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ducasi
14th-September-2005, 08:54 AM
Besides how to dance, what have you learnt from your dancing?

I posted this on my blog earlier (http://ducasi.org/blog/2005/09/12/grand-tour-post-mortem/), but thought it deserved greater exposure... (and more smilies!)
<hr> Now my Grand Tour of Scotland is over, I thought I should have a look back at the whole experience and see what I can learn from the experience...

Let's see... We'll mix the good with the bad...

Don't dance with indigestion. :sick:
Don't have the pasta at the next Musselburgh comp (maybe related with the previous point?)
Don't expect to feel good about your standard of dancing at a competition unless you win something.
Don't try to take photos of dancers in action without a flash unless you've got a tripod, and a very fast exposure on your camera. :rolleyes:
Don't expect your dancing to up to scratch when you're mentally and physically tired. :(
You can enter a competition and not do well and the world doesn't end.
You have to be careful of dancers who will hurt you pretty much everywhere you go.
Sometimes it's the dancers that can hurt you that will also give you the best dances.
The very best dancers will only give you heart-ache. :tears:
Don't try to go to Aberdeen when there's an oil conference on.
Take chocolate with you. :yum:
A lack of people, especially women, can diminish an otherwise good night.
It's difficult to learn complex moves when you're sitting off at the side for a third of the class. :sad:
Learning the same move three times in a week doesn't always help.
Everywhere you go to dance, if you're prepared to work a little, you'll have a great time.
Good dance shoes can still lead to sore feet.
Scottish Ceroc dancers are the greatest bunch of people.
English Ceroc dancers are an alright bunch too. ;)
In fact, where-ever you come from, you're probably cool, as most people are good, honest, kind, and helpful.
We have a fantastic bunch of teachers.
We have some of the best DJs in the UK.
Seducers are lovely.
Aberdeen had the best buzz.
Dundee had the most enthusiastic dancers.
Edinburgh had the best looking women (but it's a close contest!)
Nothing beats Glasgow though.
Sitting on a train with nothing to do for three hours can be a good time for reflection.
Especially in the windows. :wink:
As an adult, you really shouldn't sit on a train sucking your thumb. :sick:
It's nice to go away once in a while.
It's nice to come home too.
It's good to hear that you've been missed. :waycool:
Not dancing can make you grumpy.
Dancing makes you happy.


What other things have I missed? What have you learnt from your reflections on dancing?

JoC
14th-September-2005, 10:17 AM
Sometimes it's the dancers that can hurt you that will also give you the best dances.Eh? :confused:

CJ
14th-September-2005, 10:23 AM
The very best dancers will only give you heart-ache. :tears:


:sick: I'll vouch for that...

LMC
14th-September-2005, 10:30 AM
< snips bits which don't apply at all or at least quite so much >
Everywhere you go to dance, if you're prepared to work a little, you'll have a great time.
In fact, where-ever you come from, you're probably cool, as most people are good, honest, kind, and helpful.
Seducers are lovely.
Not dancing can make you grumpy.
Dancing makes you happy.
[/list]

:yeah:

I can't remember who said dancing is too important to take too seriously - I try to keep that in mind, because I know I frequently get over-analytical about stuff :blush:

ducasi
14th-September-2005, 10:30 AM
Eh? :confused: I know some women that will give you a great dance, but often at the expensive of a bit of yanking or death-gripping.

You've got to decide whether the quality of the dance is worth the pain.

I'd guess it works the other way around, but maybe not?

David Bailey
14th-September-2005, 10:46 AM
{ snip big list }
What other things have I missed? What have you learnt from your reflections on dancing?

Funnily enough, I did something similar here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5010) - but nothing like as comprehensive, nice one :)

LMC
14th-September-2005, 10:47 AM
I know some women that will give you a great dance, but often at the expensive of a bit of yanking or death-gripping.

You've got to decide whether the quality of the dance is worth the pain.

I'd guess it works the other way around, but maybe not?
Hmmmm, interesting...

For me, NEVER - I was very shallow recently on my first visit to a venue and rather pleased when a good-looking guy who had been friendly in class asked me for a dance. Never again - hadn't noticed in the one beginner class rotation I was partnered with him, but in freestyle he was way off beat and had the worst death grip and bouncy hand (which makes the lead unclear to a beginner like me).

Perhaps because as a leader you are (theoretically in some cases I know :D ) in control of the dance, the pleasure is worth the pain. As a follower, I can flex my fingers to loosen a death grip (or even let go if needed) and I'm strong enough to resist most yanking (for the first time ever on Saturday I had such a bad one that I got cross enough to yank right back :mad: - and told him why!). But it's never ever pleasurable to react to negative aspects of a lead.

ducasi
14th-September-2005, 10:59 AM
Funnily enough, I did something similar here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5010) - but nothing like as comprehensive, nice one :)
I knew I'd seen something similar before, but couldn't find it. :blush:

Like your list too though! :nice:

filthycute
14th-September-2005, 11:48 AM
No one is 'too good a dancer' to ask for a dance.

Sure they might say no, but thats their problem.....as highlighted by LMC. Did i mention i found that incredibly amusing? :rofl:

I think it's laughable and i am yet to witness anyone in this country on the MJ scene that is so utterly fantastic that they think they have the right to treat people the way they do.

I can't wait to come to Hammersith :devil: :clap:

fc x

TiggsTours
14th-September-2005, 11:56 AM
A lack of people, especially women, can diminish an otherwise good night.
Pah! Speak for yourself!

A lack of people can often be a great night, so long as the right people are the ones that show up,

and a lack of women!? Typical man to complain about that one! It happens so rarely (as opposed to the opposite) that for us girlies it leads to a great, and surprising, night, and for you guys, its always good to get a chance to experience what we girlies have to deal with all the time!

As for other things learnt from dancing?

If you don't like something, don't do it, it doesn't mean having to sacrifice the parts you do like.

David Bailey
14th-September-2005, 12:26 PM
i am yet to witness anyone in this country on the MJ scene that is so utterly fantastic that they think they have the right to treat people the way they do.
Ooh, a hotshot comment :)

No-one, ever, does have the right to be rude that way. If you're at an MJ dance venue, you're there to dance with people. Story, end of.

However, there are some people (and the numbers of such people is debatable) who think they have that "right". Normally, the numbers of these corporate-lawyer-equivalents are low, in the same way there are other undesirables in the MJ scene (e.g. pervs). But they can occasionally clump like germs, hence the need for some serious Dettol-ing.


I can't wait to come to Hammersith :devil: :clap:
Nah, they'll all be busted by next time you visit.


A lack of people can often be a great night, so long as the right people are the ones that show up,
Hmmm, I'm coming around to this point of view. The trick, as always, is getting the right people. But then we'd be accused of being elitist hotshots, oops...

MartinHarper
14th-September-2005, 12:45 PM
What have you learnt from your reflections on dancing?

I read a webcomic recently, where the heroine was taking an African Dance class, and muttered "I am so white" as a despairing aside. That rang a bell - though for me it was "I am so white male". Where the heck are my hips?

JoC
14th-September-2005, 01:29 PM
I know some women that will give you a great dance, but often at the expensive of a bit of yanking or death-gripping.

You've got to decide whether the quality of the dance is worth the pain.

I'd guess it works the other way around, but maybe not?Care to elaborate on the pluses that cancel out the yanking and death-gripping? They would be part of my quality assessment if I was being so analytical.

CJ
14th-September-2005, 01:32 PM
though for me it was "I am so white male". Where the heck are my hips?

:yeah: :rofl:

FYI: the celts tens to have rhythm. Saxons and Normans, am not so sure about.... :devil:

Minnie M
14th-September-2005, 01:41 PM
I know some women that will give you a great dance, but often at the expensive of a bit of yanking or death-gripping.
:confused: is that a GOOD Dance :confused: :whistle:

ducasi
14th-September-2005, 01:45 PM
A lack of people can often be a great night, so long as the right people are the ones that show up, That's certainly true. Later in my list I said:

Everywhere you go to dance, if you're prepared to work a little, you'll have a great time. Because, on the night I was thinking of, putting in a little extra effort paid off.

and a lack of women!? Typical man to complain about that one! It happens so rarely (as opposed to the opposite) ... I can only reflect on the experience from a man's point of view. Why I feel it's worse if there are extra men, is that if you're a good follower, you won't need to practice a move as much as any lead. So, when I was only taking part for two thirds of the class I found learning some moves very difficult. I'd imagine it would not be as great a problem for most women. But any large imbalance isn't good.

As for other things learnt from dancing?

If you don't like something, don't do it, it doesn't mean having to sacrifice the parts you do like. Yep. :nice:

ducasi
14th-September-2005, 01:49 PM
:confused: is that a GOOD Dance :confused: :whistle: It'd certainly be better if the yanking and death-grip wasn't there, but it can still be fun. Sometimes I just have to go with the flow and allow myself to enjoy the good while trying to minimise the bad.

ducasi
14th-September-2005, 02:02 PM
Care to elaborate on the pluses that cancel out the yanking and death-gripping? They would be part of my quality assessment if I was being so analytical. Sure... The main things that can really make a dance special for me, despite the risk of pain, are all to do with the attitude of my partner.

She's giving me lots of (sexy) eye-contact and smiles – especially in closer moves, like baskets, or combs.
She is enthusiastic, letting herself just go with the music, without inhibition.
She is a good dancer, can follow well and is in time with the music.
She can improvise when called upon to do so, or even when not!

Are there no guys like this? Perhaps it's just harder for guys to give good attitude, while women can be less inhibited. I'd be interested in women's impressions.

TiggsTours
14th-September-2005, 02:04 PM
:confused: is that a GOOD Dance :confused: :whistle:
I certainly wouldn't have thought so. I'd say a GOOD dance is all about connection and sharing, not about the fantastic moves put in, and the fact the girl span 16 times on 1 beat!

JoC
14th-September-2005, 02:20 PM
She is a good dancer, can follow well and is in time with the music.
I would have thought this means no death grip or yanking. But each to their own interpretation.

ducasi
14th-September-2005, 02:21 PM
I certainly wouldn't have thought so. I'd say a GOOD dance is all about connection and sharing, not about the fantastic moves put in, and the fact the girl span 16 times on 1 beat!
Look at the list I gave in the post above yours. I think we're in agreement, yes? :flower:

ducasi
14th-September-2005, 02:29 PM
I would have thought this means no death grip or yanking. But each to their own interpretation. Two dancers I have fun dancing with can be a bit grippy. One of them can yank a bit too. But they both will follow my lead, be in perfect time with the music and add their own style to the dance.

So, they are good dancers. I have fun dancing with them. Maybe they could be better and more fun without their tight grip and yanking behaviour, but I'm not going to risk upsetting them by telling them.

There are definitely dancers I have no fun with, that I would say are not good, who grip on and yank. I try not to dance with these people.

ducasi
14th-September-2005, 02:30 PM
As an adult, you really shouldn't sit on a train sucking your thumb. I'm surprised no-one has asked about this yet...

TiggsTours
14th-September-2005, 02:36 PM
I'm surprised no-one has asked about this yet...
Why should they? I'm sure we've all done that one before! :rofl:

TiggsTours
14th-September-2005, 02:38 PM
I would have thought this means no death grip or yanking. But each to their own interpretation.
Erm, sort of, but I'd say arm yanking and death grip actually cancels out all of those.

TiggsTours
14th-September-2005, 02:41 PM
Two dancers I have fun dancing with can be a bit grippy. One of them can yank a bit too. But they both will follow my lead, be in perfect time with the music and add their own style to the dance.

So, they are good dancers. I have fun dancing with them. Maybe they could be better and more fun without their tight grip and yanking behaviour, but I'm not going to risk upsetting them by telling them.

There are definitely dancers I have no fun with, that I would say are not good, who grip on and yank. I try not to dance with these people.
Hmm, I'd think about that one, I know someone who actually had a finger dislocated by a death gripper, and I've had a bad shoulder strain from a yanker (I'm sure alot of girls can relate to that one!) which put us both out of the dancing scene for a while. I'm sure the death gripper and yanker had a great dance, and, at the time, we may have quite enjoyed them ourselves, but nobody who causes physical damage to their partner, causing them to stop dancing, can possibly be called a "good" dancer, and needs to be told, IMO.

ducasi
14th-September-2005, 02:47 PM
Why should they? I'm sure we've all done that one before! :rofl: Not me, that's for sure. But it was a surprise to see it! :really:

ducasi
14th-September-2005, 02:54 PM
Hmm, I'd think about that one, I know someone who actually had a finger dislocated by a death gripper, and I've had a bad shoulder strain from a yanker (I'm sure alot of girls can relate to that one!) which put us both out of the dancing scene for a while. I'm sure the death gripper and yanker had a great dance, and, at the time, we may have quite enjoyed them ourselves, but nobody who causes physical damage to their partner, causing them to stop dancing, can possibly be called a "good" dancer, and needs to be told, IMO. OK, but look at how I have qualified my statements... "sometimes", "that can hurt", "a bit grippy" and "can yank a bit".

I don't ever enjoy dances with the really bad death-grippers, and I regularly complain about them. My original statement should be taken in that context.

I'm not sure if I've had any major problems with yankers, but I think it's more women that suffer from yanking men, rather than the other way about. (As we can do something about it!)

Now let's either talk about some of my other sweeping generalisations, or perhaps you, (or anyone else,) can add some more? :flower:

bigdjiver
14th-September-2005, 03:07 PM
I have been cut by nails three times, and all of those ladies are on my "must ask" list, as are a lot of those that have perforated my feet with stilletos. I am an adventurous dancer, and, despite all good intentions, am sure that I have caused more pain than I have received. I usually shrug off apologies with "I deserve it", and I probably do.

stewart38
14th-September-2005, 04:57 PM
OK, but look at how I have qualified my statements... "sometimes", "that can hurt", "a bit grippy" and "can yank a bit".

I don't ever enjoy dances with the really bad death-grippers, and I regularly complain about them. My original statement should be taken in that context.

I'm not sure if I've had any major problems with yankers, but I think it's more women that suffer from yanking men, rather than the other way about. (As we can do something about it!)

Now let's either talk about some of my other sweeping generalisations, or perhaps you, (or anyone else,) can add some more? :flower:


For once ive read the whole thread and you have answered the questions I was going to raise :yeah:

Purple Sparkler
14th-September-2005, 05:34 PM
Things I've learned:

-Deodorant, spare t-shirts/dresses/sparkly tops and a towel are not optional extras, especially in summer.

-If a skirt can swirl up so it shows your knickers, it's going to.

-Strapless tops are a bad idea if your venue is attended by Kiwi men.

-The best exit from a Wrap Somersault is the Superwoman pose.

-Only boring people get bored.

-Good dancers recognise that they don't know everything, and are always willing to learn.

-If it's happening on the dancefloor, most of the time it doesn't mean anything...

-but sometimes it does.

-Going non-rotational with a female friend who has lots of gossip to tell you and demand from you is not conducive to you both learning the intermediate moves.

JoC
14th-September-2005, 05:36 PM
Erm, sort of, but I'd say arm yanking and death grip actually cancels out all of those.We're possibly in agreement but at cross purposes, I think that's what I was saying. :flower:

Lynn
14th-September-2005, 07:56 PM
-If a skirt can swirl up so it shows your knickers, it's going to. I would add to that - it will always swirl up more when dancing than it ever does in the changing room or when trying it out in front of a mirror (esp when the lead realises this and puts you into lots and lots of spins!)

Tessalicious
14th-September-2005, 08:48 PM
-Going non-rotational with a female friend who has lots of gossip to tell you and demand from you is not conducive to you both learning the intermediate moves. :whistle: Can't imagine what you might be talking about.

But if I had to choose between gossip of the Purple Sparkler variety and a class which consists of: double-spin, wrist-breaker, double-man-spin, arm-wrencher, lean, swizzle, another lean, surprise drop, triple-both-spin and back-to-the-start, I know what I'd rather do.

David Bailey
14th-September-2005, 09:02 PM
(esp when the lead realises this and puts you into lots and lots of spins!)
I find the best thing to lead to make swirly skirts more swirly is double-time wiggles; get it right and you can even set up a proper harmonic pattern... Mmm, swirly skirts.

Andreas
14th-September-2005, 10:07 PM
What haveI learnt from my dancing??

I have learnt that NOT ALL girls just want one thing - and then I met my girlfriend :rofl:

bigdjiver
14th-September-2005, 10:23 PM
Things I've learned:
...
-If a skirt can swirl up so it shows your knickers, it's going to.
...Phil at Ceroc central has done his best to alleviate the hot weather by buying lots of very powerful blower fans. They do not generally affect skirts very much because the air comes out at ankle level. I learned a bit about fluid dynamics. My partner said she had a very light skirt and insisted we got as far away from the blowers as possible. I needed cooling. We compromised by getting as far away from the blower as possible, into the centre of the room, equidistant from two opposing blowers. Fluid dynamics? When two powerful air currents along the floor meet head on, one way the air will go is up. :blush: :tears: :devil: :D :drool:

Gojive
14th-September-2005, 11:35 PM
What have I learnt?

Just how magic and alive, dancing with the right person, to the right track, under the right conditions, can make you feel! :drool:

Lory
15th-September-2005, 08:41 AM
I would add to that - it will always swirl up more when dancing than it ever does in the changing room or when trying it out in front of a mirror (esp when the lead realises this and puts you into lots and lots of spins!)
And I would like the add ... that straight 'slips' worn under said twirly skirts, often get in the way at the most inopportune moments :rolleyes:

CeeCee
15th-September-2005, 09:03 AM
[QUOTE=ducasi]Besides how to dance, what have you learnt from your dancing?

The last two on your list are for me indisputable
Not dancing can make you grumpy. (fact)
Dancing makes you happy. (fact)


Dancing has also taught me:-
1) Humility
2) Time management
3) The power of a smile
4) The reality of magic

Lou
15th-September-2005, 10:22 AM
And I would like the add ... that straight 'slips' worn under said twirly skirts, often get in the way at the most inopportune moments :rolleyes:
:rofl: I have a twirly skirt, with a lining that's not so twirly - and that's caught a certain chap out on a couple of occasions. :innocent: :whistle:

Baby Peaches
15th-September-2005, 11:24 AM
Dancing has also taught me:-
4) The reality of magic


:yeah: I've have just been to Prague and after dancing with my friend, another female (I was leading), a lovely guy asked me to dance. I have to say it was one of the best dances of my life. Before I knew it there was a string of blokes, all different nationalities, asking me to dance and I have to say it was one of the most "magical" nights of my life, especially the dance with the extremely handsome
Italian :drool: . (Sshh don't tell my husband :rofl: ) . Every one of them were amazing dancers!!

All I can say is who needs to communicate with speech when you have the universal language of DANCE!! :flower:

dance cat
15th-September-2005, 01:15 PM
What has dancing taught me?
1 That it is possible to switch my brain off and forget work
2 That there are some fabulous people in the world
3 That there are some really special people I now call friends
4 You get out of dancing what you put in
5 The choice of music at a venue is very important to me
6 It's the best thing to make you feel very happy and very good about yourself :flower:

TiggsTours
15th-September-2005, 01:23 PM
2 That there are some fabulous people in the world
3 That there are some really special people I now call friends

:yeah: Best people in the world, best friends I've ever had!

Jooles
15th-September-2005, 01:35 PM
What have I learnt?

It IS possible to fall in love for three minutes

TiggsTours
15th-September-2005, 01:38 PM
What have I learnt?

It IS possible to fall in love for three minutes
:yeah: Oh, yes!

bigdjiver
15th-September-2005, 03:54 PM
What have I learnt?

It IS possible to fall in love for three minutes :yeah: and several times a night :clap:

Anna
17th-September-2005, 05:36 AM
What has dancing taught me?

1. Always wear sensible knickers under skirts. Always. :whistle:

2. Fake nails really are for people who have lazy hands.

3. Black is my best friend. :D

4. Don't judge a book by its cover - the best dancers are often not the best looking.

5. Practice does make perfect.

6. Standing on your own feet is a really bad, stupid thing to do. :rolleyes:

- A good dancer will practice until they get it right. A great dancer will practice until they never get it wrong. - Adrian Murphy, Creator of "Feet of Flames" (or something like that) and highly inspirational Irish dancing teacher I met when I was about 10.

Andreas
17th-September-2005, 10:36 AM
5. Practice does make perfect.

Good girl :D



- [SIZE=2]A good dancer will practice until they get it right. A great dancer will practice until they never get it wrong. - Adrian Murphy, Creator of "Feet of Flames" (or something like that) and highly inspirational Irish dancing teacher I met when I was about 10.

Flames = Fire
And yes, you can see he lives by those words. For those (most) of you, who don't know Adrian and/or haven't seen any of his performances: He leaves Riverdance and sequels for dead. And I mean it! His choreographies combine a number of influences, among them Maori dance and music. "Feet of Fire" was the only dance performance that I have seen so far the had me pick up my jaw from the floor and mad me shiver in awe.

Andreas
17th-September-2005, 10:40 AM
What have I learnt?

It IS possible to fall in love for three minutes

Too true and I love it every time anew! :D

Baruch
17th-September-2005, 05:04 PM
Besides how to dance, what have you learnt from your dancing?

Dancing is a great form of stress relief.
Dancing is addictive.
A bit of effort can go a long way in improving your dancing.
It beats playing rugby hands down!
Dancing, even with good dancers, can sometimes cause injury or aggravate other injuries.
Dancing with a known yanker is never enjoyable, but especially not when carrying a shoulder injury :sick:

Minnie M
17th-September-2005, 05:26 PM
:yeah: Best people in the world, best friends I've ever had!
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: