Expectation on Teachers

[TiggsTours]

I wanted to start a poll, in relation to a subject raised on another thread.

Should teachers be expected to spend some of the freestyle time dancing with beginners in freestyle, and should they give feedback?

I believe that a teacher (of anything) should spend some individual time with their students, as well as running an actual class. Having spent a few years training in IT, I was often staying behind after a training session to answer questions, and to help those who were struggling, and a "test" was always a fundamental part of the lesson, to see how the understanding was at the end of the class. We also always used to handout a feedback form, to have our own teaching analysed by the students.

Afterall, if someone hasn't really got it at the end of the class, you haven't really acheived the objective of your lesson, so why shouldn't you be expected to put a bit more in. I don't see why Ceroc (or similar) should expect any less of their own teachers. And the only people who can really say how successful a class was, are the students.

[El Salsero Gringo]

It's definitely the Ceroc teacher's role to turn the evening from 'just' dance class into an evening's entertainment, which includes 'working the room' afterwards. That's not just limited to dancing with beginners though, it includes dancing with and chatting to people of all standards.

Feedback is tricky, unless people ask for it. Sometimes it's nice to dance with a teacher without feeling like you are (or might be) under examination for something.

[TiggsTours]

It's definitely the Ceroc teacher's role to turn the evening from 'just' dance class into an evening's entertainment, which includes 'working the room' afterwards. That's not just limited to dancing with beginners though, it includes dancing with and chatting to people of all standards.

Feedback is tricky, unless people ask for it. Sometimes it's nice to dance with a teacher without feeling like you are (or might be) under examination for something.
Positive feedback is just as, if not even more, important! Just a "you're doing really well, I can't believe this is only your 3rd week" is feedback, constructive criticism like, "wow, that was great, if you could just ease back a bit on the grip, I'm sure you'll find it far more comfortable" is good too. Its a case of making the "feedback" sound like chitchat, rather than the being the whole reason you asked for the dance.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Positive feedback is just as, if not even more, important! Just a "you're doing really well, I can't believe this is only your 3rd week" is feedback, constructive criticism like, "wow, that was great, if you could just ease back a bit on the grip, I'm sure you'll find it far more comfortable" is good too. Its a case of making the "feedback" sound like chitchat, rather than the being the whole reason you asked for the dance.Hmmmm.... no, I think teachers should, for the most part, just dance.

[Andy McGregor]

Feedback is tricky, unless people ask for it. Sometimes it's nice to dance with a teacher without feeling like you are (or might be) under examination for something.IMHO you are failing as a teacher if you let your students get something wrong without correcting them. When you dance with your students you have a golden opportunity to coach them on a one-to-one basis. Speaking personally, when I dance with my students I pick a single thing they could improve and give them tips related to that one thing: to do more might make them feel demoralised - but to do less would, IMHO, mean you fail as a dance teacher. Of course, I balance my coaching with plenty of praise for the things my students get right :clap:

My own opinion is that the failing of many dance classes is that they do not give individual feedback. I believe that showing people how to do it from the front of the room and asking people to copy you is only half the job: you also need to be sure they're copying you properly. Just think how dangerous the roads would be if driving instructors taught people to drive by showing them what to do and never corrected their mistakes. Maybe that's what explains the many collisions at some dance classes - although that could be caused by the reduction in visibility due to cigarette smoke :sick:

People have come to a dance class, they're there to learn. They'll do far better with a bit of one-to-one. My advice is that if you don't want to learn don't go to a class, stick to freestyles.

[TiggsTours]

People have come to a dance class, they're there to learn. They'll do far better with a bit of one-to-one. My advice is that if you don't want to learn don't go to a class, stick to freestyles.
:yeah: And if you don't want to teach, stick to freestyle too!

[El Salsero Gringo]

IMHO you are failing as a teacher if you let your students get something wrong without correcting them.Well, I'm not a teacher, but I do taxi, and there are some parallels. It's much harder to let faults go than to correct them, but there are times when you have accept that even in the kindest most patient manner any kind of coaching is going to be unwelcome.
When you dance with your students you have a golden opportunity to coach them on a one-to-one basis.But I'm sure you also have the wisdom to realise that there are times when that opportunity should be allowed to go by unused.


People have come to a dance class, they're there to learn.Well, no actually. They could be there for all sorts of reasons.
They'll do far better with a bit of one-to-one. My advice is that if you don't want to learn don't go to a class, stick to freestyles.You don't think anyone should come to the after-class freestyle just to dance?

[David Bailey]

IMHO you are failing as a teacher if you let your students get something wrong without correcting them. When you dance with your students you have a golden opportunity to coach them on a one-to-one basis.
I'd agree. Talking whilst dancing is not much fun, and as a teacher you're naturally entitled to feel like you want some "me time" to relax dance. But you're not paid as a teacher to enjoy yourself dancing, you're paid to teach. Now it's true that Ceroc teachers don't get paid much, but that's a different matter.

(Also, from a more selfish POV, this strikes me as an ideal opportunity to promote private classes, as "tasters". )

[CJ]

Now it's true that Ceroc teachers don't get paid much, but that's a different matter.


Yeah, but if they were consistent, and offered GREAT teaching, then maybe they'd get paid more!!!!!!!!!!! :wink:

:rofl:

[Asif]

Great points made by Tigg, El Salsero, Andy Mac and David J. This is one of those conversations that could go on for ever and someone would still have some new comments to make.

If you were to put it into pure black and white - the teachers "job" is to teach two classes, one for beginners and one for intermediates, etc. The taxi-dancers "job" is to a) keep beginners busy with a review class while the intermediate class is going on and also b) dance with the beginners during the freestyle and help them with their moves, confidence, etc. However, it's not pure black and white - there are grey areas all over the place.

A lot of the teachers i know are great teachers and they are very sociable after the lessons and know how to look after their venues. However, i am sure there are teachers out there who aren't like this - as soon as their lesson has finished, they just dance with a select few or even not at all!!

I do think that teachers should dance with more people. I don't think that teachers should feel obligated to dance with beginners BUT there is an expectation there and it can be such a confidence booster for any dancer to dance with a teacher or taxi-dancer (hopefully that will guarantee at least a couple of good dances for them that evening :rolleyes: ). It's all the more better when they are told something complimentary or given some positive feedback after their dance.

All feedback can be worded so that it is positive and it should be encouraged more. It doesn't have to be during the dance but just a few words when they've finished - BEFORE dashing off for their next dance. That way, they've had a nice dance, they've maybe even helped that person with something that they've been having a problem with for ages but didn't know how to ask, etc, etc.

I seemed to have gone off on a tangent - told you that this could go on for ages and ages and ages and ages and ........ :whistle:

Asif (will continue ranting if encouraged :wink: )

[David Bailey]

Yeah, but if they were consistent, and offered GREAT teaching, then maybe they'd get paid more!!!!!!!!!!! :wink:

:rofl:
Good point. I'm sure I'll mention that to all the cr&p Ceroc teachers I meet, over the next few weeks.

I'm sure they'll appreciate positive feedback, and take it in the spirit of constructive criticism in which it's intended.

Thanks...

[El Salsero Gringo]

If you were to put it into pure black and white - the teachers "job" is to teach two classes, one for beginners and one for intermediates, etc. No - really, I don't think you're right. The teacher's job is to make the evening, by teaching the classes *and* working the room. You can't separate the two parts; dancing, socialising, schmoozing is not an optional extra or a tagged-on bit. It's an essential part of the role.

[ChrisA]

The teacher's job is to make the evening, by teaching the classes *and* working the room. You can't separate the two parts; dancing, socialising, schmoozing is not an optional extra or a tagged-on bit. It's an essential part of the role.
Well you've expressed this opinion several times.

But who says?

[Asif]

No - really, I don't think you're right. The teacher's job is to make the evening, by teaching the classes *and* working the room. You can't separate the two parts; dancing, socialising, schmoozing is not an optional extra or a tagged-on bit. It's an essential part of the role.

The point i was trying to make it that some teachers DO actually think that all they are there for IS just to teach the lessons. I agree with you - it is an essential part of the role and i don't think this is communicated enough to some teachers!! Do you think then this should be the responsiblity of the venue managers to tell the teachers this?

[David Bailey]

No - really, I don't think you're right.
Hey, I like that way of disagreeing!


You can't separate the two parts; dancing, socialising, schmoozing is not an optional extra or a tagged-on bit. It's an essential part of the role.
I'm not so sure about the schmoozing (sp?) thing - dancing as instruction, sure, but wandering around like a party host going "Having a good time? Great!" doesn't seem to be any area of teaching to me.

Although I agree there are a lot of grey areas, and the line between 1-dance tuition and working the room is mighty thin sometimes.


But who says?
He does. What, you want a contract or something? :devil:

[MartinHarper]

While I prefer to have a teacher who will dance with everyone, it's fairly low on my list of priorities. Nice-to-have, but nowhere near a dealbreaker. With large classes and only one teacher, I'm only going to get the occasional dance or chat anyway, unless I resort to stalking.

I like to have a friendly, welcoming atmosphere in a venue. A teacher who dances freely with all and sundry can help that. However, there are other ways to achieve the same thing, and it's the ends that are important, not the means.

[Baby Peaches]

Great points made by Tigg, El Salsero, Andy Mac and David J. This is one of those conversations that could go on for ever and someone would still have some new comments to make.


I do think that teachers should dance with more people. I don't think that teachers should feel obligated to dance with beginners BUT there is an expectation there and it can be such a confidence booster for any dancer to dance with a teacher or taxi-dancer (hopefully that will guarantee at least a couple of good dances for them that evening :rolleyes: ). It's all the more better when they are told something complimentary or given some positive feedback after their dance.

All feedback can be worded so that it is positive and it should be encouraged more. It doesn't have to be during the dance but just a few words when they've finished - BEFORE dashing off for their next dance. That way, they've had a nice dance, they've maybe even helped that person with something that they've been having a problem with for ages but didn't know how to ask, etc, etc.


:yeah: Well said! :clap:

I still remember my first class in Perth and being so nervous dancing with Franck but the dance was great and the lovely compliment at the end just made my night :worthy: . Positive feedback at the end of a dance is definitely a great booster (for everyone, not just beginners).

[Baruch]

I voted "other". I think it's good for teachers to dance with anyone, not just beginners. That said, however, I wouldn't like it to be seen as an obligation. Yes, they should be available for people to ask for a dance, but why shouldn't they be able to just relax and have a dance with whoever they like (or just have a breather) as well? They've just taught two classes, so maybe they need a break.

At our venue, the teachers are often busy after the class, whether it's DJing, collecting money for weekenders, or whatever. They work hard, and I don't begrudge them a bit of freedom, especially as they've always been more than happy to give feedback and advice or go over a tricky move with me when I've asked. There's also the fact that they're fabulous to watch when they dance together, and I've learned a lot from just watching them. Respect to Mark and Jackie! :worthy:

[El Salsero Gringo]

Well you've expressed this opinion several times.

But who says?The most successful Ceroc franchisees, I suspect. It's what Simon Borland does extremely well at ISH on Tuesdays, and what turned it into one of the busiest nights in London.

It probably doesn't make so much difference to experienced dancers, but it does to new people. I remember well how much a smile and a word from the teacher after the class meant to me. A long time ago I went on a 'train the trainer' course for Learningtree International, an big IT training company. It focused on the five roles of the trainer: Teacher (obviously), Host (welcome - are you all comfortable? is the room at the right temperature?), Mentor (role model), Manager (time to stop talking at the back because we're moving on to the next item) and Friend. I can't see that being a Ceroc teacher is vastly different, and setting a friendly tone to the evening so that people are encouraged to stay around, practice what they've learnt, and come back the next week is surely done as much on the floor after the class as during it.

[Clive Long]

The most successful Ceroc franchisees, I suspect. It's what Simon Borland does extremely well at ISH on Tuesdays, and what turned it into one of the busiest nights in London.

It probably doesn't make so much difference to experienced dancers, but it does to new people. I remember well how much a smile and a word from the teacher after the class meant to me. A long time ago I went on a 'train the trainer' course for Learningtree International, an big IT training company. It focused on the five roles of the trainer: Teacher (obviously), ...

Is there nothing you haven't done?

Javanese noodle-knitting?

Regarding Simon Borland's success. I saw him in action for my first time this past weekend. He is successful probably because:

1. He is an excellent teacher both technically and a communicator
2. He has bags of charm and charisma that doesn't descend into smarm or insincerity

The other qualities and behaviours mentioned earlier by ESG are nice-to-have but not essentials IMO. I found ISH a bit sterile in the past. I'll give it a look. Damn, Tuesday nights gone !!

I don't expect a teacher to stay and dance with beginners or in fact anyone - although it is a gracious thing to do. Mike Ellard almost always danced with a range of people after his lessons at South Ken - and I think he's in a position to be a good role model - but again not expected by little punter me.

However, IMO taxi dancers are there (other thread, other thread) to be available to dance with beginners until 10pm - not dance with their mates (happens rarely, but it happens).

Clive

[Ballroom queen]

It's what Simon Borland does extremely well at ISH on Tuesdays, and what turned it into one of the busiest nights in London.


Or is it coz all the other venues are shut on a Tuesday??

[El Salsero Gringo]

Or is it coz all the other venues are shut on a Tuesday??No, it isn't. You can dance at Greenwich, Whetstone or until recently, O2 on Tuesdays. Give the man credit for building up a busy night by working hard not just during the class but after - staying 'till the end, inviting everyone onto the floor for the last track, inviting everyone to the bar afterwards and so on.

[Dazzle]

If I didn't work the floor after the lessons, mainly beginners but also other dancers too, the Venue Managers/Franchisees would soon be on my case. :eek: Not only do the dancers where I teach expect it, it is stipulated that, that is what my class fee is also for. I know some teachers who have been pulled for not dancing with the paying public. :mad:

To be honest, I don't mind and as it is expected I have never done anything else. It can be hard work sometimes and despite careful approaches and coaxing some beginners just will not dance with the Instructor (or is that just me :sad: ). Some classes are just to big to satisfy everyone, but I think then it is important to be seen to be working your way around the best you can. I find the feedback quite stressful. I limit it to one point per dance to avoid overloading or embarrassing any new dancers, but also take their personality and sensitiveness into account where possible. :flower:

I remember when I started it made my year when I got a dance with the Instructor, mind you her figure was to die for and all I did was trip up over my tongue at the time! :rofl:

[Gary]

I'm a teacher. I don't feel like I'm expected to dance with anyone after class, although I almost always do. When I'm dancing with beginners, I try to only give verbal critique when I'm asked for it or if they're doing something dangerous. I think they still get a fair bit of non-verbal feedback (and I try to say something encouraging when I can).

[Andy McGregor]

You don't think anyone should come to the after-class freestyle just to dance?They might do, but I'm running a dance class with the objective of helping people improve their dancing. If I think there's something simple someone can do to improve their dancing I will tell them - in a nice friendly and loving way :flower: If people don't like that there are plenty of classes where the students receive no individual coaching. They're easy to find, they're the ones where everyone dances in giant circles with no floorcraft, bouncing their hands up and down, stamping their feet, collapsing their arms, breaking their shoulders and standing a very long way apart :devil:

[El Salsero Gringo]

They might do, but I'm running a dance class with the objective of helping people improve their dancing. If I think there's something simple someone can do to improve their dancing I will tell them - in a nice friendly and loving way :flower: If people don't like that there are plenty of classes where the students receive no individual coaching. They're easy to find, they're the ones where everyone dances in giant circles with no floorcraft, bouncing their hands up and down, stamping their feet, collapsing their arms, breaking their shoulders and standing a very long way apart :devil:Must be a regional thing then, because I don't know any venues in London like that. Although perhaps that's because all the venues I know are proper Ceroc venues, with trained teachers....?

[David Bailey]

No, it isn't. You can dance at Greenwich, Whetstone or until recently, O2 on Tuesdays.
Also, the Ealing Venue Formerly Known As Hipsters, of course. In fact, I think there are still too many Tuesday night Ceroc venues in the London area, compared to most other nights.


Give the man credit for building up a busy night by working hard not just during the class but after - staying 'till the end, inviting everyone onto the floor for the last track, inviting everyone to the bar afterwards and so on.
I agree, and Simon does remind me of Mike in that way (spooky).

[Asif]

If I didn't work the floor after the lessons, mainly beginners but also other dancers too, the Venue Managers/Franchisees would soon be on my case. :eek: Not only do the dancers where I teach expect it, it is stipulated that, that is what my class fee is also for. I know some teachers who have been pulled for not dancing with the paying public. :mad:
As this is a Ceroc Forum and we are talking about Teachers, can we assume we are talking about Ceroc Teachers and not any other teachers of independant organisations? The problem is that there seem to seem to be differing opinions between what teachers are expected to do and what they are actually paid for. So, can someone just clarify something here for me. Seeing as how all Ceroc Franchises should operate in a similar manner, what are Ceroc Teachers actually paid to do? :confused:

[ChrisA]

Seeing as how all Ceroc Franchises should operate in a similar manner, what are Ceroc Teachers actually paid to do? :confused:
Good question, and one I'd like to hear an official answer to.

And, not that it's any of my business what arrangements organisers (not just Ceroc) and teachers come to, I'd be quite curious to know how much they're paid, since it would allow the hourly rate to be calculated - based on either two 45 minute lessons, or a 3.5 hour night.

Personally, I think some taxi dancers work at least as hard as a lot of teachers.

[David Bailey]

I'd be quite curious to know how much they're paid, since it would allow the hourly rate to be calculated - based on either two 45 minute lessons, or a 3.5 hour night.
Well, it's none of my business either, but that never stops me.

However, I'd say if you assume £50 a night, you won't be too far off the mark on average.


Personally, I think some taxi dancers work at least as hard as a lot of teachers.
You could say that about a lot of things, but I think the average teacher works harder on average than the average taxi dancer*. You've got to consider preparation time and rehearsal time, at least for most teachers. Whereas taxi dancers can more easily "just turn up".

*Let's see if the A-word abuse triggers a Forum Reflex

[Clive Long]

Good question, and one I'd like to hear an official answer to.

And, not that it's any of my business what arrangements organisers (not just Ceroc) and teachers come to, I'd be quite curious to know how much they're paid, since it would allow the hourly rate to be calculated - based on either two 45 minute lessons, or a 3.5 hour night.

Personally, I think some taxi dancers work at least as hard as a lot of teachers.
I PMd Asif saying it's an interesting question to me too.
Edit: I'm not interested in how much - not a king's ransom I guess - I just would like people to be clear what the official obligations of the teacher are. As I said, I expect the teacher to teach the lesson - anything else is a bonus - and adds to their general kudos. Think of it you went to a Viktor class and had a slim chance of dancing with him after :drool:


Personally, I think some taxi dancers work at least as hard as a lot of teachers.
Yep. The teacher is pretty much in control of her/his "immediate dance environment" with an experienced, competent demo (well excepting some of the characters mascerading as demos who mince around on stage at Finchley)

As a taxi you don't know what you are going to be presented with and you have to disentangle - even if it's a hopeless case. I love beginners :flower: but I tire easily - so I taxi "unofficially" and under-cover. No obligations. I can dip in and out.

Clive

[ChrisA]

Edit: I'm not interested in how much - not a king's ransom I guess - I just would like people to be clear what the official obligations of the teacher are.
The only reason I'm interested is that if it's closer to £50 than £150, the hourly rate works out at about £25 an hour.

If the teacher is any good, the venue is therefore getting excellent value for money (particularly since it's not like the teacher can schedule anything else for that evening) - and so it's perfectly reasonable in my view for the teacher not to feel that he or she is obliged to do anything except have fun for the rest of the time.

[Tessalicious]

You could say that about a lot of things, but I think the average teacher works harder on average than the average taxi dancer*. You've got to consider preparation time and rehearsal time, at least for most teachers. Teachers that prepare and rehearse in advance of arriving at the venue? Where? Who? And why? I'm convinced they're a myth...

Although the teacher is obviously the main focal point of the large class, taxis spend more time concentrating (or trying to) on tailoring the review class to the specific needs of the group they have on the night, rather than providing the standard spiel that every teacher gives in every beginners' class, and most inter classes as well. Taxis will spend an hour dancing with the beginners and not only working to help them a)get things right and b)enjoy themselves, but also working on not overloading each person with too much information, which requires instant individual assessment of what each beginner needs to be told.

We also spend more time acting as hosts/hostesses for first timers, while the teacher is busy working out what moves to teach later, ahem, I mean practising their finely honed routine.

Whereas taxi dancers can more easily "just turn up".I will agree to this statement if you will consent to a slight amendment - Taxi dancers can more easily not turn up...

Disclaimer: not that I would ever do such a thing, due to my immense dedication to the cause that is Ceroc, but others have been noted to be less scrupulous.

[David Bailey]

Teachers that prepare and rehearse in advance of arriving at the venue? Where? Who? And why? I'm convinced they're a myth...
You know, I was going to say something like that, but I thought I was in enough trouble already...

OK: "the good teachers spend time planning and rehearsing a move, trying to be inventive and original for every class." How's that?

I've heard some of them even get videoed, but maybe that's for private-collection purposes, I wouldn't know about that sort of thing.


I will agree to this statement if you will consent to a slight amendment - Taxi dancers can more easily not turn up...
I'll agree to anything, don't you know I'm Mr Agreement-Man?


(well excepting some of the characters mascerading as demos who mince around on stage at Finchley)
Yeah? Well at least some of us can spell "masquerade".
And we can follow a First Move.
And chew gum.

*puts fists up in pugilistic fashion*

[Andy McGregor]

Must be a regional thing then, because I don't know any venues in London like that. Although perhaps that's because all the venues I know are proper Ceroc venues, with trained teachers....?There are some areas where there are no Ceroc classes :innocent:

[Asif]

Good question, and one I'd like to hear an official answer to.
Cheers mate - if i get a definate answer, i'll let you know.


I'd be quite curious to know how much they're paid, since it would allow the hourly rate to be calculated - based on either two 45 minute lessons, or a 3.5 hour night.
I'm personally not fussed how much they are paid. If they are paid to ONLY teach a lesson and no more, then it's their business how much more they put into the evening. After all, most people won't just do anything for nothing. However, if they are paid to do more, then they should!


Personally, I think some taxi dancers work at least as hard as a lot of teachers.
I think that's because we have a more "front-line" feel of what's going on - how many times have we "extended" our review classes or stayed on duty for longer because there are people who are really benefiting that evening from our help.

[Asif]

Although the teacher is obviously the main focal point of the large class, taxis spend more time concentrating (or trying to) on tailoring the review class to the specific needs of the group they have on the night, rather than providing the standard spiel that every teacher gives in every beginners' class, and most inter classes as well. Taxis will spend an hour dancing with the beginners and not only working to help them a)get things right and b)enjoy themselves, but also working on not overloading each person with too much information, which requires instant individual assessment of what each beginner needs to be told.

We also spend more time acting as hosts/hostesses for first timers, while the teacher is busy working out what moves to teach later, ahem, I mean practising their finely honed routine.

:yeah: Well said Tess. However, there are less conscientious taxi-dancers out there.

[ChrisA]

I don't expect a teacher to stay and dance with beginners or in fact anyone - although it is a gracious thing to do.
This is the best summary I've read of how I see it.

I remember when I first plucked up the courage to dance with the teacher - I was very nervous, and it felt like something special - and a real achievement when I didn't completely muck it up.

I don't think I'd like the teachers to feel obliged to spend the whole freestyle night running round asking beginners to dance. If the beginners ask them, then obviously as Clive says it's gracious to accept, and as Andy says, helpful to give them an appropriate amount of feedback.

I still feel, even now, <-mumble-> years down the line, that there's something special about asking one of the really outstanding dancers to dance, not completely mucking it up, and then walking around an inch or so off the ground for the next half hour. If they felt obligated to dance with me, even if they're a teacher, it wouldn't be so special.

[ChrisA]

I think that's because we have a more "front-line" feel of what's going on - how many times have we "extended" our review classes or stayed on duty for longer because there are people who are really benefiting that evening from our help.
Not to mention teaching beginners classes with a different demonstrator every time the ladies move round...

[MartinHarper]

Teachers that prepare and rehearse in advance of arriving at the venue?

How would I know whether a teacher has prepared and rehearsed in advance of arriving?

[Clive Long]

How would I know whether a teacher has prepared and rehearsed in advance of arriving?
From the vibrational ether from your homeopathic crystals, obviously.

Tsk. Some people just don't think! :rolleyes:

[Gus]

Teachers that prepare and rehearse in advance of arriving at the venue? Where? Who? And why? I'm convinced they're a myth...Sorry ..... but a lot of the teachers I know, including myself when I was still part of the game, DO! Any teacher worth their salt plan for a series of classes to develop themes to reinforce the learning process and make the classes more fun for the dancers. Its been pretty clear to me which teachers down here DON'T prepare, but I think they are in the minority.

[Lynn]

I don't expect a teacher to stay and dance with beginners or in fact anyone - although it is a gracious thing to do. :yeah:
I agree that teachers should be available after class for beginners to dance with, should be approachable, and should say in class 'ask me for a dance later' so that beginners know they can.

I don't think they should feel they have to spend all night dancing only with beginners though. Not only beginners need feedback - someone who has been dancing for years might need and want some feedback on an aspect of their dancing. The teachers need to have some dances with more experienced dancers - dancing purely with beginners or always in 'teacher' mode in the long run will not be of benefit to their own dancing style.

[Ickle Chick'n]

While I prefer to have a teacher who will dance with everyone, it's fairly low on my list of priorities. Nice-to-have, but nowhere near a dealbreaker. With large classes and only one teacher, I'm only going to get the occasional dance or chat anyway, unless I resort to stalking.

I like to have a friendly, welcoming atmosphere in a venue. A teacher who dances freely with all and sundry can help that. However, there are other ways to achieve the same thing, and it's the ends that are important, not the means.


I have to agree... it is very true that while it is gr8 to see a teacher out working the floor, it's not practical to expect them to work their way through evey1 so there will always be someone who feels they don't make enough effort. Many feel intimidated dancing with taxi dancers never mind instructors so it's not always that easy, tho for some it can booste their confidence.

Taxi dancers are valuable as they are closer to the floor but I feel it's a buzz to be asked to be a taxi dancer, I was taxiing before I was asked officially but to be asked officially made me feel noticed and valued, tho I still get the most from seeing beginers progress. However, having the opportunity to demo too opened my eyes to the effort teachers do put into rehearsing b4 a lesson and watching the floor throughout so they deserve the credit for that at least, anything else is a bonus and lets face it everyone notices the teachers who mix with their pupil and those who tend to disappear when the class is over!

[LMC]

What Lynn said.

I'm sure that I'll get told off for being too harsh, but to me a teacher *never* staying after classes indicates that they have a lack of respect for the 'students' and I would also query whether they have a sufficient love of the subject - i.e. dancing! Maybe they can't stay for freestyle every time, but should do so regularly.

I would be interested to know the "official" line on what is expected of teachers - does this vary by franchise?

[TiggsTours]

I don't think they should feel they have to spend all night dancing only with beginners though. Not only beginners need feedback - someone who has been dancing for years might need and want some feedback on an aspect of their dancing. The teachers need to have some dances with more experienced dancers - dancing purely with beginners or always in 'teacher' mode in the long run will not be of benefit to their own dancing style.
I'm in no way suggesting that they spend all night dancing with beginners. Generally I think you'll find that there are around about 3-4 new people each week, maybe, on a busy night it may leap up to about 6 there for the first time! So lets say a 50/50 split on the sexes, that means teachers (maybe even, shock horror, demos) having around 2-3 dances a night with beginners! Possibly they could give up another, say, 5 dances to dance with other relatively new people in a night, that's about half an hour max. of their freestyle time! Not too much to ask, surely!

[Asif]

I have to agree... it is very true that while it is gr8 to see a teacher out working the floor, it's not practical to expect them to work their way through every1 so there will always be someone who feels they don't make enough effort ... [snip] ... Everyone notices the teachers who mix with their pupils and those who tend to disappear when the class is over!
Hi Honey :hug: Welcome :kiss: - true, there will always be someone who feels that they didn't get as much attention as someone else. With all things in life, no matter how much you put in, someone/somewhere will always have an opinion or something negative to say.

I don't think anyone expects the teachers to work through everyone (the original question was after all "Should teachers be expected to spend SOME of the freestyle time dancing with beginners in freestyle") but I think it's fair to say that most good teachers WILL spend a reasonable amount of time anyway.

Tigg - did you have a reason for raising this question in the first place? Have you actually come across teachers who are guilty of being selfish / not dancing with any beginners after their classes? Have you had some negative comments from dancers themselves about teachers?

[David Franklin]

Tigg - did you have a reason for raising this question in the first place? Have you actually come across teachers who are guilty of being selfish / not dancing with any beginners after their classes? Have you had some negative comments from dancers themselves about teachers?I'm assuming it was because of this (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=151902&postcount=23) post from DavidB:

This is one reason (amongst several) that I stopped teaching. I didn't mind doing it - what I disliked was the expectation that I had to do it. Two 45 minute lessons suddenly becomes over 4 hours of work where you have little or no control over what you do. Especially frustrating was teaching the first two moves again to people who only turned up for the last 15 minutes of the class.

If you expect teachers to work for 4 hours, then pay them for 4 hours.I think it's fair to say that this (teaching WCS to an audience made up 90% of beginners) involved a lot more teaching during freestyle than happens during a Ceroc class. (90% beginners doesn't just mean dancing a lot with beginners. It also means there are very few people who can "help", so people are constantly coming up and asking questions etc.)

Of course, there are teachers who are happy to spend all their evenings dancing with beginners, teaching and enthusing their audiences etc. All power to them! But I don't see it as a requirement of being a good teacher. Some very nice teachers don't have a life that revolves around teaching dance (allegedly)...

[Gus]

Of course, there are teachers who are happy to spend all their evenings dancing with beginners, teaching and enthusing their audiences etc. All power to them! But I don't see it as a requirement of being a good teacher. Some very nice teachers don't have a life that revolves around teaching dance (allegedly)...If you are a CTA instructor you HAVE to spend the majority of the night dancing with punters and especially with the beginners ... that is (was?) part of the training. To be honest I don't know if that has changed. My obesrvation is that from a couple of the central London clubs I've been to that this isnt applied to any great degree :rolleyes: HOWEVER at least Ceroc do try to make it policy ... try getting a dance with a Blitz teacher in Manchester unless you are a size 8 :mad:

Back to what DavidB said ... I think its important to differentiate between a standard Ceroc class and a more specialised class. A standard Ceroc class is by the numbers, not a great challenge for the teadcfher (as long as the prep has been done) and the teacher should be relatively unstreesed and able to strat dancing. If the class, howveer, is a more focused classs, e.g. WCS where you are paying a lot more attention to what is happening and having to think on your feet, that takles a lot more out of you and you may well need a break. Different formats should have a different expectation on the teacher.

[ChrisA]

Some very nice teachers don't have a life that revolves around teaching dance (allegedly)...
Well obviously... WCS is a slotted dance... duh.. :rolleyes:

[TiggsTours]

Tigg - did you have a reason for raising this question in the first place? Have you actually come across teachers who are guilty of being selfish / not dancing with any beginners after their classes? Have you had some negative comments from dancers themselves about teachers?

As per my original entry:


I wanted to start a poll, in relation to a subject raised on another thread.

The other thread being, "If it was your venue, what would you do?" and the main comment to spark my question was:


This is one reason (amongst several) that I stopped teaching. I didn't mind doing it - what I disliked was the expectation that I had to do it. Two 45 minute lessons suddenly becomes over 4 hours of work where you have little or no control over what you do. Especially frustrating was teaching the first two moves again to people who only turned up for the last 15 minutes of the class.

If you expect teachers to work for 4 hours, then pay them for 4 hours.

Alot of people seemed to think differently, but then reading this, I think that DavidB was doing more than I'm talking about. He's right, nobody (teacher or taxi) should be expected to be running the class again with somebody who just couldn't be bothered to get there in time, and that's not what I'm suggesting, but I do think teachers should be expected to spend some of their evening socialising with, and dancing with, anybody, no matter what their ability, or whether or not they are a personal friend. Teachers should indeed be able to get their own social time to dance with who they want to dance with too, or even go home early once in a while! I'm not disputing that.

[Gus]

Alot of people didn't seem to agree with that comment, and I guess this poll is really proving that.A lot of people aren't teachers, dont know what goes on with a teacher and VERY FEW of them have DavidB's experience. I would say that if DavidB makes a point I would maybe give it a little more thought than the thread so far has indicated. Put it another way, there is a large difference between DavidB teaching one of his classes and a standard Ceroc night ... noy neccesarily better but differenet. I dont think its valid to make a comparison between a speacilaist class and a standard Ceroc class ... so I dont think that the poll is any reflection on Dave's comment. The intersting point is that very few (if any) instructors seem to have contributed to thie thread? :rolleyes:

[El Salsero Gringo]

The intersting point is that very few (if any) instructors seem to have contributed to thie thread? :rolleyes:Perhaps as a professional courtesy they don't really want to get involved in what is effectively a critique of how other teachers work?

One of the perks of being "just" a regular punter is that you can (within reason) comment on what you like and don't like about different evenings; it's a bit different if you're on the other side of the fence.

It's as if those that are saying, don't know - and those that know aren't saying, to paraphrase.

[Gus]

Perhaps as a professional courtesy they don't really want to get involved in what is effectively a critique of how other teachers work?Valid point .... but I feel that the one thing the forum seems to miss (and I dont really understand why) is that for the most part the Organisers and Teachers in MJ rarely explain why they do things or openly ask for feedback (unless you are Andy McG :wink: ) which I think is a lost opportunity.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Valid point .... but I feel that the one thing the forum seems to miss (and I dont really understand why) is that for the most part the Organisers and Teachers in MJ rarely explain why they do things or openly ask for feedback (unless you are Andy McG :wink: ) which I think is a lost opportunity.I agree. Probably a lot of reasons, but Ceroc is quite tight-lipped about the methodolody behind their teaching 'systems', and I think that's fair enough. I'm sure some of that rubs off, and then again how many have the time to engage in any kind of depth on the Forum? You can't tell who's just listening to ideas though.

[Gus]

I agree. Probably a lot of reasons, but Ceroc is quite tight-lipped about the methodolody behind their teaching 'systems', and I think that's fair enough.Aye. Maybe I say a bit more than I should ... but that’s sometimes because I feel that there is a major misunderstanding about what the CTA is all about. Despite everything that is said I think there tends to be a natural slippage from the aims of the original CTA training from what is taught to teachers and what is actually put in practice a few years down the road. some of this isn't important and some of it is. there was talk 3 years ago about all teachers being re-assessed (i.e. mystery dancer comes to venue to evaluate teacher). I still think that would be a good idea, though I can also understand this being objected to.

Te CTA model for teaching Ceroc, entertaining punters and giving individual dancers encouragement and guidance is great ... if it was consistently applied in practice ... and that is where I tend to get on my soapbox again. :rolleyes:

[David Franklin]

I dont think its valid to make a comparison between a speacilaist class and a standard Ceroc class ... so I dont think that the poll is any reflection on Dave's comment.Given the poll was apparently a response to DavidB's comment, it's a pretty poorly constructed one. DavidB was replying to the statement:
Teachers should be on duty for the whole of the evening going round as many people as possiblewhile the poll asks merely
Should teachers be expected to dance with beginners?Big difference.


It's not the first time someone's started a poll to "back up their point of view", and phrased things to completely slant the outcome. I'm sure it's more accidental rather than purposeful, but I still find it annoying. It does actually take thought to word a poll properly...

[El Salsero Gringo]

Given the poll was apparently a response to DavidB's comment, it's a pretty poorly constructed one. DavidB was replying to the statement:while the poll asks merely Big difference.


It's not the first time someone's started a poll to "back up their point of view", and phrased things to completely slant the outcome. I'm sure it's more accidental rather than purposeful, but I still find it annoying. It does actually take thought to word a poll properly...
I didn't think the poll was any reflection on what DavidB said, because as you point out, it's asking a different question, but I thought that was deliberate, and not obfuscatory.

[azande]

Yeah, the same thought it should take to word every single post on this forum!

[David Franklin]

I didn't think the poll was any reflection on what DavidB said, because as you point out, it's asking a different question, but I thought that was deliberate, and not obfuscatory.To quote ChrisA on another thread:
This is exactly the sort of disingenuous partial misquote that you get so often from politicians. They appear to respond to what was said, but they change it slightly to make it easier for them to remain on their own message.I don't think it's any better when it happens in a poll. It's not exactly what happened here, however, and I do believe it was accidental in this case.

[El Salsero Gringo]

To quote ChrisA on another thread:I don't think it's any better when it happens in a poll. It's not exactly what happened here, however, and I do believe it was accidental in this case.Perhaps you two could form the Forum Disingenuous Partial Misquote Police? :whistle:

[Gus]

I think that the poll is extreemly valuable. It lays out what the expectation is of Jo Puiblic. I think my concern was that it was then linked back to DaveB, and in a negative way. Not that Dave needs defending, BUT I would challenge most people to put forward someone who has does as much as Dave and Lily to promote dance, good technique and excellent attitude. They have spent counteless hours coaching people, not only in professional coaching sessions, but also in their own time and for gratis. That is why I think I take a slight amount of offenbce to any insinuation that they are "in it for the money".
{RANT OVER}

[TiggsTours]

A lot of people aren't teachers, dont know what goes on with a teacher and VERY FEW of them have DavidB's experience. I would say that if DavidB makes a point I would maybe give it a little more thought than the thread so far has indicated. Put it another way, there is a large difference between DavidB teaching one of his classes and a standard Ceroc night ... noy neccesarily better but differenet. I dont think its valid to make a comparison between a speacilaist class and a standard Ceroc class ... so I dont think that the poll is any reflection on Dave's comment. The intersting point is that very few (if any) instructors seem to have contributed to thie thread? :rolleyes:
So right you are, and as I explained, it wasn't just DavidB's comment, but also a number of other comments on the same thread, but primarily DavidB's as it was a very different thought to my own (doesn't make either right or wrong!) that had sparked a thought in my head, which had in turn sparked this poll. As I also went on to say, after re-reading DavidB's comment, I realised that maybe we were talking at cross-purposes, but that doesn't mean I'm still not interested in seeing what other people think.

This was an open poll for everybody (including teachers) to make their thoughts known, it wasn't meant in anyway to pass judgement on anyone, and so far, I don't believe it has. All it has done is highlight that the majority of people think that teachers should stick around and dance with people during the night, including, but not by no means exclusively, beginners, and they should do this not out of a sense of dreaded obligation but due to the fact it should be part of the role they have chosen to take on, and should be an enjoyable and valuable part of teaching.

[TiggsTours]

I think that the poll is extreemly valuable. It lays out what the expectation is of Jo Puiblic. I think my concern was that it was then linked back to DaveB, and in a negative way. Not that Dave needs defending, BUT I would challenge most people to put forward someone who has does as much as Dave and Lily to promote dance, good technique and excellent attitude. They have spent counteless hours coaching people, not only in professional coaching sessions, but also in their own time and for gratis. That is why I think I take a slight amount of offenbce to any insinuation that they are "in it for the money".
{RANT OVER}
As I just said, this was linked back to DavidB because I was asked what had sparked the thought. DavidB's comment sparked the thought, along with responses, but that does not make it a negative link. If you go on to read my comment, you will see that I go on to explain that DavidB's comment may indeed show that he was not talking about quite the same thing as me, but it still sparked a thought in my head, nothing wrong with that!

I am in no means criticising DavidB's decision not to teach anymore, or the fact it has anything to do with his experience of having to spend the whole night teaching people who either couldn't be bothered to turn up to his class, or pay attention, I think he's perfectly justified in being annoyed about that. All I am saying is that his comment about giving up teaching because of this expectation made me wonder how people felt about it, that's all, nobody has been attacking anyone on this thread, until now it seems. :angry:

[Whitebeard]

May I say that in my area, at the two Ceroc nights, both the teacher and the DJ devote a lot of their time to beginner ladies (and it never ceases to amaze me how good these ladies look). This was noticeably not the case at another local organisation's lessons.

[Lou]

May I say that in my area, at the two Ceroc nights, both the teacher and the DJ devote a lot of their time to beginner ladies
And not just the beginner ladies! I'm assuming you're referring to H & John, who both ask all ladies to dance, regardless of whether they're regulars, beginners, visitors or whoever (even me!). :clap: It goes a long way to making their customers feel welcomed.

[Whitebeard]

I'm assuming you're referring to H & John, ......
That's right Lou, and also Nico on Wednesdays (he has a more energetic style and must burn up quite a few calories). I take off my hat to all three and, yes, they widen their net in the second freestyle session to even include strange ladies from Bristol !!!!!

[dance cat]

My original comment in the thread about what you would want in your venue was prompted by my experiences as a primary school teacher and how this contrasted with my experiences as a dance 'learner'. there is a world of difference between the teacher saying 'Come and ask me for a dance later' and actually demonstrating that you do this by actually dancing with lots of different standards of dancer. I demonstrate to the children in my class that they can ask me for help by letting them see that I will help them. It's the same for adults. As an underconfident dancer I want to see teachers going round asking lots of different standards of dancer to dance and being available to dance when asked. This proves to me that what the teacher says does actually happen. There are many dancers like me who don't have bags of confidence to go and ask a teacher to dance and need that reinforcement. As a visitor to London I was amazed and really thrilled to see Nigel going round the room at Hipsters asking every lady to dance- and he even asked me and I almost died of shock but I learnt such a lot from that experience. I also had that experience with Will recently- again nearly dying from shock.
If as a teacher I did my lesson from the board and didn't go near any of my children to see how they were understanding what I'd taught or invite feedback while I was teaching then I would be a very poor teacher.
Unfortunately I have come across too many teachers at dance venues who don't go near the dancers, leave straight after they have done the lesson or sit in isolation with a few of the 'in crowd' and make it quite clear that ordinary mortals need not approach. This to me is not fulfilling the requirements of a good teacher. And before anyone says go and dance somewhere else I don't have that much of a choice other than to give up dancing. :tears:

[Russell Saxby]

The intersting point is that very few (if any) instructors seem to have contributed to thie thread? :rolleyes:

Well Gus boy, just to stop you nagging

When on duty I think a teacher should spend:-

45-50% of freestyle time should be spent with beginners, and by that I mean those have have been coming say up to say 10 weeks or so.

20% of the time should be spent dancing with new faces, providing there are new faces to be had

The remaining 20% should be spent dancing with regulars.... and by this I mean regulars that you have not danced with for a while..

5-10% drinking water / catching up / socialising / resting.

The remaining 5% with :drool: dancers

I often turn experienced dancers down straight after the class, and tell them I am dancing with beginners only for a period of time. Sometimes I ask beginners , other times I put myself in a poisiton so that they can ask me.

I often find weeks go by when I don't get to dance with our taxis

However, I am only human - sometimes I am under the weather and need to a pace myself, and the only way I can do this is do take myself away for a few minutes - but this is not the norm.

But putting this in perspective, I am a franchise owner and have more of an incentive to dance with beginners.

[Gus]

When on duty I think a teacher should spend:-

45-50% of freestyle time should be spent with beginners, and by that I mean those have have been coming say up to say 10 weeks or so.

20% of the time should be spent dancing with new faces, providing there are new faces to be had

The remaining 20% should be spent dancing with regulars.... and by this I mean regulars that you have not danced with for a while..

5-10% drinking water / catching up / socialising / resting.

The remaining 5% with :drool: dancers As much as I HATE to give young Russet any praise, I wonder if his pro-active attitude has anything to do with the success of Greenwich (well worth a visit!) ..... NAAHHHHHH, its porbably down to that foxy babe Kelly's teaching! :drool: :wink:

[Andy McGregor]

NAAHHHHHH, its porbably down to that foxy babe Kelly's teaching! :drool: :wink:
:yeah:

[jockey]

I voted "other". I think it's good for teachers to dance with anyone, not just beginners. That said, however, I wouldn't like it to be seen as an obligation. Yes, they should be available for people to ask for a dance, but why shouldn't they be able to just relax and have a dance with whoever they like (or just have a breather) as well? They've just taught two classes, so maybe they need a break.

At our venue, the teachers are often busy after the class, whether it's DJing, collecting money for weekenders, or whatever. They work hard, and I don't begrudge them a bit of freedom, especially as they've always been more than happy to give feedback and advice or go over a tricky move with me when I've asked. There's also the fact that they're fabulous to watch when they dance together, and I've learned a lot from just watching them. Respect to Mark and Jackie! :worthy:
I agree that its a good thing for teachers to "work the room" (what an excellent phrase) - I know this from personal experience and reports from other dancers.
On Mark and Jackie of Planet Le Roc, I first came across them at Camber, about 5 years ago, dancing freestyle downstairs. I was beguiled and impressed - so different from others and very skilled. I got a dance or two with Jackie and admit to developing a crush on her; that crush has evened out with getting to know them both. They are immensely likeable, approachable and love to dance and compete and seem completely immune to disappoinment when they dont win. What a credit to MJ! :worthy: :clap:

[Gus]

The feedback thing could be quite a challenge, especially if you have to be honest. What do you say to something who absolutely sucks .... you know, no sense of rhythm, despite constant correction they still have the 'ceroc bounce', grip of for dear life and constantly do new moves when they cant get the basics right????

I'm sure it was someone in NZ said they had one guy who had been dancing 6months+ but she wouldn’t let him into the intermediate class because he was so bad. That must be hard to take (and say).

[TiggsTours]

The feedback thing could be quite a challenge, especially if you have to be honest. What do you say to something who absolutely sucks ....

You suck! Don't come back!:rofl:

Now, seriously.....


no sense of rhythm.....

"This is quite a difficult track to dance to, take some time, stick to something simple like a hand-jive till you get the rythmn, if you're struggling with that, take the lead from you partner on the rythmn, try listening to the music, not just the beat, what mood is the song?"


they still have the 'ceroc bounce'

If you say anything with a smile, it is always taken better, I tend to go all bouncy when they do this, and hard to lead, then, when they are struggling, I'll explain that when they lead with a bounce, I'll dance with one"


grip on for dear life

As with above, say it with a smile! You can always try the odd jokey response, keep lifting the thumb off, and after a while, threaten to cut it off (with a smile!). Get them to try a move with and without the grip, and really exagerate the difficulty with it, and the ease without!


constantly do new moves when they cant get the basics right????

I always point out to the beginners when I'm taxi-ing, that I'd far rather do a few simple moves well, than loads of amazing ones badly! Tell them that doing something simply and perfectly is a far better way to impress the girls than going in, all guns blazing, and getting it all wrong!


I'm sure it was someone in NZ said they had one guy who had been dancing 6months+ but she wouldn’t let him into the intermediate class because he was so bad. That must be hard to take (and say).
Sometimes you just have to accept that some people will just never get it! But, at the end of the day, we nearly all dance for pleasure, not to be the best, so long as you concentrate on that, I don't see anything wrong! I know one guy who's been dancing 8 months, still always does the beginner review class because he doesn't want to do the intermediate! He'd rather be an expert beginner than a bad intermediate, and most girls would prefer that too!


At the end of the day, this giving feedback thing is something ALL taxi dancers have to do, without months of training, so I can't see for one minute why it would be such a difficulty for a teacher.

[David Bailey]

{ excellent points }
Superb responses - they should go into the Taxi Dancers' Manual or something.

If only all taxi dancers were like TiggsTours... (Not in a spooky cloning way, though, that'd be, well, spooky).

[Gus]

At the end of the day, this giving feedback thing is something ALL taxi dancers have to do, without months of training, so I can't see for one minute why it would be such a difficulty for a teacher.I've been giving feedback (as a taxi dancer and teacher) for over 6 years now, at all levels from muggles/beginners to advanced and competition dancers. I KNOW what you are supposed to do .... I was merely trying to make the point is that human nature being what it is, some of the worst offenders are those less likely to hear or internalise what you are trying to say. As a number of teachers have already stated elsewhere ... you have a very limited amount of time to give feedback on a club night and, to be frank, the teaching model is NOT about 'teaching' individuals on a club night. Sad but true. The main incentive for a teacher to progress students normally comes when it is your own franchise and it can be a soul destroying exercise (personal experience :( ).

[TiggsTours]

Superb responses - they should go into the Taxi Dancers' Manual or something.

If only all taxi dancers were like TiggsTours... (Not in a spooky cloning way, though, that'd be, well, spooky).
I was going to give you some "Aw, shucks! :blush: " rep for that, but it seems I've given you too much already!

[TiggsTours]

I've been giving feedback (as a taxi dancer and teacher) for over 6 years now, at all levels from muggles/beginners to advanced and competition dancers. I KNOW what you are supposed to do .... I was merely trying to make the point is that human nature being what it is, some of the worst offenders are those less likely to hear or internalise what you are trying to say. As a number of teachers have already stated elsewhere ... you have a very limited amount of time to give feedback on a club night and, to be frank, the teaching model is NOT about 'teaching' individuals on a club night. Sad but true. The main incentive for a teacher to progress students normally comes when it is your own franchise and it can be a soul destroying exercise (personal experience :( ).
You asked, I answered, no need to bite my head off!

[Baruch]

You asked, I answered, no need to bite my head off!
Would the end result look like this?

[TiggsTours]

Would the end result look like this?
Something like that. As I'm not a chicken, would I still keep running around?

[David Bailey]

I was going to give you some "Aw, shucks! :blush: " rep for that, but it seems I've given you too much already!
Too much rep? :confused: :eek:

How is that possible? This is another of your Zen-like questions (ala "Too much Latin"), yes?

:whistle:

[TiggsTours]

Too much rep? :confused: :eek:

How is that possible? This is another of your Zen-like questions (ala "Too much Latin"), yes?

:whistle:
Don't know, it just came up saying I need to "spread some around" before I can give you anymore! I had no idea I'd given you so much!:eek:

[David Bailey]

Don't know, it just came up saying I need to "spread some around" before I can give you anymore! I had no idea I'd given you so much!:eek:
Heh, I was just teasing. You've got to give it to 5 other people before you can give it to the same person again. Rep, that is.

[Baruch]

Something like that. As I'm not a chicken, would I still keep running around?
Nah. Tiggers don't run; they bounce.

[Gus]

You asked, I answered, no need to bite my head off!
Wasn't aware I was bitting anyones head off.:blush: You posted a comment. I posted clarifying my earlier post.....

[ChrisA]

Wasn't aware I was bitting anyones head off.:blush: You posted a comment. I posted clarifying my earlier post.....
Yeah, Gus, but Tiggs has only been around for a little while.

She hasn't had the time to realise that what, from anyone else, would count as biting someone's head off, from you it's gently nibbling on the ears :flower:

[Russell Saxby]

Yeah, Gus, but Tiggs has only been around for a little while.

She hasn't had the time to realise that what, from anyone else, would count as biting someone's head off, from you it's gently nibbling on the ears :flower:

yeah he's really just a big old puddy cat :na: