PDA

View Full Version : What Division are you in?



Gus
27th-August-2005, 02:28 PM
As it seems to be the season for resurrecting old thread (e.g. Ceroc(tm) - Good or Bad), thought I'd be interested to see how self perceptions have changed over the last two years.

Simple question ... HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

Simply rate yourself on the following poll. No justification needed ... .though last time I did receive a rather amusing PM describing why the dancer concerned rated himself as at least as good as Viktor :sick: :rolleyes:

Jazz_Shoes (Ash)
27th-August-2005, 02:54 PM
I'm a beginner, so I guess that makes me 'Room for Improvment'?

Chicklet
27th-August-2005, 02:55 PM
Those'll be foreign football teams then? :confused:

Dazzle
27th-August-2005, 03:01 PM
Feel categorised by my title rather than ability on this one. My dancing has sufferred as a result of the title and the loss of my regular/competition partner :tears: . Probably in the table but varies from relegation to promotion :( !

Robin
27th-August-2005, 03:07 PM
Where's the "Sunday in the Park" option then ?

Gus
27th-August-2005, 03:08 PM
Those'll be foreign football teams then? :confused:Easy to calibrate .... Celtic/Rangers = League 2 .... you can work out the rest from there :wink: [...starts to run for his life as DS, DD and CJ gather their claymores, skin dye and girlie tartan skirts ... muttering "Braveheart" and start heading south to deal out retribution .....]

dance cat
27th-August-2005, 03:18 PM
Haven't got a clue, though it will only be a choice of the bottom two. It all depends on how good I feel, how decent the music is and how many good dancers I feel I can get away with annoying by having to dance with me! But then isn't dance about expressing yourself and above all just the urge to get on the dance floor and dance? Does it matter how good you are as long as you are enjoying yourself and you haven't hurt anyone?
Or have I just said the unthinkable and commited a terrible crime?
Anyway Gus perhaps this poll should really be titled the what are the best ways of getting out of doing your work!!! :devil: :rofl:

Lynn
27th-August-2005, 03:30 PM
But then isn't dance about expressing yourself and above all just the urge to get on the dance floor and dance? Does it matter how good you are as long as you are enjoying yourself and you haven't hurt anyone? No, it doesn't matter to most people. In terms of how it looks it only really matters if you are either a competitor and need to impress judges, or a teacher/demo/taxi and need to be clear in what you are demonstrating.

In terms of the dancing experience it might matter to your partner. If both partners are enjoying themselves it doesn't matter how 'good' they are. But sometimes different styles and dance experience will have an effect. Eg if I was dancing with someone to a bluesy track and they wanted to bounce around all over the place regardless of the music (picking an extreme example here!) I wouldn't enjoy the dance as much as I would with someone who was listening to and interpreting the music. Having said that, I have had some extremely enjoyable dances with beginners - my pleasure being derived from their obvious enjoyment of 'getting' a move or track.

For myself - I would always say 'room for improvement', I enjoy the fun but do want to learn the technique, and am not sure what a 'good club dancer' is but suspect I'm not there yet! :tears:

But I know one thing - I aspire to being a better dancer!

dance cat
27th-August-2005, 03:43 PM
I agree with what you're saying Lynn and I'm probably in the position of making some dances for better dancers just about endurable!! :blush:
I suppose I was thinking about the original intention behind the dancing. I like to dance because it makes me feel good. I like responding to music and it is one of the few times when I can truly switch off and forget about everything else. I do want to get better at dancing but I'm not motivated by competitons. That probably makes me very strange but people have frequently said that about me!!! :rofl:

Gus
27th-August-2005, 03:45 PM
Does it matter how good you are as long as you are enjoying yourself and you haven't hurt anyone?Totaly agree. Don't really want this thread to become one of those 'elitest' threads .... was just curious how perceptions had changed since the last time we did this poll. I'm not not sure what defines 'how good you are' ... is it pleasure to dnace with, tecchnique, how good you look .....

One of the things that sparked off my thoughts was a small jive club up North proclaiming they had the 'Best' instructor. Though this may be true I would love to know what the other instructors in the area thought of this and this instructors dancing ability (who, coincidently, I dont think has made it through the first round of any major dance competition). Though I fully recognise the nedd to 'big up' dancers and instructors in advertising, I think there should be limits and people should be able to back up their claims (but that perhaps is another thread :blush: ).

El Salsero Gringo
27th-August-2005, 04:26 PM
One of the things that sparked off my thoughts was a small jive club up North proclaiming they had the 'Best' instructor. Though this may be true I would love to know what the other instructors in the area thought of this and this instructors dancing ability (who, coincidently, I dont think has made it through the first round of any major dance competition). Though I fully recognise the nedd to 'big up' dancers and instructors in advertising, I think there should be limits and people should be able to back up their claims (but that perhaps is another thread :blush: ).How strong is the connection between the quality of someone's dancing and the quality of their teaching? In most fields, it's pretty weak (excepting the very elite of private coaching): maths teachers are not usually mathematicians, English teachers are not usually top authors, and good piano teachers are distinguished not by their virtuoso keyboard skills but by their ability to inspire and instill good habits in their pupils. So does it matter that he/she hasn't excelled in a competition - which by all accounts has very little to do with the social dancing scene?

Minnie M
27th-August-2005, 04:27 PM
How would Brighton & Hove Albion rate :innocent: (compared with dance skills that is)

AFAIK (and that aint much :rolleyes: ) they have the skills when managed properly - good at choregraphed routines only :what: :confused: :whistle:

Robin
27th-August-2005, 04:33 PM
How would Brighton & Hove Albion rate :innocent: (compared with dance skills that is)

AFAIK (and that aint much :rolleyes: ) they have the skills when managed properly - good at choregraphed routines only :what: :confused: :whistle:

So by that reasoning there should be a team competition choice in the vote aka "Dances well with others"

hehe - brings back memories - "Yo mR Ellard - we know you is well'ard" etc
rEsPEct! (sorry 'twas a team thing) :whistle:

Gus
27th-August-2005, 04:39 PM
How strong is the connection between the quality of someone's dancing and the quality of their teaching? In most fields, it's pretty weak Good question, to which I reply with; Kate, N&N, Viktor, David and Lily, Russel S, Will, Jive Brummie, Simon R. 'Nuff said? Of course there may be exceptions you would like to point out? :whistle:

Robin
27th-August-2005, 04:43 PM
How strong is the connection between the quality of someone's dancing and the quality of their teaching? In most fields, it's pretty weak {snipped}

Well, you try teaching in a field then !!! :rofl:

El Salsero Gringo
27th-August-2005, 04:58 PM
Good question, to which I reply with; Kate, N&N, Viktor, David and Lily, Russel S, Will, Jive Brummie, Simon R. 'Nuff said? Of course there may be exceptions you would like to point out? :whistle:I think you state that list to imply that those are the best teachers, who also excel in competitions.

At least two of those don't teach regular classes. I've never been to a class taught by another three on your list, so I couldn't comment on them. But I personally don't rate the others as highly as teachers as perhaps you do.

Are you saying it's a prerequisite for being a good teacher to have excelled in competition?

Lynn
27th-August-2005, 05:43 PM
I agree with what you're saying Lynn and I'm probably in the position of making some dances for better dancers just about endurable!! :blush: Me too!
I suppose I was thinking about the original intention behind the dancing. I like to dance because it makes me feel good. I like responding to music and it is one of the few times when I can truly switch off and forget about everything else. I do want to get better at dancing but I'm not motivated by competitons. :yeah: I aspire to be better because both myself and hopefully whoever I am dancing with will enjoy the dance more. I love the idea that there is more to learn and there always will be.

I'm not very good at assessing my own ability at dancing, and for me the measure of whether I am dancing well is the enjoyment I get and my partner gets. While its lovely to get a compliment about how 'good' the dance was from someone who has been watching, it means more to get one from the person I was dancing with.

Russell Saxby
27th-August-2005, 06:16 PM
As it seems to be the season for resurrecting old thread (e.g. Ceroc(tm) - Good or Bad), thought I'd be interested to see how self perceptions have changed over the last two years.

Simple question ... HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

Simply rate yourself on the following poll. No justification needed ... .though last time I did receive a rather amusing PM describing why the dancer concerned rated himself as at least as good as Viktor :sick: :rolleyes:

Hey Gus

You missed a category - should read as follows

International - Man U/Chelsea (Vitkor, Amir, Nina etc)
Premiership - Spurs (A list Instructor, Open finalist?)
Championship - Wolves (Ceroc Instructor, Adv Finalist?)
League 1 - Port Vale (Good club dancer)
League 2 - Chester City (Fun rather than technique)
NonLeague - Stafford Rangers ('Room for improvement'?)
Sunday Morning Wannabies - (Ex Cool Catz Instructors)

:flower:

Russell Saxby
27th-August-2005, 06:19 PM
I think you state that list to imply that those are the best teachers, who also excel in competitions.

At least two of those don't teach regular classes. I've never been to a class taught by another three on your list, so I couldn't comment on them. But I personally don't rate the others as highly as teachers as perhaps you do.

Are you saying it's a prerequisite for being a good teacher to have excelled in competition?


I don't class myself as a competition dancer....now if only I could get myself a regular dance partner - any offers ladies???

David Bailey
27th-August-2005, 07:26 PM
I'm interested in the assumptions behind the categories - is it your assessment that one can only progress past a certain level as a dancer (whatever that means) by either teaching or entering competitions?

I'd disagree with that - to me, neither teaching nor competing will improve you much as a "freestyle, dance-with-anyone" dancer.

Teaching means you try and impart knowledge rather than improve your own.
Competing means you learn how to dance exhibition-dances (i.e. visual-oriented), with one specific partner.

But, for example, what about the dancer who spends all her time improving through working on their dance technique, lots of freestyle, lots of other dance disciplines etc. She's a superb dancer, but because she's neither a teacher nor a competitor, in this list she'd never go up beyond the 2nd division.

I've had the privilege of dancing with dozens of such women, all of whom (to me) could give the very best in your list a run for their money as dancers - but there's no category to do them justice. :sad:

El Salsero Gringo
27th-August-2005, 07:37 PM
I'm interested in the assumptions behind the categories - is it your assessment that one can only progress past a certain level as a dancer (whatever that means) by either teaching or entering competitions?I understood Gus not to mean that you had to be either a teacher of competitor at whatever level, but that you considered yourself at roughly that standard, i.e. "I'm about as good a dancer as Viktor, I'm as good a dancer as an 'A'-list instructor, or I'm as good a dancer as your average Ceroc teacher."

I'm not entirely convinced that there's an equality in standard between Cercc Instructors and 'advanced finalists', and A-list Ceroc Instructors and 'open finalists', but I think the categories he's suggesting are reasonably clear despite that.

Gus
27th-August-2005, 08:42 PM
I'm not entirely convinced that there's an equality in standard between Cercc Instructors and 'advanced finalists'Welllll ... I was going to put Ceroc teachers in League 2 and LeRoc teachers in League 1 but Billco and Simon R are already after my guts and I dont want to get lynched at the T-Jive tomorrow!

Back on Thread ... nope, at the lower levels I dont believe that there is much of a correlation between dancing and teachers ... I know a number of Ceroc and Blitz instructors who would struggle in the intermediates competition (and occaisionaly I put myself in that category :( ) but it seems that the top superstars all seem to be instructors as well.

azande
27th-August-2005, 09:18 PM
Simple question ... HOW GOOD ARE YOU?

AND HOW GOOD ARE YOU, GUS?

Northants Girly
27th-August-2005, 10:14 PM
Haven't got a clue, though it will only be a choice of the bottom two. What ARE you talking about? :what:
Unfortunately it seems that this is not a public poll so I can't see how you have voted but I hope you have voted appropriately . . . . .
and you have voted yourself into one of the top two categories! :flower:

and if you havn't I might have to let the cat out of the bag ;)

ChrisA
27th-August-2005, 11:20 PM
to me, neither teaching nor competing will improve you much as a "freestyle, dance-with-anyone" dancer.

This hasn't been my experience at all, and I suspect that this assertion is based on some very flawed assumptions. When you teach, you learn just as much as the student, if you are any good at teaching. You don't learn the same things as the student, of course, but you still learn, and that learning can be applied in many ways.



Teaching means you try and impart knowledge rather than improve your own.

See above. Teaching and learning are in no way mutually exclusive.



Competing means you learn how to dance exhibition-dances (i.e. visual-oriented), with one specific partner.

Again, the idea that dancing for a comp with one partner gives you no transferable skills is simply wrong.

There are plenty of things that can be learned thought comp practice, simply by having time and space to work on them, that would never be possible just through lots of freestyles. But they're instantly transferable to freestyle, once learned.

Whitebeard
28th-August-2005, 12:32 AM
When you teach, you learn just as much as the student, if you are any good at teaching. You don't learn the same things as the student, of course, but you still learn, and that learning can be applied in many ways.
I'm with you there. The best way to learn is to teach. You have to stay one step ahead of your students or you're dead.

But there are many components to good dancing and, at an individual level, one dancer's meat is another dancer's poison. I can think or moves and interpretation, musicality and variation, vertical bounce versus horizontal persuasion, reaction and intereaction, attitude and style, and, probably, much more.

Who is to judge ??

Surely, it's your partner of the moment.

Mr Cool
28th-August-2005, 10:30 AM
I'm interested in the assumptions behind the categories - is it your assessment that one can only progress past a certain level as a dancer (whatever that means) by either teaching or entering competitions?

I'd disagree with that - to me, neither teaching nor competing will improve you much as a "freestyle, dance-with-anyone" dancer.

Teaching means you try and impart knowledge rather than improve your own.
Competing means you learn how to dance exhibition-dances (i.e. visual-oriented), with one specific partner.

But, for example, what about the dancer who spends all her time improving through working on their dance technique, lots of freestyle, lots of other dance disciplines etc. She's a superb dancer, but because she's neither a teacher nor a competitor, in this list she'd never go up beyond the 2nd division.

I've had the privilege of dancing with dozens of such women, all of whom (to me) could give the very best in your list a run for their money as dancers - but there's no category to do them justice. :sad:


Im with you one hundred percent teaching or competing does little to improve your freestyle dancing.
Many of the very best men and ladies have no wish to teach or compete for them dancing is for pleasure nothing improves dancing as much as dancing freestyle to a variety of music with lots of different partners learning a choreographed routine with the same partner has little too do with freestyle, indeed many so called champions are not the best when it comes to freestyle. and lets face it many teachers seldom dance for them its simply a way of making money. :waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

Russell Saxby
28th-August-2005, 10:38 AM
lets face it many teachers seldom dance for them its simply a way of making money. :waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

but not all of them :waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

KatieR
28th-August-2005, 10:44 AM
I've gone with 'Room for Improvement' just on the basis that there definately is lots of room for improvement! There are so many things I wish I could do... I wouldnt say better but a lot more polished.

LMC
28th-August-2005, 10:50 AM
Can't vote, because "East Stirling" isn't an option...

David Bailey
28th-August-2005, 12:55 PM
This hasn't been my experience at all, and I suspect that this assertion is based on some very flawed assumptions.
Almost certainly, my assertions usually are. However...


When you teach, you learn just as much as the student, if you are any good at teaching. You don't learn the same things as the student, of course, but you still learn, and that learning can be applied in many ways.
Surely if you are being taught, you learn more - isn't that the point? It seems analagous to the "dancing with more / less advanced partners" situation to me - you can learn from dancing with anyone, but you learn more and faster by dancing with the more advanced partners than the less advanced ones.

I don't feel that, say, 10 years spent teaching will improve your dancing as much as 10 years spent learning and practicing (e.g. learning other disciplines, learning different styles, learning technique, doing lots of freestyling and so on.)


Again, the idea that dancing for a comp with one partner gives you no transferable skills is simply wrong.
I never said "no skills", just "not as much" - the flipside of spending 10 years dancing mainly with one partner is that you don't spend so much time dancing with different partners, so you don't develop "partner transfer" skills - or not as much.


There are plenty of things that can be learned thought comp practice, simply by having time and space to work on them, that would never be possible just through lots of freestyles. But they're instantly transferable to freestyle, once learned.
Sure - but off the top of my head, I can think of three things that I imagine won't easily transfer:
- flashy complex visual routines / moves
- knowledge of one's partner's specific strengths and weaknesses
- knowledge of the "how to play the exhibition game"


The best way to learn is to teach.
Well, I assumed the best way to learn is to, err, learn. Or should we all become teachers so we can learn better? :confused: :innocent:


You have to stay one step ahead of your students or you're dead.
That's only true if you assume you're teaching the same people all the time. If you change your students - and it's not as if there's a scarcity of beginner dancers in the UK - you could teach pretty much the same thing all the time, to different audiences. (Note the "could" here!)

Anecdote 1: I used to dance regularly with an "A lister" about 10 years ago; it was fantastic and memorable. I then met said person a year ago and we've danced a few times since. It was nice. From a subjective point of view, the experience of dancing with that person hasn't improved noticeably, even allowing for nostalgia factors.

Anecdote 2: I had some of my best dances of the year last night, with someone who has never competed or taught - although she's in demand to demonstrate pretty much every day of the week. To call her a "good club dancer", several levels below "A-list", seems insulting to me.

To summarize (and this is way longer a post than I started out with :eek: ), I don't disagree with the existing categories, but there seems no place for someone who just happens to be a fantastic dancer...

JoC
28th-August-2005, 01:06 PM
To summarize (and this is way longer a post than I started out with :eek: ), I don't disagree with the existing categories, but there seems no place for someone who just happens to be a fantastic dancer...Would it have helped it the word 'equivalent' had been inserted after the category description? Or a simple rate yourself out of 10...?

Andy McGregor
28th-August-2005, 01:26 PM
I think we pretty much know our level - I've been an advanced finalist so I know I fit there. The fear, for me at least, is not that I can't put myself in the right place on this table, it's that I'll never move up a division and get into an open final - unless I can arrange a tranfer for my ageing legs :tears:

The only bit I really disagree with is the assumption that a Ceroc instructor could make it into an Advanced final. They probably could, if they trained for it, changed their dancing, etc, etc. But, having seen many Ceroc teachers dance I don't think the majority could make it through to an advanced final without a great deal of work. There are exceptions, they're exceptions because they've done the work: I don't think the fact they are Ceroc instructors makes any difference - possibly they'd do better in competitions that give you marks for being pretty (this final statement, of course, excludes Adam Nathanson :devil: ).

My final thought is 'so what'? What does it matter where you are in this 'league' when you're out social dancing? We're out to have a good time and we can do that no matter where we're placed. In fact, you could argue that a bunch of guys having a kick-about on a sandy beach are having much more fun that the players in the World Cup final.

Jive Brummie
28th-August-2005, 02:01 PM
Well seeing as we're (just a forum generalisation...they happen...go with it! :wink: ) all too concerned with ripping the question to pieces I thought I'd stick my scrawny little neck on the line (again? I hear you cry) and actually answer Gus's pretty unassuming, general interest question...

In Scotland Melanie and I are (according to the options available :wink: ) Premiership as we won the open last year.

On a UK level we're Championship purely for what it says above my avatar...

J x x

Lynn
28th-August-2005, 02:01 PM
I don't feel that, say, 10 years spent teaching will improve your dancing as much as 10 years spent learning and practicing (e.g. learning other disciplines, learning different styles, learning technique, doing lots of freestyling and so on.) A teacher - in any subject - who stops learning, becomes a less effective teacher. Teachers should always be learning - in order to be good teachers. So for dance teachers there is (or should be) more motivation to learn, develop technique, dance lots of freestyle... And always be open to learning from your students as well.

Re competitions. Having only dipped my little toe into the world of competitions, I'm probably not very qualified to comment, but I would think that as well as all the 'performance' aspects, any competitor would also be seeking to improve their technique, and that improvement would be transferable to social dancing. I know the little experience I had was something that provided a challenge for me to improve more. (And DWAS competitions are just as much about social dancing skills as performance IMO.)

Jazz_Shoes (Ash)
28th-August-2005, 02:31 PM
I've gone with 'Room for Improvement' just on the basis that there definately is lots of room for improvement! There are so many things I wish I could do... I wouldnt say better but a lot more polished.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :really:

Robin
28th-August-2005, 02:43 PM
I think we pretty much know our level {snipped}

The only bit I really disagree with is the assumption that a Ceroc instructor could make it into an Advanced final. {snipped again} possibly they'd do better in competitions that give you marks for being pretty (this final statement, of course, excludes Adam Nathanson :devil: ). {more snips}

:yeah: :yeah:

Couldn't agree more - especially the bit about Adam :whistle:

That may be true of people on the the forum however, you'd be suprised at the number of people out there who don't know their level. Either they asssume that they're fairly poor (when they clearly aren't), or that they know it all when I'd have perhaps thought of them in a somewhat *lower* category.

'Sfunny as the former group IME is mainly ladies and the latter mainly men - especially those who have not been dancing that long. What does that say hmmm ?

just my ha'pennies worth

Clive Long
28th-August-2005, 04:49 PM
I've gone with 'Room for Improvement' just on the basis that there definately is lots of room for improvement! There are so many things I wish I could do... I wouldnt say better but a lot more polished.

"Room for improvement" ???? :rofl:

If that's true, then I don't make the pub team.

I was going to suggest I was Division 2 praying (but not working) to make Division 1.

I am now very depressed :sad:

However, as there is always room for improvement I'll promote you to upper Division 1 (I have friends ..... ) fighting for promotion.

May have insulted her. Quick. Hide.

Clive

David Bailey
28th-August-2005, 07:05 PM
{ good points }
I've no disagreement that the best always seek to improve themselves, or that some things you do to improve your competitive dancing can help your social dancing.

But I don't think those should be seen as exclusive paths, or "better" paths to improvement than, well, learning and dancing.

And I don't believe the teaching process by itself helps improve the teacher as much as the learner (a reducto-ad-Davidum example: NewKid's got a lesson from DavidB today - who do you think will learn the most out of that? Multiply that by 10 years...)

Possibly (!) I'm being anal about this...

JoC
28th-August-2005, 07:24 PM
Possibly (!) I'm being anal about this...Just before I read this I was about to ask if you'd misspelt recto...

filthycute
28th-August-2005, 07:51 PM
Im with you one hundred percent teaching or competing does little to improve your freestyle dancing.


My thoughts exactly whilst dancing with Nigel, Viktor, Amir, Jordan Frisbee.....the list goes on....
What a waste of time eh? :rolleyes: :whistle:

fc x

David Bailey
28th-August-2005, 09:44 PM
My thoughts exactly whilst dancing with Nigel, Viktor, Amir, Jordan Frisbee.....the list goes on....
What a waste of time eh? :rolleyes: :whistle:
I've never danced with them so I don't know. What's your point? Or was that just gratuitous sarcasm?

People can of course be great social dancers, great competitive dancers and great teachers - that doesn't invalidate the argument that competitive dancing and teaching by themselves are not very effective at improving one's own "dance-with-anyone-in-a-club" dancing skills. Or at least, that they're not as effective methods as, you know, spending an equivalent amount of time learning.

Either I'm particularly poor at explaining my position, or you're particularly poor at understanding it. I'm going to assume the former for now.

So, to reiterate: I have no problem with the people listed being great dancers - I have a problem with the people not listed who are also great dancers, not being listed because they don't want to compete or teach.


Just before I read this I was about to ask if you'd misspelt recto...
:rofl:

Yes, I'm definitely being extra-anal - I think this is my Forum Reflex no. 204...

Clive Long
28th-August-2005, 10:08 PM
<< snip >>
Yes, I'm definitely being extra-anal - I think this is my Forum Reflex no. 204...
I hear receiving indiscriminate positive rep is the only cure for that.
:looks to camera:
Help this man now. Rep him.

Clive Long
(+ve rep pimp)

JoC
28th-August-2005, 10:13 PM
I hear receiving indiscriminate positive rep is the only cure for that.
:looks to camera:
Help this man now. Rep him.

Clive Long
(+ve rep pimp)
So what do you owe him for...? :whistle:

Robin
28th-August-2005, 10:17 PM
My thoughts exactly whilst dancing with Nigel, Viktor, Amir, Jordan Frisbee.....the list goes on....
What a waste of time eh? :rolleyes: :whistle:

fc x


Have to say the last time I danced with nigel it didn't do much for me ! :cool:

Heather
28th-August-2005, 10:32 PM
Good question, to which I reply with; Kate, N&N, Viktor, David and Lily, Russel S, Will, Jive Brummie, Simon R. 'Nuff said? :whistle:

I'm SURE it's an oversight on your part that you forgot to mention Jive Brummie's fabulous partner MELANIE who is a fantastic dancer !! :angry:

:hug: :kiss:
Heather,
xx

Heather
28th-August-2005, 10:40 PM
My final thought is 'so what'? What does it matter where you are in this 'league' when you're out social dancing? We're out to have a good time and we can do that no matter where we're placed. In fact, you could argue that a bunch of guys having a kick-about on a sandy beach are having much more fun that the players in the World Cup final.


:yeah: :yeah:

Well said Andy !!
:hug:
Heather,
xx

Jive Brummie
28th-August-2005, 10:54 PM
Or was that just gratuitous sarcasm?

~snip~

Yes, I'm definitely being extra-anal - I think this is my Forum Reflex no. 204...

:yeah:

Jive Brummie
28th-August-2005, 11:09 PM
Re-reading this it seems we have two lines of thought here. One stating that you don't have to compete or teach to be a great dancer and the second one stating that you do.

Well, I'm just guessing here but I reckon that the teacher's/competitors who have added to this thread at some stage were neither of those things at one time...including me.

And, with the added advantage of hind sight, I would say in my 'once none teaching-competing, now teaching-competing' capacity, I've learned more during the latter than during the former. That doesn't mean to say great dancers either teach or compete because many don't :flower:

Hope that makes sense.

IMO during a class and freestyle those taking part in it pretty much learn, or are at least shown, a number of moves that they may or may not have done before. As a teacher of these moves/routines it is up to me to ensure that I make myself fully aware beforehand as to what the potential pitfalls of dancing these moves may be so that when I see people making these errors while learning the moves, I can then rectify said problems. To me, I believe this gives me a better understanding of not only the moves I'm teaching but the regular and sometimes irregular mistakes people make. Hence I can then think to myself that if this happens on the practise floor it might happen on the freestyle floor and if it does I know what to do if dancing with the relevant 'error-maker'. I think this makes me a better dancer...but I'm open to alternative opinions...

JB x x

Lynn
28th-August-2005, 11:32 PM
So, to reiterate: I have no problem with the people listed being great dancers - I have a problem with the people not listed who are also great dancers, not being listed because they don't want to compete or teach. But I think the lists were to give examples of the level of dancers that people would say they felt they were at? And in order for people to make comparisions it needs to be someone they have heard of and seen dance - teachers and competition winners have a higher profile and more people are likely to have seen them dancing. I'm sure there are some fabulous dancers who have no desire to either teach or compete, but they also aren't maybe widely known outside their own circles as the examples listed so aren't as useful for people to think 'am as I good as...?'

MartinHarper
29th-August-2005, 01:30 AM
Should we all become teachers so we can learn better? :confused: :innocent:

Attempting to pass on knowledge is one way that folks learn. Most folks who've been doing MJ for a little while seem fairly open about passing on hints and tips that they've picked up. It's a fairly minor way to acquire knowledge, compared to key elements such as classes, individual tuition, and dedicated practice.

To my mind, the biggest thing that teaching, competing, and performing can bring to people's dancing is motivation. To be sure, social dancers could take the time to practice things they've learnt, outside of freestyle events, in a proper learning environment, but I reckon most are unlikely to spend their time that way.

Anna
29th-August-2005, 04:49 AM
I want to know what category you're in Gus .. :D

feel free to pm me the answer to that if you dont feel like exposing yourself ;)

Gus
29th-August-2005, 09:39 AM
I want to know what category you're in Gus .. :D
Me ... I've dropped down to "Wolves" on the last year or so but hope to get 'promoted' again once I get back into dancing properly again and get a regular dance partner or two. :waycool:

David Bailey
29th-August-2005, 11:19 AM
That doesn't mean to say great dancers either teach or compete because many don't :flower:
That's all I wanted.

I'll now return to my normal sunny self....

Gus
29th-August-2005, 11:29 AM
Me and my big mouth ......

Yesterday I commented to an A list dancer that NOBODY had dared to put themselves in the top two categories ..... come in this morning and whoaaa!

Anyone want to decalre their assessment as Internationals? :whistle:

Lynn
29th-August-2005, 12:03 PM
Was thinking about this 'how good are you' and realised that it is the reason why I'm reluctant to ask guys to dance. I think to myself that there are so many other dancers in a different 'division' from me, I don't know many moves so might follow incorrectly etc. On my home ground its totally different as I have confidence here that I'm good enough for the guys to have an enjoyable dance.

I don't feel this is just a confidence issue though, I think it is a realistic assessment of my abilities and dancing experience compared to many of the other dancers around (who perhaps go dancing at least once a week and probably more often). Its another reason to want to become a better dancer.

CJ
29th-August-2005, 12:06 PM
Anyone want to decalre their assessment as Internationals? :whistle:

Well, I caoul be a Scottish International. :clap:

Which means I'm still playing for Port Vale... :tears:

Thank the stars a REAL Scottish dance team would be better than our footie team!!!!

Andy McGregor
29th-August-2005, 12:37 PM
Me ... I've dropped down to "Wolves" on the last year or so but hope to get 'promoted' again once I get back into dancing properly again and get a regular dance partner or two. :waycool:I've always thought that Gus and I are pretty much the same level. And I'd put myself down as Wolves too.

However, this thread has inspired me ot enter an Open, just to see if I can get in the final and promote myself to the next division. Perhaps Gus and I should enter Britroc together :wink: :devil:

CJ
29th-August-2005, 12:45 PM
POINT OF ORDER

I've only seen Chester City play twice on tv, and whilst there wasn't much technique, the game didn't involve much fun either... :sick:

Gus
29th-August-2005, 12:53 PM
POINT OF ORDER

I've only seen Chester City play twice on tv, and whilst there wasn't much technique, the game didn't involve much fun either... :sick:You obviously haven't seen Port Vale play either (another local team) :sad: Robbie Williams is their biggest fan ... I rest my case.

Would be nice iof the debate moved away from Teacher v Dancer and back to how people saw themselves as dancers ..... I was wondering when someone would try to correlate an average night of beginners, Intermediates, upper intermediates, those of no hope of ever dancing on beat etc. to the divisions .....

DavidB
29th-August-2005, 01:15 PM
those of no hope of ever dancing on beatStoke City

David Franklin
29th-August-2005, 01:16 PM
I was wondering when someone would try to correlate an average night of beginners, Intermediates, upper intermediates, those of no hope of ever dancing on beat etc. to the divisions .....I thought about it, but I think you've set the (non-teaching-related) standards far too high. My guess would be the average night has no-one (including the teachers :devil: ) who could be expected to reach the advanced final. So almost everyone is League 1 or League 2 (absolutely everyone, including Amir, Nina etc. has "room for improvement", so the non-league category is pretty meaningless). And even then, I'd say you can be well into the "good club dancer" category and still be essentially "fun, rather than technique".

Sorry... (have a pint on me...) :cheers:

LMC
29th-August-2005, 01:19 PM
Would be nice iof the debate moved away from Teacher v Dancer and back to how people saw themselves as dancers ..... I was wondering when someone would try to correlate an average night of beginners, Intermediates, upper intermediates, those of no hope of ever dancing on beat etc. to the divisions .....
How you feel about yourself as a dancer?

I think it's all relative - i.e. it depends on the average standard at the venue in question. And on the music - I can immediately think of one regular partner who I really enjoy dancing fast tracks with, but hate dancing slow - he is even more hopeless at blues than I am (and that's saying something!).

At Jango, I am definitely in the "East Stirling" range - the music is challenging, it's an education to watch everyone. It takes a lot for me to ask anyone to dance because why would they want to dance with me when they can dance with beginners any time and there's all those fantastic other dancers there?

It's great to be challenged - but after Jango yesterday, Icey and I decided to trot along to Berkhamstead to 'relax' - we feel more within our league there. The music is generally more familiar and less challenging and we have the confidence there to grab anyone for a dance. Whilst still definitely Saturday morning players (well, I am), I would say that we could promote ourselves to the "room for improvement" there (although bottom of the table for me!)

dance cat
29th-August-2005, 01:32 PM
[QUOTE=Lynn]A teacher - in any subject - who stops learning, becomes a less effective teacher. Teachers should always be learning - in order to be good teachers. So for dance teachers there is (or should be) more motivation to learn, develop technique, dance lots of freestyle... And always be open to learning from your students as well.

:yeah: :yeah:
As a primary school teacher i have to agree. Anyone who stops learning as a teacher becomes stale and uninspiring. My enthusiasm for teaching is not only fuelled by the children but also my unending search for how to make my teaching better. The dance teachers that inspire me are the ones that are interested in learning more about dancing and have an obvious enthusiasm for what they're doing. IMHO you only move forward as a teacher by putting yourself in the position of being a learner and striving for the best way of motivating your students to learn.

Gus
29th-August-2005, 02:56 PM
Stoke CityYou cruel, cruel BA****D! I try to forget nightly that I ever came from a town associated with such a dissapointing team :( :( :(

Whitebeard
29th-August-2005, 10:39 PM
You cruel, cruel BA****D! I try to forget nightly that I ever came from a town associated with such a dissapointing team :( :( :(
And I was born in Manchester.

But my dancing doesn't rise nor aspire to that standard.

Anna
30th-August-2005, 12:43 AM
Anyone want to decalre their assessment as Internationals? :whistle:

Nawww :na: .... not Internationals...

Myself I chose Premiership because after all, the poll was about how you view yourself, NOT how you actually are.

And in order to be able to get up and dance the best I can (at the moment, it's very hard with such an awful cold :tears: ) , I need to be my own biggest fan.

To say something that reminds me very much of several Disney movies..


If you don't believe in yourself... then you're screwed !


Haha okay well it was almost Disney right ? :whistle:

Also

performing art = dance

performing art + confidence = good :clap: :worthy:

performing art - confidence = bad :(

spindr
30th-August-2005, 08:59 AM
I was gonna' vote -- but I can't find the: "In a league (world) of your own" option :)

SpinDr

Icey
30th-August-2005, 08:59 AM
How you feel about yourself as a dancer?

I think it's all relative - i.e. it depends on the average standard at the venue in question. And on the music - I can immediately think of one regular partner who I really enjoy dancing fast tracks with, but hate dancing slow - he is even more hopeless at blues than I am (and that's saying something!).

At Jango, I am definitely in the "East Stirling" range - the music is challenging, it's an education to watch everyone. It takes a lot for me to ask anyone to dance because why would they want to dance with me when they can dance with beginners any time and there's all those fantastic other dancers there?

It's great to be challenged - but after Jango yesterday, Icey and I decided to trot along to Berkhamstead to 'relax' - we feel more within our league there. The music is generally more familiar and less challenging and we have the confidence there to grab anyone for a dance. Whilst still definitely Saturday morning players (well, I am), I would say that we could promote ourselves to the "room for improvement" there (although bottom of the table for me!)

:yeah: I decided to try the Jango class on Sunday and it certainly was a challenge and then some. I throughly enjoyed it but I don't believe I am good enough for it yet so I am firmly in the "Sunday morning kickabout" section with the hope of improving enough to graduate to the "room for improvement" league.

When RK pointed out who was who and what competions they had won I felt like hiding in the ladies as I was soooo out of my league. I was scared.

Anna
30th-August-2005, 09:02 AM
I was gonna' vote -- but I can't find the: "In a league (world) of your own" option :)

SpinDr


That's the spirit SpinDr!! :D

LMC
30th-August-2005, 09:10 AM
When RK pointed out who was who and what competions they had won I felt like hiding in the ladies as I was soooo out of my league. I was scared.
I've been doing some background reading this weekend and this (http://www.eijkhout.net/lead_follow/beginners.html) cheered me up no end :D (with thanks to afterfive.co.uk for the link :) )

If we're using a football team analogy, I guess 'covering' for the less skilled members of the team makes the rest better players... so maybe we should take the philosophy that if we're asking a Really Good Dancer for a dance, it's actually out of the goodness of our hearts to help them improve their dancing - completely unselfish of course :innocent: :yum:

You first, I know I stick my neck out a LOT, but that's going far...

JoC
30th-August-2005, 09:32 AM
I've been doing some background reading this weekend and this (http://www.eijkhout.net/lead_follow/beginners.html) cheered me up no end :D (with thanks to afterfive.co.uk for the link :) )Tonic for the masses! (Reality check for others?) Hope it's true.

Thinking of the people I (currently) believe are the best leads around, they are those who appear to be able to lead virtually any follower through moves they never knew possible. :worthy:

Is there a following equivalent? :confused:

LMC
30th-August-2005, 09:53 AM
Tonic for the masses! (Reality check for others?) Hope it's true.
IMO (based on very limited experience) it's probably more true for leaders than followers - maybe unless the follower is way more advanced than me. Because the lead is in charge (or should be!)

I've been lucky enough to have some encouragement/chat with Lily and Lory recently who have both (independently) said that with some leads, they just "give in" and follow as best they can. I've seen Lily with a bad lead - he was not on the beat and I suspect, yanking - because compared with her normal elegance she looked off-balance and 'rushed' trying to keep on time. OF COURSE this is no reflection on Lily! - the point is that it made me realise that even the best follower can't do much if the lead is limiting them.


Thinking of the people I (currently) believe are the best leads around, they are those who appear to be able to lead virtually any follower through moves they never knew possible. :worthy:
:yeah:


Is there a following equivalent? :confused:
I can't think that it would be to the same extent because the lead is in control of the partnership??? But I guess adapting to a beginner's 'response' and following mistakes ( :blush: ) without 'missing a beat' would be a large part of it...

Clive Long
30th-August-2005, 09:54 AM
:yeah: I decided to try the Jango class on Sunday and it certainly was a challenge and then some. I throughly enjoyed it but I don't believe I am good enough for it << snip >>
When RK pointed out who was who and what competions they had won I felt like hiding in the ladies as I was soooo out of my league. I was scared.
Deep respect to those who have put in the hard work and won things.

However.

These people were dancing pretty much the same before and after you knew this about them. And it's the dancing that's the important, objective thing not the "information". However, your feelings about your standard of dancing changed and you maybe felt self-conscious about your dancing. Why?

I'm not getting at you Icey - I think it is a very human response for our assessment of people to change when we find out some information about them (that information maybe inaccurate or partial). Why do we humans do that? (and don't kid yourself that you don't).

CRL

David Bailey
30th-August-2005, 10:19 AM
These people were dancing pretty much the same before and after you knew this about them. And it's the dancing that's the important, objective thing not the "information". However, your feelings about your standard of dancing changed and you maybe felt self-conscious about your dancing. Why?
I dunno - but Icey, you're braver than me, I'm too intimidated to even go near there, all these uber-dancers etc...

Gus
30th-August-2005, 10:20 AM
:yeah: I decided to try the Jango class on Sunday and it certainly was a challenge and then some. I throughly enjoyed it but I don't believe I am good enough for it yet .BUT ... the way to get "good enough" is to persevere and learn. I've been dancing for far too long and STILL find the Jango lessons challenging (always "room for improvement" :wink: ) but I learn something new each time and slowly but surely my dancing improves (well at least that is the theory).

KatieR
30th-August-2005, 11:28 AM
"Room for improvement" ???? :rofl:

If that's true, then I don't make the pub team.

I was going to suggest I was Division 2 praying (but not working) to make Division 1.

I am now very depressed :sad:

However, as there is always room for improvement I'll promote you to upper Division 1 (I have friends ..... ) fighting for promotion.

May have insulted her. Quick. Hide.

Clive

No, dont panic Clive,... its takes a fair bit to insult me.. many have tried.. and failed!!

Thanks for the promotion - I'll try and make you proud!! Still think I need a heck of a lot of work though!

Lory
30th-August-2005, 11:41 AM
To Newkid and Icey.. it's been said several times on here in various places but how someone 'looks' when they dance, doesn't necessarily reflect how they 'feel' to dance with..

Yes, there are some dancers who have the 'whole package' but ther'll be others who you'll look at and think 'WOW factor' or what :waycool: then you get to dance with them and they make 'your' dancing feel rubbish. :(

On the other hand, sometimes you can get a beginner, with a very limited repertoire of moves, but done in time and because you know your not going have any tricky syncopated stuff thrown at you, you can relax and take advantage of the basicness ( i made that word up) and add all your own flourishes, practice your spare arm, double spins, the lot!! :clap: (And this, is probably the point when the next girl is sitting there, thinking, WOW, this guy is really good :waycool: I'm going to grab him for the next dance, :clap: then goes :confused: what's happened :confused: why won't he dance like that with ME :angry: :tears: :rofl: )

KatieR
30th-August-2005, 11:43 AM
:yeah: I decided to try the Jango class on Sunday and it certainly was a challenge and then some. I throughly enjoyed it but I don't believe I am good enough for it yet so I am firmly in the "Sunday morning kickabout" section with the hope of improving enough to graduate to the "room for improvement" league.

When RK pointed out who was who and what competions they had won I felt like hiding in the ladies as I was soooo out of my league. I was scared.

Can I just say Icey that you must never let that deter you. Im not even close to being in the same league as some of the dancers and Jango but they are all very human and all very very amazing people. If I didn't go because I didn't think I was good enough I would just be missing out because of my own silliness. I dont know one person at Jango that would judge or criticize your level and ability of dancing. They would be the first people to jump in and help and give you advice.

NEVER let fear stop you from doing anything.

Lory
30th-August-2005, 11:58 AM
but they are all very human
I think thats pushing it a bit! :wink:

KatieR
30th-August-2005, 12:00 PM
I think thats pushing it a bit! :wink:

I use the term loosely! :whistle: :wink:

Donna
30th-August-2005, 12:07 PM
My opinion is that those who are good dancers already - becoming dance teachers will catapult their dancing to an entirely new level as it fills in any gaps in their own learning. They learn a series of technique rules that will make their dancing consistent.

As a competitor, I find that you take dancing much more seriously and therefore you are determined to focus more on style and interpretation which also takes you to a new level. However, I do find that once you have fully adapted to your partners style, social dancing becomes a bit tricky and requires a lot more concentration when following otherwise it results in anticipating the moves too much which then becomes frustrating for the person you're dancing with. :rolleyes: Or maybe that's just me :confused:

KatieR
30th-August-2005, 12:10 PM
As a competitor, I find that you take dancing much more seriously and therefore you are determined to focus more on style and interpretation which also takes you to a new level. However, I do find that once you have fully adapted to your partners style, social dancing becomes a bit tricky and requires a lot more concentration when following otherwise it results in anticipating the moves too much which then becomes frustrating for the person you're dancing with. :rolleyes: Or maybe that's just me :confused:

My long term goal is at some point to compete, ... although its the age old problem of too many girls not enough boys... all the great lads already have great partners and those that dont already have about 20 girls lined up... so how do you get on the queue?

David Bailey
30th-August-2005, 12:26 PM
If I didn't go because I didn't think I was good enough I would just be missing out because of my own silliness.
Well, I am indeed very silly most of the time, but I don't think it's unreasonable for most people to feel a little intimidated. We're all human, and if you're going to a place to have fun, feeling uncomfortable about it and worrying what people will think is maybe not the best way forward.


NEVER let fear stop you from doing anything.
Except possibly crocodile-wrestling.

Donna
30th-August-2005, 12:36 PM
My long term goal is at some point to compete, ... although its the age old problem of too many girls not enough boys... all the great lads already have great partners and those that dont already have about 20 girls lined up... so how do you get on the queue?


Depends how long you have been dancing first. I would never consider getting yourself a dance partner until you are more experienced first. When you become more experienced, that's when all those top male dancers tend to put you in their 'queue'. :wink: (Unless you're lucky of course)

When I met my dance partner, I was low intermediate, but then because he has been dancing for about 10 years, he really helped me to understand it a lot more, and I think I have improved a lot since then.....although their is still a lot more to improve on yet. :(

JoC
30th-August-2005, 01:24 PM
Well, I am indeed very silly most of the time, but I don't think it's unreasonable for most people to feel a little intimidated. Of you?


We're all human, and if you're going to a place to have fun, feeling uncomfortable about it and worrying what people will think is maybe not the best way forward.I find telling myself that 'nobody knows me' is quite useful regards the 'not worrying about what people think' issue. Faking confidence sometimes helps too until a little of the real stuff arrives. (It's that power of suggestion thing again...)

It's all relative too this 'where you rate yourself' thing, I asked someone to dance recently who said to me 'ooh, scary woman!' ( :eek: me?!?!?!?) on the basis that he thought I knew what I was doing... :rofl: . I think I'm ok in a not really been dancing that long kind of way but I'm certainly a long long way from being one of 'the really good ones'. It was all the more of a surprise because I think that the chap in question is a really lovely (very natural) and fun dancer, he just hasn't got millions of moves because he's not been dancing that long either...and from his comments presumably doesn't rate himself very highly (I'll be asking him more often in future :nice: ).

Donna
30th-August-2005, 02:14 PM
I find telling myself that 'nobody knows me' is quite useful regards the 'not worrying about what people think' issue. Faking confidence sometimes helps too until a little of the real stuff arrives. (It's that power of suggestion thing again...)

Or more accurately, stop worrying so much about what people think. Accept sincere compliments and constructive criticism gracefully, and discard everything else.

David Bailey
30th-August-2005, 03:04 PM
Of you?
:rofl: Err, no....

KatieR
30th-August-2005, 03:52 PM
Depends how long you have been dancing first. I would never consider getting yourself a dance partner until you are more experienced first. When you become more experienced, that's when all those top male dancers tend to put you in their 'queue'. :wink: (Unless you're lucky of course)
. :(

I would say that I am probably a reasonable middle of the range intermediate dancer.... its probably best to ask those I have danced with for a more accurate assessment of my ability but I have been dancing since February this year.

Donna
30th-August-2005, 04:59 PM
I would say that I am probably a reasonable middle of the range intermediate dancer.... its probably best to ask those I have danced with for a more accurate assessment of my ability but I have been dancing since February this year.

Ok so that's six months. I'd just keep at it and like you said, ask those you have danced with and also advanced/or more experienced dancers. Buying some advance ceroc videos helps you look more at style/interpretation as well. Try ballroom - it's great and it really does make a big difference when you bring it into your jive. Then you'll get loads running up to ya and asking if you want to compete. :)

dance cat
30th-August-2005, 06:38 PM
I dunno - but Icey, you're braver than me, I'm too intimidated to even go near there, all these uber-dancers etc...
If I may be so bold,as an unknown on the forum, I have to disagree with the idea that Jango is intimidating.
I went to the Tjive at the end of July. I would class myself in the bottom two options of the poll and apart from the person I went with, was a complete unknown to everyone there. I did find it quite scary until I settled down, but without exception I found everyone to be friendly and welcoming.I danced with some of the best dancers in the country/ universe(!!!) and not one of them made me feel uncomfortable about my standard of dancing or gave the impression that dancing with me was excrutiating. In fact they made me feel that I was floating round the dance floor like a fabulous dancer. And I began to stop worrying about whether I was doing things wrong and enjoyed the dance for what it was.
I think we can all be held back by our pre-conceptions about venues and dancers. I'm not a dancer with a lot of confidence but by pushing myself out of my comfort zone I had a fabulous time with very friendly people and learnt a great deal, to the extent that I have rediscovered the buzz I thought I'd lost.
I have to say thank you to Clive who kindly asked me to dance twice and put up with my muppetry on both occasions without complaint!

LMC
30th-August-2005, 07:23 PM
:worthy: dancecat

The intimidation is entirely unreasonable and totally from our side in our awareness of our own inadequacies :blush:

I would absolutely agree that in no way do the Really Good Dancers at Jango behave in a way that we should be intimidated - like you, I've never found anyone to be anything other than friendly and helpful :nice: I've danced with lots of them at other venues too and wouldn't have got even the little way I have without some of their advice and encouragement.

Thanks all :flower: :hug:

Brings us back really to Dick Crum's definition:

"Beginning dancer: knows nothing.
Intermediate dancer: knows everything; too good to dance with beginners.
Hotshot dancer: too good to dance with anyone.
Advanced dancer: Dances everything. Especially with beginners."

KatieR
30th-August-2005, 07:42 PM
Ok so that's six months. I'd just keep at it and like you said, ask those you have danced with and also advanced/or more experienced dancers. Buying some advance ceroc videos helps you look more at style/interpretation as well. Try ballroom - it's great and it really does make a big difference when you bring it into your jive. Then you'll get loads running up to ya and asking if you want to compete. :)

I have done some ballroom, mainly tango, salsa and waltz and am a Jango regular so have a reasonable idea as to how its all put together. I just feel that my dancing is lacking that certain ooomph for lack of a better word that some dancers have when you watch you just go WOW...

David Bailey
30th-August-2005, 07:48 PM
Hi dance cat, and welcome!


If I may be so bold,as an unknown on the forum, I have to disagree with the idea that Jango is intimidating.
It intimidates me - therefore it's intimidating. That's a subjective measure. Non-wusses (such as yourself :) ) may well not be intimidated.

JoC
30th-August-2005, 08:27 PM
It intimidates me - therefore it's intimidating. But it doesn't really, right?

David Bailey
30th-August-2005, 08:39 PM
But it doesn't really, right?
No, really it does. In the same way that the Blues room in MJC intimidated me.

I'm a wuss, but I'm brave enough to admit it. :grin:

dance cat
30th-August-2005, 09:36 PM
Please believe me New Kid when I say I redefine the old (and I know inaccurate) saying 'It's always the man's fault' to levels never seen before on the dance floor. I can totally mess up the most blatant of moves and reduce experienced dancers to quivering wrecks!
It was a scary experience going there but I'm so glad I did it. And it was totally opposite to my behaviour at my local venues, where I won't ask taxi dancers or teachers to dance because I'm too scared. So you see I am a wuss on my home territory. I needed a kick up the pants and the Tjive was it!

Anna
30th-August-2005, 10:19 PM
I have done some ballroom, mainly tango, salsa and waltz and am a Jango regular so have a reasonable idea as to how its all put together. I just feel that my dancing is lacking that certain ooomph for lack of a better word that some dancers have when you watch you just go WOW...

Do bellydancing!!!

No really, I started it about 2 years ago and I seriously think that (and a whole lot of Salsa - especially any body movement workshops, latin bodywaves etc) are what has helped my "wow factor" the most.. that is, if i have one at all :rofl:

Whitebeard
30th-August-2005, 10:55 PM
Do bellydancing!!!
Me!!! Isn't that a bit extreme.

Anna
30th-August-2005, 11:21 PM
I was meaning that for KatieR! :D

However, bellydancing is also an option for men.. I'm sure I heard something about a few of the famous male hotshots out here having done Egyptian or Arabic dance...

stewart38
30th-August-2005, 11:31 PM
My long term goal is at some point to compete, ... although its the age old problem of too many girls not enough boys... all the great lads already have great partners and those that dont already have about 20 girls lined up... so how do you get on the queue?


rubbish, i know lots of men including myself looking for a dance partner :sad:

WittyBird
30th-August-2005, 11:51 PM
rubbish, i know lots of men including myself looking for a dance partner :sad:

cant type too busy sobbing :tears:

Whitebeard
30th-August-2005, 11:57 PM
I was meaning that for KatieR! :D

However, bellydancing is also an option for men.
I love women's bellies but, believe me, men's bellies, surely, are best forgotten. They're usually beer begotten and uttereley gross.

Please don't tell me I'm wrong and my lack of pulling power is down to inches at the waist. It's only a couple of inches for god's sake.

Anna
31st-August-2005, 12:00 AM
Bellydance is just to improve your bodywaves and overall coordination.. All you have to show at MJ is the final product - which means for you men, no belly showing needed :D

stewart38
31st-August-2005, 12:07 AM
cant type too busy sobbing :tears:


you can stop taking the mick as well and go post on Luton site, lift ok was it :waycool:

WittyBird
31st-August-2005, 12:13 AM
you can stop taking the mick as well and go post on Luton site, lift ok was it :waycool:
what innocent little me take the mick ??? :innocent:
Lift was the best, pure driving genius, are we talking about the one to Luton or the one u did on the dance floor? :blush: :rofl:

stewart38
31st-August-2005, 12:18 AM
what innocent little me take the mick ??? :innocent:
Lift was the best, pure driving genius, are we talking about the one to Luton or the one u did on the dance floor? :blush: :rofl:


Ive put my self in the international division :whistle: :yeah: because...

when i did that drop on you you were not meant to 'drop' 30 seconds later but i still stop your head hitting the floor, pure class :clap:

WittyBird
31st-August-2005, 12:26 AM
Ive put my self in the international division :whistle: :yeah: because...

when i did that drop on you you were not meant to 'drop' 30 seconds later but i still stop your head hitting the floor, pure class :clap:

touche ye olde master of wit i shall bow down in your greatness... :rofl:

Gus
31st-August-2005, 08:18 AM
It intimidates me - therefore it's intimidating. That's a subjective measure. Non-wusses (such as yourself :) ) may well not be intimidated.David, heres a thought ... you have commented long and hard about Jango, and how good other clubs are ... how about ACTUALY GOING TO JANGO!!! Then ... shock, horror,probe ... you might understand what everyone is talking about and realise what the difference is between a truly innovative club and a standard Ceroc club (no offence intended).

David Bailey
31st-August-2005, 08:50 AM
David, heres a thought ... you have commented long and hard about Jango,
:rofl: Hardly - if you want to see me doing "long and hard commenting", see the Star Signs thread :)

By my standards, this is "casual, off-the-cuff remarks" level. :whistle:


and how good other clubs are ... how about ACTUALY GOING TO JANGO!!! Then ... shock, horror,probe ... you might understand what everyone is talking about and realise what the difference is between a truly innovative club and a standard Ceroc club (no offence intended).
See, this is exactly the sort of thing that puts me off...

I've never said that Jango doesn't sound great. inspirational, innovative, etc. All I ever said was that it intimidated me. And ALL CAPS COMMANDS won't make me less intimidated, strangely enough...

El Salsero Gringo
31st-August-2005, 09:13 AM
:rofl: Hardly - if you want to see me doing "long and hard commenting", see the Star Signs thread :)

By my standards, this is "casual, off-the-cuff remarks" level. :whistle:


See, this is exactly the sort of thing that puts me off...

I've never said that Jango doesn't sound great. inspirational, innovative, etc. All I ever said was that it intimidated me. And ALL CAPS COMMANDS won't make me less intimidated, strangely enough...I'd guess that for someone of David's high standard, the only thing to be intimidated by is that certain people speak of Jango as if it's the only dance night of the week worthy of the name. Sure it's different music, and high proportion of well-known good dancers go there, but you know what? It's still a dance class followed by freestyle.

David Bailey
31st-August-2005, 09:18 AM
It's still a dance class followed by freestyle.
:confused: You mean it's not the Second Coming on a weekly basis? Hmmm, maybe I should go then. :rofl:

Alright, I'll come clean. The real reason is much more boring - I work in West London, and live in North London, and I just can't face repeating the "commute to work" thing in the evening when there's a very nice Ceroc venue just up the road.

Or maybe that's just an excuse, and I'm really intimidated... Or, maybe I'm just confusing myself now.

Gus
31st-August-2005, 09:41 AM
I'd guess that for someone of David's high standard, the only thing to be intimidated by is that certain people speak of Jango as if it's the only dance night of the week worthy of the name. Sure it's different music, and high proportion of well-known good dancers go there, but you know what? It's still a dance class followed by freestyle.its a place that the people who go to like and so they praise it, just like many of the other clubs praised on this Forum, e.g. Dundee, Finchley etc. HOWEVER, it IS different from any Ceroc venue, and as all Ceroc venues are more or less the same by definition it is differnt (QED :D ). Oh, by the way ... the lesson is radically different, the music more so and the standard and relaxed attitude of the dancers also is a distinguishing feature. I have NEVER been to any modern jive club where I have been made to feel more welcome. This may well be beacuse its asmall club or the setting but the main point for me is, regardless of the standard of the dancers, is that its a place where you can feel relaxed at and try things out.

El Salsero Gringo
31st-August-2005, 09:47 AM
HOWEVER, it IS different from any Ceroc venue, and as all Ceroc venues are more or less the same by definition it is differnt (QED :D ).I think that's the significant point: it isn't a Ceroc class. If you go to a lot of different styles of dance classes (salsa/ballroom/WCS/whatever) throughout the week then the different teaching style, difficulty of moves and intimate atmosphere aren't going to be unique to Jango. For someone who's only experience is a traditional Ceroc class, then yes it is going to be different.

When you say that it's a place where you can "relax and try things out", do you not find that at Ceroc evenings too?

Gus
31st-August-2005, 10:01 AM
When you say that it's a place where you can "relax and try things out", do you not find that at Ceroc evenings too?Show me a Ceroc club with the standard of music, dancers and dance floor space to allow this .... and teachers good enough to coach, and I'll be there! :waycool:

El Salsero Gringo
31st-August-2005, 10:12 AM
Show me a Ceroc club with the standard of music, dancers and dance floor space to allow this .... and teachers good enough to coach, and I'll be there! :waycool:I'm not telling where... in case the much valued floorspace suddenly gets filled up!

David Bailey
31st-August-2005, 10:25 AM
I'm not telling where... in case the much valued floorspace suddenly gets filled up!
:rofl: Oi! Shhh! Don't even hint at the very existence of the Secret Ceroc Club, or everyone will want to know about it.

Ooops...

KatieR
31st-August-2005, 11:52 AM
Do bellydancing!!!

No really, I started it about 2 years ago and I seriously think that (and a whole lot of Salsa - especially any body movement workshops, latin bodywaves etc) are what has helped my "wow factor" the most.. that is, if i have one at all :rofl:

Could be worth a try.. anything to give my dancing a little more than it has now! :o

KatieR
31st-August-2005, 11:55 AM
... the lesson is radically different, the music more so and the standard and relaxed attitude of the dancers also is a distinguishing feature. I have NEVER been to any modern jive club where I have been made to feel more welcome. .

I have to admit I find Jango a breath of fresh air so to speak... I have become somewhat bored with the standard Ceroc format and find that Jango shakes things up a bit and gives it a fresh approach... i get tired of doing catapult after catapult after catapult after octopus in the ceroc classes and practically salivate over learning something new and different. ;)

Robin
31st-August-2005, 12:20 PM
its a place that the people who go to like and so they praise it, just like many of the other clubs praised on this Forum, e.g. Dundee, Finchley etc. HOWEVER, it IS different from any Ceroc venue, and as all Ceroc venues are more or less the same by definition it is differnt (QED :D ). Oh, by the way ... the lesson is radically different, the music more so and the standard and relaxed attitude of the dancers also is a distinguishing feature. I have NEVER been to any modern jive club where I have been made to feel more welcome. This may well be beacuse its asmall club or the setting but the main point for me is, regardless of the standard of the dancers, is that its a place where you can feel relaxed at and try things out.
Oh, I didn't realise this was the BFG award practise thread :wink:

Gus
31st-August-2005, 12:27 PM
Oh, I didn't realise this was the BFG award practise thread :wink:And so that the rest of us mortals can understand you are saying........????? :confused:

Robin
31st-August-2005, 12:30 PM
And so that the rest of us mortals can understand you are saying........????? :confused:


The most blatant advertising award ...????
or the most *subtle*
:rofl:

acutally - that should be hijacked thread ....

David Bailey
31st-August-2005, 12:34 PM
The most blatant advertising award ...????
or the most *subtle*
:rofl:
Nahh, I think Adam's got that one well and truly sewn up.

Gus may have to fight Lounge Lizard for second place though. My money's on Gus, he's scary and intimidating. :innocent:

Donna
31st-August-2005, 12:39 PM
Bellydance is just to improve your bodywaves and overall coordination.. All you have to show at MJ is the final product - which means for you men, no belly showing needed :D

YUUKKKK!!! Imagine all those fluffy belly buttons hanging out!!!!! :sick:

Robin
31st-August-2005, 12:41 PM
don't you just find it brilliant when they're are 2 conversations going on in the same thread at the same time ?
:wink:

Donna
31st-August-2005, 12:47 PM
Do bellydancing!!!

No really, I started it about 2 years ago and I seriously think that (and a whole lot of Salsa - especially any body movement workshops, latin bodywaves etc) are what has helped my "wow factor" the most.. that is, if i have one at all :rofl:

Ahhh. so that's why Gus said you have got brilliant body rolls!!!!! Think I'll take it up NOW!!!!!

Donna
31st-August-2005, 12:48 PM
don't you just find it brilliant when they're are 2 conversations going on in the same thread at the same time ?
:wink:

OOOH YES!! :wink:

spindr
31st-August-2005, 12:50 PM
YUUKKKK!!! Imagine all those fluffy belly buttons hanging out!!!!!
:drool: absolutely (http://www.bellylorna.com) :drool:

Donna
31st-August-2005, 12:59 PM
:drool: absolutely (http://www.bellylorna.com) :drool:

You know.....I am going to have to try and organise a belly dancing theme party up here simply because I have GOT to get myself into one of those costumes!! They're amazing!!!! Imagine us gals jiving in one of those!!! :rofl: Hey, it's one way of making sure we get enough men to dance with!!! :clap:

Robin
31st-August-2005, 01:08 PM
You know.....I am going to have to try and organise a belly dancing theme party up here simply because I have GOT to get myself into one of those costumes!! They're amazing!!!! Imagine us gals jiving in one of those!!! :rofl: Hey, it's one way of making sure we get enough men to dance with!!! :clap:

the wet-t shirt competition is probably another :whistle:

and for the ladies, the wet boxers competition

Donna
31st-August-2005, 01:40 PM
the wet-t shirt competition is probably another :whistle:

and for the ladies, the wet boxers competition


:clap: :rofl:

Anna
1st-September-2005, 12:08 AM
Ahhh. so that's why Gus said you have got brilliant body rolls!!!!! Think I'll take it up NOW!!!!!

Nawwww... :blush: .... Bellydance does make your body rolls a lot smoother though.. and it teaches you ones you would never learn in MJ - the only ones I've ever seen taught are the .. okay I can't think of names for them.. the one that starts at your head and ends up at your feet.. and the reverse of that :D wow that was a fantastic explanation... :whistle:

And those bellydancing costumes are awesome.. when I'm recovered from my huge bout of THE FLU i'll post a picture of my latest one I got from Turkey .. or not... I might give a couple of people on here nightmares :rofl:

jockey
2nd-September-2005, 01:23 AM
I hear that the Spanish league is rather good; I favour Athletico Bilbao over most English clubs.

stewart38
2nd-September-2005, 11:08 AM
its a place that the people who go to like and so they praise it, just like many of the other clubs praised on this Forum, e.g. Dundee, Finchley etc. HOWEVER, it IS different from any Ceroc venue, and as all Ceroc venues are more or less the same by definition it is differnt (QED :D ). Oh, by the way ... the lesson is radically different, the music more so and the standard and relaxed attitude of the dancers also is a distinguishing feature. I have NEVER been to any modern jive club where I have been made to feel more welcome. This may well be beacuse its asmall club or the setting but the main point for me is, regardless of the standard of the dancers, is that its a place where you can feel relaxed at and try things out.


So when are we going to have a Jango class out in the sticks then say Chesham way :whistle: Id financially back it

Gus
2nd-September-2005, 12:35 PM
So when are we going to have a Jango class out in the sticks then say Chesham way :whistle: Id financially back itSince when is Chesham far from Hammersmith??

Dunno ... think that Divi/TWK/Kate/Will should take the concept on tour ... but its there venture so why dont you ask them. i'm just a happy customer. :grin:

stewart38
2nd-September-2005, 01:37 PM
Since when is Chesham far from Hammersmith??




On a week day its seems further thats all :sad:

Donna
2nd-September-2005, 01:42 PM
Nawwww... :blush: .... Bellydance does make your body rolls a lot smoother though.. and it teaches you ones you would never learn in MJ - the only ones I've ever seen taught are the .. okay I can't think of names for them.. the one that starts at your head and ends up at your feet.. and the reverse of that :D wow that was a fantastic explanation... :whistle:

And those bellydancing costumes are awesome.. when I'm recovered from my huge bout of THE FLU i'll post a picture of my latest one I got from Turkey .. or not... I might give a couple of people on here nightmares :rofl:

That sounds like a backwards body roll to me?? ;) Aww hop you get over the flu soon too!! :hug:

Dazzle
2nd-September-2005, 07:14 PM
That sounds like a backwards body roll to me?? ;) Aww hop you get over the flu soon too!! :hug:

Haha! Got you back for my flower :flower: , hop? Must be a flu bug! :rofl:

Lou
2nd-September-2005, 07:25 PM
Dunno ... think that Divi/TWK/Kate/Will should take the concept on tour ... but its there venture so why dont you ask them.
Will & Kate have come down to Bristol & taught a Jango class a couple of times (for which I'm very grateful), but sadly no TWK & Divi yet.