Advance Weekender

[Minnie M]

I have seriously thought of organising an Advance Weekender

Joseph & Trisha did a Lindy one, they called it Lindyversity and it was very sucessful - they just used Steve Mitchell + his partner Virginee

It would have to be invitation only to ensure the level and the teachers would possibly be international

I believe that advance dancers are not interested in learning new moves in MJ ... so how does this grab you :-

Top US WCS teachers (eg: Robert Cordoba etc)
Top Salsa teachers - have to ask about that one
Top Lindy/Balboa Teachers - could use Dan & Christie for this one
and my favourite
Steve Mitchell for styling and musicality

The maximum of 200 dancers and the venue to be a hotel with a decent ballroom

+ DJs TWK & Dance Demon plus will ask the teachers to do some DJing ???

The cost would be (depending of who was booked) between £150 and £250 inclusive of weekend + half board at hotel

Could cut the cost and just have one the pros teaching just two lessons per day and the rest of the time would be for socialising

Comments Please ............

[jivecat]

Well, no-one's said "Silly idea" yet, Minnie! But how the hell would you organise selective invitations? Rather you than me.

[Minnie M]

Well, no-one's said "Silly idea" yet, Minnie! But how the hell would you organise selective invitations? Rather you than me.

Yes that would be the difficult bit, I thinking of may be dancing for one year plus minimum and then I suppose you just have to trust people to be honest about their ability.

The invitation bit, could cause bad feeling - I was hoping some forumites would come up with ideas

[Little Monkey]

Hmmmmm...

Well, I do like the idea of a weekender with a guaranteed 'minimum level' of dancers as well as top teachers. But an 'invitation only' weekender would probably be a sure-fire way to fall out with rather a lot of people, all in one go..... Rather you than me, Minnie!! :sick:

LM :hug:

[doc martin]

Only 8 votes so far, but the thing that really stands out is the 100% in favour of the styling/musicality. That makes me think that this is something that people are wanting a lot, weekender or no weekender.

[Chicklet]

.
The invitation bit, could cause bad feeling - I was hoping some forumites would come up with ideas
Personal opinion, and I'll stand by it in face of any flaming, is that if a bunch of people who know each other or "get invited" by a central person who has volunteered to organise such a thing or by being friend of a friend of that person then that's a great thing. It's the phantom clique thing all over again, and I personally hate to see people putting other people down for getting on with it and having a good time.

Anyone who gets upset and thinks they were "owed" an invitation should remember that they are not in primary school, we don't all have to have the same carton of orange juice.

A "bonus" weekender such as this should be seen as just that, nothing has been taken away from the people who don't go, they just didn't get the bonus.

I for one would be delighted to hear that some people, somewhere, some time had a good time at something. End of ( :blush: ).

[Andy McGregor]

Is it any coincidence that a 'top Lindy teacher' is as popular as a 'silly idea'? :devil:

[Paul F]

I guess this is along the same lines of thinking that I had for the "advanced class in london" thread.

Its tricky to organise. I think thats a given.

However, i am all for it. I am all for it in the same way that I was all for the idea of approving people in the class before they could move up to the next level - similar to the classes in Oz.

the issue of 'qualification' is one that I can see everyone benefitting from.

My eternal optimist side forsees a time when people dont mind that they do not qualify for class x or weekend y. They are not in it to excel but rather enjoy it.
On the other hand some people will strive to get on that exclusive weekender. They may make it, they may not. If they are not invited they may then stop dancing but I would suggest we lose just as many people who simply lose interest as we would people who drop out through lack of qualification.

Ok, it would generate a core group of 'supreme' beings but I would imagine most of these people may be booked onto weekenders to teach amongst other things so ultimately the information would be passed on and we would all improve.
Loads of issues around this - "good dancer doesnt make good teacher" and so on. Im tired so im just typing.



Alternatively if a weekend goes ahead and i am not invited i may boil with rage and go round kicking old people.

[Minnie M]

My favourite dance holiday was the WCS Cruise I did in 2002 -with the very top professional teachers

It was very interesting to see that at least half of the 200 people who attended were teachers themselves.

I know that Nigel & Nina always (try) and attend workshops etc., from some of the top US dancers.

With this in mind, I think (only an idea) I could invite (primarily) all the current MJ teachers and asked them to 'invite' their top students - how does that sound :innocent:

BTW this would be an event for Modern Jive dancers, I don't want WCS only or Lindy only etc.,

Wont it be great to know EVERY dancer in the hall (evening dance and dancing MJ) maybe as good or better than yourself (sorry if this offends - but to me this is dancing heaven)

[Lory]

Comments Please ............
Even numbers of ladies and men? :flower:

[ChrisA]

I've voted, but with some reservation.

If I was going to spend as much money as this on something where the theme was advanced dancing, I'd want the emphasis to be much more on the teaching than the freestyle, unlike the other weekenders - I wouldn't stay up all night dancing, to be too tired to actually learn anything the next day.

On a normal weekender, I know what I'll be doing - two or three workshops max, and a lot of freestyle. And it's not a disaster if the workshops aren't as good as I hoped.

But for this, I'd want to know, in advance, a lot more detail about what was actually going to be taught and by whom, and I'd also want a way of being confident that my money wasn't going to be wasted.

Because if my personal emphasis is on the teaching, I would end up extremely disappointed if (a) the teaching wasn't very good or (b) the class ended up being pitched at the wrong level for me. I mean, there's no way I'd go to an advanced Tango or WCS because I'm nowhere near good enough, so I wouldn't want to hold the rest of the class back. But I would go to an advanced jive class and expect to be able to at least cope - and I'd be really annoyed if the content had to be dumbed down to cater for people that shouldn't be there.

So I guess the issue is how to guarantee the level. Invitation only would do it of course. But of course then we'd have to deal with all the hard-done-bys. But maybe that's a price worth paying.

[ChrisA]

Anyone who gets upset and thinks they were "owed" an invitation should remember that they are not in primary school, we don't all have to have the same carton of orange juice.

Nice one :D

Have some rep.

[LMC]

What Chicklet said :yeah:

It's the same principle as a private party.


Wont it be great to know EVERY dancer in the hall (evening dance and dancing MJ) maybe as good or better than yourself (sorry if this offends - but to me this is dancing heaven)
And :yeah: too

There is NO WAY I would qualify at the moment - but as Paul F has said, it would give me something to strive for.

And hopefully those who came back would pass on some titbits to help me get there :nice:

[Clive Long]

<< snip >>
With this in mind, I think (only an idea) I could invite (primarily) all the current MJ teachers and asked them to 'invite' their top students - how does that sound :innocent:
<< snip >>
Wont it be great to know EVERY dancer in the hall (evening dance and dancing MJ) maybe as good or better than yourself (sorry if this offends - but to me this is dancing heaven)
I think it is great to aspire and work to improve one's own dancing. I also think it is great for someone to go along to MJ because he/she enjoys the social side and does no practice whatsoever - this has been covered elsewhere, many times.

However, I have great problems with the proposed "composition" of this premier division event.

OK, if it was a teacher's only conference where people could be exposed to new variations to keep them fresh - fine. At Southport I spoke to Sarah(?) who teaches on the South Coast. Sarah(?) says she is constantly looking for new inspiration so she doesn't go stale. A very open and positive attitude from an established teacher.

However, the idea of making the event invitation-only is invidious in my eyes. How does this "judging" for invitation occur? Do we have a nation-wide competition? Even the principle of having an exclusive event (ignoring the damaged, fragile egos of those who missed the "cut") really winds me up. Barriers to entry in anything get my goat - although I accept I am probably far too idealistic in that emotional response.

I can understand the desire to teach more complex and subtle dance "things". To deliver the class at the pace necessary to get through the material - your dancers have to be of a certain technical and "repertoire" standard. I understand this.

Now, if you have a grading and medal system like (as I understand) ballroom then "admission/selection" criteria to this event can be (as near as humanely possible) objective and evenly applied. MJ has no such structure (to my knowledge) and mate-ism/croneyism and long-standing personal animosities could affect the selection process.

But I fail to see what the "greater" benefit of getting the "MJ Invitation-Only All-Stars" together would be - but maybe I am missing the point of Minnie's proposal.

Sorry for going on - and I have probably over-reacted - but the invitation-only idea, even if done with the best intentions, hits all kinds of negative buttons for me.

Clive

[Paul F]

There are 2 different ways to look at this IMO

An intensive TEACHERS weekend to advance the knowledge of MJ and other styles nationwide.

OR

A general, invitation only, weekend for anyone considered advanced enough.


The first option, i imagine, would bring with it less hostility as it can be perceived as a benefit to the those not able to attend ie. good chance these teachers will bring back plenty of knowledge to teach and evolve.

The second option is where it gets tricky. Teacher / Non-Teacher is a defined divide, be it good or bad.To divide the general public. I am a little concerned about it. This WILL bring with it hostility by some.

Even if the first of these options was the way forward how do you define teacher? Is it somebody who makes their living teaching and does 6 classes a week or is it someone who has been 'trained' to teach a small group of folk on a sunday afternoon?



As much as I would like to see it (whether i would be invited or not) it does have so many difficulties.

[David Franklin]

There's no way I'd go to an advanced Tango or WCS because I'm nowhere near good enough, so I wouldn't want to hold the rest of the class back. But I would go to an advanced jive class and expect to be able to at least cope - and I'd be really annoyed if the content had to be dumbed down to cater for people that shouldn't be there.Which perhaps gives one hint - maybe the 'qualification level' needs to depend on the class being taught.


So I guess the issue is how to guarantee the level. Invitation only would do it of course.Other suggestion - allow all-levels, but in a way that doesn't let the bad dancers screw things up for everyone else. E.g.

A lot of musicality classes are virtually lectures - if you have 50 people who can't even keep a beat, they might not understand any of it, but that doesn't mean they cause problems for the rest. I think in particular, if you want WCS teachers to teach musicality, styling etc, it's not necessarily productive to do this in a standard format - everyone gets too caught up struggling with the WCS side of things. They might as well just teach and illustrate, and let us think about what they're demonstrating.

Don't do rotations in the usual way - let people form their own 'groups' to rotate in. If two beginners want to try the class together, that's their lookout. And if you have a group who know each other well, then it's easier for them to provide feedback and suggestions to each other. Of course, this begs the question of how you get invited into a group.

N.B. I'm fully aware the above doesn't really solve the overall problem - just something to think about...

[Feelingpink]

...

With this in mind, I think (only an idea) I could invite (primarily) all the current MJ teachers and asked them to 'invite' their top students - how does that sound :innocent:

...]

I like this idea or a variation on it - their top students or people they know? You 'should' get lots of overlap and it might help cover those people who would be good enough to attend, but don't go to a regular class. Some people can be brilliant after perhaps 18 months, others are just not going to get it after however many years.

It also might be interesting that while on the event, if it might become a regular one, that we have to anonymously rate others who are there - perhaps 20 other people you danced with? That way if there were any dancers who shouldn't have been at the first event, they get weeded out.


...
Other suggestion - allow all-levels, but in a way that doesn't let the bad dancers screw things up for everyone else. E.g.

A lot of musicality classes are virtually lectures - if you have 50 people who can't even keep a beat, they might not understand any of it, but that doesn't mean they cause problems for the rest. I think in particular, if you want WCS teachers to teach musicality, styling etc, it's not necessarily productive to do this in a standard format - everyone gets too caught up struggling with the WCS side of things. They might as well just teach and illustrate, and let us think about what they're demonstrating.... The only problem I can see with this is that there are different types of learners: those who are best doing, those who are best listening and those who are best seeing. This would only suit those who are best listening. Now, if you could combine all three AND not hold everyone back ... hmmm.

[ducasi]

It also might be interesting that while on the event, if it might become a regular one, that we have to anonymously rate others who are there - perhaps 20 other people you danced with? That way if there were any dancers who shouldn't have been at the first event, they get weeded out. Yikes! :really:

[Clive Long]

<< snip >>
That way if there were any dancers who shouldn't have been at the first event, they get weeded out.
<< snip >>

Maybe we could get Ann Robinson to abuse them before they left

or get Davina whats-her-name to shoot them on live TV with a humane killer. Think of the ratings !

Do you get the impressionI don't like this idea?

I will shut up now

Clive

[David Franklin]

I like this idea or a variation on it - their top students or people they know? You 'should' get lots of overlap and it might help cover those people who would be good enough to attend, but don't go to a regular class. Some people can be brilliant after perhaps 18 months, others are just not going to get it after however many years.Good point. Slight aside, but does anyone have an estimate for the number of MJ teachers in the country?


The only problem I can see with this is that there are different types of learners: those who are best doing, those who are best listening and those who are best seeing. This would only suit those who are best listening. Listening and seeing, surely - I was assuming the teacher would still demonstrate. Doing is harder - I guess you could have people going off in the corners to "have a go", but it's not a great solution.

If we're talking about time-limited workshops, I do think there's a spectrum between classes that really demand the students to be hands on, and classes which are effectively lectures. It would be crazy to teach a set of moves without allowing the students to do the moves themselves. But if you wanted to talk about choregraphing a showcase, I'm not sure there's much to be gained by trying to put the concepts into practice in a short space of time.

I also think if you're talking both "advanced" and "learning by doing", at some point you're probably better off getting a private lesson.

[ChrisA]

I can understand the desire to teach more complex and subtle dance "things". To deliver the class at the pace necessary to get through the material - your dancers have to be of a certain technical and "repertoire" standard. I understand this.
Well in that case, you need selection. It's either official (medals, tests etc, which we probably don't like), or unofficial.

You can't have it both ways.



But I fail to see what the "greater" benefit of getting the "MJ Invitation-Only All-Stars" together would be - but maybe I am missing the point of Minnie's proposal.

I don't know... the best will get better. That will certainly benefit those that get pleasure from progression. There will probably be some knock on benefit to those that dance with the attenders subsequently, and the teachers and taxis among them may be able to pass on some tips.

But why does there have to be a "Greater" benefit?



Sorry for going on - and I have probably over-reacted - but the invitation-only idea, even if done with the best intentions, hits all kinds of negative buttons for me.

I don't understand any reason for this other than sour grapes, I'm afraid.

I'm a beginner WCS dancer. If I heard about an advanced WCS weekend, invitation only, and I wasn't invited (obviously), I'd think, fab, good luck to them - nothing negative at all.

If I heard about the equivalent MJ weekend, and I wasn't invited, I'd be miffed. But I'd have to put up with it, and improve in time for the next one, or just resign myself to the fact that in the absence of a nationwide medals and tests system, knowledge of who's good has to be word of mouth, and sometimes that doesn't work with perfect fairness.

None of that should mean that the best aren't allowed to get away from it all and get some intensive advanced teaching once in a while.

[Minnie M]

..if I was going to spend as much money as this on something where the theme was advanced dancing, I'd want the emphasis to be much more on the teaching than the freestyle, unlike the other weekenders - I wouldn't stay up all night dancing, .

Sorry, didn't make that very clear ...

The theme most definitely would be on the advance teaching, that is why I might have to look beyond the UK to find suitable teachers that could teach us something new.


I wouldn't stay up all night dancing, to be too tired to actually learn anything the next day.
Might have to allow for a late morning starts to take this into account, can't cut the dancing time down

eg times - workshop times
11am to 1pm and 2pm to 7pm
dancing 10pm to whatever .............


..... I'd want to know, in advance, a lot more detail about what was actually going to be taught and by whom, and I'd also want a way of being confident that my money wasn't going to be wasted.

Most definitely :yeah:
Full details of the event (including the teaches and their TEACHING history) will be advertised / emailed / circulated BEFORE you make your decision


Because if my personal emphasis is on the teaching, I would end up extremely disappointed if (a) the teaching wasn't very good or (b) the class ended up being pitched at the wrong level for me. I mean, there's no way I'd go to an advanced Tango or WCS because I'm nowhere near good enough, so I wouldn't want to hold the rest of the class back. But I would go to an advanced jive class and expect to be able to at least cope - and I'd be really annoyed if the content had to be dumbed down to cater for people that shouldn't be there.

So I guess the issue is how to guarantee the level. Invitation only would do it of course. But of course then we'd have to deal with all the hard-done-bys. But maybe that's a price worth paying.

Hmmm..... this could cause a problem, might need to think more on that one. Might be an idea only to have TWO different dance styles/classes with two different levels, and you could choose which level you feel comfortable with, or let the teacher select the levels

BTW the teaching WILL be good :worthy: however, you may not like the style of the teaching, that is something else.


....So I guess the issue is how to guarantee the level. Invitation only would do it of course. But of course then we'd have to deal with all the hard-done-bys. But maybe that's a price worth paying.

This is definitely the hardest decision .... I would have to trust people to be honest, or pass the buck (see above)


........ But of course then we'd have to deal with all the hard-done-bys. But maybe that's a price worth paying.
The MONEY THING - to have the best teachers and a decent venue :tears: it would normally cost mega bucks - hwever, the good thing is I will be doing it and therefore it will really be non-profit making. For those who know me, know this will be true. As long as I am not out of pocket, I am quite happy to organise the whole thing.

It has been a kinda dream of mine which I have been thinking about for a couple of years now (since the Cruise)

One problem ........ I don't want to upset Organsers who think I am cashing in on their profession - if that happens, I will quite happily step back and let them do it.


Even numbers of ladies and men?
Most definitely :yeah: and I will make sure there is NO CHEATING :rolleyes:

[robd]

Perhaps another way to approach this is to think about why non-advanced dancers should be excluded and address those issues. As far as I can see, the only reason not to want people of any level in a class is that you may get them in rotation and their lack of competence may impair your ability to pick up/practice what's being taught. So if you can solve the rotation issue - rotate in small groups, fixed pairs, whatever - then I see no reason to have to try and assess suitability for entry. The classes can still be pitched at a suitable level of difficulty and it be made clear in publicity and from the stage that no concessions to beginners/intermediates will be made in the content of the class or the rate at which it's presented. Sink or swim.

I would not make the cut for an event based on an ability assessment so far and I am not sure that an advanced weekender would be something to strive for - I dance for my own enjoyment. My enjoyment is influenced heavily by how I perceive my partner is enjoying the dance (or otherwise). I like to improve my dancing so that my partners enjoy the dance more and thus I enjoy the dance more. Having said that, I did attend an intermediate Improvers (formerly know as Advanced!) workshop a couple of months back.

This is getting a bit rambly but I will just end by saying I did not book a place on a dips leans and seducers workshop after emailing the teacher asking what she expected the standard to be. Whilst she did not really give a definitive yes/no I made the decision that I wasn't ready for it at that point and I strongly feel that if people pay £30 or whatever for a workshop there is a responsibility on those attending to ensure they are not a long way from the standard needed. Others (based on my experience at some workshops and anecdotally) clearly don't feel the same responsibility and it is these people that in a roundabout way have given rise to this thread.

Robert

[Minnie M]

Perhaps another way to approach this is to think about why non-advanced dancers should be excluded

But then it wouldn't be a different type of weekend

There has never been a weekend in Modern Jive that has concentrated purely for the Advance Dancer (that includes the teachers which I sincerely hope fit that category)

As I have said in my first post, this has been done within the Lindy scene and it worked really well. The UK is now the home for Modern Jive, and if our top dancers aren't catered for ocassionally, they may eventually change their dance style (many have done this already)

I hardly ever do MJ workshops at weekenders mainly because I am happy with my MJ and am not interested in learning any more moves (if it is not leadable then I am not interested) therefore I am paying purely for the evening dances, pound for pound that works out a lot of money.

However, to be taught a new style with fellow dancers at my level OR to be taught styling and musicallity by a master :worthy: ............. say no more :flower:

[ChrisA]

As far as I can see, the only reason not to want people of any level in a class is that you may get them in rotation and their lack of competence may impair your ability to pick up/practice what's being taught.

Also class size. I defy any teacher to give advanced instruction in a huge hall with 500 or more people in it. The teacher can't see enough of what's going on for enough of the students, and the students will end up not being able to see properly. It happens enough in ordinary intermediate classes, let alone something more difficult.


So if you can solve the rotation issue - rotate in small groups, fixed pairs, whatever - then I see no reason to have to try and assess suitability for entry.

Who decides who's in which groups though? As soon as you make it self-selecting you're back to the same problem.


The classes can still be pitched at a suitable level of difficulty and it be made clear in publicity and from the stage that no concessions to beginners/intermediates will be made in the content of the class or the rate at which it's presented. Sink or swim.

This is necessary but not sufficient, in my view. You'd still get people trying and failing to do the class, and holding the rest up. If the class was entirely non-rotating, then fair enough, since if you have a partner then you can sink or swim without affecting others.


I strongly feel that if people pay £30 or whatever for a workshop there is a responsibility on those attending to ensure they are not a long way from the standard needed. Others (based on my experience at some workshops and anecdotally) clearly don't feel the same responsibility and it is these people that in a roundabout way have given rise to this thread.

... :yeah:

If only... :(

[ChrisA]

or let the teacher select the levels

There's the reason for the Friday night...

Get the teachers to dance with all the punters, say for a minute each, and if they don't pass muster they get relegated to the morning classes...

:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

Er, not sure that would really work :)


One problem ........ I don't want to upset Organsers who think I am cashing in on their profession - if that happens, I will quite happily step back and let them do it.

Unfortunately, the recent spate of Cambers and all the debate that followed it suggests that they may very well react like that. :(

[LMC]

There's the reason for the Friday night...

Get the teachers to dance with all the punters, say for a minute each, and if they don't pass muster they get relegated to the morning classes...

:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

Er, not sure that would really work :)
The whistles are giving even this blonde one a clue that you're not being entirely serious there :whistle:

But actually, I quite like the idea of the Friday freestyle being 'open', and being given some advice on what classes might be most beneficial to me - although a minute doesn't really seem enough to get a true idea of someone's level, it sometimes takes that long to get used to someone you've never danced with before (or is that just me? :blush: ). The main reason I would be regretful at being excluded from an 'advanced' event is that I would love to *watch* - I do learn from watching better dancers and enjoy doing so.

[Minnie M]

Get the teachers to dance with all the punters :(
I will give the teachers a 'contract' which states they must not refuse a dance and must spend at least 2 hours social dancing each evening :clap: at which time they could (if you wish to know - after the dance of course) give out advice, something like a 3 minute free private lesson :D

The evening dancing to be purely for you to chill out and have a good dance with your equals, and maybe practise you new skills with the teachers or partners


Unfortunately, the recent spate of Cambers and all the debate that followed it suggests that they may very well react like that. :(
:tears: yes that could happen, but as I am not hoping to make money out of it, I am quite happy to let them do it. However, if they followed my rules of who and what, financially the dancers will be the loosers :(


although a minute doesn't really seem enough to get a true idea of someone's level
For the experts I am thinking of, a minute will be enough

[ChrisA]

although a minute doesn't really seem enough to get a true idea of someone's level

It's easily long enough, in my view. Ten seconds is usually more than long enough to get a pretty reasonable idea.



The main reason I would be regretful at being excluded from an 'advanced' event is that I would love to *watch* - I do learn from watching better dancers and enjoy doing so.
It's only the advanced lessons that anyone should be excluded from...

.. providing you didn't want to actually dance with the advanced dancers during the freestyle...

:devil: :devil: :devil:

Or is that a different thread?

:devil:

[Minnie M]

The main reason I would be regretful at being excluded from an 'advanced' event is that I would love to *watch* - I do learn from watching better dancers and enjoy doing so.
Another idea ..... thanks .... will have to have a video of the event :flower:

Just noticed we have a 'silly idea' voter, is that because there is no Blues Expert listed :whistle:

Seriously though, could you please explain why you think it is a silly idea, these sort of comments are as important as the positive ones :flower:

[LMC]

It's only the advanced lessons that anyone should be excluded from...

.. providing you didn't want to actually dance with the advanced dancers during the freestyle...

:devil: :devil: :devil:

Or is that a different thread?

:devil:
*(wo)manfully ignores :devil:s *

I thought the whole point was for the grown up dancers to be able to enjoy dancing with their peers and have a break from those of us who can't spot breaks in advance or have other obnoxious habits...

Which actually seems fair enough to me.

[Minnie M]

*(wo)manfully ignores :devil:s *

I thought the whole point was for the grown up dancers to be able to enjoy dancing with their peers and have a break from those of us who can't spot breaks in advance or have other obnoxious habits...

Which actually seems fair enough to me.
No NO NO ......
That is Not the point of this weekend :mad:
It has nothing to do with that, it is to do with the more experienced dancer getting some benifit from a weekend designed around them :angry:

[LMC]

Sorry Minnie, I was being flippant, I know that was not your intention :flower:

But you did suggest that it should be an invitation only event. Which, as I have said, seems utterly fair to me. All other sports have leagues, MJ is so inclusive because it doesn't. For advanced dancers to have the same opportunity for learning as beginners/new intermediates, you would necessarily have to 'exclude' beginners/new intermediates from holding things up. For one weekend. Not forever. And why not? - I'm totally with Chicklet on this one.

[Paul F]

If the class was entirely non-rotating, then fair enough, since if you have a partner then you can sink or swim without affecting others.

... :yeah:

If only... :(


I think this could be a possible solution to part of the problem.

I would class this sort of weekend, as mentioned, more as a learning opportunity rather than a social thing like most weekenders. Im not saying you cannot socialise but if you advise entrants to do fixed partners in the workshops then each person knows that they will be dancing with someone who is both 'advanced' and comfortable.

[Minnie M]

have blanked out this post as I think I have said enough :(

[Minnie M]

I am getting upset defending what I thought was a good idea

It is aimed for the minority - the experienced/advance dancers - and at this stage it is only an idea - thanks for all the very good suggestions via PMs too :hug:

Why can't the more experience dancer have a weekend designed around them without other people trying to justify it or condemning it :mad:

More constructive comments please :flower:

[ChrisA]

Why can't the more experience dancer have a weekend designed around them without other people trying to justify it or condemning it :mad:
Because people find it easier to complain about elitism than become better dancers.

Having said that I think much of the comment here has been broadly constructive. Even Clive saying that he doesn't like it is fair enough - you don't have to agree with him, just string him up by his toenails if he tries to scupper the plan.... ;)

[Clive Long]

I am getting upset defending what I thought was a good idea

It is aimed for the minority - the experienced/advance dancers - and at this stage it is only an idea - thanks for all the very good suggestions via PMs too :hug:

Why can't the more experience dancer have a weekend designed around them without other people trying to justify it or condemning it :mad:

More constructive comments please :flower:
This is spooky!

You must have been reading my mind Minnie.

Your event - you organise it anyway you want - for the benefit of who you want.

I am grateful for the events you organised - and I haven't organised any event - so that says a lot.

A little story. I just went back to tennis after a loooong time. I wasn't hopeless but my serve was poor and I produced 3 double-fault services. To compensate I hit some corking top-spin forehands. After the game the guy pointed out my double-faults (as if I didn't know :rolleyes: )
His message? Their game was affected / spoiled by some basic error on my part - but he came up with a constructive suggestion. I didn't take it that he was trying to belittle me - even if he was - because I took something constructive from what he said. My point is (there is one) - I can understand that the presence of someone of my standard of dancing or poorer at the weekend proposed by Minnie would be to the detriment of others on the course. So I shouldn't be there.

I thought Ducasi's "diplomatic" words - when a teacher knows the applicant is too weak for a dance course - were spot on. You offfer them a more appropriate alternative.

I stand by my first post. My second was pretty offensive.

Clive

Edit: ChrisA: "Even Clive saying that he doesn't like it is fair enough ". You make me sound like a zealot young man. I didn't say (I don't think I said) I didn't like the idea of the course - I thought it was positive - nowhere did I mention elitism - my only beef was with the "invitation only" dimension. Probably says more about me than the proposal. You and I agree there must be some way to define the standard so those who benefit from the event intend, and those who wouldn't, don't. But as I have written above, Minnie's event, her criteria,

P.P.S. Can you string me up by my fingernails anyway? Niiiiiice :devil:

[ducasi]

Why can't the more experience dancer have a weekend designed around them without other people trying to justify it or condemning it :mad:

More constructive comments please :flower: As someone who definitely falls outside anybody's definition of "advanced" or "experienced", I didn't feel it was appropriate for me to give much comment...

But, like many others I think how you choose who to invite on this workshop is going to leave some people hurt, wondering why they were left out.

Perhaps one solution would be to open it to anyone, but ask them to supply a letter of recommendation if they are not already well-known in the MJ world.

I can think of some down-sides to this idea, but at least no-one could say "why wasn't I invited? :tears:"

[stewart38]

Was going to say silly idea but read the thread all the way though and can see it has a lot of merits

You can as a man usually tell how good someone is in 15/20 seconds

[ChrisA]

Edit: ChrisA: "Even Clive saying that he doesn't like it is fair enough ". You make me sound like a zealot young man.

I was actually defending you - it was in the context of Minnie asking for constructive comments, and I meant that, even you saying you didn't like it (ie the invitation only thing) was a constructive comment.



I didn't say I didn't like the idea of the course - I thought it was positive - nowhere did I mention elitism - my only beef was with the "invitation only" dimension.

Absolutely - always best to know what one's disagreeing about :D

I think invitation only is fair enough; in the absence of an objective measure such as medals and stuff, which I'm sure we don't want in MJ, any assessment is bound to be subjective to a degree, and will upset some.

But like Chicklet said, we don't all have to have the same carton of orange juice :)

[Clive Long]

Was going to say silly idea but read the thread all the way though and can see it has a lot of merits

You can as a man usually tell how good someone is in 15/20 seconds
I like to take a little longer ... but I'm not as quick a worker as you Stewart :devil:

[Minnie M]

Maybe we could get Ann Robinson to abuse them before they left

or get Davina whats-her-name to shoot them on live TV with a humane killer. Think of the ratings !

Do you get the impressionI don't like this idea?

I will shut up now

Clive
I thought this post had been deleted :confused:

Anyway, yes a little bit OTT Clive - however, your previous posts do have constructive critism of which I did ask for and do appreciate

For your sins U.O.Me - 5 yes FIVE dances in one evening :devil:

[Minnie M]

Just looked at the voting results - and with the expection of Blues Dancer, who I don't know and doesn't want to post his reasons for the 'silly option' vote - all the others who have voted are indeed experienced dancers, so with this in mind, maybe the 'invite' thing does not have to happen, I should be able to trust people :cool:

[ChrisA]

all the others who have voted are indeed experienced dancers, so with this in mind, maybe the 'invite' thing does not have to happen, I should be able to trust people :cool:
If you advertised it only here on the forum, then possibly so.

But bear in mind the fact that, as is often said, this forum is very unrepresentative of modern jivers in general.

And there are only 22 votes here, out of upwards of 1000 members. So it's not really representative even of the forum.

So a little caution, maybe, interpreting the vote.

[spindr]

Been thinking a bit about this for a while :)

For example, I think there's no point inviting an expert Salsa teacher to do a taster class for "advanced" MJ dancers -- in some sense it's overkill. Unless, the attendees are all advanced Salsa dancers -- which means they could more easily go to a Salsa event. Repeat for all other styles.

However, I think it would be interesting to turn the idea around and recast the event as say
"A lead and follow event -- for a variety of dances" (or musicality, styling, etc., etc.).
Then, rather than having the expert Salsa teacher teach a taster class -- they teach something at a reasonable level, so that they explain the "advanced" concepts of lead and follow -- from a Salsa viewpoint. Repeat for all other styles.

----

One thought might be to make the event self selecting in some sense -- perhaps make it a workshop where all "delegates" have to present a showcase, or teach what they regard as an advanced "lead and follow" technique to everyone else. Hopefully, if you don't have something "advanced" to present -- you might realise that the event's not for you?

Maybe one should be asked to present references :)

Anyway, enough rambling.

SpinDr

P.S. If there's an advanced class in "mucking about" then I'd definitely be interested :)

[bigdjiver]

Learn a little practise a lot.

Why not get an advanced invitational group together at, or near, an established venue, pick a track, 2/3 couples dance to it at a time, everybody analyses the differences, moves, style points etc, and everybody learns from each other. When enough is enough all adjourn to the pub, or join the local venue. Move the venue around from week to week. Seems simple, cheap, and effective to me, and a lot easier to organise that a weekender.

[Minnie M]

..... think it would be interesting to turn the idea around and recast the event as say
"A lead and follow event -- for a variety of dances" (or musicality, styling, etc., etc.).
Then, rather than having the expert Salsa teacher teach a taster class -- they teach something at a reasonable level, so that they explain the "advanced" concepts of lead and follow -- from a Salsa viewpoint. Repeat for all other styles.

Goody goody .... I like this idea, especially as the majority of voters have picked the styling category :yeah:


..... make the event self selecting .
another good idea :cheers: It will take about a year to get it all together, booking hotel / teachers etc., plenty of time to get the dancers together, therefore 'self selecting' is definitely an option :clap:

Thanks spindr :hug:

[stewart38]

I like to take a little longer ... but I'm not as quick a worker as you Stewart :devil:

Im not talking about grading someone between 1 to 100 but i would have thought 15/20 seconds of dancing with someone and you should know if its their first time etc

[Clive Long]

Im not talking about grading someone between 1 to 100 but i would have thought 15/20 seconds of dancing with someone and you should know if its their first time etc
I prefer my interpretation :whistle:

"Grading someone" - interesting idea. Turning it on its head (today's favourite phrase) I did on a couple of occassions think of handing out feed-back and comment cards. :wink:

The poster formerly known as ....

[Feelingpink]

...

P.S. If there's an advanced class in "mucking about" then I'd definitely be interested :)I can imagine! You, Marc and Dave Hancock could run it. :what:

[Heather]

I can imagine! You, Marc and Dave Hancock could run it. :what:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:hug:
Heather,
xx

[Lory]

I can imagine! You, Marc and Dave Hancock could run it. :what:
:yeah:
Put me down for that workshop! :na:

That's if i pass my 15sec audition with Stewart38 of course! :wink: :rofl:

[LMC]

P.S. If there's an advanced class in "mucking about" then I'd definitely be interested :)
Now THAT'S one I feel I could contribute to...

*resolves to practise, practise practise so can appear to be good for 15 sec*

[Mary]

I rather like Minnie's idea. I see it as a bit like having a private lesson for a few couples but on a larger scale.

I have had the odd private lesson for 1, 2 and 3 couples. Where other couples were involved, for what was being taught, I felt we were of a similar standard, which meant we were able to get maximum benefit from the lesson, as I feel there can be more feedback/help/co-operation with the other couples, and learn from points made to the other dancers as well as points made to oneself.

The invitation thing would always upset some people - same as hearing about a party someone is having and wondereing why you weren't invited. Personally, I don't normally have a problem with this - there is usually a valid reason.

M

[CeeCee]

Minnie, why not just stick to your ideas and go for it.
Organise it the way you want to organise it.
Invite whoever you want to invite.
Have the teachers you want to have.
Live with the decision.

There are many opinions on this Forum some of which are valuable but we all know that you are never going to please all of the people all of the time.

Just go for it and we will find out how it went either from the inside or the outside.

(good luck!!!)

p.s. camping in the North of England in February will keep the cost and the numbers down!

[DavidY]

p.s. camping in the North of England in February will keep the cost and the numbers down!Hmmm - not too far for both us Midlands folk and all those lovely Scots dancers :drool: . I'd be up for that. :wink:

[Minnie M]

Thank you everyone for your input (including PMs) - now I have to put my ideas on paper and try and cost it.

Also, I need to make sure I will not be upsetting local organisers - I have always had a good relationship with MJ organisers and certainly don't want to jeopardise that.

[jivecat]

I noticed that at the the beginning of the Southport booklet last week there was a plea that dancers should attend workshops at an appropriate level in order to be fair to themselves and to other class participants. I assumed that perhaps there had been complaints about beginners attempting classes that were much too hard for them. Did it make any perceptible difference? - I didn't attend any of the advanced classes so I don't know.

[Rachel]

Oooh, I seem to have gone into a lunchbreak posting frenzy…

Minnie, I totally agree with CeeCee. This is your dream – organise it exactly the way you want. It's not a public weekender - why shouldn't it be organised as if it were a private party? There will be more than enough people to give you and the whole event all the support you need.

I've voted on the poll, but should explain … the only reason I would choose a Sat/Sun option, rather than long weekender, is difficulties getting off work. In an ideal world, of course, a whole week's event would be more like it! But, having said that, a Friday night start would be great.

Also, to keep costs down, I would be happy with no teachers at all. I think you can learn sooo much from watching experienced dancers and dancing with them. Pure unadulterated freestyle for a whole weekend would be wonderful.

But – another but – if there were to be teachers, I'd go for tango, WCS and definitely styling classes.

Or - actually the more I think about this, the more silly it seems or, at least, unfair on the teachers! - but idealistically ... If there were enough (charitable!) teachers there anyway, no formal workshops but 30-min slots during the day when you could book up a private or semi-private lesson with the teacher of your choice (room/time allowing). I've never been able to justify the money for private lessons, so a chance to have a perhaps-not-too-expensive 30 minutes with Amir, David & Lily, or Jordan & Tatiana would be heaven!

Rachel

[Gladrags]

Because people find it easier to complain about elitism than become better dancers.

I tend to agree with this. In my opinion, it seems that for some people, this kind of thread, can lead to a display of ones own dancing insecurities. Its good to make you think whether you'd be invited (or not). If dancing skill is important to you, then any kind of reflection (whether forced or not) can only be healthy.

I'm not sure I completely agree that this would be elitism however. Elitism would be deciding on the best, making that exclusive, and purely developing those people on a longer timescale (thus a gulf developing). Whilst this may be considered the case for the 1st weekender of this type, there is no implication that those invited would (or should) be identical for subsequent events.

Raise the bar, why not, and this would lead to aspiring dancers raising their game if they want to be involved. And this can only be good for everyone.

[El Salsero Gringo]

...there is no implication that those invited would (or should) be identical for subsequent events.everyone.What would it mean if you were invited to the first, but not the second or the third?

[Gladrags]

What would it mean if you were invited to the first, but not the second or the third?

Take your point ESG, its a tricky one, wouldn't like to tell those who are "Dropped". My guess would be there would be a certain amount of natural "fall off" (those who didn't like the first, can't make the 2nd etc...) but that wouldn't be enough to encompass the new aspirers. Of course you could increase numbers, but that can tend to lead to dilution?

Is the number of advanced jivers always increasing, or does it tend to a limit due to moving to other dance styles (or giving up)?

[alex]

What would it mean if you were invited to the first, but not the second or the third?
You were as good as you think you are, but no longer are as good as you thought you were. :confused: :confused:

[jockey]

This is a good idea but fraught with "social and political" problems.
The good part is that one could actually take part in an advanced class and guarantee an advanced partner. Or would the really advanced advanced take part as fixed couples..
The bad part is the elitist angle of being selected as advanced.
This would lead to wounded pride in the nonselected and conceit in the selected, perhaps.
This in turn would render the selector (selecter?) open to charges of playing God..
In any case, it could be argued, there are "advanced" classes already available at all workshops, which solves all the social and political problems outlined above by having voluntary selection. (The only problem with these is that they are full of intermediates as the advanced dancers are preening themselves somewhere or chatting about "comps" etc :devil: )

[David Bailey]

Minnie, why not just stick to your ideas and go for it.
Organise it the way you want to organise it.
Invite whoever you want to invite.
Have the teachers you want to have.
Live with the decision.
After reading the multitude of opinions already, I can only say :yeah:

Minnie, you at least have the advantage of everyone knowing that you don't have an elitist or malicious bone in your body, so you'll get a lot of support however you decide to organise it(do I get an invite now :devil: )

But yes, you'll also get a lot of flak; that's the price for doing something innovative and creative, there'll always be more critics than helpers.

Good luck.

[Blues Dancer]

Why do I think that this is a 'silly idea'?

Because I think that it will further create a division between us (normal, social dancers who do it for fun), and them (the advanced people).

Not because I won't get an invite to go along (which I won't). But because the advanced people will go on this weekend, and then, due to time/money constraints, will (I imagine) not go to the other weekends. And IMHO, this will detract from the Cambers, and the Southports etc.

It happened some years ago. There used to be a nice crowd of what I saw as advanced dancers (I don't know names) who used to go to the Camber weekend, and they'd always be found downstairs in the swing/blues room, dancing and entertaining until the end. Then Rockbottoms started up, and all of a sudden, that a lot of crowd of people no longer went to Camber (I gather that in some cases, there were other reasons too - involving payment, but I'm not really party to those). All I saw was a marked decrease in stardard on the Camber weekend.

So, I just feel that having such a weekend would have a detrimental effect on the current weekend events - take a lot of the advanced dancers away from these events, and a lot of other people wouldn't go, as they wouldn't get their opportunity to dance with, or just watch those dancers. And I think that would be a shame.

[Blues Dancer]

Just for the record. I don't necessarily think that it's a 'silly idea' (hence the '). But there was no other option in the poll to say that I don't think that it should happen (for the above reasons).

[David Bailey]

I think that it will further create a division between us (normal, social dancers who do it for fun), and them (the advanced people).
I'm normally a rabid democrat on this issue.

But even I don't think that'll happen with this, simply because it's going to be specifically marketed as an advanced weekender. It's like saying "don't run a WCS / Blues / Latin weekender, that'll create a gap between MJ and WCS / Blues / Latin". Any gap that exists, I doubt one weekender will make much difference.

I agree with Minnie, I think there's a market for this type of learning event. For example, I did the Adanced Latin Jive routine at Southport (which, ahem, was exactly the same as the non-Advanced Latin Jive routine at Camber...). It didn't seem that advanced to me, and I'd have liked to have been stretched a bit.

(Again, not pre-supposing worthiness to be invited, but I can see why people want to stretch themselves).


Not because I won't get an invite to go along (which I won't). But because the advanced people will go on this weekend, and then, due to time/money constraints, will (I imagine) not go to the other weekends. And IMHO, this will detract from the Cambers, and the Southports etc.
Again, you could say that about any new weekender - but it turns out it's the opposite. Good weekenders seem to encourage more good weekenders - that's competition for you.

I see Minnie's suggestion as primarily learning-based rather than social anyway - or more learning-based than other weekenders. Call it a really long workshop if you want :)


It happened some years ago. There used to be a nice crowd of what I saw as advanced dancers (I don't know names) who used to go to the Camber weekend, and they'd always be found downstairs in the swing/blues room, dancing and entertaining until the end. Then Rockbottoms started up, and all of a sudden, that a lot of crowd of people no longer went to Camber (I gather that in some cases, there were other reasons too - involving payment, but I'm not really party to those). All I saw was a marked decrease in stardard on the Camber weekend.
It's The Ten!! I knew they existed...

[Minnie M]

Why do I think that this is a 'silly idea'?

Because I think that it will further create a division between us (normal, social dancers who do it for fun), and them (the advanced people).

Not because I won't get an invite to go along (which I won't). But because the advanced people will go on this weekend, and then, due to time/money constraints, will (I imagine) not go to the other weekends. And IMHO, this will detract from the Cambers, and the Southports etc.

It happened some years ago. There used to be a nice crowd of what I saw as advanced dancers (I don't know names) who used to go to the Camber weekend, and they'd always be found downstairs in the swing/blues room, dancing and entertaining until the end. Then Rockbottoms started up, and all of a sudden, that a lot of crowd of people no longer went to Camber (I gather that in some cases, there were other reasons too - involving payment, but I'm not really party to those). All I saw was a marked decrease in stardard on the Camber weekend.

So, I just feel that having such a weekend would have a detrimental effect on the current weekend events - take a lot of the advanced dancers away from these events, and a lot of other people wouldn't go, as they wouldn't get their opportunity to dance with, or just watch those dancers. And I think that would be a shame.

Thank you replying Blues Dancer, I appreciate all comments it will help to make my decision whether to go ahead with it or not.

[Gojive]

Lynda, if you do decide to go ahead with this idea, I'd like to offer my help (work permitting) :)

[Minnie M]

Lynda, if you do decide to go ahead with this idea, I'd like to offer my help (work permitting) :)

Gosh, thank you Iain :hug: :kiss: :flower:
You are the 2nd person who has offered help - this is all very encouraging :hug:

[stewart38]

Why do I think that this is a 'silly idea'?

Because I think that it will further create a division between us (normal, social dancers who do it for fun), and them (the advanced people).

Not because I won't get an invite to go along (which I won't). But because the advanced people will go on this weekend, and then, due to time/money constraints, will (I imagine) not go to the other weekends. And IMHO, this will detract from the Cambers, and the Southports etc.

It happened some years ago. There used to be a nice crowd of what I saw as advanced dancers (I don't know names) who used to go to the Camber weekend, and they'd always be found downstairs in the swing/blues room, dancing and entertaining until the end. Then Rockbottoms started up, and all of a sudden, that a lot of crowd of people no longer went to Camber (I gather that in some cases, there were other reasons too - involving payment, but I'm not really party to those). All I saw was a marked decrease in stardard on the Camber weekend.

So, I just feel that having such a weekend would have a detrimental effect on the current weekend events - take a lot of the advanced dancers away from these events, and a lot of other people wouldn't go, as they wouldn't get their opportunity to dance with, or just watch those dancers. And I think that would be a shame.

Dont think the standard at Camber has changed at all over the years

I think if its treated almost like a private party and there isnt a 500 page thread about it or its shouted from the roof tops it sounds like a great idea

I went to a ceroc party of 100+ and I bet there want anyone there who had danced less then 6 months

[Gadget]

I like the idea of a 'paralell thinking' workshop/event; where ideas and inspiation from all over the place could be taught and learned amoung those who want it.

I really disslike the idea that you advertise it, gain ideas for it and generally put it up for public debate, then pick who you want to attend it. If you are going to have a party or private event with invites and hired in teachers, go for it. But why ask those you have no intention of inviting what they would like to see?

I think that you could put out invites to a specific few (perhaps half), but the rest should be open: just because you don't know them does not make them unworthy of selection.
If the idea behind it is to gather the top tallent, and 'poorer' dancers will slow the classes or prevent others from learning, then simply instruct the teachers not to 'dumb down' for the class and have a couple of rows for fixed partners and a couple for rotation. If you make it well known in advance what is going to be taught, at what level, and by who; then people have nothing to complain about if things go too fast.

I have for years advocated a 'get-together' type workshop, where it's an open floor of everyone helping everyone else. I went to a workshop in Perth that came close, but not close enough.
How about an 'open mike' night? 1 song's worth of dancing, then about 10-30min of two way instruction; "how did you do that?" "that was smooth, but didn't flow well into..." Would only work for a small group of upto about 10 couples.
Or a recording of the Friday night's freestyle dance floor, then a disecting/instruction of some of the dancing seen.

I think that an event like this should be open to all, but only on the understanding that everyone's dancing will be criticised; If you can't take external criticism of your dancing (in front of other dancers), then don't attend.

[Minnie M]

I think that an event like this should be open to all, but only on the understanding that everyone's dancing will be criticised; If you can't take external criticism of your dancing (in front of other dancers), then don't attend.
Excellent point - thank you Gadget (in fact the whole post is great)

I assume those who have voted would like to be part of such an idea, therefore it would only be fair to give them first refusal, and as you say I have made it quite clear the standard will be high, therefore if they feel they can cope, why not :clap:

[bigdjiver]

...I have for years advocated a 'get-together' type workshop, where it's an open floor of everyone helping everyone else. I went to a workshop in Perth that came close, but not close enough.
How about an 'open mike' night? 1 song's worth of dancing, then about 10-30min of two way instruction; "how did you do that?" "that was smooth, but didn't flow well into..." Would only work for a small group of upto about 10 couples.
Or a recording of the Friday night's freestyle dance floor, then a disecting/instruction of some of the dancing seen.

I think that an event like this should be open to all, but only on the understanding that everyone's dancing will be criticised; If you can't take external criticism of your dancing (in front of other dancers), then don't attend.One of the programming methods that I have not had the opportunity of experiencing, but would have loved to, is "Peer group review." From this approach. avoid :

criticism
Too many people
Too many reviews
Too long a session
Allowing the event to degenerate into negativity, bitching, arguing, cleverness demonstrations, competitions or axe-grinding.

Contributions should be along the lines of "You appeared to do this, I would have done it this way, because ...". A good, non-sidetaking moderator (class leader)who decides who gets the floor, and for how long, is a good idea.

[El Salsero Gringo]

How about an 'open mike' night? 1 song's worth of dancing, then about 10-30min of two way instruction; "how did you do that?" "that was smooth, but didn't flow well into..." Would only work for a small group of upto about 10 couples.I'd be very keen to try this at a weekend, or of an evening. Anyone in London interested? Drop me a PM, I'll sort a venue. We could do some videoing as well.

[jockey]

Yes that would be the difficult bit, I thinking of may be dancing for one year plus minimum and then I suppose you just have to trust people to be honest about their ability.

The invitation bit, could cause bad feeling - I was hoping some forumites would come up with ideas
Semi finalist in any UK Open Championship minimum entry qualification?
(It does take the onus away from you and onto the dancers..)

[Gadget]

...and makes it only open to those dancers who want to/like to compete: is this the sole judgement of how good/worthy a dancer is? :rolleyes: :sigh:

[David Bailey]

Semi finalist in any UK Open Championship minimum entry qualification?
(It does take the onus away from you and onto the dancers..)

Grrr, competitions, grrr... [insert your favourite DJ anti-comp rant here]


...and makes it only open to those dancers who want to/like to compete: is this the sole judgement of how good/worthy a dancer is? :rolleyes: :sigh:
Apparently it is.

MJ seems to be getting more and more "competition-obsessed"; MsFab's comment about continually being asked whether she "placed" or "won" in any competitions in Oz was profoundly depressing. And MsFab is a great dancer (apologies for wet T-shirt last night and thanks for telling me :) ) - she certainly shouldn't have to compete to be "accepted". Grrr 2.

And more and more workshops seem to be appearing giving "competition secrets" classes - one was advertised for next weeks' BritRoc. Taught by Nina, who will also be one of the judges (is it just me, or does that seem a little strange to anyone?)

Having said that, I'd trust Minnie's judgement over any silly competitions any day. :flower:

[Lynn]

MJ seems to be getting more and more "competition-obsessed"; Maybe this is partly because competitions give people the challenge they need to aim for a better standard of dancing? It pushes them on that little bit more.

And maybe an 'advance weekender' like Minnie is suggesting could also do that to some extent? Especially for those who want to improve, like the idea of having a target to aim for or a specific event to focus that improvement, but who don't want to compete.

(BTW haven't voted on this thread simply because I'm well aware I'm not anywhere near 'advanced' enough.)

[Gadget]

Maybe this is partly because competitions give people the challenge they need to aim for a better standard of dancing? It pushes them on that little bit more.
Some people. Yes.
Most people. I doubt.
How many people dance MJ? What are the entry numbers for competitions like?

I have no doubt that practice for a competition improves a dancer. But it's the practice that makes that improvement: not the competition. Most people{*} go to weekenders, workshops, lessons, etc. with the aim of improving their dancing: not with the aim of winning competitions.

It has been said before: competition dancing is different from social dancing. Competative dancers are generally good social dancers because of their practice. However: Just because this is the path they have taken to become good dancers does not mean that it's the only path.

{* assumption based on the people I have attended workshops etc with - unless of course the event is targeted at "competition dancing".}

[El Salsero Gringo]

Now that Minnie's issued invites to her top 200, who's actually going?

[foxylady]

Now that Minnie's issued invites to her top 200, who's actually going?
(yes, I'm joking. At least, I think there's humour in there somewhere.)


Boy! you are wicked .:devil: .......

[stewart38]

Now that Minnie's issued invites to her top 200, who's actually going?
(yes, I'm joking. At least, I think there's humour in there somewhere.)


I havent checked the post today :nice:

[El Salsero Gringo]

Boy! you are wicked .:devil: ..........and *you* are a spoilsport.

[David Bailey]

Now that Minnie's issued invites to her top 200, who's actually going?
You mean you only got the plebby top 200 invite, and not the gold-embossed "ultra-top-dancers-only top 10" invite?

Never mind... :hug:

[Clive Long]

I hope that Minnie's event is a great success and enjoyed by all who attend.

Clive

[Lory]

I hope that Minnie's event is a great success and enjoyed by all who attend.


Crawler! :whistle:

[Paul F]

Crawler! :whistle:

Thats a terrible thing to say Lory . Shame on you :devil:

Minnie is far too intelligent, sharp minded, considerate and generous to be fooled by such a post.
Not to mention being such a great dancer and lovely person.

:)

BTW, just to update you all our stocks of "I love Minnie" t-shirts are low. Delays possible.

[Kev F]

I hope that Minnie's event is a great success and enjoyed by all who attend.

Clive

The principle of a weekender that we actually learn something refreshing and new, to add to our repertoire, fills me with excitement.

A weekender where we are not so tired we can't make the classes. A real learning experience, to help us rise above this plateaux which we all too quickly reach, would be fab. :flower:

I don't know how you decide the best level to teach in the non-MJ dances (if taught at all) but I think you my considerations on your weekender are the following:

1. You can keep some of the people happy some of the time, but you'll never keep all the people happy all the time.
2. But make it the weekender you wish it to be whilst considering all input from this thread.
3. A fewer high quality classes would be my preference although it is a shame to think that there may not enough top teachers in this country to suffice :sad:
4. Don't take any notice of hecklers and make it happen :D

Best of luck and success with the project..... and I may know of a fantastic tango teacher/s if you were looking.

Kev

[Minnie M]

Now that Minnie's issued invites to her top 200, who's actually going?
cheeky boy :rolleyes:

I haven't even costed it yet - however have decided not to have personal invites as it would cause bad feelings and I really do hate upsetting people........... so ........... after I have costed the hotel, top international teacher, DJs etc., I will let everyone know what the cost would be based on 200 people and will take it from there.
I have been told the teacher alone could cost up to £3000 :eek

I think I will have to leave it open to trust and hope we don't have too many who think they are advanced but are not :innocent:

As far as the teaching is concerned, according to the poll, it has to be "Styling & Musicality Workshops " however, I hope to get one of the top West Coast Swing teachers so we could have some WCS too :worthy: so you can get some 'privates' in as well.

Looks like it will be just the Saturday and Sunday, so that will cut down the costs :clap:

All forumites that wish to attend, will have priority bookings


I hope that Minnie's event is a great success and enjoyed by all who attend.
:flower: :hug: :kiss: :flower:


Minnie is far too intelligent, sharp minded, considerate and generous to be fooled by such a post. Not to mention being such a great dancer and lovely person
:flower: :hug: :kiss: :flower:


BTW, just to update you all our stocks of "I love Minnie" t-shirts are low. Delays possible.:rofl: :rofl:

[alex]

theres one major problem with this whole idea. you would need to find a venue with a big enough stage for all the advanced dancers to congregate around. all the rest of the floor would be empty. :devil: :devil:

alex

[Minnie M]

theres one major problem with this whole idea. you would need to find a venue with a big enough stage for all the advanced dancers to congregate around. all the rest of the floor would be empty. :devil: :devil:

alex

:rofl: :rofl: thanks Alex :rofl: needed that :rofl: :rofl:

[jockey]

Grrr, competitions, grrr... [insert your favourite DJ anti-comp rant here]


Apparently it is.

MJ seems to be getting more and more "competition-obsessed"; MsFab's comment about continually being asked whether she "placed" or "won" in any competitions in Oz was profoundly depressing. And MsFab is a great dancer (apologies for wet T-shirt last night and thanks for telling me :) ) - she certainly shouldn't have to compete to be "accepted". Grrr 2.

And more and more workshops seem to be appearing giving "competition secrets" classes - one was advertised for next weeks' BritRoc. Taught by Nina, who will also be one of the judges (is it just me, or does that seem a little strange to anyone?)

Having said that, I'd trust Minnie's judgement over any silly competitions any day. :flower:
I agree that there would be candidates excluded by this criterion.
How about a second entry qualification : sponsorship ( " I recommend such and such, Minnie, cos he/she is dead good...")
Both get Minnie out of the "playing God" problem..and the second placates the anti-competition lobby.:yeah:

[El Salsero Gringo]

How about a second entry qualification : sponsorship ( " I recommend such and such, Minnie, cos he/she is dead good...")
Both get Minnie out of the "playing God" problem..and the second placates the anti-competition lobby.:yeah:Ok then: who's eligible to sponsor someone?

[Minnie M]

I think I will have to leave it open to trust and hope we don't have too many who think they are advanced but are not :innocent:
I know I do it too sometimes, but please read the posts before commenting :rolleyes:

Invitations & sponserships etc etc would cause bad feeling, it has been said over and over again in this thread.

Just for the record, I have no intention of making it a regular thing, if it turned out to be a sucess, I will leave it to the professionals to fill the demand.