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LMC
19th-October-2005, 04:35 PM
From this thread (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6675):


More from the followers point of view, at Rebel Yell recently, Sarah Van Drake was talking about how to make every dance interesting, and how to see even an awful lead as a challenge, making what you can out of the dance. If I remember correctly she was talking about circumstances where you would have to "decipher" his lead through all the "noise" that was going on, so the following itself is a challenge, but also adding to the dance, by listening to the music and improvising. Maybe one of the ladies who were there can explain this better.
I didn't want to hijack that thread...

Interesting that Greg brought this up as it's something I've been thinking about over the last few days. I wasn't at Rebel Yell, but Lory and I had a chat about this, ooooh, must be a couple of months ago, when I was asking how a follower can make a bad dance better - after all, the lead is in control, so I persist in believing that it can frequently (although not always) be far more frustrating for an experienced follower to be dancing with a bad or beginner lead than the other way around. And Lory said pretty much the same thing - look on a poor or limited (beginner) dance as a challenge e.g. focus on improving your own style.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a gap in experience between "intermediate enough to get frustrated" and "experienced enough to multi-task" - i.e. be able to follow the lead well, whilst also focussing on other aspects of your own dancing. I'm starting to think I might, one day, be able to bridge that gap - dancing with a four-move-only first-timer the other day, I found that I was able to think about what I was doing with my spare arm (not enough, practice needed :blush: ) at the same time as following (and smiling of course).

Footwork has been suggested as another area to "play" with (as long as it doesn't distract your partner) - and I found putting in some salsa steps helped me enjoy and keep smiling (rather than getting frustrated) with a partner earlier this week who was leading intermediate moves to his very own (and very slow) beat which resembled the beat of the fairly fast Latin track we were dancing to in no way whatsoever.

It's literally only this week that I'm beginning to feel like I might, one day, be able to improvise "naturally" - a step change for me. At the moment, I can only think about all these little extras with a very slow or very beginner lead - but it's a start.

So I would be really interested in further feedback/opinion on Sarah's (and Lory's) thoughts please?

(I daren't say "discuss")

ChrisA
19th-October-2005, 04:48 PM
improvise "naturally" - a step change for me.
:rofl:

Jazz_Shoes (Ash)
19th-October-2005, 10:03 PM
Yea, I know what you mean. If i'm dancing with a bad lead I either fight it, but I usually just go with it and do my own thing to try to make us look like we are actually having an ok dance, it usually makes me enjoy the dance much better too :D Sometimes it can be hard though, especially when they are trying to be forceful. I'm sure you're great at improvising LMC :wink:

I just can't stand the bad dancers who think they're really good, so if you can't follow a move they yell 'NO! lets do it again' :rolleyes:

I bet what i've said has absolutely nothing to do with what you just said, lol

Minnie M
19th-October-2005, 10:36 PM
I was at Rebel Yell and at the class Sheepy was talking about - my understanding was:-


"decipher" his lead through all the "noise" that was going on, so the following itself is a challenge, but also adding to the dance, by listening to the music and improvising.

when the lead is that strong and 'noisey' - you need to forget about the music being played and try and 'hear' what your partner is listening to :whistle: and go with it. I personally find that very difficult, although a real challenge - there only a few followers who can do that well, one of them is Lily Barker :worthy: she makes it look so easy.

LMC
19th-October-2005, 11:23 PM
I find a noisy lead almost impossible to follow too :sad:

I left that bit in for completeness, but it was really the first bit of the quote that I was interested in:


... how to see even an awful lead as a challenge, making what you can out of the dance
although it sounds like Sarah was only talking about it in the context of noisiness (the second part of the quote), the "awful lead" bit could mean any kind of shortcoming IMO.

I would include beginner leads in that "challenge" aspect - NOT because they are awful (that would be a bit unfair!) - but they are less experienced and limited to a smaller number of moves.

Gadget
20th-October-2005, 12:59 AM
Why is the advice only applicable to followers? I think it's excelent advice to any dancer.

MartinHarper
20th-October-2005, 09:54 AM
Why is the advice only applicable to followers? I think it's excelent advice to any dancer.

When I'm leading I generally don't have to fret because my partner has a noisy lead. I do have to deal with noisy/lossy following arms, but there are different techniques for that.

Yes, improvising/playing/whatever is applicable to both leading and following. However, there are lots of differences in how it works in practice, so I think it's reasonable to have a seperate thread.


I would include beginner leads in that "challenge" aspect - NOT because they are awful (that would be a bit unfair!) - but they are less experienced and limited to a smaller number of moves.

On the other hand, if you are facing a continual stream of first moves, it gives you more chances to put in style points that only occur to you after the end of the move. Eg:

L: First Move, please.
F: Here you are.
L: That's great, but I want another.
F: Here you are. (ooh - I want to practice that first move variation where I drop down low and sweep my foot out)
L: You know what would be great next? A first move.
F: Here you are. (darn, missed it - I'll do it next time round)
L: Umm... can you just do another first move while I think?
F: Here you are. (darn, again)
L: I know! A first move!
F: What do you think of this low sweepy variation I've come up with? (yes! it worked!)
L: Woah! Cool. Can you do it again?
F: Here's a normal first move instead. (darn, missed it)

LMC
20th-October-2005, 10:12 AM
Yes, improvising/playing/whatever is applicable to both leading and following. However, there are lots of differences in how it works in practice, so I think it's reasonable to have a seperate thread.
Yeah, and I'm a follower, so that's why I angled this thread towards followers. But the leader's version would be equally interesting (even if of less practical relevance) if someone wants to start one...


On the other hand, if you are facing a continual stream of first moves, it gives you more chances to put in style points that only occur to you after the end of the move.
Precisely, thanks for making that point much better than I did. AFA first moves/yo-yos and other "twist the lady out" moves are concerned, I'm practising my rondés (still terrible) - I don't think that that should be *too* distracting for a nervous new lead?