, so I figured I would post both now.

There seems to be some confusion over whether we are beginners or improvers. Last week was the last in the 8-week series of beginner's lessons. But our teacher had brought in some "improvers" into our group, as we were ahead of the normal beginners lessons.

So from that you'd think we were now in the middle of the improvers course. Except that last night we were told something along the lines of... "this is the last week of the beginners course, but we'll be going straight into the improvers course, which will last for the next week or two, then after the break for Christmas you can come back to the intermediate, level 3 class."

Which would imply that the improvers course lasts only a couple of weeks... Or that we have actually been covering the material from that course for the last few weeks anyway, so talk of this week, or even last week being the last in the beginners' classes was just nonsense.

Anyway, still to decide whether to do it next year, but I'm feeling more positive about the whole thing at the moment...

Cheers!

[Lynn]

Anyway, still to decide whether to do it next year, but I'm feeling more positive about the whole thing at the moment...That's good!

I don't think I will continue with the salsa next year. Partly because I want to try AT and there are only so many nights I can go out dancing (cost wise as much as time wise) each week. But I am going to a salsa Christmas ball this Saturday - nice venue, demos by Robert Charlemagne and others, and several friends going so I should get some dances. I'm not planning on reversing my usual shy approach of not asking strangers for dances, so aside from my friends, I will see if I actually get asked for any dances (considering a lot of the other women will be younger, prettier and better salsa dancers than me, I'm not expecting too many!)

[jivecat]

(considering a lot of the other women will be younger, prettier and better salsa dancers than me, I'm not expecting too many!)

I find that the best policy is to try to ignore my real or imagined negative points and just go for it! Or focus on how many older, uglier and worse dancers than me are in the room.:devil: It usually brings things into perspective.

I went to my first salsa party night last night. I quite enjoyed it, particularly the lesson and a demo by some sh*t-hot prizewinning couple. People seem much friendlier than the Ceroc crowd because the group's much smaller. However, I couldn't cope with spending 75% of the time standing/ watching/ chatting instead of the 25%, or less, downtime I've got used to in Ceroc.

It took me back to the first year of Ceroc when I was constantly neurotic about who didn't want to dance with me and why, not feeling able to ask strangers to dance because I was a useless beginner etc, etc. It's going to take a certain amount of strength of character to get through this stage, last night I was thinking, "What's the point of learning to salsa if I'm going to spend most of my time at freestyles watching other people having fun." Glower, sulk. No doubt I'll get over it!

[Lynn]

I find that the best policy is to try to ignore my real or imagined negative points and just go for it! Or focus on how many older, uglier and worse dancers than me are in the room.:devil: It usually brings things into perspective.I'm not being pessimistic, just realistic. And there will be about 1/2 dozen male friends of mine there so I know I will get some dances. With the level my salsa is at, that might be enough! :blush:

[LMC]

I went to a salsa club in Austin (Texas) on Friday. There was no lesson that night (I was out with office people on the lesson evenings), but the venue was non-smoking and filled with all ages and sizes. The natives were friendly - without having seen me dance, some complete stranger did come and ask me. When he asked "Do you come here often?" and led a few too many close moves I realised that the sleaze element is similar to salsa clubs in the UK though :devil:

The music was superb. Shame my salsa was the exact opposite - but it was a fun night :nice: - didn't get many dances but it was a really nice atmosphere, felt far more like an MJ night here.

[Lynn]

So what did I think of the salsa Christmas Ball?

It was lovely arriving (with 2 men, always nice!) on a very mild evening with a firework display across the Lagan - set a real party tone to start the night. The venue was great - curved glass wall looking over the Lagan, nicely decorated and for the first time at any salsa event I have been to - non-smoking! :D The extra dance floor did start to come apart at the seams a bit and I heard several people say it was too slippy (it didn't seem fast to me at all, they are maybe just so used to having to dance on sticky and dirty floors?) but there was space.

The only drawback to the venue was that the seating was at either end and people tended to stay at one end or the other most of the night. And although it wasn't too crowded, some of the floorcraft was awful and I still got kicked and thumped several times. The DJ segued every track, which is bad enough in MJ, but worse with salsa music - I saw a lot of people stopping and going 'oh is that the end? Is this a different song?'. Rather amusing really.

There were 4 performances, which included contemporary dances by local uni dance students, which I really enjoyed.

I was up for enough salsa dances for my level of competence (not very good!) and it was great to catch up with friends I hadn't seen for a while - though the music was too loud to have a proper conversation.

A great evening, I'm glad I went.:D

[jivecat]

I felt a bit despondent at the end of last term's salsa classes. However I have at last danced freestyle with one of the teachers (from another venue) and he was very helpful and encouraging. So I am starting Level 3 tonight. I figure I may as well complete all four levels rather than just give up.

A comparison with Ceroc - the teaching has been organised into 4 prepaid sets of lessons - Level 1 to 4. We are encouraged to do these at our own pace, to repeat a level if desired, or to take a break from them. When they have all been completed I think we can continue to attend the classes on a pay-as-you-go basis. Each level contains new material which builds on the old, and everyone seems to clearly recognise that they would be floundering if they haven't mastered the earlier stuff first. The venue has two rooms so classes can run concurrently so that L1, 2 & 3 plus merengue/bachata can be taught on the same night. Not sure when L4 gets fitted in. I'd quite like to see something similar in Ceroc, although it does require 2 rooms, and a second teacher to take the concurrent class. I suppose a Ceroc evening could consist of 3 or 4 half hour classes, ranging from beginners to advanced, say at 8:00, 9:00 and 10:00. There would still be time for everyone to have some freestyle, they would only need to have one teacher and the teacher probably wouldn't be teaching for any longer in total. Trouble is, if the classes were held in a separate room they would be seen as optional and lots of people would not bother to do them, whether they needed to or not.

Oh goody. An hour of groin-grinding with merengue power-house, Wilson Castral, this evening. Caliente!