'SUPER CLUBS' ... do they exist

[Gus]

I started thinking about this in line with a 'defence' of Jango/Hipsters type thread.

Its become a bit of trend on the Forum to try to be sarcastic about concepts such a Jango. Messr James made such a biting comment in a debate we were having despite the fact he's yet to visit. In Scotland I was a bit disappointed to have a few people I thought should have know better also go down the mock-lauding line of commentary.

You know the funny thing about Jango? Well ... its just a club, like any other. DJ plays some tracks, people come and do a lesson ... etc etc. There is NOTHING different to any club in the UK! Just like Hipsters, Fulham Town Hall and the other clubs that are sometimes refereed to in hallowed terms, the club itself is just a club. What MAKES it special is how individuals feel about that club. I would suggest that there is no such thing as 'the best club' ... but you will find people violently promoting their own club as 'the bets' ... because to them their club IS the best.

Thats how it is with Jango, Edinburgh, Chester and wherever. The people who go to Jango happen to like the way that Kate humiliates Will, Wills bad jokes, the fact that some of the footwork is IMPOSSIBLE, TWK's particular set of music ... and some of his real weird experiments (one played, never tried again). What happens at the club would not appeal to some people ... but it does to the regulars hence their love for the club.

What I'm trying to say, and in a real clumsy way, it that the 'known' clubs are no better than other clubs and Jango certainly doesn't see itself like that. Its not trying to be 'special per se ... if you like what they do, great, if you don’t thats also great. BUT, why slag off something just because its a little different?

[David Bailey]

Ah...

Over to me I believe (this is a long one, folks, tune off now or skip to the end if you want the even-more-witty-than-normal bits)


I started thinking about this in line with a 'defence' of Jango/Hipsters type thread.

Its become a bit of trend on the Forum to try to be sarcastic about concepts such a Jango. Messr James made such a biting comment in a debate we were having despite the fact he's yet to visit. In Scotland I was a bit disappointed to have a few people I thought should have know better also go down the mock-lauding line of commentary.
I'm pretty sure I've never been sarcastic about the concept (well, OK, maybe once or twice :blush: ), but more about the attitude. It's also possible I may have talked to a few people who've been there, despite being a public leper and all :tears:

But, this sarcasm is pretty much my standard reflex reaction to any all-positive promotion - being a cynical old fart, I always think there are some downsides to any venue, anywhere. And the fact that no-one is posting the downsides makes me suspicious, I don't trust a reaction that's all sunny, it smacks of cultism to me. I want to see someone post a warts-and-all review, then I'll begin to believe in the hype.

I've never, ever, been to any dance venue which can be described as always perfect all the time, and I refuse to believe Jango is. If someone were to post some balanced feedback about the place, I'd shut up about it, my sniping is sometimes bores even me (not all the time, of course, I am at least witty as hell).


You know the funny thing about Jango? Well ... its just a club, like any other. DJ plays some tracks, people come and do a lesson ... etc etc. There is NOTHING different to any club in the UK!
And if people said that rather than treating it like hallowed ground / continual party-time, I'd have no problems with it.


{ snip stuff I totally agree with }
I agree.


What happens at the club would not appeal to some people ... but it does to the regulars hence their love for the club.
With respect, most of the posts don't convey that information, they sound more like "JOIN US!"

Now this may be simple enthusiasm, but it annoys me that there are maybe a half-dozen other MJ clubs in the London area on a Monday night, all of which are more popular than Jango, and they never seem to get a look in - reading the forum, . Are the 50+ people in Jango more important than the hundreds who go to other places?

I've never been to Jango because it's too far, I have commitments, and I have a very nice place just 1 mile up the road, which I like.

But, I also don't go because it feels elitist to me, and all these "We're lovely welcoming and friendly, and if you disagree we'll break your legs you b&stard" (c. Stewart38) comments just reinforce that impression.

Brutally, I think it's a social club for most of the London forumites, which is why it gets the exposure it does. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but if forumites weren't so prevalent, it wouldn't be talked about half so much.

Now, myself and ESG happen to go to the same venue (obviously not a surprise since we are in fact the same person - luckily he's busy demo-ing now, so I can type on the Forum). And we do mention it, possibly several times a month on occasion. And clearly we like it, because we go to it.

But we don't go on and on and on and on about it, day after day after day (Well, I don't, I dunno about ESG). And we don't turn round and frantically defend it (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=164142#post164142) after each slight negative comment. Who knows, some negative comments may in fact have some basis in truth, or at least reflect a person's honest perceptions, and should be respected as such.

For example, I can't imagine Wittybird being intimidated by anything short of an H-bomb, so if she says something might possibly be cliquey (or "clicky" even, nice one), I'm inclined to at least respect her views. She may be wrong, but she's not a fool, and she says what she feels.


What I'm trying to say, and in a real clumsy way, it that the 'known' clubs are no better than other clubs and Jango certainly doesn't see itself like that. Its not trying to be 'special per se ... if you like what they do, great, if you don’t thats also great. BUT, why slag off something just because its a little different?
I don't go out of my way (mostly) to slag it off - but when people post threads like, oooh, for example, "Jango - top night in London?", mention it in every other sentence, etc., it just provokes me.

I'm bad, I know...

I want to see different venues succeed, especially those offering differences. Nosequins, BFFF, Jango, not-Hipsters - by ZW's "grandchildren rule", we should promote and celebrate diversity in dancing. But I dislike being treated as a loon, simply for having no particular desire to go to a venue halfway across London when there's a lovely one round the corner.

(And FWIW, I very nearly went to Kent House last week, so who knows, this time next year and I might actually make it there...)

[WittyBird]

Ah...

Over to me I believe (this is a long one, folks, tune off now or skip to the end if you want the even-more-witty-than-normal bits)

:rofl: trying to tell me something Mr Devilishly Juvenile? :D


For example, I can't imagine Wittybird being intimidated by anything short of an H-bomb, so if she says something might possibly be cliquey (or "clicky" even, nice one), I'm inclined to at least respect her views. She may be wrong, but she's not a fool, and she says what she feels
rong? rong? Inocent lickle moi? nah ewe must bee mistoken :rolleyes:
tel ewe wat its kwolity taht counts :rofl:

now correct all that oh pedantic forum god

[LMC]

I will probably get H-bombed for this...

The last time I was at Jango - for the T-jive - I met someone I dance with at another venue. He is not on the forum. And although he knew some of the dancers there, he was very negative about it, telling me he found people unfriendly/unwelcoming.

I KNOW that nobody on here who goes to Jango/T-jive is deliberately exclusive (no-one in a clique ever is :rolleyes: ). But it is easy to get carried away when you're in a large group of friends and 'forget' that there will be people there who don't get the in jokes or have history with the group - they aren't being deliberately ignored - but they are being sidelined by default.

To be brutally honest? - I've never been to Jango on a Monday. But I've been to a couple of the tea dances and I love watching people there, the dancing is aspirational. And I always have a good time. But I feel that I only get dances there because people know me - it certainly ain't because I'm a good dancer. It may not feel like a clique when you're in it. But it can look like a clique to outsiders. And I believe that if I wasn't on the forum, I would be just as discouraged as the guy I've mentioned.

I am not naming him on here - I want the flaming all to myself - but I've been brave and PM'd Will with who it is.

[Tessalicious]

I will probably get H-bombed for this...

The last time I was at Jango - for the T-jive - I met someone I dance with at another venue. He is not on the forum. And although he knew some of the dancers there, he was very negative about it, telling me he found people unfriendly/unwelcoming.

I KNOW that nobody on here who goes to Jango/T-jive is deliberately exclusive (no-one in a clique ever is :rolleyes: ). But it is easy to get carried away when you're in a large group of friends and 'forget' that there will be people there who don't get the in jokes or have history with the group - they aren't being deliberately ignored - but they are being sidelined by default.

To be brutally honest? - I've never been to Jango on a Monday. But I've been to a couple of the tea dances and I love watching people there, the dancing is aspirational. And I always have a good time. But I feel that I only get dances there because people know me - it certainly ain't because I'm a good dancer. It may not feel like a clique when you're in it. But it can look like a clique to outsiders. And I believe that if I wasn't on the forum, I would be just as discouraged as the guy I've mentioned.

I am not naming him on here - I want the flaming all to myself - but I've been brave and PM'd Will with who it is.
I can totally agree with that.

Since joining the forum, and coming along to T-Jive as someone who wanted to meet in person various members of the forumite Jango brigade, I have loved the T-jive whenever I have been there (although I haven't ever made it on a Monday).

But that is in stark contrast to the feeling I had when I went the first time, about a year ago, with a male friend with whom I have danced both ballroom tango and jive, when we thought that it might be fun to try something a little different now that I was in London. Although when we got there, we did the class, and got on pretty well with it, the only person I knew there other than the partner I took was RK. He did his best to introduce me to a few people, but no-one was particularly interested in some random pair of teenagers who weren't forumites or Jango regulars (not naming names simply because I don't remember).

Now, I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing - part of the special thing about Jango is that it is a big group of friends, and that's why I love the T-Jives now, and why it has such a loyal following - but you must admit that that kind of big happy family can be just a teensy-weensy little bit intimidating to an outsider.

So anyway, my point (to try to bring this back on thread), is that Jango is a SuperClub in the same way as Superman is a superhero - absolutely great at what it does, and really special if you know the secret, but enigmatic and unapproachable if you're just another Joe/Jo public.

[Gus]

So anyway, my point (to try to bring this back on thread), is that Jango is a SuperClub in the same way as Superman is a superhero - absolutely great at what it does, and really special if you know the secret, but enigmatic and unapproachable if you're just another Joe/Jo public.Hold on ... thats exactly NOT what the thread is about. For a start there is VERY little connection between the Monday night vibe and the T-Jive Sundays!

Jango is NOT repeat NOT a superclub ... just a club that plays a particular genre of music. There are people who have been dancing less than 6 months and thos who have danced a lot longer. Like ANY other club, if you just stay on the sidelines, wel then you cant always expect people to always ask you. I think somewhere like Fulham can be more intimidating (IMHO).

[Feelingpink]

I will probably get H-bombed for this...

The last time I was at Jango - for the T-jive - I met someone I dance with at another venue. He is not on the forum. And although he knew some of the dancers there, he was very negative about it, telling me he found people unfriendly/unwelcoming.

I KNOW that nobody on here who goes to Jango/T-jive is deliberately exclusive (no-one in a clique ever is :rolleyes: ). But it is easy to get carried away when you're in a large group of friends and 'forget' that there will be people there who don't get the in jokes or have history with the group - they aren't being deliberately ignored - but they are being sidelined by default.

To be brutally honest? - I've never been to Jango on a Monday. But I've been to a couple of the tea dances and I love watching people there, the dancing is aspirational. And I always have a good time. But I feel that I only get dances there because people know me - it certainly ain't because I'm a good dancer. It may not feel like a clique when you're in it. But it can look like a clique to outsiders. And I believe that if I wasn't on the forum, I would be just as discouraged as the guy I've mentioned. ...

I sometimes think that a venue/event feels 'cliquey' when the percentage of people who don't seem friendly/don't ask you to dance reaches a critical level for you. For instance, I'm a Jango regular and have been going to the TJives for yonks as well. Do all the blokes at both events ask me to dance? Nope. In fact, there are a few regular guys at the TJives who know exactly who I am and pretty much refuse to even make eye contact with me and certainly wouldn't ask me to dance. But there are enough other dancers who I know who will ask me and I'll ask them and anyone I don't know ... so I have a good time. I don't expect that everyone will ask me - and there are some people who I'll chat to but we don't dance together, because for some reason it just isn't that great for either of us.

I think there are times for all of us when we feel as if we aren't one of the 'cool kids' and that we wish we were - if you try, you can always find people who look as if they are having more fun than you.

LMC, I'm sorry that you and your friend didn't feel too welcome at the TJives. I wonder what your critical mass would be - how many friendly faces it would take to change you and your friend's views? Or bring along your own mates? It's what I sometimes do at other venues.

[Blues Dancer]

Hold on ... thats exactly NOT what the thread is about.
From just reading the thread, it seems to me to be pretty much exactly what the thread is about.

From yet another outsiders point of view (having never been), I have to say that the endless posts about 'Jango' have put me off, rather than encouraged me to go. I also know someone (maybe it's the same person!) who has been, and found it rather cliquey, and has never been back.

I have been to Reading a couple of times, and didn't find much I appreciated in the music there, and also didn't really get on with 'the Kenobe dance experience' set at Southport in the blues room either, so that isn't really drawing me either (it may just be that I'm not good enough to appreciate his choices of course).


And we don't turn round and frantically defend it after each slight negative comment.
Spot on there though David. Although, Gus did wait 11 minutes after Tess's comment. A minor miracle of self control I think!


Of course, I'm pleased for Gus (and the other people that go there), that you've found a venue that you enjoy so much. I just wish that I didn't have to read about it quite so often on here. I'm not good with dealing with religious evangelicism either.

I do understand that I also have the right not to read about it. But it's difficult to find out that I want not to read it, until after I've read it of course.

[under par]

Now, I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing - part of the special thing about Jango is that it is a big group of friends, and that's why I love the T-Jives now, and why it has such a loyal following - but you must admit that that kind of big happy family can be just a teensy-weensy little bit intimidating to an outsider.



Any newcomer to any new scene in any walk of life can feel intimidated because what they are experiencing is new.

Just because they feel that way does not mean in any way that the scene involved is necesarily bad. Go a few times and the newness works off honest!!!

I have been to several T-jives and quite a lot of Jangos on Monday.

I left there tonight at 11 pm and was able to thank almost every woman in the hall for the dances I had had.

The hall is small and anybody who attends regularly will IMHO become a welcomed member of what is a small sub group of MJ.

The music is different to any Ceroc venue and the teaching is mainly MJ with a fragrance of Tango.

This is not everyones cup of tea but for those that enjoy it, WOW!!!

I have a personal preference for TWKs music and find Will and Kate at Jango and Amir and Kate at T-Jive amusing, self deprecating and not in the least pompous, which considering their obvious skill and talent for dance is lovely to see.


Variety being the spice of life LONG LIVE independants whoever they are, Jango, Andy Magregor with Rocsters in Sussex and Colin Shaul with his Dorking set up in Surrey to name a few excellent examples of non Ceroc variety that I appreciate on the South coast.

PS I am not anti Ceroc and feel that any venue will seem intimidating to newcomers...when I first went to Fulham, Surbiton and Ealing I felt intimidated but with a few more visits they all seem the same, just a group of dancers enjoying thier dancing.

Don't knock any venue until you have been half a dozen times and given as good as you get..

Enough from me now....enjoy your dancing where ever !!:yeah: :yeah:

[Swinging bee]

SUPERCLUBS ...NAH! I liken it to the "Kings new clothes" syndrome.

[under par]

SUPERCLUBS ...NAH! I liken it to the "Kings new clothes" syndrome.

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

[Paul F]

I didnt realise that Jango was mentioned so much outside of the Jango thread :blush: Im sure it may be partly down to me.
From now on I will TRY and keep my 'affair' with Jango to the thread ...but I cant promise :nice:

[KatieR]

Being 'hard core' Jango as a certain person who shall remain nameless (...DJ :whistle: ) called me recently... I feel I have quite a bit to say on previous posts on this thread...


I've never, ever, been to any dance venue which can be described as always perfect all the time, and I refuse to believe Jango is. ).

No body at any time has ever said that Jango is perfect... I have to admit, its attitudes like these that really bug me... and its probably the reason why people like yourselves may possibly be shunned at such venues because you do bag it so much so that the people that love it dont want to talk to you.


balanced feedback about the place,

I love it, I love the style of dance we do there, the music is awesome and yes I have become really great friends with most of the people there. As FP has said Im very rarely asked to dance myself and most often have to ask guys to dance. If you wanted to force me to say something negative about it then sometimes the floor can get a little crowded as it is only a small dance floor. But most people there know something about floor craft so it doesn't really become an issue.

Its not people that we are not accepting of its attitudes. I think you would find that if you went there with a positive attitude not a they are trying to convert me attitude then you would be more than welcome. Take Dizzy for example, she has only been coming to Jango for maybe 3 weeks but already fits in because she always has a happy, excited and non judgemental attitude, Paul F, another newbie to Jango... sometimes he may go over the top in his posts but I dont feel that he has tried to convert anyone. He has just discovered what we all love about it.


But I feel that I only get dances there because people know me..

But isn't this the case practically for anyone, anywhere?? Most people I ask to dance are people I know.... most people that ask me are people that know me. If you sit in a corner with a scowl on your face, your arms crossed with a look of thunder and a preconceived idea as to what to expect (which some people who complain do) yes, it is true, that no one is going to ask you to dance... but that is the same for any venue. It is probably just more obvious somewhere like Jango because there are fewer people. going to Ashtons or Fulham, you have the numbers so you are guaranteed to get asked by people you dont know... its just numbers.


He did his best to introduce me to a few people, but no-one was particularly interested in some random pair of teenagers who weren't forumites or Jango regulars

I find that really hard to believe, and I am really sorry it that is how you were made to feel. To try and explain for myself anyway, sure I come across as outgoing, friendly, extroverted... the original Aussie Firecracker, but I am actually painfully shy. So if I dont rush across and start talking to strange people its mainly because I dont feel confident enough. Especially people that are very good dancers. I used to be terrified of Robert Winter!! I can remember before I actually met you and knew how lovely you were, I was quite frightened of you as well because of how good a dancer you were. Not because I didn't want to talk to you.


Jango... ... just a club that plays a particular genre of music. .. Like ANY other club, if you just stay on the sidelines, wel then you cant always expect people to always ask you.

And the people that go, love the type of music that is played, IMHO, the direction my dancing is heading in just happens to be in that general direction. I really love the music that Twk plays, every dance is a challenge to find the breaks, new styling points, try different things. When I go to a normal Ceroc club, I enjoy it but the music doesn't inspire or challenge me. I just feel like I am executing steps for 3 minutes or so.


and also didn't really get on with 'the Kenobe dance experience' set at Southport in the blues room either, so that isn't really drawing me either (it may just be that I'm not good enough to appreciate his choices of course). [

No, Toby's music isnt for everyone.... and I repeat again, we are not trying to convert those that don't enjoy it, its your opinion, if you dont like it, then the answer is simple.. you dont have to come.

... we are not stopping anyone from posting about their favourite clubs... go ahead... where does everyone like to go? Come on??? all of you that cant stand all us Jangoista elitists, bring it on? where do you like to go and why????

... those that go to Jango and love it.. really LOVE it. its not just dancing to us so if we get carried away, then too bad. Im not going to apologise for loving something and feeling passionate about something and getting offended if people that HAVE NEVER BEEN want to bag it....

[KatieR]

..... and breathe.....

[Paul F]

..... and breathe.....

:worthy:

[under par]

... we are not stopping anyone from posting about their favourite clubs... go ahead... where does everyone like to go? Come on??? all of you that cant stand all us Jangoista elitists, bring it on? where do you like to go and why????

... those that go to Jango and love it.. really LOVE it. its not just dancing to us so if we get carried away, then too bad. Im not going to apologise for loving something and feeling passionate about something and getting offended if people that HAVE NEVER BEEN want to bag it....

Yes I agree with this cracking post by KatieR....there are never more than 50 persons dancing at Kent House ! So where are the passionate comments about dancing elsewhere other than this venue.
There has to be more than 50 people dancing in London.

Jango is not a SUPER CLUB. I do not think they exist anywhere.

Any venue is only the sum of (all the dancers) + (a teacher or 2) + (music).

If the total adds up to a dancefest with passion and joy for most who participate then so be it, for as long as it lasts.(nothing lasts forever check out Hipsters these days)

Long live diversity in all that we do!!:yeah:

If everybody was the same we'd be boring.:whistle:

[LMC]

Because KH is a small venue, and there are a large number of people there who know each other well, this *can* appear intimidating to new dancers even if that is not the intention . The standard of dancing at KH is generally high - I myself was told that I "wasn't ready" for Jango, which I was quite happy to accept - I like to watch anyway. As I said, I've had a great time at Kent House the couple of times I've been there - but I strongly suspect that this is *because* I know people from the forum. As the standard of dancing is high, I don't like to ask people there - because I feel there are better dancers than me that they would prefer to be dancing with - they can dance with someone like me at Ashtons/any other venue. So I wait to be asked - and if it wasn't for knowing some people there, I strongly suspect I wouldn't be.

UP and Katie are right to a certain extent, any time you go to an 'new' venue, there will be a settling in period. But some venues are more welcoming than others - IMO/experience, Kent House is not as friendly as Milton Keynes - where I was asked as much as doing the asking - but not as 'difficult' as the Jive Bar, where I had a great time but had to ask for every dance myself.

Bear in mind that Dizzy and Paul F already know many of the people who go to Kent House. So of course they would have settled in quickly.

I'm still, to a certain extent, an outsider at Jango - of course! - I'm an inexperienced dancer and have only been to two T-jives. That's fine, I don't have a problem with that, it takes time to 'settle in'. But I'm a bit uncomfortable with the "can do no wrong" attitude prevailing amongst some Jango converts.

I feel misunderstood by FP's and Katie R's comments. I said I've had a good time both times I've been to the Sunday T-jive. Just because I don't think that Jango is the best thing since sliced bread doesn't mean that I'm dissing it. But converts - please understand that your view from the inside is far different from ours on the outside. The balance is, of course, almost certainly somewhere between DJ's jaundiced view and other people's passionate 'can do no wrong' view.

[David Bailey]

Being 'hard core' Jango as a certain person who shall remain nameless (...DJ :whistle: )
Err... nope. Think that must have been some other BMiB...


and its probably the reason why people like yourselves may possibly be shunned at such venues because you do bag it so much so that the people that love it dont want to talk to you.
It's true, I am A Man Shunned, no-one ever talks to me :tears: :tears:

(I assume "bagging" is the same as "putting it down"? I don't know, you young people and your strange expressions)


Its not people that we are not accepting of its attitudes. I think you would find that if you went there with a positive attitude not a they are trying to convert me attitude then you would be more than welcome.
Errr, I'm not scared of going there (well, now I am :) ), I just don't really want to. And, ahem, I didn't start the thread...


and I repeat again, we are not trying to convert those that don't enjoy it,
And I have to say, that's really not the way it feels, it very much feels like a conversion drive from where I'm sitting.

And yes, OK, I do get a kick out of provoking these predictable OTT rebuttals, I'm just evil that way, it's like poking an anthill - for example:

Come on??? all of you that cant stand all us Jangoista elitists, bring it on? where do you like to go and why????
Good thing you didn't get to five question marks, I'd have worried about your sanity there for a while...

But to answer your, err, question, I like to try Argentinian Tango (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6361), apparently it's like Jango but, you know, proper :whistle:

Hello there Mr sparkly blue touchpaper, how are you?

[David Bailey]

The balance is, of course, almost certainly somewhere between DJ's jaundiced view and other people's passionate 'can do no wrong' view.
Oi!

What you clearly meant to say was:

The balance is, of course, almost certainly exactly what DJ's expert and unbiased opinion says

That's OK, no need to thank me.

[LMC]

What you fail to realise, Mr James, is that I have a higher perspective from all the way up here on the fence. So I'm right. :na:

Of course, being all the way up here leaves me all exposed (in a manner of speaking, not literally) - making it easier for everyone to shoot me down...

I stand corrected by Will - Amir is in charge of Sunday T-jive, Monday Jango is managed by Will, Kate, Toby and Divissima. So the monthly T-jives and weekly Mondays are different. As they are attended largely by the same forum crowd I think my confusion is understandable - but apologies for getting confused anyway.

[KatieR]

Hello..?? does anyone actually read what they are posting before they post??

Here LMC contradicts herself...

Firstly you complain because it is cliquey and no one asks you to dance ... and the only reason people ask you to dance is because they know you...


To be brutally honest? - I've never been to Jango on a Monday. But I've been to a couple of the tea dances and I love watching people there, the dancing is aspirational. And I always have a good time. But I feel that I only get dances there because people know me - it certainly ain't because I'm a good dancer. It may not feel like a clique when you're in it. But it can look like a clique to outsiders. And I believe that if I wasn't on the forum, I would be just as discouraged as the guy I've mentioned.

yet then you say.. well I know that there are reasons for it, its not just Jango... so I guess its okay... why complain, get everyone riled up then say... well I know thats because of 'dot dot dot' so its actually ok. Its not the peoples fault... it happens at any venue... you've just lost your own argument!


I'm still, to a certain extent, an outsider at Jango - of course! - I'm an inexperienced dancer and have only been to two T-jives. That's fine, I don't have a problem with that, it takes time to 'settle in'. But I'm a bit uncomfortable with the "can do no wrong" attitude prevailing amongst some Jango converts.

I feel misunderstood by FP's and Katie R's comments. I said I've had a good time both times I've been to the Sunday T-jive. Just because I don't think that Jango is the best thing since sliced bread doesn't mean that I'm dissing it. But converts - please understand that your view from the inside is far different from ours on the outside. The balance is, of course, almost certainly somewhere between DJ's jaundiced view and other people's passionate 'can do no wrong' view.

Youve had a good time... why whinge?

no one has said Jango is the best thing since sliced bread... we all just love it and are passionate about it... as Gus has said.. its just different, NOT an Uberclub.

someone told you you weren't good enough? Been hit on the head by any low ceilings lately??

converts??? we do not convert people, I cringe at the term... we do not stand outside accosting people in the street, what does natural human behaviour make us do when we love something.... we talk about it.. to anyone and anything!

the 'do no wrong' attitude is because, now listen carefully FOR ... THOSE... OF ... US... let me repeat... FOR THOSE OF US who love it, No one else... we arent holding guns to anyones head or knives to anyones throats.. there is nothing wrong with it. that is OUR OPINION.

I look at the people who seem to be against Jango... David James... never been, and probably wouldn't enjoy because of his already closed off attitude, the only reason I have said to come is so you can actually make an educated assessment.

LMC has been told she isn't good enough, would go in already feeling hugely intimidated because she has had her confidence knocked a bit. My argument to that is sure, someone told you that you weren't good enough.. did you try it to find out if you were?? You might be surprised!


Bear in mind that Dizzy and Paul F already know many of the people who go to Kent House. So of course they would have settled in quickly.

Not sure I agree with that either... Dizzy knew I think 2 people.. she knows as many forumites as you do, maybe not even as many as you, so I dont buy that argument, Paul F ... same.... didn't really know too many people in person. But because of their non judgmental attitude they have not found it as difficult to settle in.

[KatieR]

Err... nope. Think that must have been some other BMiB...


It's true, I am A Man Shunned, no-one ever talks to me :tears: :tears:

(I assume "bagging" is the same as "putting it down"? I don't know, you young people and your strange expressions)


Errr, I'm not scared of going there (well, now I am :) ), I just don't really want to. And, ahem, I didn't start the thread...


And I have to say, that's really not the way it feels, it very much feels like a conversion drive from where I'm sitting.

And yes, OK, I do get a kick out of provoking these predictable OTT rebuttals, I'm just evil that way, it's like poking an anthill - for example:

Good thing you didn't get to five question marks, I'd have worried about your sanity there for a while...

But to answer your, err, question, I like to try Argentinian Tango (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6361), apparently it's like Jango but, you know, proper :whistle:

Hello there Mr sparkly blue touchpaper, how are you?

Not even going to justify it with a response.....

[LMC]

KatieR, my intention is not to be contradictory, the intention was to point out that Kent House is, as you yourself said, no different from any other venue from this point of view.

Therefore, it is not perfect. It's special to you - but that doesn't mean it's perfect across the board. Accept it.

What you are calling complaints are also not intended to come across as complaints but personal observations.

That's the end of argument from me - I don't want to continue a conversation with someone who is sounding hysterical and angry, because I don't want to get that way myself. If you want to get riled by what I am saying, that is your problem, not mine.

[KatieR]

Therefore, it is not perfect. It's special to you - but that doesn't mean it's perfect across the board. Accept it.
.

Have you read any of what I have written.... ? The main focus of my posts have been that it ISNT perfect for everyone. I have NEVER said that i think it is perfect for everyone. those of us that love it, love it, we never try and force any one else to.... Please go back and read what I have written as it explains quite clearly that I refer to myself and other people that are Jango regulars only when I speak about there being nothing wrong with it. I do accept it, it is everyone else that continues to put it down that is causing the problems. I am just defending something I love.

[Tessalicious]

Hold on ... thats exactly NOT what the thread is about. It is now :rolleyes:
For a start there is VERY little connection between the Monday night vibe and the T-Jive Sundays!Well I'm sorry, but like certain others I have other venues I go to regularly on a Monday for various reasons. Also to be honest I prefer classes where I can dance as a lead, and I wouldn't dare do this at Jango. Don't ask me why, I just wouldn't. So the Sunday T-Jive, which is mostly the same people plus a few extras, is all I have to go on - I apologise if that causes me to express a slightly skewed view.

Like ANY other club, if you just stay on the sidelines, wel then you cant always expect people to always ask youWho said I stayed on the sidelines? I danced every other song with the partner I took with, and in between I wandered in the hopes of being asked. But as LMC quite rightly said, in the company of such phenomenal dancers as those that are T-Jive regulars, a not-very-confident just-another-girl-thats-been-dancing-for six-months doesn't have a lot of courage to ask people to dance, especially without forum-provided info that says you are all really nice.
Im not going to apologise for loving something and feeling passionate about something and getting offended if people that HAVE NEVER BEEN want to bag itAbsolutely, never apologise for loving something - any more than I apologise to that friend that came with me the first time who was really surprised when I told him that I go back often on Sundays and have lots of friends there now.

But DJ in particular isn't saying that there is anything intrinsically wrong with Jango, just that
he prefers to do his MJ and his Argentine Tango separately,
- and therefore that
there is not enough added appeal of Jango to drag him all the way there from Norf Lunnon as opposed to going to his local,
- and most importantly
that neither of those things make him a bad person, just because he is a London forumite that doesn't go to Jango (the same could be said for others, but DJ is the most obvious example).


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that any of this is a problem - but Gus, you can't post a (sort-of) question about Superclubs and mention Jango and expect everyone to continue to jump to its defense. There are aspects of it that make it less than perfect for the first timer and therefore a superclub that they feel they can only aspire to membership of, but then it's got plenty of qualities that make it fabulous for those that can enjoy it to the full. But it is what it is, and by all accounts has been and continues to be very successful - so why does it really matter whether non-Jangoistes are desperate to come along or not?

[LMC]

KatieR, I'm sure we both read each other's posts. However, I feel you didn't read my posts either - so that makes us quits.

Unfortunately, despite a couple of very nice PMs from Will, I don't want to come to the T-jive on Sunday any more, as I intended. Emotions are just running too high for cynical, buttoned up little old me.

Have fun.

[KatieR]

Woo hoo! Just got my first Neg Rep! for defending something I love... please, if you cant handle people defending something they love when you threaten it, dont post anything at all.

[under par]

- I like to watch anyway. As I said, I've had a great time at Kent House the couple of times I've been there - but I strongly suspect that this is *because* I know people from the forum. As the standard of dancing is high, I don't like to ask people there - because I feel there are better dancers than me that they would prefer to be dancing with - they can dance with someone like me at Ashtons/any other venue. So I wait to be asked - and if it wasn't for knowing some people there, I strongly suspect I wouldn't be.


It sounds like you are putting Ashtons down there which I'm sure you didn't mean.

If you wait to be asked to dance at a small venue when there are less men than women you will sit out a lot.



EQUATION the (wanting to be be asked) is always inversely proportionate to the (amount of asking being done) and the equation has 2 variables 1.are you (actually up dancing )or 2. are you (stood/sat out). a third variable has come to mind the 3. (the sum of leaders) divided by (the sum of followers) multiplied by (the proportion of forumites attending)

If you want to dance ASK SOMEONE.

DO NOT be critical of those that are dancing for dancing, just because you may be feeling inadequate and are sat at the side watching.

YOU have paid your money get up and dance there's no refund for sitting out.

The more you ask the more you will dance.The more people you get to know!

You may be turned down but this has been discussed elsewhere. Deal with it.

Stop putting yourself down with "Oooh he/she is better dancer they won't want to dance with me" syndrome because that will be a selfulfilling prophesy.




I'm still, to a certain extent, an outsider at Jango - of course! - I'm an inexperienced dancer and have only been to two T-jives. That's fine, I don't have a problem with that, it takes time to 'settle in'. But I'm a bit uncomfortable with the "can do no wrong" attitude prevailing amongst some Jango converts.

.

There is no insiders and outsiders there are dancers. DANCING

there are dancers who know each other and dancers who don't DANCING

Nearly every post you tell us you are inexperienced dancer, come on! Do some more dancing less sitting out and you can drop that tag in no time.

Believing you are inexperienced may well be holding you back and again be a self fulfilling prophesy. Dance cos you enjoy it and cos you want to dance.

I enjoy dancing with you, you are a good receptive follower....enjoy your dancing please.:hug:

[ChrisA]

This thread is very reminiscent of the way the Hipsters thread started.

Hipsters used to offer something different, and those that liked it, raved about it, much to some people's annoyance.

Ditto Jango.

Hipsters attracted people who were more interested in the hard-core dance thing, than the chummy social thing. Although for those like-minded people that were attracted to that type of venue, the chummy social thing took off too.

Ditto Jango.

Hipsters (as it was originally) was pilloried by people that hadn't been there, or felt intimidated by what they saw there, or felt excluded when they turned up because of the established culture. Yet those that wanted to dance rather than bounce, and got stuck in, soon found acceptance.

Ditto Jango.

Move along here, folks, there's nothing to see.

[Zebra Woman]

Sorry I love Jango and the T dances and I'd be lost without them. I am not apologising for raving about them either. Hug for KatieR :hug:.

Apart from Blues rooms on weekenders Kent House is the only place as a dancer I ever feel truly at home. I wouldn't dream of converting anyone to coming along unless they were into wierd music and/or unhappy with Ceroc music (as Paul F seemed to be). I know I like dancing to 'obscure crap' (quote Stewart38) and I can rely on TWK, Marc and Amir to play it .But it is definitely not for everyone! Besides there isn't room for everyone, the venue is very small.

For me Jango has several key ingredients

1. Interesting slower music, it makes me want to play.
2. Like minded dancers who like the music and want to play
3. Reasonable floorcraft/consideration so that playing doesn't feel dangerous.
4. Off the walll crazy humour....
5. An 'It's OK if we fluff it up' atmosphere, which leads to more experimentation.



If I am planning to bring a newbie along to Jango, I will take them to Hipsters/Ashtons first, IMO Jango can be intimidating the first time even for experienced dancers.

If I was bringing David James along for the first time, I expect I'd handcuff him and stuff him in the boot of my car. ...and leave him in there while I enjoyed the Jango experience :devil:.

The first time I went to Jango I had been dancing over 6 years so was expecting to feel OK, but when I got there 50% of the people in the room were competition winners or Jive Master finalists :eek:. Really scary!!! And even worse, they all seemed to know each other really well too. I did have a great time, but it did take a few months to stop the 'Why on earth would so and so want to dance with me if so and so is in the room??' feelings.
Now I know everyone I wonder whatever made me think like that, they are all lovely. :flower: Sorry I'm not helping much here. :blush:


FWIW I am tired of Jango being the only non ceroc thing being raved about...I would like to hear about other things too.


From my experience of DD's sets at SP I would say....If I lived in Scotland and went to Route 66...... I don't know for sure, but I suspect regular servings of interesting music from DD which is appreciated by keen dancers could make me feel the same passion.

Who knows? What is the Route 66 experience like? I'd like to hear about that...

ZW:flower:

[LMC]

Woo hoo! Just got my first Neg Rep! for defending something I love... please, if you cant handle people defending something they love when you threaten it, dont post anything at all.
Since you've put this out in the open, so will I. I did not neg rep you for defending something you love - and I'm hardly any threat to it. My comment was "excessively confrontational".


IMO Jango can be intimidating the first time even for experienced dancers.
Thank you.

[Blues Dancer]

It's a shame that there's been so much negativity here.

The way I read the posts so far, is that people have different perspectives on the night in question.

Some people really love going there, which is great for them. It works for them.

Some people have been and haven't enjoyed it, are put off by what they've heard & read about it (yes, I am in this category), or are just bloody minded about the whole ideal (yes, DavidJames is in this category! :insertsmileyfacehere: )

That doesn't mean that everyone isn't entitled to state their perspective. And someone saying negative things about Jango isn't necessarily attacking the venue, and such comments really don't need to be 'defended'. But, as DJ prophesied, they were. Quite vehemently at times. Which is possibly a shame, since I don't think that it does help at all really.

I think that I've kind of lost the plot here, so I'll finish by saying that I'm still glad that people enjoy the Jango experience. I don't think that it's for me, so I won't be going. But lets not end up with this thread upstairs or outside, or wherever bad threads go. And definitely not a Jango/non-Jango split on the forum.

[KatieR]

Since you've put this out in the open, so will I. I did not neg rep you for defending something you love - and I'm hardly any threat to it. My comment was "excessively confrontational".


Thank you.

But i didn't say WHO neg repped me.... it could have been anyone! You named yourself. The thing is tho, IMHO, if you do feel strongly enough to neg rep someone, you need to be strong enough to deal with the fallout.

[senorita]

[QUOTE=Zebra Woman]If I was bringing David James along for the first time, I expect I'd handcuff him and stuff him in the boot of my car. ...and leave him in there while I enjoyed the Jango experience :devil:.



Ahhh poor DJ ..:flower:

Mmmm naughty ZW and her handcuffs...He would fit very nicely in there though :rofl: :rofl:

PS nice profile picture by the way :hug:

[David Bailey]

I look at the people who seem to be against Jango... David James...
Sorry, but where on Earth do you think I'm "against Jango"?

To make it absolutely and completely clear: I'm for Jango, and similar events.

I think they're great, and I wish we had more of this diversity in the London area. If Jango brings the bar up for other venues, fantastic. What more do I need to say? :confused:

However, I'm against the excessive and OTT ranting of some attendees, who frankly are not helping the cause of Jango and related events by this "jumping down people's throat" evangelical attitude.

Labelling people who didn't like a place "judgemental" and people who did like a place "fun" is frankly demeaning. All this ranting is doing, is alienating people more, and reinforcing people's prejudices, isn't that plain?

How many more people do you want to scare off going?

OK, that's enough seriousness...

{ snip personal abuse, I can take it like a man }

As they are attended largely by the same forum crowd I think my confusion is understandable
Well, yeah - plus, they're at the same place, and advertised on the same website (http://www.fusiondance.freeservers.com/index.html) - hell, on the same page of the same site - and marketed identically . Closer related than most Ceroc venues, in other words.

So with that level of cross-marketing it's forgivable, especially considering you're so high up, all that oxygen deprivation must be interfering with the blood supply to your brain...


Sorry I love Jango and the T dances and I'd be lost without them. I am not apologising
Oh yes you are... :rofl:


If I was bringing David James along for the first time, I expect I'd handcuff him and stuff him in the boot of my car.
Fantastic - I normally have to pay good money for that sort of treatment.

[KatieR]

Sorry, but where on Earth do you think I'm "against Jango"?

To make it absolutely and completely clear: I'm for Jango, and similar events.
.

Then why stir trouble? We have a Monday Jango thread where we all talk about Jango. It isn't really mentioned anywhere else except in passing comment.

Surely we can all co exist.

[David Bailey]

Then why stir trouble? We have a Monday Jango thread where we all talk about Jango. It isn't really mentioned anywhere else except in passing comment.
Sigh.

Look at the thread creator (not me), look at the first post (mentioning Jango), look at who it refers to (me). Based on that, what makes you think I'm stirring?

Or am I not allowed to reply to something that mentions my views, to clarify those views?


Surely we can all co exist.
Don't get all hippy and lovey-dovey on me now, girl - I might have to go and do some work or something :eek:

[bigdjiver]

Reading this thread is a bit like me watching a championship table tennis match, my eyes just can't keep up. Have I got the score right? Jango has super dancing, super dancers and super music, it is just not a super club?

[David Bailey]

Reading this thread is a bit like me watching a championship table tennis match, my eyes just can't keep up. Have I got the score right? Jango has super dancing, super dancers and super music, it is just not a super club?
Correct. But, obviously, it'd be a super club if I went there.

(Can you imagine what the forum would be like if I too were vehemently "defending" the place? Doesn't bear thinking about, does it? :innocent: )

[Gus]

BU**ER:tears: Started this whole thread off to disassemble the 'myth' of Superclubs .... and ended up reinforcing this false prophecy.:(

Don’t you think that there are a number of Uberclubs, Fulham being a case in point. Its probably regarded as the Jewel in Ceroc's crown ... where all the real good dancers go etc. etc. There are disciples for the venue .... BUT I don’t go because I think its too packed ... so despite it being a club with a heck of a lot going forward, its not my cup of tea. Personal decision, but I can understand the evangelists.

Take Route 66. An excellent differentiation form the standard Ceroc product. Again, real evangelists ... and rightly so because DD has created a great offering:worthy: :worthy: However, much as I admire it the music would drive me up the wall ... because its not my style ... BUT I think there should be MORE Route 66's.

As the word of Ceroc spreads, there becomes a GREATER need for differentiated, smaller concepts that can meet the variety of needs of dancers who want something a little different ... not necessarily better, but more in line with their key taste. I will always regret having to close Cool Catz. I firmly believe that clubs like that are PART of the future. I hope that things will change where these concepts are seen less as elitist or competition to Ceroc(tm) but are recognised as a symbiotic product that can help everyone.

Here endeth the Sermon

[KatieR]

Sigh.

Look at the thread creator (not me), look at the first post (mentioning Jango), look at who it refers to (me). Based on that, what makes you think I'm stirring?

Or am I not allowed to reply to something that mentions my views, to clarify those views?


Don't get all hippy and lovey-dovey on me now, girl - I might have to go and do some work or something :eek:

yes, the thread was started by another, but it was yours and other responses to that which I was most affected by.

[Paul F]

This is why I love the forum :hug:

Its kept me enthralled for a few hours :grin:

[David Bailey]

yes, the thread was started by another, but it was yours and other responses to that which I was most affected by.
Hey, that's what I'm here for. Feel free to rep me (+ve!!) for being so wonderful.

But that's an interesting definition; "Stirring = Writing stuff that affects KatieR". There I was thinking it meant things like "initiating provocative threads", silly me :whistle:


BU**ER:tears: Started this whole thread off to disassemble the 'myth' of Superclubs .... and ended up reinforcing this false prophecy.:(

Law of unintended consequences, mate.


Don’t you think that there are a number of Uberclubs, Fulham being a case in point. Its probably regarded as the Jewel in Ceroc's crown ... where all the real good dancers go etc. etc. There are disciples for the venue .... BUT I don’t go because I think its too packed ... so despite it being a club with a heck of a lot going forward, its not my cup of tea. Personal decision, but I can understand the evangelists.
Really? I dunno, I've never heard much about Fulham (although that's probably because I'm the Shunned Man), apart from "it's packed". But let's face it, "It's packed" is probably the defining characteristic of a successful club by Ceroc.

I think it'd be interesting to provide people's comparative ratings of venues, at least in the London area - and hopefully we're getting there with the "reviews" thread, although I'd like to see more activity there.


I will always regret having to close Cool Catz. I firmly believe that clubs like that are PART of the future. I hope that things will change where these concepts are seen less as elitist or competition to Ceroc(tm) but are recognised as a symbiotic product that can help everyone.

Here endeth the Sermon
Amen.

[Swinging bee]

One mans meat............

[KatieR]

But that's an interesting definition; "Stirring = Writing stuff that affects KatieR". There I was thinking it meant things like "initiating provocative threads", silly me

It doesn't just affect me, I know others are affected to, but I think a lot of people are way to nice to make comment.


BU**ER Started this whole thread off to disassemble the 'myth' of Superclubs .... and ended up reinforcing this false prophecy.

sorry Gus, for making a mess of your well intended thread.

[MartinHarper]

By "superclub", I kinda think of a venue that's really big, rather than one of ~50 people. I guess that's not how folks here use the term.


I am not anti Ceroc and feel that any venue will seem intimidating to newcomers...

Sure.
Some venues are more welcoming than others, whilst others are more intimidating. There's lots of things that make that up, as you say: a venue is "the sum of (all the dancers) + (a teacher or 2) + (music)".


You bag it so much so that the people that love it dont want to talk to you.

If you went there with a positive attitude not a "they are trying to convert me" attitude then you would be more than welcome.

If you sit in a corner with a scowl on your face, your arms crossed with a look of thunder and a preconceived idea as to what to expect... no one is going to ask you to dance.

Ok, so if (hypothetically) I go to Jangos, and I feel unwelcome, then as far as you're concerned, that's my problem?


people defending something they love when you threaten it...

A threat would be something like: "Katie and Little Miss Carpy have 24 hours to kiss and make up, or I shall destroy you all!". Whilst DavidJames and LMC make a scary double-act, they're not threatening Jangos with anything more dire than their own absence.

[Groovy Dancer]

The Big Forum Gathering 2006-
And the nominations, for the MOST PASSIONATE VIEWS for a single thread are............................................... .:whistle:


Never a dull moment:flower:

[David Bailey]

A threat would be something like: "Katie and Little Miss Carpy have 24 hours to kiss and make up, or I shall destroy you all!".
Hmmm, do you think that'd work? Could be worth a try... :whistle:


Whilst DavidJames and LMC make a scary double-act, they're not threatening Jangos with anything more dire than their own absence.
Some would say that's more of a bonus than a threat (hey, if I didn't say it, someone else would have).

[ChrisA]

5. An 'It's OK if we fluff it up' atmosphere, which leads to more experimentation.

Yep. Fluffers welcome...

[KatieR]

Ok, so if (hypothetically) I go to Jangos, and I feel unwelcome, then as far as you're concerned, that's my problem?.

No, I wouldn't say that, but just dont sit in the corner and sulk.



A threat would be something like: "Katie and Little Miss Carpy have 24 hours to kiss and make up, or I shall destroy you all!". Whilst DavidJames and LMC make a scary double-act, they're not threatening Jangos with anything more dire than their own absence.

*slaps self on the wrist for enciting riots.... extends hand to LMC.....*

[LMC]

Some would say that's more of a bonus than a threat (hey, if I didn't say it, someone else would have).
Damn you, DJ...


As the word of Ceroc spreads, there becomes a GREATER need for differentiated, smaller concepts that can meet the variety of needs of dancers who want something a little different ... not necessarily better, but more in line with their key taste. I will always regret having to close Cool Catz. I firmly believe that clubs like that are PART of the future. I hope that things will change where these concepts are seen less as elitist or competition to Ceroc(tm) but are recognised as a symbiotic product that can help everyone.
:yeah:

And if such clubs are to grow and evolve, then whilst having fun, regular members need to be conscious of 'newbies' (new attendees, who are not necessarily beginner dancers) - encouragement of inclusivity is one thing that the Ceroc model does do fairly well.

EDIT (cross-post): :hug: KatieR - I actually really like that we can argue (as we have done before...) and make up :)

[Gus]

HEY!!! If you want to debate whether or not you would like to go to Jango(tm) ...FIND ANOTHER THREAD!!:angry: :angry: :wink:

Does the house believe that ALL clubs can justifiably claim to be 'Super' based on the abject loyalty of their members? Isnt it the passion that dnacers have for the club that makes it so special. that the piont I (think) I was trying to make.

[David Bailey]

Does the house believe that ALL clubs can justifiably claim to be 'Super' based on the abject loyalty of their members? Isnt it the passion that dnacers have for the club that makes it so special. that the piont I (think) I was trying to make.
You know what, I had to go back to the start of the thread to remind myself what all the debate was about :blush: :rofl:

OK, then, my answer is No. I don't think super clubs exist.

I think some venues, on some nights, can be fantastic and exquisite experiences - when the DJ, the dancers, the atmosphere, all come together to make it an unforgettable night

I also think that whilst some venues have those experiences more than others , you can never tell where and when those experiences will be - they're deeply personal and unpredictable. And that's what makes MJ fresh and exciting.

[Will]

Been deliberating for a couple of hours as to whether to get involved in this. Well here it goes....

I think (as ChrisA) has pointed out, that there is quite alot of similarity here between the current hype about Jango, and the hype that Hipsters used to get. I was a regular at Hipsters too, but I also found the hype about Hipsters over the top and anoying at times, so I can understand why some people would feel the same way about Jango now. (Otherwise I'm a bit of a hyprocrite really).

I think that Jango gets alot of traffic for a combination of reasons. Firstly (dare I say it) we do offer a good product, and something different to most other nights. Secondly, our clientelle is made up of a higher percentage of forumites than probably any other venue in the country.

If you were to judge a venue based on the number of posts on the forum that say "Venue xxx is fab" then it would be totally unfair on pretty much every venue other than Jango right now (And I know how annoying that can be). However, I think it's ok for people who go to a club and love it to say that. (And Toby, Divissima, Kate, & myself all really appreciate the support we get both on and off this forum).

The thing is that in some ways we are better than any of the other venues in the area, and in other ways we are worse that them! Jango is still relatively small compared to the Ceroc clubs. Our size allows us to offer a more personalised and intimate service. We also have a comparatively small disparity of dance standards compared to the average Ceroc clubs, which makes it easier for us again to taylor what we do to our peoples needs.

On the other hand, unlike Ceroc, we can't cater for wide ranges of abilities (from Beginner upwards - which is why we often try to point newer dancers in the direction of their closest Ceroc venue whilst hoping they will still come to Jango on Mondays.). We can't offer that Big Event Buzz at Kent House like you get at places like Hammersmith or Fulham. We can't offer the post dancing social life that you get at Fulham with all the pubs and bars staying open until 1am. We can't stop our DJ from looking like an entry into the Turner prize and singing like a strangled cat at the end of the evening. (Nor can we stop the female teacher from talking for that matter)

Personally I love Jango, but I also love going to Fulham, Hammersmith, Twyford, Greenwich, Surbiton, etc... for all the above reasons.

Surely, "Variety is the spice of Jive" :sick:

[Robin]

On the other hand, unlike Ceroc, we can't cater for wide ranges of abilities (from Beginner upwards - which is why we often try to point newer dancers in the direction of their closest Ceroc venue whilst hoping they will still come to Jango on Mondays.).

Really ??? Can't say I remember the last time we had a "referral" :D



Personally I love Jango, but I also love going to Fulham, Hammersmith, Twyford, Greenwich, Surbiton, etc... for all the above reasons.


What about Finchley then ?? eh ? eh?

Ooohhh - just a thought but doesn't Finchley/Whetstone have all the ingredients for SuperClub status ???

[El Salsero Gringo]

Just my luck - my internet connection goes down for 12 hours, and I miss the biggest bitchfest on the Forum this month.

Personal hilights so far are KatieR telling DavidJames he's a social leper and hasn't noticed yet and Tessalicious that she must be lying about how she felt on her first visit to Jango.

OK DavidJ, here's a balanced comment on Jango for you. I've been to Jango a few times (including years ago, before the Forum existed, when there were roughly twelve people there all night.) It was fun. But not so much fun that I can't live without it.

I now wait to feel sharp teeth biting my ankle.

[LMC]

Ah, we wondered where you'd got to...

I personally am still touched and over-whelmed by being called scary. By Martin Harper, no less. I feel like I've "made it".

although I should have voted for myself, not you, for Forum Star

I thought DavidJames was a social leper? :confused:

[Feelingpink]

...OK DavidJ, here's a balanced comment on Jango for you. I've been to Jango a few times (including years ago, before the Forum existed, when there were roughly twelve people there all night.) It was fun. But not so much fun that I can't live without it.

I now wait to feel sharp teeth biting my ankle.Nah! We're involved in a hugfest ... feel free to join in :hug:

[Will]

What about Finchley then ?? eh ? eh?

Ooohhh - just a thought but doesn't Finchley/Whetstone have all the ingredients for SuperClub status ???I would have included Finchley/Whetstone, but David James told me that it was crap. :whistle:

[under par]

What about Finchley then ?? eh ? eh?

Ooohhh - just a thought but doesn't Finchley/Whetstone have all the ingredients for SuperClub status ???

Robin you may well have a point there!

Please submit your SuperClub application to the forum via this thread outlining all the evidence for each SuperClub category.

Evidence lacking passion will not be accepted.:whistle:

All evidence must have relevant backing papers and signed affidavits from non commercial operators.

[KatieR]

Am I allowed back in yet?? I promise to be nice and talk about fluffy bunnies a lot... :whistle:

[LMC]

That would be *fuzzy* bunnies (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5953) KatieR

officially anyway, fluffy bunnies sounds better

I've defected from Chesham to Finchley recently and will provide said affidavit for Finchley with lots of :hug: :clap: :worthy: and the use of the word "lovely" in exchange for rep. [ /DavidJames mode ]

[Zebra Woman]

You know what, I had to go back to the start of the thread to remind myself what all the debate was about :blush: :rofl:

OK, then, my answer is No. I don't think super clubs exist.

I think some venues, on some nights, can be fantastic and exquisite experiences - when the DJ, the dancers, the atmosphere, all come together to make it an unforgettable night

I also think that whilst some venues have those experiences more than others , you can never tell where and when those experiences will be - they're deeply personal and unpredictable. And that's what makes MJ fresh and exciting.
:yeah:

I think some clubs feel 'Super' when they are in their prime and every visit is guaranteed to be a big hit...as Hipsters was last year and The Jango/Tdance are now (for some people not all :whistle: ).And some Ceroc nights can be 'Super' too, with the help of a discerning DJ. (DJ meaning Disc Jockey not you DJ :rolleyes: ).

That Buzz cannot be guaranteed every night or quantified or compared from region to region. And why bother anyway? Does it really matter?

When people find themselves on the fringe finding satisfying places to dance gets harder and harder.

I have found this forum most useful for extending my knowledge of DJs and venues. Eg. A year ago I read a post from a forumite who enjoyed the same night at Chesham that I did, and they posted something raving about Twyford - it made me think I would like Twyford too. And I did. I also started Hipsters Wednesdays based on Forum advice too. So people raving about Jango on here willl hopefully encourage the odd person to come along now and then and they should be too surprised by what they find when they get there.:eek::devil::drool::cheers::worthy::hug::kis s::clap::waycool:. It may also put off others - saving them a wasted journey perhaps....


IMO It would be healthier for all if other 'alternative' events like Route66, Bo-Jangles, the Ampthill Blues Nights, CoolCatz (in its day) got more of an airing on here. As Will observes, the densest concentration of Forumites is at Jango so the posts on here will reflect that.

I wouldn't call any of them Super clubs, that is setting up for a fall, 'Alternative' would be a better phrase in my opinion.

What scares me is how passionately attached to our alternatives some of us are. And how few there are:sick:. What would happen if we lost them?


Talking of alternatives, DavidJames - if you ever feel a dance night is just not working for you and you would be happier tied up in the boot of my car - just say the word. I always have at least 30' of rope and I know how to use it.

[David Bailey]

Just my luck - my internet connection goes down for 12 hours, and I miss the biggest bitchfest on the Forum this month.
Hey, I told you all about it last night, if you decide to sleep instead of use the forum, that's your own silly fault and I have no sympathy.


I thought DavidJames was a social leper? :confused:
I think I am now... :tears:


I would have included Finchley/Whetstone, but David James told me that it was crap. :whistle:
Hey, that was said in confidence, you know. Now everyone knows I'm secretly in the Pay Of Jango, damnit.


I've defected from Chesham to Finchley recently and will provide said affidavit for Finchley with lots of :hug: :clap: :worthy: and the use of the word "lovely" in exchange for rep. [ /DavidJames mode ]
Nah, it's crap :rofl:
COME TO JANGO, COME TO JANGO !!

(hell, I'm outed now, why be subtle?)


Talking of alternatives, DavidJames - if you ever feel a dance night is just not working for you and you would be happier tied up in the boot of my car - just say the word. I always have at least 30' of rope and I know how to use it.
Now that I can believe.

[Obi's Sweat Band]

In the end, there can be only 1. Rochester!!!:whistle:

Confortably the best night in the land, skinning the competition alive since '99. :cheers:

[under par]

In the end, there can be only 1. Rochester!!!:whistle:

Confortably the best night in the land, skinning the competition alive since '99. :cheers:

Obi you can't have it without a bit more passion and a completed application form. please:flower:

[Obi's Sweat Band]

Obi you can't have it without a bit more passion and a completed application form. please:flower:


I am merely the big man's sweat band and alas not the cuddly love machine himself.

What can't:na: I have?

[under par]

I am merely the big man's sweat band and alas not the cuddly love machine himself.

What can't:na: I have?

SuperClub status for Rochester!!! of course.

[Obi's Sweat Band]

SuperClub status for Rochester!!! of course.

Am I gonna have to get some stats out here? Am I gonna have to take you blow by blow through the ground breaking individuals that grace that fair venue on a week in week out basis? Am I gonna have to discuss music, atmosphere, crew, size, parking, location, reputation and style? Surely I don't need to? Not here in Ceroc's premier chat forum where the great and the good who know their onions reside.

:really:

[ducasi]

That would be *fuzzy* bunnies (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5953) KatieR

officially anyway, fluffy bunnies sounds better
Maybe, but fluffy bunnies are a bit too cute and girly, aren't they?

While fuzzy.... Just the word.... Mmmm.... :devil:

BTW, sort-of back on-topic, all the Ceroc Scotland nights are *super* (though some are more super than others.) I hope to make it to Route 66 soon, though it looks like it'll be December now...

[stewart38]

PS I am not anti Ceroc and feel that any venue will seem intimidating to newcomers...when I first went to Fulham, Surbiton and Ealing I felt intimidated but with a few more visits they all seem the same, just a group of dancers enjoying thier dancing.



:yeah:

I first went to Ealing about 2 years ago (I’d been dancing for years) and perceive it to be very cliquey, I even shared about on this forum and got blasted for it from some quarters.

HOWEVER a few visits later (still infrequently) I found out it was fine with some great dancers there , in fact way above average.

The venue didnt change just needed to settle in

If you want real cliquey go to a Bingo hall in the afternoon (try tuesday) and sit in the OAPS regular chair and spread all you pens over 4 tables and see how they 'eye ball you' :blush:

[Minnie M]

...BTW, sort-of back on-topic, all the Ceroc Scotland nights are *super* (though some are more super than others.) I hope to make it to Route 66 soon, though it looks like it'll be December now...
and you won't be disappointed - I had a real fab time there - it was nothing like Hipsters or Jangos but nice people, good floor and FANTASTIC music :worthy: more like the Twyford event/venue but without the amazing cookies :drool: and coffee

[Mary]

Yep. Fluffers welcome...


I was fluffing at the start, y'know in the beginning :blush: :devil: :devil: I hear things for fluffers are on the up. :wink:

I went to Jango at the start, when Amir first got it going (just about one year ago now) and he then handed over the reins to Will, Kate, Div, and Toby. I liked going there, even tho' on some nights there would be just a few of us gazing at each other over a glass of some kind of beverage. On one occasion we ended up doing a half hour aerials practise 'cos no one else was there!!!! But then the numbers gradually started to increase. I am quite shy and take a painfully long time to make friends, so found this small crowd and intimate atmosphere comfortable and felt I could try stuff in my dancing without feeling like a prat!

Now Jango has become a success - well it must be if it has generated this "bitchfest" (great word that). It has become a bit too busy and popular now for my liking (although it was about right last night), but that's because I'm shy and don't feel right at big venues.

Will, Kate, TwK and Div seemed to have combined the right ingredients for what seems to work at Kent House in this present dance climate, and the current clientele - which will not be to everone's taste. Ceroc does a very good job at targeting the wider market, so I am all for those taking a risk and aiming for something a little different.

I would say that for those who like the Jango formula (if one can call it that) and those who would like to give it a taste ............then watch this space.

I am a Jango die-hard, but I get fed up of hearing Jango this and Jango that - someone change the record. However, there's no such thing as bad publicity......................:devil:

M

[Minnie M]

Am I gonna have to get some stats out here? Am I gonna have to take you blow by blow through the ground breaking individuals that grace that fair venue on a week in week out basis? Am I gonna have to discuss music, atmosphere, crew, size, parking, location, reputation and style? Surely I don't need to? Not here in Ceroc's premier chat forum where the great and the good who know their onions reside.

:really:

Try and get a 'non-regular' dancer post on this thread (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6574)

[El Salsero Gringo]

I went to Jango at the start, when Amir first got it going (just about one year ago now)I remember going to Jango once or twice in 2002, I think it was. Amir was teaching there then.

[Minnie M]

I remember going to Jango once or twice in 2002, I think it was. Amir was teaching there then.
Jango 2002 :confused: don't think Amir was in the Country then :rolleyes:

[Robin]

Hey, that was said in confidence, you know. Now everyone knows I'm secretly in the Pay Of Jango, damnit.


Nah, it's crap :rofl:
COME TO JANGO, COME TO JANGO !!

(hell, I'm outed now, why be subtle?)


Now that I can believe.

btw DJ, the boys are on their way round. :innocent:

[El Salsero Gringo]

Jango 2002 :confused: don't think Amir was in the Country then :rolleyes:2003 then? I went with my girlfriend of the time, which dates it somewhat, and I learnt to do a West Manhattan taught by Amir - I still do the move. I've emailed the great man to find out exactly when he started Jango though.

[Minnie M]

I went with my girlfriend of the time, which dates it, and I learnt to do a West Manhattan taught by Amir - I still do the move. I've emailed the great man to find out exactly when he started Jango though.
I could be wrong but I think it was 2003, Amir was emailing me asking advise about the market place when he first 'landed' and then to add to my list, however, Amir will confirm - either way, it was a very long time ago, considering .............

[spindr]

Jango 2002 :confused: don't think Amir was in the Country then :rolleyes:
Are you sure? http://www.tracieslatinclub.co.uk/Summer02.htm

SpinDr

[Mary]

Just checking back in my diary, I did a competition workshop with Greg that Amir held on 2nd Feb 2003, and as I recall, that was also about the time(maybe a bit before) that he had started the T-jives at Kent House. But the Monday night Jango only started about this time last year, and Amir taught the class until Christmas and Will and Kate took over in the New Year (2005).

Amir was, of course, teaching the Manhattan and variations before that at the T-jive and Ealing on a Wednesday.

But hey, who cares - a lot can happen in a year, and 3 minutes is a long time in the dance world, or can be!!!!!!!!!!!!!:wink:

M

[Minnie M]

Are you sure? http://www.tracieslatinclub.co.uk/Summer02.htm

SpinDr

Wow ! :blush: from his emails to me, I thought he had just arrived in the UK - which were in January 2003 sorry folks - not a bad bit of research SpinDr :flower:

[bigdjiver]

From Hotshots thread:


...And she stopped and she told me, "That's all you can do, the basics?" "I told you I don't know how to dance." She told me, "Oh, so when you do learn more, then ask me to dance." And she left me...

That sounds a bit like "Come back when you have learned how to dance" ...


... On the other hand, unlike Ceroc, we can't cater for wide ranges of abilities (from Beginner upwards - which is why we often try to point newer dancers in the direction of their closest Ceroc venue whilst hoping they will still come to Jango on Mondays.). ..

Not a "super" club?

I, too, am in favour of diversity, but I also remember learning ballroom when the "real" dancers all went somewhere else, and it was in decline.

[Mary]

Ooh, I now remember prior to this someone waxing lyrical about this guy called Amir who did a Tango-type class which he taught in Putney and at Kent House. A guy called Ian who used to dance at Uxbridge was telling me about this class at Kent House. I guess that would put it at around mid to end of 2002.

But I remember Amir mentioning about using the name 'Jango' last year for the Monday night venture.

M

[Mary]

From Hotshots thread:



That sounds a bit like "Come back when you have learned how to dance" ...



Not a "super" club?

I, too, am in favour of diversity, but I also remember learning ballroom when the "real" dancers all went somewhere else, and it was in decline.

I see your point, but in my mind I can't see the point of teaching something that a whole countrywide network of Ceroc classes do so well. Ceroc has developed a very successful forumula for getting beginners in and teaching them how to partner dance, so why offer the same? Let Ceroc do what it does best.

Having said that, there is one girl who goes to Jango who was an absolute beginner - never danced before in her life - is now a regular and is rarely sitting out a dance.

M

[mooncalf]

From Hotshots thread:



That sounds a bit like "Come back when you have learned how to dance" ...



Not a "super" club?

I, too, am in favour of diversity, but I also remember learning ballroom when the "real" dancers all went somewhere else, and it was in decline.

Well that let me in, so they can't be that discriminating.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Ooh, I now remember prior to this someone waxing lyrical about this guy called Amir who did a Tango-type class which he taught in Putney and at Kent House. A guy called Ian who used to dance at Uxbridge was telling me about this class at Kent House. I guess that would put it at around mid to end of 2002.

But I remember Amir mentioning about using the name 'Jango' last year for the Monday night venture.

MAccording to the great man himself, he came to the UK in Feb 2001, taught at the Dance Attic first, then started teaching at Kent House on Tuesdays for about the second half of 2002 (which must be what I remember) before moving to Hipsters in February 2003.

Jango, under that name, started at Kent house last December.

[Minnie M]

According to the great man himself, he came to the UK in Feb 2001, taught at the Dance Attic first, then started teaching at Kent House on Tuesdays for about the second half of 2002 (which must be what I remember) before moving to Hipsters in February 2003.

Jango, under that name, started at Kent house last December.

Flippin 'eck - it must have been early 2001 - I definitely remember is was Jan or Feb didn't realise it was sooooo long ago Amir sent those emails ..... certainly didn't seem that long ago - I will wait for him to come on line and sort that one out :blush:

- my apologies to ESG :flower: you were correct in your first post and thank you Mary & SpinDr for your contribution to the confusion I caused :innocent: :blush:

I think senility is setting in :tears:

[Mary]

According to the great man himself, he came to the UK in Feb 2001, taught at the Dance Attic first, then started teaching at Kent House on Tuesdays for about the second half of 2002 (which must be what I remember) before moving to Hipsters in February 2003.

Jango, under that name, started at Kent house last December.

Thanks for clearing that one up.
:flower:

M

[Lory]

My warts'n'all experience of Jango...

It's on a Monday, which is a crap night for me:(

The journey to Hammersmith is sometimes sheer hell, especially the N circular after Hanger Lane

The venue has a small but seemingly adequate car park (at least.. 'I've' always managed to get a parking space in there:clap: )

To reach the actual dance hall, you have to walk through an EXTREMELY smoky workingman's bar.. the locals are usually friendly enough, if somewhat bemused by 'us' ( a few came in to watch the other week:blush: )but the main thing is, the drinks are CHEAP!!!!! :D (the bar staff seem to give priority to the locals first:rolleyes: )

Through the doors and you'll find the ever friendly Divi is there to meet and greet you and relieve you of some of your hard earned cash.;)

The dance hall it's self is small but perfectly formed IMO, it's got a stage, comfy sofa style seating around tables, around the dance floor. The floor is lovely but as I said before... SMALL!

This part of the venue is NO SMOKING!:cheers:

I can't comment too much on the class, as I'm usually gassing... sorry peeps :blush: but it always looks stylish and because the numbers are lowish, there seems to be time for a few personal pointers.. Will and Kate often rotate themselves, if they see people are struggling!

The regular faces... well the majority just happen to be rather good at dancing and share a similar passion for a certain kind of music... IMO there's nothing extraordinary about ANY of them but when they get together, they know how to have fun and be silly, they do karaoke, celebrate birthday's, put on little demo's for each other, take the 'P' out of each other and support each other in comps etc....

This all probably sounds like 'any local' venue in Scotland but it's sadly a very rare commodity in London,:sad: where there's so many venues to choose from, so many nights to dance, so many dancers, that there's unfortunately a distinct lack of community...

The music....Now here's where things start to get different and I'll say it as it is, you'll either love it or you'll hate it... if your looking for pop, easy familiar tunes with a regular beat somewhere around 140bpm, if you can't stand the likes of 'pink martini,' 'Buena Vista Social Club' or generally slower paced music, then its probably not going to be the place for you! (I'm not criticising people for liking 'easy' 'poppy' or 'familiar', its just that you're not going to find it here but then again, you DO have the choice of numerous other venues, who will cater very adequately for your wishes):hug:


I understand that anyone walking into a venue that's not familiar to them, where everyone seems to know each other, that's playing music they may not have heard before, might feel intimidated but if I was to give a personal tip to anyone on 'here', just post a little note, saying when your visiting and you might just be surprised by the 'overwhelming' welcome you'll probably get! :wink:

As for converting people... Yes, I'm getting distinctly worried about this..:sick: I've heard Divi is practising 'Happy clappy' singalong songs and has recruited the likes of Foxylady to play the maracas... I'm just waiting for the inevitable email asking what instrument I can play.. :devil:

[Minnie M]

My warts'n'all experience of Jango...
As a moderator, could you please cut-and-paste this poste on to the 'Feedback' thread, be nice to have all these 'feedbacks' together especially as this is a well written one :clap: :yeah:#

(please forgive my boldness your Majesty)

[bigdjiver]

I often chide myself for not getting around more, for being largely content with my local venues. I tried to think what is "super" about them. They have top class Ceroc teachers and DJ's, amongst the best, but not to a degree to consider them "super".
I took my nephew to Bedford for his first MJ experience. We arrived half way through the beginner class. We separated, him to watch, me to the bar. A lady left the beginner class and took him onto the floor for one-to-one catch up tuition, whilst learning the last two moves. Later that night I saw Frances, a championship winner with the "Shades" double trouble team, invite a newcomer onto the floor. A while ago the teacher did not turn up at St. Neots. Bill? the Taxi dancer, winner of "the "Old Gits" category, took the beginner class whilst Michaela travelled in. He did it superbly. It struck me that here also we have a championship winning pair of dancers that are inviting first timers to dance. That may not meet most forumites definition of a "super" venue, but it does it for me.

[under par]

I often chide myself for not getting around more, for being largely content with my local venues. I tried to think what is "super" about them. They have top class Ceroc teachers and DJ's, amongst the best, but not to a degree to consider them "super".
I took my nephew to Bedford for his first MJ experience. We arrived half way through the beginner class. We separated, him to watch, me to the bar. A lady left the beginner class and took him onto the floor for one-to-one catch up tuition, whilst learning the last two moves. Later that night I saw Frances, a championship winner with the "Shades" double trouble team, invite a newcomer onto the floor. A while ago the teacher did not turn up at St. Neots. Bill? the Taxi dancer, winner of "the "Old Gits" category, took the beginner class whilst Michaela travelled in. He did it superbly. It struck me that here also we have a championship winning pair of dancers that are inviting first timers to dance. That may not meet most forumites definition of a "super" venue, but it does it for me.


Sounds like a Super team you have at that venue..:yeah: :yeah:

[Sheepman]

FWIW I am tired of Jango being the only non ceroc thing being raved about...I would like to hear about other things too. I tend to be discreet about my ravings :what: because I know what I like, other people may not.

But I have repeatedly mentioned JagJive at Gt Bookham on here, hardly anyone seems to have noticed, it's not a forumites venue. There's also a couple of WCS venues that are worth a mention, but for me it is always Jango that is the top night of the week.
One of the main reasons for that (in addition to fab music & great dancers) is that there is usually space, I've said before, I dance better, and connect more with my partner when there is space. So, from a punters point of view, I don't want to be converting more people to Jango, I like it just as it is!

When it comes to converting other people, yes I would like to convert all my favourite dancers to my favourite venues, so I can dance with them, but I know my favourite dancers like some of the venues I like, and not others, life would be too predictable if we all like the same things.

The perfect venue is just as elusive as the perfect partner! I would say that almost any venue takes a couple of visits before you start feeling comfortable there, if you don't know other people. Almost wherever I've been, when you're standing on the sidelines it can seem like everyone there knows lots of people, except me.

If someone is coming to Jango for the first time, who doesn't know many people there, I advise them that they'll probably feel intimidated there. I liken it to walking into an intimate party in someone's lounge, where all the other people there know each other, that would intimidate me. One of the regulars, and one of the most popular of "members" to Jango was feeling sick with nerves the first time she went.

My advice to anyone trying out a new venue is don't dislike it because you feel out of place, you're the only one who can change that. If you don't like the music, or the style of dance, that's fine, but don't make instant judgements about the people until you've given it a chance, and that can be scary & requires effort on your part.

Greg

[latinlover]

I from a punters point of view, I don't want to be converting more people to Jango, I like it just as it is!:yeah:

One of the regulars, ........................to Jango was feeling sick with nerves the first time she went.Me too:sick:

My advice to anyone trying out a new venue is don't dislike it because you feel out of place, you're the only one who can change that. If you don't like the music, or the style of dance, that's fine, but don't make instant judgements about the people until you've given it a chance, and that can be scary & requires effort on your part.What he said! :yeah:

[under par]

<<<<< lots of really well said things>>>>(great post):worthy:
Greg

:yeah: I too like Gt Bookham:flower:

[Paul F]

:yeah: I too like Gt Bookham:flower:
I spoke to 2 people at Ashtead last week that told me Bookham was their favourite venue.

It had better be good after all this :D

[Mary]

:yeah: I too like Gt Bookham:flower:


Great Bookham does have it's own unique and cosy atmosphere, and is even better now it has the blues room as well. If you like a fast floor, you will like the floor at Great Bookham.

John Miller plays a pretty eclectic mix of stuff, and no one is going to love all the stuff he plays, but he is keen to please and is happy to play requests. He does like to, well, chat a bit between tracks. Sometimes this is OK if you want a chance to grab some water and wipe one's moist brow.

Oh, and water is free, soft drinks sold at cost price, bring your own beer.:cheers:

M

[under par]

I spoke to 2 people at Ashtead last week that told me Bookham was their favourite venue.

It had better be good after all this :D


Argh !!! but any venue after visiting Jango would be........................nah sorry I shouldn't go there:whistle:

[Paul F]

Argh !!! but any venue after visiting Jango would be........................nah sorry I shouldn't go there:whistle:


Careful there Mr UP :cool:
:D

[KatieR]

Careful there Mr UP :cool:
:D

**FLUFFY BUNNIES**

[Gus]

......but no-one was particularly interested in some random pair of teenagers who weren't forumites or Jango regulars.

Jango is a SuperClub ...... but enigmatic and unapproachable if you're just another Joe/Jo public.Just thinking about my experience last night at a club last night and reflecting on this comment, and similar ones made. After having a superb time at Surbiton, I exepected more of the same. WRONG :( . I went with someone I knew, whioch wa just as well or I would probably have had to sit most of the night out. In the whole night I got asked twice, and one of them is someone I'd met at a previous event. I got a little brassed off having to beg for dances .... even having to brave the refusal corner. The night was typified by asking one lass who responded with a mega-unenthusiastic "I suppose so". If the dancers WERE Superclub standard (or even as good as Surbiton) I may be able to undetstand it ... but they were'nt. or was it just my aftershave :tears: :tears:

Maybe the problem of being unfriendly to strangers is more endemic than we sometimes would like to accept.:sad:

[David Bailey]

Just thinking about my experience last night at a club last night and reflecting on this comment, and similar ones made. After having a superb time at Surbiton, I exepected more of the same.
Sounds like a "venue review" candidate to me? Go on, name and shame, I dare you.


In the whole night I got asked twice, and one of them is someone I'd met at a previous event. I got a little brassed off having to beg for dances .... even having to brave the refusal corner.
If it's a new venue to you, where no-one knows you, and if there's not a huge number of ladies over, it's not unusual that you'd have to ask more than you're asked, surely? You're an unknown quantity, and the onus is on you to take more initiative.

And what's wrong with begging for a dance, I do that all the time :)


The night was typified by asking one lass who responded with a mega-unenthusiastic "I suppose so".
:rofl: Ouch - I think I'd have backed out at that point, you're a braver man than me.


If the dancers WERE Superclub standard (or even as good as Surbiton) I may be able to undetstand it ... but they were'nt.
What, good dancers are supposed to be more snooty than bad ones?


Maybe the problem of being unfriendly to strangers is more endemic than we sometimes would like to accept.:sad:
It's a London thing, you wouldn't understand it, being a foreigner and all. :whistle:

But yes, familiarity definitely makes a difference - you've got to work a room if you're a stranger, much more than otherwise.

Heck, if you went to Finchley regularly, even the Evil Dancers there might ask you for a dance occasionally.

[Mary]

Maybe the problem of being unfriendly to strangers is more endemic than we sometimes would like to accept.:sad:


Yep, it's a southern thing.:wink:

Although, just to even up the scales, when I went to your venue in the North Gus last year, I didn't know a soul, and I was on my own. No one was unfriendly, but I felt I did have to be bold and do most of the asking to get any dances. I wouldn't really expect it to be otherwise, but it is hard when you're a shy lass who doesn't know a soul.

Scotland on the other hand..................... they just don't care who you are, they'll dance with anyone :whistle:

M

[ChrisA]

Scotland on the other hand..................... they just don't care who you are, they'll dance with anyone :whistle:

I don't understand any of this.

The only people that have refused me in recent times (the last year or so) are people that know me anyway - which is fine by me, since if someone has a reason not to dance with me then I'd rather they did turn me down.

But I danced in Scotland for the first time last week at the BFG, and I didn't notice any difference in friendliness than I do anywhere else. I asked some people, and I was asked by some people. There was no one falling over themselves to be especially welcoming, or unwelcoming*

I think this whole "unwelcoming" thing is cobblers. If you're new somewhere, you have to work a bit to become known - get over it :rolleyes:

* with one exception :drool:

[Gadget]

Never mind the BFG or Scottish venues: I would act the same way in any venue I went to anywhere - enter (normally as the doors open:blush: ), find a seat to dump my bag, perhaps get a drink, find someone who is alone or tapping their feet to the music already, and ask them to dance. After that one, I find someone else. And someone else. ... Untill the end of the night when the lights come up and the DJ switches off the decks.

OK, so I'm a freak, but the only thing that would make a club a "super club" to me would be the music - and since I have very {very} eclectic tastes, only those clubs that play a theme of one sort or another would exclude themselves from my idea of a "super club". Half the reason I am not a great fan of Salsa or any of the ballroom dances: repetative, sameie music.

I would say the the definition coming accross here of "super clubs" in London/England are actually more like "Private Clubs" where the members are vetted and there is a definite sense of "them" and "us".

[ChrisA]

I would say the the definition coming accross here of "super clubs" in London/England are actually more like "Private Clubs" where the members are vetted and there is a definite sense of "them" and "us".
Er, this is another triumph of imagination over reality. There are no venues of which I'm aware in London which fit this definition.

Except of course, Ceroc, which is members only, and if you can't prove you're a member, you have to join again :D

[Andy McGregor]

Firstly, the "super clubs". They exist in the minds of the people who travel massive distances, passing many less "super" clubs on the way there. They are clubs where you like dancing with the other "super" (in your opinion) regulars, where you like the music, etc. But they don't exist outside the imaginations of those people who think the club is super. And maybe you have to think you're "super" to attend this club that you think is "super" - but, again, that's all in your mind:whistle:

On the subject of refusal at an MJ night. IT'S WRONG TO REFUSE! The culture of MJ is that you accept the offer of a dance. If you don't like it find a hobby with a different culture.

How do you handle it if you're refused? That's up to you, but I would recommend that you handle it in the same way as any other rude behavior. For me that's getting annoyed inside but not showing it too much :wink: IMHO the person that refused you a dance is a loser on so many levels you don't need to react in a way that makes you a loser too :flower: If you attend a night and get turned down or treated in an offhand manner by a small number of people my recommendation is to behave as if those individuals weren't in the room. Once you've discounted those losers it's nice to re-evaluate the night based on those non-losers you've met.

At our own nights we have a policy of reminding people to ask strangers to dance. We remind them that they've already met in the lesson so they aren't complete strangers. We remind them that they're at a dance class so they shouldn't be surprised if someone asks them to dance. We tell the girls that they don't have to say "yes" to every guy that asks for a dance - but they should give them a reason for refusal that leaves them with their dignity :flower: (I usually give an example of a valid reason at this point, broken leg, out of breath, need a drink, open artery, etc). We tell the guys that they must never say no as it takes some ladies a great deal of courage to ask them. We tell the guys that they should hide outside if they fancy a break rather than stay inside and turn down the offer of a dance so they can have a break. I'm pleased to say that I've not had any reports of refusals at one of our nights.

[ChrisA]

I think we need to move away from using the word "club" to describe a dance venue. It conjures up completely the wrong connotations.

In fact, now that I think about it, it's mostly Gus that uses the term (quite innocently, I'm sure, to mean "your average weeknight MJ thing, with classes and freestyle till 11-ish", and to distinguish it from weekend freestyle nights).

It ends up getting used a lot in the threads that he contributes a lot to, and elsewhere to a lesser extent, but I think it's a bit unhelpful.

Because they're not clubs, really. They're nothing at all like night clubs. And they're nothing like clubs that have criteria setting out who can join and who can't.

Calling them clubs gives them a completely undeserved air of exclusivity, which the rabidly anti-hotshot brigade love to seize upon and thereby have a dig at people with preferences for certain types of venue, clientele and music.

They are just venues, with floors, music and dancers, that some people like and dislike for a variety of reasons, and they wax and wane, come and go.


Firstly, the "super clubs". They exist in the minds of the people who travel massive distances, passing many less "super" clubs on the way there. They are clubs where you like dancing with the other "super" (in your opinion) regulars, where you like the music, etc. But they don't exist outside the imaginations of those people who think the club is super. And maybe you have to think you're "super" to attend this club that you think is "super" - but, again, that's all in your mind:whistle:

I would remind the gentle reader, that it wasn't all that long ago, when there was a dearth of super venues in the Brighton area, that Mr McGregor would travel massive distances to Hipsters, passing less super venues on the way. He seemed, as I recall, to like the music, the teaching, and the dancers there quite a lot, and raved about it just as anyone else raves about places that are particularly special to them.

Now of course, he provides music and teaching more locally to himself.

Which is super...

... but not a reason to knock people for going to venues they like, or talking about them.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Are we going back to the era of ding-dong knockabout arguments between ChrisA and Andy McG? Hurrah! It's been far too long.

[Andy McGregor]

I would remind the gentle reader, that it wasn't all that long ago, when there was a dearth of super venues in the Brighton area, that Mr McGregor would travel massive distances to Hipsters, passing less super venues on the way. He seemed, as I recall, to like the music, the teaching, and the dancers there quite a lot, and raved about it just as anyone else raves about places that are particularly special to them.

Now of course, he provides music and teaching more locally to himself.

Which is super...

... but not a reason to knock people for going to venues they like, or talking about them.Absolutely right we often went to Hipsters twice a week. Then I looked at the mileage on Sue's bought from new Mini Cooper S - It's 65,000 miles in 3 years! Much of it done on the M23, M25, M3, South Circ, North Circ, Ealing High Street. And we often took my Discovery so those miles were massive. And we were travelling to Woking, Portsmouth, Dartford, etc, etc. Not only do we now have a good venue* in walking distance, we've stopped contributing so massively to global warming :wink:


*It's taken over a year of hard work and a lot of expense and heartache** to reach the point where I can say our venue is "good".

**Banned by 3 local organisers, libellous email sent by one of them accusing Sue of being his stalker, many rumours started by them about our financial status, marital status, affairs, motivation, employment, etc, etc, :tears:

[Andy McGregor]

Are we going back to the era of ding-dong knockabout arguments between ChrisA and Andy McG? Hurrah! It's been far too long.ChrisA and I have agreed on something in the past. But I can't remember what it was :innocent:

[ChrisA]

*It's taken over a year of hard work and a lot of expense and heartache** to reach the point where I can say our venue is "good".

And I totally commend you for it :clap:

From what I gather, you've improved the choice of dance venues on the south coast, which is fab.

[Andy McGregor]

And I totally commend you for it :clap:

From what I gather, you've improved the choice of dance venues on the south coast, which is fab.Thank you :flower:

I'll know we've really done it when people drive from Ealing/London* on a wet Thursday night to come to our classes :waycool:

*anyone prepared to do that can have free entry :devil:

[ChrisA]

Thank you :flower:

I'll know we've really done it when people drive from Ealing/London* on a wet Thursday night to come to our classes :waycool:

*anyone prepared to do that can have free entry :devil:

Does it have to be raining (and if so, where?) to get the free entry? :devil:

[Gadget]

Er, this is another triumph of imagination over reality. There are no venues of which I'm aware in London which fit this definition.Yup. probably not. It's just that when you get people chatting on the forum about a particular venue/night/class/event and raving about how good it is(was) and how many other forumites were there... etc. it seems a bit circular: comments are addressed to individuals rather than the community as a whole; in-jokes and references that only other people attending (or in the "in crowd") would pick up on, etc. Nothing wrong with that - most of the time it's limited to specific threads and you know when you blunder in on somthing that's over your head.


Except of course, Ceroc, which is members only, and if you can't prove you're a member, you have to join again :D
ah, but there are no requirements for joining other than you have the cash. (and it would probably be cheaper joining again than paying for a normal night's entry)

I do get your point about Ceroc (/MJ) nights being called "Clubs" - perhaps that's where a lot of the tint on my perception comes in; the inbuilt connotations in the language used.

[Andy McGregor]

Does it have to be raining (and if so, where?) to get the free entry? :devil:Good question. On second thoughts, you can come in for free if it's dark for your return journey to London :whistle: :innocent:

Just send me a PM so I can put you on the special guest list for long distance travellers. Anybody travelling 50 miles or more each way is spending so much on petrol I'm only too pleased to let them in for free :flower:

[Paul F]

Goo
Just send me a PM so I can put you on the special guest list for long distance travellers. Anybody travelling 50 miles or more each way is spending so much on petrol I'm only too pleased to let them in for free :flower:

Just out of interest, what proof do you ask for from a dancer that they live outside the 50 mile radius?

[Will]

**Banned by 3 local organisers, libellous email sent by one of them accusing Sue of being his stalker, many rumours started by them about our financial status, marital status, affairs, motivation, employment, etc, etc, :tears:
And there was I thinking that Brightnam had gained an unfair reputation...

[Andy McGregor]

Just out of interest, what proof do you ask for from a dancer that they live outside the 50 mile radius?
Just the word of a dancer and forum member is enough for me.

[Andy McGregor]

And there was I thinking that Brightnam had gained an unfair reputation...Things are changing. People now have a choice and they are voting with their feet. A couple of weeks ago one of our regulars asked me what a particular dance in Hove was like - I told her I couldn't say because the organiser had banned me. I recommended she went and made her own mind up or went to a MoJive dance in Portsmouth that I did recommend. She went to Hove and told me that the dance, in Hove Town Hall which has a huge capacity, was "dreadful" and had less than 30 people at it...

.. I tried not to gloat, I really did :whistle:

[David Bailey]

Just the word of a dancer and forum member is enough for me.
Awww.

Hold on, :eek: , who's this impostor stealing Andy McGregor's ID?


.. I tried not to gloat, I really did :whistle:
Oh, there he is...

[Paul F]

Just the word of a dancer and forum member is enough for me.

Im intrigued now.

Its a very admirable policy. Just one more question :blush:

What if a random gentleman came upto you at your night, knowing of this generous offer, and mentioned he drives from London every week. Would he get in for free?

[Andy McGregor]

Im intrigued now.

Its a very admirable policy. Just one more question :blush:

What if a random gentleman came upto you at your night, knowing of this generous offer, and mentioned he drives from London every week. Would he get in for free?Yes - I'm a trusting soul.

I'd even hope that he came with some random London women - can I choose them? :devil:

[Andy McGregor]

Oh, there he is...:devil: