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the what if kid
29th-December-2002, 06:05 PM
Being 38 years young and having now been addicted to Ceroc for well over a year now, i look back and wish that i had discovered it years ago ( in me youff )!

It has done so much to improve my social life, my confidence, my level of fitness and generally made me a happier person.

So my question is............ is Ceroc promoted to and attracting the student population ??

Are they aware of it and is it considered 'cred'

I often look around the dance floor but don't get the impression that it has yet caught on with this generation.

If that's the case........ why? and what needs to be done to change it ?

(i can feel some essays coming on !! )
:wink:

TheTramp
29th-December-2002, 06:11 PM
Wheeeee.

I'm really, really sure that I shouldn't be answering this thread!!!

But I probably will. I'll just save it all up for later.

Steve

Gus
29th-December-2002, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by the what if kid

So my question is............ is Ceroc promoted to and attracting the student population ??

Are they aware of it and is it considered 'cred'

I often look around the dance floor but don't get the impression that it has yet caught on with this generation.
:wink:

As with most of these questions, I don't believe there is a single all pervading answer ... BUT ....

ask yourself a question, no matter how appealing the dancestyle ... how many sub-25's are seriously going to enjoy dancing at a place where the music pre-dates their birth "..... if you play Chart music they will come, oh yes ... they will come.."

Steps back and waits to get flamed as usual.......

TheTramp
30th-December-2002, 12:39 AM
Now.

Come on Gus.

Who'd flame you??? :rolleyes:

Steve

Lindsay
30th-December-2002, 10:52 AM
A wee point of interest... The Edinburgh University Swing Dance Society (plays music mainly from the 40s) has > 100 active members.....

But anyway, Ceroc plays loads of pop- maybe they should promote it more at freshers week, etc.?

DavidB
30th-December-2002, 11:10 AM
Lots of universities have very popular Ballroom dance clubs. Many also have Swing Dance clubs - sometimes part of the Ballroom club, and sometimes completely independent.

I know they teach Leroc at Bristol University, but don't know about any others.

I don't know what ballroom teachers think of Modern Jive - I suspect it is not held in high regard as a dance, but most would like its popularity. I would imagine that an approach to the social side of one of the university clubs would go down well. The competitive side might not be that interested.

David

Jayne
30th-December-2002, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Gus
ask yourself a question, no matter how appealing the dancestyle ... how many sub-25's are seriously going to enjoy dancing at a place where the music pre-dates their birth "..... if you play Chart music they will come, oh yes ... they will come.."

Steps back and waits to get flamed as usual....... errm, so what does that say about me Gus??? :reallymad :devil: :wink:

Couple of points:

Vegas nights are thriving in Scotland at the moment (www.vegasscotland.com) - they play swing music and attract a large audience of under 25s so you don't necessarily need to restrict yourself to club music to capture that age group.

When I was at Nottingham Uni the Latin & Ballroom society was the largest non-athletics-union society at the Uni (i can't remember how many members we had, but it was in the hundreds)

I guess the main reason for lack of students is ignorance. Plenty of people my age will take up salsa because they know about it and it's perceived as being sexy. But jive I guess is still viewed as part of the Ballroom bracket....

Jayne
:nice:

Ronde!
30th-December-2002, 01:56 PM
Ceroc is *wildly* popular with "youngsters" here in Canberra! At 26, I'm older than about a quarter of the class, which is comprised of mainly IT professionals (40%), public servants (20%), and Uni students. :) I myself had my first Ceroc lessons back, back, back in the Summer of '96... but didn't take it up properly until this year.

To dispel any notions that modern music would attract more students... the most popular songs here, even with the uni students, are the very sexy "bluesy" numbers, like Peggy Lee's "Fever" (swooon! screeeeam!). When that song comes on, there might be less than a dozen people not dancing in a class of 70-odd, and then only because they got knackered by Ricky Martin's "She Bangs" a couple of songs before. ;)

Jayne
30th-December-2002, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Ronde!
Ceroc is *wildly* popular with "youngsters" here in Canberra! At 26, I'm older than about a quarter of the class,

So what was Canberra's secret in attracting "youngsters"? Was there a plan or did it happen by accident?

(She asks whilst quietly chuckling to herself...)

Jayne
:nice:

Ronde!
30th-December-2002, 02:19 PM
Well, I guess it helps that our Ceroc venue is over the road from my Alma Mater, the Australian National University. :)

Ceroc has a stand at most Uni Commencement Weeks each year; and word of mouth tends to bring new people in all year long. The uni students make the classes a lot more fun, they don't take themselves or each other too seriously; but we do have a rule that eveyone's allowed to have all the fun in the world, unless a dip or drop is being taught, then it's serious time.

Then it's back to melodramatic Fountain Breaks and the famous First Move Giggle. :)

TheTramp
30th-December-2002, 02:41 PM
I'd just like to start by pointing out that this isn't a flame. Merely a reasoned response to the points put forward previously. :rolleyes: Honest!! :D

how many sub-25's are seriously going to enjoy dancing at a place where the music pre-dates their birth "..... if you play Chart music they will come, oh yes ... they will comeWell, this has been the grand plan adopted by Ceroc (in Central London) for the last few years. (In addition to the music, they also insist on the teachers meeting the young and fit and good-looking category, because young people wouldn't want to be taught by anyone who wasn't like that!!).

On a personal level, I really don't think that this works that well. Yes, it is vital to bring in new blood to dancing, and yes, it's better if that new blood is young, as you're more likely to get more years of dancing out of young people before they wear out.

However, most of the people who dance that I know, and this certainly includes myself, would prefer a good mix of music across as many different styles as possible, rather than just the same sort of thing all night. At one night I go to occasionally, the same club tunes are played all night, and it's the place that I hear more people complain about the music than any other.

Some of the best attended nights that I know of (you know, the one where you just can't fit any more people into the buildings), are Adam's night at St.Albans, Annalisa's night in Guildford, Katy's night in Guildford - at all of these, a good mix of new, and older tracks are played- and all of these have just as many young people attending as any other venues I've ever seen.

Lets face it. Realistically, if young people want to dance to club-type music, they'll be going to nightclubs and jumping around, waving their hands aimlessly in the air. They don't want to come to learn partner dancing, no matter what type of music you play. If you get younger people coming to do modern jive, then they are as likely to enjoy 'older' music as much as the newer, club tracks.

Getting off just the subject of the music, and back to the original question though, I think that the promoting of modern jive is probably not aimed well enough at the 18-25 generation in order to bring them in. Is there any advertising done that is aimed specifically in this area? How would you do it anyhow? If 18-25 year olds don't know about it, then they won't be coming....

Having stands at Freshers weeks at uni's would be great. However, since it tends to be the students who do those, you'd have to recruit students to organise it, and I'm not sure how the whole Franchise thing would work within ceroc - although, as DavidB says, with the LeRoc name, it works down in Bristol.

Apart from that, maybe you could just kipnap a few as they walk down the street - or possibly breed or clone them??

I think I'll shut up now! :D

Steve

Graham
30th-December-2002, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Jayne
errm, so what does that say about me Gus??? :reallymad :devil: :wink:
Given one of your five things, it probably means you'd dance to a track consisting of a couple of samples and a drum machine! Hang on - that would be club music!! :wink: :devil:

I agree, though, that (in my opinion) it's not primarily the music that stops this age group attending (although I am distinctly unqualified to speak for them!).

Jayne
30th-December-2002, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by Graham
Given one of your five things, it probably means you'd dance to a track consisting of a couple of samples and a drum machine! Hang on - that would be club music!! :wink: :devil:



Am I THAT transparent???

Jayne
:what:

Dance Demon
30th-December-2002, 03:08 PM
how many sub-25s are going to enjoy dancing to music that pre-dates their birth

If you consider that a large amount of current chart music is either a straight cover or a rehash of tunes that came out of the 60s & 70s then they are already dancing to music that pre dates their birth, or are students predominently over 30 these days?:confused: :devil: :devil:

Gus
30th-December-2002, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Dance Demon


If you consider that a large amount of current chart music is either a straight cover or a rehash of tunes that came out of the 60s & 70s then they are already dancing to music that pre dates their birth, or are students predominently over 30 these days?:confused: :devil: :devil:

Arhhhh ... but its the BEAT that counts ... and that what much of the re-hashes do...

I DIDNT say that it all had to be chart music ... but if you listen to the dancable tracks that hit the top 40, much of it is very danceable ..... the trick is to get youngsters to realise that the muic isn't all Franck Sinatra and the Tractors .......

point in question, Ceroc Nantwich probably has about 15 dancers under 25 and they play a lot of club music ..... how many have your clubs got.....:wink:

TheTramp
30th-December-2002, 03:21 PM
Ceroc Nantwich probably has about 15 dancers under 25 and they play a lot of club musicAnd how many over 25 then???

I think the point might be that there are a wide variety of ages and tastes at all venues, and it would be nice to try to cover all tastes (ie, a wide range of music).

I enjoy dancing blues. I enjoy dancing to swing tracks. And I also enjoy dancing to the newer, clubbier tracks. I wouldn't want to go to a night that is entirely swing and blues music either (well, not all the time anyhoo).

Steve

Graham
30th-December-2002, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Gus

point in question, Ceroc Nantwich probably has about 15 dancers under 25 and they play a lot of club music ..... how many have your clubs got.....:wink:
I'm guessing that this would be about 10% of the membership? Presumably "a lot" of club music is more than 10%? Isn't this a bit unfair on anyone who likes some other kind of music?

Lou
30th-December-2002, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp Having stands at Freshers weeks at uni's would be great. However, since it tends to be the students who do those, you'd have to recruit students to organise it, and I'm not sure how the whole Franchise thing would work within ceroc - although, as DavidB says, with the LeRoc name, it works down in Bristol. [/B]
Yup - we have 2 LeRoc classes at Bristol Uni. Both, strangely enough, on a Thursday night. One is run by the Student Union's LeRoc Society. The other is run by the Sports Department of the University as a kind of keep-fit class. (Please don't ask why both are on the same night).
Bath CEROC used a sports club venue owned by Bath Uni for their nights, but their age range was pretty typical across the board & usual class fare! :grin:

Ronde!
30th-December-2002, 09:53 PM
I think most of our "young'uns" (and I still count myself in that group!) enjoy Ceroc for the way it hearkens back to an era of romance and style. Sure, when we go clubbing, we're now thrilled at the sight of an empty dance floor; but we all don't take ourselves seriously enough not to enjoy a wide variety of music.

I can't think of a single person at our Ceroc classes that would prefer more club music to what's currently played (we do play some club tracks, like Darude's "Sandstorm"; and Sash! is quite popular). Most of us do more than one style of dance - I myself go to Salsa, Merengue and Argentine Tango classes with various young Ceroc friends - and none of these has any scope at all for club music.

Our fantastic franchise owner, Nitzan, even breaks out of Ceroc mode for some dance parties to teach us a class line dance routine. :) So far we've all learned a slinky jazz number, and another to Madonna's "Vogue".

For me, variety and style counts more than fashion, but that's just my opinion. :)

Live passionately,

DavidB
30th-December-2002, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by Ronde!
...and another to Madonna's "Vogue"...Did you know that the Macarena was based on the Madonna's dancing in Vogue?

Brady
31st-December-2002, 12:37 AM
This is quite an interesting thread, especially being one of the younger ones at the Glasgow venues. To answer Gus' question, I would estimate no more than 6-8 under 25's at a Wed. night in Glasgow, which normally must have 150+ in attendance. Strangely enough, the night is also held in the Glasgow Uni. Union where many of the students hang out in the evening. On a regular night there are countless students that pop their head in to see what's happenin'. Even though the Wed. night is a pretty social night with a great atmosphere, they still turn away. We've also had many students come for one night, never to return. I really think a lot of this is due to the current crowd that attends CEROC and the youngsters don't feel like they "fit in". Perhaps a couple open nights for students only would get some of them hooked and if enough, why not have a student (or to some age limit) night just for them (no offense to any of you aged youngsters!).

Here in the states, I started dancing at uni., where dance classes (lindy, west coast, ballroom, jazz, etc.) constantly had a waiting list, with the age range between 18-26. I just went to a weekend workshop here (in the US) a couple weeks ago and at least 1/5 of the people attending were younger than 25, and enrolled in everything from west coast, latin, lindy, balboa, and hip hop.

Dance Demon
31st-December-2002, 12:48 AM
Possibly one of the problems in attracting students is the cost of attending. The majority of students (my son included) don't have a lot of cash to spare, and the 5 it costs to go to a ceroc night converts into 4 or 5 pints on a cheap night at the students union.
I don't know if any Ceroc franchise runs a concessions scheme for students, but it may be worty thinking about:cheers:

Ronde!
31st-December-2002, 01:29 AM
Our Ceroc class does have student concessions; I've forgotten the casual rate, but a six-class ticket costs me AU$55 (less than 20 pounds) and costs a student AU$44 (about 15 pounds).

The exceptions are our official Dance Parties, with a cover charge of AU$5 for all (about 2 pounds!) I would say that price would be a major factor in attracting students: I first tried Ceroc as a student, but only attended 4 classes or so... I couldn't afford regular lessons at the time!

Prices are kept fairly low because the venue and setup are low-cost (it's run at a local Worker's Club); the lighting setup is just two portable Par-Can 60's with motorised colour diffractors; the audio setup is decent (proper amps and speakers, but sourced from MiniDisc). With low overheads and solid turnouts (at least 60-70 people most nights) the franchise seems quite successful!

The major thing going for Ceroc over other dance styles is the informal learning structure. Students often have unpredictable workloads - being able to turn up to any lesson (instead of, say, having to turn up to ten lessons in successive weeks) is a huge plus! The students are noticeably absent before exam periods, but they come back afterwards. :)

Live passionately,

Gus
1st-January-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Graham

I'm guessing that this would be about 10% of the membership? Presumably "a lot" of club music is more than 10%? Isn't this a bit unfair on anyone who likes some other kind of music?

Having spent some time to read PROPERLY the comments made re 'club music' ... I think part of the problem is that there is a huge misconception about what club/chart music is....

When I talk about this type of music I mean the type of traxs you get played at your local 'disco' rather than hard dance club. Club traxs like Bloxter "you shoulkd be dancing" are a great example ... heavy club beat but effectively a rework of a 70's disco classic. In fact, a lot of succesfull club traxs are what I categorose as 2K Disco ... i.e. using a 70sDisco feel with a more defined beat ... making them ideal for Ceroc.

The curent predominance of R&B has to be excluded ... for the most part ots far too slow for most dancers .... so the balance of the music is extremely cerocable.

What the 'younger' set don't like is the middle of the road trash that gets played all over the place .... the "well its by Sinatra or some famous Swing band so it must be good" ... thats the style of music that is guarunteed to keep them away in droves!

Coming back to Grahams valid observation ... surprisingly, a lot of my 'older set' ... i.e. MY AGE group ... are really into the dance traxs. The top crew at Nantwich are in their mid-40s but give me a really hard time if I start playing more than a few tracks from the Swing/Mowtown era.... and they are not alone. May I venture ... and plesae flame if I'm wrong, but because there is a real absence of good club music played in Scotland you've not had much opporunity to enjoy this diverse and rich music field
:wink:

NB I am NOT advocating that modern chart/club music is the Holy Grail ... just that it is seen in many quarters as the poor relation to Modern Jive music ....

TheTramp
1st-January-2003, 04:34 PM
Hmmm. Having chatted to a couple of people last night (who were criticising the music), I think that one of the problems is that a lot of people are not willing to accept that their personal choice of music isn't the right one (and this is a generalization, and is directed at the two people last night, rather than anybody specifically).

The DJ played 2 bluesy type tracks in a row, one of which I'd requested (:D), and as I came off the dance floor after the second, a gentleman who I know slightly, remarked to me that he didn't understand why they played 'all this blues', when 'people' didn't like it.

I pointed out that the dancefloor had been pretty full for the last two tracks (as the back of one of my legs would attest to), and the pointed out that for a large number of tracks up to those 2 blues ones, it had been very definitely pop/chart music (the sort of things he wanted) - which he agreed to. And he then (reluctantly) agreed that maybe people who wanted other types of music should be allowed their choices too.

It does seem to me that people get tracks they like 9 times in a row, then get a track they don't like, and start complaining about the music. I was discussing this with Coralie who runs a few venues in the Oxford area, and she agreed.

It's a shame that there can't be a little more give-and-take from the people who dance - lets face it, very few people dance every track of an evening anyhow, so take the tracks you don't like as an opportunity to go ge that drink, change the t-shirt etc. that you would be doing, and be grateful that you're not missing out on a song that you like while you're doing it.

I'm starting to ramble, so I'll shut up now.... :D

Steve

Gus
1st-January-2003, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Hmmm. Having chatted to a couple of people last night (who were criticising the music), I think that one of the problems is that a lot of people are not willing to accept that their personal choice of music isn't the right one Steve

Welcome to the wonderfull world of Ceroc! I've played a number of gigs where I've been critisised for playing too much and too little swing ... on the same night! Rule 1 (after the rule that states that women are ALWAYS right) is that dance punters tend to want music that THEY want to listen to ... even if they never actualy tell you what it is they want and it can change from week to week ...... sorry , also starting to ramble...

TheTramp
1st-January-2003, 07:53 PM
While I was talking to Coralie last night, I suggested that the only way out of it, was to tell the person complaining, that next week, they were to provide a playlist. And also that all the people complaining about the music that night would be directed straight to them :D

Steve

Graham
2nd-January-2003, 03:08 PM
I think Steve is right - a lot of time people complaining are really just being a bit intolerant. However, I think that one thing which is perhaps a little overlooked is the order of the tracks. Let's say I've danced a couple of energetic tracks, and go off for a rest/drink, missing track 3 altogether. I miss the beginning of track 4, so sit out, searching for my next victim. Track 5 starts, and it's one I don't like, so I decide to sit it out again: I've now missed 3 tracks, and odds are my chosen partner has been grabbed as well! If this happens a couple more times in the evening then I'm starting to think that the DJ's playing too much stuff I don't like, even though in reality there may only have been 3 or 4 of these tracks. Of course, if he'd played them while I was off changing my shirt I wouldn't even have noticed them.

I take Gus's point about lack of familiarity - this is why I'm reluctant to comment much about this type of music. However, I do have the impression that in general club tracks are quite long, so if you are dancing to one and you find it's a bit boring, or it's not really happening with your partner, then it can seem like purgatory waiting for the end. In contrast, many swing records are less than 3 minutes long, so if those are the ones you don't like at least you don't have long to wait!

TheTramp
2nd-January-2003, 03:20 PM
Ah. Well, the trick I use is to keep dancing until the DJ plays a track that I don't like, and then change/drink quickly to make sure I don't miss the next track!

It's a little much to ask the DJ to notice when I'm about to change my shirt, and play The Mavericks or Shania then!! :rolleyes:

Steve

Graham
2nd-January-2003, 03:38 PM
Surely these demigods of the amplifiers could manage that?? :wink:

I was just making the point that most people end up sitting out tracks for reasons other than not liking them, so if you're all set to get back up on the floor and one of your no-no tracks comes on you notice it more.

DavidB
2nd-January-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Graham
However, I do have the impression that in general club tracks are quite long, so if you are dancing to one and you find it's a bit boring, or it's not really happening with your partner, then it can seem like purgatory waiting for the end.It is pretty rare that a jive DJ will play the long version of any song. Singles generally include a short 'radio edit' version that is about 4 minutes, and compilation albums usually have this version. It might not seem like it when you are dancing - the tracks you like never seem to last long enough, and the ones you dislike last forever! But you will only manage 30 or so moves in both songs.

I make things easy for myself - if I don't like the music, I usually don't ask anyone to dance. If it is a track I like, and there is no-one to dance with (anyone been to the Casbah lately - too many men, no ladies!!), then I'll just enjoy listening to it. And if I get asked I always say yes. I wouldn't mind if it was a metronome playing!

David

Graham
2nd-January-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
It is pretty rare that a jive DJ will play the long version of any song. Singles generally include a short 'radio edit' version that is about 4 minutes, and compilation albums usually have this version. It might not seem like it when you are dancing - the tracks you like never seem to last long enough, and the ones you dislike last forever! But you will only manage 30 or so moves in both songs.
Good point - I agree it's rare. But what I'm getting at with both this and the track order thing is that I think it can be very small/rare things (DJ putting on the longer version so he can go to the toilet, or playing the wrong single track by mistake) which end up colouring people's view of the whole evening.

Groovechic
6th-January-2003, 03:16 PM
As a mature student myself - not even under 35 - I save 1 at classes during the week or go after 9.15pm. There is no discount for students at end of month party nights.

As regards the music, I agree with Gus, play current chart music and you will attract younger folk. However, I couldn't tell you the last time (either in Edinburgh or Glasgow) I heard Fragma, ATB, Delirium, D'Ream, PPK, N-Trance or even Chicane. All I seem to hear is music for swing, jive or the all time favourite "Boogie, Woogie Company B". This is just so, so dire. There are, after all, classes for swing, jive, salsa etc that people can go to if they like that type of music. Why don't you just play more chart music and, hopefully, Ceroc would then be associated with upbeat modern tempos for the younger movers and shakers?

Have a very prosperous 2003.

fae Groovechic :kiss:

Dance Demon
6th-January-2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Groovechic
. There are, after all, classes for swing, jive, salsa etc that people can go to if they like that type of music.
fae Groovechic :kiss:

There are also loads of clubs ,discos, bars etc that play nothing but Fragma, D.Ream Sash, and other techno style music. A lot of people go to Ceroc because thet want to Jive. I often get bored with the playing of tracks such as the dance version of Celine Dion's Titanic song, however if this style of music is played with a good mix of swing and blues it makes for an interesting nights dancing. :wink: :devil:

Ronde!
6th-January-2003, 08:46 PM
I should point out that I'm not necessarily endorsing the merits of dance music as a genre. But if any of the DJs are interested in acquiring some suitable club/dance music, this list could be used as a starting point to some popular stuff

110BPM - Roger Sanchez - Last Night A DJ Saved My Life - (minimal dance track, some might find this boring)
118BPM - Daft Punk - Around The World - (quite a long track, and very repetitive)
120BPM - Madonna - Music - (well-known, interesting and funky)
122BPM - Jamiroquai - Little L - (quite enjoy dancing to this one)
123BPM - Daft Punk - One More Time - (Catchy beat, slightly repetitive)
123BPM - Paulmac - Just The Thing - (oooh, yeah! Blues fans will love this dance track)
123BPM - Spiller - Groovejet - (Very popular track at class)
125BPM - Disco Montego - Beautiful - (Aaaawesome, I love this one!)
126BPM - Modjo - Lady - (This one's not bad, quite a catchy beat)
127BPM - Disco Montego - We Got Love - (Not bad)
128BPM - Jamiroquai - Canned Heat - (Funky and catchy, nice laid-back beat)
128BPM - Mademoiselle - Do You Love Me - (Some might find this repetitive, but somehow rather catchy)
128BPM - Planet Funk - Chase The Sun - (I love this song)
128BPM - Superman Lovers - Starlight - (Nice upbeat number, good vibes)
129BPM - Jamiroquai - Love Foolosophy - (Pretty cool funk track)
130BPM - Amber - Move Your Body - (Average bit of Techno)
130BPM - Jean Jacques Smoothie - 2 People - (Interesting... something a bit different)
130BPM - Kosheen - Catch - (Decent)
130BPM - Milky - Just The Way You Are - (Upbeat and catchy)
130BPM - Roger Sanchez - Another Chance - (Look out, some versions accelerate! Smooth tune)
131BPM - Real Life - Send Me An Angel Techno Remix - (Nostalgic and rockin' I'd dance to this if it was ever played)
132BPM - ATC - Around The World - (Decent Techno track)
132BPM - ATC - My Heart Beats Like A Drum - (Very similar to above track, don't play them in the same night!)
132BPM - Da Buzz - Let Me Love You Tonight - (Eurodance, a-la "Steps" - good fun)
132BPM - Sash! ft Kylie - Breathe - (It's Sash, what can I say, everything Sash! is wonderfully Cerocable)
133BPM - Sash! - Ecuador - (Best known Sash! song)
135BPM - Daniel Bedingfield - Gotta Get Through This - (Strong beat, minimalist)
135BPM - Riva ft Dannii - Stringer/Who Do You Love Now (Classic dance track, fast enough for some spectacular moves)
135BPM - Sash! - Encore Une Fois - (It's Sash, and therefore cool)
135BPM - Sash! - Stay - (See above)
135BPM - Sash! ft Tina - Mysterious Times (Ditto)
136BPM - 0 and Below - Reality (Decent Club track)
136BPM - Darude - Sandstorm - (Great Club/Trance number, I can really tear up the dance floor to this. :))
136BPM - Sash! - Adelante (See other Sash! comments)
136BPM - Sash! - La Primavera - (Ditto)
138BPM - Alcazar - Crying At The Discotheque - (Funky dance number, not repetitive - could be popular)
138BPM - Sash! - Show Me the Right Way
138BPM - Sash! - Together Again
140BPM - Lasgo - Alone - (Pop-club, decent)
140BPM - Lasgo - Something - (Nice tempo changes; not repetitive, I like this one)
141BPM - Moby - Everytime You Touch Me - (Dance with me to this and I am yours forever, LoL)
141BPM - Sash! - Ganbareh! - (The new one from Sash! More of the usual Sash cool)
144BPM - Bran Van 3000 - Astounded - (Wonderful melody, funk-dance track)
144BPM - Sonique - Sky - (I love the chorus, potentially expressive fast number)
170BPM - Kosheen - Hide U - (Challenge number. Only for warmed-up, experienced partners, or something could be torn. The top edge of Ceroc.)

Ronde!
6th-January-2003, 09:27 PM
Special mentions to some recent pop dance hits I overlooked, as they were in my "pop" collection, oops

125BPM - Madison Avenue - Don't Call Me Baby - (This rocks)
125BPM - Smash Mouth - Walking On The Sun - (I love this one)
135BPM - Dario G - Dream To Me - (Uplifting and smooth)
138BPM - DJ Sammy ft Yanou - Heaven - (Expressive and cute)
145BPM - DJ Sammy - The Boys Of Summer - (Decent)

Dance Demon
6th-January-2003, 10:43 PM
Boy! thats some list. And It's just the sort of stuff that if you get a whole night of it, it would drive you nuts. There is also a huge amount of soulful house music out there, E.G. Hed Kandi do some excellent stuff on in the Disco Kandi, Back To Love, and Nu Cool series which takes classic 70's & 80s grooves and houses them up. They would also be great to dance to, but as previously stated, if you played that kind of music all night, everyone would get fed up with it. Variety is the spice of life:wink: :wink: :devil:

the what if kid
7th-January-2003, 12:37 AM
I agree that the music played at many venues may put off many a student.

However............. ( and there is no disrespect intended here at all )........... could it be that students are also reluctant to get involved with an activity that has a participant age group that extends or even exceeds that of their parents ?

Is it a case that as students they wish to remain with their own peer activities and that it is only after leaving college / university that they will begin to venture to likes of Ceroc ?

TheTramp
7th-January-2003, 12:42 AM
What if kid ........

You mean that students are too busy drinking and shagging (least, the lucky ones!!!) to go dancing???

Probably :D

Steve

Dr. Feelgood
7th-January-2003, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by Gus


ask yourself a question, no matter how appealing the dancestyle ... how many sub-25's are seriously going to enjoy dancing at a place where the music pre-dates their birth "..... if you play Chart music they will come, oh yes ... they will come.."



In this part of the world, Scotland, Ceroc does play about 90% chart music (unfortunately) and the under 25s don't come. What is astonishing is the number of folk over 30, over 40 etc who appear to like this stuff.



Originally posted by Gus

When I talk about this type of music I mean the type of traxs you get played at your local 'disco' rather than hard dance club. Club traxs like Bloxter "you shoulkd be dancing" are a great example ... heavy club beat but effectively a rework of a 70's disco classic. In fact, a lot of succesfull club traxs are what I categorose as 2K Disco ... i.e. using a 70sDisco feel with a more defined beat ... making them ideal for Ceroc.


Why is a rehash of a 70s classic with a pounding 4 on the floor drum beat ideal for Ceroc? Bearing in mind that the dance usually danced at Ceroc is a form of jive?



Originally posted by Gus

but because there is a real absence of good club music played in Scotland you've not had much opporunity to enjoy this diverse and rich music field


diverse and rich music field? - splutter ....
... well, you've just mentioned another good thing about living in Scotland...



Originally posted by Gus

NB I am NOT advocating that modern chart/club music is the Holy Grail ... just that it is seen in many quarters as the poor relation to Modern Jive music ....



What is Modern Jive music? I thought that Modern Jive was supposed to be the dance and that the term modern was used as the justification for playing all that modern chart stuff...


Originally posted by Groovechick

As regards the music, I agree with Gus, play current chart music and you will attract younger folk. However, I couldn't tell you the last time (either in Edinburgh or Glasgow) I heard Fragma, ATB, Delirium, D'Ream, PPK, N-Trance or even Chicane. All I seem to hear is music for swing, jive or the all time favourite "Boogie, Woogie Company B". This is just so, so dire. There are, after all, classes for swing, jive, salsa etc that people can go to if they like that type of music. Why don't you just play more chart music and, hopefully, Ceroc would then be associated with upbeat modern tempos for the younger movers and shakers?


We get bombarded with chart music at Ceroc and it doesn't bring in punters. See my comments above.
"Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy" (if that's the one you mean) is a fine song although there's plenty of other good jiving music around and it would be nice to have some more variety.
You say that there are "classes for swing, jive..." Did you know that Ceroc runs jive classes? There should be little surprise then that the occasional jivey tune gets played. On what grounds do you believe that modern chart music is the correct music to play at Ceroc? When I started going to Ceroc the particular venue played predominantly 70s disco (the originals, of course)... it wasn't any more appropriate for jiving to than current chart music but at least it was good to listen to.
I'm not sure what an 'upbeat, modern tempo' is. Music of all playable speeds has always existed...

A final point - I'm all for a bit of variety in the music which is played but currently the bias is very, very firmly in favour of modern chart music. A bit more jive and swing would even things up a bit. Might even get some under 25s in cos the stuff they do play sure as hell aint bringing 'em in :wink:

:cheers:

Dr. Feelgood
7th-January-2003, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by Gus


ask yourself a question, no matter how appealing the dancestyle ... how many sub-25's are seriously going to enjoy dancing at a place where the music pre-dates their birth "..... if you play Chart music they will come, oh yes ... they will come.."



In this part of the world, Scotland, Ceroc does play about 90% chart music (unfortunately) and the under 25s don't come. What is astonishing is the number of folk over 30, over 40 etc who appear to like this stuff.



Originally posted by Gus

When I talk about this type of music I mean the type of traxs you get played at your local 'disco' rather than hard dance club. Club traxs like Bloxter "you shoulkd be dancing" are a great example ... heavy club beat but effectively a rework of a 70's disco classic. In fact, a lot of succesfull club traxs are what I categorose as 2K Disco ... i.e. using a 70sDisco feel with a more defined beat ... making them ideal for Ceroc.


Why is a rehash of a 70s classic with a pounding 4 on the floor drum beat ideal for Ceroc? Bearing in mind that the dance usually danced at Ceroc is a form of jive?



Originally posted by Gus

but because there is a real absence of good club music played in Scotland you've not had much opporunity to enjoy this diverse and rich music field


diverse and rich music field? - splutter ....
... well, you've just mentioned another good thing about living in Scotland...



Originally posted by Gus

NB I am NOT advocating that modern chart/club music is the Holy Grail ... just that it is seen in many quarters as the poor relation to Modern Jive music ....



What is Modern Jive music? I thought that Modern Jive was supposed to be the dance and that the term modern was used as the justification for playing all that modern chart stuff...


Originally posted by Groovechick

As regards the music, I agree with Gus, play current chart music and you will attract younger folk. However, I couldn't tell you the last time (either in Edinburgh or Glasgow) I heard Fragma, ATB, Delirium, D'Ream, PPK, N-Trance or even Chicane. All I seem to hear is music for swing, jive or the all time favourite "Boogie, Woogie Company B". This is just so, so dire. There are, after all, classes for swing, jive, salsa etc that people can go to if they like that type of music. Why don't you just play more chart music and, hopefully, Ceroc would then be associated with upbeat modern tempos for the younger movers and shakers?


We get bombarded with chart music at Ceroc and it doesn't bring in punters. See my comments above.
"Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy" (if that's the one you mean) is a fine song although there's plenty of other good jiving music around and it would be nice to have some more variety.
You say that there are "classes for swing, jive..." Did you know that Ceroc runs jive classes? There should be little surprise then that the occasional jivey tune gets played. On what grounds do you believe that modern chart music is the correct music to play at Ceroc? When I started going to Ceroc the particular venue played predominantly 70s disco (the originals, of course)... it wasn't any more appropriate for jiving to than current chart music but at least it was good to listen to.
I'm not sure what an 'upbeat, modern tempo' is. Music of all playable speeds has always existed...

A final point - I'm all for a bit of variety in the music which is played but currently the bias is very, very firmly in favour of modern chart music. A bit more jive and swing would even things up a bit. Might even get some under 25s in cos the stuff they do play sure as hell aint bringing 'em in :wink:

:cheers:

DavidB
7th-January-2003, 04:33 AM
Originally posted by Dr. Feelgood
What is astonishing is the number of folk over 30, over 40 etc who appear to like this stuff {chart music}Why is it astonishing? (I'm 36) The only thing I would ever be surprised to find is someone with exactly the same taste in music as me.

Why is a rehash of a 70s classic with a pounding 4 on the floor drum beat ideal for Ceroc? Bearing in mind that the dance usually danced at Ceroc is a form of jive?
snip
On what grounds do you believe that modern chart music is the correct music to play at Ceroc? When I started going to Ceroc the particular venue played predominantly 70s disco (the originals, of course)... it wasn't any more appropriate for jiving to than current chart music but at least it was good to listen to.So what is ideal for Ceroc? Leaving aside personal preferences in music - what is the ideal music for Modern Jive?

We get bombarded with chart music at Ceroc and it doesn't bring in punters.After our only trip to Ceroc in Scotland last year (10th Anniversary Party) I would hate to see a night where there were more punters...


"Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy" (if that's the one you mean) is a fine songIt certainly is. Although in my old age I prefer doing East Coast Swing to it, and not modern jive.


You say that there are "classes for swing, jive..." Did you know that Ceroc runs jive classes? There should be little surprise then that the occasional jivey tune gets played.Aside from the fundamental differences in timing between modern jive and the various forms of 8- and 6-count swing (lindy, east coast swing, rock'n'roll, jitterbug, etc), I do agree with you. For most people at Ceroc, modern jive is the only dance they know. The fact that you can do it to lots of different styles of music makes it very versatile. I would expect to hear the occasional swing track, and the occasional '50s song. Just as I would hope to hear the occasional modern RnB song, and the occasional house track, and even an occasional rap, or drum&bass track. But they are far rarer than swing music at a ceroc night.


A final point - I'm all for a bit of variety in the music which is played but currently the bias is very, very firmly in favour of modern chart music. A bit more jive and swing would even things up a bit. Might even get some under 25s in cos the stuff they do play sure as hell aint bringing 'em inCome down to London. Quite often I don't like the music at Ceroc nights down here, because they play far too much old stuff...

David

Ronde!
7th-January-2003, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by Dance Demon
Boy! thats some list. And It's just the sort of stuff that if you get a whole night of it, it would drive you nuts.
Yes, I agree, there are many that would despise that posting as a playlist. :) But most of the tracks would be great to get if one went out clubbing, as one does as a young 'un. :) Club Ceroc is even more fun than dance classes much of the time, a combination of the atmosphere and the freedom. And the faster beat of club music (which averages around 135 BPM) is a real boost to acquiring fluency and confidence.

I know there are pros and cons to any style of music and any mix. I love it all, except Billy Ray Cyrus, and I've never yet turned down a dance based on the music. Ceroc, like other hobbies, is a chance to meet other people and expand your taste, experiences and interests... like so much in life... which is why I always say

Live passionately,

TheTramp
7th-January-2003, 08:42 AM
So what is ideal for Ceroc? Leaving aside personal preferences in music - what is the ideal music for Modern Jive?I don't think that there is any such thing. It's all a question of personal preferences. And if you went to a dance night, and asked 10 different people for the ideal Modern Jive track, you'd probably get 10 vastly different answers.

I still think that the only way to achieve success, is to play a wide variety af music. And hope that people in general finally realise that theirs isn't the only opinion on the dancefloor, and that there has to be some give and take by everyone.....

(Fat chance) :rolleyes:

Steve

Franck
7th-January-2003, 10:38 AM
Here goes another thread veering off topic...

Anyway, regarding students, I reckon we get a reasonable number up here... Not huge, but then again, I don't think we are seeking a predominantly 'studenty' membership at any of the nights...
About 8 years ago, I did run classes at a Ceroc society in Edinburgh University, and it was very popular, it pretty much kick started the classes in Edinburgh! The main ingredients were that it had to be cheap (very cheap), and in 'trendy' premises, and of course that the night was 'officially' organized by a student. In the end, though, the students moved on to real life and the classes stopped in the university, but we opened regular classes in Edinburgh...

Because the Wednesday nights in Glasgow are in a Student's Union, most people expect to see mostly students and are (pleasantly) surprised to find the broad range of ages / walks of life that attend the nights.

I don't think the music has any effect at all, apart from the fact that if you get too much of one style, then you alienate one part (or more) of your membership, students have varying preferred styles too, and you can't just assume that because they are young they'll like club music or hip hop...

As someone pointed out above, students like to socialize with other students, so unless you have a special students night, you are unlikely to get that many students...
This is not limited to students, and I reckon as many people are put off by the perception Ceroc nights are full of students...

Franck.

PeterL
7th-January-2003, 11:09 AM
The idea of getting students to go is admirable.

But one of the main reasons I and so many others enjoy ceroc is the wide range of types and age groups that attend. All feel welcome. As an ex-student I remember not being short of social activities, while as a 30 year old going to clubs no longer appeals the way it used to.

It is nice that an organisation such as ceroc does not target a particular audience and maybe that dooms it to a mainly slightly older generation. However this is not a bad thing.

I think ceroc in Scotland atleast has the formula right. Young, Young at heart doesn't matter all are welcome and all have a good time once they learn to relax and enjoy dancing.

Franck
7th-January-2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by PeterL
Young, Young at heart doesn't matter all are welcome and all have a good time once they learn to relax and enjoy dancing. Yep, could not agree more... As long as people are up for a good time and a dance or 10, what do I care how old they are? :D
We do need a good mix of people though, just to make sure the nights don't become 'cliquey'.

Franck.

PeterL
7th-January-2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Franck
We do need a good mix of people though, just to make sure the nights don't become 'cliquey'.This is exactly why I don't think it would be a good idea to target a particular audience. Ceroc in Scotland has a good mix of people and I dance with people of all age groups and interests an inundation od students may put people off and change the excellent atmosphere we have. Plus if we were over populated by students ceroc would be a bit quiet at exam time.

The best way of promoting ceroc is word of mouth. Most people I know have been introduced by a friend, once you have the bug you try to get everyone you know to go.

Gus
7th-January-2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by PeterL
[B]This is exactly why I don't think it would be a good idea to target a particular audience. Ceroc in Scotland has a good mix of people and I dance with people of all age groups and interests an inundation od students may put people off and change the excellent atmosphere we have. [b]


If your age range is balanced in Scotland great! ... but thats definitely not the case in many Ceroc clubs I've been to. I'm not being ageist but at my advanced years its a bit off-putting to walk into a venue and find myself one of the younger dancers and have to endure Swing, RnR and Frank Sinatra all night. The Music and the dancers should be similar ... i.e. a broad range ... too many clubs are firmly entrenched solely in the 40/50 age group.

At Middlewich on Friday we had quite literaly from 16 to 60 (OK ... so it was 58 but who's counting). The music ranged from Bad Bad Leroy Brown and Stop her on Sight through Santana and Van M Classics through to Jakatta, David Guetta and Avril L ..... and most people enjoyed most tracks ... sin't that whats its about?

PS The only record that (nearly) cleared the floor was 'Aint Nobody but us Chickens' by Lisa Stansfield ..... is that trying to tell us something?

Holly
7th-January-2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Gus
PS The only record that (nearly) cleared the floor was 'Aint Nobody but us Chickens' by Lisa Stansfield ..... is that trying to tell us something?

What were you expecting?? It's a dire tune - and that's coming from a girl who likes cheese!

Holly

Gus
7th-January-2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Holly


What were you expecting?? It's a dire tune - and that's coming from a girl who likes cheese!

Holly

Urrrr .... got to say that the 'Swing' album is standard ammunition for all Ceroc DJs ... I've tended to find it fairly reliable for the last two years ... though it seems now to be faling out of favour

Dr. Feelgood
7th-January-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Franck

... and you can't just assume that because they are young they'll like club music or hip hop...



How true, Franck. Age and musical taste are not related in any way.

Plenty of youngsters like swing and r'n'r etc and plenty of older folk seem to like modern stuff.
Go to a Pink Floyd concert (if you ever get another chance) and there'll be no shortage of teenagers there. Plenty of other other examples obviously exist.

I like stuff from centuries ago up to present day... I wouldn't, however, go through the motions of jive to all the music I love.

If someone were to ask the question, "Why do people start going to Ceroc" then the answer to why students, in the main, don't go might become apparent.



:cheers:

Siobhan (Forum Plant)
7th-January-2003, 12:04 PM
For me, variety is best.... a bit of everything makes the perfect ceroc night! Too much club/pop I get bored, too much swing I get bored.

Graham
7th-January-2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Gus


Urrrr .... got to say that the 'Swing' album is standard ammunition for all Ceroc DJs ... I've tended to find it fairly reliable for the last two years ... though it seems now to be faling out of favour
I'm with Holly on this particular track - I hate it.

TheTramp
7th-January-2003, 12:44 PM
Ummm.....

Well, I quite like the Louis Jordan version.

Is that allowed??

Steve

Ronde!
13th-January-2003, 12:15 PM
Hmmm... I just thought of another possible reason we have such a large proportion of young Cerocers compared to some other venues... half our teachers, and all of our teacher trainees (I think), are under 30 or so, and the others are the most young-at-heart people I've ever met (though this might be the effect Ceroc has on people in general ;)).

Our teacher demographics must have subtle influences on music, atmosphere, and the kinds of parties and social events put on... and might explain why we go clubbing together (teachers and students), hang out at New Years Eve, invite each other to parties, and dare each other to wear sequins and glittery jeans, and generally have fun being silly much of the time...

Live passionately,

Gus
13th-January-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Ronde!
Hmmm... I just thought of another possible reason we have such a large proportion of young Cerocers compared to some other venues... half our teachers, and all of our teacher trainees (I think), are under 30 or so, and the others are the most young-at-heart people I've ever met (though this might be the effect Ceroc has on people in general ;)).
Live passionately,

I think thats its the attitude of the teacher thats most important. If its pure age ...well most of the female Scottish teachers I've met are mere embryos (in the nicest possible way) ... Lisa, Lorna, Mari etc ..... If age was the main fcator then all their classes would be filled full of pimply youths drooling over such gorgeous examples of womanhood ... (sorry ... going to have to lie down again..) OK ... you know what I mean!

At Nantwich, with exception Jo ... all the teachers were over 30 ... in my case considerably over 30 ... but we still get a lot of buy-in from the 20 year old market (well at least the ones we get through the door). Re the music ... sorry but EVERY youngster I know down here would far prefer to dance to Basement Jaxx, 3 Amigos or even Kylie to the vast majority of Swing! Its not that they dont like Swing, they just like class club music moreso.