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Donna
17th-August-2005, 12:48 PM
Judging by what David James said.....

QUOTE=DAVIDJAMES]But I think you'll find that 5'6.5" is exactly the ideal height for a dancer.[QUOTE][/COLOR]

do you think smaller people look like better dancers? They appear to move faster and look more stylish :angry: whereas taller people tend to look slower and lack style. :sad: Do you think it has anything to do with height or do you think a taller person can make it look just as HOT by using a different technique in their dancing???? :confused:

LMC
17th-August-2005, 12:51 PM
As a tall person I am taking a violent aversion to the way this is phrased.

"Better" dancing is nothing to do with height and everything to do with skill and physical fitness.

under par
17th-August-2005, 01:00 PM
As a tall person I am taking a violent aversion to the way this is phrased.

"Better" dancing is nothing to do with height and everything to do with skill and physical fitness.

As an extremely tall person, technically a GIANT, who cares! :hug:

Icey
17th-August-2005, 01:04 PM
do you think smaller people look like better dancers?

What height is small or tall?

At an average 5'6" does this make me an average dancer? Will I be able to get better without wearing platforms?

I think it's all individual, some poeple shorter than me move beautifully whilst others look like they're not hearing the same music as I am. Same goes with taller people.

Purple Sparkler
17th-August-2005, 01:05 PM
They appear to move faster and look more stylish

Anyone who's ever done a blues class will tell you that style has NOTHING to do with speed. Slow or fast is immaterial- slow can look incredibly graceful. And fast can look messy.


Or height.

I'm way over DavidJames's 'ideal height' for a dancer, and don't usually get any complaints. In fact I get complimented on my style and musicality. :cool:

NewKid is right- it's not about height, it's about skill and working your goshdarn socks off at improving your technique both in execution of moves and in working on your style points so you look better.

under par
17th-August-2005, 01:08 PM
What height is small or tall?

EXACTLY.

A very good question.


To a person of 6'8" everybody who is 6'5" is small.

Size is all relative.

Dance prowess and skill is a totally different matter. UNRELATED IMHO. :flower:

David Franklin
17th-August-2005, 01:19 PM
"Better" dancing is nothing to do with height and everything to do with skill and physical fitness.The way I've seen judges put it, the taller you are, the more visible everything is. Problem is, as they are usually focusing on the flaws (judging "down" from perfection), that isn't good for the taller competitor. And also many moves are technically more difficult when you're taller - you've got more to move and you have to move it further, but you only get the same time to do it.

A particular case is spinning. It's actually width rather than height that's really critical here, but assuming they scale together, my guesstimate is that the force required to do a spin in 1 beat scales as the fifth power of height. In other words, it takes twice as much force to spin at 5' than 5'9.

Of course, it's not all bad. Standing out on the dance floor is probably a good thing. Travelling moves look more impressive. And (IMHO) tall men doing aerials look a lot better than shorter men (more height -> more fright, to quote LilyB).

spindr
17th-August-2005, 01:19 PM
Hmmm, let's go for the controversial approach :)

I find that in general
1). Shorter ladies spin better.
2). Taller ladies are more graceful.

SpinDr.

David Franklin
17th-August-2005, 01:24 PM
Hmmm, let's go for the controversial approach :)

I find that in general
1). Shorter ladies spin better.
2). Taller ladies are more graceful.Or perhaps even simpler - small people do better with "fast" movements, tall people with "slow" ones. A lot of the US comps have a "child" (~6-12 years) category - and they seem to use a lot of sped-up tracks. Really wierd to hear a "chipmunk" version of a swing song you know well...

LMC
17th-August-2005, 01:32 PM
Hmmm, let's go for the controversial approach :)

I find that in general
1). Shorter ladies spin better.
2). Taller ladies are more graceful.

SpinDr.
I wouldn't say that was controversial, especially when taken in conjunction with the evidence/experience of David F. Specifics are interesting (and useful...)

What I was objecting to was the staggeringly sweeping implication that shorter people tend to be "better" dancers and that taller people tend to lack style.

Possibly over-reacted just because in my case, both those happen to be mostly true :whistle: - but I'm working damn hard to make sure that that changes...

DavidB
17th-August-2005, 01:54 PM
Standing still looks the same no matter what the height. Why complicate things by moving?

bigdjiver
17th-August-2005, 02:08 PM
Standing still looks the same no matter what the height. Why complicate things by moving?OTOH I reckon I am best seen as a blur.

Donna
17th-August-2005, 02:25 PM
As a tall person I am taking a violent aversion to the way this is phrased.

"Better" dancing is nothing to do with height and everything to do with skill and physical fitness.

I'm tall as well you know and this is why I have brought the subject up. I think I might have phrased that wrong ' lack of style'. I've seen amazing tall dancers but ask a smaller dancer to do the same move the tall person did to a dance track and the smaller person somehow does it better. I get really self conscious about it as well....sometimes I wish I was just a bit smaller because then it's also easier to do more moves. Like Dave Franklin said:


many moves are technically more difficult when you're taller - you've got more to move and you have to move it further, but you only get the same time to do it.

I didn't start this thread off to criticise anybody's height or dancing so I'm sorry you took it the wrong way. I do beleive taller people are generally better at blues or any style that flow's because they make it look more fluid. When it comes down to fast tracks like fast latin music, pop or dance i tend to find smaller people have more power in their legs and it can look amazing!!!

Basically the reason for starting off this thread is to see if anyone knows of any techniques a taller person can use to make it look similar without overdoing it and making it look ridiculous????


What I was objecting to was the staggeringly sweeping implication that shorter people tend to be "better" dancers and that taller people tend to lack style.

Noooo I have seen some taller people who are better dancers than short people but you but a tall couple and a smaller couple in the middle of the floor and put a fast track on, even though the taller couple may still be amazing, the smaller couple I think would still stand out.

David Bailey
17th-August-2005, 02:32 PM
I'm way over DavidJames's 'ideal height' for a dancer,
:eek: How come my tongue-in-cheek comments get abused so much?

My height is the ideal height for me. That's it.

We've had this "body size" discussion before - e.g. do you dance with fat people? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5410). It never goes well...

Donna
17th-August-2005, 02:38 PM
We've had this "body size" discussion before - e.g. do you dance with fat people? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5410). It never goes well...

Yes but that was about fat people. This is about short and tall people. You know sometimes bringing starting off a thread like this can be quite dangerous. If I was to discuss this with someone face to face I would use a different tone which doesn't make it seem at all as bad as putting it on the forum because 'certain' people :whistle: take it the wrong way. :wink: :nice:

LMC
17th-August-2005, 02:52 PM
Yes but that was about fat people. This is about short and tall people. You know sometimes bringing starting off a thread like this can be quite dangerous. If I was to discuss this with someone face to face I would use a different tone which doesn't make it seem at all as bad as putting it on the forum because 'certain' people :whistle: take it the wrong way. :wink: :nice:
Yeah, that would have been me. Why not just say so?

I stand by my opinion that your first post implied "short good, tall bad". Height is something we can do nothing about. I get self-conscious about my height sometimes too and was even told by an ex that I'm "too tall". Nice (NOT). As you are tall yourself, that makes the poorly thought out wording even worse.

Even your second post on the thread, which is much better explained seems to imply that "short good, tall bad":


Noooo I have seen some taller people who are better dancers than short people but you but a tall couple and a smaller couple in the middle of the floor and put a fast track on, even though the taller couple may still be amazing, the smaller couple I think would still stand out.

David Bailey
17th-August-2005, 02:55 PM
Yes but that was about fat people. This is about short and tall people.
Oh, we had "do you dance with tall people?".
And "do you dance with bald people?".
And "do you dance with asses?".

And...

Believe me, we've done this. Lots.

Can't find the "tall people" one though for some reason. Maybe I'm too short or something

David Franklin
17th-August-2005, 02:57 PM
Can't find the "tall people" one though for some reason. Maybe I'm too short or somethingI think it went over your head... [rimshot!]

under par
17th-August-2005, 03:02 PM
Can't find the "tall people" one though for some reason. Maybe I'm too short or something

as I 've said before I never dance with tall people, they are all short ones.

Donna
17th-August-2005, 03:26 PM
Even your second post on the thread, which is much better explained seems to imply that "short good, tall bad":

Newkid just how tall are you?? I'm 5'7, wish I was 5'5 or 5'6. And even though I have people telling me I'm a good dancer, I'm prepared to admit that the smaller person who was standing next to me during a fast track was better.

LMC
17th-August-2005, 03:51 PM
I'm 5'9"

The fact that *one* shorter person standing next to you during a fast track was a better dancer than you may have nothing to do with your relative heights. They were probably just a better dancer - or would you rather blame your height, which you can do nothing about, than your dance experience/ability, which you can?

Most people are better dancers than me. Some of them are taller than me, more are shorter. The fact that they are better than me has very little to do with their height. It has an awful lot to do with the fact that I have only been dancing 3 months and am not as physically fit as I would like to be.

Just to be clear on this: I talked about height differences on another thread and some experienced dancers made it clear there and on this thread here that height can make a difference in certain circumstances.

What I am objecting to is the value judgements you appear to be making - what is coming across is that you are saying "shorter people are better dancers"

Donna
17th-August-2005, 03:58 PM
Most people are better dancers than me. Some of them are taller than me, more are shorter.

Ha you've just said it yourself!!!!




Just to be clear on this: I talked about height differences on another thread and some experienced dancers made it clear there and on this thread here that height can make a difference in certain circumstances.

:yeah:



What I am objecting to is the value judgements you appear to be making - what is coming across is that you are saying "shorter people are better dancers"

You said it yourself before that the majority of shorter people can look better.

robd
17th-August-2005, 04:01 PM
I get self-conscious about my height sometimes too and was even told by an ex that I'm "too tall".

No need, no need.

I didn't think of you as particularly tall or even as just 'tall' when I saw you and plenty of women at the same event were taller than you including one whose height actually did give her and I a few problems during rotation.

Purple Sparkler
17th-August-2005, 04:05 PM
Most people are better dancers than me. Some of them are taller than me, more are shorter.


Ha you've just said it yourself!!!!

Yes, because NewKid is taller than average height, so of course most of the women are going to be either a little, or a lot, shorter than her.

I'm 5'10.5", so even taller than NewKid, and that's not even when I'm in heels. So from MY point of view, you're actually quite short. CF Under Par.

And I stand by MY opinion that it has everything to do with technique. For example, I've never had a bad dance with Under Par, but neither have I ever had a bad dance with Seamus the Ashtons Taxi who is CONSIDERABLY shorter than I am.

I say stop obsessing about your height and just get on and dance. And (I've said it before, and I'll bloody well say it again- can't wait to see if my application to Taxi is accepted so I can tell ALL the beginner women this) ALWAYS let the man do the compensating for your height. It's a risk, admittedly, because occasionally you might get the top of your head brushed by an arm (oh no!) but worth it because it stops you stooping.

LMC
17th-August-2005, 04:06 PM
Donna, you have quoted me out of context. So perhaps I haven't made myself clear.

At 5'9" most women and a significant proportion of men are shorter than me. Therefore, more dancers are shorter than me than taller than me.

Therefore there are more shorter dancers that are better than me than taller dancers that are better than me.

I repeat, the fact that they are better than me is to do with our relative abilities (or lack of in my case) not our relative heights.

Lee
17th-August-2005, 04:09 PM
Judging by what David James said.....

I think you'll find that 5'6.5" is exactly the ideal height for a dancer.

do you think smaller people look like better dancers? They appear to move faster and look more stylish :angry: whereas taller people tend to look slower and lack style. :sad: Do you think it has anything to do with height or do you think a taller person can make it look just as HOT by using a different technique in their dancing???? :confused:

I've actually managed to read this whole thread for a change and now have a head ache :tears:

For me (being 5"9 and 1/2 :whistle: ) dancing with someone a lot taller than me (say 5"11+) is actually very hard, as i struggle to get my arm over their head with out catching them, and all that streching hurts :really:

So in response to the original question, if i'm dancing with a lady about the same height or smaller than me (but not smaller than 4") :wink: i would think we have a better chance in look better than if i were dancing with a giant. :rofl:

Lee

stewart38
17th-August-2005, 04:15 PM
I've actually managed to read this whole thread for a change and now have a head ache :tears:

For me (being 5"9 and 1/2 :whistle: ) dancing with someone a lot taller than me (say 5"11+) is actually very hard, as i struggle to get my arm over their head with out catching them, and all that streching hurts :really:



Lee

I think up to about 6 inch difference in height there is usually no problem for me, then im afraid size does matter.

There is lovely female dancer who must be cira 6ft 7 but we still do ok

New Kid your a short arse so stop trying to join the tall society (6ft plus) :grin:

Donna
17th-August-2005, 04:17 PM
[QUOTE=NewKid
At 5'9" most women and a significant proportion of men are shorter than me.[QUOTE]

Blimey you are tall aren't you? There's this girl who has just started in chester and she must be well over 6ft!! I think tall people who do ballet are better than short people though cuz it looks more graceful. When I did the Strictly Dance Fever auditions there was this girl there who was incredibly tall but she was absolutely amazing!!!

stewart38
17th-August-2005, 04:19 PM
[QUOTE=NewKid
At 5'9" most women and a significant proportion of men are shorter than me.[QUOTE]

Blimey you are tall aren't you? There's this girl who has just started in chester and she must be well over 6ft!! I think tall people who do ballet are better than short people though cuz it looks more graceful. When I did the Strictly Dance Fever auditions there was this girl there who was incredibly tall but she was absolutely amazing!!!


5ft 9 isnt 'tall' for a women ? what they feeding you lot in Wales :sick:

Donna
17th-August-2005, 04:29 PM
I'm 5'10.5", so even taller than NewKid, and that's not even when I'm in heels. So from MY point of view, you're actually quite short. CF Under Par.

Do you find you have to wear flat shoes quite often then or do you still wear high heels?? If so, what size heel do you go for . I tend to not go for anything over 2 inches.

A
nd I stand by MY opinion that it has everything to do with technique. For example, I've never had a bad dance with Under Par, but neither have I ever had a bad dance with Seamus the Ashtons Taxi who is CONSIDERABLY shorter than I am.

When you dance with smaller people then do you have to bend your knees a bit because when I dance with smaller men I find myself dancing with my knees slightly bent and when they turn me under, you tend to arch your back a bit to get under otherwise their arm would take your head off!! I danced with this one guy who was short and his watch got tangled in my hair as he 'just about' as he turned me. This woman in my class even had her eyelashes ripped off with someone's watch as well!!! (mind you, I must point out she's has got very long eyelashes!!! :D Or did!!! :rofl:

Donna
17th-August-2005, 04:31 PM
[QUOTE=Donna][QUOTE=NewKid
At 5'9" most women and a significant proportion of men are shorter than me.


5ft 9 isnt 'tall' for a women ? what they feeding you lot in Wales :sick:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: it is tall!!! We're all short asses here BOYO!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: NOW BEFORE I SAY THIS...I DIDN'T MAKE THIS UP...(otherwise known as mad duck disease!!!!! :rofl: )

LMC
17th-August-2005, 04:41 PM
Do you find you have to wear flat shoes quite often then or do you still wear high heels?? If so, what size heel do you go for . I tend to not go for anything over 2 inches.
I just *love* my jazz shoes 'cos they are flat! But not elegant with a short skirt unfortunately. I've just ordered some Internationals with a 1" Cuban heel, probably the lowest you can get... - will post pics on the shoe thread when they turn up, because, ahem, there are already lots of discussions about shoes.

When you dance with smaller people then do you have to bend your knees a bit because when I dance with smaller men I find myself dancing with my knees slightly bent and when they turn me under, you tend to arch your back a bit to get under otherwise their arm would take your head off!! I danced with this one guy who was short and his watch got tangled in my hair as he 'just about' as he turned me. This woman in my class even had her eyelashes ripped off with someone's watch as well!!! (mind you, I must point out she's has got very long eyelashes!!! :D Or did!!! :rofl:
I used to do this all the time. And probably still do sometimes. But I was told by a very nice and good dancer a couple of weeks ago *never* to compromise my posture - it's the lead's *job* to compensate. At one of my venues there is a Chinese taxi - lady - who is about a quarter my size in every dimension, I mean, she is tiny. And if SHE can turn me (although at fingertip length) without me having to duck, then 99.9% of guys will be able to. So now, if they don't raise their arm high enough, I will push it up - I know where my hand is in relation to my head. I danced with someone last Wednesday who resisted this and it was very difficult - if he had asked me to dance again I would have refused him and explained (nicely) why. Because ducking really does compromise your balance - I turn far faster and more neatly now I don't arch my back.

Kev F
17th-August-2005, 04:52 PM
I'm 5'10.5", so even taller than NewKid, and that's not even when I'm in heels. So from MY point of view, you're actually quite short. CF Under Par.

And I stand by MY opinion that it has everything to do with technique. For example, I've never had a bad dance with Under Par, but neither have I ever had a bad dance with Seamus the Ashtons Taxi who is CONSIDERABLY shorter than I am.

When we've danced I've never even thought about how tall you were/or had any problems with the height to dance quality ratio, even though you must stand taller than me with heels on. :nice:

But.....some other taller women do cause me a problem if they tend to travel further from me when dancing. So a combination of travelling and height can be more taxing for the average dancer. :sad:

So ladies who keep it tighter do help me out. :flower:

Rhythm King
17th-August-2005, 04:59 PM
I danced with a fabulous lady (whose name I don't know :blush: ), wearing black and white shoes, on Saturday night at Twyford. She was significantly taller than my mere 6'2". She danced elegantly and gracefully and I managed not to bash her on the head, on a monotonously regular basis. I have also danced with people who are under 5' tall. You just adapt your style to suit. Some of them are amazingly good dancers, others less so, but it's not the height that decides that.

Purple Sparkler
17th-August-2005, 05:05 PM
Do you find you have to wear flat shoes quite often then or do you still wear high heels?? If so, what size heel do you go for . I tend to not go for anything over 2 inches.


My first pair of proper dance shoes only had a one inch heel, and my new ones are higher than that- about 2.5 inches I think. I don't think I've worn flat shoes for dancing in over a year.

Donna
18th-August-2005, 09:55 AM
I just *love* my jazz shoes 'cos they are flat! But not elegant with a short skirt unfortunately.

:yeah:




At one of my venues there is a Chinese taxi - lady - who is about a quarter my size in every dimension, I mean, she is tiny.

There's also a chinese woman in my venue and she is also tiny. She's really funny as well. One guy really winds her up and during the class he kneels down on the floor...especially if there is a comb in the routine!!! :rofl:



And if SHE can turn me (although at fingertip length) without me having to duck, then 99.9% of guys will be able to. So now, if they don't raise their arm high enough, I will push it up - I know where my hand is in relation to my head.

But.... don't they hang off the floor?

Purple Sparkler
18th-August-2005, 10:43 AM
But.... don't they hang off the floor?

I'm sure you meant that as a joke, but it's really not very funny. Especially as IIRC, NK has said before that her height has on occasion made her feel self-conscious. This would be one of the pitfalls of writing as opposed to talking, which you yourself have expressed on this very thread.

Donna
18th-August-2005, 10:51 AM
I'm sure you meant that as a joke, but it's really not very funny. Especially as IIRC, NK has said before that her height has on occasion made her feel self-conscious. This would be one of the pitfalls of writing as opposed to talking, which you yourself have expressed on this very thread.

It's something my dance teacher even jokes about when a tall person is dancing with a smaller person in order to make sure they do it safely but nobody seems to complain there. I did mean it in a friendly way but unfortunately people can easily take it the wrong way when in writing.

LMC
18th-August-2005, 11:00 AM
As it 'appens, there was one occasion when, as the tallest woman in a small beginners class, I made a joke of dancing with this TD and squatted down on my heels, which made her just a little taller than me (it was an interesting posture in which to try to follow a First Move :eek: ). Although she laughed, it seemed a little forced to me. So I guess it isn't just tall people who are self-conscious about height - it was a bit disrespectful of me to do that to her and I've never done it since.

As far as "hanging off the floor" is concerned - as I have a complete sense of humour failure today for reasons totally unrelated to this thread, I will not react, I will instead treat the comment seriously and point out that if your handhold is correct, i.e. not a death grip, then if the lead is uncomfortable with stretching that high then he or she can always let go.

Donna
18th-August-2005, 11:14 AM
As it 'appens, there was one occasion when, as the tallest woman in a small beginners class, I made a joke of dancing with this TD and squatted down on my heels, which made her just a little taller than me (it was an interesting posture in which to try to follow a First Move :eek: ). Although she laughed, it seemed a little forced to me. So I guess it isn't just tall people who are self-conscious about height - it was a bit disrespectful of me to do that to her and I've never done it since.

Yeah some people are self conscious of the height but some can just laugh it off. Like that chinese woman I was talking about? She really laughs her head off because every person in that room is too tall for her....but she still attends the classes every week and enjoys herself. :clap:



As far as "hanging off the floor" is concerned - as I have a complete sense of humour failure today for reasons totally unrelated to this thread, I will not react, I will instead treat the comment seriously and point out that if your handhold is correct, i.e. not a death grip, then if the lead is uncomfortable with stretching that high then he or she can always let go.


I think as long as you do keep a gentle hand grip then it should be fine. That's how I have pulled a muscle in my arm. I was dancing with someone a lot taller than me, and he decided to turn himself under my arm. It felt as though my shoulder was coming out of place and to make matters worse I tried to pull away. It's not been right since. :sad: