PDA

View Full Version : Double Spins



KazMK
26th-August-2005, 02:23 PM
A move that I really want to master without ending up in a heap on the floor!!
What is the knack for not loosing your balance during a spin and also not becoming too dizzy?
I have not yet mastered the art of the double spin and when I try it I just dont seem to have enough momentum to keep the spin going.

Any advice greatfully received.

KazMK

KatieR
26th-August-2005, 02:29 PM
A move that I really want to master without ending up in a heap on the floor!!
What is the knack for not loosing your balance during a spin and also not becoming too dizzy?
I have not yet mastered the art of the double spin and when I try it I just dont seem to have enough momentum to keep the spin going.

Any advice greatfully received.

KazMK#

I think the main thing about spinning is remembering to spot. pick a mark on the wall or whereever you are and dont take your eyes of it till the last second then snap your head back around to the exact same spot. Also, find a secure spot for your arms so they arent flailing around, this can also put you off balance. I started by folding them in front of me, but now I tend to keep put them on my hips for a bit of styling... also practice practice practice.. .I put my shoes on every day for at least 10 minutes and just practice spinning...
and with the double spin, I find not taking my other foot far of the floor it can also give a bit of balance.

David Franklin
26th-August-2005, 02:50 PM
From the rec.arts.dance FAQ (http://www.eijkhout.net/lead_follow/turn_spin.html):

Keep knees slightly bent and relaxed - don't lock your knees!
Keep spine, neck, head on a vertical axis. Maintain good posture - remember "KEEP NOSE OVER TOES". Keep the body "square" - head straight over shoulders over hips,- not to one side or the other. A person's head accounts for about 10% of his/her body weight - thus head placement and orientation have a huge effect on balance. Looking at your feet is as sabotaging as windshield-wiper-like oscillating your head from side to side. But so is the placement and orientation of every other body part. Dance posture is terribly important. Don't arch your back.
Keep eyes looking forward, not down!
Don't go up high on your toes.
Spot on your partner in a turn.
Use your arms for momentum.
Keep feet together, turn on the balls of your feet, not heels.
Stop in a definite pose.
Here are a few of my own thoughts:

You shouldn't need that much momentum. It's far more likely you are running out of balance, or killing your momentum trying to keep balanced (e.g. putting a heel down).
Although you're actually losing your balance, not loosing it, maybe that was a freudian slip - as it's important to keep your body tight, not loose. Pay particular attention to your free leg - if you don't control it, it will control you!
I personally think spotting is over-emphasised. It's perfectly possible to spin without spotting - and there's an argument that a really fast spin is impractical to spot. (Ice-skaters don't spot). And there's that "head is heavy" thing - it's very possible to throw yourself off balance by over-enthusiastic spotting.
If all else fails, cheat. Use both feet. Very few will notice, let alone care...

Rebecca
26th-August-2005, 03:03 PM
The only advice that I would give (once you've digested all of the above) is to allow yourself to spin, and to believe that you can. Years of ballet training taught me all of the technical stuff but really I find that when I'm relaxed and having fun I can keep on spinning. If I'm uptight for any reason, or I try too hard my brain sends signals to all of the wrong places (i.e. I tense my shoulders and throw them back or fidget my feet).

So, find a partner you enjoy dancing with and who you know will laugh with you not at you if you stumble, relax your knees, feel the floor with your feet but don't look at them (they can do it all by themselves), and have faith. .

Good luck and enjoy :flower:

Rebecca

P.S. Once you've mastered it I'd check out with different dance partners whether or not they like their partner spinning loads. I love it but I know I've annoyed a partner or two by attempting to showcase :blush:

Zebra Woman
26th-August-2005, 03:12 PM
If all else fails, cheat. Use both feet. Very few will notice, let alone care...


Absolutely agree . IMO FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT is a very good plan. (I wouldn't recommend it on that 'other' thread though :whistle: )

I spent several months paddling myself round with my spare foot when I started doing double spins. Anything.... just to get round in time. I still do cheat sometimes (if I've had anything to drink or hit a sticky spot on the floor or I've been pushed too hard into the spin).

IMO Sneakily paddling myself round with my spare foot is a very useful skill. In fact these days if someone complimented me on a fab double spin (very unlikely) I don't think I would even bother admitting it was a fake. :devil:

Sparkles
26th-August-2005, 03:15 PM
IMO Sneakily paddling myself round with my spare foot is a very useful skill. In fact these days if someone complimented me on a fab double spin (very unlikely) I don't think I would even bother admitting it was a fake. :devil:
I completely agree; in fact I would say a '100% correct, well-balanced and expertly-timed double spin' is all but non-existant as far as my dancing goes :blush:.
Cheat, as long as you cheat well and with confidence no-one will ever know :wink:

robd
26th-August-2005, 03:22 PM
P.S. Once you've mastered it I'd check out with different dance partners whether or not they like their partner spinning loads. I love it but I know I've annoyed a partner or two by attempting to showcase :blush:

I love it when people double (triple, quad,...) spin provided they come to face and resume the dance in time with the music. If the spin stops just after the (half)beat it can be annoying to say the least.

Zebra Woman
26th-August-2005, 03:31 PM
I love it when people double (triple, quad,...) spin provided they come to face and resume the dance in time with the music. If the spin stops just after the (half)beat it can be annoying to say the least.

You've just reminded me of the fun I had learning to do a double spin . I spent a long time doing one and three quarter spins :sick: . I would finish on the beat, look ahead - no partner! Then out of the corner of my right eye, 90 degrees further round, I would see him standing there waiting....... I would immediately accuse him of moving round a bit while I was spinning to make it harder for me. :really:

Of course that was a bad idea :rolleyes: he told his mates and they would all shift round clockwise a bit if I was spinning. Just for a laugh....

Oh how we laughed. :rofl:

Well it all turned out fine as in the end I sort of mastered doing 2 and a quarter spins with these guys so a simple double with anyone else was a piece of cake. Thanks guys :hug:

FWIW I think that trying to do three is a good way of getting better at doing two. With really good footwear and not near any sharp objects of course.

KatieR
26th-August-2005, 11:13 PM
I personally think spotting is over-emphasised. It's perfectly possible to spin without spotting - and there's an argument that a really fast spin is impractical to spot. (Ice-skaters don't spot). ]

I find when doing lots of fast top turns in a row (Clayton had me do about 7 last Saturday night) I need to spot or I end up all over the shop. I think to learn to spin properly, spotting is a very useful technique and then once you become a little more confident in your double spinning, its not so important. i just find it really helped me.

Whitebeard
27th-August-2005, 12:32 AM
One of my partners in beginners class, I believe, pulled off a perfect double spin. No input whatsoever from me; (and Lou does that too in freestyle). I had to enquire, was it so, and received the affirmative. Nice, cheeky little lady; don't think I've had a solo with her. Next door, bright as a button, just like her mother, was her 7 or 8 year old daughter; did they practice at home I enquired? Yes; then they moved on, more than one.
At a Ceroc night, perhaps even a Leroc night, you never know what's coming up next.

Lou
27th-August-2005, 09:35 AM
No input whatsoever from me; (and Lou does that too in freestyle). Awww.. :hug:

It's the same as anything - practice!

Oh, and fear, of course - as I know that if I get lazy & my timings start to suffer, during the class Sherif will make pointed comments about people needing to do 2 turns in one beat... :whistle: :wink:

Ballroom queen
27th-August-2005, 10:12 AM
A move that I really want to master without ending up in a heap on the floor!!
What is the knack for not loosing your balance during a spin and also not becoming too dizzy?
I have not yet mastered the art of the double spin and when I try it I just dont seem to have enough momentum to keep the spin going.

Any advice greatfully received.

KazMK

As well as all of the above, a good pair of dance shoes with a suede sole.
:clap: :clap:

Lory
27th-August-2005, 10:37 AM
without ending up in a heap on the floor!!

For me, the biggest hurdle was just having the guts to go for it! :cool:

I had a bit of a mental block about it (no comments about me being mental thanks :D )

In the end, I think you just have to accept the fact, that you might end up a heap on the floor a few times to begin with, I know I did :blush:

Whitebeard
27th-August-2005, 11:10 AM
..... during the class Sherif .....
Ah, that's your little secret.

If he's your guru, you've just gotta have attitude.

LMC
27th-August-2005, 11:24 AM
For me, the biggest hurdle was just having the guts to go for it! :cool:

I had a bit of a mental block about it (no comments about me being mental thanks :D )

In the end, I think you just have to accept the fact, that you might end up a heap on the floor a few times to begin with, I know I did :blush:
:yeah:

I still fall over every time I double spin. If the double spin is successful it's the resulting surprise that makes me fall over.

But I agree about Lory being mental, takes one to know one. Hang on a sec, sorry, I mean I agree that you have to believe you can do the double spin - I'm not quite there yet, but there are already little circular marks on the work kitchen floor where I've been practising!

El Salsero Gringo
27th-August-2005, 11:34 AM
:yeah:

I still fall over every time I double spin. If the double spin is successful it's the resulting surprise that makes me fall over.

But I agree about Lory being mental, takes one to know one. Hang on a sec, sorry, I mean I agree that you have to believe you can do the double spin - I'm not quite there yet, but there are already little circular marks on the work kitchen floor where I've been practising!Here's a hint someone might find useful: if you want to practice spins on a lino floor, take a can of ironing spray-starch, and give the floor a quick spray first. It works wonders.

Whitebeard
27th-August-2005, 11:43 AM
Here's a hint someone might find useful: if you want to practice spins on a lino floor, take a can of ironing spray-starch, and give the floor a quick spray first. It works wonders.
You can use an iron then ?? How quaint and old fashioned.

And lino ?? Do they still do that ?? Mine's vinyl, and in stockinged feet I'm quite a dervish.

spindr
27th-August-2005, 11:53 AM
Make sure that you can *really* dance a single spin:

Do a single spin -- but just let the rotation finish -- DO NOT STEP BACK]


Useful questions:

Are you still on the same spot that you started?
Are you still "on-balance"?
Did you HAVE to step back?
Are your feet close together?


If you can't stay "on-balance" for a single spin -- then you will start to "fall" out of a double :)
And of course you shouldn't step back (out of the spin) unless the leader leads it.

SpinDr.

Whitebeard
27th-August-2005, 12:02 PM
A moment's digression following my remarkable achievement in leading a double spin during class.

Guys; isn't it great to wander onto the floor ..... as you do from time to time. Lazily hold up an arm (as instructed; I hasten to add) and have an attractive young lady less than half your age rush over with radiant smiles, grab your free hand, and drag you into the line-up ..... thereupon to perform for you alone. If only real life were like that!!

DavidY
27th-August-2005, 12:03 PM
I'm very much reminded of this:

The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy has this to say on the subject of flying.
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying.
The knack lies in learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
...
The first part is easy.
...
Clearly it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.
One problem is that you have to miss the ground accidentally. It's no good deliberately intending to miss the ground because you won't. You have to have your attention suddenly distracted by something else when you're halfway there, so that you are no longer thinking about falling, or about the ground, or about how much it's going to hurt if you fail to miss it.
It is notoriously difficult to prise your attention away from these three things during the split second you have at your disposal. Hence most people's failure, and their eventual disillusionment with this exhilarating and spectacular sport.For me, the relevance of this to spinning is the whole doing-it-accidentally thing. If I try really hard to spin, I probably won't. If I have a casual intention to spin and then think about something else, I stand a lot more chance.

You still need to do all the things other people have said like keeping tension and not having flailing limbs (and I'm the first to admit my actual spinning technique isn't very good). I agree with ESG that you need a good surface too.

The first time I ever succeeded in doing a double spin was on a good dance floor, when I was relaxed near the end of a good night, and did it almost by accident. Once I'd managed it once it was easy to do a few more on the same floor, and it does give you confidence that it's not totally impossible.

(I can't offer any help about actual flying, but maybe the folk here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=145868#post145868) can)

LMC
27th-August-2005, 12:17 PM
< snip useful tips >
And of course you shouldn't step back (out of the spin) unless the leader leads it.

Interesting.... I've found myself "not bothering" with the step back on occasion - because I haven't felt the need to. Particularly in beginner's classes where a step back is often not really led. Maybe there's hope... (but will have to 'watch' the lead more)

AFA as momentum is concerned, there has to be something in the tension as well - i.e. lead needs to have something to push against to get the spin going. Intuitively, there shouldn't be more tension needed (in follow's arm) for a double spin as opposed to a single spin?

Lynn
27th-August-2005, 02:46 PM
As well as all of the above, a good pair of dance shoes with a suede sole.
:clap: :clap: :yeah: My first pair of suede soled dance shoes made a big difference to my spinning - I was struggling with single spins before - realised after I got my new shoes that my problems had been partly at least to do with a very slow floor and old street shoes.
I still fall over every time I double spin. If the double spin is successful it's the resulting surprise that makes me fall over. Does that explain why your avatar is upside down - too much spinning? :rofl:

The first time I ever succeeded in doing a double spin was on a good dance floor, when I was relaxed near the end of a good night, and did it almost by accident. Once I'd managed it once it was easy to do a few more on the same floor, and it does give you confidence that it's not totally impossible. :yeah: Me too. I was on a good floor and just as I went into the spin I decided I had enough momentum to do a double spin - well it was probably 1 3/4 but close enough to start with. The venue we used to use here in Belfast had a really nice floor and I could do them there (sadly its no longer available on the night we need it).

I really, really need to practice my spinning technique. When I try I find I am concentrating on so many things - trying to spot, keeping my arms in, spare foot low, balance right, that something gives and I go off balance. Guess I need to practice more. :blush:

KatieR
28th-August-2005, 10:55 AM
:yeah: My first pair of suede soled dance shoes made a big difference to my spinning - I was struggling with single spins before - realised after I got my new shoes that my problems had been partly at least to do with a very slow floor and old street shoes.
:

Its my belief that shoes do make a huge difference in ones ability to spin. I no longer dance in the bloch trainers because it inhibits my spin ability. i have a friend who can do a triple and quadruple 'spin' in the trainers but when I really watched her spin and asked her to break it down i found that she was not true spinning but just step turning really fast. I know some people are in the belief that it doesn't matter how you do it, but to me technique is a big part of it. I have the satisfaction of knowing that my double spins are on one foot. Not a huge thing to be proud of i know but it keeps me happy. Plus I get in trouble with Nicky (Haslam) if I step turn a spin for being lazy.

Lynn
28th-August-2005, 01:17 PM
Its my belief that shoes do make a huge difference in ones ability to spin. I no longer dance in the bloch trainers because it inhibits my spin ability. The first dance shoes I bought were Bloch trainers and I still love them for classes and workshops. But do find I don't spin as well in them, so don't wear them much for freestyle. I bought my first pair of suede soles at Southport and much as loved them, they felt comfortable etc, it was the difference they made to spinning that I noticed the most. Mmm, dance shoes.... :drool:

Andy McGregor
28th-August-2005, 01:37 PM
The first dance shoes I bought were Bloch trainers and I still love them for classes and workshops. But do find I don't spin as well in them, so don't wear them much for freestyle. I bought my first pair of suede soles at Southport and much as loved them, they felt comfortable etc, it was the difference they made to spinning that I noticed the most. I find that suede soles are fabulous to spin in. But they do need constant attention to keep then nice as they pick up so much dirt and floor wax etc. I find that Bloch 'Stealth' dance trainers are a good second choice as they don't have that difficult angle of sole that the more common Bloch trainers have. I think that you need to have your knee over the ball of your foot to spin well and the trainers that most people wear have an angle to the sole that places the knee in front of the ball of your foot when you have the sole flat to the floor.


Mmm, dance shoes.... :drool: :yeah:

Note to Lynn, Our work here is done. Another thread diverted to talking about shoes :wink:

slinkyjo
28th-August-2005, 08:43 PM
No advice but reading the useful tips i feel i might have a go myself next time....(hopefully without doing a Norman Wisdom impression which i feel i used to do whilst attempting a single spin.....actually....not that long ago). Where's that ironing starch!! :rofl:

JoC
28th-August-2005, 09:40 PM
FWIW I think that trying to do three is a good way of getting better at doing two.Like this idea.



For me, the biggest hurdle was just having the guts to go for it! :cool:

I had a bit of a mental block about it (no comments about me being mental thanks :D )

In the end, I think you just have to accept the fact, that you might end up a heap on the floor a few times to begin with, I know I did :blush:And that about sums it up for me, time to get gutsy! Need to prime some understanding partners who I can request catapults from, specifically for having a go.

Whitebeard
28th-August-2005, 11:15 PM
..... who I can request catapults from ....
Whoo hoo, cor bloimey, a move I know and can do. Have you got long hair? It would be fabulous to have my face deliciously flayed with fragrant locks twice in quick succession.

Saxylady
29th-August-2005, 11:11 AM
When I picked up on the fact that some men think it's fantastic to have a partner who can do multiple spins I gave it a try - without much initial success. I find spotting on a double spin makes me stop when I come back round - going 'unfocussed' works better, but what to do with the feet, arms etc is still a problem.

Surprisingly, in the last beginners class on a recently polished floor (wearing my Blochs) I found myself whizzing round twice in no time without even thining about it. Later in freestyle, when I tried, it was the usual travelling shuffle and a bemused look from my partner!

I take heart from what Carol Haines said at a style workshop earlier this year: 'I don't do double spins - they only get one, but I make it a good one'.

KazMK
29th-August-2005, 01:55 PM
WOW, What a response! Thanks guys for all the help and advice. I could not believe that amount of folk that had logged on to give me advice. What a superb bunch of people. :clap:

If any of you are going to Mussleburgh next weekend then you must hunt me out. OR look for the person in a heap on the floor - you will know it was me trying out my double spins!!!! :D

Well a lot to take on board there and load of practice I think! I do agree that I probably being slightly mental to to achive the spins may help. No probs there!!! I loved the suggestion about the spray on the kitchen floor to make it easier to spin - we have a lot to thank Mr Sheen for you know!! :rofl:

Thanks again and will keep you posted as to how I get on. Believe me the first time I do a double spin - you will here me all the way from Scotland - SCREAMING!!! :flower:

KazMK

Kev F
3rd-September-2005, 06:55 PM
A move that I really want to master without ending up in a heap on the floor!!
What is the knack for not loosing your balance during a spin and also not becoming too dizzy?
I have not yet mastered the art of the double spin and when I try it I just dont seem to have enough momentum to keep the spin going.

Any advice greatfully received.

KazMK

Thought you may find this interesting....look at the 'a la seconde ' link (http://www.msu.edu/~szczep13/blog/september.htm)

May try this myself at the next freestyle...and the outfit too :flower:

Lory
5th-September-2005, 09:57 AM
May try this myself at the next freestyle...and the outfit too :flower:
Wow! :what:

I'd have time to nip to the bar if you did that many! :rofl:

(don't you think he looks a bit like Amir?)

under par
5th-September-2005, 11:46 AM
Wow! :what:

I'd have time to nip to the bar if you did that many! :rofl:

Mine's a G&T thanks :drool:


(don't you think he looks a bit like Amir?)

yes he does a bit.

I don't think that outfit would suit me though!! :whistle:

JoC
10th-September-2005, 08:11 PM
look at the 'a la seconde ' link (http://www.msu.edu/~szczep13/blog/september.htm)
Was just about to report that I managed a couple of pretty darn good double spins at home this evening :clap: , spotting helped, but then I couldn't do it more than twice and I looked at the link above, don't know whether to laugh or cry at myself. Think I'll :rofl: .

KatieR
11th-September-2005, 10:08 PM
Was just about to report that I managed a couple of pretty darn good double spins at home this evening :clap: , spotting helped, but then I couldn't do it more than twice and I looked at the link above, don't know whether to laugh or cry at myself. Think I'll :rofl: .

Are you spinning in both directions? Otherwise you will get very dizzy and probably fall over! Each time you spin, stop and then spin back in the other direction, effectively unwinding yourself. I can go for about 20 minutes before I have to stop for a breather!

Trish
12th-September-2005, 05:10 PM
Make sure that you can *really* dance a single spin:

Do a single spin -- but just let the rotation finish -- DO NOT STEP BACK]


Useful questions:

Are you still on the same spot that you started?
Are you still "on-balance"?
Did you HAVE to step back?
Are your feet close together?


If you can't stay "on-balance" for a single spin -- then you will start to "fall" out of a double :)
And of course you shouldn't step back (out of the spin) unless the leader leads it.

SpinDr.

I think I'll try that one. Interesting - I don't know the answer!

I can do double spins, although they're never as fast as I'd like. Someone told me this is to do with not spotting, but I can't turn my head that quickly. I'm going to go and have some physio on my shoulder soon though so with any luck that'll loosen it up and will improve my spinning!

KatieR
12th-September-2005, 06:38 PM
I think I'll try that one. Interesting - I don't know the answer!

I can do double spins, although they're never as fast as I'd like. Someone told me this is to do with not spotting, but I can't turn my head that quickly. I'm going to go and have some physio on my shoulder soon though so with any luck that'll loosen it up and will improve my spinning!

I can still do pretty good double spins quite fast with spotting, but I have a feeling I only spot when I start and when I finish the spin... will have to make a note to actually pay attention to what I do when I am spinning!

jockey
12th-September-2005, 11:40 PM
B4 I took up MJ I was a club/discodancer (quasi Michael Jackson) and I learnt how to "manspin" on the disco dancefloor. Some tips:
Shiny leather (or suede) shoes (trainers are out!);
Start by crossing over your right foot in front of the other foot and use the momentum generated by "working" the feet to create a solo spin;
You can generate power from use of the arms in a manspin (which is a change of places move) by overturning out as a "set" and throwing the right (spare) arm into the spin;
A common failure is to shrug or hunch the shoulders during the move (I used to do this);
You really have to practice and its all in the way you use your arms to produce power (for the lead).
To lead a spin the trick is to delay the "whip" until the last possible moment as in a whip or golf swing - if you use excessive force early the power is dissipated by the time the follower is meant to spin.
Best move to lead a spin from - catapult.
Best spinner I ever danced with: Hannah, demonstrator ceroc Fulham Town Hall circe 2001 - 2003, Mick Wenger"s partner (bar none, and I have danced with 24 open champions). She could do about 7 and no travel!
Spotting is out of the question when fast spinning 4 or 5 spins per beat.

jockey
12th-September-2005, 11:52 PM
Interesting.... I've found myself "not bothering" with the step back on occasion - because I haven't felt the need to. Particularly in beginner's classes where a step back is often not really led. Maybe there's hope... (but will have to 'watch' the lead more)

AFA as momentum is concerned, there has to be something in the tension as well - i.e. lead needs to have something to push against to get the spin going. Intuitively, there shouldn't be more tension needed (in follow's arm) for a double spin as opposed to a single spin?
On the latter question: no more tension is required on the part of the follower (I forgot to mention the need for tension in my post on this thread) only more "whip" from the lead: when I am asking for a double I put a little more late "action" on the lead to generate a double; the follower should not have to help herself round. Really its not the followers decision as to how many spins - the lead determines the number and rate of spins. What I am looking for in a doublespin is doubleSPEED. That is two spins in one beat, of course.

KatieR
13th-September-2005, 08:58 AM
Spotting is out of the question when fast spinning 4 or 5 spins per beat.

Are you refering to free spins?? I would truly like to see someone to 5 or more free spins in one go.

I did a really nice triple free spin last night and on reflection have found that I still spot to a degree but only very briefly to know which way my partner is facing. Top turn spins... I always spot, The most I have done is about 7 with Clayton and may Allah be merciful if I DONT spot! I find spotting also allows me to spin a lot faster and I feel that I am quite a fast spinner (I have been told of this by a few people) maybe not as fast as others, but also I noticed last night that I am able to control the speed of my spin which is another little breakthrough I seem to have had.

I think that beginners should be taught to spot and then when they can execute the spin completely controlled, then make the decision whether to spot or not... usually its a natural progression as the person improves.

Rachel
13th-September-2005, 11:01 AM
Are you refering to free spins?? I would truly like to see someone to 5 or more free spins in one go.

I did a really nice triple free spin last night and on reflection have found that I still spot to a degree but only very briefly to know which way my partner is facing. Top turn spins... I always spot, The most I have done is about 7 with Clayton and may Allah be merciful if I DONT spot! I find spotting also allows me to spin a lot faster and I feel that I am quite a fast spinner (I have been told of this by a few people) maybe not as fast as others, but also I noticed last night that I am able to control the speed of my spin which is another little breakthrough I seem to have had.

I think that beginners should be taught to spot and then when they can execute the spin completely controlled, then make the decision whether to spot or not... usually its a natural progression as the person improves. Very much agree with you Katie! Though I think it's possible to do 4 or more free spins with really slippery shoes on a good floor … and a lot of luck!!!

Jockey – you do raise some very good points, and I agree a lot. Sorry, I’m being too lazy/busy to quote all your post …. But re couple of things you mention – personally speaking, of course –

As Katie says, I don’t think spotting is out of the question for 4 or 5 spins. In fact, I think that the more spins you do, the more vital it is to spot. I’m very lazy about spotting for 1 or 2 spins, but have to do it when I try to do more.

Another thing which I have actually mentioned before on the forum, a long while ago (Trampy and I disagreed on this!) – I really don’t believe it’s up to the lead to determine how many spins the follower does. In fact, one of my pet hates is when the guy says, ‘now do a triple’ and they shove you really hard, so you’ve no hope of staying on balance.

I think it’s very much the follower who decides how many spins she does – she’s the one who determines the speed and momentum for the spins with her body/arms/head - and a more forceful lead is not going to help with this.

Spinning is almost purely about balance and nothing else. Watching people in classes/workshops, the commonest fault is that the ‘trailing’ leg is lifted out to the side, which, inevitably, throws you off balance. And when trying double spins, people think they need twice as much force – you don’t.

People energetically throw themselves into big spins with wild arms and legs, so can’t stay upright long enough to do more than one. If you’re perfectly balanced after one spin, just hold that position, whip your head round again, and usually that’s all that’s needed for you to make it round for a double.

Rachel

Lou
13th-September-2005, 11:31 AM
I think it’s very much the follower who decides how many spins she does – she’s the one who determines the speed and momentum for the spins with her body/arms/head - and a more forceful lead is not going to help with this. :yeah: :clap: (And your spins are so graceful! :) )

KatieR
13th-September-2005, 11:54 AM
Another thing which I have actually mentioned before on the forum, a long while ago (Trampy and I disagreed on this!) – I really don’t believe it’s up to the lead to determine how many spins the follower does. In fact, one of my pet hates is when the guy says, ‘now do a triple’ and they shove you really hard, so you’ve no hope of staying on balance.

I think it’s very much the follower who decides how many spins she does – she’s the one who determines the speed and momentum for the spins with her body/arms/head - and a more forceful lead is not going to help with this.

Spinning is almost purely about balance and nothing else. Watching people in classes/workshops, the commonest fault is that the ‘trailing’ leg is lifted out to the side, which, inevitably, throws you off balance. And when trying double spins, people think they need twice as much force – you don’t.

People energetically throw themselves into big spins with wild arms and legs, so can’t stay upright long enough to do more than one. If you’re perfectly balanced after one spin, just hold that position, whip your head round again, and usually that’s all that’s needed for you to make it round for a double.

Rachel

Absolutely Positively!

Depending on the move you are doing, I believe I can decide as to how many spins I want to do... some moves call for more than one spin. It also depends on the music.. if its a really nice piece of slow tango style music I will slow my spins right down and really work them! I hate it when guys push really hard and expect you to spin like a dervish. Thats when I usually do a single and then laugh.

With my feet, the foot that Im not spinning on stays very close to the foot I am spinning on, so to keep very good balance and my arms usually go on my hips.

carolinemcewan
13th-September-2005, 12:04 PM
I just fall over. Every time I want to practise while dancing I tell the guy and it's just turned into a 'how often can caroline fall over game'. Funny :rofl: ...most of the time, but in heels it can hurt too! I WILL MASTER THE DOUBLE SPIN, I WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! :clap:

Rachel
13th-September-2005, 12:35 PM
... .... (bar none, and I have danced with 24 open champions). .... I've just read this thread from the start - I know, I know, should have done that first, really. Apologies to David Franklin and everyone else who had already posted what I was trying to say!

Anyway, just picked up on this comment above that I hadn't noticed before. Sorry, Jockey - I'm honestly not wishing to be critical, it just made me laugh! Do you actually count up the number of champion partners you have danced with? Mark a notch on your bedpost each time?? :wink:
R. x

timbp
13th-September-2005, 12:49 PM
Depending on the move you are doing, I believe I can decide as to how many spins I want to do... some moves call for more than one spin. It also depends on the music.. if its a really nice piece of slow tango style music I will slow my spins right down and really work them! I hate it when guys push really hard and expect you to spin like a dervish. Thats when I usually do a single and then laugh.

Where, when do you dance? I hope you're somewhere near Sydney (you call yourself "Aussie firecracker") as I want to dance with you.

One place I dance has several women who can spin, and spin, and spin. Sometimes I think I should lead one of them onto the dance floor, lead a spin, then go and sit down, just getting up at the end of the song to finish with a dip. One time I did the lightest spin lead I could -- the woman did four spins, then complained to me at the end of the dance that I didn't lead spins strongly enough.

In contrast, a month ago I danced with someone I hadn't seen all year (because we normally dance in different places). what a revelation! whenever I led a spin, however many spins she did was irrelevant to me -- on every occasion, when I expected her to stop spinning was when she stopped spinning. Either we both listened to the music the same way, or she responded immediately to whatever indication I gave that I wanted to dance together again. In either case, I learned that I don't need to take a book to dancing to give me something to do while the girl spins. (And I changed where I do most of my dancing.)

David Franklin
13th-September-2005, 01:05 PM
Spotting is out of the question when fast spinning 4 or 5 spins per beat.
Are you refering to free spins?? I would truly like to see someone to 5 or more free spins in one go.The issue isn't really the spin is 'free', it's the 4-5 spins per beat that makes spotting near impossible. (In practical terms, all the really fast spins I've seen have been free spins). As far as seeing more than 4 free spins, the clip (http://media.abt.org/qtime/pirouette.second.mov) posted earlier has someone doing nearly 20 (if you consider fouette turns acceptable free spins).

Speaking of Hannah, I've seen her teach spinning with Mick. Most interesting was when Mick really went for it and overcooked it, sending her off balance. Hannah did about 12 spins, though she wobbled slightly and travelled a bit. The point being, if you ask someone "how to spin", all the advice will be about how to avoid getting off-balance in the first place. I can't remember where I saw it, but apparently a study has shown really good spinners are amazingly good at correcting for being spun off axis (at speed). Most people can't compensate unless the spin is much too slow for dancing. Of course, when people with that skill teach spinning, it's not always transferrable to mere mortals. How much the actual correction ability is a learnable skill I don't know.

As for lead spins, I can generally lead a good spinner through a high number of spins (30?) if there's space to allow a bit of travelling; I find avoiding them travelling really hard though.

KatieR
14th-September-2005, 12:59 PM
Where, when do you dance? I hope you're somewhere near Sydney (you call yourself "Aussie firecracker") as I want to dance with you.



Im in the UK at the moment :D But will be heading back for a bit in February!

I love to spin, and occassionally get carried away, and get a strange look from guys who go to catch my hand and I just keep spinning :D But I still have every respect and acceptance for guys that dont want to spin me as much. I think as a person progresses in their dancing they find certain things that they really enjoy doing and are good at... I think my two are spins and drops. But at the end of the day, us ladies are still followers and must do the moves we are lead (unless they miss a really good break!)

KatieR
14th-September-2005, 01:02 PM
clip (http://media.abt.org/qtime/pirouette.second.mov) posted earlier has someone doing nearly 20 (if you consider fouette turns acceptable free spins).
.

I class a free spin as a completely unassisted spin (look Ma, no hands!!)... the guy completely lets go and the lady just spins. I class a top turn spin (a name I gave it, not a legitimate actual Ceroc name) is a spin where the guy holds one of the lady's hands pretty much above her head and spins her. A girl can do a lot more of these relatively easier than a completely free spin.

David Franklin
14th-September-2005, 01:55 PM
I class a free spin as a completely unassisted spin (look Ma, no hands!!)... the guy completely lets go and the lady just spins.That doesn't really define the "spin" part of things though. For example, most people find it easy to an unlimited number of "penguin walk spins". You essentially use one foot as a pivot point and walk the other foot round in a circle (deweighting the pivot foot to make it easier to pivot). It's very simple and easy to control. But it's very pedestrian, and I don't think many would consider it a free spin.

(It probably doesn't help, but that's more or less what I'm doing in my avatar).

timbp
15th-September-2005, 02:14 AM
(unless they miss a really good break!)
that's one thing I'm good at :rofl:

CeeCee
15th-September-2005, 09:11 AM
When I picked up on the fact that some men think it's fantastic to have a partner who can do multiple spins I gave it a try - without much initial success...

I take heart from what Carol Haines said at a style workshop earlier this year: 'I don't do double spins - they only get one, but I make it a good one'.

I remember Carol saying this at her Ladies styling workshop at Bognor in January and her comment caused quite a stir.

I've noticed that not everyone is comfortable doing multiple spins so why get stressed? Whatever you do, do it well.

I believe that a beautifully executed single, graceful, stylish, well balanced single spin is a joy to behold.

Lory
15th-September-2005, 10:20 AM
I believe that a beautifully executed single, graceful, stylish, well balanced single spin is a joy to behold.
:yeah: I've witnessed a certain dancing flop idol, that 'forces' an extraordinary number of dodgy spins out :what: :sick: ... this is where the saying 'less is more' definitely comes into play! :whistle: :wink:

TiggsTours
15th-September-2005, 11:03 AM
I love it when people double (triple, quad,...) spin provided they come to face and resume the dance in time with the music. If the spin stops just after the (half)beat it can be annoying to say the least.
Different people have different opinions. I don't like it when I see a girl doing mulitple spins as, more often than not, the guy is left standing there looking like a lemon, waiting for her to stop showing off! There are very few guys who can look good, while a girl does her 16 perfect spins on the spot (saw Nina do this once on carpet, wearing socks!). As dancing is a partnership, personally I'd rather the guy stayed involved the whole way through, so I've never bothered with multiple spins. I know I can do 3 spins, and one guy got about 8 turns out of me once, just can't be bothered!

Guess what I'm saying is, don't stress about it, if you really want to do it, great! If you're trying so hard because you think you have to in order to be a good dancer, don't, its really not that important.

jockey
16th-September-2005, 10:01 PM
I've just read this thread from the start - I know, I know, should have done that first, really. Apologies to David Franklin and everyone else who had already posted what I was trying to say!

Anyway, just picked up on this comment above that I hadn't noticed before. Sorry, Jockey - I'm honestly not wishing to be critical, it just made me laugh! Do you actually count up the number of champion partners you have danced with? Mark a notch on your bedpost each time?? :wink:
R. x
Yes.
But only 23 were female - the 24th was tall, black, has a huge smile and asked me!
So only 23 on the bedpost, the other one is a secret....
:rofl:

MartinHarper
17th-September-2005, 12:14 AM
There are very few guys who can look good, while a girl does her 16 perfect spins on the spot...

True enough. It sounds like jockey would be one: he could just do the same number of spins in 4 beats, and look pointedly at his watch while she caught up... ;-)

Andreas
17th-September-2005, 01:41 PM
... the guy is left standing there looking like a lemon, waiting for her to stop showing off! There are very few guys who can look good, while a girl does her 16 perfect spins on the spot (saw Nina do this once on carpet, wearing socks!). As dancing is a partnership, personally I'd rather the guy stayed involved the whole way through, so I've never bothered with multiple spins. I know I can do 3 spins, and one guy got about 8 turns out of me once, just can't be bothered!

Guess what I'm saying is, don't stress about it, if you really want to do it, great! If you're trying so hard because you think you have to in order to be a good dancer, don't, its really not that important.

Excellent post!

The trouble with 'looking good' while girls spin is that not all of them (actually very few) can recover multiple spins tidily, i.e. they rely on the guy to catch them. While I too am a person who starts doing stuff when the girl spins too long I am always apprehensive of that because she could bump into people easily ...

KatieR
18th-September-2005, 12:05 PM
Excellent post!

The trouble with 'looking good' while girls spin is that not all of them (actually very few) can recover multiple spins tidily, i.e. they rely on the guy to catch them. While I too am a person who starts doing stuff when the girl spins too long I am always apprehensive of that because she could bump into people easily ...

This is true, however, we need to learn somewhere and practice somewhere. yes, it is true that a crowded dance floor is not the place to be practicing spins when you are all over the shop and still not able to spin on one spot, but Im all for practicing spins when I have some space. I do though, sometimes mention to the guy that if they dont mind, I would like to practice a few double/triple spins so apologise if it gets a little messy.