Footwork, frame, technique etc...

[Tellina]

Hi :nice:

I have a question about how technique is taught in MJ. I have been reading many of the threads on this forum but I couldn't see where to add my question so I thought I'd start a new topic.

I am really curious to know how much technique is emphasised during MJ classes in the UK. I learned Rock 'n' Roll in France and when I moved to the US I found that the dance is very similar to MJ. However, while my teachers in Paris emphasised the importance of frame, style, footwork and good lead and follow techniques (follows can be lead through a whole dance with their eyes closed) I find that none of that is mentioned here in NY. We're told that footwork doesn't matter and we're taught visual signs for some moves so that the lady sees which move is coming up rather than feeling the lead into the move. An Australian dancer told me that although in NY we can back-step on either foot, in Australia there are some rules about that and some moves do have specific footwork. So is MJ taught differently in different countries or does it depend on the teacher? Maybe it depends on whether it is Modern Jive, Ceroc, Leroc etc.?

One explanation I received was that MJ is all about learning moves quickly and getting onto the dance floor to have a good time without having to spend hours in a class first. That makes sense :waycool: But surely, in order to become a good dancer, some technique has to be studied?

Thanks for any information on this :grin: . Because I'm English people ask me "What's MJ like in the UK?" but I have no idea...

Lily

[Icey]

I've not really eperienced all that much in the frame or footwork area of technique being taught or even mentioned at the class I regularly go to. Look at Newkid's posts about it.

It seems to be something I "got" but NK has been having trouble with it and says she has 'spaghetti arms'. Maybe I spent to much time watching Dirty Dancing as a youngster ... this is my dance space and this is your dance space.

The teacher will spend about 3 miunutes on the "facing each other holding hands doing the lead and follow backwards and then forwards thing" and says that this is the amount tension we should have. But he only says this in the beginners class not the improvers/intermediate class.

I'm still a beginner and I have an awful lot to learn but I do feel that footwork and framing has largly been pushed aside to get me dancing which isn't a bad thing as I get to dance now, but to improve I need to look at these things.

[Donna]

I am really curious to know how much technique is emphasised during MJ classes in the UK.

Hi Tellina.

I don't think technique is taught very often in the UK but if it is, it's normally down south. I've heard Amir does.



We're told that footwork doesn't matter and we're taught visual signs for some moves so that the lady sees which move is coming up rather than feeling the lead into the move.

Ah but the footwork is very important. How are you meant to follow properly if you don't concentrate on what your feet are doing?? To be a good follow you have to make sure that your steps aren't so big that you can fit a bus inbetween them, and also making sure you transfer your weight properly on your feet is very important. I was told that it doesn't matter which foot you start on but I think it does. I always start stepping back on my right in preparation for a first move for example. If I started on my left, then coming back round to face the man if going to be quite tricky.

I think for competitors fast footwork is very important so then it stands out more.


An Australian dancer told me that although in NY we can back-step on either foot, in Australia there are some rules about that and some moves do have specific footwork. So is MJ taught differently in different countries or does it depend on the teacher? Maybe it depends on whether it is Modern Jive, Ceroc, Leroc etc.?

Most definately, MJ is taught differently in different countries. Similar moves, but different techniques and ways of teaching them. It is at the end of the day all down to the teacher. Like, for ceroc, they hold auditions for those wanting to teach, but it has to be done a certain way.

You'll find cerocers take big steps, cuz that's the way its taught. Up North of UK I have been told the dancers appear to look a lot slower and lack style (I didn't say that by the way, but someone who has travelled around has clearly noticed this) Down in London however, they appear to dance a lot sharper and have a lot of flare in their dancing. It's the way they are taught but also bare in mind some of these people have done other styles like salsa or ballroom etc which they bring into their dancing and gives it a bit more flavour.


You should come over to the UK and give it try. Then you can see for yourself and go back and tell you're friends what you thought of it perhaps?? :flower:

[David Bailey]

Hi :nice:
Hi Tellina, and welcome!


... I find that none of that is mentioned here in NY. We're told that footwork doesn't matter and we're taught visual signs for some moves so that the lady sees which move is coming up rather than feeling the lead into the move.
In most Ceroc places in the UK, that's pretty similar - moves like the neckbreak are taught with visual signals (right arm out / up). Although these signals are not really necessary in my opinion.


An Australian dancer told me that although in NY we can back-step on either foot, in Australia there are some rules about that and some moves do have specific footwork.
Officially, it's either foot. Unofficially, it's either foot - in my opinion. But there's, wooo, lots of exciting debate on this fascinating topic in the forum...


So is MJ taught differently in different countries or does it depend on the teacher? Maybe it depends on whether it is Modern Jive, Ceroc, Leroc etc.?
Yes, yes, and yes :)

Basic MJ beginners moves (and I believe some intermediate moves) are taught, word-for-word from a standard "script". AFAIK this script is the same for all Ceroc classes. Intermediate / advanced moves are taught with a bit more individuality I believe.

Dunno what the situation is in NZ / OZ, but I believe the differences are more in "country-specific style" than in footwork.

Ceroc / Leroc do teach differently, but not massively so - again, in my opinion.


But surely, in order to become a good dancer, some technique has to be studied?
Definitely - again, there's lots of debate on this one in this forum...

[LMC]

I've not really eperienced all that much in the frame or footwork area of technique being taught or even mentioned at the class I regularly go to. Look at Newkid's posts about it.

It seems to be something I "got" but NK has been having trouble with it and says she has 'spaghetti arms'. Maybe I spent to much time watching Dirty Dancing as a youngster ... this is my dance space and this is your dance space.

The teacher will spend about 3 miunutes on the "facing each other holding hands doing the lead and follow backwards and then forwards thing" and says that this is the amount tension we should have. But he only says this in the beginners class not the improvers/intermediate class.

I'm still a beginner and I have an awful lot to learn but I do feel that footwork and framing has largly been pushed aside to get me dancing which isn't a bad thing as I get to dance now, but to improve I need to look at these things.
:yeah:

After some "back to basics" coaching from some of the lovely guys on here, the spaghetti arms are much improved, as is my 'frame' although I still need to learn to adapt the tension correctly. And it will be a continuous improvement process throughout my dancing life anyway (at least I hope it will continue to improve!).

However, I've had very little formal teaching on these things - what Icey says about 'little on techniqe, just get people dancing' is spot on. Which is great from the point of view of "fun".

But if you don't focus on technique at some point, you will never progress beyond your "natural" level. Some people's natural level is better than others (just about everyone's is better than mine!) - there are always tales of beginners who "get it" on their first night.

But anyone who really concentrates on technique can become a competent dancer (at least I b****y well hope so). It's just a shame that you have to go out of the "normal" Ceroc lessons to find teaching on it (i.e. freestyle advice from more experienced dancers, workshops or independents such as the fabulous Jango).

[Tellina]

but also bare in mind some of these people have done other styles like salsa or ballroom etc which they bring into their dancing and gives it a bit more flavour. Good point. I have noticed that I find it much easier to follow a lead who also dances salsa or ballroom or Swing. But that's what I mean: surely it should be possible to become a great MJ dancer with only MJ training? I know that all dancers can benefit from learning other dances but it shouldn't be essential!

You should come over to the UK and give it try. Then you can see for yourself and go back and tell you're friends what you thought of it perhaps?? :flower: That's what I'm going to do! I'm coming to Camber for the Jive weekender in November and I can't wait :clap:

Lily

[Tellina]

Hi Tellina, and welcome! Thank you :grin:
Officially, it's either foot. Unofficially, it's either foot - in my opinion. But there's, wooo, lots of exciting debate on this fascinating topic in the forum... I'll have another look around and see what topics I can find (I did look before posting this one, but I guess I didn't look hard enough!). I have the impression that I have some interesting reading ahead of me :waycool:

[Donna]

But that's what I mean: surely it should be possible to become a great MJ dancer with only MJ training?

I think if the teacher has a ballroom background or has previously taught ballroom then yes teaching technique for MJ might just improve some MJ dancers.


That's what I'm going to do! I'm coming to Camber for the Jive weekender in November and I can't wait :clap:

Well good for you. :clap: Think it's worth travelling all those miles just for that!!! I sure would!!

[Lee]

Hi :nice:

I have a question about how technique is taught in MJ.

I am really curious to know how much technique is emphasised during MJ classes in the UK.

One explanation I received was that MJ is all about learning moves quickly and getting onto the dance floor to have a good time without having to spend hours in a class first. That makes sense :waycool: But surely, in order to become a good dancer, some technique has to be studied?

Thanks for any information on this :grin: . Because I'm English people ask me "What's MJ like in the UK?" but I have no idea...
Lily

I think Ceroc tries to get everyone dancing as quickly and as easily as possible and it's the teacher, taxi dancers and helpful cerocers that will influence others technique.

Ceroc offers workshops at different levels to help develop further.

Otherwise it's the long weekenders that i feel are the best to help improve technique as you get exposed to lot of different teachers.

Lee

[Tellina]

what Icey says about 'little on techniqe, just get people dancing' is spot on. Which is great from the point of view of "fun". But if you don't focus on technique at some point, you will never progress beyond your "natural" level ... But anyone who really concentrates on technique can become a competent dancer (at least I b****y well hope so). It's just a shame that you have to go out of the "normal" Ceroc lessons to find teaching on it (i.e. freestyle advice from more experienced dancers, workshops or independents such as the fabulous Jango). I can see the advantage to learning moves quickly and getting out on the dance floor as quickly as possible. It's very motivating to have instant results and anything that gets more people MJ dancing is good :waycool:

However, I think that it depends on the dancer's objectives. If someone wants to become a good dancer then surely it's better to spend time on technique right from the start rather than spend so much more time later on trying to unlearn bad habits. For example, if a dancer always takes a huge step back on the 1 and is never corrected, it will be really difficult for him or her to change that later on and his or her dancing will suffer.

I would much rather dance with someone who knows only a few moves but leads them beautifully, than with a lead who tries to dance many different moves in one song but knows none of them well. But that's maybe because I really love dancing! I know that some people don't focus on the actual dancing as much as the social aspect of MJ and that's perfectly fine too.

Lily

[Donna]

Otherwise it's the long weekenders that i feel are the best to help improve technique as you get exposed to lot of different teachers.

Most definately. I do find that people who go to the weekenders really do improve. I've been quite impressed with some of my MJ m8s when they return from one of those and I'm always happy for them to try them out on me. :grin:

[Donna]

If someone wants to become a good dancer then surely it's better to spend time on technique right from the start rather than spend so much more time later on trying to unlearn bad habits.

Tellina this is so true! This is what my ballroom teacher has told me. He reckons it will be harder for my partner to undo his old habits now because he has done ceroc for 10 years where as I have only done it for 2 1/2 years so it will be easier for me....and it's working already!! :nice:

[Tellina]

Well good for you. :clap: Think it's worth travelling all those miles just for that!!! I sure would!!Definitely! A whole weekend of dance :waycool: . I'll be visiting family too though, so I have to admit that I won't be coming all that way just for one weekend.

Actually, in case the weekender isn't enough to quench my dance-thirst, would you (or anyone else) recommend anywhere to go dancing the following week or weekend? I'll be staying in Suffolk although I imagine the biggest parties are in London.

Thanks!

Lily

[Tellina]

Otherwise it's the long weekenders that i feel are the best to help improve technique as you get exposed to lot of different teachers. That's true. I've often heard it said that it's better to have a variety of teachers, whatever dance you're learning.

[Donna]

Definitely! A whole weekend of dance :waycool: . I'll be visiting family too though, so I have to admit that I won't be coming all that way just for one weekend.

Actually, in case the weekender isn't enough to quench my dance-thirst, would you (or anyone else) recommend anywhere to go dancing the following week or weekend? I'll be staying in Suffolk although I imagine the biggest parties are in London.

Thanks!

Lily

Yep the biggest parties are down in London. Heard Jango is good held at Hammersmith Palais. Amir teaches there so if you fancy learning technique in MJ....

[Tellina]

Yep the biggest parties are down in London. Heard Jango is good held at Hammersmith Palais. Amir teaches there so if you fancy learning technique in MJ....

Thanks! I'm googling as we speak :grin:

[Sheepman]

So is MJ taught differently in different countries or does it depend on the teacher?
Hi Lily, and welcome!

In my experience (which isn't exactly wide in other countries, though I have had experience of several international teachers) the variation is just as wide between different teachers as it is between countries.

I can't ever remember frame, compression or tension being mentioned in any Ceroc classes I've been to, though some Ceroc teachers are better than others regarding teaching lead and follow. In general I think time constraints in the lessons don't allow for this. Most of the experience I have of such techniques comes from independent teachers, and maybe specialist workshops or at weekenders.

Visual signals are one of my pet hates! Especially where they are used as a "shortcut" to proper lead and follow, but I get the impression they are taught far less often than they used to be.

When it comes to the teaching of WCS, basic technique seems to be much more fundamental, but this teaching can still leave plenty of people struggling for a long time. WCS also seems to have much less appeal, presumably because a lot of time & work is required before you can reach the same level of enjoyment as with MJ. Maybe you can persuade some of your fellow dancers to try half a dozen west coast lessons, which I'm sure would also help the jive.

And a lack of teaching technique is certainly not peculiar to MJ. I was taught Lindy for well over a year before there was any mention of leading! (A long time ago I should add.)

Greg

[Sheepman]

Heard Jango is good held at Hammersmith Palais. I think you mean at Kent House near to Hammersmith Palais! :whistle:

Greg

[Lee]

Kent House, Rutland Grove, Hammersmith, London.

Map: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.s...73&y=178267&z=1

I should get commision for this!!!

Lee

[David Bailey]

surely it should be possible to become a great MJ dancer with only MJ training?
Very good question...

OK, honestly, I'd have to say it's possible, but very much more difficult, to become a "great MJ dancer" (which in itself is difficult to define) without pulling in technique and discipline acquired from other dance forms, simply because MJ doesn't focus on technique and discipline as much as those other dance forms do.

I'd say it's even more difficult to become a great MJ dancer by only going to regular Ceroc classes (i.e. not workshops, weekenders, private lessons, Jango / Hipsters-type classes etc.) Again, not impossible, just even more difficult.

Again, all that's in my very biased opinion.

[Tellina]

Hi Lily, and welcome! Hello, thanks! :nice:
Maybe you can persuade some of your fellow dancers to try half a dozen west coast lessons, which I'm sure would also help the jive. That's a really good idea and I have tried it with one Modern Jiver I know. But it leads me back to the frustrating question "Must a Modern Jiver learn other dances to improve his MJ?"
And a lack of teaching technique is certainly not peculiar to MJ. I was taught Lindy for well over a year before there was any mention of leading! (A long time ago I should add.) Wow! That's awful!

[Tellina]

Kent House, Rutland Grove, Hammersmith, London.

Map: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.s...73&y=178267&z=1

I should get commision for this!!!

Lee Thanks for the link, Lee. But it doesn't work :confused:

[Lynn]

Hi and welcome to the forum! :flower:
One explanation I received was that MJ is all about learning moves quickly and getting onto the dance floor to have a good time without having to spend hours in a class first. That makes sense :waycool: But surely, in order to become a good dancer, some technique has to be studied?I had this same conversation about 1/2 hour ago with a friend about salsa. The biggest salsa classes here teach salsa in a way that is fun, easy to learn and move based. It gets a lot of new dancers into salsa - but there isn't enough technique and lead/follow taught.

It really depends on where your focus is. If its on a fun night out with a sociable friendly bunch of people, then learning enough moves to get you by will satisfy most people. And that's probably where the money is in terms of running dancing classes at a decent profit, so there are plenty of people supplying that.

If your focus is on being a better dancer, then you must learn technique - but good classes will be harder to find as most will be catering for the former category. Ideally there would be both, but focus on technique right from the start will put some people off, which is why I think a lot of places don't do it, or certainly not much of it.

There is a need for both - making dancing fun is great to draw people in, and it provides a lot of pleasure for many people. And I suppose those who really keen to learn technique will find a way of doing so, travelling to classes, trying different things, doing workshops etc.

Personally I am so aware of the sheer volume of technique that I need to learn and how far I have to go. And I'm aware that I need to take this where I can - and have done some salsa, a teeny bit of Arg tango and now starting swing. But I quite like the idea that its a road stretching ahead with a lot of learning along the way!

[Tellina]

Very good question...

OK, honestly, I'd have to say it's possible, but very much more difficult, to become a "great MJ dancer" (which in itself is difficult to define) without pulling in technique and discipline acquired from other dance forms, simply because MJ doesn't focus on technique and discipline as much as those other dance forms do.

I'd say it's even more difficult to become a great MJ dancer by only going to regular Ceroc classes (i.e. not workshops, weekenders, private lessons, Jango / Hipsters-type classes etc.) Again, not impossible, just even more difficult.

Again, all that's in my very biased opinion. And I agree with you! It seems to be that MJ has great music, friendly people, amazing moves and fun parties and classes. And we can take that as it is which is already pretty good! But, if we want to really work on dance technique we can learn and practice other dance styles to improve style and frame etc. and then bring that to the dance floor with all the cool moves and music that MJ has. :waycool:

[Tellina]

Hi and welcome to the forum! :flower: Thanks! It's a really friendly forum :grin: Although I love living in NY I wish some of you guys would move over here and come dancing!!!
But I quite like the idea that its a road stretching ahead with a lot of learning along the way! I know what you mean. I love a challenge and I really, really love dancing so I enjoy taking classes and spending the time to learn new styles. But I understand someone whose focus is learning enough moves to get out onto the dance floor to have a great time dancing with friends and meeting new people.

Lily

[tsh]

And a lack of teaching technique is certainly not peculiar to MJ. I was taught Lindy for well over a year before there was any mention of leading! (A long time ago I should add.)


As I understood it, when Lindy was first revived, it was very much as a performance style, using coreographed routines - there being no need for lead and follow.

The difficulty with teaching technique for a MJ audience is that maybe 50% have very little interest in technique - and most of the other 50% have already worked out the basics by some other route. This doesn't mean that I believe there is any excuse for not explaining that the dance is lead, what the implication of this are to the beginners.

The only practical teaching route is specific 'technique' workshops (not teaching new moves at all), but I suspect that the moves used in MJ don't fit well with learning technique. Styles which rely on a firmer frame and more connection will use moves where better technique clearly result in the move working better, and this helps enormously in the learning process.

Sean

[Andreas]

Footwork:
In NZ we teach (past tense for me :D ) that in certain moves it is benefitial to step back on a certain foot, however, nobody is forced to comply. Quite frankly telling people to step back on a certain foot is in most cases 'stating the obvious'. Hence it is more mentioning what makes a move flow better or look better.

Posture:
Is unfortunately not often emphasised on. Why, I do not know. To me a good posture is a lot better than good footwork because it balances your weight naturally and footwork usually falls in place as a consequence of good posture.

Leading and following:
At the risk of sounding chauvinistic, this very often depends on being taught by a male or female teacher. In most cases when a woman teaches she will describe in detail how the ladies shall walk themselves through a move. Male teachers tend to emphasise more on the following part as a result of teaching how to lead. That is not surprising either. Unless the teacher has dances the respective other part they will have only limited understanding of what is going on. Quite frankly that is also one reason why I do not like teaching to be split between leader and follower. Though, there are advantages to splitting it, too :flower:

[timbp]

An Australian dancer told me that although in NY we can back-step on either foot, in Australia there are some rules about that and some moves do have specific footwork. So is MJ taught differently in different countries or does it depend on the teacher? Maybe it depends on whether it is Modern Jive, Ceroc, Leroc etc.?

You might like to look at the footwork article on the ceroc wiki: http://www.cerocwiki.com/index.php/Footwork

Actually, you might want to look at the whole Technique category: http://www.cerocwiki.com/index.php/Category:Technique

[Minnie M]

Welcome Tellina and happy posting :hug:

[Tellina]

Welcome Tellina and happy posting :hug: Hi Minnie M. Thank you :grin:

[Tellina]

You might like to look at the footwork article on the ceroc wiki: http://www.cerocwiki.com/index.php/Footwork

Actually, you might want to look at the whole Technique category: http://www.cerocwiki.com/index.php/Category:TechniqueThank you for the links, timbp :nice: . This really is a great forum! I've had so many questions about MJ and at last I'm getting some answers :clap:

[Tellina]

Footwork:
In NZ we teach (past tense for me :D ) that in certain moves it is benefitial to step back on a certain foot, however, nobody is forced to comply. Quite frankly telling people to step back on a certain foot is in most cases 'stating the obvious'. Hence it is more mentioning what makes a move flow better or look better.

Posture:
Is unfortunately not often emphasised on. Why, I do not know. To me a good posture is a lot better than good footwork because it balances your weight naturally and footwork usually falls in place as a consequence of good posture.

Leading and following:
At the risk of sounding chauvinistic, this very often depends on being taught by a male or female teacher. In most cases when a woman teaches she will describe in detail how the ladies shall walk themselves through a move. Male teachers tend to emphasise more on the following part as a result of teaching how to lead. That is not surprising either. Unless the teacher has dances the respective other part they will have only limited understanding of what is going on. Quite frankly that is also one reason why I do not like teaching to be split between leader and follower. Though, there are advantages to splitting it, too :flower:

Do all MJ classes follow the same formula of having a male teacher and a female demo? Many of my lessons in France were lead by a teacher who knew the lead and follow parts equally well and would use a different student from the class each time he or she showed everyone a new move. The advantage was that we all got to dance with the teacher. The disadvantage was that there was no demo to show how it should look when done correctly.

Lily

[Andreas]

Do all MJ classes follow the same formula of having a male teacher and a female demo? Many of my lessons in France were lead by a teacher who knew the lead and follow parts equally well and would use a different student from the class each time he or she showed everyone a new move. The advantage was that we all got to dance with the teacher. The disadvantage was that there was no demo to show how it should look when done correctly.

Lily

There were always male and femaile teachers, though, the majority was male. Now there is a general motion to have the two split teaching, as in guy explains the move for the guys, girl for the ladies.

While there is a nnumber who do it, I'd say there are not many teachers that rotate through class. I certainly agree to this scheme for beginners classes for the reasons you mentioned. Though, there still need to be more advanced dancers of the other sex around to demonstrate the other part. Particularly in Salsa I often demonstrated the lady's part myself but for more complex moves always asked for the help of my dance partner. It is a simple fact that it is much easier to comprehend a move if it is executed by the sex you expect the move to do. Even if a lady can do the lead part of a move better than the guy (or the other way around), you will find it a lot easier to understand the mechanics if you see a guy lead and a lady follow. Kinda psychological barrier that most of us seem to suffer.

--------------

The reason for me pointing out that female teachers or demos tend to tell the ladies how to 'walk themselves through a move' is obvious when you actually look for it. You will see that in these situations the ladies HARDLY EVER wait for a lead. They talk and start spinning themselves, lower themselves, turn themselves etc.. While this may be good to see in which positions the lady should end up. It also is the reason why people anticipate moves: They do not realise/learn that in most moves they will be led into those positions NATURALLY and try to be 'too helpful'.

:flower:

[Clive Long]

Thank you for the links, timbp :nice: . This really is a great forum! I've had so many questions about MJ and at last I'm getting some answers :clap:
And to every question you will probably get at least 3 different answers. :rolleyes:

Enjoy.

Clive

P.S. Been to NY 3 times and want to go again. Love it.

[Tellina]

And to every question you will probably get at least 3 different answers. :rolleyes: Hehe!
P.S. Been to NY 3 times and want to go again. Love it.It's a great city to be in. There are so many things happening. :grin:

[Gary]

... surely it should be possible to become a great MJ dancer with only MJ training? I know that all dancers can benefit from learning other dances but it shouldn't be essential!
Agreed. There are some dancers around here (Sydney, Australia) who I think are great MJ'ers, and who haven't done any other styles. A lot of people end up "cross-training" though, because you learn different things from different teachers (and styles).



That's what I'm going to do! I'm coming to Camber for the Jive weekender in November and I can't wait :clap:

I'm jealous. Can you make your trip "round the world" and visit Australia as well?

Also, check out www.cerocforum.com if you're interested in the Australian approach to teaching (and yes, we teach footwork).

[El Salsero Gringo]

The reason for me pointing out that female teachers or demos tend to tell the ladies how to 'walk themselves through a move' is obvious when you actually look for it. You will see that in these situations the ladies HARDLY EVER wait for a lead.Do you mean that the female teachers don't wait for a lead from their demonstrators? All the female teachers for whom I've demonstrated (in Ceroc lessons) - five or six of them - have all allowed me to lead on stage.

[Andreas]

Do you mean that the female teachers don't wait for a lead from their demonstrators? All the female teachers for whom I've demonstrated (in Ceroc lessons) - five or six of them - have all allowed me to lead on stage.

Fair enough, you may prove me wrong. My experience was the opposite.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Fair enough, you may prove me wrong. My experience was the opposite.I must have struck lucky - or perhaps I just didn't notice them trying to backlead? hehehehe...

[Andy McGregor]

As a dance teacher I've been through the learning curve on this one.

I've tried to teach new beginners frame, proper lead and follow, etc - most of them don't come back :tears: However, if you teach them 4 moves that they get by the end of the 45 minute lesson they do come back :clap: This means you need to teach them something they will get in 45 mins: that is not technique. And, it means you need to teach the semi-circle-and-step-back to start the dance as there is not other connection between the two beginners :whistle:

Once people have been coming for a few months they want to improve their dancing and are really keen to learn technique. I do 2 hour technique workshops once a month which are really popular. BUT, if I'd tried to teach technique in week one most of those dancers in the technique workshop would have given up before they got to that stage.

I remember when I was at school and taught fencing. We spent our first half-term learning footwork and weren't allowed to try fencing until the second half term: we hated it. When we got to fight properly many of us loved it. But, given the choice we'd have stopped after week 2 - but we were at school and had to go. And, because we're not compelled to attend a dance class we are more likely to come back if we actually get to dance - so that is what we offer people at MJ classes - the opportunity to learn to dance in one night :wink:

[David Bailey]

I must have struck lucky - or perhaps I just didn't notice them trying to backlead? hehehehe...
No, I've not noticed any of my teachers backleading either when demo-ing for them - and it's probably a similar set to your teachers.

Maybe North London female teachers are just perfect? That must be it....

Honestly, if you're providing a good lead and have a good connection with the teacher, they've got enough to do trying to teach the class without having to backlead as well.

[Tellina]

I'm jealous. Can you make your trip "round the world" and visit Australia as well?

Also, check out www.cerocforum.com if you're interested in the Australian approach to teaching (and yes, we teach footwork).I really wish I could come to Australia! I have not been there yet but it would be such an amazing place to visit (and not just for the great MJ dancing either!)

I am definitely interested in the Australian approach to teaching; I'm interested in all the approaches to teaching! It has been so enlightening reading the posts on this forum as I see that there are many ways MJ can be taught and each way has its advantages and disadvantages. What I really love is that no one is, I think, saying that this way or that way is the "best" or "only" way to teach / learn / dance MJ. Such open-minded versitality is not found in other partner dances. :nice: