what is happening with the C2D DVD, Blackpool 2005?

[Angelina]

Hi there i am writing on behalf of all the organisers of A Chance 2 Dance Ltd. We apologise for all the uncertainty over the last few months with reqard to Chance 2 Dance 2005 DVD - the story goes -

> Martin from Jellybean filmed our event :nice:
> months went by where we were told end of june it will be done, end of july ....etc :whistle:
> We have now been informed by Martin that he doesn't have the time to produce our dvd. :what:
> We have now managed to retrieve the raw footage of our event from martin , we have contacted a number of different people who we hope will be able to help us with the editing side of things (all suggestions welcome)

If anybody reading this has sent their cheque to us for a DVD you have 2 options,
1 - Give us a little more time to get this produced, we are determined! :wink:
2- write to us stating name and address of the person that ordered and request a refund :sad:

We can only apologise again for the time delay with this years DVD, and promise that we will never use Jellybean to film at our event again.

Thank you for your patience,

Angelina

[bigdjiver]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it is Martin McElroy of Jellybean films we are talking about, and is nothing to do with Jellybean productions?

[Angelina]

yes Martin Mcelroy

[Mac]

:tears: A considered response.

Its Mac here from Jellybean Films again :eek: AKA Martin McElroy :eek: :eek: AKA Jellybean Productions. :eek: :eek: :eek: (yes it is one and the same thing) I have to hold up my hands and admit that I am not able to edit the C2D DVD this year :tears: but as usual there is some economy with the truth that needs correcting. :angry:

First the History

C2D originally approached me in 2001 to cover their event. :cheers: They stated that my target costs would be easily exceeded as they were confident that their sales would be well in excess of “250 Units” (Videos as they were back then) Great! :clap: I took three crew up (cost £900 to me) and we recorded the whole event from beginning to end. They took orders of 60. :tears:

Never mind, we have to start somewhere, we all agreed. :rolleyes: ( despite the fact that the edting was essentially done for free and I supplied all the materials for free to! :tears: But one has to speculate to accumulate :what: and besides I enjoyed the event. :worthy: )

Next year we will have to do better! I protested. :eek: We will! came the confident reply! :grin: “We are including the Video in the package next year and anyone who buys an inclusive ticket will get one! :clap: We will definitely have 250 cos that’s the number of tickets reserved.” :clap: :clap:

Great says I! (again) :clap: :nice: Up we ago again with three crew (another £900 out my pocket :tears: ) We filmed it edited it and surprise surprise supplied 250 copies. Great! Everyone’s happy (especially me!) :clap: :cheers: :worthy: :hug:

Ah well not everyone! :blush: Because it was not so cost effective for C2D so they abandoned the idea the following year. :blush: :blush: But I was promised faithfully that they would extensively market the DVD :what: - They forgot, :o :mad: the result was sales of 80 (DVDs as they were by this time) Value to me at £16.00 each (£1280) ….well, it does’nt take einstien to work out that im out of pocket again. :tears: But I was flush that year and was looking after a sick partner long term so I had nothing else to do so I edited it anyway, but with a warning that next year (that’s the one just gone ) would have to be much better as I would not have the luxury of employment protection. :sad: Don’t worry we want you to put in for the work as you know the system and how it all works. :cheers: If you do it again this year we will do everything we can to market the DVD :D (and I also agreed to take someone up whose role would be to promote the DVD- enter the lovely Karen! :drool: )

That brings us up to date we role up again ( (another £900 out my pocket for crew :tears: ) and we all set to work and the C2D Crew did promote the DVD! :worthy: as did our gal but we were still only able to sell 72 units that’s worth just £1004 to me :tears: :tears: ( £14.00 each and that was after a month) I advised the team at that time that the product was not going to be viable. :eek: My advise to Sue T P at that time (April/May) was to tell the customers the truth that the project was not viable and give them their money back. :( They declined :whistle: they really wanted me to honour the DVD and in fact I also really wanted to. :blush: I also advised them that I would definitely not be able to cover the event in the future. :tears:

But the reality is that Blackpool takes 130 hours to edit. That’s three weeks and I was never able to find the three weeks to do it. I advised the team of this repeatedly :( :( and in June when I was approached by Tony at Southport my view was still the same . Tony agreed to up the order to 100 ( at £14.50 each) :D and I said it would make it more viable and that I would give it a go :cheers: But advised them to tell the customers of the situation then :( (obviously they had not) Unfortunately I never was able to find the time. :tears: :tears:

What I was hoping to do at one point was to try to create the C2D DVD on the back of the Ceroc Champs DVD :innocent: :devil: because I thought that, as I had a firm order from them the funds would be sufficient to allow me the time out to do the C2D one :clap: :clap: and its true to say that I bumped Ceroc up the que to get the money in so that I could do it. :blush: Well we all know what happened there! :angry: Go to the take it outside thread to find out if you don’t! I guess that was a big mistake. :blush: :blush:

If im guilty of anything its two things
1 not asking to be paid a separate fee to record the event
2 not telling C2D to stuff it after the first year.

But hey ho Im not like that. :nice: and they are such nice people :worthy: (most of the time :whistle: )Obviously im not a clever business man but I am honest and up front. :o Had C2D been the same with its customers you wouldn’t still be waiting. :angry: I have given the raw footage to them ( even though I didn’t have to ) :nice: and I never asked for the cost of the tapes (12 in all) but hey they did put us up in excellent accommodation! :worthy: :cheers:


C2D are good people running a great event. :worthy: :worthy: :cheers: I was truly proud to be part of it. :clap: :clap:
Im truly sorry to C2D about not completing the DVD. :blush: but they have known about the situation for a very long time. :really:

I also apologise to the 72 people waiting for the DVD. :tears: I truly hope they get it, But you can be sure that C2D wont get anyone to do it for next to nout as they have expected me to do. :sad: Mac

[bigdjiver]

Thanks for the extra info, Martin.

A web search finds 328 results for "Jellybean Productions", maybe all unrelated. I thought it a good idea to get more clarity, before the web crawlers find this thread.

[Mac]

I thought it best after the Ceroc fiasco so sorry for typo's ect. :whistle: I see what you mean about Jellybean Productions ! actually its not really one of my registered names but people get mixed up with the name and its stuck with some people! :rolleyes:

[David Franklin]

If im guilty of anything its two things
1 not asking to be paid a separate fee to record the event
2 not telling C2D to stuff it after the first year.Did I misunderstand, or didn't you also fail to provide the product you said you would?

I'm sorry to be less sympathetic, but at the end of the day you are supposed to be a professional, and part of that is meeting your commitments. (I've worked at a post-production company, and we had jobs we worked 100 hour weeks on and still lost money on. We did not walk away...)

As far as sales go, it seems like all sides need to be more realistic (possibly including the customers). But there's definitely a "vicious circle" problem going on as well; I know there were a lot of people saying "well, what's the point of paying for a Blackpool DVD that doesn't arrive until after Britroc?".

It was also interesting to hear your sales figures in light of the number of problems reported with the DVDs just on this forum. Again, not good for repeat business.

From what you describe, I honestly don't think covering dance competitions is for you. I'm not sure how others make it work, but if they're happy to take on the constraints, I take my hat off to them. I wish you success in your future endeavours.

[David Bailey]

As far as sales go, it seems like all sides need to be more realistic (possibly including the customers).
Sounds like it's sometimes just not a winning proposition to produce commercial-quality DVDs, there isn't the demand to break even.

Getting hi-tech geeky for a second, one possible solution would be for the organisers to provide an online "video album" space for people to download any viddy clips other people may have taken of freestyles etc.? Oh hold on, that's what the Forum's for... :devil:

On the other hand, this won't be the "class review" vids, which I presume is what most people are interested in. And some vids are clearly popular - Camber, for example.

So maybe the answer is better marketing and promotion? I suspect if you don't get enough orders on the weekend, you'll never get enough orders later, so any marketing should be done either before people turn up (e.g. pay £15 extra when you book and you get a DVD of the weekend), or at the weekend itself. Certainly, don't expect people to come up to you and pay you lots of money. Although it would be nice


But there's definitely a "vicious circle" problem going on as well; I know there were a lot of people saying "well, what's the point of paying for a Blackpool DVD that doesn't arrive until after Britroc?".
Absolutely. Which is why, if you get the cash in advance, there's more incentive for the production company to do the work, rather than just taking a punt on a venture which may or may not pay off.

[Angelina]

:tears: A considered response.

Its Mac here from Jellybean Films again :eek: AKA Martin McElroy :eek: :eek: AKA Jellybean Productions. :eek: :eek: :eek: (yes it is one and the same thing) I have to hold up my hands and admit that I am not able to edit the C2D DVD this year :tears: but as usual there is some economy with the truth that needs correcting. :angry:

First the History

C2D originally approached me in 2001 to cover their event. :cheers: They stated that my target costs would be easily exceeded as they were confident that their sales would be well in excess of “250 Units” (Videos as they were back then) Great! :clap: I took three crew up (cost £900 to me) and we recorded the whole event from beginning to end. They took orders of 60. :tears:

Never mind, we have to start somewhere, we all agreed. :rolleyes: ( despite the fact that the edting was essentially done for free and I supplied all the materials for free to! :tears: But one has to speculate to accumulate :what: and besides I enjoyed the event. :worthy: )

Next year we will have to do better! I protested. :eek: We will! came the confident reply! :grin: “We are including the Video in the package next year and anyone who buys an inclusive ticket will get one! :clap: We will definitely have 250 cos that’s the number of tickets reserved.” :clap: :clap:

Great says I! (again) :clap: :nice: Up we ago again with three crew (another £900 out my pocket :tears: ) We filmed it edited it and surprise surprise supplied 250 copies. Great! Everyone’s happy (especially me!) :clap: :cheers: :worthy: :hug:

Ah well not everyone! :blush: Because it was not so cost effective for C2D so they abandoned the idea the following year. :blush: :blush: But I was promised faithfully that they would extensively market the DVD :what: - They forgot, :o :mad: the result was sales of 80 (DVDs as they were by this time) Value to me at £16.00 each (£1280) ….well, it does’nt take einstien to work out that im out of pocket again. :tears: But I was flush that year and was looking after a sick partner long term so I had nothing else to do so I edited it anyway, but with a warning that next year (that’s the one just gone ) would have to be much better as I would not have the luxury of employment protection. :sad: Don’t worry we want you to put in for the work as you know the system and how it all works. :cheers: If you do it again this year we will do everything we can to market the DVD :D (and I also agreed to take someone up whose role would be to promote the DVD- enter the lovely Karen! :drool: )

That brings us up to date we role up again ( (another £900 out my pocket for crew :tears: ) and we all set to work and the C2D Crew did promote the DVD! :worthy: as did our gal but we were still only able to sell 72 units that’s worth just £1004 to me :tears: :tears: ( £14.00 each and that was after a month) I advised the team at that time that the product was not going to be viable. :eek: My advise to Sue T P at that time (April/May) was to tell the customers the truth that the project was not viable and give them their money back. :( They declined :whistle: they really wanted me to honour the DVD and in fact I also really wanted to. :blush: I also advised them that I would definitely not be able to cover the event in the future. :tears:

But the reality is that Blackpool takes 130 hours to edit. That’s three weeks and I was never able to find the three weeks to do it. I advised the team of this repeatedly :( :( and in June when I was approached by Tony at Southport my view was still the same . Tony agreed to up the order to 100 ( at £14.50 each) :D and I said it would make it more viable and that I would give it a go :cheers: But advised them to tell the customers of the situation then :( (obviously they had not) Unfortunately I never was able to find the time. :tears: :tears:

What I was hoping to do at one point was to try to create the C2D DVD on the back of the Ceroc Champs DVD :innocent: :devil: because I thought that, as I had a firm order from them the funds would be sufficient to allow me the time out to do the C2D one :clap: :clap: and its true to say that I bumped Ceroc up the que to get the money in so that I could do it. :blush: Well we all know what happened there! :angry: Go to the take it outside thread to find out if you don’t! I guess that was a big mistake. :blush: :blush:

If im guilty of anything its two things
1 not asking to be paid a separate fee to record the event
2 not telling C2D to stuff it after the first year.

But hey ho Im not like that. :nice: and they are such nice people :worthy: (most of the time :whistle: )Obviously im not a clever business man but I am honest and up front. :o Had C2D been the same with its customers you wouldn’t still be waiting. :angry: I have given the raw footage to them ( even though I didn’t have to ) :nice: and I never asked for the cost of the tapes (12 in all) but hey they did put us up in excellent accommodation! :worthy: :cheers:


C2D are good people running a great event. :worthy: :worthy: :cheers: I was truly proud to be part of it. :clap: :clap:
Im truly sorry to C2D about not completing the DVD. :blush: but they have known about the situation for a very long time. :really:

I also apologise to the 72 people waiting for the DVD. :tears: I truly hope they get it, But you can be sure that C2D wont get anyone to do it for next to nout as they have expected me to do. :sad: Mac

Martin, both you and i know the truth about what has happened between us, we also have evidence to prove this. When you make allegations as above you are forcing us to go down a legal route. Please try to be professional about this and not air your dirty washing in public. I posted this threat originally for information, not to get at you.

If you wish to discuss this further i suggest you call me

[David Franklin]

Sounds like it's sometimes just not a winning proposition to produce commercial-quality DVDs, there isn't the demand to break even.Thumbs Up (http://www.thumbsupvideo.com/) seem to be thriving in the states, even on events with considerably smaller numbers than Blackpool. But they charge more and the videos are probably easier to produce (most footage is spotlight format). On t'other hand, the quality is first rate.

My thoughts: Given only 100 or so people buy the video, it would be interesting to look at who they actually are. In particular, how many sales would you lose if you dropped the early rounds of DWAS and Intermediate? I'm guessing there's a lot of camera/editing work there for very little final reward. (I'd also suspect a lot of people who buy the video to see themselves in DWAS 1st round end up disappointed - it's a lot of money for maybe 10 seconds of footage!).

Next, does anyone really care about flashy menus and effects? The DVDs I have from the states are decidedly weak on the menus and chaptering; it is slightly irritating, but the quality of the footage itself makes up for it.

My general feeling is there a lot of effort being wasted on things the purchasers don't care about, and not enough on things they do (clear footage, sound in sync, correct discs being sent out). Also, to be successful, you need to be able to produce the DVD quickly. Not only because of the instant gratification for the punters, but because you can't afford to be spending weeks and weeks making the DVD - the financial payoff just isn't there.

[Clive Long]

<< snip >>
My thoughts: Given only 100 or so people buy the video, it would be interesting to look at who they actually are. In particular, how many sales would you lose if you dropped the early rounds of DWAS and Intermediate? I'm guessing there's a lot of camera/editing work there for very little final reward. (I'd also suspect a lot of people who buy the video to see themselves in DWAS 1st round end up disappointed - it's a lot of money for maybe 10 seconds of footage!).

All I can say is, from the perspective of a punter is :yeah:

I buy the Camber DVD because I use it as a reminder/teaching aid - and do use it occassionally
Edit: As pointed out already, weekender and competition videos are really different products in the same package.

I feel DavidF is spot on, I wouldn't pay £5 let alone £15 for a DVD that featured 10 seconds of me in a comp.


Next, does anyone really care about flashy menus and effects? The DVDs I have from the states are decidedly weak on the menus and chaptering; it is slightly irritating, but the quality of the footage itself makes up for it.

My general feeling is there a lot of effort being wasted on things the purchasers don't care about, and not enough on things they do (clear footage, sound in sync, correct discs being sent out).

Again, from the perspective of what I would want from such a thing :yeah:
The sections of the DVD that didn't feature ME, I would expect to have the qualities listed by David, not something that resembled a shaky video of a kids party.

Maybe the people thinking of producing such videos (oops, DVDs) could see if DavidF's view is generally held and that delivering to such standards would make the production of "commemorative" DVDs simpler, cheaper and quicker.

Clive

EDIT: I suppose it comes down to - if you did change the format and content to make production simpler and cheaper would you actually sell any more? Are most of the customers those people who reach the semis or the finals? That info might help in estimating the potential sales.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Next, does anyone really care about flashy menus and effects? The DVDs I have from the states are decidedly weak on the menus and chaptering; it is slightly irritating, but the quality of the footage itself makes up for it.


No amount of flashy effects or fancy editing will make up for dodgy or missing footage. For dance videos the footage needs to be even better than normal. The only people who are going to buy videos like this are people interested in dancing - they want to see maximum dancing and footage of them if they took part - a camera pointing at one edge of the floor for 3/4 of a song will not cut it, especially if you were on the other side ;)

[robd]

Thumbs Up (http://www.thumbsupvideo.com/) seem to be thriving in the states, even on events with considerably smaller numbers than Blackpool.

Check this little preview clip [requires Quicktime] (http://www.thumbsupvideo.com/benjiheidi-1m.mov) on their site. Great moves. :clap:

[David Franklin]

Check this little preview clip [requires Quicktime] (http://www.thumbsupvideo.com/benjiheidi-1m.mov) on their site. Great moves. :clap:But hardly an indicator of filming quality. The attached picture is a full res capture from one of their DVDs.

[Mac]

I have nothing to hide Angelina and nothing to lose either. Yes we all know the truth and sorry but reading your post its pretty clear to me that you are getting at me. As always emails will be reproduced if necessary( going back over the last four years!) . If you want to keep the dirty washing inside can I suggest you PM me in future? Mac

[El Salsero Gringo]

But hardly an indicator of filming quality. The attached picture is a full res capture from one of their DVDs.Something's been troubling me about this whole mess. I can't for the life of me fathom why anyone would take on the job of producing such a DVD when previous sales (60, 80 copies) meant that it was a dead-cert loss maker.

Equally I can't understand how any responsible business could take on a supplier knowing 100% (and if they didn't know, then they should have known) that the supplier was going to lose money.

I'm sure there's a reasonable answer somewhere, but I can't see it.

[Mac]

Martin, both you and i know the truth about what has happened between us, we also have evidence to prove this. When you make allegations as above you are forcing us to go down a legal route. Please try to be professional about this and not air your dirty washing in public. I posted this threat originally for information, not to get at you.

If you wish to discuss this further i suggest you call me

Have you heard of the term Feudian Slip Angelina. Im sure you were thinking threat and meaning to say thread. Mac :devil:

[El Salsero Gringo]

Have you heard of the term Feudian Slip Angelina....you were saying?

[Mac]

exactly !

[Angelina]

QUOTE=martin McElroy]Have you heard of the term Feudian Slip Angelina. Im sure you were thinking threat and meaning to say thread. Mac :devil:[/QUOTE]

Attention to detail eh?[ :whistle:

[Mac]

QUOTE=martin McElroy]Have you heard of the term Feudian Slip Angelina. Im sure you were thinking threat and meaning to say thread. Mac :devil:

Attention to detail eh?[ :whistle:[/QUOTE]


My point exactly. Have a good week end! :flower:

[CJ]

I think the point was, Mac, tha Angelina's use of threat was Freudian and not Feudian.

However, your pattern of petty point scoring is duly noted.

You'll fit right in, here!! :wink:

[Dreadful Scathe]

Something's been troubling me about this whole mess. I can't for the life of me fathom why anyone would take on the job of producing such a DVD when previous sales (60, 80 copies) meant that it was a dead-cert loss maker.

Yup. Doesnt make a whole lot of sense.



Equally I can't understand how any responsible business could take on a supplier knowing 100% (and if they didn't know, then they should have known) that the supplier was going to lose money.


I dont understand how it came down to this. Surely Jellybean films had some sort of contract as regards payment, if so shame on C2D for not paying the invoice or buying the DVDs they promised. If there was no such arrangement, shame on Jellybean for running the risk of losing money and damaging their business - its not up to c2d to organise someone elses business.

If this is just down to bickering over "who said what" then shame on both of them for not keeping better records of what was agreed.

[Chicklet]

I'm sure there's a reasonable answer somewhere, but I can't see it.

Abandon "official" recording and allow attendees to record their own footage on personal equipment?

Leave the "you agree to be recorded" element in the contract for competitors and/or attendees and even try asking for £5 in a charidy mate bucket for people bringing in their own cameras?

just askin....

then get DS to throw a party for local chums to bring their footage round to his tehcnical emporium and he can make up a big-un :devil:

[El Salsero Gringo]

its not up to c2d to organise someone elses business.Moving on from the particular, to the general (I expect Jellybean and C2D might both want to retire to lick their wounds) it doesn't strike me as a good idea in business to go into a contract with a supplier when you know they're going to lose money - unless there are very special circumstances, like they're chasing a bigger order on the back of it or something like that. It smacks of taking advantage, and aside from any ethical consideration, it more-or-less guarantees you a bad job or no job at all.

[David Franklin]

Abandon "official" recordingI think that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. To be the best of my knowledge, the videoing for WSM and Britroc works out very well. Certainly I've heard near universal praise from the customers.

I think it's probably harder (and more expensive) to video at Blackpool/Ceroc, but on the other hand you have more potential customers. I find it hard to believe it's impossible to produce a profitable video for these events, but maybe I'm wrong.

and allow attendees to record their own footage on personal equipment?I've suggested this myself, but apparently there are copyright issues. In the states, some competitions have an extra charge for a "video pass" that allows you to film, but I don't know what the legalities are.

[Mac]

I think the point was, Mac, tha Angelina's use of threat was Freudian and not Feudian.

However, your pattern of petty point scoring is duly noted.

You'll fit right in, here!! :wink:


Um ...My use of the word feudian as appossed to the name freudian was intended to emphasis that point ! (bad idea !:rolleyes: )

and on the point of making profit from the DVDs of events is that WSM and Britroc dont expect to make a porift for themselves (I stand corrected if im wrong) whereas Ceroc needed to mark up to cover VAT etc and Blackpool wanted to mark up 100%. To be fair Ceroc did state that they would forgoe any mark up, but on 35 copies, that is no compensation for what was supposed to be a 400 copy deal :mad:

C2D and I never got round to discussing the possibility of allowing me to keep all the proceeds from their orders.They did up the order though but again it still would have been well short of the mark. :sad:

and no, there was no contract between C2D and I, and for my sins I never qouted a minimum order. two mistakes I will never be making again! :blush:

[Mac]

:tears: :worthy:
Um ...My use of the word feudian as appossed to the name freudian was intended to emphasis that point ! (bad idea !:rolleyes: )

and on the point of making profit from the DVDs of events is that WSM and Britroc dont expect to make a porift for themselves (I stand corrected if im wrong) whereas Ceroc needed to mark up to cover VAT etc and Blackpool wanted to mark up 100%. To be fair Ceroc did state that they would forgoe any mark up, but on 35 copies, that is no compensation for what was supposed to be a 400 copy deal :mad:

C2D and I never got round to discussing the possibility of allowing me to keep all the proceeds from their orders.They did up the order though but again it still would have been well short of the mark. :sad:

and no, there was no contract between C2D and I, and for my sins I never qouted a minimum order. two mistakes I will never be making again! :blush:


OK Ive just had a call from those nice people at C2D :worthy: It seems Ive upset them by letting out the fact that they mark up 100%. Ive been asked to post an apology for this error. which I now do un conditionally :flower: :flower: :flower: :tears: Except to say that if you start something in a public forum you can only expect to get a public reaction. I feel that I deserve the right to defend myself if I feel that Ive been misrepresented as I do in this case. However I never wanted to offend anyone so SORRY!!!! :tears:

[El Salsero Gringo]

It seems Ive upset them by letting out the fact that they mark up 100%.What did they think anyone would have guessed the markup to be? 100% sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[Angelina]

The things you are saying Martin are so untrue.. i am not going into any more discussions with you about this

Angelina
C2D

[Jive Brummie]

Out of all of this the only thing that really surprises me is that so few people are prepared to shell out a couple of quid for what ultimately is a really good account of what's always a great event.

Video or DVD footage of other people or yourselves, IMO has got to be one of the best sources of inspiration for your own/partners dancing, and more importantly is a permanent record so you can always go back to look again, over and over...

You can guarantee that you'll pick up some great moves, see different styles and see the very best dancers all on one dvd or vid.

So, stop being so tight fisted and pay an average price for a quality bit of kit...

James...

[Dazzle]

So, stop being so tight fisted and pay an average price for a quality bit of kit...

James...

Amen Brother!

Many say the DVD/Video (not formatist!) is for those who compete to have a record of it. It's way more than that! You can't see everyone else when you are concentrating on your dance. You can see on the DVD/video what they are doing, pick up tips, hints and performance help for next time. See why they progressed/won and ou didn't. I have got loads of style tips and new moves from them. I even try to buy the ones from events I haven't even been to for the same reason. Can also use them to tach from too or adapt moves from to create your own.

I will be very disappointed if I don't have a record from Blackpool 2005, my first real competition! Please, please can we have something, anything? :flower:

Darren

[Angelina]

Amen Brother!

Many say the DVD/Video (not formatist!) is for those who compete to have a record of it. It's way more than that! You can't see everyone else when you are concentrating on your dance. You can see on the DVD/video what they are doing, pick up tips, hints and performance help for next time. See why they progressed/won and ou didn't. I have got loads of style tips and new moves from them. I even try to buy the ones from events I haven't even been to for the same reason. Can also use them to tach from too or adapt moves from to create your own.

I will be very disappointed if I don't have a record from Blackpool 2005, my first real competition! Please, please can we have something, anything? :flower:

Darren

The raw footage is with a new editor as we speak :clap: - as soon as we hear more i will let you know

Angie

[David Franklin]

Out of all of this the only thing that really surprises me is that so few people are prepared to shell out a couple of quid for what ultimately is a really good account of what's always a great event.

Video or DVD footage of other people or yourselves, IMO has got to be one of the best sources of inspiration for your own/partners dancing, and more importantly is a permanent record so you can always go back to look again, over and over...

You can guarantee that you'll pick up some great moves, see different styles and see the very best dancers all on one dvd or vid.This is all a lot less true than it used to be.

Video of myself dancing? Got tons of it. Camcorders are common these days.
See the best dancers? True. But there's a lot of overlap between the comps as far as that goes. As I have a DVD of Britroc (which notably arrived promptly and without "issues"), I've got less to gain by getting a DVD of, say Blackpool.
Picking up moves and style? True again, but my preference is to steal from outside of MJ - at least that way people might think I'm original rather than a copy.
A good account? Expectations change. I'm no longer going to be amazed by seeing myself for 15 seconds in the corner of some out-of-focus footage. Some of the best footage I have of my dancing was taken with a hand held camcorder. The competition footage is a long way down the list.

As for value for money - the DVDs I've enjoyed the most have all been compilations over several years of competition. Although it cost £50+ for a single DVD, I thought the "20 Years of the US Open" DVD was excellent value. Maybe it's time for the C2D organisers to consider bringing one out.

[Mac]

The things you are saying Martin are so untrue.. i am not going into any more discussions with you about this

Angelina
C2D
Angelina, I dont know why you are keeping this up! Tony phoned me at 11 30 pm the other night complaining about the post I had just put on. Whats not true about that?? :what: As for not discussing it any more, I didnt want to discuss it with you in the first place! as Ive said you chose to use a public forum to discuss it and as long as you use a public forum to state your case against me I have to use the same public forum to defend myself. :what: At any rate im surprised your involved at all as I thought Sue TP was the reference coontact in these matters? :confused: The balls in your court at the end of the day but im sorry you feel this way Again can I suggest you either PM or e mail me with future discussions because this is beginning to feel like harrassment now:tears:

[Dan Hudson]

angelina- martin- *banging heads together smiley*

fix it in private- bored now......................... :sad:

At the end of the day, if neither of you had the business acumen to tie each other up in written contracts then you deserve everything you get, unfortunately its us the general punters who have to deal with the fall out. :angry:

[Mac]

angelina- martin- *banging heads together smiley*

fix it in private- bored now......................... :sad:

At the end of the day, if neither of you had the business acumen to tie each other up in written contracts then you deserve everything you get, unfortunately its us the general punters who have to deal with the fall out. :angry:

In my recent experience getting stuff in writing isnt worth the paper its written on! :mad: But you do have a good point sorry :blush:

[bigdjiver]

In my recent experience getting stuff in writing isnt worth the paper its written on! :mad: But you do have a good point sorry :blush:In my experience, and not a comment on this case: a written contract is useless if the sums involved are not worth the time and expense of going to court, or if you do not have the money to sue, or if there is a "man of straw" involved (eg a disposable limited company), or if there is blame both sides, or ...

In general: Move on, "smarting, but smarter".

[Donna]

Martin, both you and i know the truth about what has happened between us, we also have evidence to prove this. When you make allegations as above you are forcing us to go down a legal route. Please try to be professional about this and not air your dirty washing in public. I posted this threat originally for information, not to get at you.

If you wish to discuss this further i suggest you call me


On reading all this I'm surprised that Ducasi didn't ask someone to bring out the popcorn!!!

[ducasi]

On reading all this I'm surprised that Ducasi didn't ask someone to bring out the popcorn!!!
Well that's normally LMC's job... And after what happened the last time I mentioned pop-corn, I figured I'd stay well away from these sorts of skirmishes. :whistle:

[LMC]

Well that's normally LMC's job... And after what happened the last time I mentioned pop-corn, I figured I'd stay well away from these sorts of skirmishes. :whistle:
Nah, I only offer popcorn on interesting arguments... :devil:

[Tiggerbabe]

I sent an e-mail off to the Chance2Dance team (sent on the 1st Jan) and received a reply this morning, which states they have been unable to resolve the DVD issues and therefore DO NOT have a DVD of the 2005 competition. A cheque is to be sent out with my refund.

So anyone else who's not yet asked for their money back, I'd advise you to contact the team now.

[Donna]

I sent an e-mail off to the Chance2Dance team (sent on the 1st Jan) and received a reply this morning, which states they have been unable to resolve the DVD issues and therefore DO NOT have a DVD of the 2005 competition. A cheque is to be sent out with my refund.

So anyone else who's not yet asked for their money back, I'd advise you to contact the team now.

Awwww! Oh well, we didn't do to good at that comp anyway, but I've only just recieved my Ceroc 2005 DVD and Leroc 2005 which we came third in both. So don't really need the Blackpool one.

Any one who wants a copy of Ceroc 2005...ask Martin McElroy. He's ya man!

[Jive Brummie]

Hands up all those who're taking a video camera this year!

j.

[TheTramp]

Hands up all those who're taking a video camera this year!
:yeah:

Good points James....!!

[HITMAN]

Fear not the Hitman's been booked to film the 2006 event :wink: so you can expect this years Dvd to be out within 28 days from the event.:clap: Just like the Weston-super-mare event I shall be producing the following, disc one will be Take A Chance, disc two will be Intermediate, disc three will be Advanced & Seniors, disc four Spotlight & Air Steps, disc five will be Team Cabaret & Double Trouble, subject of course to numbers in each event. Each disc will be two hours long and include all rounds, finals and presentations. So if you've entered Take a chance, Intermediate and Seniors you could just order discs 1-2-3 which saves you money instead of having all five discs and of course two discs which you do not appear on.

SO PLEASE DO NOT BRING YOUR OWN VIDEO CAMERA!:mad:

Steve 'The Hitman' Strong
www.jivevideo.co.uk

[Donna]

[QUOTE=HITMAN]Fear not the Hitman's been booked to film the 2006 event :wink: so you can expect this years Dvd to be out within 28 days from the event.:clap:

Oh yes, you have to trust him on this! Most probably the only guy EVER to get things done on time! :rofl: :wink:


Just like the Weston-super-mare event I shall be producing the following, disc one will be Take A Chance, disc two will be Intermediate, disc three will be Advanced & Seniors, disc four Spotlight & Air Steps, disc five will be Team Cabaret & Double Trouble, subject of course to numbers in each event.

You see? He's just got it all planned out already!


So if you've entered Take a chance, Intermediate and Seniors you could just order discs 1-2-3 which saves you money instead of having all five discs and of course two discs which you do not appear on.

Bloomin marvellous!

[Born2bwild]

I sent an e-mail off to the Chance2Dance team (sent on the 1st Jan) and received a reply this morning, which states they have been unable to resolve the DVD issues and therefore DO NOT have a DVD of the 2005 competition. A cheque is to be sent out with my refund.

So anyone else who's not yet asked for their money back, I'd advise you to contact the team now.

Yes, I sent an email in early December asking what was happening with the DVD, and have also just received a reply saying that there won't be one :sad: .

I performed in the Abba Antics team in the competition and I’m very disappointed that no DVD will be available of our performance. I also know that the Spotlight winners will be very disappointed.

Personally I don't care about the ins and outs of why a video/DVD isn't being produced, and I think it should remain a private matter between the event organisers and production company anyway (even more so having read this thread :sad: ). These events have been running for many years now so the logistics and costs should be fairly predictable. If a video/DVD of the event is offered then MAKE IT HAPPEN, even if it incurs a loss on that aspect of the event. If there are any reservations about capability, time, having to subsidise the filming, or potentially upsetting customers, then DON'T BOTHER, and simply invite people to bring their own cameras instead. At least we'll all know what to expect.

Let's hope C2D & Hitman will be a better partnership this year. Haven't decided whether to take a camera myself yet. If I do well in any of the competitons then I probably will :wink: .

Born2bwild

[TheTramp]

Have to say that I don't quite see why people are still flogging a dead horse....

If the sales are as bad as reported, then I also don't see why Steve (who, it has to be said, always produces good quality stuff, to a good timescale) would even want to take it on?

Why not just let everyone take in a video camera, then they can shoot themselves (or anyone that they actually WANT to see dancing), rather than having a 20 second slot of themselves (if they are lucky) on a video/DVD that they have to pay a reasonable sum of money (least, it is to a student) for.

Given that so far, it sounds like the people running the competition have made nothing, and received nothing but aggravation over the whole video thing, I don't see why they don't cut their losses, and not bother with it. I'd even pay £5 (say) to be allowed to do my own filming. If 100 people did that, they'd make far more money than they ever apparently have with professional crew.

Maybe it should be a question of what the people paying to go to the competition want.....??

[David Franklin]

Given that so far, it sounds like the people running the competition have made nothing, and received nothing but aggravation over the whole video thing, I don't see why they don't cut their losses, and not bother with it. I'd even pay £5 (say) to be allowed to do my own filming. If 100 people did that, they'd make far more money than they ever apparently have with professional crew.It seems a logical solution, but the organisers have said that it's not actually legal to allow members of the general public to video. (Copyright issues, I think).

Of course, you are in a far better position than I am to decide whether that is a valid excuse...

[Mary]

Fear not the Hitman's been booked to film the 2006 event :wink: so you can expect this years Dvd to be out within 28 days from the event.:clap: Just like the Weston-super-mare event I shall be producing the following, disc one will be Take A Chance, disc two will be Intermediate, disc three will be Advanced & Seniors, disc four Spotlight & Air Steps, disc five will be Team Cabaret & Double Trouble, subject of course to numbers in each event. Each disc will be two hours long and include all rounds, finals and presentations. So if you've entered Take a chance, Intermediate and Seniors you could just order discs 1-2-3 which saves you money instead of having all five discs and of course two discs which you do not appear on.

SO PLEASE DO NOT BRING YOUR OWN VIDEO CAMERA!:mad:

Steve 'The Hitman' Strong
www.jivevideo.co.uk

This is excellent news. Steve produces a reasonable product in very good time. Given that it is impossible to shoot everone all of the time in their heats, he does manage to get the closest thing to it. Can't remember if Steve did Britrock 2004 but the addition of a high, wide-angle shot on everything was really useful, so you could see the panning/selective shots throughout, and then a separate run on the high/wide. I found this really useful.

I find videoing stuff myself is a bit of a pain in the neck so am quite happy to pay for someone else to do all the work and I can enjoy watching for real instead of on a weeny viewing screen.

M

[TheTramp]

It seems a logical solution, but the organisers have said that it's not actually legal to allow members of the general public to video. (Copyright issues, I think).

Of course, you are in a far better position than I am to decide whether that is a valid excuse...

Probably not :sick:

Think I must have missed that. Was it when I was taking a break? Or is my memory just faulty?

On what grounds are they challenging the legality of people using a video camera on copyright grounds? It's a public performance. And how can it be legal for someone they say is allowed to video it, and not legal for someone else that they say (if they were to say that videoing is allowed by the general public) is allowed. Ie. If it's illegal, then it's illegal. Which means that no-one can video it. And if they can give permission to get around that illegality to someone, then they can give permission to everyone....

Will wait until I see the legislation that they propose makes it illegal before commenting futher....

[David Bailey]

On what grounds are they challenging the legality of people using a video camera on copyright grounds? It's a public performance. And how can it be legal for someone they say is allowed to video it, and not legal for someone else that they say (if they were to say that videoing is allowed by the general public) is allowed. Ie. If it's illegal, then it's illegal. Which means that no-one can video it. And if they can give permission to get around that illegality to someone, then they can give permission to everyone....

Most of these type of events and weekenders seem to have a standard "your picture / vid may be taken for publicity purposes" clause in the terms and conditions, which I believe serves the purpose of the waiver members of the public sign if they're shown on TV.

I don't think this clause specifically says anything about who is taking the pictures / vids - so presumably, anything authorised by the organisers would be legal. I don't think the video takers have to sign any particular legal document, or have to be officially approved by anyone apart from the organisers, do they?

You might have to get organiser approval of pics / vids I guess, which could be a pain. I certainly wouldn't want to sit through X hours of "and this is another video of me" - it'd be like sitting through holiday photos X 1,500 :eek:

But I think a blanket "It's illegal" statement sounds fishy. "It's too much hassle" may be more accurate.

[David Franklin]

On what grounds are they challenging the legality of people using a video camera on copyright grounds? It's a public performance. And how can it be legal for someone they say is allowed to video it, and not legal for someone else that they say (if they were to say that videoing is allowed by the general public) is allowed. Ie. If it's illegal, then it's illegal. Which means that no-one can video it. And if they can give permission to get around that illegality to someone, then they can give permission to everyone....I think at least one issue is that by videoing someone dancing to music, you are breaking music copyright. A properly licensed videographer is exempt from this (or more accurately, part of his license fee pays for a waiver). It's definitely not all a complete invention of the organisers - I know when we had our wedding videoed we were told we could have anyone do it, but they would have to get a license.

As for when this came up, sorry, but I'm not sure - probably in the thread where everyone was more than a little disappointed in the 2003 (I think) Blackpool video where the audio/video where completely out of sync. (The forum search engine always behaves so badly these days that I can't bring myself to look for it!)

[TheTramp]

I don't think this clause specifically says anything about who is taking the pictures / vids - so presumably, anything authorised by the organisers would be legal.

Exactly my point. (And I've given up being worried that you're agreeing with me - and vice versa now).

I don't see that there would be any need for anyone to be going through the clips either. What would they be looking to approve/disapprove?

And while Steve does do excellent work (I do already have several examples), mostly, I want to see what I did. Or usually, more accurately, what I did wrong. Rather than watching lots of other people doing things right. :what:

[TheTramp]

I think at least one issue is that by videoing someone dancing to music, you are breaking music copyright.

Ah. That'd possibly make more sense....

However, I don't see that it would be at all enforceable in reality, if that were the case. If you video anything, anytime there's music playing, in effect then, you'd be breaking music copyright - ie. videoing practise sessions, videoing the Radio 1 Road Show, videoing anytime there's music playing in the background etc.... Including your wedding I guess. Oops. And I guess I broke copyright, videoing your showcase at the BFG too then....

[David Franklin]

Ah. That'd possibly make more sense....

However, I don't see that it would be at all enforceable in reality, if that were the case. If you video anything, anytime there's music playing, in effect then, you'd be breaking music copyright - ie. videoing practise sessions, videoing the Radio 1 Road Show, videoing anytime there's music playing in the background etc.... Including your wedding I guess. Oops. And I guess I broke copyright, videoing your showcase at the BFG too then....Except the guy at our wedding was properly licensed!

I would think you could argue "fair use" for most of the other things, but I'd be slightly nervy at the stage where I was selling a product which included copyrighted music. Of course, for the kinds of sums and volumes we're talking, anyone prosecuting would have to be extremely petty and happy to look like a complete killjoy and bully (sounds just like the RIAA, doesn't it?). In the extreme, I'm darned certain you couldn't use a copyrighted track in a block buster movie without making specific arrangements. (I might be wrong, but I'm certain!).

[TheTramp]

Except the guy at our wedding was properly licensed!

I would think you could argue "fair use" for most of the other things, but I'd be slightly nervy at the stage where I was selling a product which included copyrighted music. Of course, for the kinds of sums and volumes we're talking, anyone prosecuting would have to be extremely petty and happy to look like a complete killjoy and bully (sounds just like the RIAA, doesn't it?). In the extreme, I'm darned certain you couldn't use a copyrighted track in a block buster movie without making specific arrangements. (I might be wrong, but I'm certain!).

No. You're totally right about that. I imagine that it'd cost a LOT of money to use a track in a movie. It cost $100 for the track that was used on my DVD, and that was something that someone had written, and would never be released anywhere....

On the other hand, I think that in the case of self-videoing at Blackpool, we (I) was actually talking about making a video for my own use, and not for selling....

[ElaineB]

This is excellent news. Steve produces a reasonable product in very good time. Given that it is impossible to shoot everone all of the time in their heats, he does manage to get the closest thing to it. Can't remember if Steve did Britrock 2004 but the addition of a high, wide-angle shot on everything was really useful, so you could see the panning/selective shots throughout, and then a separate run on the high/wide. I found this really useful.

I find videoing stuff myself is a bit of a pain in the neck so am quite happy to pay for someone else to do all the work and I can enjoy watching for real instead of on a weeny viewing screen.

M


Yes Mary, he did film Britrock 2004 and again, it was a good quality video! He also got the W-S-M one out in the time scales quoted and it has to be the best production so far.

Glad he's been booked for Blackpool this year. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Elaine

[Donna]

[QUOTE=David Franklin]It seems a logical solution, but the organisers have said that it's not actually legal to allow members of the general public to video. (Copyright issues, I think).


Same rules apply taking video cams into freestyle venues as well you know?! It's so strict out there!

[Donna]

[QUOTE=ElaineB]Yes Mary, he did film Britrock 2004 and again, it was a good quality video! He also got the W-S-M one out in the time scales quoted and it has to be the best production so far.

:yeah: I can say the same thing! He should do Ceroc as well.

[TheTramp]

Same rules apply taking video cams into freestyle venues as well you know?! It's so strict out there!

Sorry Donna. I disagree here. (There's a surprise, eh! :wink: ). I'd say that it's for different reasons.

Not allowing the taking of video cameras into freestyle events, is to protect the people that may be there, that don't want to be on camera. It is kind of intrusive and offputting. Though, occasionally, I still see it being done.

When you're in a competition, you de facto waive that right. However, personally, if I was filming, I would mostly be filming my friends (who would want to be filmed!), or having someone film me. Which would be different to the general filming of everyone, who I generally wouldn't want to watch again.

This post, not taking into account the music copyright discussion.

[David Franklin]

Sorry Donna. I disagree here. (There's a surprise, eh! :wink: ). I'd say that it's for different reasons.

Not allowing the taking of video cameras into freestyle events, is to protect the people that may be there, that don't want to be on camera. It is kind of intrusive and offputting. Though, occasionally, I still see it being done.

When you're in a competition, you de facto waive that right. However, personally, if I was filming, I would mostly be filming my friends (who would want to be filmed!), or having someone film me. Which would be different to the general filming of everyone, who I generally wouldn't want to watch again.Agree about the difference between normal freestyle and competition. The following quote (http://www.robebo.co.uk/faq.htm) relates to weddings, but probably gives an idea of what's regarded as acceptible:

Anyone has the right not to be recorded on film or video. However, the Data Protection Registrar has indicated that, by attending an event such as a wedding, the person should reasonably expect to be recorded and it is up to them to stay out of the field of view of the camera. We place a notice prominently at the main entrance to all venues so that guests are aware that the event is being recorded and it is up to them to let us know if they wish to be excluded and for them to make their own arrangements to avoid the camera.
As far as the copyright goes, here's something else I found on the web (http://www.ajs-associates.com/wedding-video-information.html): (emphasis mine)

Most people do not realise that you need licences to record a service at a church, or record their relatives dancing at the reception disco. To do so with out a licence can mean you are in breach of copyright, which carries a stiff penalty. This even means Aunt Mabel armed with her Handy-cam. We hold all three MCPS/CCL / PPL licences should the event require them. We have been praised by the MCPS for our understanding of the licensing laws and our consideration of handling these licences on behalf of our customers. Most other companies simply put a disclaimer requiring their client to obtain the licences. We believe you have enough to worry about, so we do this for you charging you only for the cost of the licenses. All our media carry PPL authenticity Holograms.
Of course, professional videographers have somewhat of a vested interest in portraying home videoing as a major threat to western civilisation!

[HITMAN]

Originally Posted by Mary
This is excellent news. Steve produces a reasonable product in very good time. Given that it is impossible to shoot everone all of the time in their heats, he does manage to get the closest thing to it. Can't remember if Steve did Britrock 2004 but the addition of a high, wide-angle shot on everything was really useful, so you could see the panning/selective shots throughout, and then a separate run on the high/wide. I found this really useful.

I find videoing stuff myself is a bit of a pain in the neck so am quite happy to pay for someone else to do all the work and I can enjoy watching for real instead of on a weeny viewing screen.

Just to clarify I have not produced a Britrock Dvd this has been done by Glenn Pavey, however I was the cameraman on that day that Mary mentions above giving the addition of a high, wide-angle shot.

Regarding the subject of filming at these type of events and including Camber/Bognor I pay a fee to the Mechanical-Copyright Protection Society Limited (MCPS for short) to film at these events I also pay a fee to the Phonographic Performance Limited (PPL for short). A chance to Dance Ltd has booked me to film their event in Blackpool and in doing so giving me sole rights to shoot and produce the Dvd.

To pay for staff, travel, licences, materials, and editing time I need as many orders as possible, on top of that the organisers need to see a return as well, so for competitors/friends to do their own private filming, only reduces the amount of orders/profit. Filming along with djing is my full-time business and I need the support of you to buy the product in order for me to continue in the future. With technology moving so fast HD is just around the corner, we already have the cameras and tv out on the high street and soon we will be able to put this onto disc, however this costs money to upgrade and this is where your support comes in. In the meantime I offer a fast turnaround and reasonable product.

Finally filming the event is differcult, like djing at a party you can't please everybody, some want close up's others the full view, I try for a combination of both, my only advise is stay fairly central and the cameras will catch you as will the judges eye, stray off to the sides to much and both of us will miss you!

Steve.

[David Franklin]

To pay for staff, travel, licences, materials, and editing time I need as many orders as possible, on top of that the organisers need to see a return as well, so for competitors/friends to do their own private filming, only reduces the amount of orders/profit. Filming along with djing is my full-time business and I need the support of you to buy the product in order for me to continue in the future.

Finally filming the event is differcult, like djing at a party you can't please everybody, some want close up's others the full view, I try for a combination of both, my only advise is stay fairly central and the cameras will catch you as will the judges eye, stray off to the sides to much and both of us will miss you!Legailities aside, what I'd like to see is C2D (or other organisers) to allow competitors to film if they also pay for the DVD. I think very few look to film themselves because "it's cheaper". By getting someone to specifically video them, they maximise the footage of their own performance, they have control of that footage and they also get the feedback nearly instantly, rather than having to wait. (Seemingly for ever, in the case of the 2005 DVD).

Now in past years the C2D organisers have said "No, you can't use a video camera. You'll have to trust us to produce a good and timely DVD". Obviously this is no reflection on yourself, but sadly, that trust has been misplaced on multiple occasions. You can understand that people will not be willing to leave it all to "chance" this time after last years' fiasco.

I do appreciate one video camera can video many couples' performances. But one PC can make many DVD copies as well. (Sadly, apart from the DVD you produced at Britroc, I have had to make copies of every MJ DVD I bought in order to get a copy that plays reliably and without glitching). I do think, generally, most competitors are honest and willing to pay an agreed fee to get the right to film without abusing that right. And those that aren't would just copy the DVD anyway!

As I foretold a while ago - small digital cameras that can record several minutes of high quality video are now commonplace. So I'm not sure this is a battle the organisers can realistically win for much longer. You are going to see a lot of people sneak in video-capable systems at C2D 2006.

[Donna]

Not allowing the taking of video cameras into freestyle events, is to protect the people that may be there, that don't want to be on camera. It is kind of intrusive and offputting. Though, occasionally, I still see it being done.

I can understand that and there have been times where me and steve had wanted to take the vid cam into a venue just to film ourselves in preparation for competition but unfortunately we're still unable to do it. Unless of course there is an empty room nearby where you can still here the music and film then but you'd be very lucky to get that.

[Donna]

my only advise is stay fairly central and the cameras will catch you as will the judges eye, stray off to the sides to much and both of us will miss you!

This is why I keep telling my Steve NEVER EVER to take the edge of the dance floor. We have been cut a few times on the Ceroc DVD too. Next time, we take the CENTRE. Which also goes to show how confident and prepared you are for competition.(me reckons anyway) :)

[Angelina]

With reference to the 2005 DVD, unfortunately it is true that the footage we retrieved was unusable therefore we can do no more.

Anyone who has paid for the 2005 DVD please contact us to let us know if you would like a refund or putting down for a copy of 2006 DVD.

We are truly sorry and equally dissapointed, but unfortunately it is beyond our contol.

As mentioned in this threat Steve 'Hitman' strong has been confirmed as official Videographer for 2006, we are all really excited about this and are expecting him to do us proud. I hope everyone will try not to be put off by previoius problems and support 'hitman' by buying this years DVD.

Look forward to seeing you all in March!

Angelina x