Upgrade Windows ME to Windows XP Home

[Clive Long]

Hello,

A cousin (of mine) has a really flaky Windows ME box - it hangs , i.e. does not respond to keyboard or mouse, but still displays the "active" windows. One has to power down the PC to recover. There is no pattern nor obvious "triggers" to the hang

The PC has got 1.1Ghz proc and 128MB RAM

He wants to keep it for his kids to run games.

Flakiness may be due to Viruses (Norton Anti-Virus expired long, long ago) or Win ME (heard bad stories about this) or falky hardware (how would one know?)

I have run a Microsoft memory diagnostic for a while and that runs clean

So we are thinking about upgrading to Win XP Home.

Will XP Home run OK in 128Mb or should we put in another 128Mb?

Is this upgrade OK or should we nuke the disk and start with a clean install of XP Home?

Amazon want 95 squiddlies for this upgrade software - that's tantamount to theft in my book.

There seem to be lots of sellers of XP Home media and licences on EBay wanting around £25 to £40 - but I can't see how that can work out because I guess MSoft has a strangle-hold on the retail price of all its software. So how can these sellers source valid media and licence keys for that money?

Any ideas on other options to perform this upgrade?

Thanks

Clive

[ducasi]

Flakiness may be due to Viruses (Norton Anti-Virus expired long, long ago) or Win ME (heard bad stories about this) or falky hardware (how would one know?) Likely to be just general Windows 9x flakiness.

Will XP Home run OK in 128Mb or should we put in another 128Mb? You want to aim for 512MB, but 384MB (i.e. 128 + 256) would be OK.

Is this upgrade OK or should we nuke the disk and start with a clean install of XP Home? Nuking is always the best option, but you should be able to install as an upgrade, or in parallel with ME.

There seem to be lots of sellers of XP Home media and licences on EBay wanting around £25 to £40 - but I can't see how that can work out because I guess MSoft has a strangle-hold on the retail price of all its software. So how can these sellers source valid media and licence keys for that money? They're probably selling dodgy OEM copies... I assume you know how this works, but in case anyone doesn't... Microsoft sells cheaper OEM licences of Windows to computer manufacturers. These licences are not meant to be available to the public, but there's always someone trying to make a buck by breaking their contact with MS.

Any ideas on other options to perform this upgrade? Buy a second hard disk and install it on that, then put the original back in as a "D" drive.

Hope this helps...

(BTW, this thread really, really belongs in the new Geek's corner forum. :flower:)

[Clive Long]

Hope this helps...
As always :worthy:


(BTW, this thread really, really belongs in the new Geek's corner forum. :flower:)
Oooooh, ooooh, ooooh, Mr. Greebly (now where's that from :confused: )

That slipped right under the ol' radar.

What a smart idea.

Can a kind moderator ship this thread please? (I'll slap a complaint on it - hopefully that will put the spot-light on it)


CRL

[LMC]

since it's not in Geeks corner at the time of posting...

<<<< streaks through thread >>>>

[David Franklin]

Amazon want 95 squiddlies for this upgrade software - that's tantamount to theft in my book.You can buy a completely legal OEM licensed version of XP Home for about £50 + vat here (http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?product_uid=66489). The catch is you have to buy it with a piece of computer hardware - from the website:

Microsoft OEM Operating system software MUST be purchased with a non-peripheral hardware component or fully assembled computer system. Non-peripheral hardware consists of a motherboard, graphics card, memory module, hard disk, keyboard or mouse. Full retail boxed products must be ordered if no hardware/PC system is to accompany the sale.
But, you can buy a mouse from the same place for 50p!!! (http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?product_uid=80418).

The main caveat is that you're more limited about moving an OEM license to a new machine (i.e. you can't). I'm not sure how easy it is to do so with a non-OEM license either though.

[El Salsero Gringo]

You can buy a completely legal OEM licensed version of XP Home for about £50 + vat here (http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?product_uid=66489). The catch is you have to buy it with a piece of computer hardware - from the website:

But, you can buy a mouse from the same place for 50p!!! (http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?product_uid=80418).

The main caveat is that you're more limited about moving an OEM license to a new machine (i.e. you can't). I'm not sure how easy it is to do so with a non-OEM license either though.I wonder if it's OK as long as you move the mouse you bought at the same time to the new system, too?

[Russell Saxby]

Flakiness may be due to Viruses (Norton Anti-Virus expired long, long ago) or Win ME (heard bad stories about this) or falky hardware (how would one know?)

Hi Clive

Don't know the answers to your questions I am afraid - just thought I would chip in and say that I found Windows ME a real mare, used to hang all the time :mad: esp when I had Norton on the pc.

I ended up loaded XP Home and now use McAfee - all in all a much happier computing experience.

Good luck

Russell

[David Franklin]

I wonder if it's OK as long as you move the mouse you bought at the same time to the new system, too?Apologies if I'm missing the deadpan sarcasm emoticon, but no, it's not OK. As far as I'm aware, the OS will fail the registration procedure if you try to register twice on machines with different motherboards. (There's an appeal procedure - but you have to convince Microsoft that it's no longer possible to get a replacement motherboard of the same type. Or something like that). And you're only allowed 2 or 3 "major" changes (e.g. CPU type, memory, HD) in a certain time period (something like 3 months) or it will fail to start up.

Though there is actually a certain logic to your suggestion, I don't think Microsoft agree...

I've "up-cloned" my HD from 40GB to 120GB and XP was fine about it, however.

[azande]

Apologies if I'm missing the deadpan sarcasm emoticon, but no, it's not OK. As far as I'm aware, the OS will fail the registration procedure if you try to register twice on machines with different motherboards. (There's an appeal procedure - but you have to convince Microsoft that it's no longer possible to get a replacement motherboard of the same type. Or something like that). And you're only allowed 2 or 3 "major" changes (e.g. CPU type, memory, HD) in a certain time period (something like 3 months) or it will fail to start up.

Though there is actually a certain logic to your suggestion, I don't think Microsoft agree...

I've "up-cloned" my HD from 40GB to 120GB and XP was fine about it, however.
And you still pay for Micro$**t products?!?!:eek: :devil:

[David Franklin]

And you still pay for Micro$**t products?!?!:eek: :devil:Of course, the issue doesn't arise with Apple, 'cos it's not like you can go and change your motherboard for the latest special from MSI, can you? And how many times has Apple charged just for upgrades to OS X now? Plus OS X (Intel) looks like it's going to be so far in bed with DRM it will need a marriage certificate. So best bet is OS X is going to be even worse than Windows in that respect.

[Clive Long]

And you still pay for Micro$**t products?!?!:eek: :devil:
I would dearly love to run exclusively (ooh that's screaming for a split infinitive) a Linux desktop.

There are some amazingly sophisticated and stable applications that run natively under Linux (and probably other environments) for example Open Office that I believe at version 2.0 can read all the MS Office formats. I must be able to read and manipulate accurately Word and Excel files sent to me.

I have played with GIMP to do some incredibly simplistic image manipulation and get the feeling it is a rich, deep and extensible application.

I can run Skype client, Audacity, VNC, Yahoo IM all natively under Linux.

Linux on a laptop is my file server and backup device. Linux does not hang. Linux does not crash. (ok maybe pushing it a tinsy bit)

Unfortunately there are some applications that, I believe, only run on Micro$**t OS and/or their file formats are not readable by functionally equivalent open source options

For me:


MS-Project
QuickenXG
The scanner driver for my HP model
The Map loading app into my (very old) Palm Pilot
and some games


Also if I go to a client they will accept my WinXP laptop within their network if I load their security / anti-virus stuff.

Hence, I retain reluctantly a WinXP laptop.

I know Wine exists to run Windows apps within Linux but it looks a fearsome job to set it up and I ain't got the time to pour into that.

Clive

[Clive Long]

Hi Clive

Don't know the answers to your questions I am afraid - just thought I would chip in and say that I found Windows ME a real mare, used to hang all the time :mad: esp when I had Norton on the pc.

I ended up loaded XP Home and now use McAfee - all in all a much happier computing experience.

Good luck

Russell
That is reassuring and gives me confidence we are going in the right direction. I have a stick of 128Mb knocking around that might be compatible with his motherboard - we'll stick that in his m/c and see how the baby runs.

And 3 McAfee licences at &#163;49 rather than &#163;39 per Norton instance - we'll be following your path Russell.

I will soon have my 5th spare mouse. David Franklin - you diamond geezer.

CRL

[azande]

Of course, the issue doesn't arise with Apple, 'cos it's not like you can go and change your motherboard for the latest special from MSI, can you? And how many times has Apple charged just for upgrades to OS X now? Plus OS X (Intel) looks like it's going to be so far in bed with DRM it will need a marriage certificate. So best bet is OS X is going to be even worse than Windows in that respect.
Regarding the DRM issue, have a look at this article (http://daringfireball.net/2005/08/trusted).

The article is from the bginning of August and there is a link at the bottom of the article pointing to Longhorn/Vista TPM. The link is broken but you can have a look at this (http://search.microsoft.com/search/results.aspx?st=b&na=88&View=en-us&qu=tpm+security)

We are at number four in terms of paying upgrades to the OS, I've only paid for two, 10.1 and 10.3. Nothing forces you to upgrade, Apple still release security updates not only for the current .x version, and I can istall my copy of OS X on as many computers as I like (as long as it is only one at a time as the T&Cs state).

[David Franklin]

We are at number four in terms of paying upgrades to the OS, I've only paid for two, 10.1 and 10.3. Nothing forces you to upgrade, Apple still release security updates not only for the current .x version, and I can istall my copy of OS X on as many computers as I like (as long as it is only one at a time as the T&Cs state).Unless you are a software developer, in which case you need to ensure compatibility etc. Seems every time Apple upgrades the OS, we have a new set of non-trivial changes to make. Still, at least with OS X the Mac finally has memory protection, only a few years after Windows.

Seriously - the Mac does a lot of stuff right, but it certainly isn't perfect. And Mac evangelists tend to keep more than a little quiet about the problems. I mean, I actually didn't believe the person who told me about the memory protection thing - because that was a seriously lacklustre piece of design, and yet no-one on the Mac side ever seemed to talk about it. (Or for a more up-to-date issue, the whole about-face on x86 after insisting PowerPC was faster).

Conversely, Windows XP is a lot more stable than people give it credit for these days. (Internet Explorer, however, is still a complete and utter disaster).

[azande]

I'm not a software developer, just a user, but I'm assuming (and correct me if I'm wrong) that compatibility is an issue indipendent of the OS.

I actually don't believe in benchmark tests to support one microprocessor or the other, I just go by usability, UI, availability of good software and stability.
I use Windows every day at work and a Mac at home, I started using computers with DOS and Norton Commander ( :eek: ) and is only through experience that I choose to use Apple products above Microsoft.

Linux is a case apart, I would like to be able to learn how to use it it but to be honest I really can't be arsed, I'd rather spend the time learning something else. And on OS X I can use all the mainstream Unix tools (Vi, Emacs, Apache, etc.).
I have a copy of Ubuntu, which according to what I read on the Web is the easier distro to install and the one that gives less headaches to non-geeks (yeah right, like I'm not one :wink: ) but it is still in the envelope it came in. Maybe one day....

[WittyBird]

I have played with GIMP to do some incredibly simplistic image manipulation and get the feeling it is a rich, deep and extensible application.


I bet you have played with GIMP... :grin:
Sweetie you need (with all due respect) to obtain proper information and liberate it from ' recognised sources' instead of creating a willy waving contest.:eek:

but I am just a girl looking at a thread knowing she can help asking a boy to use the correct channels :what:

[Clive Long]

I bet you have played with GIMP... :grin:
Sweetie you need (with all due respect) to obtain proper information and liberate it from ' recognised sources' instead of creating a willy waving contest.:eek:

but I am just a girl looking at a thread knowing she can help asking a boy to use the correct channels :what:
What on earth are you going on about?

[Russell Saxby]

I bet you have played with GIMP... :grin:
Sweetie you need (with all due respect) to obtain proper information and liberate it from ' recognised sources' instead of creating a willy waving contest.:eek:

Ok if it is to be a contest then please can you ensure the following:-

1 - Warm up area is provided :D
2 - No smoking within 20 yards of warm up and competition area :innocent:
3 - Waving area is well lit :wink:
4 - Results are posted speedily, so that competitors who do not progress can relax :whistle:
5 - DVD's are produced on time with professional German dubbing :clap:

Please note I have skipped any reference to WWAS :eek:

and P.S. I of course, am a HOTSHOT, and will therefore not be entering :cool:

[Russell Saxby]

What on earth are you going on about?

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

[WittyBird]

What on earth are you going on about?

Absolutely no idea but one will endeavour to find out :rofl:

[azande]

Absolutely no idea but one will endeavour to find out :rofl:
:what: :confused:

Edit: If you don't know what you are going on about, do you at least know what you are on? :wink:

[David Franklin]

I'm not a software developer, just a user, but I'm assuming (and correct me if I'm wrong) that compatibility is an issue indipendent of the OS. You're wrong! :wink: The OS is typically the biggest compatibility issue (for major application programmers, at any rate. Perl et. al. is somewhat more OS agnostic). Of course, the OS can be written to be compatible with older versions, but once a new OS version is on release, it's not really acceptable to tell customers "well, it works on Panther, so it should work on Tiger" - we have to have tested it. And we have to have all versions available to deal with support issues.


I actually don't believe in benchmark tests to support one microprocessor or the other,No, and to be fair, a lot of Mac users choose it for the UI etc. But it's hard to ignore that Apple insisted PowerPC was far faster than Intel against the experience of nearly everyone I know (a few applications, such as Photoshop excepted), until they decided to switch, after which Intel was suddenly faster than PPC! :what: (Yes, Microsoft lie too - but we knew that...)

[azande]

I just read your answer and what I posted, and I didn't explain myself in the right way. What I meant is that no matter what OS you are developing for, you still have compatibility issues. You still need to test your software for a new version, be it Windows, Unix, Linux, OS X etc.

[David Franklin]

I just read your answer and what I posted, and I didn't explain myself in the right way. What I meant is that no matter what OS you are developing for, you still have compatibility issues. You still need to test your software for a new version, be it Windows, Unix, Linux, OS X etc.True, though you can usually get away with relatively little testing for a minor version change - other than a couple of network security issues, I don't think we had any problems with SP1 or SP2. Whereas OS9/OS X/Jaguar/Panther/Tiger/Carbon/Quartz/Cocoa has required considerable work. To be fair, the relative stability of Windows is as much a reflection on MS's late delivery of Longhorn/Vista than anything else, but rapid changes in the OS aren't generally good news for developers.

To get back to "having to upgrade" - the point is, developers do have to. But they also can't afford to support lots of different OS versions, so from what I hear, surprisingly big vendors will be telling customers - "You'll have to upgrade to at least Panther if you want to use the next version of our software".

Although the situation is even worse with MS Office. It's what some people call "upgrade cancer": one company gets new PCs with a new bundled version of office, and all the people they do business with ends up having to upgrade so they can read files from them! (So the upgrade does indeed spread like a cancer).

[El Salsero Gringo]

True, though you can usually get away with relatively little testing for a minor version change - other than a couple of network security issues, I don't think we had any problems with SP1 or SP2. Whereas OS9/OS X/Jaguar/Panther/Tiger/Carbon/Quartz/Cocoa has required considerable work. To be fair, the relative stability of Windows is as much a reflection on MS's late delivery of Longhorn/Vista than anything else, but rapid changes in the OS aren't generally good news for developers.

To get back to "having to upgrade" - the point is, developers do have to. But they also can't afford to support lots of different OS versions, so from what I hear, surprisingly big vendors will be telling customers - "You'll have to upgrade to at least Panther if you want to use the next version of our software".

Although the situation is even worse with MS Office. It's what some people call "upgrade cancer": one company gets new PCs with a new bundled version of office, and all the people they do business with ends up having to upgrade so they can read files from them! (So the upgrade does indeed spread like a cancer).
Can you imagine?

"I can't seem to lead you anymore - I'm dancing Ceroc 2000, service pack 3. Haven't you upgraded yet?"

"No, my franchisee says Ceroc 2000 isn't stable enough - he's still running Ceroc 98."

"Ceroc 98? But that's no longer supported!"

"Tell me about it, I was trying to dance with a Ceroc 2005 beginner the other day. She'd never heard of the Wurlitzer...."

[David Franklin]

"I can't seem to lead you anymore - I'm dancing Ceroc 2000, service pack 3. Haven't you upgraded yet?"

"Tell me about it, I was trying to dance with a Ceroc 2005 beginner the other day. She'd never heard of the Wurlitzer...."[/Too true... But at least there's still a broad level of compatibility between the Ceroc versions. I was trying to establish a connection with a Leroc2000 dancer, and it was a right nightmare, I can tell you. I tried a normal start-up using a semi-circle, but we had all kinds of problems with the initial hand shaking, and the two systems are different foot-endian, so we had all kinds of problems establishing a common protocol! Then half way through the dance, she started complaining that I wasn't sending the correct signals, and when I tried using my hand to indicate the beat, she kept telling me my connection was bouncing... :tears:

[robd]

Eeek! On this scale, I am still dancing Ceroc 3.1 for Workgroups.

And what's the dancing equivalent of the BSOD?


Can you imagine?

"I can't seem to lead you anymore - I'm dancing Ceroc 2000, service pack 3. Haven't you upgraded yet?"

"No, my franchisee says Ceroc 2000 isn't stable enough - he's still running Ceroc 98."

"Ceroc 98? But that's no longer supported!"

"Tell me about it, I was trying to dance with a Ceroc 2005 beginner the other day. She'd never heard of the Wurlitzer...."

[Dreadful Scathe]

Of course, the issue doesn't arise with Apple, 'cos it's not like you can go and change your motherboard for the latest special from MSI, can you?

PC's are the most popular computer because they are so modular. Microsoft have for years forced PC suppliers to only ship Microsoft products through licencing penalties - if you cant compete you cant stay in business. They made Internet Explorer the most popular browser by making that part of the OS and Windows Media Player, now its anti-spyware tools - all of these help make them more money through development and support.

XP and its horrible activation system tries to control what you do with your computer, as does the nasty warning you get when you try and use a driver not checked by microsoft. If armed guards for every copy of windows was cost effective, they'd do that too and shoot you if you tried to do anything slightly supsicious.

ok, i took that too far ;) ;)


But at least there's still a broad level of compatibility...

:rofl:

[Clive Long]

Upgrade of ME to XP home went like a dream

256Mb loaded.

Machine now does not freeze. Internet access not via the ghastly MSN viewer



One happy cousin.

Thanks people.


Clive