PDA

View Full Version : Ballroom / Latin / Tango options in North London



Clive Long
9th-September-2005, 04:36 PM
I did my first Tango lesson at "Factory Fitness" - half way between Archway and Finsbury Park. Not the most glamorous of areas in London.

Airy and light dance area with a whacking column in the middle of the dance floor - but if you are "progressing" it's not an obstacle.

Two events that might be of interest for those of a "formal dance" inclination.

As always - I have no connection with these.

***********************************************
SUNDAY NIGHT TANGO at THE FACTORY

Has started again after the summer break
Class 7.30 to 8.30pm - Dancing 8.30 to 11pm.

Great Class, Great Atmosphere, Great Music, Great Floor and Free Drinks.
***********************************************
NEW BALLROOM & LATIN CLASS
an opportunity for all you tango and salsa dancers to try something different.

A new Ballroom and Latin Beginners and Improvers class starts on
Wednesday September 14th at 8pm.

Teaching this class will be Inga Haas, winner of British, European and World Amateur Latin Championships.

No need to book for this class - just turn up - price £8 - and you don't need to come with a partner.

TangoLondon at The Factory
020 7272 1122
info@tangolondon.com
www.tangolondon.com
***********************************************
Tonight, Friday 9th, I'm going down to Wimbledon to try Tango down there.

I'm going to feed that Tango bug in the next few weeks and try a few venues - Latin Quarter, Euston, next Wednesday for example. If I find anything of interest I'll report back
***********************************************
Clive

Missy D
9th-September-2005, 05:50 PM
I did my first Tango lesson at "Factory Fitness" - half way between Archway and Finsbury Park. Not the most glamorous of areas in London.

Airy and light dance area with a whacking column in the middle of the dance floor - but if you are "progressing" it's not an obstacle.

Two events that might be of interest for those of a "formal dance" inclination.

As always - I have no connection with these.

***********************************************
SUNDAY NIGHT TANGO at THE FACTORY

Has started again after the summer break
Class 7.30 to 8.30pm - Dancing 8.30 to 11pm.

Great Class, Great Atmosphere, Great Music, Great Floor and Free Drinks.
***********************************************
NEW BALLROOM & LATIN CLASS
an opportunity for all you tango and salsa dancers to try something different.

A new Ballroom and Latin Beginners and Improvers class starts on
Wednesday September 14th at 8pm.

Teaching this class will be Inga Haas, winner of British, European and World Amateur Latin Championships.

No need to book for this class - just turn up - price £8 - and you don't need to come with a partner.

TangoLondon at The Factory
020 7272 1122
info@tangolondon.com
www.tangolondon.com
***********************************************
Tonight, Friday 9th, I'm going down to Wimbledon to try Tango down there.

I'm going to feed that Tango bug in the next few weeks and try a few venues - Latin Quarter, Euston, next Wednesday for example. If I find anything of interest I'll report back
***********************************************
Clive


I did a couple of private lessons there last year and learnt such a lot in those few hours. Might pop along on the 14th.

Thanks Clive :worthy: (See i can answer a thread without lowering the tone!)

(I could have said i know about the partner bit he he!)

KatieR
9th-September-2005, 11:06 PM
***********************************************
SUNDAY NIGHT TANGO at THE FACTORY

Has started again after the summer break
Class 7.30 to 8.30pm - Dancing 8.30 to 11pm.

Great Class, Great Atmosphere, Great Music, Great Floor and Free Drinks.
***********************************************


I really like the sound of that. Is it ballroom Tango or proper Argentine Tango? What is the lesson format and do you need a partner to participate?

foxylady
10th-September-2005, 01:11 AM
I really like the sound of that. Is it ballroom Tango or proper Argentine Tango? What is the lesson format and do you need a partner to participate?

Its proper argentine tango. I've been having private lessons (in a number of dance styles) there for a year or so now, and they really specialize in high quality argentine tango teaching and dancing...... (and usual sort of format; no partner needed)

Bit far from camberwell I'd say tho'

Foxy

Divissima
11th-September-2005, 09:24 PM
Its proper argentine tango. I've been having private lessons (in a number of dance styles) there for a year or so now, and they really specialize in high quality argentine tango teaching and dancing...... (and usual sort of format; no partner needed)

Bit far from camberwell I'd say tho'

FoxyI have also been having private lessons there (similarly in a number of dance styles). I also attended (a couple of years back now) one of their beginners' tango workshops. In my experience, the quality of teaching at the Factory is fantastic - in fact, I think I owe Foxy a drink for recommending the private lessons! :hug:

Clive Long
20th-September-2005, 10:31 AM
Finally, finally, I am getting organised to dedicate time to Argentinean Tango (AT).

I went to TangoinAction last night, 19 September. I had been soaking my feet for an hour to reduce the stinging still present from Southport.

Of the teachers:

Stefano is a strong yet fluid dancer. He is a "real man" - not flash or bumptious. Women must fall for him.

Alexandra is just stunning. Such grace and sensuality - without being "tacky" .

When I arrived there was a "oh wonderful ! Another man !" from Alexandra. There was a 2 women to 1 man ratio - so if that is an incentive guys ... However, the studio we were in was pretty full :( . Without floor progression and with people looking at their feet, a fair bit of bumping was going on :( . I will ask if the teachers can do anything about that.

My first partner was a disaster. She was a smug, domineering girl. After I explained I had missed the beginning of the class (my fault entirely) and I asked "could she bear with me?" while I tried to apply the info about the steps from the 30 second update Stefano could afford - she just gave me "well you are leading, I'm just following" - technically correct but not helpful - and then I explained again .... well, stalemate really. All her feed-back was "you are doing that wrong". Does she dance in the "No-Row"? :devil:

Two women turned me down for practice - weird stuff - so I moved on and asked another - Ceroc has been great training for dealing with that. I think they were stunned I took the brush-off in my stride.

Boy did I sweat - and I wore a dark shirt - twit! Anyway. Ceroc "wicking" fabric next week.

Oh, ... and the dancing. Stefano and Alexandra's style is very similar to what I have been taught before, so I fitted in. There was a very clear description of the man walking by Stefano - he described it as walking along a tight-rope with feline grace but he also showed exactly where to move one's feet. An object lesson in fusing instruction on technique with instruction on style. Also, I remember NOT leading with one's left hand but keeping the frame - ooooh, hard !!!

The venue, The Urdang, Covent Garden, is a little bit "worn" but was OK for dancing with mirrors down one wall - scary or what ! Urdang is easy for me to get to (if I leave enough time).

An extremely good dancer was there and she helped me with some of the moves. She did a useful bit of back-leading to "fix" the basics of where to put my feet. Backleading? Bring it on in such situations !!!

I'm going back next week.

Latin Quarter, Euston, on Wednesday. :clap:

Clive :flower:

Clive Long
23rd-September-2005, 07:33 PM
Latin Quarter, Euston, Wednesday, 21 September


There are some dance studios beneath a shop selling everything "Latin Musical" e.g. flamenco guitars, maracas etc. The entrance was what looked like a "service door" - not signed at all.

The studio rooms were modern with good sound system, a mirror down the long wall. The floor is a laminate wood-effect. Talcum powder was put down and my Suede soles were fine on it. The sound system was a Bose "box" and it produced enough undistorted volume for the studio.

There were 4 women, 4 other men the male teacher and his female demo. The demo women always seem to be on the point of unhealthily thin. The teacher was Leonardo Fandango (great name) who is a strongly built but not over-weight Argentinean. His accent is strong but he is understandable 95% of the time

The class started with just move backwards and forwards in time to the music. Then some rotations and reverse leg sweeps. Balance and shoulder stability were focussed on. Real basic technical stuff - this was used later.

The men and women learned their steps separately facing a mirror, repeat, examine, comment, adjust, repeat, repeat.

Then the exercise was performed by pairing up. Repeat, change partner. Only one partner was difficult. She seemed young and "correct" and not prepared to discuss why the move was going wrong - just to tut.

The female demo was great and very helpful and supportive.

It was interesting to dance with a less experienced dancer who did not keep her torso aligned to mine i.e. she was twisted in some way or "displaced" to the side. It made executing moves very difficult because the whole of your bodies are involved as far as I can tell and when the person is "misaligned" you have to push them into position. Sorry, but I did.

We then learned a simple hero where the women performs single forward and backward ocho and slide return as she "walks" ACW around the man. This was combined with simple salidas (?) - a nice little routine.

This Latin Quarter class was better than Monday for space to dance but I prefered Monday's teacher. Ho, hum


Finchley, Thursday 22 Sept

Finchley is my manor. I am excited we have a gleaming new Arts Centre that seems to be well attended for shows and provides a wide range of performance workshops from kids aged 3 to pensioners.

The class was taught by two performers from the artLat company. They are young and passionate.

I won't rerun the details of the class (except @). They concentrated on the walk (as always) and emphasised a "natural" movement, rather than some madly stylised stuff. This feels right to me. The Salsa experts struggle because their hips just can't stop wiggling.

@ the exercise that was new to me was the man facing the woman but with no embrace / hold. So the women had to sense the intention of the man in order to start, walk and stop. It was a simple exercise that was hard to do well - but revealed so much about whether the woman felt confident about accepting the man into her space - not submissively but actively.

The venue had a walled mirror (of course) and also a wall of glass from where you could see local rooftops. Not a great view but gave a sense of "space" in the studio. The sound system was unobtrusive but produced plenty of sound.

The female-male ratio was about 10 to 7 - but women paired up for the exercises so it wasn't a problem.

The instructors - both performing dancers - as well as being very clear about framing also said that everything in the dance was subservient to "connection", "intention", "invitation", "response" and "acceptance".

At the end of the evening the dancers / teachers gave a small demo and it was interesting to watch the girl's face which changed from intensity, to a far away look to a surprised smile as the young man moved.

After, I briefly thanked the teachers and the girl expressed her love for the Tango - very real. For me, currently, Tango expresses more than other dances the passion that can exist between a man and a woman. Not just sexual, but a "meshing" of two individuals who retain their separate, complementary and equally-important identities within the dance. I am sure other dance style do this for other people and for homosexual / lesbian couples. I can only express what I sense and experience.

I loved this evening and am so looking forward to going back.

I won't post regularly - I don't have Ducasi's stamina - but if I get a great insight, a set-back or a particularly moving moment I'll whack it up here.

Cheers

The poster formerly known as Clive Long

David Bailey
30th-September-2005, 08:41 AM
Update on the continuing Tango Saga, in the style of the Longitudinous One (well, not really, but it sounds good):

Finchley, Thursday 29 Sept: artsdepot (http://www.artsdepot.co.uk/) Beginner's Tango

It's a 10-week course. I missed last week, but I had an invincible confidence in my ability to muddle through ( :eek: ), so I signed up for the remaining 9.

The male demo was apparently a different guy to last week - he was a bit quiet in talking, but was friendly and approachable otherwise. The female teacher was great - she really explained it well, and of course looked superb.

There were about 15 people there I think - and only a couple of ladies over, so a good ratio. Hopefully no more ladies will drop out or I'll find myself dancing with Clive. Again.

This week's session started with walking to the music, and the teachers clicking their fingers to the beat - and I got the beat! Amazing. I never imagined I would actually hear the beat in Tango, I was well chuffed.

There was a lot of talk about walking technique, positioning oneself, spreading your toes, feeling the ground, relaxing and tensing various muscles, and yet still keeping posture.... :confused:

I didn't get that bit, but hopefully it'll come in time.

We then coupled up, and started swaying from side to side - I was told off, rightly, for having my legs spread wider than a wide thing. :blush:

The teachers went over the frame and connection thing, and the whole "leading from the chest" concept - that bit, I did understand, although putting it in practice was trickier. They taught a more "open" hold than I'd expected - probably a good thing too, I don't envy a woman having to press her body up against mine :tears:

We walked around, to the side, back and forward etc. No real routines were taught, it was up to us to move and lead - very refreshing, and enjoyable.

I'd have stayed later, but had to rush up to St. Albans to do a salsa class in Ceroc. So, nice mix of styles there to leave me totally confused... I'll be back next week to the Tango though, it was great.

Clive Long
30th-September-2005, 02:04 PM
:yeah: to what DJ has written.

Looking over my notes (I'm going to squeeze full value out of my £60) I would extend the Salsa infiltrator's "no routines" comment.

When you look at Tango you would think it would be Lou's dream-world, foot-work everywhere.

The irony is, although we were taught a little "clock-wise turning manoeuveur" the teacher kept emphasising "forget your feet, keep the intention with your partner. If you are connected your feet will follow"

The analogy is that you don't (normally) think about your feet when you are walking - you think about where you want to get to. Now that's easy for someone who has done Tango for 10 years - whereas I have difficulty sensing which foot my weight is on - but it is something to bear in mind about the relative importance of partner connection versus feet. I'm sure that has a strong parallel in MJ where one should be:

"dancing with your partner" rather than "dancing with your partner" (c) SpinDr. 2005

Clive

frodo
30th-September-2005, 11:05 PM
Interesting information about ArtsDepot classes. I wonder if there will be significant differences between a 10 week course, and much shorter / start any week system.



...They taught a more "open" hold than I'd expected - probably a good thing too, I don't envy a woman having to press her body up against mine
My experience is that teachers often seem to teach an closer hold, but unless the teachers force the issue, many people (including me) normally ignore that bit, so it might be of more use to be taught to do an open hold well.


When you look at Tango you would think it would be Lou's dream-world, foot-work everywhere
...Whereas I have difficulty sensing which foot my weight is on - but it is something to bear in mind about the relative importance of partner connection versus feet. I'm sure that has a strong parallel in MJ where one should be:
My difficulty is quickly picking up what foot my partner is on in Tango. The problem with a focus on this is it's difficult to stop trying to track consciously (still unsuccessfully though) what foot my partner is on in Ceroc.

David Bailey
1st-October-2005, 11:40 AM
Interesting information about ArtsDepot classes. I wonder if there will be significant differences between a 10 week course, and much shorter / start any week system.
Well, there'll (I hope!) be some progression each week. Although you have to pay for the entire course in advance - makes sense, as otherwise lots would drop out I imagine.


My experience is that teachers often seem to teach an closer hold, but unless the teachers force the issue, many people (including me) normally ignore that bit, so it might be of more use to be taught to do an open hold well.
It's possible that we'll be doing close holds later on - or that those will be taught in more advanced sessions. Open holds maybe make us feel more comfortable with strange people than the whole body-contact thing.


My difficulty is quickly picking up what foot my partner is on in Tango.
Hmmm - maybe I'm just fooling myself with my vast inexperience in Tango, but I found that the easy part, it's such a slow beat compared to my other dances that I had time to move and correct.

The tricky parts for me were not wiggling (!), and finding the beat in the first place.

DianaS
1st-October-2005, 03:12 PM
Hi Chaps
Its really good to hear that you are doing this stuff. I started two classes a cuppla weeks ago, one in ballroom and one in latin (they run on from each other).
We are in the beginners but there are few real beginners there. Mostly they are advanced doing their warm up and bringing on the newbies.
I was partnered with the dance teachers demo the first week for a while then she quickly passed me on to someone else. We covered the waltz, cha cha, quickstep and somt other things that I can't remember. I really love it! The old music and the gentlness of it all..
I feel really relaxed during the class, its like floating in heaven, very therapeutic and exceptionally charming and camp!
The main difference is that you stay with one person all lesson. And do develop a deeper sense of engagement. After the first class a few of us went for a drink and practiced our steps. Very lovely, and I can't wait for Tuesdays now!!
And yes I'm contuinuing my dance diary...
Cas I love it so much
Perhaps if there are a few of us learning these things we can keep n touch via this thread or may be have a more general one aswell for Latin and Ballroom queens Waddya think then? :flower:

David Bailey
1st-October-2005, 05:36 PM
The main difference is that you stay with one person all lesson.

:eek: Not sure if that's a good idea - I like being moved around. We changed partners maybe a half-dozen times in our class - nothing like Ceroc, but enough for us to get a sense of dancing with different people.


After the first class a few of us went for a drink and practiced our steps.
That sounds nice - but where did you practice, in the pub? :what:


Perhaps if there are a few of us learning these things we can keep n touch via this thread or may be have a more general one aswell for Latin and Ballroom queens Waddya think then? :flower:
Yes - I've been thinking an "other dances" section would be nice for a while now... I feel a poll coming on.

DianaS
1st-October-2005, 06:41 PM
:eek: Not sure if that's a good idea - I like being moved around. We changed partners maybe a half-dozen times in our class - nothing like Ceroc, but enough for us to get a sense of dancing with different people..
For my first couppla classes its been really nice like having your own personal taxi. I found that we chatted during the half hour and got to know each other it was very bonding and grounding.. The next week it was someone else so I'll slowly work my way through the class :nice:


:
That sounds nice - but where did you practice, in the pub? :what:
.
Much to the amusement of every one yes! I was writing out the steps and the only way we could pick out the fine detail was to do it!! We had a few cat calls, as there was a quiz and a man with a mike one night, but he was just jealous cas we were getting moree attention than him :whistle:


:
Yes - I've been thinking an "other dances" section would be nice for a while now... I feel a poll coming on.

Hmm let it be called "Ballroom queens and latin lovers!"

Ballroom queen
2nd-October-2005, 12:40 PM
Hi Chaps
Its really good to hear that you are doing this stuff. I started two classes a cuppla weeks ago, one in ballroom and one in latin (they run on from each other).


Did I miss a bit?? Where is this class???
Thanks
BQ

DianaS
3rd-October-2005, 12:56 PM
Did I miss a bit?? Where is this class???
Thanks
BQ
It's in Lichfield staffordshire....
Just Pm me if you want details!
D

Northants Girly
3rd-October-2005, 12:58 PM
Just Pm me if you want details!
Is it a secret then? :confused:

Ballroom queen
3rd-October-2005, 07:50 PM
It's in Lichfield staffordshire....
Just Pm me if you want details!
D


oh dear, a bit far from west london then.
Oh well, enjoy

Clive Long
4th-October-2005, 01:36 AM
Monday 3 October, TangoInAction, Covent Garden

Not much to report except a bit of a "flat" night for me. :sad:

The class is well taught but I found the complete lack of "progression" and concern about other dancers while people were practising was putting me off. I was trying to prevent my partner being bumped and people just charged through. I asked, very diplomatically, how we could avoid bumping and people were asked to be aware of other dancers. I understand why the bumping is happening - there is so much detail to implement about posture, how to move one's feet and where to put one's feet that being aware of other couples is just too much at this stage of learning.

Beyond that, I felt that with 2 of my partners there was a real battle of wills going on with me. There was little discussion and exploration just a need to appoint blame for failed moves. Unsettling.

It must be frustrating for the women who are trying to learn if the guy (me) finds it tricky to string a series of moves together. What I need is the dance partner equivalent of the machines that serve up tens, hundreds, thousands of tennis and cricket ball deliveries - just to ingrain the moves into my brainicle.

The experience could be demoralising but when a simple sequence does come off it is satisfying.



Clive

David Bailey
4th-October-2005, 08:47 AM
I was trying to prevent my partner being bumped and people just charged through.
I found that, last week.

It's very difficult going from a relatively ordered and non-travelling dance like MJ or salsa to a progressive dance, and I had to spend a lot of time steering. Floorcraft, plus new dance steps, plus difficult beat, plus all this technique stuff :eek:

On the plus side, I discovered a nifty "rock back / forward" move to avoid crashing into someone who suddenly decided to stop dead in front of me. :grin:


Beyond that, I felt that with 2 of my partners there was a real battle of wills going on with me. There was little discussion and exploration just a need to appoint blame for failed moves. Unsettling.
Maybe I was lucky in my partners, but I didn't find that - if something went wrong (which it did, often), I just kept on moving through it. I found salsa dancing useful here, in that salsa teaches you to recapture the beat more than MJ does, and to keep moving no matter what.

(Obviously, salsa dancing also has handicaps, the whole hip-wiggling thing being a major no-no)

Clive Long
4th-October-2005, 12:16 PM
<< snip >>
My difficulty is quickly picking up what foot my partner is on in Tango. The problem with a focus on this is it's difficult to stop trying to track consciously (still unsuccessfully though) what foot my partner is on in Ceroc.
I had a related problem last night. After a pause in movement when I have brought my feet together, the question for me is, "which foot next?" I completely forget which foot to move. Well in a sense it doesn't matter which foot/leg/side as long as your partner is moving the "same/complementary" foot/leg/side. I was told, if you lose track then just shift your weight from foot to foot, more by pressing into the floor than lifting ones feet, When your partner is "in sync" then move off, forward, sideways or back.

After talking about problems, problems today, I have just remembered one "connection exercise" we did at Finchley that I don't think I have written about before. A challenge for new dancers is to keep this thing called "intention" forward to your partner. The teacher said one way to achieve the alignment of torsoes when in an open embrace (hold), is to think about a rigid rod between your chests which keeps you a certain distance part. Now the man moves towards the woman. The natural response (at least in my experience :sad: ) is for the woman to back away by leaning back slightly or turning her shoulder towards to the man/partner. This breaks the connection. The challenge for the woman is to move away but still keep her torso inclined slightly towards her partner. In the exercise, where the man and woman face each other, there is no embrace /hold, as the man moves in any direction at any speed, the woman "tracks" him keeping her torso parallel to his. She keeps that "rod" distance "fixed". Of course, the relative position of bodies in the dance will move outside these strict positions, but the exercise helps to deal address the issue of the woman "recoiling" when the man moves towards her. An interesting variant might be for the woman to lead and the man to follow - although I don't this would happen in a dance. I have heard of MJ teachers doing a similar "no touching" lead/follow exercise - even though what is being lead and followed might be different in detail.

Clive

David Bailey
4th-October-2005, 12:47 PM
I have heard of MJ teachers doing a similar "no touching" lead/follow exercise - even though what is being lead and followed might be different in detail.
I tried this out in freestyle on Friday with CeeCee, leading her without touching.
It seemed to work OK, and it was very interesting.

I still had to "signal intent" with my hands (hand flicks / waves), if I wanted her to turn or spin, but I find that you can lead an amazing amount with your torso.

Admittedly, that was with CeeCee - mere mortal followers might find it difficult. But it's a very good exercise even so.

DianaS
4th-October-2005, 01:08 PM
I tried this out in freestyle on Friday with CeeCee, leading her without touching.
It seemed to work OK, and it was very interesting.

I still had to "signal intent" with my hands (hand flicks / waves), if I wanted her to turn or spin, but I find that you can lead an amazing amount with your torso.

Admittedly, that was with CeeCee - mere mortal followers might find it difficult. But it's a very good exercise even so.
We did a lovely exercise called seaweed where you just use air to signal your intent. Your partner has their eyes closed and responds to the movement of air around their body. You as their partner create the air currents by rapidly shifting the air around them (usually by small and rapid movements of the hands) Its a lovely exercise. I wrote a peom after doing it for the first time. It can be very moving if the room is still and calm.
Don't know how to make a link it was in the thread Beautiful poetry but here it is below...
Can any one tell me how to link threads??

Re: Beautiful poetry

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seaweed
Standing, eyes closed
I feel your breath
Perfectly calm, a breeze, a flutter
the quick swirl of movement.

I touch your hand,
it rizes slowly..
the enchantment is deep.

Slowly, in perfect silence
I move your body,
Your senses waiting for each gesture

Quietly, I lay you to rest,
Still.

CeeCee
5th-October-2005, 11:20 AM
I tried this out in freestyle on Friday with CeeCee, leading her without touching.
It seemed to work OK, and it was very interesting.

I still had to "signal intent" with my hands (hand flicks / waves), if I wanted her to turn or spin, but I find that you can lead an amazing amount with your torso.

Admittedly, that was with CeeCee - mere mortal followers might find it difficult. But it's a very good exercise even so.

Wow thanks DJ for the compliment, you really are too kind, have multiple rep!!
I enjoyed our ‘hands free’ dance too but you flatter me because all I did was follow your fabulously clear, decisive leads.
CeeCee x

Lory
5th-October-2005, 12:02 PM
the woman "tracks" him keeping her torso parallel to his. She keeps that "rod" distance "fixed".

Clive
We did a slightly more 'full on' exercise at one of our Argentine Tango lessons, where we had to lean into each other (hands behind our backs, nothing touching, except chests! No smutty jokes please, this was all in the name of dance!!!!:innocent: ) If either of us broke the resistance, it would cause the other to fall over...

Just to be lead walking forward or back, with slight changes of direction, without treading on each other, took quite a lot of tuning into for me...

The posture learned from this, could then be transferred to an 'open hold' (although from the limited bits i've seen of REAL Argentine Tango, they seem to use the closed embrace more often, obviously WITH the addition of hands too)

It was an interesting exercise and a valuable one IMO, as the connection and lead is so totally different in Tango from MJ!

David Bailey
5th-October-2005, 08:08 PM
We did a slightly more 'full on' exercise at one of our Argentine Tango lessons
Where's that then? Review...?

Clive Long
5th-October-2005, 10:58 PM
<< snip >>
The posture learned from this, could then be transferred to an 'open hold' (although from the limited bits i've seen of REAL Argentine Tango, they seem to use the closed embrace more often, obviously WITH the addition of hands too)
<< snip >>

My take on the open embrace (listen to the expert :rolleyes: ) is that it has its place and is necessary for certain moves. I can't see how Ochoes (that figure of eight pivoting and stepping by the women) or the dangerous looking between-the-legs kicks :eek: (what is the name?) could be attempted in a close embrace.

Anyone want to comment on my thought?

Separately - link (http://home.att.net/~larrydla/basics_0.html) to a site that breaks down the simple steps into simple foot patterns

Clive

David Bailey
6th-October-2005, 07:52 AM
I can't see how Ochoes (that figure of eight pivoting and stepping by the women) or the dangerous looking between-the-legs kicks :eek: (what is the name?) could be attempted in a close embrace.
Amazingly, given my even less knowledge, I shall semi-disagree - I've seen them done in a close embrace.

But having said that, I always thought they looked a bit weird, as it looked like the woman had to lean a bit too far forward against the guy, to give her feet room to move.

From that link, it looks like the between-the-legs steps are called intrusiones?

David Bailey
6th-October-2005, 09:29 PM
Well, just back from my second Arg. Tango class, here are some thoughts.

Clive arrived late - of course, the man has no integrity. :whistle:

There was a new lead teacher tonight - honestly, I preferred the previous one, I hope she returns next week. The demo guy (Keiji?) was the same, however, and he's very good.

We did a lot of walking, as always - I think I've walked around that room 200 times already.

Standard set of exercises, walking forwards and backwards, concentrating on the line, and so on. Lots more walking.

Not so much about standing technique this time, but we did a couple of interesting exercises. First, single-hand ballroom hold, leading the lady whilst she had her eyes closed. Then, role reversal, the leaders becoming followers - and also closing their eyes. Very interesting, and useful - it brought it home to me how difficult following is in something like tango, where you're not being physically pulled around, but you have to focus on intention and connection.

Some freestyle at the end - I eventually managed to get a good connection with my partner for the last dance, so that was a good way to end.

DianaS
6th-October-2005, 10:16 PM
Hmmm just came back from my second ballroom class in a week!!
It was the same teacher but a different venue. As soon as I walked I was approached by a lady who asked if I had a partner and would like to partner her. Absolutely impeccable manners the ballroom crowd. Ofcouse she turned out to be the lady who also demos so I was led and instructed beuatifully all night.
We did a new dance the social foxtrot and a reapat of the class that I had done on Tuesday almost work for word, but it was very helpful. I stayed later to see the advanced class... they flew around the room and were absolutely stunning....
Can't wait for Tuesday and will be looking out for people to dance with on Saturday

Ballroomers and latin lovers lets meet at Daventry OK!!:cheers:

Clive Long
7th-October-2005, 07:11 AM
Finchley. Thursday 6 October

I like this class. OK the beguiling female teacher, Kika (keeka) was not there, but I felt the stand-in had a similar approach and connected quite quickly and successfully with us in the class.

A note for you shoe fetishist. The teacher was wearing (I think) split sole jazz shoes - which seemed fine for all the "slidey-walk" exercises we were doing. I haven't seen a female Tango dancer wearing those before.

Walking, walking, walking. It seems to be the Tango Way. One does not lead with the leg, one moves one's whole body with purpose and "intention" (a word that gets used a lot) to where one wants to go. I'm quite happy to "work on the walk". I have been told, and believe, the walk really is the foundation of the dance. In theory, one could Tango by just walking with one's partner, without the beautiful, dramatic ornaments. However, some of the people in the class want to do more complex movements and find the re-iteration of the walk quite tedious.

The teacher emphasised the importance of a clear, decisive lead. The difficulty I faced was when dancing with a timid partner. Maybe it was me but I felt she did not "connect" with me to understand where I wanted to go. I didn't experience this with other partners.

I tried following (closing my eyes) with the timid partner and almost always mistimed my start and moved on the wrong foot. I did not get the chance to follow other women. The small amount of "MJ following" I have done with DJ - he needs to really force me to move. I find following very disorienting - so the challenge is mine.

One statement by the teacher confirmed a concern of mine. She said that when one goes to the salon or milonga for social dancing one must be confident and know what one is doing. The Tango attitude is not one of uncertainty. This prospect is intimidating when one struggles to integrate the basic movement into one's body.

All I need now is an infinitely patient, always available dance partner to work the routine stuff.

Clive

frodo
8th-October-2005, 07:25 PM
Stopping a little short of Ashtons, I tried out the beginners class at Tango in Bath.

The class is centrally located within easy reach of the railway station.

I arrived at the advertised time of 7pm, to the class in a church hall – the class actually started at 7.15 pm – music was playing and people were dancing prior to the class starting.

There were probably 20-30 people for each class – I was told it was busier than normal. I did notice that the proportion of couples looked higher than I've seen elsewhere in Tango. The balance seemed near to even – I didn't notice anyone clearly standing out in either class. The teacher consistently had people change partners after each bit.


The class was taught by a single male teacher who, rather than having a fixed partner, demonstrated bits picking people from the class, as necessary.

The class covered some basic steps, the cross and forward ocho. It didn't touch on the hold but went over leading / following from the upper body, and rotation / weight on the foot.

One thing I found really good was the reasoning behind each thing he taught was clearly explained, rather than just what we should do. Still had difficulty putting it all together in practice but at least I understood what I should be doing. It was also nice for a change to have a less foreign style teacher.

There was just a short period between the beginners and the next class. The freestyle is mainly after the second class. Most people did seem to do both classes, though I left after watching a little of the second class.

David Bailey
8th-October-2005, 08:30 PM
The class covered some basic steps, the cross and forward ocho. It didn't touch on the hold but went over leading / following from the upper body, and rotation / weight on the foot.
In the three classes (2 attended by me) so far, we've not actually done any steps yet - just walking to the music. That's 4.5 hours of walking, basically.

I like it, it makes a refreshing change to concentrate on movement rather than on a routine - but it makes me wonder if we're missing something.

I won't start worrying about it for a few more weeks though.

Ballroom queen
9th-October-2005, 08:38 PM
Hi all,
Hannes and Amy (ex of Strictly no sequins) are starting a ballroom and latin class at Chiswick Town hall, 17th Oct 8pm sharp. beginners welcome, no need to bring a partner. &#163;7. No bar, bring your own drinks.

Any more info PM me and I'll forward the flyer.

can I attach it here???
shame it clashes with Jango, but hey ho.

Kev F
10th-October-2005, 09:25 PM
In the three classes (2 attended by me) so far, we've not actually done any steps yet - just walking to the music. That's 4.5 hours of walking, basically.

I like it, it makes a refreshing change to concentrate on movement rather than on a routine - but it makes me wonder if we're missing something.

I won't start worrying about it for a few more weeks though.

Our tango teacher says that it takes ten years to learn to walk properly in tango :eek: which is a bit of a worry as my total lifetime dance experience hasn't even reached three yet. :rofl:

But she does operate a different principle to other tango teachers in that she gives us little add-on steps each week to the walking. This allows us to have building blocks to nearly make it resemble a tango.

We are eight weeks in and still do a lot of walking....but it is starting to make a little sense. My problem is that I can't keep the dance small and need a whole room to work with never mind in a restricted cafe bar. Hopefully this concept will become clearer as we progress.

Am plucking up the courage to venture to a tango club...any venue suggestions would be gratefully received??? Just need to witness what we are all working towards.

kev

Clive Long
10th-October-2005, 09:33 PM
<< snip >>
Am plucking up the courage to venture to a tango club...any venue suggestions would be gratefully received??? Just need to witness what we are all working towards.

kev
I'm game - Foxylady wants to practise too.

I know there is a weekly dance/salon/milonga at Grays Inn Road - but I don't know what the standard is.

I'll have time to look at this next week


Clive
Clive

Lory
10th-October-2005, 10:45 PM
Clive
Clive
There's two of you? :what: now that's scary :devil:

Clive Long
11th-October-2005, 07:15 AM
There's two of you? :what: now that's scary :devil:
Once is never enough in my book.

Clive
Clive

Lynn
11th-October-2005, 10:14 AM
Off thread as not North London.. but this thread did give me a nudge to email the Arg Tango teacher who did a taster class last month - and just heard back that she is planning some classes in Belfast in January.

I think I would enjoy her classes. She seems to be a good communicator, is 3rd generation Arg Tango dancer, learning it in the dance halls in Argentina, and has been teaching it in New York for 11 years. But she has married someone from NI so is now here. Something to look forward to!

Clive Long
14th-October-2005, 08:49 AM
Thursday 13 October, Finchley

Most important news is DJ wimped out. Broken ankle or some such silly reason.

Second most important news is the sultry, girlish Kika was back teaching - :na: to you Mr. Wimpo.

Believe it or not we did some walking, and then some more. I know some people in the lesson find this irritating but I buy into it big time. I think the teachers are really trying to instill in us what they feel are the secure foundations of good Tango technique that then underpins all the moves. However, your average evening-class student wants to see "progress" - measured in terms of flashy moves. I could walk round all evening - very therapeutic.

The new element introduced was the "pivot turn". A strong message about Tango movement is to think, "intend" where you are going and move your body towards it - don't stretch out your leg and pull your body along to catch up with it. However, when one looks at Keiji walking there seems, to me, to be a suspicion of leg extension there - it's all very subtle and I sometimes wonder if there is a touch of Emperor's New Clothes in all this. Anyway, we started this activity with a zig-zag forward walk - no "Tango style". The only thing to work on was deliberately turning at 90 degrees (to the current diection of travel) one's head, then shoulders then torso and hips to follow without thought. Then step, step, step (I think you have that idea by now). There was also an exercise where one very deliberately stood on one foot, other "hovering" over the floor, then turn on ones axis, no travel, head, shoulders, torso and the rest. If done smoothly and rapidly momentum transmits down the body (think Viktor body-roll) and you don't actually try to turn, it just happens - very interesting.

This movement then lead to the ocho. And now all that head-turning exercise made sense. The ocho just "flowed" as a step rather than a turn. Ocho has been described elsewhere (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=141524&highlight=ocho#post141524)
and here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=141502&highlight=ocho#post141502)

Note also in LM's post the phrase "opening up the space" (*). This was emphasised again this week - and is a perspective on the lead/follow discussions happening elsewhere (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6654) . I asked, "how do you lead an ocho?". There was a confused pause from Kika - then she lit up. "There is no lead from the man. You don't push or pull with the arms. You create a space with your body that you invite the partner to step into." So in the case of ocho (it helps a lot if you can visualise it) the leader does not move his/her feet or push the follower at all, the space is created by moving the torso and the follower has to move into the space to retain the connection. Intention, connection, response. Intention, connection, response. If I could dance like that ......

Another note I made was to do with frame. Simply the leader thinks of his/her right hand, behind the followers back as staying pretty much "in line" with the centre of his chest. The follower moves/slides her body but retains the "elliptical frame". Remember keep torsoes aligned ! Lots of challenging torso stretching as a result.

I like the way this is all built up. Nothing seems tedious or superfluous.

Kika runs a weekly practica on Mondays (clash: Finchley, clash: Jango) in Tufnell Park. Tempting though, as a place to practise, practise, practise. Also Kika is going to give me details of a Saturday salon run by the choreographers of artLat - I think I'll go to look.

Clive

as an aside (*) - the Tango teaching seems consistent in its language and approach among the 4? 5? teachers I have been to. I know there has been sniping (I know I should put in links) about the Borg-like teaching from CTA teachers (teacher/dancer thread ???) - but I can see value in consistency of style and language if you do move between classes or dance with different dancers from one's own little local group.

Another aside is I was talking to an older woman, who is a lovely, lovely dancer. She was taught to dance by her father and does Rumba, Cha cha (cha?), Foxtrot etc. She went to Salsa for two years and gave up because she "couldn't break into the clique" (her words) and get a dance. If you want to repond to that look here. (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=161384&highlight=zebra#post161348) (first point in ZW's post above Spin Dr. - can't get link to work properly) I'm not knocking salsa, I'd like to do it, but indicating the impact attitude has on new entrants - also much discussed elsewhere (but no time to search).

Lory
15th-October-2005, 12:54 AM
Apologies but...... I've just got to tell you about the most wonderful evening I had on Thursday...:)

Kev took me on an 'outing' to the 'International Ballroom Champs' at the Royal Albert Hall :waycool: .. we happened to have 'quite' good seats too :whistle: (this dance partner thing, has definite perks you know:D )

OOOOOH the glitter, the glamour, the sparkling dresses, (and in some cases 'lack of them':really: ) the sheer brilliance of the dancers, the excitement, the drama, the hair do's, the clashing of heads:sick: , the FAKE TAN:eek: ...my god, even the men were caked in it!

I had no idea what to expect but was amazed at the precision running of the event, as one round finishes, the next lot are already in place to swap over. The speed in which they get through the rounds is incredible!:worthy:

Quite fascinating are the faces the dancers make, I can now tell just from the look on the mans face, whether he's doing a pasa doble or a waltz. (I wonder if they practice 'this' in the mirror :confused: )

I'm not sure :confused: but there does seem to be an element of foul play that goes on (and it all adds to the drama :wink: ), as far as I could tell... when couples broke hold to dance separately to rejoin with something dramatic, another couple would seem determined to dance right though the middle of them..:angry:

How an earth the judges even begin to decide which couple is better, is way beyond me.. I couldn't even tell the difference between the amateurs and the professionals:cool: the only fact was, there were a few faces I recognised from SCD in the latter. It's not like MJ where people have different styles or interpret the music differently, they all look exactly the same to 'this' untrained eye! :blush: And the Cha cha (which we've been learning) was barely recognisable, gone were any basic steps.

Earlier in the day, there was a suggestion to bring my dancing shoes, as we'd get a chance to go on the floor during the breaks, I was very apprehensive about this, as i've only been going for about 7or 8 weeks and petrified i'd make a complete idiot of myself :blush: but as it turned out, it was actually the highlight of my night... (thank you Kevin, for persuading me :hug: ) It was fabulous to be in the middle of the floor, looking up and taking in the sheer magnitude of the venue:waycool: ...I still don't know how the competitors get their legs to work after they've turned to jelly :confused:

The ambience is quite breathtaking!:drool:

One big tip for the men, if your partner wears excessive fake tan, DO NOT wear a nice white shirt, it wont stay white for long and it aint pretty! :sick: :D

Something else quite amusing happened during one of the freestyle breaks... two young girls (maybe 11-12yrs?) were dancing together very sweetly next to us, when suddenly one of their dresses, fell OFF:what: ... now that's a story she'll be able to tell her grandchildren! :rofl:

All in all a brilliant night!:cheers: :clap:

under par
15th-October-2005, 08:09 AM
<<SNIP LOVELY POST>>
All in all a brilliant night!:cheers: :clap:

Sounds like a great evening. must try to go next year.

Ballroom queen
15th-October-2005, 11:10 AM
All in all a brilliant night!:cheers: :clap:

I agree, I was there too - saw you two dancing! (was that floor laminate? certainly didn't look like maple to me!)

Anyway, yes, it was awesome, tickets are on sale for next year, I will certainly be there, and I bumped into several other jivers!

Now, about that latin cris-cros dress, what did she have on under it???????

The main thing I felt about the prof v amateur was the prof seemed better at floor craft, but yes, a certain amount of crashing / blocking was going on. I couldn't beleive that the dress that caught on the other couple won, I thought that beautiful blue ballroom dress should have won.

And Camilla shouldn't have wore black.

Also, if you wear fake tan, not only beware of covering your partner's white shirt, but what about that pale blue dress with a brown splodge right on her tit!!!!

What a fantastic night out, who wants to go to blackpool? Standing room only now for 2006, so who wants seats for 2007????????

Lory
15th-October-2005, 11:51 AM
I agree, I was there too - saw you two dancing! :blush:


(was that floor laminate? certainly didn't look like maple to me!)
I'm not sure what it was but it was much stickier than I thought it'd be!

About the floor... weren't the floor sweepers funny, I think they should have been called 'the floor sweeping formation team'! :rofl:



Now, about that latin cris-cros dress, what did she have on under it???????Do you mean the one where she was literally half naked?:really: For me, that was the worst dress of the night, when she turned sideway, she looked like she was in the nude :sick:


And Camilla shouldn't have wore black.Yes, she's already quite a lot taller and skinnier (if thats possible) than the others.


Also, if you wear fake tan, not only beware of covering your partner's white shirt, but what about that pale blue dress with a brown splodge right on her tit!!!!:rofl:

Kev F
15th-October-2005, 01:24 PM
One big tip for the men, if your partner wears excessive fake tan, DO NOT wear a nice white shirt, it wont stay white for long and it aint pretty! :sick: :D

I soooo wish I'd read this post before applying my fake tan for tonights dancing.:D And I'm not sure if my shirt being undone to the navel will be upsetting to the ladies? :confused:

Lory
15th-October-2005, 02:41 PM
And I'm not sure if my shirt being undone to the navel will be upsetting to the ladies? :confused:
Oh I'm sure they'll get over it! :wink:

David Bailey
15th-October-2005, 04:14 PM
Anyway, back to the Tango thing... I today acquired (thanks Clive :wink: ) a lovely CD of the music we've been listening to in the classes.

Re-listening to it, the beat seems quite strong on most of the tracks. However, I'm sure when I did a couple of Tango lessons a few years ago, it was almost impossible to hear.

Do most tango tracks have a definite beat (and I just missed it)? Or is it maybe just the tracks they're using to teach us, to make it easier for us to follow the timing?

Clive Long
17th-October-2005, 07:22 AM
Sunday 16 October, Rojo y Negro, Kew

Bianca's lessons are where I started exploring Argentinian Tango. If it wasn't such a crummy, "unreliable" drive (in terms of traffic level) from Finchley to Kew, I wouldn't have explored other class options.

Bianca has a strong personality but I feel it is channelled into wanting you to become a better dancer rather than being a power thing. She claims she is the best teacher. Bianca's movements are strong and athletic. She can achieve a posture that supports very positive movements but can slow up and retain balance. This may be because she has taught the male lead a fair amount.

I hadn't been to this Bianca class in almost a year. There were various reasons for that and I felt I wanted to try this class again. But, you know, the longer you leave it, the more difficult it becomes to just get back through that door.

The venue is St. James' (?) in The Avenue, Kew, West London. The upper part of the nave of the church has been "isolated" into a great dance area with a great wooden floor by the contruction of a complete "ceiling/floor" above the nave of the church. This is a really quality construction job and is spacious for dancing.

The class was attended by 3 couples and me.

There was a slightly depressing air at the class. Bianca said it might not be viable to continue - the vagueries of running "drop in" dance classes.

All this writing and nothing about the dancing yet.

Bianca likes "dissociation". This is where the shoulders and torso move "independently" of the hips and legs. If you can master this, you can create far more dramatic looking poses and a greater "contrast" in your movement. I'm thinking that even in a social dance, the desire to look good (even if no-one is watching) is as important as dancing well with your partner. The exercise was to walk and look forward while rotating the shoulders and torso "away" from the direction of walk. One's hips still had to stay in the line of movement. This was all very tricky (for a relative beginner) because I haven't developed a real sense of where the bits of my body are in relation to each other.

We also worked on a side step/slide. There was a lot of focus on placing the "ball" of the "projected" foot on the floor and positioning one's ankle to align with the "line" of the extended leg. Keep those hips level and facing "forward" !!

We then progressed to adding a pivot on to the side step/slide - and then into ocho. The entry "into" the ocho required a half-step weight change by the men - all that "quick stuff" I find really difficult. The point of this weight change is that for one step "opposed" legs (in contrast to walking) of the partners are moving - this gets the man in the position to easily pivot the woman. This will take much work for me to ingrain.
Interesting note for me, that once one starts the woman on the ocho one completes by executing the pivot of the woman at the end. To reverse direction, one "interrupts" the movement of the woman half-way thorugh and reverses her direction before pivoting her. I think the idea is one does not "push" one's partner in the ocho - I find that really hard to achieve.

Bianca asserts that a woman has to know 3 types of movement to dance Tango

1. Stepping (Forwards, backwards, sideways)
2. Pivoting
3. Something else I can't remember.

and then she can participate in a social dance with any lead.

I think the woman needs to know more: transfer of weight between feet, maintaining the axis, following the man, torso alignment - but hey! Who has the experience here ?!

Will I go back? I feel I can learn much from Bianca. I would just have to accept the hour's journey there-and-back around the crummiest part of the North Circular in West London on a Sunday evening. I also feel guilty about not going. Jury is out.

Clive

Ballroom queen
18th-October-2005, 07:39 PM
Hi all, not sure if this fits ballroom / Latin options in North London - its more west than north, but hey.

Last night I went to Hannes and Amy's first "go it alone" group ballroom and latin class, and it was great!

There were not many of us, mainly from the old strictly no sequins class, and a few from other class(es) they have taught. Unfortunatly more ladies than guys, but to be honest it didn't really matter so much as in a traditional ceroc style class.

It was very informal, mainly guys behind Hannes, girls behind Amy, when we took partners Hannes and Amy would go round and dance with us all, and when necessary Amy danced as man, which as ever is always very informative. Dancing with Hannes from time to time gets the posture and hold corrected, oh its hard!!!

We did Waltz and Cha Cha, and because Hannes and Amy pretty much new us all and what we can do he was able to pitch the class appropriately, rather than the "strictly no sequins" system of having to have a beginners and intermediate class.

They also gave us pointers for each of us to concentrate on - those of us with more experience to add detail to make it more complex - but more correct / stylish.

Next week they will continue with Waltz and Cha Cha, the week after they will do 2 new dances.

They will be doing all dances, including "ballroom" jive, ballroom Tango, and I hope real slow foxtrot. Whether they will do scary stuff like Paso and quick waltz I don't know - I guess it'll depend on the group!!!

So, to all you budding dancers out there wanting something more than MJ do come and join us, its only 7 quid, Chiswick Town Hall, 8pm to 10pm, Monday nights. Lots of street parking, also near the district line tube.

A few of us went for coffee afterwards in a nice tapas bar, civilised and non-smoking rounding the evening off nicely.

El Salsero Gringo
18th-October-2005, 08:01 PM
Hi all, not sure if this fits ballroom / Latin options in North London - its more west than north, but hey.
Interesting. Price?

ChrisA
18th-October-2005, 08:55 PM
So, to all you budding dancers out there wanting something more than MJ do come and join us, its only 7 quid, Chiswick Town Hall, 8pm to 10pm, Monday nights.
Ooh.

Is that a 2 hour class, or is there a class and a bit of freestyle? Could do this sometimes, and maybe skive the end and drive like the clappers up to Kent House sometimes for the best of both worlds.

It's a thought.

El Salsero Gringo
18th-October-2005, 10:23 PM
Interesting. Price?
7 quidOh yeah, you did say. Sorry.

Ballroom queen
19th-October-2005, 07:56 PM
Ooh.

Is that a 2 hour class, or is there a class and a bit of freestyle? Could do this sometimes, and maybe skive the end and drive like the clappers up to Kent House sometimes for the best of both worlds.

It's a thought.

Its class from 8pm sharp to about 9.30pm, then freestyle. We have to start promptly because they need to be OUT by 10pm, so yes, at the moment doing ths 8-9.30pm then up the road to kent house is an option.

7 quid for the eve, they did have an offer of 35 quid for the first 6 weeks, don't know what further offers there will be.

Hope to see you there next week.

David Bailey
21st-October-2005, 09:23 AM
Finchley, Artsdepot, 20th October

The lovely Kika :flower: was back, yay. Although everyone seems to be working to Latin Time, including us - Landmark Forum would no doubt give all of Latin America a good talking-to.

The class is now down to a hard core of about a dozen, which is pretty good considering we're halfway through - I guess forcing people to pay for the whole course in advance pays of in retention numbers.

We spent some time walking, backwards and forwards. As Clive says, it's very therapeutic.

We split up into leaders and followers groups. Keiji talked to the guys about how to transfer weight on the forward walk to slide as part of the walk forward, and how to turn properly. Kika meanwhile taught the girls how to do backward ochos.

We got together and then practiced the zig-zaggy backward ochos - it was a bit tricky leading into it, but there's a kind of sideways-right-then-another-right move to lead the ladies into a backward ocho, and left-then-another-left into a forward. Or something like that...

We spent a long time over these forward and backward ochos, and then went over how to switch from forwards and back. We also covered keeping timing and keeping style whilst doing all this stuff - brain overload :eek:

(I thought I was doing well, but then it was gently pointed out to me that we were only dancing to half-time :blush: )

Excellent class, as always. Half-way through now :grin:

Clive Long
22nd-October-2005, 08:54 AM
Tango Practica, Tufnell Park

A Tango Practica, my first! I believe this is the type of event where novice through to expert dancers can go and practice any Tango step, move, figure, whatever. This is what I need at the moment. I hope the natives will be friendly.

The event will be at

The Dome, N19
178 Junction Road N19 5QQ
tel: 020 7272 8153
travel: Tube: Tufnell Park

On Monday 24 October. Lesson 7:30pm to 8:30pm then practica. Unfortunately this clashes with Stefano and Alexandra at TangoInAction and Jango (bl00dy Jango (c) DavidJames)

Yes, I will write a review for this thread :rolleyes:


Clive

Clive Long
24th-October-2005, 10:09 PM
Tango Practica, Dome, Tufnell Park, Monday 24 October

My take on Tufnell Park. Many streets of 3-storey terraced houses that stretch between Archway, Tufnell Park & Kentish Town over to Finsbury Park. Originally was well to do or at least aspirational then fell victim to bed-sittism in the 60's and became very grubby. Now houses being bought up, "re-integrated" and the place slowly gentrified (i.e. made astronomically expensive).

Why is all this relevant? Can't think really. Except when you exit Tufnell Park station on a wet, dreary Monday evening you think "what am I doing here?"

I found "The Dome" through an inconspicuous side entrance next to the recently decorated "Bostonian" pub (serves Guiness). The "teacher" was sprinkling loads of talc on the floor and brushing it in. The floor was a bit like a sticky carpet - probably because the place is often used as a night-club (disco?) and much beer ends up on the floor.

I wrote "teacher" because no teaching actually went on - although there was suggestion it would. I turned up at 7:30pm and bumped into one of the women from the Finchley class. There was only the teacher and two other people doing stretching exercises. Anyway, the teacher encouraged us to "just dance". This is fine, great, super - but when you know little it becomes fantastically monotonous for the woman. Another woman from the Finchley class turned up and I "danced" with her. The first woman left because not much "directed" activity was taking place so I "danced" with Pam for a further hour. She was a darling. Happy to just walk around, endlessly practice entering ochos, talking about hip alignment, torso alignment, tolerant of minute dissections of each move.

Other people drifted in. As "The Wise One" (aka. DavidJames) has written - Latin Dance events seem subject to Latin Time i.e. flexible.

Now I seem very down on all this - in fact I'm just adjusting to the "rules" of the Practica game. It seems everyone goes in fixed couples and they range from competent to silky smooth in their movement. There is no change of dance partner - I think people would be offended you interrupted their "routine" or "regime". Having loads of room to move is bliss, sheer bliss. I will go back but I will have a list of things I want to practice and make it clear to anyone I invite what the "style" of the evening will be.

Clive

David Bailey
25th-October-2005, 09:13 AM
{ snip Tufnell park tourism guide :) }

She was a darling. Happy to just walk around, endlessly practice entering ochos, talking about hip alignment, torso alignment, tolerant of minute dissections of each move.
I think you've found your soulmate, Clive :)


Now I seem very down on all this - in fact I'm just adjusting to the "rules" of the Practica game. It seems everyone goes in fixed couples and they range from competent to silky smooth in their movement.
Is "Practica" different from "Milonga" then?

I know almost nothing of the social scene in Argentinian Tango, but I assumed people still swapped around dance partners?

Clive Long
25th-October-2005, 10:10 AM
Is "Practica" different from "Milonga" then?

I know almost nothing of the social scene in Argentinian Tango, but I assumed people still swapped around dance partners?
AFAIK Milonga is used both for a style of dance (http://www.afterfive.co.uk/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=guide:milonga&s=tango) or see (http://www.lafi.org/magazine/articles/tango.html) and separately a "Freestyle" dance event - although I can't find a supporting reference for the "freestyle event" idea in 5 minutes of Googling.

Practica is an event where you practice anything Tango related (I'm guessing) with a fixed dance partner.

Spin Dr?

CRL

JonD
25th-October-2005, 10:16 AM
Is "Practica" different from "Milonga" then?
Yes - a Milonga is effectively a freestyle while a Practica is a practice session. At a Milonga it would be considered rude to interupt the line of dance while you sort out a problem or discuss a possibility but that is fine at a Practica.

Just the other day Ruth, who teaches in Totnes, sent out a "round robin" email pointing out the difference. Evidently some followers were criticising and "teaching" leaders (without invitation) at the weekly Milonga and it was putting some of the leaders off and making them very self-conscious. Like a freestyle, a Milonga is about everyone having fun, dancing with each other and adjusting their dance to suit their partner. While a Practica is still fun it is normally about spending some time with a fixed partner working on a particular element of the dance. I wouldn't turn up to one on spec - I'd always arrange to go with the partner I wanted to work with. Sometimes there is a teacher present to help out if you can't resolve an issue yourselves but normally it is just a bunch of dancers who all help each other if asked.

I do wish that "Milonga" didn't have three meanings. I know that you can normally work out if it is a social dance, a type of music or a style of dance from the context but it means I have to think!

David Bailey
25th-October-2005, 10:25 AM
{ snip excellent answer}
Thanks - that's exactly what I wanted to know. :worthy:

So I guess the motto is, take someone along to a practica, or at least know that people will be there you can practice with.


I do wish that "Milonga" didn't have three meanings. I know that you can normally work out if it is a social dance, a type of music or a style of dance from the context but it means I have to think!
Yes, it is very confusing. Silly language... :devil:

And:

although I can't find a supporting reference for the "freestyle event" idea in 5 minutes of Googling.
To quote this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tango_%28dance%29), "Tango dancers usually meet at Milongas, held in Buenos Aires and many other mayor cities world wide."

Tsk, tsk, Clive, can't believe you didn't check Wikipedia, lose 2 geek points...

JonD
25th-October-2005, 10:39 AM
I did a workshop on "Volcadas" (sp?) last night - didn't have a clue as to what they were when I turned up but then discovered that I've done them before! (It's kind of difficult to explain - where you lead the follower to share a balance with you, lean on you, and cause her free leg to swing down and forward/to the side/wrap round one of your legs etc.).

I find the following links useful for they aren't that comprehensive:
Ernesto's Tango Page (http://members.ping.at/kdf-wien/tango/)
Definition of Tango Terms (http://www.cyber-tango.com/art/t_term.html)

David Bailey
4th-November-2005, 04:35 PM
Slightly delayed writeup:

Finchley, 3rd November, artsdepot

Alas, The Long One is soon departing, so he's left me to fend for myself, fighting off the Finchley Tangoistas.

Alone.

*sniff*

Anyway, it was hard work this week. We did 10 minutes "standing correctly" (!), only 10 mins walking, then we were straight into the moves.

We reviewed forward and back ochos, leading into a forward ocho, and going from forward to backwards.

We also covered two new things:
- changing from parallel-movement to cross-movement (with a little change-of-weight step for the man), and using this change to smoothly get into and out of moves like ochos.
- leading the lady to a position where one foot is crossed in front of the other - this was very tricky...

It definitely felt like more of a Proper Dance Class this week, with those two distinct moves. It was a lot to take in for one session (it may not sound it, but it was), and I didn't really feel that we had the opportunity to practice them enough.

I think maybe I should start thinking of doing one of these Practica sessions, as described ^^ up there somewhere by Clive....

DianaS
4th-November-2005, 05:56 PM
I missed two weeks of my classes due to CJ's band and other important business and re entered my group wonding if I would be able to pick it up again.
Every week develops a little more from the last its a kind of spiralling curriculum so I was a tad nervous.

The friendly smiles etc were warming and one of the more advanced dancers again partnered me for the sessions. (I have yet to dance with a true beginner.) More interestingly the demo worked along side me showing and emphaising the steps and patterms and working with me very closely.

I so enjoy it, and the teacher added little emphaises to our movements demonstrating the acute angles of tangle via a via the smoothness of the waltz.

The nicest part is dancing with the ladies they are so supportive and gentle, I find the context in which we learn as beautiful as the patterns that we are being encouraged to develop..

It's a truely provincial class, with ladies, variocose veins and samll talk around children and grandchildren but a genuine love of dance and of people.

I omitted to take my note pad so I'll have to review the class another time, but I'm thinking of taking the exams that are being talked about. Does any one know though what they are?:flower:

David Bailey
10th-November-2005, 10:13 PM
Finchley, 10th November (Week 7, for those of you keeping count)

The Man Of Longitude having departed, here's my write-up:

We started, you guessed it, doing some walking, then some standing. Amazingly, this week I actually felt something, I think for a brief moment I may have been standing correctly, but then I lost it.

(As an aside, this to me has to be the most frustrating part of learning AT - you "get it" for one second, you feel how it should be done, but then it's impossible to get the beggar back, and from that point on, you feel like an elephant clumping around the floor. Grrr...)

We then did some forward ochos - and Kikka was not happy with them. So we then spent a half-hour practicing dissassociation - heads and torsos turning before the body, basically.

The second half of the class was almost a routine; I won't attempt to describe it in detail, except to say that it involved leading a lady into a cross, then forward-ocho-ing her, then leading her around the man's body - all without the man moving his feet...

I managed to get this, kind of, by the end; but my posture was rubbish. Oh well, I can keep on telling myself I'm just a beginner...

Each week is harder and harder, but at least I now feel I could dance a whole tango song in freestyle - OK, it'd be half-speed, and 90% of it would be walking forwards and back, but it's progress.

Lory
10th-November-2005, 10:38 PM
The second half of the class was almost a routine;
A ROUTINE!!!:eek:

Heaven forbid,:really: our AT teacher would positively despair at reading this.. :cool:

She's adamant, that each and every individual step has a beginning and an end and the follower should always come back to the 'gathered' position, ready for another movement in ANY direction.

She should never move, without being moved... Anticipation being the highest sin she could commit.:devil:

The leader will gradually learn all the possibilities open to him but it's up to him, in which order he chooses to use them:waycool: :worthy: we NEVER learn that one move 'should' follow another.:innocent:

David Bailey
10th-November-2005, 10:46 PM
A ROUTINE!!!:eek:
Well, relatively speaking - "one move" might be more appropriate from a MJ perspective; about 5 seconds of movement in reality. But that's about 4 seconds more than we've learnt normally.


She's adamant, that each and every individual step has a beginning and an end and the follower should always come back to the 'gathered' position, ready for another movement in ANY direction.
Interesting, I've not heard that one before... possibly that's for the Advanced dancers? In truth, the only moves we've been shown have been more like demonstrations of principle than anything else, so there's probably not a lot of clear water between the two.


She should never move, without being moved... Anticipation being the highest sin she could commit.:devil:
Mike Ellard used to rate anticipation as slightly above BO in the "sin" lexicon, I recall... :)


The leader will gradually learn all the possibilities open to him but it's up to him, in which order he chooses to use them:waycool: :worthy: we NEVER learn that one move 'should' follow another.:innocent:
Sorry if I gave that impression, but we've never learnt that either. Calling it a "routine" was silly - I humbly apologise...

For what it's worth, I broke down the move myself and only ever used it in a "freestyle" context, i.e. leading it as unexpectedly as I could, varying the timing etc.

JonD
11th-November-2005, 01:19 AM
In truth, the only moves we've been shown have been more like demonstrations of principle than anything else
So, not a routine but a figure designed to allow you and the follower to explore a principle or type of movement. We have to learn to execute a giro and that can only be done if we dance a giro. There are lots of different types and using one to give the leader the opportunity to learn to lead forward ocho into side step into backward ocho into side step, and the follower to learn to stay on the circumference of the circle, in balance, taking the same size steps isn't a bad idea.

I have to admit that I do sometimes take some figures that I've learnt this way and use them, verbatim, in my dance. I'm not skilled enough to be able to construct every movement "on the fly" all the time although I am beginning to discover the possibilities and play with them. It's also teaching me the importance of dancing with lots of different followers: if I lead a particular giro with Julie she recognises what I'm doing and it works fine but I had the salutary experience of Gisela, Bryony and Ruth all just stopping when I tried to lead it with them! (More disassociation was required - so that's what I did the next time I led it with Julie who promptly accelerated her turn to warp factor 9. This AT lark is a bit tricky isn't it?)

There's got to be a balance between learning technique and figures - I remember being incredibly frustrated at not having the "vocabulary" to express myself in AT because I hadn't been taught anything resembling moves. Technique must come first otherwise you find you are "apeing" AT rather than dancing it but it is nice to be able to throw in a lapis or something every now and then!


She should never move, without being moved... Anticipation being the highest sin she could commit
I agree on the anticipation thing but I don't agree that the follower should never move without being moved. I like followers who are not entirely passive. It's possible for the follower to "take over the lead" and the leader to sense that this is what she wants to do and give her the space to contribute to the interpretation of the music. This is most common when the follower takes time to do a decoration but she can also take a step or provide a resistance. Julie, after a couple of glasses of red wine, has been known to take this to extremes:last Sunday I led a simple backward ocho and, before I knew it, she'd done a giro round me and tied my legs in a knot!

David Bailey
11th-November-2005, 09:04 AM
Technique must come first otherwise you find you are "apeing" AT rather than dancing it
I'm definitely still at the ape stage. Ook ook. :sad:

I do understand about the technique, at least intellectually, but when the teacher's slapped your leg for the 9th time to get it into the right position, it's so tempting to just try to dance and see how it works from there. I know, I know, that's the road to hell, it'll ingrain bad habits etc...


I agree on the anticipation thing but I don't agree that the follower should never move without being moved. I like followers who are not entirely passive. It's possible for the follower to "take over the lead" and the leader to sense that this is what she wants to do and give her the space to contribute to the interpretation of the music. This is most common when the follower takes time to do a decoration but she can also take a step or provide a resistance.
Yes - I don't know enough to make a judgement, but I'd have thought that there is a large degree of latitude, by the "invitational" nature of the lead in AT, for the follower to take the initiative and interpret away - in fact, it'd be difficult to stop her I imagine. This would seem to be more of an avenue for "active following" than MJ, in fact.

And I'm shocked to find Lory being a passive follower, my world's crumbling around me... :whistle:

ducasi
11th-November-2005, 09:23 AM
Mike Ellard used to rate anticipation as slightly above BO in the "sin" lexicon, I recall... :yeah:
I totally agree.

David Bailey
24th-November-2005, 10:40 PM
Well, after missing last week's session, I once again ventured into the world of AT tonight.

The first thing I found out, and which makes me :sick: I forgot to video Sat's SCD, was that my teacher (my teacher) was one of the professional demos used in the later SCD session! She was the last one, apparently, dressed in black. I totally didn't recognise her though :(

Anyway, this week we did two things: double-time (changing without warning, which I found great fun, charging around the floor), and The Turn.

For the turn, we all had a chair to walk around, and we had to practice a sequence of 4 steps (in different directions). And then we had to practice it in couples. Which made us all extremely dizzy...

We finished off with a sequence, with the lady doing a forward ocho over the man's leg. I suspect they may well turn this sequence into a gancho next week - which is the last of the series :(

frodo
28th-November-2005, 12:58 AM
...

Last night I went to Hannes and Amy's first "go it alone" group ballroom and latin class, and it was great!

...

Next week they will continue with Waltz and Cha Cha, the week after they will do 2 new dances.

They will be doing all dances, including "ballroom" jive, ballroom Tango, and I hope real slow foxtrot. Whether they will do scary stuff like Paso and quick waltz I don't know - I guess it'll depend on the group!!!

So, to all you budding dancers out there wanting something more than MJ do come and join us, its only 7 quid, Chiswick Town Hall, 8pm to 10pm, Monday nights. Lots of street parking, also near the district line tube.
...

I think they get to the Ballroom Tango ( and Ballroom Samba ) next week. Hannes & Amy taught some Samba in a NoSequins workshop. I'm not sure if it was covered or not in the weekly classes.


I just noticed Len Goodman did a little video lesson on each of the dances which can be found at, which seems IMO OK for what it is.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/broadband/mediawrapper/consoles/strictlycomedancing/bb_rm_console.shtml?pack4

David Bailey
2nd-December-2005, 10:53 AM
Finchley, 1st December: The Last Lesson

"And now, the end is near;
And so I faced the final ocho
My friend, I’ll say it clear,
I’ll state my presence, of which I’m certain.

I’ve danced a class that’s full.
I’ve danced each and ev’ry poor way;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way." etc. :tears:

Yes, it was the end of the 10-week session. and 9 of us (out of the original 16) were still hanging on at the end. When you consider that two had been promoted to the Upper Class, I think that's extremely good going, and a testament to Kicca's (OK, I got the spelling of her name wrong all this time, I admit it) teaching.

For nostalgia's sake, we started off with a bit of walking :)

But we then got into some serious learning. For the last lesson, they showed us what, for want of a better term, I'll call a routine. And, before people start going ballistic about this, I'd like to emphasize that they repeatedly said (probably a dozen or more times), that this is just to illustrate how a sequence can be put together, to give an example of how dancing can happen with even a relatively simple set of moves.

Having said that, I think most of us did anticipate a bit, and it certainly hammered home to me how poor a method of teaching it is to just show a routine. We covered the cross-step, cross-timing, a "hero" (?) - lady walks around the guy - and ochos of course.

We spent most of the class covering this area - for the last half-hour we were shown a closer hold, which disconcerted a lot of the ladies (we'd been in ballroom-type hold up until then). Or, possibly it just disconcerted the ladies I'd been dancing with... :blush:

I was told my "chest has good presence" - which I think probably means I've got man-boobs, but it sounded like a compliment at the time :innocent:

We didn't get to do ganchos, which was a shame, but I'm sure they'll be covered in the next 10-week session ("intermediates", hah!), which starts in late Jan - I'll definitely sign up for that.

So... after ten weeks, I think I'm confident to dance freestyle - that's the MJ legacy helping, I know it doesn't matter if I mess up, and the beat's relatively easy for most of the tracks we've been dancing to. I'm also confident that I can more-or-less lead (in descending order of competence) any forward / back / side variations, ochos, crosses and heros.

I'm also extremely aware that my posture, technique and hips are just awful, and that I still lead much more with my arms and shoulders than I should, and much less with my torso.

Our little group is going to try a Practica group outing thing in North London (Tufnell Park) on Weds, so that should be fun - anyone else want to come along for that, let me know and I'll PM you the details.

P.S. Thanks, Clive, for persuading me to come along, it's been a great experience.

JonD
2nd-December-2005, 05:34 PM
a "hero" (?)
Giro - as in turn. Pronounced "hero" though.

Blimey - you covered a lot in 10 weeks! That is good going. And the chest thing is a hell of a compliment. It's great to have a little "routine" you can use to practice and also to throw into freestyle every now and then so at least some bits look and feel fluent! At least, that's what I do ......

Now all you've got to do is practice and "walk your miles" - just think, only about another 6 years 9 months until you can say you can walk. Sorry!!

David Bailey
11th-December-2005, 08:19 PM
Giro - as in turn. Pronounced "hero" though.
Aha, thanks :)


Blimey - you covered a lot in 10 weeks! That is good going.
Kicca's a great teacher :worthy:


Now all you've got to do is practice and "walk your miles" - just think, only about another 6 years 9 months until you can say you can walk. Sorry!!
That sounds about right.

I went to my very first Milonga on Wednesday (Tufnell Park, The Dome). It was incredibly scary, fortunately a group of us beginners went together, so we huddled together and danced together.

I know, I know, we'll only really improve once we dance with more experienced dancers; but we're wusses, what can I say... :sad:

I did get a couple of dances with an experienced partner - one faster one, which was abysmal (on my part), and one slower one, which was lovely. So, I'm getting there, just very slowly...

JonD
12th-December-2005, 11:40 AM
I did get a couple of dances with an experienced partner - one faster one, which was abysmal (on my part), and one slower one, which was lovely. So, I'm getting there, just very slowly...
I bet you'd be surprised how good the fast one looked even though it felt pretty horrible! Julie videoed me dancing with a super, wonderful, gorgeous, fantastic dancer called Gisela at the last "Tango Mango" - to make matters worse, Gisela is also an accomplished teacher. I was so, so nervous. I felt I was useless; uninspired, clumsy, poor leads, wobbling all over the place, just yuk. When I saw the video I was amazed by how good the dance looked - it's amazing how much a good follower can cover!

David Bailey
12th-December-2005, 11:53 AM
I bet you'd be surprised how good the fast one looked even though it felt pretty horrible!
I doubt it - I suspect it looked like (at best) a waltz rather than a tango.

It's a good suggestion about video-ing though, I may see if I can get someone to do that for me.

Lynn
12th-December-2005, 11:56 AM
Off thread as not North London.. but this thread did give me a nudge to email the Arg Tango teacher who did a taster class last month - and just heard back that she is planning some classes in Belfast in January. Starting 6th Jan! :clap:

JonD
12th-December-2005, 12:57 PM
Starting 6th Jan!
Fantastic!

We'll have to have an unofficial milonga at Southport in June - Sunday afternoon, swing & blues room.

Lynn
12th-December-2005, 01:07 PM
Fantastic!

We'll have to have an unofficial milonga at Southport in June - Sunday afternoon, swing & blues room.Oh, good idea!

(And there will be a tango couple teaching workshops, so very appropriate.)

Lynn
20th-December-2005, 10:43 PM
:clap: Got my brochure today for the Arts Centre where the AT course is running from January - all the times, dates etc.:clap: I think it runs for 10 or 11 weeks, which should give me enough of a flavour of it to know if I want to learn more.

(Sorry Clive, some of us have rather hijacked your thread away from North London a bit, maybe we need a general 'Arg Tango' thread?)

JonD
21st-December-2005, 12:06 AM
... AT course is running from January ...
Fantastic! Who is teaching - let's see if we can find out about them. You'll love it. What a dance! I envy you that first occasion when you really lose yourself in a Tango. It's sublime! You've got to promise to keep us posted on progress.


Sorry Clive, some of us have rather hijacked your thread away from North London a bit
Yes, sorry Clive. In a vain effort to make this post relevant, I'll tell you that Eric Jeurissen teaches regularly in London. There aren't any 2006 dates on his website (El Corte (http://www.elcorte.com)) yet but keep your eye on it. I did six hours of workshops with him last weekend and all I can say is "fabulous". What a teacher! He has the reputation of being the best European AT teacher and I can believe it. The way he handled a mixed ability group was an education in itself. He's also a really lovely guy, very modest and approachable. As for the way he dances - well, it shouldn't be allowed. Just brilliant; relaxed, controlled, precise, full of emotion and so musical. He remembered Julie and I from the New Year Tango Marathon last year and knew that we're going to be back in Nijmegen this year - only 10 days to wait!

Lynn
21st-December-2005, 04:48 PM
Fantastic! Who is teaching - let's see if we can find out about them. Audrey Martinez Flanagan - she now lives in NI as she married someone from here, but AFAIK she used to teach in NY. I have been at a taster class she ran as part of the Belfast week of dance and I enjoyed it, so am looking forward to the classes.

You'll love it. What a dance! I envy you that first occasion when you really lose yourself in a Tango. It's sublime! You've got to promise to keep us posted on progress.I think I will like it, I have sampled various dance styles over the past year and found I am more drawn to some than others. I do feel drawn to Tango, but I might find it all beyond me, I'll report back! I might start another thread though as its definitely not in North London!

David Bailey
21st-December-2005, 09:21 PM
I do feel drawn to Tango, but I might find it all beyond me
I don't think so - based on your footwork and following on Friday, you'll be fine :clap:

Lynn
22nd-December-2005, 12:41 AM
I don't think so - based on your footwork and following on Friday, you'll be fine :clap:What, like the bit where I said 'oh, I'm supposed to be doing ochos now aren't I?' :rofl: :blush:

David Bailey
22nd-December-2005, 09:26 AM
What, like the bit where I said 'oh, I'm supposed to be doing ochos now aren't I?' :rofl: :blush:
:rofl: everyone does that, I think it's my lead rather than your follow...

Clive Long
22nd-December-2005, 09:43 AM
<< snip >>
(Sorry Clive, some of us have rather hijacked your thread away from North London a bit, maybe we need a general 'Arg Tango' thread?)
No worries. Just because I started the thread, I don't "own" it in any way. I have really enjoyed the contributions to it and have learned some really valuable things - that's the real payoff to me from participating to this forum.

It would be great to see an "AT in NI" thread - with its own character. Such a thread wouldn't "compete" with this one not try to emulate it. Who knows, I might be able to make some time to visit your manor.

Clive

Lynn
22nd-December-2005, 11:34 AM
It would be great to see an "AT in NI" thread - with its own character. Such a thread wouldn't "compete" with this one not try to emulate it. Who knows, I might be able to make some time to visit your manor. I might do, though of course then I would probably be the only one posting on it unless some folk do come and visit! Perhaps a 'learning AT' thread, then its more open for others in different areas to post on.

You would be welcome to visit anytime - we will have ceroc here as well, so I am hoping that there will be some visiting dancers next year!

David Bailey
8th-January-2006, 08:17 PM
OK, I'm trying to organise an outing to a Tango "Practica" (lesson + freestyle) on Monday 16th Jan, at the Dome in Tufnell Park.

So far, I've got 3 guys pencilled-in (me, Kev F and Long), but only 1 woman (although that woman is Lory :drool: ). Anyone else up for it, or will I have to lead Weginald again?

Katie
10th-January-2006, 12:23 AM
OK, I'm trying to organise an outing to a Tango "Practica" (lesson + freestyle) on Monday 16th Jan, at the Dome in Tufnell Park.


Is it close to the tube station? How much? Would it suit a beginner-ish?

David Bailey
10th-January-2006, 08:56 AM
Is it close to the tube station? How much? Would it suit a beginner-ish?
It's very close - 2 mins walk.
The address is 178 Junction Road, Tufnell Park, London N19 5QQ

I think (I haven't been there before) it's about £7, the lesson starts around 7.30 and the freestyle is from 8.30 onwards. I very much hope it caters for beginners, because I'm one :)

The roll call is now: Kev, Weg, moi, Lory, and Foxylady. Plus, possibly a surprise blonde guest if she can get the evening off.

Katie
10th-January-2006, 05:54 PM
Thanks for the info DJ. I'm very tempted, especially with the opportunity to watch some freestyle. Put me as a maybe. :flower:

David Bailey
10th-January-2006, 08:40 PM
Put me as a maybe. :flower:
Good grief.. herding cats... :rolleyes: :na:

Tiggerbabe
10th-January-2006, 08:46 PM
Good grief.. herding cats... :rolleyes: :na:
Well, if it helps, I'm very sorry, David, but I can't make Monday the 16th :tears:

(although it's only 3 sleeps after that till I fly to London and then to Miami for the Cruise :D )

Petal
11th-January-2006, 12:26 PM
Of the teachers:

Stefano is a strong yet fluid dancer. He is a "real man" - not flash or bumptious. Women must fall for him.

Alexandra is just stunning. Such grace and sensuality - without being "tacky" .



:yeah:

Did about four months of AT lessons last year and loved it. You didn't have to take a partner, but i was so lucky , my favourite mj partner agreed to be my AT partner. :nice: :hug: The teacher makes us change partners throughout the class, but we try to dance together as much as we can.
AT is fantastic and it looks so good and so effortless when its done by Stefano and Alexandra. They did a weekend of workshops in Aberdeen last year which were fantastic, i could have watch them all day.

LMC
15th-January-2006, 12:32 PM
The Dome at Tufnell Park also does "Basics" lessons on a Tuesday - "The "basics" class is intended not just for beginners but also for intermediate dancers (that's why we don't call it "beginners"). What you learn in this class is the foundation of your dancing. "

I like that approach, and e-mailed to find out whether a complete beginner can join at any time - and they can :D

Yes, it was me that didn't book in time for the artsdepot course :rolleyes: (see other Tango thread). The start date was over a week away for goodness sake...

David Bailey
15th-January-2006, 01:24 PM
The Dome at Tufnell Park also does "Basics" lessons on a Tuesday - "The "basics" class is intended not just for beginners but also for intermediate dancers (that's why we don't call it "beginners"). What you learn in this class is the foundation of your dancing. "

I might pop along to that as well at some point, although 2 tango sessions a week would be a clear sign of addiction.

I can give it up anytime, it's just a habit... :innocent:

Lynn
15th-January-2006, 01:30 PM
Yes, it was me that didn't book in time for the artsdepot course :rolleyes: (see other Tango thread). The start date was over a week away for goodness sake...:hug: Next time...

I might pop along to that as well at some point, although 2 tango sessions a week would be a clear sign of addiction.

I can give it up anytime, it's just a habit... :innocent:All this talk of addiction is worrying, maybe I shouldn't start AT after all...! :what: :rofl:

David Bailey
15th-January-2006, 10:53 PM
OK, I'm trying to organise an outing to a Tango "Practica" (lesson + freestyle) on Monday 16th Jan, at the Dome in Tufnell Park.
Reminder: this is tomorrow night, there should be about 4-6 of us going, and we'll be the ones huddled panic-stricken in a corner... :eek:

PM me if you want any more details.

Clive Long
17th-January-2006, 12:20 AM
OK, I'm trying to organise an outing to a Tango "Practica" (lesson + freestyle) on Monday 16th Jan, at the Dome in Tufnell Park.

Thanks for organising this DJ.

Nice to see Katie, CeeCee and FoxyLady at the Dome. Sorry ladies that the standard of available dancing was rather basic.

I really want to make this Monday opportunity part of my "dance landscape". Discipline, commitment. JFDI.

Top tip: The rather dreary and formulaic "entertainment park" in North Finchley between David Lloyd's and the NCR is home to a lovely "Mexican" restaurant, ChimiChanga's. Good laugh with good friends.


Weginald

foxylady
17th-January-2006, 12:43 AM
OK, I'm trying to organise an outing to a Tango "Practica" (lesson + freestyle) on Monday 16th Jan, at the Dome in Tufnell Park.

So far, I've got 3 guys pencilled-in (me, Kev F and Long), but only 1 woman (although that woman is Lory :drool: ). Anyone else up for it, or will I have to lead Weginald again?

Thanks for organising David. Sorry I ducked out and fled to Jango, but I'm not good at sitting on the sidelines watching for very long....

might have to try a Milonga one day instead...

Foxy

Whitebeard
17th-January-2006, 01:24 AM
Tonight's class out here in the provinces had a section to the count:

1 2 3 - 5 6 7 -

Never thought I would hear that on a Ceroc night. Whatever is the World coming to?

David Bailey
17th-January-2006, 10:30 AM
Thanks for organising this DJ.
Glad to see you all there.

The format was new for me - an hour (!) of nothing but technique. I think it went:
- 5 mins stretching
- 15 mins trying to stand correctly
- 20 mins walking forwards and backwards
- 15 mins sidesteps
- 5 Mixing forwards, sides and backwards

Now that's proper dancing for you. None of this partner work, routines, or music rubbish... :waycool:

We then did about an hour of practice - mainly with the same partners. A "practica" session, as I understand it, is just that, an opportunity to practice. So you generally need one or two people to practice with, it's probably not a good idea to just turn up on your own.

It was extremely useful to me - I even tried ganchos, even though I've not been taught them - they seemed to work OK, but what do I know?

The practicas are a great opportunity to complement the work we do in the classes. The problem I know have is not enough time in the week to do Tango, salsa and MJ. One of them's got to go, and it's definitely not going to be AT...

David Bailey
26th-January-2006, 11:41 PM
And... We're back!

Finchley, 25th Jan, artsdepot, Tango "intermediate" ( :eek: ) class, week 1.

The Clive Long and DavidJames show rolls back into action, grab your tickets here, we'll be here all term.

I've volunteered to kick this off, we may alternate. Or we may get bored, who knows.

There were about a dozen of us there. The intermediates class is immediately after the beginners, so we got a chance to sneer at the plebs as we came in and they left. Which was nice.

(OK, to be honest, I was kind of thinking "I wish I were back there, I might get the hang of it the second time round..." :blush: )

Anyway, we started off with a dance (!), not walking, to get us into the mood again.

My first two dance partners were Clive and a woman who, after one practice, immediately grabbed her bags and coat and left the class without another word. Now, that's not the most auspicious of starts; a lesser mortal might have suffered some slight apprehension at that point. Me, I ate a mint and carried on.

We spent some time doing pivots, forward and back ochos (and no, there's no "e"), and similar. Kicca and Keiji then demonstrate how to go from a cross to a (clockwise) half-giro, to a backward ocho. We then spent, well, about an hour practising this and similar variations; then working on going from an ocho to a giro, and vice-versa, for both clockwise and counterclockwise giros. So we practised forward and back ochos, clockwise and counterclockwise giros, and getting from one to the other.

For me, the good thing about this is that it gives me an easy (ish) exit from an ocho, to get back into "mirrored" mode, without an awkward skip or weird weight change thing on my part - OK, there is a weight change, but it seems more natural when it's done as part of the giro for some reason.

Great lesson, I'm enthused :)

Although Kicca's going away for a few weeks :tears: - what are we going to do without our muse? :eek:

Lory
27th-January-2006, 08:44 AM
My first two dance partners were Clive and a woman who, after one practice, immediately grabbed her bags and coat and left the class without another word. Now, that's not the most auspicious of starts; a lesser mortal might have suffered some slight apprehension at that point. Me, I ate a mint and carried on.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :worthy:

JonD
27th-January-2006, 09:27 AM
... a lesser mortal might have suffered some slight apprehension at that point. Me, I ate a mint and carried on.
Wonderful - such aplomb - I'm totally in awe!

Petal
27th-January-2006, 11:01 AM
how to go from a cross to a (clockwise) half-giro, to a backward ocho. We then spent, well, about an hour practising this and similar variations; then working on going from an ocho to a giro, and vice-versa, for both clockwise and counterclockwise giros. So we practised forward and back ochos, clockwise and counterclockwise giros, and getting from one to the other.



Practising giros for an hour? I do one clockwise and one anti-clockwise and feel nauseas. I don't know why but everytime i feel the same, and no it's not my partner causing the nausea.:sick:

David Bailey
27th-January-2006, 11:08 AM
Practising giros for an hour? I do one clockwise and one anti-clockwise and feel nauseas. I don't know why but everytime i feel the same, and no it's not my partner causing the nausea.:sick:
Actually, yes - they made me feel a bit dizzy too.

I think it's because I'm focussing so much on the footwork, rather than anything else; I don't normally get dizzy in MJ.

CeeCee
30th-January-2006, 12:17 PM
Please accept my apologies in advance for the length of this post but I’ve totally fallen in love with dancing once again and feel inspired to share…

I thoroughly enjoyed my first two AT classes at The Dome in Tufnell Park where the teacher’s style is intensive concentration on technique. Lesson one, walking backwards, forwards and sideways, lesson two, forward and backward ochos, they were hard work.

I tried another class on Saturday where the teaching style was quite different. We started with forward and backward foot tapping and foot sweeping exercises. With 13 women and 1 man in the class we were divided into two groups which was okay because we all practised the same thing walking backwards and forwards taking in turns to lead and follow.

At the end of the first hour the classes changed from ‘beginners’ to ‘beginners plus’. The new set of people I met had been dancing from a couple of months to a couple of years or so. There were no fixed couples and the group of 7 men and 7 women changed partners frequently as we learned

The Basic 8,
The Giro,
Basic 8 with Giro,
Basic 8 with backward ochos
Basic 8 with ocho and sandwich
Basic 8 with ocho, sandwich and flick

All this in an hour! I felt like I’d been there for a day’s workshop, I was exhausted.

I thought the teaching was excellent, the teacher Federico danced as follower for all of the leaders and as leader for all of the followers. He called us all by name and it was great that he danced with everyone in the class. During this class of routines he continually highlighted technical points like frame, tension, weight transfer, head position, step sizes and attitude with heaps more attitude.

For one stop shopping he sells shoes, tango music CDs and instructional DVDs.

It’s a long way for me and I’d find it hard to commit to every Saturday 5.30-7.30 at Expressions, Linton House, Highgate Road, Kentish Town but I’ll definitely love to go again when I can.

The venue at Expressions is well worth a visit because it has a real selection of dance classes and there were a couples of girls in my class who had just finished a two hour salsa class in the same place, exhausting but hey it’s all good fun. While we were waiting for our class to start there was an extremely loud drumming/stomping/clapping kinda class going on which was entertaining to watch!


Federico has classes every day of the week at a variety of venues www.tango-federico.co.uk and a couple of guys on Saturday told me that his Friday class in Covent Garden is worth going to. (This was just a teeny weeny bit irritating for me to hear because I tried to find this class on Friday and found myself hopelessly lost wandering around the streets of the West End, cold, hungry and tired). Never mind I had a great time at the Casbah which helped me get over it.

I’m off now to listen to some Tango music and practise my Basic 8 and stuff …

Msfab
30th-January-2006, 12:57 PM
Has anyone heard or been to this Argentine Tango class in Hammersmith? I only heard about it this weekend when I went back to my old class in Wimbledon Village. Thanks to a Tango dance at the last Funky Lush, I decided to go back after about 10 months out - so glad I did and to my suprise I hadnt lost it!:clap:



LaMariposa (Classes and Practica)
Ros Freedman [tangoangels@rosfreedman.f2s.com]
The classes will, as usual be clear and structured and will pay attention to technique, communication between partners and musicality.

Time:1pm - 2pm Beginners/Early Intermediate
2pm - 3pm Intermediate
3pm - 5.30pm Practica
Venue: The Hammersmith Club, Kent House, Rutland Grove, London W6

Prices: Classes & Practica £9 Practica only £7 WE ARE NOT OPEN THE LAST SUNDAY OF THE MONTH

LMC
30th-January-2006, 01:32 PM
Federico has classes every day of the week at a variety of venues www.tango-federico.co.uk and a couple of guys on Saturday told me that his Friday class in Covent Garden is worth going to. (This was just a teeny weeny bit irritating for me to hear because I tried to find this class on Friday and found myself hopelessly lost wandering around the streets of the West End, cold, hungry and tired).
Just looked at the web link - I know where that is! (5 minutes walk from work) - let's go and check it out sometime :nice: Don't know how I missed it on my previous tango searches :blush:

Kentish Town sounds great, but coming into town on a Saturday is not so good. I'll stick with the Dome on Tuesdays - and take a look at Frederico's classes on Fridays now CeeCee has recommended him.

CeeCee
31st-January-2006, 08:09 PM
THE WORD ACCORDING TO FEDERICO

Federico says:- ‘The difference between Argentine Tango and Ballroom Tango is that Argentine Tango is sexy while Ballroom Tango is, well, just ridiculous’

He has a particular dislike of the staccato head movements, commonly seen in Ballroom Tango and he is a hoot when he demonstrates it.

I enjoyed his class on Saturday so much that I couldn’t resist the temptation to try his beginners’ class last night 8.30-10.00 at The Dance Attic Rehearsal Studios, 368 North End Road, Fulham SW6

Couldn’t believe the size of the class, 15 men and 20 women!

Federico says:- ‘One of the biggest barriers to learning is boredom, not difficulty but boredom’.

This explains why his classes move at a fast pace, with frequent partner changes. The class had a friendly atmosphere, there were no fixed partners and each time we paired up, Federico took the spare five women and danced with each of them. Again he danced with lots of the guys so that they could practise leading him. We danced the routines over and over as he constantly mentioned technique, position of head, shoulders, arms, hands, body, hips, legs, knees, feet not forgetting attitude, lots of attitude.

Federico says:- ‘If you want to be a really good dancer and have everyone want to dance with you then take big steps. If you want to make sure that noone wants to dance with you then take small steps. It’s that simple’

To top it all he played ‘Whatever Lola Wants’ by the Gotan Project for the first half of the lesson. I was in heaven!

When I got home I was so excited I couldn’t sleep. Does anyone else think that learning this new art form is intoxicating?

Lynn
31st-January-2006, 08:49 PM
Couldn’t believe the size of the class, 15 men and 20 women! That's about the size of our class here (it was limited numbers though so there were people turned away).
When I got home I was so excited I couldn’t sleep. Does anyone else think that learning this new art form is intoxicating?:yeah: :D
Sign up now for the Forum Tango Addiction Association. Membership involves posting on the various Tango threads, and the occasional TTD (Tango Thread Diversion) elsewhere. :flower:

frodo
31st-January-2006, 09:03 PM
THE WORD ACCORDING TO FEDERICO

Federico says:- ‘The difference between Argentine Tango and Be ballroom Tango is that Argentine Tango is sexy while Ballroom Tango is, well, just ridiculous’

He has a particular dislike of the staccato head movements, commonly seen in
Ballroom Tango and he is a hoot when he demonstrates it.
I don't know AT had difficulty holding it's head up high in the ridiculous (looking) stakes. If I was ever video'd so people outside dancing would see it the last dance I'd choose would be AT.


...Couldn’t believe the size of the class, 15 men and 20 women!

Federico says:- ‘One of the biggest barriers to learning is boredom, not difficulty but boredom’.... The class had a friendly atmosphere, there were no fixed partners ...

Federico says:- ‘If you want to be a really good dancer and have everyone want to dance with you then take big steps. If you want to make sure that noone wants to dance with you then take small steps. It’s that simple’
Sounds like a really good class, especially as they have classes on multiple days of the week; enough people going and a last point even I can understand and remember. For me it's a really useful post.

David Bailey
31st-January-2006, 09:34 PM
I've heard mixed reports of Frederico, but I'd like to give his classes a try.


Federico says:- ‘If you want to be a really good dancer and have everyone want to dance with you then take big steps. If you want to make sure that noone wants to dance with you then take small steps. It’s that simple’
:confused: In a crowded Milonga? I think that's a very weird thing to say - lots of the advice I've heard focusses on small steps, at least when learning.

I assumed it was like MJ / salsa in that respect - big steps are OK if you've got the space for them, or when you know what you're doing, but small steps give you more control. Or is that not true for Tango?


When I got home I was so excited I couldn’t sleep. Does anyone else think that learning this new art form is intoxicating?
I think we need a Tango Agony Uncle, is what we need...

Lory
31st-January-2006, 09:51 PM
I think we need a Tango Agony Uncle, is what we need...
:yeah: It's like the blind leading the blind in here! :rolleyes: :rofl:

But what's really great, is that we're all in the same boat together! :cheers: :hug:

LMC
31st-January-2006, 11:32 PM
I've heard mixed reports of Frederico, but I'd like to give his classes a try.
Someone told me tonight that his Friday classes in Covent Garden are big on sequences and low on technique. Not attractive, but dunno 'til you try - so since it's only 10 minutes from my office to Urdang I will give 'em a try at some point - Forum Expotition anyone?

Lynn
1st-February-2006, 12:00 PM
I think we need a Tango Agony Uncle, is what we need...We have one - he's just on holiday at the moment!

We could have a new thread for a Tango problem page perhaps?:rofl:

CeeCee
2nd-February-2006, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by DJ
I think we need a Tango Agony Uncle, is what we need...

H E L P!

Dear Tango Agony Uncle

This newly discovered passion for Tango has entered my life at an inconvenient time. I’m supposed to be studying for an exam on Tuesday 14th February, obviously a date set by someone who has a grudge with Cupid, anyway, I digress… I know that I should be concentrating on career matters and so in preparation, guess what I did last night?

I went to another of Federico’s classes.

8-9pm Beginners and Intermediates, 9-11pm Milonga, Chiswick Town Hall. What a lovely venue, thought it was nice in the dark at Saturday’s freestyle, well it’s even lovelier with the lights on.

The atmosphere was quite different to Monday’s class in Fulham, not better or worse, just different. Around thirty people, equal numbers, no fixed couples, frequent partner changes.

When teaching a move where the leader flicks the followers foot while she is turning, to discourage the guys from looking at their feet, Federico's little gem was:-

‘My foot is like a heat seeking missile, I am searching for the heat of her foot until I find it then I know when to stop.’

More people arrived for the Milonga and I would have loved to stay all night because it was friendly, relaxed and fun. I was asked to dance by several chaps some from the class and others who had just arrived, they were polite, charming and helpful. They lead me into moves I hadn’t been taught and if it didn’t quite work they graciously took the blame. (Note to self:- I really must remember not to say “Oooh, I haven’t done that before!”)

Anyway back to my dilemma, if I’m honest I know that I really shouldn’t have gone out last night but I was weak and the temptation was irresistible. So what do I do when I can’t stop doing something which I know I should stop doing because if I don’t stop doing it, I know I’m going to be sorry that I didn’t stop, when I know I should have, well... stopped?

LMC
2nd-February-2006, 10:15 AM
So what do I do when I can’t stop doing something which I know I should stop doing because if I don’t stop doing it, I know I’m going to be sorry that I didn’t stop, when I know I should have, well... stopped?
I think the right answer (or at least the one you want to hear) is if you stop before you're ready to stop then you'll be sorry you stopped so just keep doing whatever it is (was it tango or something?) - life is too short not to be happy :D

Kev F
2nd-February-2006, 07:32 PM
We had a guest appearance at our ballroom lesson today. :clap:

I obviously showed him a few of my moves! :D

That was when Lory cornered him and demonstrated her close embrace tango hold. :blush:

I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise for any mental stress we may of caused him. :flower:

....and he was actually a really lovely guy and a perfect gentleman.

Lory
2nd-February-2006, 07:57 PM
....and he was actually a really lovely guy and a perfect gentleman.
:yeah: He was extremely friendly and down to earth :worthy: :grin:

Clive Long
3rd-February-2006, 12:35 AM
ArtsDepot, Finchley 2 February
As the wonderful, serene, sensual, majestic Kikka is away finding a Tango partner in Buenos Aires we are being taught by Keiji. I like him. He really has a desire to light a fire in you. He also wants you to work while away from the class. I think he got a bit irritated that he felt he was repeating what he had taught last week.

1. Connection. We just pressed palm to palm and "moved our centres" (shifted weight between our feet). The leader then moved forward / back or sideways to test whether the follower was on the same foot. Very telling exercise.

2. We repeated the connection exercise but with a standard embrace.

I found in 1. and 2. that the woman's right hand and arm kept "collapsing" even though I felt it should lie in a "plane" between our torsoes.

3. "not a Giro" (not sure of name). Lots of words about foot placement but in essence the woman starts in a forward ocho. The dancers think that their feet lie at corners of a square - yet they also lie on a circle. The axis of the circle is between both dancers. The idea is both partners move around the boundary of the circle and as one moves one foot the other person is also moving a foot to occupy the "foot space" vacated by the partner. This way a strong connection is maintained and a clean turn is executed.

A variant can be performed when the man "steps inside" and places a foot against a foot of his partner, so the dancers' feet lie on the points of a triangle but still they move as though around the boundary of a circle.

Finally we did variants where the men stepped to the right rather than the left but the turning around the common circle remained.

This needs lots of practise to get from brain into body.



I talked to Keiji after the class and he was a bit uncertain whether he was teaching effectively for us. Humility and vulnerability from a teacher, that's a first :ducks: I assured him we had as much responsibility as him if we wished to improve our standard of dancing.

Anyone interested in going to see Tango Por Dos (http://www.sadlerswells.com/peacock/2005_2006/tango.asp) at the Peacock Thetre near Covent Garden? Tickets pricey but we can get 20% discount if we can get a group of 8 or more for one performance. PM me if interested.

Clive

David Bailey
3rd-February-2006, 09:30 AM
ArtsDepot, Finchley 2 February
{ snip excellent summary }
I was very happy that we're finally being shown a bit of this mysterious foot-touching-foot stuff, which everyone else seems to do - it feels much more tango-y in some way. My first premature attempts at ganchos, however, are best left undescribed - I think they looked like Judo moves or something - so I'll leave that for now.

I also love the fact that each step we're taught is actually 4 steps - i.e. can be done clockwise or anti-clockwise, forward or backwards. In theory, at least...


This needs lots of practise to get from brain into body.
I think that now practice is becoming more and more important - we're learning so many new concepts, and if I don't try them out I'll forget them. Maybe I too need a Black Book Of Notes... Nah, I'd never read them, this thread'll do. :D

David Bailey
9th-February-2006, 11:54 PM
Week 3, Finchley artsdepot

We had Minau (sp?) as a teacher this week - she did a lot of technique stuff (connection exercises). We practiced leading crosses, at random and unpredictable intervals, then we carried on with the giro / ocho combinations we learnt last week; going from a forward ocho into a giro, and then out again.

We did a bit of the "square -> triangle" thing as per last week with our feet, but I found it tough going - honestly, it didn't seem much better than last week for me - I dunno why, but I didn't get much feeling of progression from it.

I picked up a couple of things though:
- when leading from a forward ocho into a giro, the leader should step back and to the side (rather than just to the side as for a normal ocho), to allow more space to lead the first giro step.
- When walking, and the guy walks to one side instead of straight in front, there's no dissociation - as dissociation would be a lead for a cross.

Lynn
10th-February-2006, 12:08 PM
We practiced leading crosses, at random and unpredictable intervals... This is what I want to know about. I think our teacher may have covered it but all the leads I had in that class were just doing the basic 8 and expecting me to cross, not leading it. I asked several more experienced leads about it last weekend and got different answers -eg - if the man gives more space then he wants you to do a cross (I didn't agree with this, he may be dancing with more space in the first place, or he may allow space for some other reason). I don't want to pick up bad habits early on, I want to make sure I only cross when led. (Hope I am talking about the same thing - when the lady crosses her feet as at the end of a salida?)

LMC
10th-February-2006, 12:14 PM
As far as I understand it, there is a definite lead for a cross - I certainly felt the difference last week. Unfortunately, it's difficult to describe... it was like the lead 'rocked' his frame slightly to encourage me to cross my left foot over my right, rather than taking a step straight back. Don't know if that makes any sense (we need Julie as well as Jon on this thread!!)

Lynn
10th-February-2006, 12:23 PM
As far as I understand it, there is a definite lead for a cross - I certainly felt the difference last week. Unfortunately, it's difficult to describe... it was like the lead 'rocked' his frame slightly to encourage me to cross my left foot over my right, rather than taking a step straight back. Don't know if that makes any sense (we need Julie as well as Jon on this thread!!)Yes, I know that some leads were able to lead me to a cross so I must have been able to follow something, I suppose I want to know as much for those times when I don't cross, my partner says 'you didn't cross', I say 'you didn't lead me' and they say 'so how do I do that then?'... Otherwise I just have to cross when expected and neither of us learn anything.

David Bailey
10th-February-2006, 12:25 PM
This is what I want to know about. I think our teacher may have covered it but all the leads I had in that class were just doing the basic 8 and expecting me to cross, not leading it.
That seems to be the problem with the basic 8 - or any sequence really - it doesn't teach you to lead, and it may inculcate bad habits.

Despite the fact that I know better, I'm still such a beginner at AT that I assume anyone with any AT experience knows all this stuff, and knows it more than I do. At some point, I'll be able to differentiate the levels of ability of different dancers - but they all look so good to me know, I woudn't have a clue.

Anyway, leading a cross is (for me) both difficult and subtle, and after a lot of practice I reckon I'm clearly leading it about 50% of the time now.

I agree that there is a lead, and it should be clear, and it should be leadable from any point in a walkback - but how to describe it? There's some dissociation, there's some rotation, there's some footwork, and it all happens at the same time - plus, the guy's got to transfer weight whilst doing that :eek:

For me, the lead starts very early, I have to put some space between us, and I have to slightly rotate the lady in the direction of the cross step. That's the best I can describe it...


I suppose I want to know as much for those times when I don't cross, my partner says 'you didn't cross', I say 'you didn't lead me' and they say 'so how do I do that then?'...
:rofl: You say "Learn it from the teacher, what do you think this is, Ceroc or something, sh£t-for-brains?". :devil:

(OK, that's what I say, possibly when I'm in a bad mood, there may be a better way :whistle:)

LMC
10th-February-2006, 12:30 PM
For me, the lead starts very early, I have to put some space between us, and I have to slightly rotate the lady in the direction of the cross step. That's the best I can describe it...
:yeah: :clap: - that's exactly how it feels from my point of view as a follower.

If there isn't a lead, then I don't cross, and so far partners have been nice about it and we've worked on it together, which has been great.

Lynn
10th-February-2006, 12:33 PM
:rofl: You say "Learn it from the teacher, what do you think this is, Ceroc or something, sh£t-for-brains?". :devil:

(OK, that's what I say, possibly when I'm in a bad mood, there may be a better way :whistle:)Firstly, I'm much more polite than that (even when grumpy!) and I was meaning on occasions when the teacher wasn't available.

I'm suitably chastised. I will ask the teacher to show me next week.

David Bailey
10th-February-2006, 01:07 PM
I'm suitably chastised. I will ask the teacher to show me next week.
Sorry, babes :flower: - not being grumpy at you, just at the "leads" who expect the followers to tell them how to lead.

What he should be doing of course is trying to work it out, attempting it and then asking "does this work with you?"

LMC
10th-February-2006, 01:16 PM
Sorry, babes :flower: - not being grumpy at you, just at the "leads" who expect the followers to tell them how to lead.
That would make me very grumpy too, because I'm not as lovely as Lynn.

One problem I've found with some of the beginner leads is that their frames are even weaker than mine (and that's saying something!). It is practically impossible to follow tango in the "practice hold" if the lead is breaking frame.

Lynn
10th-February-2006, 01:17 PM
Sorry, babes :flower: - not being grumpy at you, just at the "leads" who expect the followers to tell them how to lead.

What he should be doing of course is trying to work it out, attempting it and then asking "does this work with you?"
I had a partner like that in the classes at Scarborough. It made the classes so much more enjoyable and it was great when it did work.

I get the impression though that the basic 8 is often taught as a step with a cross, so the cross is expected and anticipated rather than led and followed. Our teacher in Belfast did teach the lead for a cross but I'm not sure if that many people actually picked up on it. I'll ask her to lead me so I know what it should feel like.

If all the other follows are anticipating then I seem like the fussy one when I don't just do that. Then they are going to get grumpy with me!

LMC
10th-February-2006, 01:34 PM
If all the other follows are anticipating then I seem like the fussy one when I don't just do that. Then they are going to get grumpy with me!
:hug: - I can relate. Be strong, we know that better dancers appreciate someone who follows nicely!

spindr
10th-February-2006, 02:22 PM
A few random thoughts:

1). I don't like the word dissociation -- makes it sound like you're trying to cut yourself in two -- rather than one dancer in two pieces you should be aiming for one dancer with four legs :)

If you mean contra-body motion then that's usually the ballroom term; the tango teachers generally talk about "dancing heart to heart".

Even if you are walking offset to the side of your partner you should still be dancing heart to heart -- if you aren't then you're not dancing tango.

2). The lead for a cross is a slight clockwise rotation of the chest (which the follower will mirror).

The follower steps back and is transfering weight on to their right leg.
The rotation is such that they very slightly pivot so that their left leg is now on the "line" that their right leg was on -- so that when they are lead to move their right leg backwards it will "automatically" be crossed in front of their left leg.

The ballroom version of an unsubtle cross is a lock-step (although weight is generally higher).

There's no reason to change feet to lead the lady in to a cross, as the man can lead themselves into one (ok, it's right crossing behind left -- not left crossing in front of right, but it's still a cross).

3). There isn't a lead for the lady to step.

There's is an "intention" for the lady to move (which will cause her to move her leg) -- if the intention continues then she'll step on to that foot and change weight.

However, if the intention doesn't continue and the man adjusts back to their previous "not-leading" postion, then the lady will bring her leg back to close -- and things will be as if there were no lead.

This is really fun for leading flicky leg pointy decorations.

Hope that makes sense,
SpinDr

Clive Long
10th-February-2006, 02:27 PM
Yes, I know that some leads were able to lead me to a cross so I must have been able to follow something, I suppose I want to know as much for those times when I don't cross, my partner says 'you didn't cross', I say 'you didn't lead me' and they say 'so how do I do that then?'... Otherwise I just have to cross when expected and neither of us learn anything.
I was told to lead a cross as follows ...

Hold lady in embrace.

Man lifts right-hand/arm and lift lady's torso slightly. (Say it quietly, this is the first part of the signal)

Man pushes (I know we don't push in Tango) the lady's torso to left (from man's point-of-view)

Voila! The lady crosses her feet.

Of course, the lady has to know this "signal" (wash your mouth out Clive).


Responses anyone?

Woger.

Lynn
10th-February-2006, 02:36 PM
The lead for a cross is a slight clockwise rotation of the chest (which the follower will mirror).

The follower steps back and is transfering weight on to their right leg.
The rotation is such that they very slightly pivot so that their left leg is now on the "line" that their right leg was on -- so that when they are lead to move their right leg backwards it will "automatically" be crossed in front of their left leg. That seems to make sense to me, I just haven't had that much practice of it so far.

Why I can't I have a built in Tango male partner in my office?

spindr
10th-February-2006, 02:43 PM
Sorry confusing rights / lefts, etc.


The follower steps back and is transfering weight on to their right leg. The rotation is such that they very slightly pivot so that their left leg is now on the "line" that their right leg was on -- so that when they are lead to move their left leg backwards it will "automatically" be crossed in front of their right leg.

SpinDr

Lynn
10th-February-2006, 03:28 PM
Sorry confusing rights / lefts, etc. I hadn't even noticed! :blush: I knew which foot you meant.

Lory
10th-February-2006, 03:44 PM
My turn :na:

Kev and I had a good lesson yesterday.… Our usual teacher was away, so we had Ralph Schiller instead :) he'd never seen us Tango before, so he made us dance for a whole track to begin with, while he watched. :really: There's nothing like being 11am, cold, with no time to warm up, to bring put all your worst flaws!:sick:

But he was great, he immediately spotted a few.. one being that my side steps were too small on the giro, :blush: so he showed us an exercise, to practice on our own, giro'ing round a square piece of paper, making sure we stay at an equal distance to corners of the paper at all times.

Anyway, let me get to the exciting bit!:D We went over the Sandwiche and I was 'given' a whole bunch of new toys to play with:clap: ... embellishments, mmm embellishments, I love that word! :yum:

So this is the thing girls, you've been put into the sandwiche and suddenly, wey hey, this is OUR time,:waycool: we can take as long as we like but the moment we take up his invite to step over his leg, we hand back over the lead!;)

So, what can we do:confused: Well, we can, circle our toe or heal on the floor, or do a large or small windscreen wiper motion with a pointed toe at the back (depending what the music calls for) or the one I like...we can polish our shoes up and down the mans trouser leg, inside or outside or BOTH.:wink: woo hoo!:clap:

Ralph's quote of the lesson, (I was dancing with him and we reached the critical point of the 'sandwiche') and in his serious foreign accent, he commanded.....OK, now, Turn me on!!! :devil: :what: :rofl:


The lovely thing with Tango is, each new concept adds a whole variety of possibilities.:whistle:

At the end of the lesson, Kev filmed me dancing with Ralph:worthy: I haven't seen it yet but I'm half dreading to see how bad I look, and half looking forward to seeing what got me to do, as its all a bit of a blur now! :blush:

LMC
10th-February-2006, 03:45 PM
Responses anyone?
The description makes sense, but still, "Wash your mouth out Clive".

The follower does have to know the cross step - but SpinDr has the right of it I think. Even in my uneddicated opinion, it's a lead, not a signal - and the lead is such that the follower has "no choice" but to cross the left foot over the right as s/he steps back if s/he follows the rule of staying heart-to-heart.

Lory
10th-February-2006, 03:51 PM
Man pushes (I know we don't push in Tango) the lady's torso to left (from man's point-of-view)

~Snip~

Responses anyone?


How about, swivel's and invites.... rather than pushes? :flower:

David Bailey
10th-February-2006, 04:03 PM
If all the other follows are anticipating then I seem like the fussy one when I don't just do that. Then they are going to get grumpy with me!
They're wrong, you're right.

Tell them to... hold on, was going to have a grumpy moment there. :blush:

Lory, I think the "giro side step" thing is very common, that's one of the problems I was having last night. It seemed like the followers tended to want to get the sidestep "out of the way" and get into the swivel forward / back bit. It seems difficult to slow down enough to take a proper slow sidestep - and that causes problems if the guy is trying to fit his feet in between yours as part of the step.

And it's quite tricky to lead, because of the position and the momentum - I'm also having trouble clearly leading a side-step vs. a backwards ocho - because the pivot and gather bit is the same for both steps, I think the lead needs to be extra clear, and mine clearly (!) isn't. :sad:

Problems, problems... Whose idea was it to start learning this dance anyway? I blame Weg...

LMC
10th-February-2006, 04:21 PM
Inderesding... I sometimes have problems distinguishing the difference of lead between a side step and a backwards ocho. Perhaps it's not just me after all :blush:

I said on the other thread that I sometimes feel that the lead is rushing me through a grapevine step - as a true novice, that 'gather and pivot' for the backwards ocho takes me longer than it should. Perhaps your follower is rushing the side-step DJ - so she can gather quicker for the pivot and the backwards ocho? I dunno though.

As for whose idea... since he's not here to stand up for himself, let's blame JonD for making it sound so good.

spindr
10th-February-2006, 05:50 PM
Inderesding... I sometimes have problems distinguishing the difference of lead between a side step and a backwards ocho. Perhaps it's not just me after all :blush:
Side step -- leader doesn't rotate his chest (shoulders).
Rotation -- leader rotates his chest.

Don't worry about (anticipate) moves -- the only possiblities are moving, and rotating -- everything else is just "flashiness".

Back to the cross -- it occurs to me that the thing that needs to really happen i that the follower brushes their ankles on every single walking step. THEN, the rotational element can be miniscule to lead the cross. If you are stepping back without brushing (?) then the lead is going to have to be much "stronger".

There's an interesting question if you are doing a basic 8 whether you have enough "walking backwards" to get the brushing working ready for a cross to be led, or not :)

SpinDr

LMC
10th-February-2006, 05:55 PM
Problem with the distinguishing is that a beginner lead may not rotate his chest sufficiently and try to be leading with the arms - which gives mixed messages. Probably 6 of one and a half-dozen of the other.


There's an interesting question if you are doing a basic 8 whether you have enough "walking backwards" to get the brushing working ready for a cross to be led, or not :)
I'll do that cross in two :innocent:

Hamza is very hot on "heels together". Which I'm quite good at while we're just walking but I freely admit that it all goes completely pear-shaped more often than I would like when the music goes on and we're freestyling. Focus needed...

David Bailey
10th-February-2006, 07:50 PM
Side step -- leader doesn't rotate his chest (shoulders).
Rotation -- leader rotates his chest.
Hmmm, I'll have to try that one...


There's an interesting question if you are doing a basic 8 whether you have enough "walking backwards" to get the brushing working ready for a cross to be led, or not :)
The obvious exercise from the basic 8 to test whether you're leading a cross is to vary the amount of steps you take before leading the cross - i.e. on the 1st or the 5th step instead of the 3rd.

Lynn
10th-February-2006, 08:23 PM
So this is the thing girls, you've been put into the sandwiche and suddenly, wey hey, this is OUR time,:waycool: we can take as long as we like but the moment we take up his invite to step over his leg, we hand back over the lead!;) Sounds great Lory, just learnt the sandwich at the weekend and I could see where there was space to 'do things' but aside from the circling I didn't know what I could do (and to be honest I'm still at the working out where my feet should be stage, rather than thinking of other interesting things to do with them).

or the one I like...we can polish our shoes up and down the mans trouser leg, inside or outside or BOTH.:wink: woo hoo!:clap: Oh, me like! :wink: (Just as a good opportunity to polish my shoes you understand, you know how I love my shoes...:whistle: :innocent: )

stewart38
3rd-March-2006, 11:22 AM
Thought id post this for those not at STORM looks good :sad:



SPECIAL EVENT

Saturday 4 March

LatinaMax “ALL-DAYER” @ The Rocket from 6pm-3am

When we launched this back in 2003 it became THE PREMIER SATURDAY LATIN CLUBNIGHT in the UK - with over 7500sq ft wooden dancefloor, 2 bars, full air-conditioning and 3 rooms of dance each with their own sound systems.



6-10pm MASTERCLASSES

Classes in KIZOMBA, BACHATA, LAMBAZOUK, REGGAETON, LA RUEDA, MAMBO, CHA CHA & SALSA with teachers including Kwenda Lima, Moe Flex, Andrea Stewart, Marisa & Gary, Inaki Fernandes, Niki Britton, Tiz and the rest of the LATIN COLLECTIVE team then club till 3am



9pm-3am THE PARTY

Door price includes classes in KIZOMBA, LAMBAZOUK, REGGAETON & SALSA then dancing till 3am with 3 rooms of music

Room 1: SalsaMax (Cuban and NY style Salsa) with Dr Jim, Big Les and guests

Room 2: Brazilian Beam Bums (Lambazouk, Samba and Kizomba) with DJ Paolo

Room 3: Urban Latino(Reggaeton, Merengue & Latin Hip-Hop) (hosted by Candela Productions)



DJs: Dr Jim, Big Les, Paolo, Jose Luis plus guests



Venue: The Rocket, 166 Holloway Rd, Islington, London N7 (opposite Holloway Rd tube stn with plenty of parking outside)

JonD
3rd-March-2006, 01:29 PM
Has anyone danced AT at Rojo y Negro (http://www.rojoynegroclub.com/)? I've heard good things about Bianca but never met her or seen her teach.

Clive Long
7th-March-2006, 01:01 PM
Has anyone danced AT at Rojo y Negro (http://www.rojoynegroclub.com/)? I've heard good things about Bianca but never met her or seen her teach.
I started my faltering AT career with Bianca (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=162194).

Clive

Clive Long
9th-March-2006, 01:22 AM
My first Milonga. Dome Wed 8 March http://www.zerohouruk.com/

Tonight my Tango journey almost ended.

How did I feel? Angry. Angry with myself.

The purpose of going to this event was just to dance. Forget about figures, just "get moving".

When I arrived I sat at a table with a guy and two girls. I introduced myslef and I got a reaction from two of them that could not have been worse if I had exposed myself or assaulted them with a large haddock. I forced the conversation along as I try at such times until I couldn't bear it and said to the guy "You seems quite shocked or offended. Is there a problem?" He didn't respond. At times I decided not to say anything and see if they made an effort to talk. They didn't. I'm getting too old for such cold shoulder cr*p. The other girl seemed slightly less shocked and offended - even slightly amused - so we chatted until the class started

The evening started (late) with a lesson given by two exaulted Tango teachers. I think they were the Pugliese's (??) . Sorry, I don't know my Tango history and I probably didn't treat them with the reverence they probably deserve but I was left cold by the class. The gentleman didn't speak English so Carolina had to translate. Nothing he covered about the importance of frame was novel. The organisation of people standing made it difficult to see the footwork. I only got one dance then somehow dropped out of things. There was no partner rotation and no one was giving up "their" partner so I got no more practice. I tried to shuffle around on my own but didn't achieve much. And this event was was sold to me as "really friendly".

Then I remembered the dance psychology workshop at Camber. Why wasn't enjoying the evening? Ans: Because I wasn't dancing and getting the opportunity to practice. So I thought, "Ok. This is only one evening of your life. Compete a bit for a partner in the milonga (freestyle) and see if you get anything out of it. Most women have for of a fight to get a dance every week at Ceroc."

So I stayed and asked a few women to dance. I explained I was a beginner - which I am really as I haven't put the theory into practise. I was so lucky with most of the women I danced with: Chris, Odette and the wonderful Suzy. They were understanding and patient. I almost felt I could lead.

By the end of the evening the anger had given way to a calmer feeling. A small sense of satisfaction that I had stayed and not succumbed to my feelings to bail out. However, if I had not met pleasant people it would have taken someone of sterner stuff than me to tough it out.

Will I go back? I have to. It is what I need and I have to admit I actually enjoyed it towards than end rather than survived it.


Woger

David Bailey
9th-March-2006, 10:17 AM
My first Milonga. Dome Wed 8 March
Clive :respect: to you for the bravery to go to a Milonga - it scares the hell out of me at the moment.


The evening started (late) with a lesson given by two exaulted Tango teachers. I think they were the Pugliese's (??) . Sorry, I don't know my Tango history and I probably didn't treat them with the reverence they probably deserve
They deserve reverence if they progress you well during that lesson, which you've paid your hard-earned cash for. Other than that, for me, I really couldn't care less what they've done in the past.

I've spent nearly a dozen years now, watching a set of (frankly) useless salsa teachers being treated like gods, simply because they've marketed themselves well. I'm too grumpy and too old to repeat the experience with Tango - and it's clear that Tango suffers the same lack of consistency in teaching, and hype, as salsa does.

If a teacher is poor, avoid them - and :worthy: for CeeCee for finding out the poor ones in London for us to avoid :)


And this event was was sold to me as "really friendly".
:blush: That wasn't me who said that, was it? :eek:

When I went in December with a group of similarly-terrified other beginners, the milonga seemed quite sociable - I didn't do the class, however, and we were huddled around Kicca for most of the evening like a comfort blanket.

Lynn
9th-March-2006, 11:22 AM
Clive :respect: to you for the bravery to go to a Milonga
:yeah:

Clive :respect: to you for the bravery to go to a Milonga

When I went in December with a group of similarly-terrified other beginners, the milonga seemed quite sociable - I didn't do the class, however, and we were huddled around Kicca for most of the evening like a comfort blanket.I think I'm too scared to go to a Milonga now. The nearest ones are in Dublin anyway - I had hoped to perhaps be at a level to be able to go down for Saturday workshops and milonga by mid summer but the poor attempts I made to follow what snatches of Tango I could get at Storm were somewhat discouraging. I fear that if I attempted a milonga I would run for the hills (well, OK not literally, more likely sit quietly in a corner trying to smile but feeling heartbroken - why does tango touch our emotions at that level?)

JonD
9th-March-2006, 11:46 AM
Clive, you are seriously brave! I doubt I'd have had the courage to stay for the milonga and I'm just so glad that you found some kindred spirits who know that dancing is about having fun and doing your best to ensure those around you have fun.

I whimped out of going to the Dome last time I was in London on a Wednesday night. Next time I'm up I'll let you all know and maybe we can get a gang of us together to experience it. That'll make it easier for all of us! I've had some great nights dancing AT but I've also had some fairly miserable evenings where I've felt completely "sidelined".


why does tango touch our emotions at that level?
I guess we "open" ourselves in the dance and you can't "shut the door" everytime you leave the dance floor. It certainly gets me that way!

Clive Long
9th-March-2006, 12:45 PM
I think I'm too scared to go to a Milonga now.
Lynn,

Please, please, please don't let my description put you off going to a milonga. That wasn't my intention at all. I was just trying to honestly convey how I felt at different times of the evening and how in the end it worked out fine.

I didn't intend for people to think I was wonderful or brave for going on my own to a milonga. I just hoped that people would see it is possible to turn a "bad" evening into a good one. At 9pm when I was thinking of leaving I remembered the Dance Psychology workshop from Camber. I asked myself why I wasn't enjoying the evening. I realised I went with expectations that I was going to dance and I wasn't. I realised most women at Ceroc have to deal with getting fewer dances than they would like in an evening. I acknowledged that I was already at the event and it was only one evening in my life. The worst that could happen was that I got many refusals and the few dances I had would make me feel I was a terrible Tango dancer.Of course, I experienced the complete opposite. I have found the good far outweighs the bad in people associated with all forms of dance.

Another point I forgot to make about the experience was after speaking to a few people about how inadequate a Tango dancer I felt, I realised the obvious truth (which I then remembered CeeCee had already said to me) that they all at some time were in the same boat as me. That is, they had all been beginners and had worked away to become better dancers. Now they could enjoy their dancing. I want that too.


I whimped out of going to the Dome last time I was in London on a Wednesday night. Next time I'm up I'll let you all know and maybe we can get a gang of us together to experience it. That'll make it easier for all of us!
Yep. Safety in friendly, familiar faces. This has been suggested at our Thursday class and a few times we have been on a Monday - less scary then Wednesday - oops, sorry there I go again, pre-judging. :rolleyes:


luego

Clive

CeeCee
9th-March-2006, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by The Brave One
Tonight my Tango journey almost ended.

No no no, Clive not at all.

You did a very brave thing last night taking yourself to your first Milonga, we admire you for your courage, pat on the back for you. Your experience last night would be enough to make anyone sad about their Tango but you managed to express your thoughts for us all to share, so well done.


Originally posted by The Brave One
By the end of the evening the anger had given way to a calmer feeling
You’re a different person to me, if I’d felt the way you described I would have walked out long before the end of the evening.

Our Tango journey is just beginning, we may trip on the odd rock along the way or pause at various junctions but the end is nowhere in sight.


Originally posted by DJ
Clive to you for the bravery to go to a Milonga - it scares the hell out of me at the moment.


Originally posted by Lynn
I think I'm too scared to go to a Milonga now.

Originally posted by JonD
I doubt I'd have had the courage to stay for the milonga
Sympathy all around but not all Milongas are scary, I guess some can be disappointing but I've been to three different venues with friendly, supportive, welcoming people.

Originally posted by JonD
I whimped out of going to the Dome last time I was in London on a Wednesday night. Next time I'm up I'll let you all know and maybe we can get a gang of us together to experience it. That'll make it easier for all of us!
Ooh I like the sound of that, should be fun








Sueño el Tango
I didn’t choose Tango, Tango chose me
The journey continues…

Lynn
9th-March-2006, 01:43 PM
Please, please, please don't let my description put you off going to a milonga. That wasn't my intention at all. I was just trying to honestly convey how I felt at different times of the evening and how in the end it worked out fine. Don't worry, its as much, in fact more, my lack of any ability to follow any sort of tango at Storm. I'm sure I did manage it a bit in Scarborough...

There aren't any milongas in NI for me to go to anyway, so its all fairly academic at the moment. I'll probably head down to Dublin at some point if there are others going (though frustratingly its almost cheaper and quicker to get to London. Almost.) I just want one good tango dance every so often, then I would be able to be encouraged as to the path ahead. ('Good' being connected, even if only mostly walking and including any crosses being led of course!)

(Oh and I did think it was pretty brave of you.:respect: )


At 9pm when I was thinking of leaving I remembered the Dance Psychology workshop from Camber. I asked myself why I wasn't enjoying the evening. I realised I went with expectations that I was going to dance and I wasn't. I realised most women at Ceroc have to deal with getting fewer dances than they would like in an evening. I acknowledged that I was already at the event and it was only one evening in my life. The worst that could happen was that I got many refusals and the few dances I had would make me feel I was a terrible Tango dancer.Of course, I experienced the complete opposite. I have found the good far outweighs the bad in people associated with all forms of dance. Really good to hear the Dance Psychology workshop stuff being helpful. I think that workshop is useful or not depending on whether you actually apply things from it. I did on Sat night at Storm, just a slight shift in attitude and perception and it did improve the evening for me. I had a relatively bad evening last time I was in London and now would be better able to turn it around.

Clive Long
9th-March-2006, 02:51 PM
All,

I am almost certain these are the correct details for this event.
If anyone wants to go, do you want to meet in a Highgate pub beforehand? I think the Woodman (??) would be the nearest.

Jackson Lane is literally across the road from the exit for Highgate station.

Clive

************************************************** ***
SATURDAY
New Saturday Venue:
3rd Saturday of each month starting Sept 2005
Tango Evening - Milonga only (no group classes)
8:00pm - 1:00am
Fee: £6.00
Fully licenced Bar

Next date: Sat 18 March

Address: Jacksons Lane, 269a Archway Road, N6 5AA
By Tube: Highgate (Northern Line, High Barnet branch)
By Bus: No. 43, 134 and 263 stop right outside as do the night buses N20, N134 and N43
By Car: Jacksons Lane is outside the congestion charging zone and is situated on the A1. Car parking is free on surrounding roads from 7pm daily or £2.50 in the Tube car park opposite.

JonD
9th-March-2006, 03:12 PM
I can't make Saturday the 18th - already booked. I might well come up to a book launch on Wednesday 5th April - it's in Chelesa but I could come along to the Dome afterwards if anyone else can make it that night. What time does the milonga start?

spindr
9th-March-2006, 05:00 PM
FYI http://www.tangobythethames.com are running a dance at Liberty Ballroom on 29th April -- just a couple of junctions down from Twyford on the M4 :)

SpinDr

Clive Long
9th-March-2006, 11:41 PM
Finchley Tango 9th March

Unfortunately Catherine is unwell so DJ couldn't make it tonight. Sympathy to Catherine.

Quite a bit from Kicca tonight about posture. I'm not really sure about where my bum should be except somewhere between the top of my legs and my torso. Kicca talked about one's core and centring on one's spine. Also transmitting from one's sacrum down through a triangle in one's feet into the floor and up from the torso through one's head. I'm not selling this idea to you am I? I think the Alexander Technique people do this stuff.

We then spent a little time creating connection / tension by the leader holding the backs of the follower's hands and both moving away to create tension. Then the leader moved backwards or forwards and the follower had to sustain tension into the leader's hands. Very "Franck French Connection" kind of stuff.

The rest of the class was about colgadas described by

http://www.layuega.com/terms.htm as:

a move in which the two partners move their torsos apart and turn together on the same axis while remaining vertical

In simplistic terms both dancers "lean" back - more like "sit back" - so the centre of gravity remains between the dancers. Then the leader can rotate or swing the follower. The follower lets her free leg swing and then flicks it back into place. This can be a very snappy explosive movement. I believe it is very a "new tango" move much frowned upon by the traditionalists

And we spent all evening doing that.

Quite hypnotic at times.

Wedge xxx

LMC
10th-March-2006, 11:03 AM
I "got" the posture stuff that Kicca did last Tuesday - right up until the point that I had to step. Is there a version of tango where the follower can just stand still? :innocent:

Clive, don't know if Kicca did this one with you as she did with us - it's a bit embarrassing :blush: - when you've managed to get your pelvis and shoulders aligned and the weight on the right part of your foot (tail bone down, chest 'open', etc.) - suck your thumb! - seriously, it engages the 'core' muscles in your abdomen that she's talking about. I was surprised and pleased to find that I had already engaged those muscles and sucking my thumb made no difference. Hang on, maybe *that's* the answer to the "moving" problem - tango while sucking my thumb :grin: or maybe not...

Clive Long
12th-March-2006, 02:25 AM
The Crypt, Clerkenwell, 11 March

I am on my milonga tour of London

This started with a lesson. Walking, pivot turns. Clearly explained but the teacher was a bit of a bully. I just don't like it when a teacher points out something is not right and makes you feel slightly bad about it. It is a subtle thing but you know when it is happening. The teacher made the point generally across the whole class. Is it a power thing?

I just remembered. We did a salida where the ladies led and the men followed. Very, interesting.

After the lesson was a milonga.

The Crypt is, well, a church crypt in Clerkenwell, now an uber-trendy part of London. The venue is spacious enough for a fair number of dancers, the lighting was atmospheric and the music system was fine. The standard of dance ranged from the needs-to-learn-how-to-walk-first-beginner to the accomplished dancer. Fewer dancers than the Dome on Wednesday so consequently less intimidating. I did my "I'm only a beginner but I'm not fishing for compliments. I need to practise" speech before each dance. I was OK but I just wish I could (usual complaint coming) do something more interesting and varied than ochoes and a simple giro.

I managed to chat to a few people - which is a good thing in my books.

One guy mentioned he thought I wasn't keeping my weight forward - which surprised me as I thought I always made an effort on that. Just goes to show, what you think you are doing and what you are doing can be completely different things.

So the evening was fine but I wasn't fantastically inspired or inspiring. Useful place to practise for me.

Clive

CeeCee
12th-March-2006, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by CL
I am on my milonga tour of London How and where did you found the courage to attend another Milonga so soon? An award for bravery goes to you Clive, for choosing to put yourself into a potentially intimidating situation after your negative experience last Wednesday. Well done.

Originally posted by CL
Quite hypnotic at times.
So true.


Originally posted by CL
Clearly explained but the teacher was a bit of a bully… Is it a power thing?
probably

The Crypt was on my list of venues to try last night, so it was great to read your review of your experiences. I tossed a coin and chose a venue in Central London so I’m posting my review on our other thread.

Lynn
12th-March-2006, 04:31 PM
CeeCee you are unstoppable!:worthy: I should make a list of all these reviews for my next visit to London and make sure I fit some Tango into my schedule. It could even get a higher priority than dance shoe shopping. :what:

(And Clive - :worthy: again)


There aren't any milongas in NI for me to go to anyway, so its all fairly academic at the moment. Spoke too soon, there is one being held on 1st April and I can't go. The Ceroc NI first freestyle party is the same night. But hopefully where there is one, others will follow.

I just want one good tango dance every so often, then I would be able to be encouraged as to the path ahead. Got one on Fri night. :D

Clive Long
15th-March-2006, 12:11 PM
************************************************** ***
SATURDAY

Next date: Sat 18 March

Address: Jacksons Lane, 269a Archway Road, N6 5AA
************************************************** ***

Unfortunately I won't be able to make this event as it now clashes with some friends' leaving event. They are going to Aberdeen for a few years.

I would have liked to have sampled a Federico milonga but there will be another next month.


Regards,

Clive

Clive Long
15th-March-2006, 12:34 PM
I can't make Saturday the 18th - already booked. I might well come up to a book launch on Wednesday 5th April - it's in Chelesa but I could come along to the Dome afterwards if anyone else can make it that night. What time does the milonga start?
Jon,

I have put Wed 5th April in my diary for the Dome

See http://www.zerohouruk.com/

Milonga starts at 9pm.

I will reconfirm nearer the time but don't intend to drop out.

Salon atmosphere. Don't be intimidated by the general standard of dancing.


Clive

JonD
15th-March-2006, 05:37 PM
That's great. I'll book in for this book launch and try to fix up a client meeting for the 6th to provide a formal justification for the trip!

Has anyone got any ideas on a reasonable hotel near the Dome? The places I normally use would be a bit of a drag late in the evening.

I think CeeCee said she'd be there - any other takers?

Clive Long
15th-March-2006, 05:55 PM
That's great. I'll book in for this book launch and try to fix up a client meeting for the 6th to provide a formal justification for the trip!

Has anyone got any ideas on a reasonable hotel near the Dome? The places I normally use would be a bit of a drag late in the evening.

I think CeeCee said she'd be there - any other takers?
Great!

Tufnell Park is on the Northern Line. Euston is, say, 10 minutes away on the tube. The Ibis and Holiday Inns near Euston Station are dull but clean, reasonable prices and near the station, if that is relevant. Tufnell Park is not your average tourist destination - but plays host to some elegant (& expensive) Victorian townhouses.

Clive

Clive Long
17th-March-2006, 07:54 PM
Friday 17 March, Finchley

So what did we do? I'm not sure really.

I don't think we did anything new. It is all fading.

Words, impressions, contradictions

Keep torso vertically aligned
Think of torso as a rectangle between shoulders and hips
Pull belly into back
Internal tension, external fluidity
Push down into the floor through a triangle under your feet
Vertical Line up through head
Everything from the centre
Pivot: head, shoulders, feet
All foot movement through the central/neutral position
Pull down back muscles (Latissmus dorsi?)
Elbow in, elbow point down
Body control, no body tension
Brush legs, knees and ankles as you walk
Don't walk like a duck
Where is leader's shoulder guiding the follower?
Walk round common axis
Walk round leader as axis

The pathway of infinite minute adjustments

One figure I remember

Common axis
Both forward ocho
Both Side step
Both Backward Ocho
Both Repeat, repeat, repeat
Both Step on the circle
Leaders reverses direction by moving partner: forward ocho, forward ocho

Also something about leader putting feet in then changing direction of partner (sacada?).Clumsy, clumsy, clumsy.

That's it.

Must practise, must practise, Bad boy, bad boy.

Clive :sad:

Lynn
18th-March-2006, 12:53 AM
Also something about leader putting feet in then changing direction of partner (sacada?).I think this is a displacement? The leader sort of pushes the followers leg away with his leg, but different from a barrida. I'm remembering back to Amir teaching it in a Jango workshop at Scarborough Feb 05 so I'm not entirely sure. (He was teaching it in the second Jango class at Storm but I couldn't drag myself away from the Boudoir to go to the class).

Lory
18th-March-2006, 02:24 AM
[B]Keep torso vertically aligned
Think of torso as a rectangle between shoulders and hips
Pull belly into back
Internal tension, external fluidity
Push down into the floor through a triangle under your feet
Vertical Line up through head
Everything from the centre
Pivot: head, shoulders, feet
All foot movement through the central/neutral position
Pull down back muscles (Latissmus dorsi?)
Elbow in, elbow point down
Body control, no body tension
Brush legs, knees and ankles as you walk
Don't walk like a duck
Where is leader's shoulder guiding the follower?
Walk round common axis
Walk round leader as axis


So basically, a normal, everyday Tango lesson then! :na:

philsmove
18th-March-2006, 10:34 AM
Friday 17 March, Finchley

Words, impressions, contradictions

Clive :sad:

cheer up Clive :nice:

Sometime my teachers advice seems contradict Newton's third laws of physics,
but at last lights pre Salon lesson, I had a lot of help from more experienced dances and I now realise the opposite force comes from ones partner

I stayed on for the “Salon” and although the DJ (is there a special tango name for a DJ ) played tandas separated by a "cortina" many of the regulars seem to fix. and I could not help but notice, did the same moves over and over again

I will try and find out the difference between a Milonga and a Salon. I think a salon is little more genteel. One definition I have come across is “Tango for the ballroom” not to be confused with ballroom Tango

I have been trying to persuade Lynn, to move to Bristol but reading this thread, I am tempted to move to London:cheers:

Lynn
18th-March-2006, 12:05 PM
Hmm, just thinking about the 'contradictions' Clive mentioned. Is it because tango is so complex that the teachers need to say one thing, but then qualify that with another?

One example. My teacher last night was trying to show the difference between leading an ocho and a gancho. She showed the man's right hand moving towards his chest to lead the step across (from sandwich) into a gancho - one partner was pulling me forward very strongly, then backward for gancho and I was having a very hard time not falling over. I was pulled completely off balance. I tried to ask him to soften it and he said 'but the teacher said the man needs to move his hand towards his chest' and would listen to nothing I said about pulling me off balance, and refused to try it with the teacher (which I also suggested) because as far as he was concerned he knew what the teacher had said and I shouldn't comment on it!:rolleyes: (I would have been very frustrated by this but I had earlier been dancing with a partner who could lead it very well.)


I have been trying to persuade Lynn, to move to Bristol but reading this thread, I am tempted to move to London:cheers:Well I'm planning to visit Bristol.* And London. And Dublin.

I need a better paid job. :(

*Note to self, book flights to Bristol.

philsmove
18th-March-2006, 12:51 PM
...... - one partner was pulling me forward very strongly, then backward for gancho and I was having a very hard time not falling over. I was pulled completely off balance. I.[/SIZE]


This is were MJ experience comes in useful. I know, a strong lead does not mean, wrenching my partner arms out of their sockets

It is really is very difficult learning Tango, when you are practicing with other beginners, the solution appears to be to rotate with the more experienced dancers and may be go for private lessons*, which seem to be more common in Tango than MJ

*
I need a better paid job.

:yeah:

And one were I don’t work weekends

CeeCee
18th-March-2006, 12:52 PM
originally posted by The Sad One
So what did we do? I'm not sure really.

I don't think we did anything new. It is all fading.

Words, impressions, contradictions
Poor Clive, you sounded really down after your lesson but why so? Your description of the class was detailed, so you clearly remembered a lot. If you didn’t do anything new, then you’ve covered a mountain of Tango stuff, perhaps that’s why it feels like it’s fading, just too much to take in. At least we’re all in this together.

The contradictions add to our uncertainty, at least you have the luxury of the same weekly teacher, I’m still flitting about sifting through the varied contrary information that I’m inevitably receiving.

Originally posted by Philsmove
I have been trying to persuade Lynn, to move to Bristol but reading this thread, I am tempted to move to London
Simply a matter of time…





Sueño el tango
I didn’t choose Tango, Tango chose me
The journey continues…
One body four legs
Feel the music, dance the feeling

Lynn
18th-March-2006, 12:58 PM
It is really is very difficult learning Tango, when you are practicing with other beginners, the solution appears to be to rotate with the more experienced dancers and may be go for private lessons*, which seem to be more common in Tango than MJ I learnt so much in the same class dancing with a patient partner as we tried things to see what worked. We don't have any freestyle/practice time to 'select' a partner - and we have to just rotate on one person, so I can't choose who I get in the rotation, but I hope I get this partner again. Its given me a clearer idea of the sort of person I would like as a practice partner or someone to have private lessons with.

philsmove
18th-March-2006, 01:19 PM
I learnt so much in the same class dancing with a patient partner .


My classes do not have a strick rotation, so it's the survival of the fittest

Leroy will snap his fingers say “change “ and if you hesitate you are out

I found with MJ the only way to “move up” was too practice moves and routines with a regular partner

Once we had learnt the move with each other we could do the move with anyone


At least we’re all in this together.

:yeah:

Lory
18th-March-2006, 02:20 PM
My classes do not have a strick rotation, so it's the survival of the fittest

Leroy will snap his fingers say “change “ and if you hesitate you are out


We had this in a Ballroom class once.

There were about 8 men and 14 ladies, so in my mind it would have been 'fair' if I had one go 'on' and one go 'off' ;) but quite a few of the ladies didn't seem to understand the principle of 'self regulating fairness' and NEVER stood out. :angry:
They simply grabbed another partner and I was left at the side for 3 or 4 changes in a row. :rolleyes: IMO this system is a very BAD way of rotating. Your forced into be 'pushy, or you simply don't get a go!:sad:

Lynn
18th-March-2006, 04:48 PM
A few weeks back I ended up waiting out for 1/2 hour (at least) at one time which was very frustrating. This time when I arrived there was myself and one other woman about to join the class - we were both being so polite and saying 'you can have N' (who has been dancing tango a while), as she was slightly ahead of me, I told her to go ahead and went up to the two other guys waiting out, the one I got was the one I learnt the most with!

Not everyone last night must have been rotating on properly as the teacher commented that we must rotate on one in the line of dance, no going the other way or swapping around. I did find that I got several guys twice or even three times, and some not at all, due to the changing order as we moved round the room at different speeds.

JonD
19th-March-2006, 12:39 AM
Great description
I'd never have remembered all that! It's frightening isn't it; all these things not to think about but which make such a huge difference to the dance. I'm really impressed by the stuff that's being covered in your classes. They sound excellent.


Well I'm planning to visit Bristol.* And London. And Dublin.
Hey, what about Devon? You'll have to come over for a Tango Mango at some stage!

I'm so glad I'm a man! I'd hate to have to fight for a partner or sit out for extended periods of time. AT teachers seem much less careful about rotations than MJ teachers. At the Exeter class on a Tuesday there is normally one woman over and Ruth tries to dance with that person when we're working on an exercise. In general we're very good about making sure we dance with each partner but it is a small class so that's quite easy.

Clive Long
21st-March-2006, 12:36 AM
Miscommunication

The Dome, Monday 20 March
7:25pm. Happy smiling faces. All ready for a nice technical lesson followed by some artistic shuffling over the floor.

7:35pm. Glum faces. Confusion, Disappointment - drifting off home. Miscommunication. There is a pattern developing here Clive.

Later more dancers appeared then disappeared as they understood the specialised nature of the class.

Some relatively new Tangueors (?) came to Tufnell Park Dome tonight - partly because it gets good publicity from me.

Without going into who said what to whom and when, Kicca was teaching a class of Boleos (?spelling?) with a young Argentinian dancer. Not fantastically difficult on first encounter but full of subtlety as well as "big" movements. Not good stuff for a relatively new Tango dancer.

Braveheart and Fred Flintstone decided to give the lesson a whirl.

So the subject of the evening Boleos.

Boleos are dramatic leg swings created by the leader impeding the progress of the follower with the follower carrying the momentum through her free leg. It all looks very spectacular. Cannot be practised without a partner.

The stages to develop the move

1. The only non-partnered bit. Weight on one leg, swing the free leg from the hip in line of body. Big, pendulous swings. Change legs.

2. Partners face. Compress palms. Leader slightly towards follower then both "sit" back with leader holding the backs of follower's hands. Then move in again, compress palms, repeat, repeat. The idea is get an opposite transfer of weight rather than the dancers' weight moving in the same direction.

3. Move to standard embrace. Dancers maybe at a right-angle to each other. (Point of disagreement follows). Leader shifts slightly to right (towards follower) to get momentum into follower then leader immediately swings lower body to left (away from follower) keeping torso upright. Leader's hand behind followers back provides connection. Then, leader shifts towards follower but impedes follower stepping by connection in "forward" hand. Then net result of this transfer of connection and momentum is the follower's free leg starts to swing (should start to swing) like a bell. It's all magic.
Transfer of connection - Franck's class - it's all there.

4. Avoiding the excrutiating detail of 3. Basically standard embrace. Side-step to leader's left. Leader performs weight change. Leader moves forward then immediately "sits" back to transfer the momentum. Follower's free leg swings. Then some subtle movement of leader's feet and timing of the transfer of connection, and block to transfer that momentum, and blimey O'Reilly, it works.

... and two hours later ...

5. Lots of options of how to "enter" into a Boleo - basically from anywhere. It's about getting the momentum, follower moving in opposite direction to the follower and the free leg swinging. Like pushing a swing to build up the degree of swing - good timing either makes or breaks this.

Conclusion
**********

Sorry for the wasted evening of the people who had travelled a distance to get to the class.

Infinite subtlety and precision movements resulting in something looking explosive.

In principle the move could be lead in "freestyle" - in practice a little warning might be appreciated by a follower.

What did the follower gain / experience?
Clive

JonD
21st-March-2006, 01:22 AM
Boleos: my current nightmare. It's the timing that's so damn difficult. I did them seriously for the first time at Tango Valley last summer. After about 20 minutes of failed attempts Julie got fed up and asked Marisa, a wonderful teacher, to let me lead her so I could be "sorted out". Marisa was so patient and kind! We were leading them from a backward ocho; Marisa explained that the aim was for me to step to the point where her working leg would land if I let the ocho continue and at the same time lead her to stop the ocho or reverse it. That sounded simple enough but I still can't manage to do it at precisely the right time 9 months later. I'll get it one day ......


What did the follower gain / experience?
Maybe the importance of keeping a "free leg" - that the working leg is relaxed and sort of hangs from the hip. All the movement starts from the hip and the leg should swing like a pendulum. It's one of the very things Julie was working on during our practice on Saturday as she has a habit of bending her working leg at the knee as she steps back.

Sorry to hear about the confusion. Keep smiling and drink beer!

Lynn
21st-March-2006, 12:11 PM
Seems that frustration is a part of learning tango. Like life really. But worth it.


I need a better paid job. :( Sorted! :D

Feelingpink
21st-March-2006, 12:33 PM
Miscommunication

The Dome, Monday 20 March
7:25pm. Happy smiling faces. All ready for a nice technical lesson followed by some artistic shuffling over the floor.

7:35pm. Glum faces. Confusion, Disappointment - drifting off home. Miscommunication. There is a pattern developing here Clive....

{other detailed stuff about the class}Last night was a bit disappointing, but it's just stuff and stuff happens. Sometimes there are other things in life that are more important - including friendship - and we now have our names on the email list, so this shouldn't happen again. :hug: And hey, you were early for the lesson! :wink:

CeeCee
21st-March-2006, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by CL The Memory Meister
Miscommunication

The Dome, Monday 20 March

details, details and more details...

Excellent recollection, how do you remember all this stuff Clive?

Originally posted by FeelingPink
Last night was a bit disappointing, but it's just stuff and stuff happens.
Glad you’re being philosophical about it, all part of the journey right?

Not sure I would be as gracious as you though as it took me an hour and a half to get to the Dome last night so I would have been more than a bit miffed if I’d had to leave without some sort of class/lesson/practica whatever they wanted to call it last night.


Originally posted by CL
Braveheart and Fred Flintstone decided to give the lesson a whirl.
Now I’m worried! I don’t see us as either of these characters so I’m afraid to ask which one you are cos that means… Oh what the heck, which one are you Clive?



Originally posted by CL
The only non-partnered bit. Weight on one leg, swing the free leg from the hip in line of body. Big, pendulous swings. Change legs.
No fun at all and no allowance made for doing this exercise in heels, you guys have it so easy in your flat shoes.


Originally posted by CL
... and two hours later
Just in case you think he’s exaggerating, well, he’s not.
It was a long two hours and the class felt so long that I thought my watch had stopped.

My memory of last night is that the class was challenging with lots of chat about inertia, tension, connection, coordination, timing and balance. Clive says that I shouldn't put people off by saying that there is lots of physics and mathematics to consider when learning Tango but when I think about it, there is. Anyway, perhaps give the boleos a year or so before trying again!


Originally posted by JonD
Boleos: my current nightmare.
In a perverse kind of way, that's good to hear. Once again the support of the Forum keeps us sane. Your experiences helped to make me feel better because these boleos are hard work. However, I think we did learn lots from the session particularly as you say, about keeping the free leg relaxed.








I didn’t choose Tango, Tango chose me
Feel the music, dance the feeling
The journey continues…
One body four legs
Sueño el tango

frodo
21st-March-2006, 10:24 PM
Actually on topic though it doesn't feel like it.

There is a weekly dance 3pm - 8pm on Sundays at 'Sound' in Leicester Square.

While i've been vaguely aware of it for years, I'd never been before.

I think it is nominally primarily Ballroom, but there was a fair amount of Salsa and many indeterminate latin tracks and some rocknroll. To an extent the actual dance played was just a guideline - lots of people just danced what they felt like rather than worry about doing the right track. A large proportion of the tracks were probably MJable.

Though there were some young people doing ballroom practice, the age group was probably older than modern jive / AT in general. The atmosphere did seem wonderfully unselfconcious.

It wasn't packed and the dance floor was almost empty for the last hour. The floor does have pillars which take some getting used to on progressive dances.

Relative to my expection I was pretty impressed with the variety of music, and some of the tracks - in particular a more melody based waltz. There was a DJ who seemed very happy to take requests. Though how he managed to sweep the floor clean by playing Micheal Buble's Moondance (as a request) I have difficulty understanding.

This was slightly embarrassing, as whoever requested the track didn't show up, and it wasn't like we were going to pass up a slow foxtrot with a empty floor.

No AT tracks were played for the hour and a half I was there ( but they did play Ballroom Tango's ) - though I'm pretty sure the DJ would have played some if requested.

JonD
22nd-March-2006, 12:44 PM
'Sound' in Leicester Square.
That sounds interesting - a really eclectic mix of music and styles. I'd love to be competent in lots of different dances and really be able to make the most of a night like that. Sadly, my Lindy is pretty poor, my Salsa is pretty terrible and my ballroom is non-existent though, as Julie is doing a qualification so she can teach ballroom, I sense that will change shortly!

I've booked trains and hotels for the trip to The Dome on 5th April. I'm really looking forward to that. It'll be great to meet some of you good folk!

Clive Long
22nd-March-2006, 09:51 PM
<< snip >>
I've booked trains and hotels for the trip to The Dome on 5th April. I'm really looking forward to that. It'll be great to meet some of you good folk!
Goody.

Just drop a posting saying when and from where you expect to be travelling that afternoon and we could meet in the scary pub downstairs before-hand.

Clive

philsmove
22nd-March-2006, 11:17 PM
April 5th the Dome
Managed to get my accommodation sorted
Look forward to meeting you all

:cheers:

Clive Long
23rd-March-2006, 01:39 AM
The Dome, Wednesday 22 March

It is wonderful to go and watch the dancing at the Dome Milonga on a Wednesday evening. But at some point you just gotta dive in with the wolves and find out if you sink (ooh I love mixing my metaphors)

I'm too old to be embarassed or even put off most things :rolleyes: but I was subject to a scorcher tonight :whistle: . I asked one lady to dance and let her know I was a relative beginner. Her response was clear.

Tut.
Silent intake of breath.
Slow, audible exhalation of breath.

I felt like saying, "Well if you feel like that, stuff it." :mad:

I knew I should have (with good grace) given her the option not to dance as I had told her I am a relative novice. By telling her that, what was I to expect as a response?

Anyway we battled on :sick: . Toes were trodden on :blush: , shins were kicked :blush: :blush: . I was told I was on the wrong foot :what: . I knew that :angry: . But her being so dogmatic about following my imprecise lead was getting us nowhere :sad: .

Unfortunately at the end of the dance my blood was up :angry: . I felt like going home. The lady asked, in a way I took negatively, "How long have you been dancing". I replied immediately, with something I took great pleasure in at the time :devil: but was, on reflection, pretty shabby, "Obviously not long enough". And I just walked off. Touchy stuff this.

Well it couldn't get worse. So I observed for quite some time and picked out followers who seemed Ok but not "expert" in any way. And I plodded through the next hour or so. There are 4 followers there who are supremely patient and adjust to errors in my lead.

Maybe the thing is to go to a lesson with a practica after and have an agreement between say 4 or 6 of you that you will just practise, practise, practise until your feet bleed what was covered in the lesson. I can't see there is any other way.

Sorry my posts always seem so negative :( . I'm just so lucky to have such a place to dance virtually on my doorstep :blush: . I'm going to give this 6 months then re-assess whether I am getting anywhere at all. When I get some money I will do the private lesson thing. Kitchen sink, all that.

A nice point was to meet Kate, Will and Amir and watch them dance.


CRL

Clive Long
23rd-March-2006, 02:03 AM
Oh, I also met Victor the Portuguese guy who goes to Ashtons and teaches the pretty girls Tango. He's a lovely guy - and quite cheeky.

He told me about a class in Golders Green between 2pm and 5pm on Saturdays. Tempting, tempting.

CRL

JonD
23rd-March-2006, 02:50 AM
Sorry my posts always seem so negative
Nah - I know exactly where you're coming from! It is bl**dy frustrating and milongas can suck the positive energy straight out of you. You are used to being able to just get up and dance which makes it all the worse.

Any dancer who "tuts" at another dancer deserves all they get and I love the "obviously not long enough" line! It's great that there are some followers who are good enough, strong enough and confident enough to give you space to learn - I sometimes think we undervalue the culture of MJ which promotes that attitude.

It's going to take you more than another 6 months to get to the point where you are confident of giving a follower "a good dance" so stick with it - you're obviously getting better, absorbing the grammar and enjoying the challenge so please don't give yourself any harsh deadlines! This time next year you'll be planning your first trip to Tango Valley or somewhere similar and relishing the prospect. You're right that practice is the key but that's dependent on finding someone who you can work with - I don't think you can develop AT skills in freestyle in the same way as you can MJ. The line of dance means you can't stop and say "Damn, I'm on the wrong foot; let's try that again".

There's no reason why you can't be lucky and find someone who enjoys putting in the hours and agonising over the technique. I know I'm incredibly fortunate to have Julie to dance with but that just proves it's possible. There are loads of leaders and followers who desire just that kind of dance partnership so it will happen. Set up a practica, invite some people and I bet you find a kindred spirit. (I'd find a practica straight after a lesson a bit exhausting - I'm normally "greyed out". A couple of days after might work better - if there are enough nights in the week).

I remember that, when I started MJ, I looked at some people and thought "Wow, they're really good dancers". Nearly 6 years down the track I don't consider them anything special and wonder that their dancing doesn't appear to have changed or improved in all that time. I bet you've had the same experience. That holds true in AT; some of the people who you think are great now aren't that special - and the ones who "tut" are probably the least special of the lot.

Mind you, I sometimes completely misinterpret people's attitudes and feelings. A few months ago I was dancing a reasonably fast Tango with a woman who I thought was briliant when I first started AT - I used to find her as intimidating as hell and I always felt I'd let her down after I'd danced with her. Over the years I'd got the impression that she avoided dancing with me because she didn't think I was any good. Anyway, I was really enjoying the dance and quietly laughing with pure delight when she asked me why I was laughing at her. That brought me down to earth with a bump: I was amazed that she could feel so vulnerable and unsure of herself that she'd even consider that I was laughing at her rather than with her. I couldn't have been more wrong about her. She felt the same about me as I'd felt about her. Crazy - and think of all those great dances I've missed!


Tempting, tempting
Go, go! (But get some practica time in as well as all the classes).

Lynn
23rd-March-2006, 09:21 AM
Unfortunately at the end of the dance my blood was up :angry: . I felt like going home. The lady asked, in a way I took negatively, "How long have you been dancing". I replied immediately, with something I took great pleasure in at the time :devil: but was, on reflection, pretty shabby, "Obviously not long enough". And I just walked off. Touchy stuff this. A 'bad' dance in MJ and we would just shrug our shoulders and dance with someone else. The same in tango can crush us. Tango seems to be much more emotional so we open ourselves to feeling pain and frustration...and feeling joy. A good dance can lift us. Perhaps its best to go to milongas or practicas with some friends who we can ask for a dance within our comfort zone - to overcome those not so good dances.

Sorry my posts always seem so negative :( . Please continue to share your frustrations, its all part of tango.:flower:

I'm just so lucky to have such a place to dance virtually on my doorstep :blush: . You are!

I'm going to give this 6 months then re-assess whether I am getting anywhere at all. I'm facing the prospect after next week of possibly having 6 months with no regular tango lessons. :( Or longer. While I will do my best with any workshops I can get to travelling outside of Belfast, I will really miss being able to dance regularly and I know my dancing will suffer as a result. That's a reason to feel like giving up.:tears:

philsmove
23rd-March-2006, 10:22 AM
The Dome, Wednesday 22 March

CRL

:clap: :clap: :clap:
It’s so nice to know we are not alone
Keep up the good work
You definatly need a thick skin to learn tango but not all the ladies are ice queens. There are some experiaced dancers out there who are happy to dance with beginners; you just have to find them

Clive Long
23rd-March-2006, 10:25 AM
:clap: :clap: :clap:
It’s so nice to know we are not alone
Keep up the good work
You definatly need a thick skin to learn tango but not all the ladies are ice queens. There are some experiaced dancers out there who are happy to dance with beginners; you just have to find them
Yep. I am getting to know who they are at The Dome - and they are lovely, accomplished dancers. I will still ask other dancers and accept knock backs. The fact that other good dancers will dance with me is part of the "reward". Strange, but true.

Clive

Tiggerbabe
23rd-March-2006, 10:31 AM
Victor the Portuguese guy who goes to Ashtons and teaches the pretty girls Tango.
So few words, but what a great description :rofl:

Clive Long
23rd-March-2006, 10:40 AM
Stonkingly good post. Wise words from MJ's own Tango Agony Uncle.

Stuff from your post that should be obvious to me, but is really supportive and appreciated ...


Nah - I know exactly where you're coming from! It is bl**dy frustrating and milongas can suck the positive energy

straight out of you. You are used to being able to just get up and dance which makes it all the worse.
You know I had never realised that. From (MJ) hero :wink: to (Tango) zero. But the rewards in Tango look so great ..


It's great that there are some followers who are good enough, strong enough and confident enough to give you space to learn -

I sometimes think we undervalue the culture of MJ which promotes that attitude.

I think you are right. I had thought (or more accurately not considered) that the attitude and behaviour would translate from MJ to Tango. The support in Tango is more patchy - but it is there. Again, I suppose being a guy I have it easier because the women may wish to nurture potential dance partners.

To be honest I think this "ladies wait to be asked because that's the way it is done in Tango" just stinks.


It's going to take you more than another 6 months to get to the point where you are confident of giving a follower "a good dance"
:tears:


so stick with it - you're obviously getting better,

Who said that? I demand to see the evidence!


I don't think you can develop AT skills in freestyle in the same way as you can MJ. The line of dance means you can't stop

and say "Damn, I'm on the wrong foot; let's try that again".
Exactly my experience and thinking last night.

Damn, this man is good.


Set up a practica, invite some people and I bet you find a kindred spirit. (I'd find a practica straight after a lesson a bit

exhausting - I'm normally "greyed out". A couple of days after might work better - if there are enough nights in the week).

Yep. Maybe my role for a while is to take responsibility for coordinating such sessions so us learners are not all floating alone, independently. Just gotta get my work sorted and get a regular pattern.



Mind you, I sometimes completely misinterpret people's attitudes and feelings.

And I thought it was just me.


Go, go! (But get some practica time in as well as all the classes).
Of course. Now the "Tango structure" of class, practica, milonga makes perfect sense.

Thank-you :worthy: :D

JonD
23rd-March-2006, 10:55 AM
Wise words from MJ's own Tango Agony Uncle.
I don't think so! I was out at dinner with my senior management team last night and was quite "relaxed" when I got home and decided to pontificate. (I drink so rarely since I've been dancing that I get "dribbling drunk" on very little. I must have had a bottle and a half of wine last night but managed to hold it together. Mind you, I feel positively poisoned this morning. Yuk - I don't want to be at work, I want to go home to bed).


I'm facing the prospect after next week of possibly having 6 months with no regular tango lessons.
Positive waves - everyone send positive waves! A 6 month drought is unthinkable.

Lynn
23rd-March-2006, 11:12 AM
Positive waves - everyone send positive waves! A 6 month drought is unthinkable.Had an almost 2 year drought of regular MJ - but you can get away with not dancing it for months then going to a weekender and dancing lots. (I love weekenders.) I don't think that's going to work in tango.

And 6 months was based on the hope that there might be another tango course in September - I have no evidence to support that. I have heard there will be a workshop sometime in April. There will be at least one class and some practice time at Southport in June. There are rumours of milongas in Newry (too far for a regular night but OK for a Saturday). But what I really need is somewhere to go once a week to learn and practice. And/or someone to practice with. Not sure either will happen.

I got an email yesterday from a friend going to BsAs next week - who through lack of anywhere to dance tango has lost his passion for it and is hoping the trip will reinspire him.

I can see tango perhaps going the way of a past passion of mine (horses) - something that I either immerse myself in, or step back from completely. Little bits here and there don't satisfy and only make me regret what I'm missing.

And then that would mean I couldn't visit the forum very much either as these tango threads that have been so encouraging would just make me feel worse. Oh dear.

What a depressing post. Sorry. :(

frodo
23rd-March-2006, 11:46 PM
... The line of dance means you can't stop and say "Damn, I'm on the wrong foot; let's try that again...I'm a little curious why not - obstruction to others / not starting from the same place / risk of being hit ?

Clive Long
24th-March-2006, 12:11 AM
Finchley March 23, 2006

Tension
Suspension

Lots of it.

JonD
24th-March-2006, 02:59 AM
I'm a little curious why not
The line of dance is pretty much sacrosanct. Disrupting it is close to a cardinal sin at a milonga. AT is quite frequently danced on very, very crowded floors which explains why the line of dance is so fiercly defended. If you pause or perform static figures for too long you'll get bumped; if you dance "too big" or do anything that threatens those around you (big boleos or ganchos) you'll find yourself boxed in, reversing against the line of dance is positively dangerous - if you persist you'll get banned from the milonga. Don't overtake, don't change lanes (or if you do either then be damn careful). It's all about respect for the other dancers - bad floorcraft is scorned. There is a bit of a fetish about being able to dance in small spaces - dancing on a single floor tile is an interesting exercise! So, the last thing you do in a milonga is stop and work out a movement. That's for the practica.

It sounds a bit harsh but in reality it adds to the dance. Sometimes you get this magical feeling that you're dancing with your partner and everyone else on the floor simultaneously. The line kind of carries you along and you're constantly sensing and reacting to what those around you are doing. Plus, you can't perform set figures or moves because the space keeps changing - you plan to step to a particular spot in 3 beats time and by the time you get there another couple has occupied that bit of floor so you have to react and lead something else (watching good dancers in those circumstances is awesome - they see a space and within an instant have used it to do something beautiful). I guess it's one of the reasons why a milonga can be so intimidating.

Clive Long
24th-March-2006, 01:49 PM
Lessons Monday 27 and Tuesday 28 March, Dome

I phoned Kicca this morning to check the status of lessons at The Dome next week.

The Monday lesson is more Boleos - not good if you haven't done lesson 1 and not going with a partner.

The Tuesday lesson is a beginners' with Hamza 7-8pm £9. Intermediate 8-9pm (both lessons £13). Maybe a bit pricey.

Seeing Fed seems to be a bit unstable at the moment, other options?

I can think of TangoInAction - nice standard but can be a bit crowded - and assumes at least an introductory class has been taken.

Badger me to explore the options.

Clive

Lynn
25th-March-2006, 01:50 AM
What a depressing post. Sorry. :(Apologies again. :blush: I just felt really sad that day about tango.

An encouraging PM helped a lot. :hug: I just need to be aware this is something I will make very slow, very gradual progress with. Possibly in little bits and pieces rather than steady weekly lessons but progress none the less. Talking to another dancer tonight (who was the person who brought teachers up from Dublin in Sep 04 so has been learning tango since at least some time before that) who said they tried a Dublin workshop last summer and it was so difficult they felt like giving up tango. So I will need to choose any workshops very carefully.

They didn't give up, and neither will I.

I enquired about private lessons but cost means I would need to take them with someone else - and probably schedule several hours of practice time for each hour of lesson. The search for a practice partner continues.

And I know I'm in the wrong thread but my other post was here...and to keep it on thread - any tango events in London round Easter time?

spindr
25th-March-2006, 02:38 AM
And I know I'm in the wrong thread but my other post was here...and to keep it on thread - any tango events in London round Easter time?
Why not fly in to Southampton? http://www.tangouk.co.uk/events.htm

SpinDr

Lynn
25th-March-2006, 03:22 PM
Why not fly in to Southampton? http://www.tangouk.co.uk/events.htm Sounds good - a weekend of tango -

The Tango Tangk concept is a weekend full of tango - a mix of private lessons, workshops, free dancing, shared meals and an evening milonga with regular spontaneous live music, as musicians who dance share their love of tango with us. As well as dancing, there is plenty of time and space to sit and chat, share tango thoughts, take a nap between workshops, prepare shared meals and eat together. It is a wonderful celebration of dance and friendship.... pretty good value, private lessons available. But elsewhere on the site...
All of our workshops require you to come along with someone to learn to dance with. Bring a friend, bring a colleague, bring anybody (of the opposite sex) who wants to learn to dance. I know that refers to the Toolkit for absolute beginners, but as the Tangk expects 'basic' knowledge (3 months, which I now have), even if booking with someone else isn't required, I would prefer to go with someone near my own level, to make the most of any private lessons etc.

Anyone else interested?

Lynn
25th-March-2006, 07:07 PM
As I suspected, I can only book if I book with a man...

spindr
25th-March-2006, 08:48 PM
As I suspected, I can only book if I book with a man...
Isn't gender balancing wonderful?
SpinDr

Lynn
26th-March-2006, 12:19 PM
Isn't gender balancing wonderful? Yes it is. I'd rather have to book with a man or in an equally balanced group, than go to something with lots of extra women and spend a lot of my time standing waiting at the edge in either classes or social dancing. Even if it means I can't go to every event I want to. I can't afford to anyway and if I miss something because I'm too late or can't find someone to book with me, then there is always something else to go to.

Sorry, here I am in North London, again! :blush:

*Goes back to other thread where she belongs*

Clive Long
30th-March-2006, 10:33 PM
Finchely Thursday 30th March

The rudiments of boleo

This class didn't attempt the whole free-leg-swing-at-the-hip bit we were plunged into at the Dome.

This class was focussing on the idea of weight opposition and the leader's positioning for ocho to generate the tiniest leg flick in the follower.

I will try to paint the overall picture.

Leader and follower are preparing, shifting weight side-to-side. Then leader lets the follower actually start the side step. When the follower is committed the leader shifts in the opposite direction. The idea is to let the follower travel sideways to the maximum of her range and to stop her moving by whole body weight transmitted through the arms rather than pulling the follower to stop her. Then get follower to move in opposite sideways direction and think about the centre of gravity of the two bodies remaining central - a bit like two pendulums being perfectly in time but in opposite direction.

Then we worked on backward ocho where the leader rather than moving side-to-side in straight lines, formed at the point of collection a more cylindrical path around the follower. Then the leader looked into the space the follower's back step had yet to occupy (while of course keeping frame, shoulders, torso, hips etc. in exactly the right position) before leading the backward ocho. We continued to do this for a few ochos, then just after the point of collection and rotation of the follower, a split-second after the follower's back leg started to move but while her centre of gravity was still over the fixed foot, the leader stopped her torso moving. Her free leg automatically "flicked" back. Then we led straight into a forward ocho. If you can get the timing of the "resist / block" just right :rolleyes: it results in a snappy and stylish ornament that flows into another move.

JonD
31st-March-2006, 12:37 AM
The rudiments of boleo
Another great post Clive - thank you! I'll need to read it again more closely tomorrow as it gives me a different take on how I might overcome my inability to lead boleos well. Perhaps you could run me through it at The Dome next Wednesday?

Clive Long
31st-March-2006, 06:26 AM
Another great post Clive - thank you! I'll need to read it again more closely tomorrow as it gives me a different take on how I might overcome my inability to lead boleos well. Perhaps you could run me through it at The Dome next Wednesday?
Thanks.

I find the words I use to describe Tango movements quite inadequate. Either there is not enough detail and subtleties of the movement are lost or too much and it is difficult to see the wood for the trees. To be honest the notes are more an aide-memoire for me and hopefully others get a "flavour" of what the movement is. Perhaps, some "3D avatar / cartoon" rendered on a computer screen could convey the movement better - but then I think it is preferable to just do the real thing! I still need my notes - must read them sometime.

I will be at the Dome for the milonga by 9pm. I will try to rearrange an earlier meeting if people want to meet earlier in the pub. Can we we have a roll-call of who is coming so no-one gets abandoned if coming along?

Clive

JonD
31st-March-2006, 02:01 PM
Can we we have a roll-call of who is coming so no-one gets abandoned if coming along?
Julie and I will be there. I doubt we'll get to The Dome until 9pm as we're going to a book launch in Piccadilly at 6.30pm and then will need to check into our hotel near Euston and change out of "grown-up clothes"!

Clive, can you act as coordinator? If everyone coming up PMs you their mobile numbers there'll be no need for you to carry a large umbrella!

Feelingpink
2nd-April-2006, 11:06 PM
Julie and I will be there. I doubt we'll get to The Dome until 9pm as we're going to a book launch in Piccadilly at 6.30pm and then will need to check into our hotel near Euston and change out of "grown-up clothes"!

Clive, can you act as coordinator? If everyone coming up PMs you their mobile numbers there'll be no need for you to carry a large umbrella!I look forward to meeting you guys at 9. I'll be doing the beginners' class first.

philsmove
3rd-April-2006, 06:24 PM
I am afraid my plans for Wednesday 5th have gorn completely pear shaped:tears:
Hope to meet you all another day

ducasi
3rd-April-2006, 06:51 PM
gorn... like the word ... it's got a sort of woody quality about it.

:D

Clive Long
3rd-April-2006, 09:08 PM
Julie and I will be there. I doubt we'll get to The Dome until 9pm as we're going to a book launch in Piccadilly at 6.30pm and then will need to check into our hotel near Euston and change out of "grown-up clothes"!

Clive, can you act as coordinator? If everyone coming up PMs you their mobile numbers there'll be no need for you to carry a large umbrella!
I aim to be in the pub between 8:30pm and 9pm.

Just call me when you arrive.

Clive

Clive Long
3rd-April-2006, 09:27 PM
The vagaries of Tango teachers

Arrived at Tufnell Park 30 minutes early - CeeCee still doesn't believe me.

There is one cafe in Tufnell Park that serves food that is not deep fried - in fact the cafe is a little gem. So I spent 30 minutes there - then met CeeCee outside the Dome - closed. Won't recount the sorry details but Kikka couldn't / didn't turn up. This happened before. :mad: I am going to be much more circumspect about encouraging people to attend this class as I feel responsible if there is a no-show by the teacher. For me, no problem as home is 15 minutes on the Tube. Others may have travelled over an hour to a lesson to be told no teaching was happening.

CeeCee and I decided to stay for a practica even though there was no lesson. We ran through some good exercises. The best was where CeeCee put her hands on my shoulders closed her eyes and I led her purely by the movement of my upper body. I felt a much stronger connection without the distraction of where to move my arms. Useful exercise. I should take my black book to a Practica and seize the opportunity to perform single or partner exercises.

So with CeeCee's discipline and enthusiasm (and good looks and charm and humour) we made an almost wasted evening into a productive evening. :grin:

CRL

Lynn
5th-April-2006, 04:43 PM
CeeCee, JonD, Clive, Feelingpink and whoever else is going tonight...have a lovely time! :flower:

Would love to be there, but looking forward to the LTFG at Southport.:D

Feelingpink
6th-April-2006, 10:22 AM
CeeCee, JonD, Clive, Feelingpink and whoever else is going tonight...have a lovely time! :flower:

Would love to be there, but looking forward to the LTFG at Southport.:DWe thought of you last night ... at our first LTFG (Dome) ... so here are the gang (from left, DavidJames, JonD, Julie, Clive Long & CeeCee). They made a lovely cosy cocoon for what would have otherwise been a fairly intimidating night. Another lovely man called Clive was there - someone I've met at a Jango T-Jive - which was nice. Bearing in mind the etiquette of women not asking men to dance (and stepping out of the forum comfort zone), I went over to talk to a guy I'd danced with a lot on Tuesday night's and last night's beginners' class (of 5 couples), thinking that perhaps he'd ask me. We chatted for a few minutes, then the woman sitting next to him asked him to dance & he suggested that I sit in their seats for when they got back. :sick: I guess that was his get-out clause. Anyway, will avoid another milonga for a few months until I've some more lessons & practice under my belt and I might be worth dancing with.

Lynn
6th-April-2006, 01:08 PM
We thought of you last night ... at our first LTFG (Dome) ... so here are the gang (from left, DavidJames, JonD, Julie, Clive Long & CeeCee). They made a lovely cosy cocoon for what would have otherwise been a fairly intimidating night. Thanks for the pic. So when is the next LTFG?

Bearing in mind the etiquette of women not asking men to dance (and stepping out of the forum comfort zone), I went over to talk to a guy I'd danced with a lot on Tuesday night's and last night's beginners' class (of 5 couples), thinking that perhaps he'd ask me. We chatted for a few minutes, then the woman sitting next to him asked him to dance & he suggested that I sit in their seats for when they got back. :sick: I guess that was his get-out clause. :( I would have thought he would too, but as she asked him maybe he thought you were going to ask him? Good for you for stepping out of the comfort zone anyway.
Anyway, will avoid another milonga for a few months until I've some more lessons & practice under my belt and I might be worth dancing with. I'm sure you are worth dancing with. :flower: But I know how you feel as I haven't ventured to a milonga yet (OK there has only been one and it was Sat night, when our first Ceroc NI party was on). I was hoping to try one as there were to be regular ones but they are changing into couples only classes and practicas. I might venture to one when I'm next over there, as long as there are a few forumites going!

Feelingpink
6th-April-2006, 01:34 PM
Thank you for the kind words, but frankly, in tango, I'm not great to dance with - it's a bit like having done two west coast swing classes & then going to a freestyle - no matter how good the leader is and whatever I might know about following, I need to know more 'stuff' before I'm 'danceable'. It's just time to learn and practise - not a biggie.

JonD
6th-April-2006, 03:13 PM
Thank you for the kind words, but frankly, in tango, I'm not great to dance with
With all due respect, that's rubbish! I really enjoyed our dances. You connect beautifully - I love the way you sort of snuggle your head into the leaders shoulder, you wait for and "listen" to the lead and, best of all, you laugh when I muck it up. It was strange that we kept getting milongas or, horror of horrors, Salsa! I'd love to do a tanda of slow, intense Tangos with you - so you'll have to come down to a Mango midweek.

Julie and I had a great night at The Dome. Meeting Feelingpink, CeeCee, Clive and David made it really friendly and welcoming. You are all lovely people! The atmosphere was briliant and I spent a good few minutes just watching the faces of the dancers as they swirled by. (We were at a table on a sort of raised "stage" to one side of the floor). The dancing was lovely - we went back to our hotel on a "Tango High". Thank you all. We'll have to do it again soon.

Clive Long
6th-April-2006, 04:35 PM
I might venture to one when I'm next over there, as long as there are a few forumites going!
Tell us when you are coming and I'll be there.

Also with enough notice if you need accomodation we should be able to save on those costs by putting you up.

CRL

CeeCee
6th-April-2006, 09:42 PM
The Gathering
The Event – The Milonga
The Venue – The Dome, Tuffnell Park, London, England
The Date - Wednesday, 5th April 2006, AD
The Time – 21.00hrs til late

Well the Commonwealth Games may be over but the event of the season took place last night. Team members have been in training from a few weeks to a few years.

Training schedules:-
1. Travelling the world for private lessons
2. Regular weekly classes, same venue, same teacher
3. Variety of classes and venues (showing little loyalty to anyone)

A team event where some of the members have never met can be a risky business but luckily this wasn’t a competitive event and when the team members finally met each other last night they performed in pairs, swapping, dancing, chatting and laughing throughout the evening.

Some key players were missing as they were participating in other events like WCS and hot air ballooning, plus there was a small matter of distance to prevent others from attending.

The Final Team
CL – the long one, team organiser
FP – the newest one
JD – the knowledgeable one
J – the supportive one
DJ – the disciplined one, 5000 posts then… nada, nichts, niet, rien, zip.

(oh yes and little me)

It was a busy dance floor and quite an experience just being there. As Jon said we had a great vantage point from our table and there were some fabulous dancers to watch and be inspired by.

Venturing onto the floor was er, ‘interesting’, with so many people dancing I felt constantly aware of couples advancing, approaching, glancing, avoiding, overtaking, reacting and bumping. Some couples move quickly and cover a lot of ground, we can’t do that, yet! Perhaps a busy venue like that could have a beginners’ track then the ‘experts’ would be out of the way, like slow and fast lanes at the swimming pool.
(Nah, perhaps we just need L plates.)

Half way through the night after traditional Tango music, they played a few Tango Nuevo tracks then the music stopped.
The music changed.
Some puzzled expressions.
Lots of people left the floor, just a few couple remained.
This wasn’t tango, it was…............................................ .S A L S A!

Spotlight on DavidJames! Wow he can really Salsa, he stole the show. Well done DJ.

Lost in another world by way of light relief for a few minutes then back to traditional Tango and intense concentration.

I was hijacked in the milonga by a chap I don’t know, never seen him before in my life. After our dance he offered to tell me ‘one or two things’ about my technique. About six tracks later he’d instructed me on my head position, tension, arms, hands, back, upper body, ‘the centre’ (don’t ask) legs, feet, extension and transfer.

Okay okay okay, my issue is not so much what he said (he seemed to know what he was talking about), or how he said it (he was charming and polite enough) but bearing in mind this was not a practica but a milonga, why oh why did I allow a total stranger to steal so much of my time? Where else would I allow this to happen. Does tango makes us more tolerant or just a bit soppy?

Anyway, back to the hijacker, he’s not a teacher just a keen, seriously addicted enthusiast, who’s been learning for five years and in a few months time he's leaving his job, renting his flat out, using the income to finance a year in Buenos Aires where he’s going to have daily lessons and dance Tango every night. Now that’s dedication, we’re obviously not taking it seriously enough guys.

The class before the milonga was complicated, serious and hard work. Gonzalo and Solange looked lovely in their coordinated black and emerald green outfits and they had us stepping between each others’ feet and aiming for the partner's trailing leg, leading and following without holding and other tricky stuff. Most of us in the class seemed to struggle with it and I think I’ll probably have to revisit it in a year or so along with the linear boleos.

Our first LTFG was huge fun, what better way to spend an evening than in the company of lovely like-minded people. Julie, Rebecca and I were just the luckiest girls, living the Tango fairy tale dream with David, Jon and Clive as our knights in shining armour to protect and take care of us. You guys are wonderful, we had some great dances and it was a super evening. When's the next one?









The journey continues
Sueño el tango
Walk walk walk walk walk walk walk walk walk walk walk walk walk walk

Feelingpink
6th-April-2006, 10:53 PM
[QUOTE=CeeCee]...Our first LTFG was huge fun, what better way to spend an evening than in the company of lovely like-minded people. Julie, Rebecca and I were just the luckiest girls, living the Tango fairy tale dream with David, Jon and Clive as our knights in shining armour to protect and take care of us. You guys are wonderful, we had some great dances and it was a super evening. When's the next one? :yeah: Mango Tango combined with a Groundforce JonD garden makeover, did someone say?

Lynn
7th-April-2006, 10:20 AM
Tell us when you are coming and I'll be there.

Also with enough notice if you need accomodation we should be able to save on those costs by putting you up.Thanks. :hug:


When's the next one? :yeah: I will have to be in Bedfordshire with my new job sometime in the next few months, so will try include some extra days and stay on and come dancing!

And of course there is Southport...

Thanks CeeCee for that great description of the evening. :flower:

Am considering venturing to a milonga soon (to watch only as will be going by myself, though I will try to follow if asked to dance).

Clive Long
7th-April-2006, 12:26 PM
Finchley, 6 April - end of term 2

In some ways a bit of a damp squib. Low turn out (6)

Kicca is now rehearsing with Take That :eek: - so Tango has obviously peeked and will become last year's thing this year

We had 40 minutes of Tango psychology from KG - no walking :( . Javier looked really irritated by all the talk.

The talk of the Tao of Tango revealed some people a drawn to the music (Javier and Pam) and others are drawn to the movement (DJ and the Long one). KG believes it all must come from response to the music. He held out the promise that after months of dancing two or three times per week, concentrating on technique, we will individually reach epiphanies where we stop thinking about where to put our feet and just move to the music. Big it up for KG.

We did a bit on close embrace. Interesting the important point of contact as far as KG is concerned is where the parner "drapes" her left arm over the leader's right arm - this is on the "closed" side of the embrace. He was saying leading from the leader's left arm is very bad as it destroys the frame. Subtle stuff on leading from the chest without pushing the chest too far forward. KG is keen on "natural" postures and minimum effort while dancing Tango.

KG offered to run classes at Dome on Mondays for £3 per head :what: as long as he gets at least two couples . I have taken responsibility to organise the people.

And that was it.

No Kicca nor KG next term. Uncertainty by some as to whether they will go for term 3. As it is 5 minutes walk from my flat it is a no-brainer for me to sign up. DJ will continue. It will be different but we will accomodate the change.

Clive

foxylady
27th-April-2006, 03:35 PM
When's the next one?

Is there a LTFG outing to the dome next wednesday (May 3rd) ??? that I can join ????

JonD
27th-April-2006, 05:37 PM
Is there a LTFG outing to the dome next wednesday (May 3rd) ??? that I can join ????
Julie and I won't be in London on the 3rd but I think Clive, CeeCee, feelingpink and the elusive David James go quite regularly. It was really fun night!

I'm pondering dates for a visit to Negracha and Friday 12th May is looking favourite. 5th & 19th May are out due to prior commitments & 27th is the Friday before the Bank Holiday weekend so might be a low turnout. We could come up on Friday afternoon / early evening, dance until 3am and then enjoy bagels in Brick Lane until the trains start running to bring us back to civilisation (sorry, I mean Devon). Anyone else for a LTFG on the 12th?

Is Ivan of Negracha the Ivan who will be teaching AT at Southport? I can't find a surname on the Negracha site.

Clive Long
27th-April-2006, 06:34 PM
I can't find a surname on the Negracha site.
Tango teachers have their surnames surgically removed

Kicca
Hamza
Carolina
Leonardo
Fed
Bianca
Oktavian
....

Lynn
27th-April-2006, 06:49 PM
Is Ivan of Negracha the Ivan who will be teaching AT at Southport? Yes. I know this because he was the one I got the Negracha flier from at Scarborough. (Unless of course there are two Ivans at Negracha.)

Clive Long
27th-April-2006, 10:14 PM
All Change! Finchley April 27th

Slough gets bad press. Some deserved, some undeserved.

However, struggling to get home to North London after two gruelling days at work, faced with 20 minutes delays on top of a long journey doesn't leave one well disposed to the place.

Can I be ar$ed to go out tonight or should I just sit in my misery?

Go out! Go out!

The lovely (but unreliable) Kicca and KG have left us. We now have David and the cute Maria. I think DJ is pining.

So what did we do in our improvers' class? The basic 8 !!

DJ was most insulted. I was too tired to resist.

Some silliness about assigning numbers to each part of the step – a bit artificial. And then one revelation right at the end. You can chop the basic 8 up, and re-order the bits. Basic 8 is just backwards, forwards and side with an appallingly anticipated cross. By chopping and splicing you can fake dancing and make your follower really pay attention to your lead.

There was also something about leading to the cross then pivoting the follower ACW and stepping inside with one's left foot. Then finishing with side-step to the right.

I think DJ is still incensed but I'll go with the flow.

That's it.

Lynn
28th-April-2006, 08:58 AM
Some silliness about assigning numbers to each part of the step – a bit artificial. We did that in about week 3 of our beginners course. So step 5 for example is the cross.

And then one revelation right at the end. You can chop the basic 8 up, and re-order the bits. Basic 8 is just backwards, forwards and side with an appallingly anticipated cross. By chopping and splicing you can fake dancing and make your follower really pay attention to your lead. Again this is something our teacher told us every week when we went over the basic 8. She showed us different things to do at various stages and encouraged the leaders to vary what they were doing. The basic 8 seems to be widely taught but I don't mind too much if its taught that way - as a tool for teaching different steps and as a framework for leaders to start from eg - he can lead to step 5 then do ochos instead.

Clive Long
28th-April-2006, 12:44 PM
Again this is something our teacher told us every week when we went over the basic 8. She showed us different things to do at various stages and encouraged the leaders to vary what they were doing. The basic 8 seems to be widely taught but I don't mind too much if its taught that way - as a tool for teaching different steps and as a framework for leaders to start from eg - he can lead to step 5 then do ochos instead.
Well ... it is a little bit contrived.

For example, 7 is man side-step to right and 8 is the collect.
Similarly 2 is side-step to left and 3 is collect and step forward with right

But you can't do: 7,7 or 2,2
You have to chuck in a collect
7,collect,7 (which is strictly 7,8,7)
or
2,collect,2

but the important thing is I got the idea of reusing the atoms, forward, back, side, pivot in different order to create something less than routine. This meant my connection had to be good for my partner to follow. So the exercise has gone up in my opinion.

CRL

Lynn
28th-April-2006, 12:58 PM
Well ... it is a little bit contrived.It is. Our teacher did say before she taught it, that its rarely used in social dancing, but not sure how much of that sunk in... but for our guys its given them somewhere to start and hopefully something to build on. And hopefully that means they will keep coming back. (New class starts next week! :D )

JonD
28th-April-2006, 04:22 PM
Well ... it is a little bit contrived.
Sounds horribly complicated to me! I'd never remember the steps by numbers - side step, outside step right etc. seems so much easier. Still, I think it's a good idea because it gets people away from dancing the 8 count basic as a "given".

LTFG Alert! I've just booked train tickets to come up to Negracha on Friday 12th May. Julie and I are scheduled to get into Paddington at 7.05pm so we should be at Negracha by 8pm without any problem. From what Clive says, there's a few eateries around the area so we should be able to get some sustenance during the night and have somewhere to sit and eat bagels after Negracha closes at 3am (we're going to get the 7.35am train back to Exeter on Saturday morning). Is anyone else going along that night? It'd be great to meet up again.

Lynn
28th-April-2006, 04:33 PM
LTFG Alert! I've just booked train tickets to come up to Negracha on Friday 12th May. Julie and I are scheduled to get into Paddington at 7.05pm so we should be at Negracha by 8pm without any problem. From what Clive says, there's a few eateries around the area so we should be able to get some sustenance during the night and have somewhere to sit and eat bagels after Negracha closes at 3am (we're going to get the 7.35am train back to Exeter on Saturday morning). Is anyone else going along that night? It'd be great to meet up again.I'll be going to Spain that Sunday, so no... its also the BFG that weekend so you can have an alternative FG!

But I'd love to do a LTFG at Negracha, esp after I've been in work a while and might be able to go a bit earlier on a Fri.

JonD
28th-April-2006, 04:55 PM
I'll be going to Spain that Sunday, so noLucky beast! (But then we'll miss you at the Tango al Fresco thing in late July because we'll be coming back from Tango Valley).


But I'd love to do a LTFG at Negracha, esp after I've been in work a while
Great! If our "work all day, dance all night, come home and collapse" plan proves survivable then Julie and I will try and come up more frequently. So, if you can let us know when you are coming over we'll make every effort to be there.

Don't forget there's a Tango Mango in August and another in October.

Lynn
29th-April-2006, 01:28 PM
Lucky beast! :waycool:
Esp as one of my very fav DJs will be there.:D Really looking forward to it!

Great! If our "work all day, dance all night, come home and collapse" plan proves survivable then Julie and I will try and come up more frequently. So, if you can let us know when you are coming over we'll make every effort to be there.Once I'm settled into my new job, (and have a bit more finances), I can take a 1/2 day on a Fri, jump on a cheap flight and join up with everyone. (Though ideally I'd stay all weekend, finish with a T-jive and catch a train and flight home on Sun night.)

Clive Long
1st-May-2006, 02:51 PM
Hannes and Amy Ballroom and Latin classes in Chiswick

Anyone know if this is still on?

When?

Clive Long
2nd-May-2006, 02:51 PM
Hannes and Amy Ballroom and Latin classes in Chiswick

Anyone know if this is still on?

When?
Google and thou shalt find grasshopper.

http://www.hannesamy.com/

Puddy Tat
4th-May-2006, 11:52 AM
Have just plucked up the courage to make my first visit to Tango at The Dome. :clap: :clap:

Thank you to the lovely familiar faces who made me feel so welcome and gave me the chance to practice.

There were some inspirational dancers there so lots to work towards and I can see I'm going to be spending a lot more time in Tango classes.

I loved the experience and will definitely be back.

See you all soon.

xx

JonD
4th-May-2006, 02:09 PM
I'm going to be spending a lot more time in Tango classesExcellent! Another addict ......

Hi Puddy Tat, I'm glad you had such a good time. Like you, Julie and I really enjoyed our trip to The Dome and a large part of that enjoyment stemmed from the welcoming, friendly and fun people we met up with.


See you all soon.
Negracha on Friday 12th?

CeeCee
4th-May-2006, 08:57 PM
Zero Hour, The Dome, Dartmouth Park Hill, Tuffnell Park, London
Wednesday 3rd May 2006
Classes 7.30-9.00 Beginners and Intermediate, parallel classes
Milonga 9.00 til late

Intermediate class:-
1. Direction of Intention
Using shoulders, upper body and not arms, the leader indicates the direction so the follower can read his intention.
2. Boleos
Exercises, leg flicking, leg swinging, leg hooking, in singles, doubles and triples with pivots and turns.
Challenging.

Class of 20 men and 30 women, were there too many women or not enough men? (Is the glass is half full or half empty?)
I guess it’s a question of perception.
Spare women took turns to lead each other. After a few minutes of transferring my partner’s weight to initiate the first step and basic steps I was seriously stressed.
Once again the leaders have my complete admiration because leading is a tricky business.
I’m grateful that you gentlemen lead, I’ll stick to following.

More news on the aquamarine high-heeled creations.
Had a chat with a lady last night who was also at Corrientes on Saturday and she too was in awe of the 4 inch wonders. She told me the shoes came from Comme if Faut (http://www.close-embrace.com/tangoshoes.html)where they are described as "Manolo Blahniks of tango footwear".
The website surprisingly says "Due to the manufacturer's request we cannot show pictures of the shoes on this site or in a brochure."
Now that’s seriously exclusive.
Who buys shoes without even seeing a picture? .....................................Lynn?

Lovely to see Puddy Tat last night and it was a pleasure to have David and Clive to take care of us and lead us around the floor. The Milonga was busy with lots of amazing dancers to watch and admire again. We had some super dances and last night the experienced dancers didn’t feel like they were huge lorries approaching at speed as we negotiated our way around in the slow lane. They can be intimidating but hey, they must have been beginners once and we are definitely improving.

I still haven’t recovered from the shock that Puddy Tat is a Forum Tanguera who didn’t know about our North London and Learning Tango threads. So, which is more daunting my dear, your first milonga at the Dome or the thought of reading these threads from the beginning?
Welcome to our journey and how about posting a review of your class last night?











The journey continues…

Clive Long
4th-May-2006, 10:05 PM
<< Snip >>
Negracha on Friday 12th?
It's in the diary.

But after an hour of pivots tonight I was exhausted - so 3am finish seems a bit of a "reach". :sick: We will do our best :waycool:

CRL

foxylady
4th-May-2006, 10:08 PM
snip aussi

Negracha on Friday 12th?

Not possible for me as I'm at the BFG in sunny (I hope) glasgow, but I am planning on being at the dome next weds, family emergencies permitting, and hope for some fellow tangueros company....

Clive Long
4th-May-2006, 10:21 PM
Not possible for me as I'm at the BFG in sunny (I hope) glasgow, but I am planning on being at the dome next weds, family emergencies permitting, and hope for some fellow tangueros company....
May10 - another date for the diary.

Fill your boots with Tango

7,7,1,4,8,2,1,2,5,3,6,3,8 repeat, repeat I'm getting there.

Clive Long
6th-May-2006, 10:27 AM
Thursday 4 May, Finchley

From "Our own correspondent" based somewhere in NorthLondon



I enjoyed it last night - much more so than last week. We seem to be settling in a bit more smoothly, both students and teachers. It's still a bit too much like a Spanish class at times, with Maria's English sometimes a little wobbly, and the half of the class that doesn't speak Spanish are at a bit of a disadvantage. But most of us now know enough to understand what she's getting at.

(Apparently Missy D is reported to be doing the previous class, but I think this is an urban myth, I've not seen her yet)

So, we covered pivots, focussing on weight transfer and leading from the chest. I still haven't got all the "arms forward / shoulders out / belly in" combination of posture and frame, but I'm now at least slightly more aware of when I'm doing it wrong...

We then went on to ochos, and then a lovely little sandwich move with a twisty-cross-thingy at the end.

The class is still suffering from "pattern-itis" a bit - ie. my partners were anticipating crosses when I didn't lead them, and not reacting to crosses when I did. OK, the latter is certainly largely my fault for not leading well, but I can't take too much blame for the former - I'm very good at not leading crosses

Good numbers too - 8 people, 4 men and 4 women, so as long as no-one drops out we should be fine.

Lory
6th-May-2006, 12:09 PM
I'm very good at not leading crosses

:worthy: :rofl:

Lory
7th-May-2006, 10:23 PM
On Friday, Kev and I were lucky enough to be invited to a Tango display and T dance at Harrods and I have to say, it was absolutely superb! :waycool:

It was just like being transported back to a bygone age. The setting was the Georgian restaurant, which is beautiful. The ladies were elegantly dressed in pretty dresses and the men looked very dapper, some even sported elaborate, ill fitting toupee's :D and once i'd pointed a couple out to Kev, we spent a fun afternoon playing spot the rug!:rofl:

The performers were Ivan Arandia and partner, Jukka (who generously displayed his chiselled chest for the ladies to drool over:drool: ) and Sirpa (Latin Champions) and Monica and Omar - Los Ocampo from Tango Passion (the couple who I wrote about earlier in one of the Tango threads) all of whom were awesome. :worthy:

My personal favourite bits were when the two men danced together and believe me, there was NOTHING poofy about this show :devil: and when Jukka and Sirpa did a Rumba.:yum:

There was also open ballroom and tango dancing for guests in between the performances, so we had a go. :clap:

The music was by a tango quintet called Los Mareados and they were fabulous, coincidentally, i'd recently made a CD of all my favourite Tango tracks and amazingly, they played 6 off of my CD, how did they know what I liked :confused:

Here's a few photo's...

Clive Long
8th-May-2006, 04:56 PM
Question: What Ballroom & Latin classes are available in North London on Wednesday, Thursday or Friday?

Hi, a friend of mine wants to take up ballroom and Latin again. She has specified the lessons as being "Blue Rinse free".

She lives in Mill Hill so North West London to Central London are best locations for her.

Clive

Feelingpink
8th-May-2006, 11:15 PM
WE MISS CEE CEE

Lost in walking traffic, I understand that the lovely CeeCee had to do a 180 degree pivot and head home when north/west London traffic all became too much. We missed you lots. :hug: The really killing thing is that there was a woman there with the most amazing shoes - high and spikey in a kind of shiney bronze - with beautiful ankles - I wanted you to see them too! Next week?

Tonight was the first time that I really enjoyed all the dancing with all of my partners (although people who drink beforehand should realise how much it makes their breath smell). :sick: It was lovely to feel the differences between each partner and even managed to pick up a cross from DJ (after a little instruction) without thinking about it :drool: so please don't ask me what the lead is because I don't consciously know. It's also given me enough confidence to rock up to Friday night's Negrancha with JonD and Julie.

frodo
9th-May-2006, 12:40 AM
Question: What Ballroom & Latin classes are available in North London on Wednesday, Thursday or Friday?

Hi, a friend of mine wants to take up ballroom and Latin again. She has specified the lessons as being "Blue Rinse free".

She lives in Mill Hill so North West London to Central London are best locations for her.

Clive
"Blue Rinse Free" - that sounds hard - I'm guess she means "Sequence Free".

Definitely to be desired, but a zero sequence requirement probably narrows the options quite a bit.

For example this http://www.dancingclubla.com one, as I recall do ( or did ) some sequence but not enough to be annoying.

You've probably seen the Kentish Town class with Anton, Ballroom Queen posted about.

Clive Long
9th-May-2006, 09:34 AM
"Blue Rinse Free" - that sounds hard - I'm guess she means "Sequence Free".

Definitely to be desired, but a zero sequence requirement probably narrows the options quite a bit.

For example this http://www.dancingclubla.com one, as I recall do ( or did ) some sequence but not enough to be annoying.

You've probably seen the Kentish Town class with Anton, Ballroom Queen posted about.
Thanks for the leads. I have passed them on. I have been past Expressions on occassion and it looks a good venue. Maybe I could do alternate Weds at Ballroom and Tango. I wonder if I might find someone to dance with at the lessons?

Clive

Clive Long
9th-May-2006, 10:06 AM
Tufnell Park Dome, Monday 8 May

KG “Master” Class (well, consolidation reeeaaally)

Good turn out last night. Let me see: 1, 2, 3, …. 8 people, and men over !!. DavidJames kept us updated with 15 minutes bulletins from CeeCee’s car in West London as it failed to make any progress to North London. We missed you CeeCee.

Basically KG is almost giving us his time. He isn’t a “qualified” Tango teacher but I trust what he says and I like his emphasis on posture and movement. KG doesn’t like “lead from the chest”. He advocates lead from the “centre”. He does agree the dancers’ torsoes should, as far as possible remain aligned throughout the dance. With KG’s style of dance you don’t get that “toppling forward” effect you see with some dancers.

I danced with DJ and Robin (whose wife is an amazingly creative dancer).

WE MISS CEE CEE
<< snip >>
Tonight was the first time that I really enjoyed all the dancing with all of my partners (although people who drink beforehand should realise how much it makes their breath smell). :sick:
<< snip >>


Yep. No alcohol before close partner dancing guys, please (wasn't DJ by the way).

I feel, KG gets a little frustrated at how slowly we pick things up. He keeps asking me after if his teaching is at fault or he is teaching the wrong things. I just say we have as much responsibility as him to consolidate the teaching.

So what did we do? Exercise on finding axis, titling the pelvis and establishing a strong core. Experimenting on where to place one’s weight on one’s feet. Just walking with a partner and sensing when they started and stopped. I find my partners don’t step back from the hip, they bend the knee – which often results in me kicking the woman as I step forward. Different leads into an ocho. For some reason I found this very tricky. I kept pushing my partner off-axis. The lead into forward ocho was: step back on right, bring partner forward in straight line couple of steps, pivot her CW 90 then one was away. Next the leader lead “half” a forward ocho and effectively “moved” (not stepped) behind the follower, pivoted her, as if into the completion of the ocho, then moved on. The idea was to use pivot to change line of dance. I kept asking KG where I needed to put my feet. He kept on saying to forget about my feet and think where I wanted my centre to move to.

When I was following I closed my eyes and did sense the “space” being created by the leader that I had to occupy. I quite liked being lead into an ocho.

After the lesson we had chance to practice. Say, 10 other couples turned up just to practice. Good chance to :drool: over ankles and shoes.

Anyone who wants to come next Monday at 7:30pm is very welcome but you need to have had some exposure to the basics of walk and pivot to get anything out of the class.

These sessions should run through May then Kicca will be back teaching her Monday class.

CRL

Rhythm King
9th-May-2006, 10:22 AM
So, given the title of the thread, has anyone tried the ballroom and latin classes at Expressions yet?

Clive Long
9th-May-2006, 10:54 AM
So, given the title of the thread, has anyone tried the ballroom and latin classes at Expressions yet?
See here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=229146#post229146)

CeeCee
10th-May-2006, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by Lory
It was just like being transported back to a bygone age.
Oooh Lory, thank you so much for sharing this experience with us, it sounds amazing, the hats, the suits, the dresses, the flowers, the lights, the floor, the event looks wonderful, thanks for the the pictures too, they're super, well done. Can I come to the next one?



Originally posted by Clive Long
We missed you CeeCee.


Originally posted by Feelingpink
WE MISS CEE CEE

Lost in walking traffic…

Aww guys, what can I say? You are really too kind and there was me thinking noone would notice my absence. Monday night I discovered that determination alone isn’t enough to beat London traffic and after two and a half hours of sitting and waiting I was still only about 5 miles from home.

Hopefully the Traffic Gods will take pity on me next week so that I can enjoy the class and see the bronze, spikey, shiny shoes! Now then FP, they sound like a pair that a lady bought at the Dome last Wednesday (yes they sell yummy shoes at the venue), were they open toed, T-bar, sling backs too?

Great to read your summary CL, as ever, you have such a good memory for detail. Glad to hear that there was a good turnout and it sounds like I missed a great class.







the journey (sometimes) continues...

foxylady
10th-May-2006, 09:21 PM
Noticed the other day that 'The Factory' in Hornsey Lane is starting ballroom classes on a weds. Beginners 7-8, and intermediate 8-9 (I think)... Teacher is someone called Stephen Thomas - I haven't heard of him but he is apparently a current competitor on the ballrooom circuit .......

Foxy

Clive Long
10th-May-2006, 09:31 PM
Noticed the other day that 'The Factory' in Hornsey Lane is starting ballroom classes on a weds. Beginners 7-8, and intermediate 8-9 (I think)... Teacher is someone called Stephen Thomas - I haven't heard of him but he is apparently a current competitor on the ballrooom circuit .......

Foxy
Thanks Tess

I'll pass it on.

Clive

Puddy Tat
12th-May-2006, 08:57 PM
Lovely to see Puddy Tat last night and it was a pleasure to have David and Clive to take care of us and lead us around the floor. The Milonga was busy with lots of amazing dancers to watch and admire again. We had some super dances and last night the experienced dancers didn’t feel like they were huge lorries approaching at speed as we negotiated our way around in the slow lane. They can be intimidating but hey, they must have been beginners once and we are definitely improving.

I still haven’t recovered from the shock that Puddy Tat is a Forum Tanguera who didn’t know about our North London and Learning Tango threads. So, which is more daunting my dear, your first milonga at the Dome or the thought of reading these threads from the beginning?
Welcome to our journey and how about posting a review of your class last night?



Well, I think reading all these posts is far more daunting :eek: than my first Milonga, so I have to confess I've read a few and skipped the rest! :innocent:

My computer has been playing up and I've tried on three occasions to post a review of my first class at The Dome :( and this will be last attempt! I'm not very good at this type of thing, but here goes!

Although I've done a few Tango classes now and had a couple of private lessons, I decided to join the beginners class as every dance venue in each different style of dance I've ever attended has its own way of teaching.

There was an even mix of leaders and followers, which made a nice change and a whole range of abilities from someone who was attending their first ever dance class in anything to someone who had been attending Tango classes for over a year.

We started the class with a lot of walking, both backwards and forwards, on our own and with a partner, in practice hold, with followers placing their hands on leaders' collarbones and in open embrace to explore the connection between leader and follower. We then went on to trying to maintain our frame whilst changing direction on the dance floor and when executing ochos and heros.

The standard of teaching was very good and everyone received some level of personal attention depending on their ability.

I enjoyed the class so will definitely be back for more but sadly not until 24 May, as other commitments will keep me away until then.

I'll look forward to seeing you all again soon and thank you again for your welcoming smiles. :respect:

:kiss:

JonD
15th-May-2006, 07:17 AM
Negracha is great! I've never been to a more friendly AT venue. Everyone was really welcoming and full of smiles from the moment we arrived until we left at 3am. The music was good upstairs and we danced to some really challenging eTango stuff downstairs. Floorcraft was, on the whole, very good and the standard of dancing was a delight to watch.

Julie and I got there in time for the lesson and were so glad that we did - it was on Colgadas and I finally began to see the light. The lessons was taught really well (although they didn't move the few "extra ladies" on fast enough). It was a case of being shown an exercise or element of a move and then being given a good chunk of time to practice it with your partner while Ivan and the excellent female teacher - whose name I have forgotten - came round, watched you and made suggestions. Excellent.

Clive and Feelingpink came along and it was really lovely to see them. Fernando, who used to teach AT in Devon, was there as well so we caught up with him. In fact, the whole night was just great fun. The class, the company, the dancing, the excellent pasta Julie and I had at Strada - a really good time.

We left Negracha at about 3.15am and meandered slowly back to Paddington, spending an hour or so in an all-night cafe near Centrepoint on the way. We got back to the station at around 6.15am, spent an hour watching the West Ham fans gathering before they travelled to Cardiff for the FA Cup Final and then got our train at 7.35am. We finally got back to Julie's at about 11.45am having stopped at a transport cafe for a "fat boys' breakfast" on our way from Exeter station. And then we slept and slept and slept! (Next time we'll try to get an earlier train - it wouldn't have been so much fun walking back in the rain or hanging about at Paddington in the cold).

We'll be doing it again soon!

frodo
16th-May-2006, 11:03 PM
We left Negracha at about 3.15am and meandered slowly back to Paddington, spending an hour or so in an all-night cafe near Centrepoint on the way. We got back to the station at around 6.15am, spent an hour watching the West Ham fans gathering before they travelled to Cardiff for the FA Cup Final and then got our train at 7.35am. We finally got back to Julie's at about 11.45am having stopped at a transport cafe for a "fat boys' breakfast" on our way from Exeter station. And then we slept and slept and slept! (Next time we'll try to get an earlier train - it wouldn't have been so much fun walking back in the rain or hanging about at Paddington in the cold).

We'll be doing it again soon!
:respect:

I guess that's one way to get around the reductions in late trains. Just need 3am to become a standard finish time.

Clive Long
19th-May-2006, 09:17 PM
We started off with a couple of dances (I got Marie The Teacher for two
dances, yum!), then they placed a set of chairs in the inside of the
room, creating a circular corridor for us to dance around. We practised
some of the "rotation" moves we were taught last week, with the idea of
getting comfortable with a progressive dance and a Milonga situation -
speeding up, slowing down, turning around corners, that sort of thing.

It was very useful - although even with only 4 couples, we found
ourselves bunching up or crashing into each other, so clearly we all
need work on this area.

Lots of posture and style advice was dispensed on an individual basis -
in some ways this was more like a practica session than a structured
class, in that we weren't taught any more moves. It worked very well I
think, as we're probably all now at the point where we need to work on
trying out this dancing stuff For Real.

Just because you can't see him doesn't mean he's not here.

ducasi
20th-May-2006, 07:40 AM
Just because you can't see him doesn't mean he's not here.
Can I just give a :rolleyes: to people who have stopped posting on the forum, but get other people to post for them? :rolleyes: