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DavidY
10th-August-2005, 09:05 PM
What about Hammersmith video...?.. so I got home tonight and saw a DVD shaped jiffy bag with Ceroc logo. That looks like the Hammersmith DVD I ordered, I thought.. :)

..but no. :( It wasn't the Hammersmith DVD. Nor (according to the letter contained therein) will there be one.

Am feeling a bit gutted because, amongst other things:
(a) I would have loved to see the "Art of Noise" showcase again and
(b) For once I got through a few rounds in the Lucky Dip - never got as far before and I probably never will again, so was really looking forward to having the DVD as a souvenir.

Oh and why was the package DVD shaped? Well I'm now the proud owner of a complimentary copy of "Shall We Dance" starring Richard Gere. :rolleyes:

ElaineB
10th-August-2005, 10:36 PM
2005 not being produced? That is awful!! :mad:

Simon and I made it through to the Semi's of the Advanced and really wanted a copy for posterity!

Elaine

Gus
11th-August-2005, 07:24 AM
2005 not being produced? That is awful!! :mad:

Simon and I made it through to the Semi's of the Advanced and really wanted a copy for posterity!

ElaineAgree. That is APPALLING! :angry: :angry: How can you run an event that some many peoples dreams are resting on, ban them from videoing, then make sure such memories are lost for ever???? I've tried to be supportive of Ceroc for their endeavours to improve the competition but if this is true they should get totally slated for this! If the 'little' competitions can get thuis right, how can an organisation like Ceroc screw up so badly?

Andy where are you?

DavidY
11th-August-2005, 08:10 AM
if this is true More detail...
Re: Champs 2005 DVD
We regretfully announce that the Champs 2005 DVD has been withdrawn from sale.
Due to unforeseen circumstances the supplier has been unable to complete production of this year's Championship DVD.
The information comes further to our correspondence in June when we had anticipated the release of this item to be at the end of July.
The problem occurred in the last stages of production and the supplier made all attempts to salvage the project. But unfortunately we have now had to cancel the entire order.
It is of great disappointment that we are not able to offer a souvenir of this year's competition.
Refunds
Payments made via credit card have not been processed.
Any payments made via cash on the day of the competition will be refunded the full amount via cheque.
Please find enclosed a complimentary copy of this years Shall We Dance film, staring Richard Gere, Susan Sarandon and Jennifer Lopez.
We are sorry for any disappointment and inconvenience you have been caused.
Next year the videoing of the event will be totally reviewed.

Minnie M
11th-August-2005, 08:22 AM
The same thing happend with JATW abut 4 years ago. I was so gutted as I featured dancing with the very special Dawn Hampton :worthy:

I was given a voucher and an apology for the full value I had given them to spend on another JATW - I haven't been there again and have now lost the voucher :tears: Double loss for me :mad: but totally, totally gutted no DVD :angry:

For the price we pay - why can't they get a true professional :angry: :mad:

Lory
11th-August-2005, 09:10 AM
I agree it's awful but I bet they're just as upset about it as everyone else!

I'm sure they wouldn't be doing it on purpose!

My daughter had the same thing happen when she produced a film for her A' level media, all her hard work, months of research, planning, filming on location, interviews and editing, amounted to NOTHING when the system she was working on at school crashed! :eek:

The school tried everything in their power to retrieve it, even getting in specialist Apple Mac technicians but to no avail. :sad:

Luckily for her, each stage of the work had been marked as she went along, it was just the final finished product that she lost but I can tell you, it was heartbreaking! :tears:

As the saying goes... Sh*t happens! :rolleyes:

ElaineB
11th-August-2005, 12:19 PM
Solution!!!

Get yer butts to the competition at Weston-Super-Mare next year! I have just been reviewing the DVD, which has been produced in 2 weeks and 4 days! I think it is due to be on general release after the week-end! :clap: I think Brighton came out quickly as well last year.


Elaine

Gus
11th-August-2005, 01:53 PM
Agree. That is APPALLING! :angry: :angry: How can you run an event that some many peoples dreams are resting on, ban them from videoing, then make sure such memories are lost for ever????


Originally Posted by Letter to me from Ceroc Head Office
Re: Champs 2005 DVD
We regretfully announce that the Champs 2005 DVD has been withdrawn from sale.
Due to unforeseen circumstances the supplier has been unable to complete production of this year's Championship DVD......It is of great disappointment that we are not able to offer a souvenir of this year's competition.
OK ... fair cop. Apologies for impugning Ceroc ... looks like they were caught out like everyone else. Here's hoping that future supplier selection is a bit more rigourous next year :rolleyes:

Just Wiggle
11th-August-2005, 01:57 PM
OOppps...I should really scoll down the page before starting a new thread! :blush:

Still pants though......

Wanted a reminder of the fact that I managed to bag Groovy Dancer in the lucky dip and get 2nd! :clap:

Don't think my luck will stretch to next year!!

Andy McGregor
11th-August-2005, 03:41 PM
Andy where are you?Here I am (I've been busy with work stuff). I have to say that you are sometimes unlucky with your choice of supplier. However, for Ceroc to continue to use the company that took over 8 months to produce last year's video was a questionable decision. Especially so when I know that they were approached by the company that produced the Britroc and WSM videos in mere weeks.

And, I find it hard to believe that the original tapes/DVDs or whatever was in the camera have been lost. I'm just guessing but it strikes me that the production company had no will to complete this project rather than anything else. My advice to Ceroc would be to examine their contract with Jellybean very carefully. The reputation of the Ceroc Champs has been damaged by the failure of their supplier - if I were Mike Ellard I would be speaking with my solicitor :angry:

cerocmetro
12th-August-2005, 04:49 AM
Solution!!!

Get yer butts to the competition at Weston-Super-Mare next year! I have just been reviewing the DVD, which has been produced in 2 weeks and 4 days! I think it is due to be on general release after the week-end! :clap: I think Brighton came out quickly as well last year.


Elaine

Jive Masters DVD 48 hours :whistle:

Of course the Champs video was as a disaster but it is not their fault. Ceroc has too many people who at the slightest opportunity jump down their throats. stop it don't gloat. :eek:

As Lory said, they (HQ) are as gutted as anyone else.

Actually, I have seen at least 4 videos from the champs. I have videod there every year for the past 5. They are probably the most relaxed of any organisation about videoing. I am also sure that the people who have lost out could be helped by a few forumites who did video it. I know 2 of you have shown me your videos :grin:

Andy McGregor
12th-August-2005, 11:04 AM
Ceroc has too many people who at the slightest opportunity jump down their throats. stop it don't gloat. :eek:And the reason for not gloating is? :confused: This brings us onto the question of why Ceroc has "has too many people who at the slightest opportunity jump down their throats"? Anyone got any suggestions as to why so many people feel that way about Ceroc? And, finally, why Adam thinks there is this high number of people who will gloat?

I'm still not convinced about the total loss of the original "rushes" as the AV industry calls them - the actual, original, that was in the camera. The only thing I can think of is that the production company had a fire. And, as that is a fine reason for the total loss, it would have been given to those concerned. It was not given as the reason, no reason was given at all!!! So, in the absence of a fire, what was the excuse of the company? :confused:

Mary
12th-August-2005, 11:31 AM
I am shocked by this as well. OK, it's not Ceroc HQ's total fault and I'm sure they are gutted, as it reflects badly on them as a company, but why did they continue to use a company who have produced such a sloppy, and poor product for them in the past, when there are other companys out there who have a proven track record for doing a creditable and efficient job?

As for Jellybean - I am speechless. As Andy rightly says there should be no reason why the original rushes would be lost except in the event of a natural disaster. The original rushes (americans call them 'dailies') are copied and then not touched again - unless you are originating on film when you do a 'neg. cut' once the final edit has been approved.

M

bigdjiver
12th-August-2005, 02:33 PM
Jive Masters DVD 48 hours :whistle:

Of course the Champs video was as a disaster but it is not their fault. Ceroc has too many people who at the slightest opportunity jump down their throats. stop it don't gloat. :eek:

As Lory said, they (HQ) are as gutted as anyone else.

Actually, I have seen at least 4 videos from the champs. I have videod there every year for the past 5. They are probably the most relaxed of any organisation about videoing. I am also sure that the people who have lost out could be helped by a few forumites who did video it. I know 2 of you have shown me your videos :grin:2005 reconstructed? Sounds good to me as one answer to "but what good is the forum?"

Seriously, some serious effort should be made to collate and preserve whatever can be saved. We only have to look at the reverance that the old Lindy clips are held in. When we get to old to dance ... When our grandchildren ask "How was in then ..."

El Salsero Gringo
19th-August-2005, 02:33 PM
Of course the Champs video was as a disaster but it is not their fault. Ceroc has too many people who at the slightest opportunity jump down their throats. stop it don't gloat. :eek:

As Lory said, they (HQ) are as gutted as anyone else. An interesting new angle on this is that I spoke to someone last night who claims to have seen the completed Champs video, and the reason that it hasn't been released is because of a financial dispute between the production company and Ceroc HQ.

Somebody, somewhere, is telling porkies.

David Bailey
19th-August-2005, 02:49 PM
An interesting new angle on this is that I spoke to someone last night who claims to have seen the completed Champs video, and the reason that it hasn't been released is because of a financial dispute between the production company and Ceroc HQ.
Ooh, even if it's not true, that's a great rumour - there'll be rumours floating around now for years about the Lost Champs DVD.

A bit like the Lost Dr Who Episodes, but with better dancers. :)

David Franklin
19th-August-2005, 02:53 PM
Ooh, even if it's not true, that's a great rumour - there'll be rumours floating around now for years about the Lost Champs DVD.

A bit like the Lost Dr Who Episodes, but with better dancers. :)Actually, I heard Davros and K9 did a wicked cabaret in one of those episodes...

Donna
19th-August-2005, 03:10 PM
You know...July last year, I picked up the Ceroc 2003 DVD from Nantwich and thought woooowwww!!! Absolutely aammaaazing...I would just love to give it a whirl and try to achieve something.

I started to improve on my dancing and had some helpful tips off some competitors including Lily B. :worthy: Even though I was convinced that the chances of me entering a big competition like that were very very slim...(as I was no where near ready) I thought forget it, and thought nothing more of it for months. Then when I met my partner, we decided to do it together which was rather exciting but I never thought with me we would get anywhere and just put it all down to experience.


A year after watching that DVD, I won third place in advanced
with Steve (my first ever dance comp) and was looking forward to being able to see it again on DVD....but how unlucky...it turns out that it couldn't be produced. I'm just sooo upset and I can't bare thinking about what's happened. :angry: :sad: :tears:

Mary
19th-August-2005, 03:56 PM
An interesting new angle on this is that I spoke to someone last night who claims to have seen the completed Champs video, and the reason that it hasn't been released is because of a financial dispute between the production company and Ceroc HQ.

Somebody, somewhere, is telling porkies.

And I would like to offer an apology to Jellybean for jumping to the wrong conclusions and putting them in a bad light for the wrong reasons. I don't think their previous products were that great, but I was wrong to accuse them of such gross unprofessionalism. :blush:

M

El Salsero Gringo
19th-August-2005, 05:10 PM
And I would like to offer an apology to Jellybean for jumping to the wrong conclusions and putting them in a bad light for the wrong reasons. I don't think their previous products were that great, but I was wrong to accuse them of such gross unprofessionalism. :blush:

MI didn't order the DVD, and I'm not in it - but if I were interested to find out what happened I'd contact Jellybean direct and ask what's going on.

(of course then I'd come back and tell all my Forum friends what they said.)

Donna
24th-August-2005, 01:01 PM
Update on Hammersmith DVD - What I DO know, is that Jellybean HAD done the dvd - it was all finished.

I'm not sure about all the details surrounding the financial dispute. I've heard Jellybeans side of the story but because I only know his side and not Ceroc's, I wouldn't want to state any of it as fact.

Jellybean says that Ceroc staff refused to give him the help that Mike Ellard had promised him on producing the dvd. So production initially took longer than it should.

Then Ceroc refused to pay him the agreed price for the dvd because so many fewer people than expected had ordered it and paying Jellybean the full price would have meant a financial loss to Ceroc.

Ceroc tried to negotiate a lower payment, which is not on. So, rather than either lose face or suffer financial loss, Ceroc stopped sales of the dvd altogether and blamed it on Jellybean.

As I said, I don't know if all the above is 100% true or not, but I certainly believe Jellybean over Mike Ellard & co. And I do know for a fact that Ceroc have lied about the masters being lost etc.

Anyone who is interested to know the full details might want to see if you can get in touch with Jellybean directly (details on the back of other dvd's?)

Donna

Gus
24th-August-2005, 01:18 PM
Jellybean says that Ceroc staff refused to give him the help that Mike Ellard had promised him on producing the dvd. So production initially took longer than it should.

Then Ceroc refused to pay him the agreed price for the dvd because so many fewer people than expected had ordered it and paying Jellybean the full price would have meant a financial loss to Ceroc.

Ceroc tried to negotiate a lower payment, which is not on. So, rather than either lose face or suffer financial loss, Ceroc stopped sales of the dvd altogether and blamed it on Jellybean.

As I said, I don't know if all the above is 100% true or not, but I certainly believe Jellybean over Mike Ellard & co. And I do know for a fact that Ceroc have lied about the masters being lost etc.
HMMMMMM ... well, somewhere there seems to be a strong case for libel (or is it slander?) ....

BUT aside from that, this is one very clear case where the TRUTH neds to come out. EITHER Jellybean are making excuses OR a premier Modern Jive organisation has made much a HUGE misrepresentation that they will NEVER be trusted again. Let battle commence .... OK ... who's bringng the Pringles and the ring-side seats?

Will
24th-August-2005, 01:36 PM
Not wanting to get embroiled in all this, I'm going to leave it to someone else to fill in the blanks, but I've spoken to Bradders and heard a very different account of what happened.

I've got no way of knowing for sure who is telling the truth, but I would say at this stage that after what happened last year, I'm more inclined to believe Ceroc.

As far as I know, the masters haven't been lost, they just haven't been given to Ceroc by Jellybean.

Donna
24th-August-2005, 02:20 PM
HMMMMMM ... well, somewhere there seems to be a strong case for libel (or is it slander?) ....

BUT aside from that, this is one very clear case where the TRUTH neds to come out. EITHER Jellybean are making excuses OR a premier Modern Jive organisation has made much a HUGE misrepresentation that they will NEVER be trusted again. Let battle commence .... OK ... who's bringng the Pringles and the ring-side seats?

What about the popcorn??? :grin:

bigdjiver
28th-August-2005, 01:21 AM
One of the ways I consoled myself on missing the championships was that when my financial circumstances took a turn for the better I could buy the DVD. The sales of material related to the championships could actually grow through the years. What price now for a clip of a dance off between Shorty George and Frankie Manning?
One way a business can dominate its market is by the ownership of intellectual property. Literature, artwork, video and computer programs are all protected by copyright. In my book a company should ensure that it owns the copyright of any of these associated with its business. I suspect that video film organisations work in a similar way to (most?) wedding photographers, where they retain the copyright of the video. I did a bit of amatuer movie making long ago, and have sat through shows of movies made by amatuer film makers. A very toughening experience. The vast majority could recorded a scene perfectly well, it was the choice of shot and editing that let them down. Some were working towards a professional career, and deserved to have one. I have to believe that somewhere amongst our membership there are people that have the ability to do the job, with an eye on the long term. If there are not, then perhaps Ceroc should target a bit of marketing at that sector. I have seen many super clips of swing dancing on the web, and it grieves me that I cannot give several links to MJ clips. It is one of the things on my "todo" pile.