Dancing with beginners

[Ronde!]

Are there any other intermediates out there that actively try to dance with the new beginners? I really enjoy helping people get over that initial worry that they "can't do this" -- there's a real rush from seeing a newbie grin as you recombine their six known moves into their first freestyle dance.

I remember when I started a couple of the ladies helped me this way. I stepped on their toes, I crashed into them, twisted their arms and was constantly apologising, and they somehow tolerated me (and of course, now they're among my very bestest friends!)

[TheTramp]

I like dancing with beginners. Not all the time admittedly, but I certainly ask some at times. And I'd never turn anyone down based purely on their dancing ability (unless there's a pain factor involved here).

Wouldn't be much of a teacher if I didn't like working with beginners, would I :D

Steve

[Sandy]

Originally posted by Ronde!
Are there any other intermediates out there that actively try to dance with the new beginners?


Hi there

I do dance with beginners but not often enough. It isn't deliberate but usually it is very busy and before you know it the night is over and you haven't asked anyone new to dance and as beginners feel a bit nervous about asking intermediates I don't get asked that often (am I scary??). It is always nice to dance with new people anyway and I have vivid memories of being a beginner so know how scary it is and how important it is to dance with nice, friendly, helpful intermediate dancers.

Definitely going to make a point of dancing with more beginners.

Sandy :cheers:

[Beowulf]

I've noticed in My class that there's a lot a intermediate to advanced dancers who gladly take up beginner females for a dance.

However as a male beginner (and a poor one at that) I do not feel confident in (a) Asking a more experienced woman :drool: up to dance or (b) Leading her if I did!

I have noticed however that a lot of experienced female dancers seem to pick out the more experienced male dancers. I can't say I blame them, as the male leads the dance a female beginner can join in even if she doesn't know the moves and learn perhaps something new. What's an experienced female dancer going to get from me (apart from sore feet?) She might get bored of my extensive repertoire of..erm.. 5 1/2 moves! :sad:

I'm just to darn shy to ask anyone up! Watching dancing just isn't the same :tears:

[Chicklet]

I'm hardly "experienced" but am always flattered and pleased if (just about) ANY man asks me to dance.

But it can be difficult, this has been discussed elsewhere but I'll comment cos I have an example to relate from last night.

A chap asked me to dance and I know he has only been dancing for a couple of months. He rarely smiles at the best of times and says very little, which makes it all the more difficult when my instinct is to interact and encourage and "help" if there is something I can point out or suggest etc.

anyway...this guy kept grabbing my LEFT hand and trying to put me into moves that are ~normally~ led by the right and so I was all over the place over balancing and not turning well etc
Once I figured out what he was doing I tried to keep my left hand behind my back and present the right with a smile and a flourish but I'm sure he thought I was useless!!!

So what's a girl to do with a guy like that?

This is probably going to be the wrong place to ask (unless teachers can advise) because the guys who are going to post on here are all likely to be the ones who would LIKE the guidance on the night if they did something like that "wrongly" and would take it in and probably not make the mistake again but with someone who seemed so uncommunicative I felt like I just had to grin and bear it.

I suppose for you B1970 it's going to be a case of suck it and see, I'm SURE you will find friendly experienced women who are delighted to dance your 5 1/2 moves and would be equally delighted to suggest and teach another or a variation to help you along, especially if you are as enthusiastic as you seem to be because at the end of the day (or year maybe) today's beginner is tomorrows BTC!!! and we would all do well to remember that!

Yes, I would have to be honest and say I do like to choose to dance with good guys, so I can learn and improve and be challenged by a variety of moves (G-man, I WILL get that sit thing next time!!!!) and because I personally will dance much better feeding off the good lead. So in summary, it's like so many other things in life and it's all about getting the balance right IMHO.

Cx

[Chicklet]

just thought of another thing - if you feel shy at freestyle time, keep talking to the women during the class, I'm sure you will be able to tell by the way they respond and or smile and act friendly if you would like to dance with them so why not say there and then, would you try this again with me later?

If things go well for you with some women during the class, tell them! It's an old one but flattery will probably get you quite a long way!!!

And hopefully it will do your confidence about asking the world of good if you have a couple "lined up" before the freestyle starts!

C

[Beowulf]

Chicklet. Thanks for that. I should "Suck-it-and-see" as you say but I'm a real wall-flower :sorry

I do have to ask though... you say


today's beginner is tomorrows BTC!

What's a BTC??

Bloody Terrific Ceroc'er?

TLA's!! Scourge of the Internet Generation!
:grin:

[CJ]

BTC: as covered in lots of threads is better than chocolate. It refers to Bill's dark smouldering smooth dancing skills. Not unlike a good bit of Green and Black's, I'm told.

I hate to say this, but Chickie is right. Granted, you feel shy. BUT, it's your call. You can stay shy, and not improve. OR you can bite the bullet, ask some girls to dance (WHO WERE BEGINNERS ONCE, TOO) and improve no end.

Every guy on this forum, who isn't still a beginner was once. And that said, even the intermediates/advanced are still learning.

Yes, it is difficult having the confidence to, basically, ask someone if they would like to spend the nect 3 minutes repeating the same 5 1/2 moves in an improving manner but we've ALL done it.

Please believe me when I say the benefits COMPLETELY outweigh the current discomfort.

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Ceroc Jock
BTC: Not unlike a good bit of Green and Black's, I'm told

Wow !! He must be good.. the best I could hope for in my wildest dreams is Lindt 70% .. I'll be lucky if I get to Cadbury bournville though!

But Green and Blacks Orgasmic.. sorry.. Organic chocolate ! :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

[Graham]

Originally posted by Ceroc Jock
Yes, it is difficult having the confidence to, basically, ask someone if they would like to spend the nect 3 minutes repeating the same 5 1/2 moves in an improving manner but we've ALL done it. Hate to be pedantic ( :wink: :rofl: ), but if you performed 5 1/2 moves, you wouldn't be in a position to repeat, unless the 1/2 move got you to the same hold that the first move started on, in which case it would be a valid move in its own right anyway, making 6 moves. :grin:

Anyway, CJ and Chicklet have given you the advice you need, and I can only add that the way you feel is very common, but the vast majority of good female dancers will be very understanding (but don't ask them lots of times on the same night).

If anyone encounters the problem Chicklet did, you could always point out that something didn't quite feel right, and ask if he'd mind going and asking a taxi or teacher so you could find out what you (not him) were doing wrong. Of course, having got him there, the taxi/teacher will correct whatever either of you is doing wrong.

[CJ]

Originally posted by Graham
Hate to be pedantic ( :wink: :rofl: ), but if you performed 5 1/2 moves, you wouldn't be in a position to repeat, .

Graham, there is nothing worse than an inaccurate pedant.

Of course you can repeat: whether you can segue your 5 1/2 moves together in time to the music, particularly as a beginner, is a completely different matter and, no, I don't think this is achievable.

All of which brings me to the question: is the travelling return a move in it's own right??

:cheers:

[Graham]

Originally posted by Ceroc Jock
Of course you can repeat: whether you can segue your 5 1/2 moves together in time to the music, particularly as a beginner, is a completely different matter and, no, I don't think this is achievable. Good point. I was forgetting not everyone found this an essential requirement.

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Ceroc Jock
Of course you can repeat: whether you can segue your 5 1/2 moves together in time to the music, particularly as a beginner, is a completely different matter and, no, I don't think this is achievable.
But surley it depends on how many beats each move is over? if the half move is over 4/6/8... beats, then you could easily repeat and keep time.

All of which brings me to the question: is the travelling return a move in it's own right??
dam straight it is! If a comb and a short comb are classed as different moves, then a return, traveling return (swapping places), traveling return (keeping parallell) and traveling return (while moving around the lady) should all be different moves. :cool:

[Sandy]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
Chicklet. Thanks for that. I should "Suck-it-and-see" as you say but I'm a real wall-flower :sorry


OK Beowulf, let's have a dance:grin: Don't know who you are but I see you come under "Aberdeen" so if you go to the Tuesday class at Peterculter ask for Sandy and let's go dance! Can't promise BTC but will do my best!:wink:

Sandy:cheers:

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Sandy
Don't know who you are but I see you come under "Aberdeen"

I do indeed, and Tuesday Night Peterculter is my venue. What do I look like? erm.. if you know Gadget, then just look for the guy who looks like him! That'll be me. Am often mistaken for his brother. Suppose it's better than being mistaken for him! :wink:

Sorry, Gadge. I'm sure the converse applies too! :grin:

Doesn't matter if you're not BTC.. as long as you're BTP (Better than Pete) That's great!

Best Regards


Pete. (I wasn't christened Beowulf.. unlike Gadget! :wink: )

[Beowulf]

Or someone who looks kinda like this!

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Sandy
Don't know who you are ...
...as above, but he missed out the ugly shirts :wink:

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
Or someone who looks kinda like this!

hang on that IS Gadget. whats going on ?! :)

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Gadget
...as above, but he missed out the ugly shirts :wink:

Ah! Yes, that's easier.. just look for the loudest shirt.. That'll be me! :waycool:

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
hang on that IS Gadget. whats going on ?! :)

Truth Be known, we're actually the result of a genetic experiment gone hideously wrong. We're actually two halves of the same person!

I'm Good :innocent: and Gadget... well, you've seen his sig!:devil:

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
I'm Good :innocent: and Gadget... well, you've seen his sig!:devil:
I'm good at being bad :devil:

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Gadget
I'm good at being bad :devil:

And Vice Versa (Vice.. being the operative word there!)

[Sandy]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
And Vice Versa (Vice.. being the operative word there!)

Very intriguing! Roll on Tuesday:wink:

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Chicklet
keep talking to the women during the class,
Good advice, but it can be hard to keep up interesting conversation while you're trying to sort out in your head how that new move goes, but managing a smile during the lesson must help (I think?)

I was a trifle surprised to get a refusal from a beginner the other day, even after the flattery that "I'd noticed during the lesson that you obviously had talent", (and no, this isn't a "line", I've never used it before, it was true). Her explanation for the refusal was that she "wasn't good enough". I'm waiting for the opportunity to prove her wrong.

Asking strangers to dance does get easier as your confidence grows, but even after many years dancing, there are still women I'm intimidated by. This is more down to their attitude than dance ability.

It can help to have a partner of similar standard where you can practice stuff together, it can help both of you gain confidence. but don't get too hooked up on this, as it can also lead to you perpetuating mistakes if you don't dance with others enough. I think this has been discussed elswhere recently).

Greg

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Sheepman
It can help to have a partner of similar standard where you can practice stuff together, it can help both of you gain confidence. but don't get too hooked up on this, as it can also lead to you perpetuating mistakes if you don't dance with others enough.

My partner and I are of similar level and I feel quite confident in dancing with her but as you say I have noticed times where She'll say I'm doing something wrong but can't remember what the right way should be or I think she's done something wrong but am not sure as I may have misled her.

Don't want to learn / pass-on bad habits this early in the game!

But, come Tuesday I'll swallow the Red pill (or was it the Blue one?) and take the plunge. Just keep thinking in my head "What would Gadget do in this situation?".. Wait, no that's a bad idea.. I'm getting some VERY funny ideas now! <g>

[Sheepman]

So Tuesday has been and gone, did you take the right pill, and take the plunge? Were your worst fears realised?

Greg

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Sheepman
So Tuesday has been and gone, did you take the right pill, and take the plunge? Were your worst fears realised?
naaaa - he took the yellow pill, claiming melting point was close and wanted to go sit in a cave watching images of latex clad lovlies doing high kicks. :wink: (...although how that reduces temperature...:innocent: )

just as well really - his services were required elsewhere :rolleyes:

[Sandy]

Originally posted by Sandy
Very intriguing! Roll on Tuesday:wink:

yeh, where were you BW?? It was a no show, did I scare you off with my offer of a dance???:devil:

Sandy :cheers:

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Sandy
yeh, where were you BW?? It was a no show, did I scare you off with my offer of a dance???:devil:
My fault - I couldn't make it and Beo would catch a lift with me.

{Instead of dancing I was painting a crest on a sheild for a two year-old to go to 'The Singing Kettle' with. Not even my kid. And not even the origional reason for my absence in the first place. Don't you just hate it when this "life" stuff gets in the way of dancing? :D }

[Sandy]

Originally posted by Gadget
Don't you just hate it when this "life" stuff gets in the way of dancing? :D }

Oh definitely! sounds like you made someone very happy though. Catch you sometime:nice:

Sandy:cheers:

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Sandy
yeh, where were you BW?? It was a no show, did I scare you off with my offer of a dance???:devil:

Hi Sandy.. No fear of that. was looking forward to dancing with you.. Unfortunately life outside of ceroc is imposing on me a bit and it's looking increasingly like I will be unable to go dancing every Tuesday :tears: :( I may still manage to squeeze in an odd dance (by that I mean occasional .. not weird!) every now and again. Sorry..

Now , If I could only clone myself then I might find time to Dance, Work and Do my Web Stuff! Perhaps cloning is a bad idea .. .. my last attempt created a monster (looks towards Gadget! :wink: :D )

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
I may still manage to squeeze in an odd dance (by that I mean occasional .. not weird!) every now and again. Sorry..
Naaa - you were right the first time - weird :wink: :D

Now , If I could only clone myself then I might find time to Dance, Work and Do my Web Stuff! Perhaps cloning is a bad idea .. .. my last attempt created a monster (looks towards Gadget! :wink: :D )
perhaps you shouldn't...that means someone else (well, someone the same actually) would have all the experiance you should have - Time travel?

[Minnie M]

What we must remember is that we were all beginners once !

[Gus]

Originally posted by Minnie M
What we must remember is that we were all beginners once !

And??:devil:

[Minnie M]

Hi Gus, I didn't think I needed to further that comment.........

I remember when I first started, I found everyone very intimidating and was thrilled to bits when a experienced dancer asked me to dance. That is why I never refuse a beginner, and always ask at least 2 or 3 beginners at every dance.

Mind you I still get some beginners say "Well done" after the dance:) (puts a smile on my face) I say, thank you (very politely)

[Gus]

Originally posted by Minnie M
Hi Gus, I didn't think I needed to further that comment.........Sorry Minnie ... was being obtuse..

Yup ... its sometimes good to remeber just how daunting taking up Modern Jive can be. I've got no problem dancing with beginners, at least they tend to listen. I DO have a problem dancing with intermediates who WONT listen who have grips like a vice!:tears:

[Minnie M]

Andy Mc (I think it was him) had onced analysed the 4 (or was it 5) stages of the dancer - if you are reading this Andy, do you remember what they were (I thought it was very clever, and very true)

[Neil]

Originally posted by Minnie M
Andy Mc (I think it was him) had onced analysed the 4 (or was it 5) stages of the dancer - if you are reading this Andy, do you remember what they were (I thought it was very clever, and very true) This is what Andy wrote in http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=27447 :


Beginner - Knows nothing, does beginners moves badly, dances with anyone
Intermediate - Knows a lot of moves does advanced moved badly, dances with intermediates
Hotshot Dancer - Knows everything, only does advanced moves, too good to dance with anyone
Great Dancer - Would like to know more, does beginners moves brilliantly, dances with everyone, especially beginners.
:rofl:

[Minnie M]

Wow Neil - I'm impressed - didn't know Andy had posted it on the forum. (I only joined the forum this month)

It's true though - don't you agree !

I think we all (well most of us) go through those stages even if we don't admit to it - (wonder if The Tramp agrees)

Just had a look at your link to Andy's quote - I am very confused now - not sure which thread I am on - there is lots of cross-overs - I had to get to my 20 posts quickly to display my personal Avatar - so I moved around quite a bit - but maybe this comment should not be here
:confused:

[Neil]

Originally posted by Minnie M
It's true though - don't you agree ! Yes, definitely. I love that quote, which is why it stuck in my mind, I guess.

Neil

p.s. a belated welcome to the forum, Minnie :hug:

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Minnie M
I think we all (well most of us) go through those stages even if we don't admit to it - (wonder if The Tramp agrees)Dunno. I'll let you know, once I've got past the
Beginner - Knows nothing, does beginners moves badly, dances with anyonestage :D

Steve

[Minnie M]

thank you Neil x: :hug:

[Minnie M]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Dunno. I'll let you know, once I've got past the stage :D

Steve


Yup The Tramp agrees ! (NOT)

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Sheepman
I was a trifle surprised to get a refusal from a beginner the other day, even after the flattery that "I'd noticed during the lesson that you obviously had talent", (and no, this isn't a "line", I've never used it before, it was true). Her explanation for the refusal was that she "wasn't good enough". I'm waiting for the opportunity to prove her wrong.
Greg

I frequently come across beginners that will initially refuse a dance because they feel they aren't good enough, and usually I will persevere in persuading them onto the floor. To some extent it is taking a big risk, because these are the ones that have the least confidence, and will be the most nervous and tense to start with.

With them I take even more trouble than usual to ensure that the dance is a positive experience if they can be persuaded to venture out.

But the rewards in those cases can also be the greatest -- taking somebody who is too scared to even walk out onto the floor, and after just a few minutes get them to start believing that yes, they can learn to dance, is something I get a huge buzz out of.

Chris

[thewacko]

:rofl: oops sorry I misread the beginning I thought it said Pole dancing with beginners:rofl:

[under par]

:rofl: oops sorry I misread the beginning I thought it said Pole dancing with beginners:rofl:


I read this post about 6 times before I understood its signifcance. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[quiet_flame]

I frequently come across beginners that will initially refuse a dance because they feel they aren't good enough, and usually I will persevere in persuading them onto the floor. To some extent it is taking a big risk, because these are the ones that have the least confidence, and will be the most nervous and tense to start with.

With them I take even more trouble than usual to ensure that the dance is a positive experience if they can be persuaded to venture out.

But the rewards in those cases can also be the greatest -- taking somebody who is too scared to even walk out onto the floor, and after just a few minutes get them to start believing that yes, they can learn to dance, is something I get a huge buzz out of.

Chris
:yeah:
There has got to be something said for getting begginers onto the floor and have them laughing their heads off... I get a little frustrated when beginners keep this "Why am i Dancing with you look on thier face..." :blush: Maybe they just think I'm a wacko... not unusual amongst the Perth(Aus) people. :D :clap:

[bigdjiver]

... Maybe they just think I'm a wacko...
It works for me too. Some unknowing beginners seem to have the idea,when first asked that they are being asked by some sort of dance God, and are correspondingly shy of their own abilities. Once convinced that they are dancing with an idiot they are much more prepared to relax, because it does not matter what a wacko thinks of them, does it?

[quiet_flame]

because it does not matter what a wacko thinks of them, does it?
:rofl: too true, too true.
But then... if you ask others who know me... I've never really been "normal" at dance any way...:whistle: :devil:

[Yliander]

:rofl: too true, too true.
But then... if you ask others who know me... I've never really been "normal" at dance any way...:whistle: :devil:

we had to come up with a new definition for normal!! :rofl: :na:

[drathzel]

:rofl: oops sorry I misread the beginning I thought it said Pole dancing with beginners:rofl:


Wishful thinking, :innocent: although i'd be up for that too! :devil:

[Magic Hans]

Dancing with beginners?

It differs a bit for me ...

On a night that I have taxied, once I'm "off-duty", I do like to get in a few really nice dances, and so will restrict who I ask, and have eye contact with.

Otherwise, I will dance with beginners. At a large venue, thought process goes something like this:

Have I danced with her before?
Does she look scary?
Do I like the look of her?
Does she look like she can dance/has rhythm?

The more favourable answers, the more likely I will ask? [I will rarely refuse]

At a smaller venue, I'll try to dance with everyone, beginner or not.

[baldrick]

we had to come up with a new definition for normal!! :rofl: :na:
C'mon, we're all perfectly normal, its the rest of them that are weird :wink:

[Yogi_Bear]

All of which brings me to the question: is the travelling return a move in it's own right??

:cheers: Absolutely. One of the most useful moves there is. It buys thinking time. It's good for bluesy stuff and making the transition between blues and MJ. It is capable of being danced with style. It can be led with either a left or right handed hold. Q.E.D.

[Terpsichorea]

I'm hardly "experienced" but am always flattered and pleased if (just about) ANY man asks me to dance.

But it can be difficult, this has been discussed elsewhere but I'll comment cos I have an example to relate from last night.

A chap asked me to dance and I know he has only been dancing for a couple of months. He rarely smiles at the best of times and says very little, which makes it all the more difficult when my instinct is to interact and encourage and "help" if there is something I can point out or suggest etc.

anyway...this guy kept grabbing my LEFT hand and trying to put me into moves that are ~normally~ led by the right and so I was all over the place over balancing and not turning well etc
Once I figured out what he was doing I tried to keep my left hand behind my back and present the right with a smile and a flourish but I'm sure he thought I was useless!!!

So what's a girl to do with a guy like that?

This is probably going to be the wrong place to ask (unless teachers can advise) because the guys who are going to post on here are all likely to be the ones who would LIKE the guidance on the night if they did something like that "wrongly" and would take it in and probably not make the mistake again but with someone who seemed so uncommunicative I felt like I just had to grin and bear it.

I suppose for you B1970 it's going to be a case of suck it and see, I'm SURE you will find friendly experienced women who are delighted to dance your 5 1/2 moves and would be equally delighted to suggest and teach another or a variation to help you along, especially if you are as enthusiastic as you seem to be because at the end of the day (or year maybe) today's beginner is tomorrows BTC!!! and we would all do well to remember that!

Yes, I would have to be honest and say I do like to choose to dance with good guys, so I can learn and improve and be challenged by a variety of moves (G-man, I WILL get that sit thing next time!!!!) and because I personally will dance much better feeding off the good lead. So in summary, it's like so many other things in life and it's all about getting the balance right IMHO.

Cx

He rarely smiles at the best of times and says very little :blush: Guilty. I really have to make an effort to shake off that 'I'm concentrating really hard' expression!

[Ghost]

Thinking about it, it struck me that it's the person I want to dance with. The label of beginner, intermediate, advanced is academic. If I enjoy dancing with them, then I'll want to dance with them some more. And how they dance with one person isn't necessarily how they're going to dance with you.

[tsh]

The only people who I actively avoid are the ones who think they're intermediate.

With everyone else, you're never sure quite where a lead is going to end up, so in a sense the beginners are just as interesting as the better dancers...

[Jazz_Shoes (Ash)]

I will most weeks. However, if I am having a bad night or not really up for paying them the extra attention I usually do then no. Not fair on them or me. x

[Lethe]

I'm hardly "experienced" but am always flattered and pleased if (just about) ANY man asks me to dance.
Cx

:yeah:

At my original ceroc venue I had a few regular dance partners but other than that a lot of the time I couldn't remember whether people were beginners or intermediates anyway so it was more or less pot luck when I asked them to dance :nice: and I'd certainly never refuse a dance on those grounds.
Had a strange experience recently, my first time at a new venue. As we went from beginner's class into freestyle the guy I was dancing with carried on repeating the 4 moves we had learnt and did so until the end of the track. It did get a little tedious towards the end but I assumed he was a beginner so was happy to carry on. Later, when we were both in the intermediate class I realised that he wasn't a beginner so he must have thought I was - clearly wasn't on top form that night :blush:

[whitetiger1518]

anyway...this guy kept grabbing my LEFT hand and trying to put me into moves that are ~normally~ led by the right and so I was all over the place over balancing and not turning well etc
Once I figured out what he was doing I tried to keep my left hand behind my back and present the right with a smile and a flourish but I'm sure he thought I was useless!!!

So what's a girl to do with a guy like that?


Cx

Simple - if he is at the Glasgow JJ's - point him out to me - Please???

A lot of people know that I am a leftie, but all but CJ :worthy: , Tramp :worthy: , and Franck :worthy: seem to forget that I have a much weaker right hand too - as a result I will actively seek out people who lead me in mixed dances which include lots of followers left hand moves....

I agree that as 99% of dancers are either right handed or can cope with a right hand lead then this should be taught to him, but it would also be nice to have one more guy who can lead me through my left hand :clap: :clap: :clap:

Tell me who he is, please??

Cheers

Whitetiger