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David Franklin
30th-September-2005, 11:19 AM
Lifton's Eight Criteria (from various websites):

Cult members attempt to bring a potential recruit onto group territory, a milieu or area they can control. Surrounded by people who enthusiastically share a common belief, the individual may become insecure in his beliefs--and is often too far from friends and family to talk with them and do a "reality check.
MJ venues, weekenders, BeachBoogie... Check.
Sets up a sense of antagonism with the outside world; it's "us against them".
Muggles v.s. dancers... Check.


At the beginning stage the recruit may think he/she is joining a fun social club where the group caters to their every need. After all, during the initial phases of recruitment the recruiters treat a newcomer like royalty--often giving the impression that this may be what the group is all about. But actually this is only done to gain initial commitment. Once the newcomer makes his/her commitment to the group, often even in writing--things change.
We all love beginners - it's those people who've been coming for years and don't improve... Check.


If a new recruit expresses difficulty in complying with this demanding new lifestyle--subsequent harsh rebukes make him feel bad and negative about these seemingly personal flaws and failings. Through continually finding ways to lower a follower's self-esteem, often through a relentless and ever-increasing "demand for purity"--cult leaders can more effectively maintain their control and promote dependency upon the group/leader(s) for a sense of self-worth.
"Refusal Row"... Check.


Destructive group recruiters also often use the "Cult of Confession" to gain control over new recruits. Through a potential member's personal confession--cults gain valuable information about someone's vulnerabilities and sense of shame. Thus the group gathers meaningful information later used to manipulate the newcomer.
This forum... Check.


Cultists present their ideology as a virtual "Sacred Science" to newcomers. Cult recruiters relate their doctrine often with an air of scientific certainty--to convince the more critical thinkers amongst recruits of the validity and precision of their beliefs. People are more apt to accept an ideology that appears to be scientific.
The 'footwork' debate... Check.


A special jargon that gives the members a feeling of exclusiveness and that they possess some esoteric knowledge. This "loaded language" helps build solidarity amongst an elite group that speak the same cultic verbiage/lingo.
Accordian-Hatchback-Nelson... Check.


cultists insist that the newcomer completely surrender to their teachings
100 people copying every movement of their teachers... Check.


Only group members are really "walking in the light" --those outside the group are essentially somehow inferior and those within the group are seen as superior. Destructive groups often foster and reinforce this mentality by claiming to be the only ones who have a valid claim to truth.
Muggles v,s, Dancers, Ceroc v.s. Leroc, left foot back v.s. right foot back... Check.

Oh dear.... :devil:

David Bailey
30th-September-2005, 11:23 AM
That's exactly what I had in mind. Lovely. :worthy:

And quite scary...

stewart38
30th-September-2005, 11:27 AM
That's exactly what I had in mind. Lovely. :worthy:

And quite scary...

All joking aside it is very interesting

Lynn
30th-September-2005, 11:32 AM
Like it! :rofl:

Actually in all seriousness someone once commented to me that they thought it did feel a bit like being drawn into a cult!

Lynn
30th-September-2005, 11:35 AM
From a purely academic point of view I should really study this further. Of course that will mean dancing more often and with as many people as possible.

David Bailey
30th-September-2005, 11:42 AM
All joking aside it is very interesting
Joking?


From a purely academic point of view I should really study this further. Of course that will mean dancing more often and with as many people as possible.
Wow - I can see you actually being paid to infiltrate this secretive cult. Fantastic :rofl:

bigdjiver
30th-September-2005, 11:47 AM
I have long been considering what MJ could learn from cult marketing. Things missing, at least in my haunts, are the drive from the top to bring in new members, that is all natural and voluntary, and the chasing up of recidivists. There is no organised "you stopped coming, why?" follow-up.
I think Ceroc has it right. One of the factors that make Ceroc such an enjoyable experience is the relaxed sense of freedom, the lack of such pressures.

stewart38
30th-September-2005, 11:52 AM
I have long been considering what MJ could learn from cult marketing. Things missing, at least in my haunts, are the drive from the top to bring in new members, that is all natural and voluntary, and the chasing up of recidivists. There is no organised "you stopped coming, why?" follow-up.
I think Ceroc has it right. One of the factors that make Ceroc such an enjoyable experience is the relaxed sense of freedom, the lack of such pressures.

Well existing members will chase the newbies , Lets face it 95% of newbies come with an existing member or at least know of someone who has gone

when people stop posting on this thread, we have threads that ask why

Im not conviced yet that im not in a cult, ok i better go do some work. mmmmmm nope its nearly weekend ill stay here

David Bailey
30th-September-2005, 11:52 AM
I have long been considering what MJ could learn from cult marketing. Things missing, at least in my haunts, are the drive from the top to bring in new members, that is all natural and voluntary, and the chasing up of recidivists. There is no organised "you stopped coming, why?" follow-up.
And no scary individuals standing at the door and stopping you from leaving.

Actually, that form of follow-up marketing is called retention - it's not unreasonable, most companies with a large customer base do that sort of thing. It's cheaper to chase up an existing customer than trying to find a new one.

stewart38
30th-September-2005, 11:59 AM
And no scary individuals standing at the door and stopping you from leaving.

Actually, that form of follow-up marketing is called retention - it's not unreasonable, most companies with a large customer base do that sort of thing. It's cheaper to chase up an existing customer than trying to find a new one.

why should they stop you leaving they know you will be back ??

But people say as you leave 'see you next week' what if you said sorry ill be at my sister wedding

response will be a great shame pity it clashes couldnt you get your sister to change her wedding day or pretend your ill. :whistle:


or im seeing friends next week, well cancel them :whistle:

David Franklin
30th-September-2005, 12:09 PM
Actually in all seriousness someone once commented to me that they thought it did feel a bit like being drawn into a cult!At the risk of offending teachers, from the outside, the CTA looks even more like a cult. As much as anything, it's the secrecy - the selected 'acolytes' are taken off on an exclusive 'training course' to learn lots of 'mystical' techniques (red moves, anyone?), many of which they promise never to reveal to the uninitiated...

And after the course, they have all been mysteriously changed into clones who sing the praises of Ceroc... :devil:

David Bailey
30th-September-2005, 12:16 PM
At the risk of offending teachers, from the outside, the CTA looks even more like a cult. As much as anything, it's the secrecy - the selected 'acolytes' are taken off on an exclusive 'training course' to learn lots of 'mystical' techniques (red moves, anyone?), many of which they promise never to reveal to the uninitiated...
Ooer, you're scaring me now.

And don't forget the Secret Vocab - "It's a good teach" grates on me particularly...


And after the course, they have all been mysteriously changed into clones who sing the praises of Ceroc... :devil:
:rofl: You're channelling My Sacred Words? BLASPHEMER!!

Lynn
30th-September-2005, 12:20 PM
Wow - I can see you actually being paid to infiltrate this secretive cult. Fantastic :rofl:Ooh, yes, do you think I could get a grant from somewhere? To fund field trips (dancing holidays and weekenders). :rofl:

Actually someone I know did study an MJ class as part of an anthropology paper. I couldn't go along when he delivered the lecture, but I think it might have been published somewhere.

David Franklin
30th-September-2005, 12:44 PM
Actually someone I know did study an MJ class as part of an anthropology paper. I couldn't go along when he delivered the lecture, but I think it might have been published somewhere.It probably went a little like this...


It was with a sense of trepidation that I joined the throng of 'jivers' as they entered the venue. I had tried to blend in; I had my spray-on tan, the black and white shoes, the dance tights, and my top had enough sequins to dazzle even Stevie Wong^h^hnder.

But as I tried to enter, I was asked for my Secret Recognition card, also known as a 'Cerec' card. When I explained that I didn't have one, the invigilator gave me a form to fill in. The beginning questions about my contact details were normal enough, but I was perturbed to be asked "have you ever had an orgasm when you shouldn't?", and by the time I got to "which dancer would you most like to sleep with?" I was seriously worried.

Soon the class started. The jivers automatically paired up and formed into 3 lines - obviously they had already been deeply conditioned. The cult-leader, or 'teacher' as he liked to style himself demonstrated a sequence of occult movements that we were supposed to follow. Of course, many of us recruits were unable to perform the movements correctly, resulting in much derision from the stage - "no, your other left" - obviously all part of a plan to break down our self-esteem and leave us vulnerable.

After the intermediate class, the new recruits were told to go off into a special room for intensive indoctrination. I was paired up with an attractive recruiter in a 'Cerec' (remember, Secret Cult) t-shirt, who proceeded to place his hands all over my body under the pretense of showing me the movements. I have rarely seen such a blatent attempt at love-bombing. "Trust me" he told me, "I'm the leader. I'm in charge."

It was at this point that I decided to make my excuses and leave...

Lynn
30th-September-2005, 12:53 PM
It probably went a little like this... :rofl:

spindr
30th-September-2005, 06:58 PM
Hmmmm, footnote 14 perchance? (http://www.afterfive.co.uk/guide/latest/html/what_is_modern_jive.html#footnote-d0e998)
SpinDr

Baruch
30th-September-2005, 08:25 PM
Ooh, yes, do you think I could get a grant from somewhere? To fund field trips (dancing holidays and weekenders). :rofl:
A new religious movement, eh? Well, lots of movement at dance classes, at any rate.

Do you need a research assistant? :rofl:

Little Monkey
1st-October-2005, 02:57 PM
Things missing, at least in my haunts, are the drive from the top to bring in new members

Ummmmm....... We do busks, including chasing after poor, innocent muggles, giving them leaflets and telling them that ceroc is what's really missing from their lives, and if you don't do MJ your life is not complete...... :whistle: Not that much different from the 'hallelujah' singing bible-bashers who thrust leaflets at you and ask you if you've found Jesus......... :D


I think Ceroc has it right. One of the factors that make Ceroc such an enjoyable experience is the relaxed sense of freedom, the lack of such pressures.

Ummmmm...... Apart from the taxi-dancers, of course. Who are told to encourage people to come back, and bang on about beginners workshops etc. :D 'Thou shalt participate in the beginners workshop, only then will you see the light!' :rofl:

Stuart
2nd-October-2005, 12:09 AM
Ummmmm....... We do busks, including chasing after poor, innocent muggles, giving them leaflets and telling them that ceroc is what's really missing from their lives, and if you don't do MJ your life is not complete...... :whistle: Not that much different from the 'hallelujah' singing bible-bashers who thrust leaflets at you and ask you if you've found Jesus......... :D

Or the Hare Krishna you see down Oxford Street

Raul
2nd-October-2005, 08:29 PM
Or the Hare Krishna you see down Oxford Street

The Guys who started the Fox's den were in Oxford Street!
Were they in saffron robes?

Stuart
2nd-October-2005, 08:32 PM
The Guys who started the Fox's den were in Oxford Street!
Were they in saffron robes?

Didn't see them.

Cruella
2nd-October-2005, 08:41 PM
The Guys who started the Fox's den were in Oxford Street!
Were they in saffron robes?
No they were in Debenhams :rofl:

Northants Girly
2nd-October-2005, 10:34 PM
No they were in Debenhams :rofl:I had them all down as Matalan Men! :whistle: