What motivates you to dance at venues?

[New_to_London]

Historically, dance has been a popular mechanism for men and women to meet one another. It would be interesting to hear people’s views on how applicable this is to Ceroc dancing. The underlying question is how much of a motivating factor this is in Ceroc venues.

To this end, I have created a poll for both men and women. To reduce statistical skewing of the results, try to choose the 5 most important motivating factors (no more, no less) from the applicable male or female group of choices. And, be honest :-) The individual choices will remain private.

[Donna]

Historically, dance has been a popular mechanism for men and women to meet one another. It would be interesting to hear people’s views on how applicable this is to Ceroc dancing. The underlying question is how much of a motivating factor this is in Ceroc venues.

To this end, I have created a poll for both men and women. To reduce statistical skewing of the results, try to choose the 5 most important motivating factors (no more, no less) from the applicable male or female group of choices. And, be honest :-) The individual choices will remain private.

Most people I know have only gone to MJ classes to pull...once successful, you never see them much, either that or never again. Personally I go for the pleasure of it, cuz I'm just so obsessed by dancing. :nice:

[tsh]

I'm starting to see a bit of a recurring theme here with your posts!

I don't think I have 5 reasons for going to ceroc... I just go to dance!

Sean

[Zebra Woman]

:clap: :drool: THE MUSIC. :drool: :clap:

Where's the option for that?

I choose where to dance based on who is the DJ, and which friends are going be there to enjoy it with me.

Simple as that.

[under par]

:clap: :drool: THE MUSIC. :drool: :clap:

Where's the option for that?

I choose where to dance based on who is the DJ, and which friends are going be there to enjoy it with me.

Simple as that.


I didn't realise zebras could mind read or have telepathy.

Ditto the above for me an obvious option.

[ducasi]

To this question: "what motivates you to come to a Ceroc venue?"

I limited myself to 5 choices, but otherwise I'd have ticked all of choices 2 to 9. The fun of dancing is the most important thing for me, but the thought that I might meet the right woman for me certainly helps. :wink:

The title of the thread though is... "what motivates you to dance at venues?"

Once I'm there it's the music that makes me want to dance. :nice:

[Andreas]

Most people I know have only gone to MJ classes to pull...once successful, you never see them much, either that or never again. Personally I go for the pleasure of it, cuz I'm just so obsessed by dancing. :nice:

:yeah:

Though, the choice of venue is usually solely down to music ... kinda 'best choice of the day'.

[spindr]

Where's the "there's nowt on tv" and "it's on the way to tescos" options?

SpinDr

[Lynn]

The music is top reason for me too. The music at a particular venue will influence the dance experience I have. (Like I have a choice of venues here! :rofl: ) The other dancers likely to be there would also be a factor, eg if I knew friends were going. And convenience for travel is a factor in choosing a venue. And the venue itself as well, floor, aircon, water options. And how I am treated as a customer.

I don't have a choice of venues here, but I think those would be the factors if I did.

Like many polls on this forum, its not going to be representative of the range of dancers actually at venues. There are a much higher proportion of dance addicts on here than you would probably get at an 'average' night.

[Lynn]

I was thinking about the 'interested in meeting new people' bit - presumably that meaning in the social, rather than romantic sense - and I think if you didn't like meeting new people - if you just wanted to go with one person and never dance with anyone else - you could still enjoy yourself, but would miss out on an important part of the MJ world - that you can dance with total strangers and have a great shared experience.

[Baruch]

I couldn't tick 5 because only options 2, 3 and 11 apply to me. I go purely for the music and the dancing, nothing else. Yes, I've made friends and acquaintances through dancing, but that's not my motivation for going.

Another reason that wasn't on the poll is to improve as a dancer. That's probably my main motivation.

[ducasi]

How can people say it's the music that makes them go to a particular venue, or whatever?

Surely it's the dancing to that music that you mean, otherwise you might as well sit at home with your own music collection which it's guaranteed you'll like!

And if its the dancing to the music you like, answer #3, not #11/12 is the one you want!

:confused:

[Zebra Woman]

How can people say it's the music that makes them go to a particular venue, or whatever?

Surely it's the dancing to that music that you mean, otherwise you might as well sit at home with your own music collection which it's guaranteed you'll like!

And if its the dancing to the music you like, answer #3, not #11/12 is the one you want!

:confused:

It really is the music.

I did say.


I choose where to dance based on who is the DJ, and which friends are going be there to enjoy it with me.

Once my mates and I have decided where the best music for us is that's when we work on filling up cars and persuading others to join us. As you correctly observe - music without people to dance with is not nearly as much fun.

We are also wary of keeping numbers even too. Driving 100 miles round trip for fantastic music but having two or even three women to every man makes for a very frustrating evening. :tears: We have already spent two hours in the car sitting :what: - so more sitting is not what we want to be doing.

Conversely ignoring the music and getting together with friends at a venue because it is close or has a late finish can lead to a nightmare evening as you can have your favourite dancers but nothing that inspires you to dance. For me that's the worst possible scenario. So I try choose music above everything else and not get distracted by the other factors.

[Lynn]

It really is the music. :yeah:

[ducasi]

It really is the music.

...

Once my mates and I have decided where the best music for us is that's when we work on filling up cars and persuading others to join us. As you correctly observe - music without people to dance with is not nearly as much fun.

In that case, you'd be happy sitting with your friends at a venue with your favourite music and not dancing at all?

No? Well it's not the music then – it's the dancing!

I can understand that you might choose one venue over another based on the music, but that's not what the question was...

[azande]

No, it's the music.... I probably would not be interested in Southport if I knew there wasn't a blues room...

[Clive Long]

In that case, you'd be happy sitting with your friends at a venue with your favourite music and not dancing at all?

No? Well it's not the music then – it's the dancing!

I can understand that you might choose one venue over another based on the music, but that's not what the question was...
Steady. Steady. You are starting to sound like ESG.

[Lynn]

I can understand that you might choose one venue over another based on the music, but that's not what the question was... Either way you look at the question - its still the music for me. If its what motivates me to choose a particular venue (if there is a choice) then the music likely to be played there is a big reason. If its what motivates me to get up and dance when at a venue - its still the music. (In fact if some songs come on I have even been known to overcome my shyness and ask a man, because I really want to dance to that particular track).

[Lynn]

No, it's the music.... I probably would not be interested in Southport if I knew there wasn't a blues room... I love it too, but Southport also ticks all the boxes for me in terms of people who are there, venue, customer service etc.

[Zebra Woman]

In that case, you'd be happy sitting with your friends at a venue with your favourite music and not dancing at all?

No? Well it's not the music then – it's the dancing!

I can understand that you might choose one venue over another based on the music, but that's not what the question was...

Yes I said it's the dancing to the MUSIC..... :rolleyes:

But if I don't like the music I won't want to dance and often neither will they.

I was perplexed by the all the options on this poll, so many factors that I wouldn't really be bothered about and the big main factor was missing, that's all. :confused: .

[BeeBee]

How can people say it's the music that makes them go to a particular venue, or whatever?

Surely it's the dancing to that music that you mean, otherwise you might as well sit at home with your own music collection which it's guaranteed you'll like!

And if its the dancing to the music you like, answer #3, not #11/12 is the one you want!

:confused:

My music collection is so pants that the only way I would get a chance to listen to the music being played (which I really like, and I really like dancing to is to go to the venue. Chicken and egg maybe, but the music motivates me to dance so to hear the music, and get the dance, I;ve got to go the venue.

Make sense?? :confused:

[Chef]

In that case, you'd be happy sitting with your friends at a venue with your favourite music and not dancing at all?

No? Well it's not the music then – it's the dancing!

I can understand that you might choose one venue over another based on the music, but that's not what the question was...

No Ducasi it really realy is the music. The dancing flows from the music. With poor uninspiring music the dancing just doesn't happen for me.

This is why I won't dance to things like the birdy song, call on me, or the sound of a metronome. You CAN dance to them. I would just find them uninteresting to dance to.

So if the music is pooh it doesn't matter to me who else is at the dance, what price the drinks are, how long I spent on the motorway, if it has air con, or how luxurious the chalets are. If the music is pooh I won't be there (again).

Some time ago I expressed a dancers taste in music to the way a persons taste in food changes as they grow.

When you are and infant your food is mashed, balanced and homogenised. It lacks texture and is a confusion of simple flavours, but it sustains life.

As you get a bit older you are onto the kids menu of chicken nuggets and chips, sausage and chips, beans and chips. There are some different textures but they are limited as is the range of flavours.

In full maturity you know which dishes of Thia, japanese, Indian or mongolian food you like. You know if you like wine that has been oaked or not. Chicken nuggets and chips is not top of your list of favorite foods. You can understand the complexity and sublety of these dishes and you enjoy that. It would be hard to live on homogenised baby food again.

It is all about the music. All else flows from that.

[ducasi]

Steady. Steady. You are starting to sound like ESG.
:na:

OK, but before I throw a strop and storm out of here, the actual question was "what motivates you to come to a Ceroc venue?" I take that to mean "why do you go Ceroc dancing?" And my answer is "to dance!"

And, personally, if it were just about the music I'd go clubbing or stay at home and listen to my own music choice. That's the best guarantee of music I really like, and will really like dancing to.

[Simon r]

:na:

OK, but before I throw a strop and storm out of here, the actual question was "what motivates you to come to a Ceroc venue?" I take that to mean "why do you go Ceroc dancing?" And my answer is "to dance!"

And, personally, if it were just about the music I'd go clubbing or stay at home and listen to my own music choice. That's the best guarantee of music I really like, and will really like dancing to.
sorry to say this means you are still on mashed food see above

[under par]

No Ducasi it really realy is the music. The dancing flows from the music. With poor uninspiring music the dancing just doesn't happen for me.

This is why I won't dance to things like the birdy song, call on me, or the sound of a metronome. You CAN dance to them. I would just find them uninteresting to dance to.

So if the music is pooh it doesn't matter to me who else is at the dance, what price the drinks are, how long I spent on the motorway, if it has air con, or how luxurious the chalets are. If the music is pooh I won't be there (again).

Some time ago I expressed a dancers taste in music to the way a persons taste in food changes as they grow.

When you are and infant your food is mashed, balanced and homogenised. It lacks texture and is a confusion of simple flavours, but it sustains life.

As you get a bit older you are onto the kids menu of chicken nuggets and chips, sausage and chips, beans and chips. There are some different textures but they are limited as is the range of flavours.

In full maturity you know which dishes of Thia, japanese, Indian or mongolian food you like. You know if you like wine that has been oaked or not. Chicken nuggets and chips is not top of your list of favorite foods. You can understand the complexity and sublety of these dishes and you enjoy that. It would be hard to live on homogenised baby food again.

It is all about the music. All else flows from that.

Well said Chef :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

The music wins everytime for me.

Have some rep for great post. :flower:

[Zebra Woman]

No Ducasi it really realy is the music. ...

snip/..snip/

It is all about the music. All else flows from that.

:yeah: Yeah to all of that. Listen to the CHEF :what:

Call On Me = Chicken Nugget :sick:


Won't You Join Me For A Drink = Proper Food :yum: :drool:

Sorry Mick :rofl:

[under par]

:yeah: Yeah to all of that. Listen to the CHEF :what:

Call On Me = Chicken Nugget :sick:


Won't You Join Me For A Drink = Proper Food :yum: :drool:

Sorry Mick :rofl:

Don't be sorry Alison :angry:

Call On Me = Contents of child pewk... :rofl:

[Donna]

Some time ago I expressed a dancers taste in music to the way a persons taste in food changes as they grow.

When you are and infant your food is mashed, balanced and homogenised. It lacks texture and is a confusion of simple flavours, but it sustains life.

As you get a bit older you are onto the kids menu of chicken nuggets and chips, sausage and chips, beans and chips. There are some different textures but they are limited as is the range of flavours.

In full maturity you know which dishes of Thia, japanese, Indian or mongolian food you like. You know if you like wine that has been oaked or not. Chicken nuggets and chips is not top of your list of favorite foods. You can understand the complexity and sublety of these dishes and you enjoy that. It would be hard to live on homogenised baby food again.

Buurlimmey....that er, sets a very good example. :rofl: you can tell he's a chef can't you??


No Ducasi it really realy is the music. The dancing flows from the music. With poor uninspiring music the dancing just doesn't happen for me.

I find that if when they play a really hot track, you find you really get into it, therefor you interpret the music better. So yeah, it is the music that makes you dance better because obviously you're enjoying it. Even if a track I'm not so keen on is playing then I still dance to it...because I want to dance. So either really. Some people go just to dance no matter what the music is like, because for competitors they have to be willing to dance and try and get into any style of music. Practice makes perfect. Social dancers of course I guess are the ones who just go for the music.

[Zebra Woman]

"what motivates you to come to a Ceroc venue?"



THE MUSIC

[Donna]

:na:

OK, but before I throw a strop and storm out of here, the actual question was "what motivates you to come to a Ceroc venue?" I take that to mean "why do you go Ceroc dancing?" And my answer is "to dance!"

And, personally, if it were just about the music I'd go clubbing or stay at home and listen to my own music choice. That's the best guarantee of music I really like, and will really like dancing to.

You know ducasi...now everyone's gonna think you're a girl!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I knew you'd change it. (shakes head) tut tut tut. :rolleyes:

[LMC]

sorry to say this means you are still on mashed food see above
I love that food analogy.

I'm still mainly on mashed food too, but am at the stage of experimenting with chicken nuggets and chips... and throwing temper tantrums at myself because I can't yet "take" the exotic stuff - but it sure looks (sounds!) good, looking forward to being able to keep up :nice:

[Lynn]

OK, but before I throw a strop and storm out of here, the actual question was "what motivates you to come to a Ceroc venue?" I take that to mean "why do you go Ceroc dancing?" And my answer is "to dance!" Taking the same angle that you could just sit at home and listen to the music - likewise you could say if its only the dancing, why go to a venue? Why not just get one friend round to your house and dance with them? Or if its social, why not just go and sit in the pub?

Well you could say why do you like MJ dancing (compared to other dance styles)? The appeal for me right from the start was the range of music you can dance to. For me the dancing and the music are inseparable. The dancing expresses the music - so the music you dance to is an integral part of your experience of dance.

[Simon r]

:na:

OK, but before I throw a strop and storm out of here, the actual question was "what motivates you to come to a Ceroc venue?" I take that to mean "why do you go Ceroc dancing?" And my answer is "to dance!"

And, personally, if it were just about the music I'd go clubbing or stay at home and listen to my own music choice. That's the best guarantee of music I really like, and will really like dancing to.

Ok to add my two pence

If i make my way to a venue I will also look at the music first ..

I need to feel i can play with the music and make each dance as emotional as i can therefore both stimulating different shapes and movement,

I do not want a monotone sound given to me ..

I need stops mixing of beats and sounds

If you are move orientated then I believe you will seek and enjoy singular sounds with a strong beat..

If you want to dance and have fun with your partner without a move fest then you require motivational music.
The best I know is TWK, lounge Lizard, Eric, Annette and most recently Mark...

These guys and gals search for new off beat music which makes them (for me) the djs I will follow
For a lot of dancers, these djs become questionable for there play lists, but I believe they are mostly adding these tracks in for the few not the masses.
As a few forumites have explained they are music orientated and I would guess for these reasons.
Simon

[Donna]

Taking the same angle that you could just sit at home and listen to the music - likewise you could say if its only the dancing, why go to a venue? Why not just get one friend round to your house and dance with them? Or if its social, why not just go and sit in the pub?

Er, it wouldn't quite have the same atmosphere now would it?? That's it!! That's the answer to the question on this thread, it the atmosphere mostly!! :grin:

[ducasi]

OK, so some people's first motivation for going to a dance venue is the music and not dancing... That's cool.

I just think you've got things a bit backwards... :shrug:

Re: the comparison of music tastes vs. food tastes.

I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is...

As a mature adult, I have mature tastes both in food and music. But as well as enjoying fancy "challenging" foods, I like the odd burger. Likewise, I like music which challenges me – emotionally, or just to dance to. I also like to listen and dance to hamburger music now and then when I don't want to be challenged.

I don't disagree that Call on Me is a little basic in structure, but it does it for me. I'd reject any claim that all of (what I'd call) dance music is "child pewk" as elitist, patronising nonsense.

[Zebra Woman]

The best I know is TWK, lounge Lizard, Eric, Annette and most recently Mark...

These guys and gals search for new off beat music which makes them (for me) the djs I will follow
For a lot of dancers, these djs become questionable for there play lists, but I believe they are mostly adding these tracks in for the few not the masses.
As a few forumites have explained they are music orientated and I would guess for these reasons.
Simon

(it's Marc with a c)

Yes I would add Robin and Tezi, Bob Gadget (on a good day), Latin Ian, Sheena, DD, Jon Baker, John Ford, and Joe Smooth to that list....more too if I had a little think.

'Questionable' for the masses? Now that is exactly what I'm looking for! :devil:

[Lynn]

OK, so some people's first motivation for going to a dance venue is the music and not dancing... That's cool. No, no, no!! :tears: Its dancing to the music that's the point!! The music inspires the dancing!

[Simon r]

(it's Marc with a c)

Yes I would add Robin and Tezi, Bob Gadget (on a good day), Latin Ian, Sheena, DD, Jon Baker, John Ford, and Joe Smooth to that list....more too if I had a little think.

'Questionable' for the masses? Now that is exactly what I'm looking for! :devil:

you could add more but these guys were first and seek new insperations away from the Jive scene and i meant from a personal point of view...
I also want a consistant DJ ( i know what i am getting) they stick to there guns as forward thinking and will not be pushed by pier pressure ( the masses)
Again more respect to the DJ's i have named and know, i belive there ethos is that they would not play music they did not like themselves....

[Chef]

OK, so some people's first motivation for going to a dance venue is the music and not dancing... That's cool.

I just think you've got things a bit backwards... :shrug:

Firstly the title of the thread makes no mention of Ceroc. It is not the only MJ dance organisation on the planet - just the only one you know at the moment.

I go to a venue for the dancing as my aim. But pooh music does not allow interesting dancing. Good music ENABLES good dancing. Pooh music is played at venues because it is easy to dance to, because it is homogenous, provides a noise that hides the sound of stamping feet and won't do thing that frigthens the beginner.


Re: the comparison of music tastes vs. food tastes.

I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is...

As a mature adult, I have mature tastes both in food and music. But as well as enjoying fancy "challenging" foods, I like the odd burger. Likewise, I like music which challenges me – emotionally, or just to dance to. I also like to listen and dance to hamburger music now and then when I don't want to be challenged.

The point is that although we have followed your weblog about your exploits in dancing over the last sixish months by our way of thinking you are still on the baby food stage (possibly moving into the chicken nuggets and chips) where you might be faced with a Jalfrezi of a peice of music but you would still dance a chicken nuggets and chips sort of dance to it.

It is the sort of scenario that I see many places. Breaks occur in a peice of music and almost the whole room charges straight through it every time like they just don't exist. People put drops into their dance at places where the music doesn't suggest it (catching the woman totally by surprise). In short, MOST people don't even know what to do with the chicken nuggets and chips style of music - they just do MOVES. All they need is the homogenised baby food music and it frightens them less.



I don't disagree that Call on Me is a little basic in structure, but it does it for me. I'd reject any claim that all of (what I'd call) dance music is "child pewk" as elitist, patronising nonsense.

When you have danced to this "child pewk" music for 5-6 years I would be interested to hear if you opinion of it has changed. As I said in the food analogy - what you find interesting changes as you outgrow what have been used to.

Elitist? Nobody is stopping you from listening to intersting dance music.

Patronising? You should read your weblog and see how you now talk about some beginners that you meet, only 6 months down the line from when you was in the self same position.

Nonsense? Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense to me. I have the same problem when I teach chemistry to university students. I understand it but they don't yet. That doesn't make it nonsense.

Happy dancing

[MartinHarper]

OK, so some people's first motivation for going to a dance venue is the music and not dancing... That's cool.

Well, I went to see the Jive Aces play at a Ceroc venue, and that was a case of going to hear the music first, and dancing to it second. Suppose they had played great music, but it was all (eg) too fast for me to dance to. I'd have been dissappointed, but it wouldn't have completely ruined the night for me.

By contrast, if I go to a DJ'd night, the music is a factor, but not the primary motivation. If the DJ played a range of fantastic music, but it was all (eg) too fast for me to dance to, that would ruin the night for me. Like ducasi, it's dancing to the music that motivates me, rather than listening to the music.


this means you are still on mashed food

Personally, I only dance to classical music.

[MartinHarper]

Firstly the title of the thread makes no mention of Ceroc.

Very true. On the other hand:


Poll: What motivates you to come to a Ceroc venue? (choose 5 from appropriate m/f group)

[Simon r]

Personally, I only dance to classical music.[/QUOTE]


That will explain how you were dancing off the beat at southport then.....

[Donna]

No, no, no!! :tears: Its dancing to the music that's the point!! The music inspires the dancing!

I agree. :)

[Donna]

. But pooh music does not allow interesting dancing. Good music ENABLES good dancing.

As I said before. :)





. The point is that although we have followed your weblog about your exploits in dancing over the last sixish months by our way of thinking you are still on the baby food stage (possibly moving into the chicken nuggets and chips) where you might be faced with a Jalfrezi of a peice of music but you would still dance a chicken nuggets and chips sort of dance to it.

You're so hilarious!! :rofl: You know all this talk about food is making me hungry... :drool: and I've just had my dinner!!!


. It is the sort of scenario that I see many places. Breaks occur in a peice of music and almost the whole room charges straight through it every time like they just don't exist.

Yeah it's exactly the same in my venue and some other venue around the NW and it really cheeses me off!!! :angry: :angry: :angry: They obviously don't listen to the music and are just dancing. Mind you, it does help if you know the music as well to know when the break is coming up, but even if I don't know the track that is being played, I can sense one coming up...and strangely enough, I always seem to get it right.

[killingtime]

No, no, no!! :tears: Its dancing to the music that's the point!! The music inspires the dancing!

Maybe the form of dancing inspired the music to be written in the first place :D.


You know ducasi...now everyone's gonna think you're a girl!! I knew you'd change it. (shakes head) tut tut tut.

Presumably that's why he put "I'm a bloke, living in Glasgow". But maybe, in fact, ducasi is a girl, who looks like Cameron Diaz, who doesn't want any attention... what are you doing on Friday, ducasi? :rofl:

The music isn't the primary reason I go, I am often on the dance floor before I even know what a song is and I'll dance to anything. I like particular tunes and styles but if the DJ didn't fancy playing that sort of stuff then it wouldn't be a show stopper.

[ducasi]

Firstly the title of the thread makes no mention of Ceroc. It is not the only MJ dance organisation on the planet - just the only one you know at the moment. No, but it is mentioned in the poll's question.

My point way, way back was the difference in motivation from going to a dance venue, to the motivation to dance at a dance venue.

Of course, it's the music that makes you want to dance or not, but I'd argue it's the love of dance that takes you there in the first place.

The choice of venue wasn't part of the question.

I think the only real thing we're disagreeing on is what is "good" music and what is "pooh" music. I may well change my opinion of what is good music to (Ceroc) dance to, but I really don't think I'll change my opinion of what music I like to listen to and (club-style) dance to. Unlike some people on this forum, my enjoyment of going clubbing hasn't changed despite my introduction to partner dancing. This may be because I simply prefer the music there.

I've been "dancing" to this "child pewk" music for more years than I care to recall, and I haven't outgrown it yet. That may be because it continuously surprises me with its variety, colour, depth, sound, emotion, and impact.

In the Ceroc venues I attend I'm lucky enough to enjoy the DJ's that seem to be very highly rated around here for playing "good" ("challenging") music. Full of breaks, and all sorts of things. I'm pleased to say I'm beginning to be better at dancing to their music, using the breaks, all that kind of stuff. Still can't beat the feeling I get when I'm going at it, fast on some storming club dance track.

Patronising? You should read your weblog and see how you now talk about some beginners that you meet, only 6 months down the line from when you was in the self same position. I've read it, thanks. I think I'm now much more understanding and appreciative of beginners now than I was when I started Ceroc. I love dancing with them. I'm just not very tolerant of people who don't listen to what's being told to them in class and aren't prepared to learn.

Nonsense? Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense to me. I have the same problem when I teach chemistry to university students. I understand it but they don't yet. That doesn't make it nonsense. So you understand music and I don't?

[Simon r]

As I said before. :)



Yeah it's exactly the same in my venue and some other venue around the NW and it really cheeses me off!!! :angry: :angry: :angry: They obviously don't listen to the music and are just dancing. Mind you, it does help if you know the music as well to know when the break is coming up, but even if I don't know the track that is being played, I can sense one coming up...and strangely enough, I always seem to get it right.


For some people this can be in built have just started teaching a newbie who has never danced before yet he has fantastic musicality and can read the music so well even though he has never heard most of the tracks before...
Some are just natural....

[ducasi]

what are you doing on Friday, ducasi? :rofl: Washing my hair! :na:

[Donna]

what are you doing on Friday, ducasi? :rofl:

Most probably fantasising about Cameron!! Yeah, maybe he dresses up as cameron and then kisses himself in the mirror pretending it's her?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


The music isn't the primary reason I go, I am often on the dance floor before I even know what a song is and I'll dance to anything.

And so that's how it should be.

[MartinHarper]

That will explain how you were dancing off the beat at southport then.....

To extend the food analogy, I'm used to dancing to chopsticks, not eating with them.

[Donna]

To extend the food analogy, I'm used to dancing to chopsticks, not eating with them.

HA HA HA!! Funny I was discussing this earlier with somone. I most probably stand a better chance dancing to chopsticks than using them too. :rofl:

[Simon r]

To extend the food analogy, I'm used to dancing to chopsticks, not eating with them.

hmm just looks like you are dancing on them not to them...

[Donna]

hmm just looks like you are dancing on them

:rofl: :rofl:

[ducasi]

Most probably fantasising about Cameron!! After seeing your picture, I may have a new fantasy figure... :drool: :wink:

[Simon r]

After seeing your picture, I may have a new fantasy figure... :drool: :wink:

run away run like the wind .....

Stalker alert

[Donna]

After seeing your picture, I may have a new fantasy figure... :drool: :wink:

AAAAHHHHHH!!!!! :eek: :blush: :blush:

Uhhhh, I'M A BLOKE, I'M A BLOKE IN DISGUISE. :rofl: :rofl:


Anyway I didn't know ice creams could fantasise!!!! :D :D :D

[ducasi]

AAAAHHHHHH!!!!!Anyway I didn't know ice creams could fantasise!!!! :D :D :D Ice-creams have fantasies about people licking them. :yum: :wink:

[Zebra Woman]

Ice-creams have fantasies about people licking them. :yum: :wink:

:yeah: :rofl:


I reckon if you mosey over to the singletons sofa, you'll last about 2 minutes.

[Chef]

So you understand music and I don't?

I don't know if you understand music. You Could be a music teacher for all I know. It is just that I would be very surprised, after reading your weblog, that you understood how to dance TO music. This is why I object to you telling Us(me) that our rejection of "child pewk" music is "elitist patronising nonsense". We suffer this "child pewk" music night after night for many years and it makes us gag just like the thought of having to have baby food for every meal.

Before you rush to reply.

Make a trip to the Southport weekender. Go to the swing and blues room at about 2am and watch for 30 minutes.

Then tell me that you understand how to dance TO music.

[curvy lady]

oohhh pop corn time...

[Lory]

I also want a consistant DJ ( i know what i am getting) they stick to there guns as forward thinking and will not be pushed by pier pressure ( the masses)

:yeah: In Dance demon's thread 'how do you win' I made a slightly flippant remark


Advertise what sorts of genre your going to play and stick to it, then the people who like it will come :) and the people who don't, wont! :cool:

You shouldn't get any complaints that way :D

BUT the trouble with this is, your narrowing your market and probably won't attract enough people to make a profit! :tears: Catch 22! :rolleyes:
But in reality, I think this is exactly what Dj's like TWK are doing, therefore, they have a dedicated following of people who like the stuff he plays, and he rarely gets complaints, cos we KNOW what to expect before we turn up.

We know it won't be main stream, we know some of it will be experimental BUT we know he's ready to hear honest feedback AND to react to it! ;)

Selfishly, over the last few months I've come to wish that's what more DJ's would do, state what market they're aiming at and stick to their guns.

Then I won't be disappointed when I'm promised to hear stuff 'I' like, then, 'other stuff', is mixed in all over the place to cover EVERYONE else's tastes, :sad: like fast lindy, country or call on me!.

To me, it waters it down for everyone. The lindy lover isn't fully happy, nor the country lover and the people who like the Chicken Nugget mix aren't happy either!

When DJ's say they're going to play a blues set for the last hour and we get four lushious tracks then BANG a fast couple are slung in, it just does my head in! :(

[New_to_London]

How can people say it's the music that makes them go to a particular venue, or whatever?

Surely it's the dancing to that music that you mean, otherwise you might as well sit at home with your own music collection which it's guaranteed you'll like!

And if its the dancing to the music you like, answer #3, not #11/12 is the one you want!

:confused:
ducasi is absolutely right. That’s why I didn’t include music when I originally posted this poll / thread. (The additional choice magically appeared on its own. :-)

Music is, of course, an integral, inseparable part of dance. It evokes a direct emotional response in most people that inspires the dancing. Yet, the particular choice of music--what people like and dislike--varies tremendously from person to person.

And, because in many cases there is no logical basis upon which to argue that one particular musical style or piece is “better” than another--it is purely an emotional thing--this inevitably results in heated debates. :-)

I actually have a music background, have played several instruments, had music theory, and played in an amateur symphony orchestra and quartet when I was younger. But, I was raised on classical music. While I do enjoy a lot of contemporary music, I only find a small percentage of the pieces played at most venues truly inspiring. And, some of the music that is incredibly popular at some nightclubs, I find quite revolting. It is all personal taste--and it does change with time.

Personally, I am quite willing to “tolerate” music I consider boring or uninspiring, just for the dance experience. After all, most people would probably not enjoy Ceroc dancing to the music I might like to listen to. :-) So, it is a compromise.

Because one can listen to any music of his choosing almost anywhere, with today’s technology, it can hardly be an underlying motivation--in and of itself--for going to a Ceroc venue. It does, of course, influence the overall dance experience, which is option #3. The other options are potential motives because they may be more scarce outside of the dance venue, depending on a person’s circumstances.

[Donna]

I don't know if you understand music. You Could be a music teacher for all I know. It is just that I would be very surprised, after reading your weblog, that you understood how to dance TO music. This is why I object to you telling Us(me) that our rejection of "child pewk" music is "elitist patronising nonsense". We suffer this "child pewk" music night after night for many years and it makes us gag just like the thought of having to have baby food for every meal.

Before you rush to reply.

Make a trip to the Southport weekender. Go to the swing and blues room at about 2am and watch for 30 minutes.

Then tell me that you understand how to dance TO music.

Luurve swing and blues!!! :drool:

[PJH]

...We suffer this "child pewk" music night after night for many years and it makes us gag just like the thought of having to have baby food for every meal.


But then again you've got to think of the babies and children; Try giving a baby hot curries, and they'd probably consider not eating as an option.
I find is it's quite nice having songs without breaks, is i'm now aware about breaks but not quite got hitting them, is I don't have to worry about missing them and dancing blithely through.
What also motivates me to dance at venues is having space, I like ISH, but last week I felt like a sardine, and found it hard to cope when they celebrated the fact they'd the highest attendance ever at 200.
P

[mooncalf]

But then again you've got to think of the babies and children; Try giving a baby hot curries, and they'd probably consider not eating as an option.
I find is it's quite nice having songs without breaks, is i'm now aware about breaks but not quite got hitting them, is I don't have to worry about missing them and dancing blithely through.
What also motivates me to dance at venues is having space, I like ISH, but last week I felt like a sardine, and found it hard to cope when they celebrated the fact they'd the highest attendance ever at 200.
P

You do yourself a disservice PJH, I've seen you hitting breaks quite consistently, in fact I might start dancing watching you over my partners shoulder so I have some as clue as to what I should be doing. You're not hard to spot after all.

[clevedonboy]

Me - I just go anywhere there's a dance. I like it if there's music I like but I'll tolerate most stuff. "Call on Me" and "Red Light" (Billy Ocean) I just hate though so don't dance to along with Sweet Home Chicago (a track I like to listen to though)

Can I point out that this thread is past 60 posts & involves a good stand up row and Andy MacGregor hasn't posted on it. Is this a record?

[Donna]

Try giving a baby hot curries, and they'd probably consider not eating as an option.

YEEEWWWW wouldn't want to be the one to change the nappies thats for sure!! :sick:


I find is it's quite nice having songs without breaks, is i'm now aware about breaks but not quite got hitting them, is I don't have to worry about missing them and dancing blithely through..

Well lets face it, it would be boring if every song the DJ was to put on was breaks. I like a variety of music....latin and blues is my favourite....oh and dance music.


What also motivates me to dance at venues is having space, I like ISH, but last week I felt like a sardine, and found it hard to cope when they celebrated the fact they'd the highest attendance ever at 200.
P

I love my space and If there are too many people on the floor, then what is the point in dancing if you can't???? It's particularly annoying when you;re practicing for a competition, and it always seems to blummin happen on the last day to practice before the big day!! :angry:

[Donna]

You're not hard to spot after all.

That meaning??... :confused:

[Donna]

Me - I just go anywhere there's a dance. I like it if there's music I like but I'll tolerate most stuff. "Call on Me" and "Red Light" (Billy Ocean) I just hate though so don't dance to along with Sweet Home Chicago (a track I like to listen to though)

Can I point out that this thread is past 60 posts & involves a good stand up row and Andy MacGregor hasn't posted on it. Is this a record?

I think it must be you know!! :D

[Chef]

But then again you've got to think of the babies and children; Try giving a baby hot curries, and they'd probably consider not eating as an option.
I find is it's quite nice having songs without breaks, is i'm now aware about breaks but not quite got hitting them, is I don't have to worry about missing them and dancing blithely through.
What also motivates me to dance at venues is having space, I like ISH, but last week I felt like a sardine, and found it hard to cope when they celebrated the fact they'd the highest attendance ever at 200.
P

Calm down everyone. There is no need to get the popcorn out. I am not getting worked up about things. I understand the whole concept of "one mans meat is another mans poison". But the question on the thread is "what motivates YOU to dance at venues".

For me it is the music. I have been through the baby food stage of music and now I don't want to go back.

I have been through the chicken nugget and chips stage and I don't want to go back.

So I do understand that that the babies and children don't want hot curries, I didn't way back then, but I do now. That is why I will seek out the "hot curry" venues and be quite happy that the babies and children are quite happily tucked up somewhere else with the chicken nuggets happy meal. For me it is not about quantity, it is about quality. ONE beautiful dance can make a while week for me.

So if you find a "hot curry" venue just don't tell the children or else the management will start getting out the chicken nuggets and all the space to dance in will dissapear as the toddlers crash into the furniture.

Oooh eeer! The world is getting very surreal.

Put the popcorn away. Move along, nothing to see, Move along, Nothing to see.

[mooncalf]

That meaning??... :confused:
Well obviously if you don't know what he looks like then it's not quite so easy but once you know what you're looking for then he is one of the easier ones to spot. He's quite tall.

[Donna]

:
Calm down everyone. There is no need to get the popcorn out. I am not getting worked up about things. I understand the whole concept of "one mans meat is another mans poison". But the question on the thread is "what motivates YOU to dance at venues".

For me it is the music. I have been through the baby food stage of music and now I don't want to go back.

I have been through the chicken nugget and chips stage and I don't want to go back.

So I do understand that that the babies and children don't want hot curries, I didn't way back then, but I do now. That is why I will seek out the "hot curry" venues and be quite happy that the babies and children are quite happily tucked up somewhere else with the chicken nuggets happy meal. For me it is not about quantity, it is about quality. ONE beautiful dance can make a while week for me.

So if you find a "hot curry" venue just don't tell the children or else the management will start getting out the chicken nuggets and all the space to dance in will dissapear as the toddlers crash into the furniture.

Oooh eeer! The world is getting very surreal.

Put the popcorn away. Move along, nothing to see, Move along, Nothing to see.

:eek: :eek: :eek: oh dear....has this man lost his mind??

[David Bailey]

Ooh, fight!


This is why I object to you telling Us(me) that our rejection of "child pewk" music is "elitist patronising nonsense". We suffer this "child pewk" music night after night for many years and it makes us gag just like the thought of having to have baby food for every meal.
Err, I'm not gagging, maybe I just have a higher tolerance for baby food?

I personally am not too keen on all-challenging tracks, I sometimes like to relax and just kick back at a dance. Unless it's a horrible swing-y number of course, one has to have some standards you know...

I know ZW is a weirdo musico freak person, but I dunno if that applies to most people - I'm really not desperately bothered by the music being pop-y, as long as I can dance with the right people.


Make a trip to the Southport weekender. Go to the swing and blues room at about 2am and watch for 30 minutes.
Blimey, that's a long way to go for a 30-minute watching-people session. I'm sure you don't mean it, but that came out as a bit patronising...


Calm down everyone. There is no need to get the popcorn out.

There's never a need to get popcorn out - but sometimes it's nice.


For me it is the music. I have been through the baby food stage of music and now I don't want to go back.
Can you give examples of this type of music?


I have been through the chicken nugget and chips stage and I don't want to go back.
Can you give examples of this type of music?


So I do understand that that the babies and children don't want hot curries,
My 3.5-year-old loves curries, olives, and pickled onions (he had 10 of them after tea last night). Although possibly we're getting a little off-topic :)

[LMC]

Suggested examples:

Baby food: most of Kylie, Call on me, (and Amarillo :devil: )
Chicken nuggets: Sweet Dreams my LA Ex, Make me Sway
Hot curry: All That Jazz, Down at the Strip, anything else which makes me stop smiling and instead makes me scowl in fierce concentration on following (but please don't be put off, I'm still enjoying it, honest!)

I've deliberately stuck to really well-known stuff here, someone please tell me that I'm halfway to "getting it"? - or put me right if I'm way off beam - thanks :flower:

[ducasi]

I don't know if you understand music. You Could be a music teacher for all I know. It is just that I would be very surprised, after reading your weblog, that you understood how to dance TO music. Hmm... A child of 3 knows how to dance to music. It might not look good, but I'm sure he's having just as much fun, if not more than we are with our grown-up dancing.

This is why I object to you telling Us(me) that our rejection of "child pewk" music is "elitist patronising nonsense". We suffer this "child pewk" music night after night for many years and it makes us gag just like the thought of having to have baby food for every meal. Our musical tastes differ. You think what I like to listen to is "child pewk", and you've matured above it. I think the music I like to listen to is an acquired taste, which I happen to prefer to the taste you've acquired.

Before you rush to reply.

Make a trip to the Southport weekender. Go to the swing and blues room at about 2am and watch for 30 minutes.

Then tell me that you understand how to dance TO music. I've watched some of the best in the business dance to the music played by some of the DJs who do Southport. They are great dancers, with way more ability at Ceroc dancing than I have, or probably ever will have.

That sort of music isn't what I'd like to master dancing to however, but at least with Ceroc I can have a go, and it's a lot of fun.

[Donna]

Suggested examples:

Baby food: most of Kylie, Call on me, (and Amarillo :devil: )
Chicken nuggets: Sweet Dreams my LA Ex, Make me Sway
Hot curry: All That Jazz, Down at the Strip, anything else which makes me stop smiling and instead makes me scowl in fierce concentration on following (but please don't be put off, I'm still enjoying it, honest!)

I've deliberately stuck to really well-known stuff here, someone please tell me that I'm halfway to "getting it"? - or put me right if I'm way off beam - thanks :flower:

Baby Food - Definately Amarillo :angry: :angry: :angry: --my teacher knows I hate that song so he sticks it on then pulls horrible faces at me!! :angry: :angry: :angry: Er, reach for the start by S Club 7. The frog song and hey baby by DJ Otzi. :angry: :mad: :devil: :angry: :mad: :devil: :angry: :mad: :devil: :angry: :mad: :devil:

Chicken Nuggetts - want to dance the night away - mavericks.

Hot curry - Juke box, bongo song by Saffry Duo, Forever Autumn.

[Zebra Woman]

Baby Food - Definately Amarillo :angry: :angry: :angry: --my teacher knows I hate that song so he sticks it on then pulls horrible faces at me!! :angry: :angry: :angry: Er, reach for the start by S Club 7. The frog song and hey baby by DJ Otzi. :angry: :mad: :devil: :angry: :mad: :devil: :angry: :mad: :devil: :angry: :mad: :devil:


Chicken Nuggetts - want to dance the night away - mavericks.

Hot curry - Juke box, bongo song by Saffry Duo, Forever Autumn.


Yup with you there Donna...I would go so far as to say -

Reach For The Stars is .....a battered sausage :sick: :sick: :sick:

I'm sure ChrisA will have something to say about Amarillo :rolleyes:

[Donna]

Yup with you there Donna...I would go so far as to say -

Reach For The Stars is .....a battered sausage :sick: :sick: :sick:

MMMM seriously cheesy. :sick:

[ducasi]

Hot curry - Juke box, bongo song by Saffry Duo, Forever Autumn. Your hot curry matches up fairly well with my tastes. Don't know "Juke box", and is "Forever Autumn" a particular mix? (It's a great song, but it seems a bit slow to dance to?)

Would love to be able to dance better to the Bongo Song, as it's a song I really like. :grin:

[Minnie M]

(it's Marc with a c)

Yes I would add Robin and Tezi, Bob Gadget (on a good day), Latin Ian, Sheena, DD, Jon Baker, John Ford, and Joe Smooth to that list....more too if I had a little think.

'Questionable' for the masses? Now that is exactly what I'm looking for! :devil:
Not forgetting Mr.Sheepman - and of course Dance Demon :worthy:

[LMC]

As it 'appens I *love* Reach for the Stars AND Amarillo :na: - sometimes a Pot Noodle will just hit the spot perfectly (MSG :drool: ). But you'd definitely be ill if you ate them every night.

Variety is the spice of life - hot curry most of the time (metaphorically speaking of course - don't go there NK :eek: ) would be wonderful - but bet you do get "s** it, let's go down the chippy" moments!

(with a nod to ducasi who already commented that fast food does have its place...)

[ChrisA]

maybe I just have a higher tolerance for baby food?

Out of curiosity, does anyone other than a baby, like baby food at all? :devil:

But you asked for examples...


Can you give examples of this type of music?

In 1998, I compiled a CD with some of my favourite Ceroc (sic) tracks on it. I had a poke about just now, and discovered I still have it. (All together now, "bless..." :D )

It's mostly chicken and chips... such as:

"Feel it" (dunno the artist, but I remember it from the line "What's she gonna look like with a chimney on her?" in it)

"Free" (Ultra Nate)

"Freed from Desire" (Gala)

"Horny" (? Mousse T)

"Ecuador" (Sash)

All very thumpy, and mostly the same all the way through.

Don't get me wrong, it's nice sometimes to go out for a chicken and chips with someone, but usually the quality of emotional connection you can establish, or build, with someone is much higher with something a bit more interesting in a romantic restaurant.

Similarly in dancing - in my experience the emotional connection with a partner on the dance floor is of a much higher quality if the music does a little more than go thump, thump, thump all the way through.

The occasional thumpy track in a night is great - it's like a dip in the cold pool as a change from relaxing in the sauna. But I don't like staying in the cold pool long enough to shrivel up anything important :devil:

[Chef]

Hmm... A child of 3 knows how to dance to music. It might not look good, but I'm sure he's having just as much fun, if not more than we are with our grown-up dancing.
Our musical tastes differ. You think what I like to listen to is "child pewk", and you've matured above it. I think the music I like to listen to is an acquired taste, which I happen to prefer to the taste you've acquired.
I've watched some of the best in the business dance to the music played by some of the DJs who do Southport. They are great dancers, with way more ability at Ceroc dancing than I have, or probably ever will have.

That sort of music isn't what I'd like to master dancing to however, but at least with Ceroc I can have a go, and it's a lot of fun.

Well it clear that our musical tastes differ and I have no problem with that. Music that may send you into raptures may have me sinking my head in my hands in despair.

Sure a child of three can dance to music. It may be out of time, uncoordinated, and they fall over a lot but the parents will look on, say "aaww", quietly say to themselves "if I have to listen to Baa Baa Black Sheep one more time I will scream", and think "at least they are trying and they are having fun". It is unlikely the parent will want relax back with Baa Baa Black Sheep later on in the evening. This not intending any slur on your personal music taste. This is just saying how this simplistic music that Ceroc plays for beginners feels to ME (and I only speak for me here). It is a deliberate Ceroc (and others) plan for the evening. the music between the two classes is relatively slow, simple and suitable for beginners. After the intermediate class the music is a little bit faster but still simple for a while before the more interesting stuff comes on later in the evening. It works for their model but I feel my dancing and my musical taste has moved on.

These great dancers that you have seen (just a guess here but you might be talking about Trampy, or Bill - these are the ones I know that are in your neck of the woods). They dance the way that they do to the music they like because they can. Perhaps (only perhaps) when you have the skills to dance like them then you may like the music that they like dancing to.

I read your very first weblog on here. Your feelings of confusion at things like the first move were just how I felt when I did it. Then it moved into wow! Do you still feel wow! this is so cool! when you do a first move? Or have you moved on?

For me there is a whole world of difference between dancing WITH music and dancing TO music.

I wanted you to see that difference, which I why I asked you to look into the Swing and Blues room at Southport (because it is closer to Glasgow than Camber is - DavidJames). When I first saw that sort of thing I noticed the difference and I knew that was what I wanted.

I am not saying that is what you should want too, just that if you experience it then you have information upon which to make a choice.

[Zebra Woman]

As it 'appens I *love* Reach for the Stars AND Amarillo :na: - sometimes a Pot Noodle will just hit the spot perfectly (MSG :drool: ). But you'd definitely be ill if you ate them every night.

Variety is the spice of life - hot curry most of the time (metaphorically speaking of course - don't go there NK :eek: ) would be wonderful - but bet you do get "s** it, let's go down the chippy" moments!

(with a nod to ducasi who already commented that fast food does have its place...)

Well my body is a temple, I don't do pot noodle or Mc Anything...I had a battered sausage for the first and last time about 3 months ago. :sick:

I went to Goa for a week a few years ago and had curry for breakfast lunch and tea for 5 days. On the 6th morning I had weetabix.

So I guess that just shows I'm wierd/extreme. But I know I'm not alone.

I do like a kebab though :drool: :devil:

Come on Closer is like a musical equivalent of a Kebab - Spicy and naughty

[LMC]

What ChrisA said :worthy:

Re: what Chef said - my eyes were opened by the blues room at Bisley - I spent a couple of hours in there and didn't dance once - but *loved* watching/chilling/listening :nice: - I wanna be up there schmooozing to some fab choons...

[Chef]

What ChrisA said :worthy:

Re: what Chef said - my eyes were opened by the blues room at Bisley - I spent a couple of hours in there and didn't dance once - but *loved* watching/chilling/listening :nice: - I wanna be up there schmooozing to some fab choons...

You have seen the light and will be redeemed. I know there is a Blues dance club in welwym garden city called "Bojangles". Happy Hunting.

[ducasi]

Well it clear that our musical tastes differ and I have no problem with that. Music that may send you into raptures may have me sinking my head in my hands in despair. Indeed, and visa-versa, though I think we probably don't actually know what each other's tastes in music are. I have tried to refrain from commenting on yours, but perhaps you have been misled by my tongue-in-cheek championing of "Call On Me". I really do think it's a cool dance tune, but I'd agree it's at the lower end of the scale in musical sophistication.

Let's just say I like Chinese, while you like Indian? :flower:

I really, really like dancing to the vast majority of the stuff that CJ, DD, Tiggerbabe, Franck and Steve play. If I moan a little, it's because I don't actually like listening to a lot of their music so much. I think there must be plenty of other interesting, challenging tunes that I'd love to have a go at dancing to that they don't play, but hey, I'm not a DJ, I could be wrong, and I know that my tastes aren't matched by the majority.

I actually think that there isn't so much of the baby-food music you are complaining about played in Glasgow and around Scotland.

These great dancers that you have seen (just a guess here but you might be talking about Trampy, or Bill - these are the ones I know that are in your neck of the woods). Off the top of my head... Trampy, Franck and James (Jive Brummie) come to mind as three of the male dancers I would really rate, and that I've had a good chance to watch in action. (I only mention male dancers, as they're the ones I'd like to emulate. :nice:)

They dance the way that they do to the music they like because they can. Perhaps (only perhaps) when you have the skills to dance like them then you may like the music that they like dancing to. And as I've been saying for 5 months now, I don't think so, but you never know.

I read your very first weblog on here. Your feelings of confusion at things like the first move were just how I felt when I did it. Then it moved into wow! Do you still feel wow! this is so cool! when you do a first move? Or have you moved on? I enjoy every part of my dancing – except the mistakes!

For me there is a whole world of difference between dancing WITH music and dancing TO music. Steve once told me something like "you'll reach the stage in your dancing when it's just about the music" (not about the moves.) I don't think he specified a preposition, but I'd have thought that dancing with the music would be better than dancing to it? "With" implies greater harmony to me.

I wanted you to see that difference, which I why I asked you to look into the Swing and Blues room at Southport (because it is closer to Glasgow than Camber is - DavidJames). When I first saw that sort of thing I noticed the difference and I knew that was what I wanted.

I am not saying that is what you should want too, just that if you experience it then you have information upon which to make a choice. I'd love to dance as well as these people to that music. I'd like also to dance as well as them to the music that I also like to listen to.

[LMC]

You have seen the light and will be redeemed. I know there is a Blues dance club in welwym garden city called "Bojangles". Happy Hunting.
Oh good, thought I might have lost your good opinion by fighting the corner for Those Songs Which Had Better Not Be Mentioned Again... (I still like 'em though, so there)

Thanks for the tip, will do a search but probably after I've had some practice/workshops @Southport :nice:

[DavidY]

I'm getting better at dancing to blues/latin music (where I get the chance), but it's a bit like a challenging puzzle - you sometimes have to think quite hard to get it right.

Sometimes an "easy" track where you just dance aerobically for 3 minutes to a pop track with a fairly uncomplicated rythmn can still be very rewarding, even though there's not a lot to it musically.

Ducasi, consider going to Southport (or something like it) whatever music you like - it's a good way to learn more and the Blues and Latin rooms aren't compulsory...

[ducasi]

Ducasi, consider going to Southport (or something like it) whatever music you like - it's a good way to learn more and the Blues and Latin rooms aren't compulsory... Hope to go next year. :nice:

[David Bailey]

Baby food: most of Kylie, Call on me, (and Amarillo :devil: )
and
Baby Food - Definately Amarillo : reach for the stars by S Club 7. The frog song and hey baby by DJ Otzi.
None of which are undanceable-to; bit like the debate about Bodyrockers, it's what you make of it. If you hear a cheesy song, dance cheesy to it - but please, let's not get too snobby about this stuff.


Chicken nuggets: Sweet Dreams my LA Ex, Make me Sway and
Chicken Nuggetts - want to dance the night away - mavericks.
I like these, personally, maybe I'm just a pleb at heart.


Hot curry: All That Jazz, Down at the Strip, anything else which makes me stop smiling and instead makes me scowl in fierce concentration on following
As I've said before, I don't like All That Jazz - too many breaks, doesn't allow a flow to develop so much.


someone please tell me that I'm halfway to "getting it"? - or put me right if I'm way off beam - thanks :flower:
No idea - it's all very personal. And I know very little about music anyway...

I'm beginning to go off this whole food analogy now...

[ChrisA]

but please, let's not get too snobby about this stuff.
Absolutely.

But learn to distinguish between what is simply a preference between two things where all other things are equal, and preferring one thing simply because you can't yet appreciate the other thing.


As I've said before, I don't like All That Jazz -
You're perfectly entitled to not like it...

...but when you say this:


too many breaks, doesn't allow a flow to develop so much.
... you're talking nonsense.

You mean that you are not yet capable of developing a flow when dancing to that track.

Like it or not, not being able to find this "flow" is not a deficiency in the track.

I can't really do it justice... but at least I can hear what I should be doing, and in time I'll be able to do it.

[foxylady]

Similarly in dancing - in my experience the emotional connection with a partner on the dance floor is of a much higher quality if the music does a little more than go thump, thump, thump all the way through.

The occasional thumpy track in a night is great - it's like a dip in the cold pool as a change from relaxing in the sauna. But I don't like staying in the cold pool long enough to shrivel up anything important :devil:

Absolutely !!!!

But then again it has to be the right partner. There are some who I LOVE dancing/eating with but only to chicken and chips music because they don't know what to do to with an eclectic mix of tastes from the 'sugar club' or 'E & O' (to continue the analogy)....

I also sometimes find it soul destroying when one of said restaurants opens it doors (ie a fab interpretive track comes on), and someone who wants fast food asks me to dance... I'll not say no you see.... (it happened twice tonight !)

arrrhggghh I'm getting carried away and very hungry..... I'm open to invitations to any of the above mentioned restaurants !!

[Lynn]

I've read the development of this thread with interest. OK - some like one type of music and some like another. That's fine. But the choice and range of music at a venue will both influence your decision to go to that venue, and inspire/encourage you to get up and dance while you are there.

Looking at it from the angle of those who prefer the 'pop' style - maybe if you went along to an MJ evening where there was no 'pop/chart', no familiar tracks - just lots of more 'challenging' music. Would you get up and dance and enjoy dancing as much as you would to what you currently enjoy dancing to? Perhaps not. Maybe you wouldn't get up for as many dances, maybe you wouldn't enjoy yourself as much, maybe you would even think again about visiting that venue.

Or look at it this way - if the variety and choice of music available when dancing doesn't matter as people are going to get up and dance anyway - why have DJs? Why not just play the same track on repeat all evening?

Interesting that the blues room at Southport was mentioned. I remember when I first went in there, just over a year ago, I didn't even want to stand too close to the dancefloor in case someone asked me up as I hadn't a clue what to do with the music. But I wanted to be in the room as I really liked the music. And I wanted to learn how to dance to it. Therefore the music completely motivated my desire to learn to dance in that style.

My music tastes are changing - I still like the odd hamburger and fries at times, but I couldn't have them too often!

[ducasi]

I've read the development of this thread with interest. OK - some like one type of music and some like another. That's fine. But the choice and range of music at a venue will both influence your decision to go to that venue, and inspire/encourage you to get up and dance while you are there. The basic point I was trying to make (before we got side-tracked into talking about food,) was that the poll isn't about choice of venue – it was simply about choosing to go dancing.

I have a very limited choice of venues, so therefore I'll go wherever there's dancing – not because of the choice of music, but just because there's any music, plus (hopefully!) lots of people who'd like to dance with me! :flower:

[MartinHarper]

I saw the folks in the Southport Blues room, and was impressed - even intimidated. Clearly these were people who were very much with the (slow swing, blues, etc) music, and this was reflected in their dancing.
I had the same feeling on my first Lindy weekender, watching that crowd dance. Again, an amazing feeling of an entire room all in sync with the ("fast Lindy", and faster) music - looked fantastic - scared the heck out of me.
I've also had the same feeling watching a few music videos, seeing folks doing hip hop moves to yet another style of music. No doubt if I went to a hip-hop weekender I would find another room of people devoted to their choice of dance and their choice of music, and again I'd be scared into my seat.

What I get from all this is that good dancers are not defined by where they dance, or what genre of music they dance to. Good dancers are defined by their dancing ability.

[David Bailey]

... you're talking nonsense.
Quite possibly, that's nothing new. However...


You mean that you are not yet capable of developing a flow when dancing to that track.
No, I meant that the track seems to have a break every few seconds, and the breaks are so strong it feels wrong to me to dance through them. So some moves, some free flowing sequences, and some dance control, is removed by the (to me) strong requirement to acknowledge these breaks.

I dunno, maybe I'm just a pizza-and-chips dancer at heart...


Like it or not, not being able to find this "flow" is not a deficiency in the track.
:confused: Surely some tracks have more "flow" than others - isn't this kind of the whole basis for this heated debate? So surely some tracks are "better" than others? Or am I just being very confused again?

[ChrisA]

What I get from all this is that good dancers are not defined by where they dance, or what genre of music they dance to. Good dancers are defined by their dancing ability.
Nobody's disputing this.

But it's not really the point that's being made. This thread is about the spectrum of music that is danced to within modern jive.

And everyone I know that has been dancing (and improving) for a while has the same story to tell.. they used to dance to the thumpy stuff all the time, and not even notice that it was thumpy. But as they improved, they learned to recognise the subtleties in the music, and later still learned to express them in their dancing.

That CD I mentioned that I compiled seven years ago (seven... :tears: ), I even took a couple of lovely slow tracks and speeded them up by about 15% because I thought they were too slow to dance to - and I don't even have the originals any more. :tears: :tears:

They weren't too slow of course - it was just that I wasn't yet able to dance to slower music - now I think they're much better slow.

There's nothing wrong with someone liking thumpy tracks if that's the stage theyr're at - and AISB I like the occasional one too. But don't close your mind to the possibility that as you get better, you'll start to appreciate better music.

[ChrisA]

So some moves, some free flowing sequences, and some dance control, is removed by the (to me) strong requirement to acknowledge these breaks.

Well, Ok, if you define "flow" as continuous movement without change of speed, then fair enough.

But tides flow, in and out, they vary depending on the phase of the moon. Rivers flow, sometimes fast, sometimes slow, depending on the amount of rain.

Blood flows, sometimes fast, sometimes slow, depending on whether one's relaxed or moving energetically.

"All that jazz", and another one with a similar feel, "Big spender", also have flow, IMO. It's just a much more interesting sort of flow than something constant.

Actually, there are lots of tracks without breaks that are very interpretable - they have loud and quiet, accents in the music, and phrasing that you can opt to express in the dance. So there don't have to be breaks all the time for a track to be interesting, even demanding.

[David Bailey]

Well, Ok, if you define "flow" as continuous movement without change of speed, then fair enough.
What I mean is the ability to develop a sequence and connection with my partner, without having to continuously rush to get set up for the next break - possibly "flow" is the wrong term. And possibly I'm not good enough to do both at the same time :tears:


Actually, there are lots of tracks without breaks that are very interpretable - they have loud and quiet, accents in the music, and phrasing that you can opt to express in the dance.
Like Bodyrockers, you mean? :whistle:

[Donna]

Your hot curry matches up fairly well with my tastes. Don't know "Juke box", and is "Forever Autumn" a particular mix? (It's a great song, but it seems a bit slow to dance to?)

Would love to be able to dance better to the Bongo Song, as it's a song I really like. :grin:

I think forever autumn is by Antoinne. It's always been a favourite of mine. Oh yeah, and the bongo song is definately a huuge favourite of mine too. We do enjoy the same hot curry don't we?? :grin:

I have to agree with NTL as well. Everyone has different tastes at the end of the day I'm sure the DJ has to put up with a lot of moaning about the music as well. They work hard playing every style they can to suit everybody and to make sure that everybody has enjoyed their night.

Personally I have to say my least favourite is swing music or old fashioned jive music. When I look around, I happen to see older lot take to the floor, but then I suppose they hate the dance music because that is what is played mostly up here and they spend most of the night sitting down.

I'll never forget one night the music was fantastic, but this woman did nothing but moan about it and hated everything that was being played. Ahhhh think she was just a miserable old bat anyway :angry: and I don't know why she bothers going if she's just willing to sit there with a face like a smacked ass. :mad:

It's true to say thought that everyone's favourite type of music is latin....that really fills the floor....but maybe that has something to do with the fact that it is easier to dance to and you can have more fun with it...intrepreting etc. Also blues seems to be popular as well. We get a lot of latin and blues played up here.

[ChrisA]

And possibly I'm not good enough to do both at the same time :tears:

Yet :flower:

I'm not as good as I'd like to be at any aspect of dance. But I don't say I'm not good enough... I say I'm not good enough yet. :)


Like Bodyrockers, you mean? :whistle:
Whassat?

[David Bailey]

Yet :flower:
I suspect "ever" in my case; I'm improving, but ever-more-slooooowwwwllllyyyy.... And my main focus this year is on getting my salsa mojo back anyway, I haven't been to a MJ venue for a month now :eek:


Whassat?
Bodyrockers, "I like the way you move", Lory likes it :innocent:

[Donna]

None of which are undanceable-to; bit like the debate about Bodyrockers, it's what you make of it. If you hear a cheesy song, dance cheesy to it - but please, let's not get too snobby about this stuff.

Snobby??? :eek: I can't help getting snobby about music like that!!!! :eek: it's outragious!!!

[Donna]

I suspect "ever" in my case; I'm improving, but ever-more-slooooowwwwllllyyyy.... And my main focus this year is on getting my salsa mojo back anyway, I haven't been to a MJ venue for a month now :eek:


Bodyrockers, "I like the way you move", Lory likes it :innocent:

Love that one too...but how do you dance to the intro???? It's one of those when people look stuck and don't know what to do with themselves apart from float around the dance floor awkwardly.

[ChrisA]

Bodyrockers, "I like the way you move", Lory likes it :innocent:
Ah yes, I do know it. So do I.

[LMC]

If you hear a cheesy song, dance cheesy to it - but please, let's not get too snobby about this stuff.
:yeah:

Sometimes it's just dam' good fun to bounce around the floor for three minutes grinning like a maniac without having to think about anything :D - Wake me up before you go go anyone?

Please note, I said 3 minutes, not "all night"... I'm beginning to get some standards


Snobby??? :eek: I can't help getting snobby about music like that!!!! :eek: it's outragious!!!
Good, all the more space for the rest of us to behave like big kids :devil:

[MartinHarper]

Don't close your mind to the possibility that as you get better, you'll start to appreciate better music.

Good advice.
I think that's the correct order: I should attempt to become a better dancer, and see whether that influences my music preferences. I should avoid aping the musical preferences of my betters in the hope that it will somehow make me a better dancer. Similarly, I should base my opinions on other dancers on whether they are good at dancing, rather than whether they like dancing to the sort of music that good dancers dance to.

I'm in the mood for stating the obvious this morning, it seems.

[clevedonboy]

Good advice.

I'm in the mood for .......

As I read those few words a feeling of dread came upon me as I expected the next few words to be "Dancing by The Nolans" :tears:

[Zebra Woman]

The basic point I was trying to make (before we got side-tracked into talking about food,) was that the poll isn't about choice of venue – it was simply about choosing to go dancing.

I have a very limited choice of venues, so therefore I'll go wherever there's dancing – not because of the choice of music, but just because there's any music, plus (hopefully!) lots of people who'd like to dance with me! :flower:

Aha I see we are living in slightly different dance worlds Ducasi :D . You have limited venue choices and seem to have some very sophisticated DJ's playing at them (lucky you).

For me within a 50 mile radius there are between 50 and 80 different Ceroc/Jive nights that I could attend in one week! :eek: I'm sure for the Londoners there are even more.

Sounds like heaven? It isn't. In the last 2 years a lot of good dancers have stopped dancing regularly at my local venues for whatever reason (quite a few left because they got tired of the music, and got bored with their dancing). The venues are now packed with beginners and there is a plentiful supply of fast food music for them, not much for me. I do hear of the odd great night, but they are few and far between from what I hear.

The poll question 'What makes me dance at a venue?' - IMO Can't be answered by simply saying 'dancing'. I have to chose a venue from the 5 or more that are within my reach on a given night. So my answer has to be about how I make that choice. Which is based on the DJ/music, because that will draw in the dancers with the same taste as me.

I would be over the moon to have the DJ's you have up there playing near me. Although it would be traumatic if I had to try and choose between them as they are all so good.

I recognise all of ChrisA's Ceroc favourites, I liked them all too, and absolutley loved fast dances, It Ain't The Meat It's The Motion was a favourite then too :sick: :rofl: Those were the days, I would dance to everything happily.

In those days (1997/98) I could also have answered the poll question simply too . I would have said 'dancing' . I only knew 3 venues then and the standard was astronomically high in all of them IMO.

[David Bailey]

Sometimes it's just dam' good fun to bounce around the floor for three minutes grinning like a maniac without having to think about anything :D
Yep, I believe that encapsulates the Lory Approach perfectly... at least to that one, of course.

I dare you to request it on Friday. No, I double dare you!


- Wake me up before you go go anyone?
Hey, don't diss that - it's a damned good MJ song, shame no-one plays it anymore. Used to be quite popular at MJ venues when I started, now there's a scary thought...


...but how do you dance to the intro???? It's one of those when people look stuck and don't know what to do with themselves apart from float around the dance floor awkwardly.
Well, you could always act out the lyrics :innocent:

Seriously, I believe this is a classic example of a "challenging" track - which is why I suggested it, albeit slightly tongue-in-cheek. It has very little variation in timing, and it very repetitive - but if you get it right it's pretty awesome.

[LMC]

I dare you to request it on Friday. No, I double dare you!

What, Bodyrocker? OK, but only if I get to dance it with you... :devil:

Wake me up before you go go was played at the Jive Bar last night which is why it occurred to me - great fun! If that was the one you meant, happy to request that one on Friday instead, same terms and conditions apply :wink:

[David Bailey]

For me within a 50 mile radius there are between 50 and 80 different Ceroc/Jive nights that I could attend in one week! :eek: I'm sure for the Londoners there are even more.
Over a hundred, I'd imagine - there's at least a dozen Ceroc franchises in that area alone. Blimey, that's a scary thought...

I just have lower standards than you, ZW; but then so does everyone I suspect :flower:

[David Bailey]

What, Bodyrocker? OK, but only if I get to dance it with you... :devil:

Wake me up before you go go was played at the Jive Bar last night which is why it occurred to me - great fun! If that was the one you meant, happy to request that one on Friday instead, same terms and conditions apply :wink:
Err, great. ... insert sudden attack of some-unspecfied illness here... :eek:

Can I give you a definite and complete maybe on that one? :flower:

[Zebra Woman]

I suspect "ever" in my case; I'm improving, but ever-more-slooooowwwwllllyyyy.... And my main focus this year is on getting my salsa mojo back anyway, I haven't been to a MJ venue for a month now :eek:


Hey David if you see my salsa mojo lying around anywhere pick it up for me.

I think I might have left it at the Havana in St Albans...




Bodyrockers, "I like the way you move", Lory likes it :innocent:
I like that track :clap:

Oh steady on, I think we're all agreeing on something :eek:

[Clive Long]

:yeah:

Sometimes it's just dam' good fun to bounce around the floor for three minutes grinning like a maniac without having to think about anything :D - Wake me up before you go go anyone?

Yep. I had an attack of disco last night at Ashtons. Anything late 70's or 80's, CarWash (original version) - music that reminds you of Starsky and Hutch, Huggy Bear and the red car with the white flash. Double cheese please, Louise.

I danced a bit of disco with a fantastic dancer Jane/Kate (why can I never remember her name? - she's just one of the best :drool: ) - luckily she seemed to be in a silly mood too, otherwise I would have been in for a good slap.

Clive

[LMC]

Err, great. ... insert sudden attack of some-unspecfied illness here... :eek:

Can I give you a definite and complete maybe on that one? :flower:
Oh, there's no time limit... :devil: is there? :innocent:

Talk about an easy dare, I like Bodyrocker too :D


Oh steady on, I think we're all agreeing on something :eek:
Ssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh, and maybe no-one will notice

[David Bailey]

Hey David if you see my salsa mojo lying around anywhere pick it up for me.
Got a big boost last night, I think I've found my regular salsa club after many moons of searching... I reckon I'm about 3/4 powered-up now (was on half-speed a couple of months ago), but it's getting back that last 1/4 that's going to be tricky...


I think I might have left it at the Havana in St Albans...
:confused: Fair enough, if you went to the class you'd probably have suffered major MojoLoss (and WillToLiveLoss for that matter), but I quite liked the club part of it, last time I went.


Oh steady on, I think we're all agreeing on something :eek:
Don't worry, I rectified that oversight above :phew:

[ducasi]

Bodyrockers, "I like the way you move" Hey, we all love that song! I don't think I've ever been given the opportunity to dance to it though. I'd like to try though...

[ducasi]

I think forever autumn is by Antoinne. It's always been a favourite of mine. Oh yeah, and the bongo song is definately a huuge favourite of mine too. We do enjoy the same hot curry don't we?? :grin: Mostly...

Personally I have to say my least favourite is swing music or old fashioned jive music. Nod...

It's true to say thought that everyone's favourite type of music is latin....that really fills the floor....but maybe that has something to do with the fact that it is easier to dance to and you can have more fun with it...intrepreting etc. Also blues seems to be popular as well. We get a lot of latin and blues played up here. Have to disagree here. I love listening to blues music, but there's plenty other stuff I'd prefer dancing to. Latin is also a bit of "take it or leave it" kind of thing... :nice:

[ducasi]

Aha I see we are living in slightly different dance worlds Ducasi :D . You have limited venue choices and seem to have some very sophisticated DJ's playing at them (lucky you).

For me within a 50 mile radius there are between 50 and 80 different Ceroc/Jive nights that I could attend in one week! :eek: I'm sure for the Londoners there are even more. I guess I've got about 6 or 7 Ceroc venues, but I suppose if I were to include "LeRoc" venues, it's about 10 in a week in the same radius.

I don't know anything about the local LeRoc scene, and there doesn't seem to be anyone around here who does and is prepared to discuss it openly.

I'm happy enough for the moment sticking with the Ceroc venues I know, and with the teachers and DJs I know.

I would be over the moon to have the DJ's you have up there playing near me. Although it would be traumatic if I had to try and choose between them as they are all so good. Even though they're still prepared to play the likes of S Club 7 and Wham early on in the night? :wink:

[ducasi]

... But don't close your mind to the possibility that as you get better, you'll start to appreciate better music. Who gets to decide what is "better" music???

[Zebra Woman]

I guess I've got about 6 or 7 Ceroc venues, but I suppose if I were to include "LeRoc" venues, it's about 10 in a week in the same radius.

I don't know anything about the local LeRoc scene, and there doesn't seem to be anyone around here who does and is prepared to discuss it openly.

The first rule about dance club....


Yes it took me two years to realise there was dancing outside Ceroc Central! And it was only after a weekender at Camber that I actually cared. That's when my music tastes changed.



I'm happy enough for the moment sticking with the Ceroc venues I know, and with the teachers and DJs I know.
Even though they're still prepared to play the likes of S Club 7 and Wham early on in the night? :wink:

Yep I would just leave the room to avoid dancing to them...As Lory says we need to freshen up/chat sometimes don't we?

I would never ever expect a night to be even 80% to my taste, so there is plenty of room for stuff like that. The people who love S Club will probably avoid the Latiny blues tracks I like in the same way.

It's only when the night has been 80% not to my taste that I get restless.
(I like Steps - Summer of Love, and Sclub8 - Sundown btw so I'm not anti teen pop :blush: ) .

Live and let live that's all I want, some DJ's really know how to blend a night that keeps everyone happy.

[Donna]

Yes it took me two years to realise there was dancing outside Ceroc Central! And it was only after a weekender at Camber that I actually cared. That's when my music tastes changed.

You do find that when you travel further out to other venues they play different styles of music and yes, like your's my taste in music has changed. Before I was only ever into the pop and dance music, now I appreciate blues and latin a lot more. Gus however, has his own taste in music...and i'll tell you know....he's got taste.!!! :worthy: His music collection is amazing. :nice:

[Zebra Woman]

Gus however, has his own taste in music...and i'll tell you know....he's got taste.!!! :worthy: His music collection is amazing. :nice:

Mmm....... I would be very interested to have a guided tour of that. :yum:

In fact there are quite a few people who's CD racks (or PCs :wink: ) I'd like to have a rummage through.

[Donna]

Mmm....... I would be very interested to have a guided tour of that. :yum:

In fact there are quite a few people who's CD racks (or PCs :wink: ) I'd like to have a rummage through.

You should certainly have a rummage through his!!! :nice:

[ChrisA]

Who gets to decide what is "better" music???
Nobody is stopping you, or anyone else, from making your own decision, every day, about what you think is better music.

Just recognise that a kid thinks a bike with stabilisers is pretty cool, when all they have is a little tricycle.

:D

[LMC]

Nobody is stopping you, or anyone else, from making your own decision, every day, about what you think is better music.

Just recognise that a kid thinks a bike with stabilisers is pretty cool, when all they have is a little tricycle.

:D
In the context of music, maybe "better" is a bit of an emotion-tugging term even if I agree with it to a certain extent.

Unfortunately, there does seem to be an element on occasion in this thread of beginners charging the advanced dancers with being snobs (maybe I'm guilty as charged, although I have tried to remain objective). And as a beginner, I am occasionally getting a little taster of being ever so slightly patronised by the advanced dancers - a sort of pat on the head and "there there, you'll learn" - fairly justified IMO, as it happens, as I can see how much more challenging and fun it can be to dance to the more complex tracks (why do you think I'm so darned impatient to improve my dancing LAST WEEK?). Justified or not, the emotional response to that being patted on the head feeling is slightly "yah boo sucks"...

I *think* what some people are talking about is levels of complexity of the music and variety of that complexity within a track - beat, back beat, rhythm of the lyrics, etc etc etc - and that's what I want to learn about, so I can hear and dance to it, as well as listening and enjoying.

[Donna]

QUOTE=NewKid] I am occasionally getting a little taster of being ever so slightly patronised by the advanced dancers - a sort of pat on the head and "there there, you'll learn" - [/QUOTE]

I experienced this snobbiness when I was a beginner too. It can put them off.

[Chef]

And as a beginner, I am occasionally getting a little taster of being ever so slightly patronised by the advanced dancers - a sort of pat on the head and "there there, you'll learn" - fairly justified IMO, as it happens, as I can see how much more challenging and fun it can be to dance to the more complex tracks (why do you think I'm so darned impatient to improve my dancing LAST WEEK?). Justified or not, the emotional response to that being patted on the head feeling is slightly "yah boo sucks"...

I *think* what some people are talking about is levels of complexity of the music and variety of that complexity within a track - beat, back beat, rhythm of the lyrics, etc etc etc - and that's what I want to learn about, so I can hear and dance to it, as well as listening and enjoying.

I can understand how you might feel patronised. I do hope that there are very few that are out to patronise people though. It is a difficult thing to put to someone that they may not appreciate the sublety and complexity in a peice of music. I did not feel patronised when, in an Amir or Nigel class, they just got us to sit down, listen to music and explain what they, as dancers were listening for, and the options as dancers that they would be considering at that point.

It is very hard to phrase it to someone (watch me make a complete muck up of it) that you feel someone is now ready to face a new challenge, and that listening to a peice of music as a dancer maybe one of those challenges, without sounding patronising. We want to tell you what tools are available without telling you which ones to use. An experienced dancer may illustrate points using music that they like, without saying that you must like it also. You choose the music you like. I can only tell you what I listen for in music (as a dancer). What I like to listen to is sometimes very different to what I like to dance to.

One might feel that such advice would be more directed to leads rather than follows because in the beginner/intermediate phases they are in almost total control of the dance (and the follower just follows). As you move into a more advanced dance the follower is increasingly given "windows of opportunity" and when it first happens it usually scares the life out of them because they have never been in the situation where they get to call the shots. The follower at this stage needs to be able to read the music for themselves so that they can make the most of these "windows of opportunity".

I would rarely want to patronise (unless they really p1ss me off) someone. The only way I can explain it is that I want to show you what books there are in a library, but it is up to you which ones you choose to read.

The "there there, you'll learn" seems to come from the eagerness that we see in you. You were fascinated by the Blues room at Bisley and the like, you've seen it and you want it all - right now!. We have seen that eagerness before - it's in us. We understand and live with it - but we know now that it just doesn't come anywhere near as quickly as one would like.

Very happy dancing and best wishes

[LMC]

I am occasionally getting a little taster of being ever so slightly patronised by the advanced dancers - a sort of pat on the head and "there there, you'll learn" -

I experienced this snobbiness when I was a beginner too. It can put them off.
I only meant on this thread. Apologies if I have given an incorrect impression - generally people from here couldn't be more helpful and encouraging to me. I count ZW and ChrisA amongst my heroes (having met them both) and am well aware that it's their passion for music that may have occasionally led them to be a little less than tactful on this thread about our "candy floss music" preferences. That passion I respect and admire :worthy:, one day (a few incarnations on) I hope to have the knowledge to emulate it.

As far as being "put off" is concerned, they will have to try harder :D (bloody minded? moi?)

[ChrisA]

that may have occasionally led them to be a little less than tactful on this thread about our "candy floss music" preferences.
I mean no disrespect. I was exactly the same with my music preferences, and even now, as I've said loads of times, I still like a little of the candy floss once in a while.

And when I first got a bike with stabilisers I was over the moon. There's nothing wrong with being pleased with where you are, even as you move forward to the next phase.

I suppose the difference is that now I look forward with pleasure - not embarrassment - to when I look back with embarrassment (even though I'll know that embarrassment is unnecessary) - because moving on is such a great thing in itself. And if someone says to me, hey, you think this is good, just wait till you know more, my reaction will be "woohoo". :D

[David Bailey]

I suppose the difference is that now I look forward with pleasure - not embarrassment - to when I look back with embarrassment (even though I'll know that embarrassment is unnecessary)
Can I suggest this sentence be nuked from orbit? It's the only way to be sure.

Or, huh?

[Donna]

I did not feel patronised when, in an Amir or Nigel class, they just got us to sit down, listen to music and explain what they, as dancers were listening for, and the options as dancers that they would be considering at that point.

Now that is a brilliant idea and I think all classes should do this to help them to listen to the listen...no1 priority!

I'm having ballroom lessons with one one of the top ballroom teachers in the country and when we demonstrated jive for him, even though you feel you might be in time, he said we weren't. Reason being is sometimes people are all over the place, they interpret the music instead of the beat. That's how a beginner should be taught first is to dance to the beat and then when they become more experienced ( that is when they have a clear understanding of how to dance properly to music ) learn to dance to the music sometimes as well. It all sounds rather confusing I know but it's helped me anyway.

[Zebra Woman]

I mean no disrespect. I was exactly the same with my music preferences, and even now, as I've said loads of times, I still like a little of the candy floss once in a while.

Yes so do I, I just don't post my preferred candyfloss on this Forum :innocent:



And when I first got a bike with stabilisers I was over the moon. There's nothing wrong with being pleased with where you are, even as you move forward to the next phase.

I suppose the difference is that now I look forward with pleasure - not embarrassment - to when I look back with embarrassment (even though I'll know that embarrassment is unnecessary) - because moving on is such a great thing in itself. And if someone says to me, hey, you think this is good, just wait till you know more, my reaction will be "woohoo". :D

:yeah:


It is a fantastic life long journey . A month without discovering something new and fab is a sad month indeed.

I apologise if I have come across as patronising/tactless :blush: . Underneath I'm probably just jealous :greeneyed smiley:.

My passion for music has caused me much heartache and turmoil on evenings when I had planned to be having fun. It has been many years since I could go out and simply enjoy dancing to whatever music the DJ chose to play. I look back wistfully on those times, and I know my issues over modern jive dance music will probably be at the root of things when my dancing bubble finally bursts. :tears:

[bigdjiver]

Yep, I believe that encapsulates the Lory Approach perfectly... at least to that one, of course.

I dare you to request it on Friday. No, I double dare you!
Now we are talking my kind of music - Louis Armstrong:
"I double dare you to sit over here..." whistle:
Maybe not what you meant? :D

[Donna]

Now we are talking my kind of music - Louis Armstrong:
"I double dare you to sit over here..." whistle:
Maybe not what you meant? :D

Louis Armstrong??!!! Ahem.... :eek:

[DavidB]

The main reason I go to a venue in the first place is to see my friends.

It is certainly not the music that motivates me. If it were, then I wouldn't go dancing. Nowhere plays enough of the music I like (compared to what I don't like) for it to be the major factor. And any venue that did play enough would not have any of my friends there.
(The music might put me off going to a venue. For example I doubt I would go if I knew the music would be all swing and blues.)

It isn't even the dancing. If it was I would go out at every opportunity, but I'm happy to go weeks without dancing. However I suspect this is down to laziness more than anything else.



It used to be different. I would deliberately seek out challenging music, but now I realise that there are more challenges in every song than I can cope with. The 'challenging' music was in fact the easy music, because the challenge was so obvious. The limiting factor is my ability, and not the music.



(Paraphrased from Mario Robau - one of the top WCS dancer in the US)
"The number of dancers who can justifiably say that one sort of music is better for dancing than another sort can be counted on your fingers. For everyone else it is an admission of their weakness as a dancer."

I'm nowhere near good enough to say what is the best music. All I can do is say what I like, and don't like, and dance accordingly. I will always prefer dancing to a song I like rather than a song that is considered to be more dancable - even if I can't dance to it as well. Or at the other extreme I do not enjoy dancing to music I don't like, no matter how 'good' it is supposed to be.

Having said that, it is worth learning why other people think a song is good. Just don't feel pressured into agreeing with them.

Your preference is only down to you. You don't have to justify it to anyone. You can change it on a whim and no-one can complain. But you can't force it on anyone else.

DavidB

[Clive Long]

I can understand how you might feel patronised. I do hope that there are very few that are out to patronise people though. It is a difficult thing to put to someone that they may not appreciate the sublety and complexity in a peice of music. I did not feel patronised when, in an Amir or Nigel class, they just got us to sit down, listen to music and explain what they, as dancers were listening for, and the options as dancers that they would be considering at that point.
<< snip >>
Chef,

I feel the example you have given is not pertinent to countering the accusation that you and Chris A may have been an insy-winsy bit patronising of Ducasi's response to the music he enjoys dancing to. (that's pretty crap grammar - but I can't rewrite it)

In your example Amir and Nigel explained how they respond to a piece of music. Their response, their explanation. No judgement of other people's preferences or response. So obviously, nothing patronising.

Having said that, I think your argument (proposition? assertion? help me ESG) that as one dances or gets involved in any art one's appreciation of more complex and subtle music grows, is correct. Lots of stuff to think about ... I just didn't like the way you expressed it.



Clive

[ChrisA]

the accusation that you and Chris A may have been an insy-winsy bit patronising of Ducasi's response to the music he enjoys dancing to.
It's a funny thing, how mud sticks.

As it happens, it wasn't Chef or I that first mentioned child-pewk (sic - pun intended).

But I bet that comes as a surprise to many people for whom the first few pages of the thread are now ancient history, and it's grabbing some unoccupied bit of moral high ground and getting one's towel on it that's the important thing.

Chef's first comment about music was this:


This is why I won't dance to things like the birdy song, call on me, or the sound of a metronome. You CAN dance to them. I would just find them uninteresting to dance to.

Note that he was referring to his own preferences.

It didn't start to get inflammatory, in fact, until Ducasi finished off one of his posts with:


I don't disagree that Call on Me is a little basic in structure, but it does it for me. I'd reject any claim that all of (what I'd call) dance music is "child pewk" as elitist, patronising nonsense.
Now actually, although someone (mentioning no names, but looking rather hard at Under Par) referred to "Call on me" as "child-pewk", no one has suggested that all dance (as in club) dance music is this.

As an aside, in actual fact, I'm in a very small minority here, in that I like "Call on me" (and apparently, if you disagree with me on that, Mario Robau (whoever he is) thinks you're admitting your weakness as a dancer :wink: ) and I have a whole shelf full of dance music, including most of the Euphoria CDs, some from Renaissance, Cream, lots of bits and pieces and some not entirely legal Cafe del Mar.

Some (club) dance music is quite interesting... and very challenging (in fact way too difficult for me) to dance to. I have yet to get to the point where I can reliably hear where the phrases end without counting (obviously, where they start is easy, but that's no good unless you knew where the previous one ended), and the way the subtlety can be soooo well-hidden amongst the bangin' bits makes it very hard to dance to in an interesting way.

But the real issue for me is that the very bangin' nature of it makes it harder to establish the emotional connection with a partner I was talking about earlier - and without the emotional connection, it might just as well be club dancing.

And it's for this reason alone that I think the slower, more luscious stuff is better to dance modern jive to - if it's that connection you seek.

If it isn't, but it's more of an aerobic work out you want, then of course, blues, latin, slow swing, will be no good to you at all.

Anyway, the most interesting thing I've read on this thread is from DavdB....


It is certainly not the music that motivates me. If it were, then I wouldn't go dancing. Nowhere plays enough of the music I like ....
It isn't even the dancing. If it was I would go out at every opportunity, but I'm happy to go weeks without dancing.

It used to be different. I would deliberately seek out challenging music, but now I realise that there are more challenges in every song than I can cope with. The 'challenging' music was in fact the easy music, because the challenge was so obvious. The limiting factor is my ability, and not the music.

Does this mean we're all doomed?

We get to the point where nothing is good enough any more?

Maybe, but fortunately it hasn't got to that point yet. I've found that although the number of dances I enjoy is less than in the past, the kick from the really good ones compensates somehow.

Maybe baby food really is the best.... at least you get to smear it all over yourself and others as well as eating it, without people thinking that you're too old for that kind of thing :devil:

[foxylady]

Maybe baby food really is the best.... at least you get to smear it all over yourself and others as well as eating it, without people thinking that you're too old for that kind of thing :devil:

OOh ChrisA, now you are getting me all worked up... just the thought of all that baby food smeared all over you and needing someone to lick it off :devil:


(I hope Jaynes' not reading this.. ...runs... ducks... and hides.....)

[ChrisA]

OOh ChrisA, now you are getting me all worked up... just the thought of all that baby food smeared all over you and needing someone to lick it off :devil:

What flavour? :innocent:

Would chocolate do, as an adult, blues-oriented, break-enhanced alternative?

[ducasi]

It's a funny thing, how mud sticks.

As it happens, it wasn't Chef or I that first mentioned child-pewk (sic - pun intended). Well I don't think I've been throwing mud. At least, not as much as I feel has been chucked in my direction. It's simply that I think both of you have said things that needed questioned... :)

When you say...

It didn't start to get inflammatory, in fact, until Ducasi finished off one of his posts with:

I don't disagree that Call on Me is a little basic in structure, but it does it for me. I'd reject any claim that all of (what I'd call) dance music is "child pewk" as elitist, patronising nonsense.... I think you're ignoring the fact that ...

... someone ... referred to "Call on me" as "child-pewk". Which is quite inflammatory in itself. I was just responding to that single comment, by one individual – though Chef also implied the music he didn't like was "pooh". Not as inflammatory, but I thought it was a bit harsh.

If anyone else felt that the "elitist, patronising nonsense" jibe was directed at them I can only assume they agree with the original "pewk" comment.

How should I feel when my taste in music is likened to "pooh" or puke? (And later to "baa baa black sheep" and a toddler's tricycle compared against a bike with stabilisers?)

To say that any particular sort of music is better than another because it is more "interesting" or "challenging" might be seen by some to be elitist.

To say that any particular sort of music is better than another for whatever reason, and then say that I will come to realise this as I become a better dancer feels to me to be both elitist and a bit patronising.

Based on what I've read here and the other thread & poll, it seems becoming an "advanced" dancer means that I will like less music, and will enjoy dancing less unless I can find the particular music I like.

If this is the case, I'll very happy to be a "beginner" for a very long time. :nice:

[El Salsero Gringo]

To say that any particular sort of music is better than another for whatever reason, and then say that I will come to realise this as I become a better dancer feels to me to be both elitist and a bit patronising.Doesn't mean it isn't true, though.... :whistle:

[foxylady]

What flavour? :innocent:

Would chocolate do, as an adult, blues-oriented, break-enhanced alternative?

Yum ! sounds delish... better get my tongue in training.... :wink:

[ChrisA]

... I think you're ignoring the fact that ...

... someone ... referred to "Call on me" as "child-pewk".
I'm not ignoring it at all.


Which is quite inflammatory in itself.
Only if you choose to take it that way, and go all offended. I wasn't offended, and I like Call on me.

IMO, UP's remark about Call on me should just be taken as an expression of personal preference, and any other reaction to it is just pointless.

You chose to take it as inflammatory, as, regrettably, so many people do on the forum when a debate gets interesting, and then they go off on one, rather than stay and debate politely.

I think "better" is an unfortunate word in an environment such as this where people tend to be incredibly sensitive to any suggestion that they aren't fantastic in every way.

Why don't you just read "I think this is better" as "I prefer this"?



How should I feel when my taste in music is likened to "pooh" or puke?

I don't know. Why would you care? If you have what you feel are good reasons for liking what you like, I'd suggest that a more relevant question is: "Why does it matter to you what people think of your tastes?"

I like Abba, and Country music (as well as a lot of the stuff you've said you like). It's very unfashionable, but please don't confuse me with anyone that gives a damn about that :D



and a toddler's tricycle compared against a bike with stabilisers?)

I wasn't comparing your taste in music with a toddler's tricycle.

I was pointing out the way people's perspective changes as they get older, and comparing this with the way my (and all the other dancers I hang out with) tastes in dance have changed over the years I've been dancing.

You shouldn't find it threatening to have it suggested that your tastes might change as you get more experienced. Or they might not. No one need care about that, either way, except you.

I still think of myself as a toddler in the dance world, anyway...



To say that any particular sort of music is better than another because it is more "interesting" or "challenging" might be seen by some to be elitist.

Piffle. Are you telling me that never in your life have you attempted to justify to someone why you think one thing is better than another?

It's perfectly within anyone's right to say they think something is better - and if they explain why they think that, it gives you the opportunity to consider whether their reasons have merit, and debate those reasons if you wish to.



To say that any particular sort of music is better than another for whatever reason, and then say that I will come to realise this as I become a better dancer feels to me to be both elitist and a bit patronising.

Well instead of reacting like this, why don't you consider that it may be true - and if it's more palatable, let me phrase it like this:

"Maybe as you develop as a dancer your tastes will change, and you will come to prefer to dance to music that is slower, less bangin', and with more light and shade in it."

This may not be the case, of course, but don't you think it's likely that in any sphere where one starts out as a beginner, and progresses to more and more advanced levels, one develops the ability to appreciate more and more subtlety and depth in whatever you're learning?



If this is the case, I'll very happy to be a "beginner" for a very long time. :nice:
Yep, a lot of people take that option. :)

[ducasi]

Doesn't mean it isn't true, though.... :whistle:
Veracity isn't a prerequisite to patronisation. :nice:

(Wow – three big words in a six word sentence, and so early in the morning! :D)

[El Salsero Gringo]

Veracity isn't a prerequisite to patronisation. :nice:

(Wow – three big words in a six word sentence, and so early in the morning! :D)Er, wot?

[ducasi]

Why don't you just read "I think this is better" as "I prefer this"? Why don't people express their beliefs and preferences, rather than making judgements?

[LMC]

I think I was the first person to say the "p" word and b*****r, you see what happens when I try to be tactful - I end up being even more incomprehensible than usual :mad: (@me before anyone takes even more offence). Sorry to open up yet another can of worms.

The points I was trying to make (and failed dismally) is that some of us, as beginners (possibly including me although I was trying not to) were reacting *as if* you guys were behaving in that way when you weren't being patronising, just passionate. "Better" as a definition rather than "I prefer" can be misread. I was trying to make the gentle point to the wonderful knowledgeable people that sometimes their passion was making them a bit tactless - and the gentle point to my fellow beginners that we should (including me) not take offence and listen up...

Unfortunately my point wasn't helped by being immediately quoted out of context - hope I refuted that slightly misplaced encouragement effectively. Because apart from some of the stuff on this thread (which I know was not intended to be patronising) I have always felt more like I'm being educated and encouraged by you guys - and have frequently been humbled by your patience and kindness, because I am an evil impatient person who has a long way to go...

Now can we please get back to discussing the actual music, 'cos I was truly finding that bit interesting?

The more speedily I and people like me can learn to appreciate more complex/challenging music, the more demand there will be for it, which can only be a Good Thing for getting /keeping it played. I enjoy listening to it and can't wait until I'm good enough to also dance to it.

[ducasi]

I think I was the first person to say the "p" word ... Nope, I'm fairly sure it was me. :flower:

"Better" as a definition rather than "I prefer" can be misread. :yeah:

[David Bailey]

It didn't start to get inflammatory, in fact, until Ducasi finished off one of his posts with:
Hey, don't forget my contribution, I help fan the flames with the "snob" comment too, you know.


As an aside, in actual fact, I'm in a very small minority here, in that I like "Call on me"
Minority of two at least - I also like it. And Bodyrockers. And the Yes remix.


Mario Robau (whoever he is)
US swing instructor - bio here (http://www.capitalswingdancers.org/Instructors/MarioRobau/MarioRobau.html)


Anyway, the most interesting thing I've read on this thread is from DavdB....
Oh yes. I'm still waiting to see the first serious post from him that isn't mind-bogglingly informative and, well, oracular. I suspect I'll be waiting a long time...


Maybe baby food really is the best.... at least you get to smear it all over yourself and others as well as eating it, without people thinking that you're too old for that kind of thing :devil:
Nahhh.... Stick with honey and yoghurt, it's much better. Or, so I've heard.

[DavidB]

I'm still waiting to see the first serious post from him that isn't mind-bogglingly informative and, well, oracular. I suspect I'll be waiting a long time...5 minutes

[ChrisA]

Why don't people express their beliefs and preferences, rather than making judgements?
Why shouldn't people make judgements?

If people think something is better, they can say so, and why they think so.

I'm going to duck out of this debate now, though, since it no longer seems to be about the music - I've made several comments now about music we both like, and you've chosen to just ignore them and insist on being offended.

So I think I'll just leave it now. Enjoy dancing to whatever you like :nice:

[Lynn]

5 minutes :rofl:

I think its reasonable for people to be aware that their music tastes will and do change, develop, broaden, as they discover new things.

I was thinking about it this morning on my way to work (as I listened to my new Pink Martini CD...) I used to enjoy the occasional muggle dinner dance, be up on the floor all night - I now go the same events, same DJ, same music... and I would rather chat to my friends. Because even if getting up and dancing solo, I can't find things in the music to do any of the interesting things I like to do when dance. So I don't enjoy the dancing. And I'm not going to say anything about what sort of music this DJ plays - its not that the music is 'bad' - other people enjoy it - it just no longer satisfies me.

I'm not an advanced dancer. I struggle to do interesting things well to the music that I like to dance to. But I will keep trying as that is how I will improve. If I don't get opportunities to dance to it I won't be able to improve. So either in choosing a venue, or in selecting tracks I enjoy to dance to at a venue, I will prefer that sort of music.

One of the best things about MJ for me is the variety of music. That one minute you can be dancing with high energy to a current chart hit, then getting all wiggly to a latin beat, then slinky and smooth to a blues song... :clap:

So I celebrate that variety! :clap: Long may it continue!

[ducasi]

Why shouldn't people make judgements?

If people think something is better, they can say so, and why they think so.

I'm going to duck out of this debate now, though, since it no longer seems to be about the music - I've made several comments now about music we both like, and you've chosen to just ignore them and insist on being offended.

So I think I'll just leave it now. Enjoy dancing to whatever you like :nice: I should have said "rather than making judgements ... about other people and their beliefs and preferences."

I appreciate that we have commonality in our music tastes, but I didn't think there was much to say beyond :yeah: :flower:

And I'm not offended – at least not by anything you've said.

If I'm sensitive to elitism and patronisation, it's because I can be guilty of both in my own area of expertise – computing. I have to keep stopping myself saying things like "should have bought a Mac!" every time a Windows or Linux user has problems. Sometimes I fail. (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=132843#post132843) :sad:

[ChrisA]

And I'm not offended – at least not by anything you've said.
Well I'm glad about that. :hug:



If I'm sensitive to elitism and patronisation, it's because I can be guilty of both in my own area of expertise – computing. I have to keep stopping myself saying things like "should have bought a Mac!"
Ah of course... I'd completely forgotten you're a flippin' Mac user :devil:

No wonder you're so touchy :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:blush: :wink:

[Lee]

My initial motivation to start ceroc was for fitness & to become good at something that was useful and events like wedding receptions.

After 14 months, what motivates me to dance at a venue:

Nice people & varied music, without either one, why would anyone go?

It’s only when one of these becomes bad, I may start looking for another venue.

Lee

[David Bailey]

5 minutes
Hah - you can't get out of it that easily, why do you think I put the "serious" caveat in? :whistle:

[Donna]

Nice people & varied music,

:yeah: :yeah: That's it Lee! :clap: That is what motivates people to dance at certain venues....is friendly people and varied music. That is what makes a pleasant atmosphere, and that is what everybody looks for in a venue also, is a great atmosphere. :nice:

Those who are desperate to learn how to dance properly will also go to venues where they will learn easily and quickly to an intermediate/advanced level by getting asked by experienced dancers more often.

Don't you find when the numbers go down at certain venues it's the beginners that disappear?? I think it could well be down to arrogance- the fact they are not getting enough dances with those who are experienced.

I remember as a beginner that dancing with other beginners may have helped a little,(for memorising the routines) but it was no where near the same as dancing with an experienced dancer (helps you to follow better) which then helped me to improve. Therefore, I started to enjoy it more. There is nothing worse that seeing some poor beginner become terribly frustrated and telling you that they can't do it when they haven't even been given a proper chance.

If when I just started, went to a venue where I didn't get enough offers, then I'd consider going somewhere else where I could get a dance. So it goes to prove that it's not really the music I think that can push people away as normally you'd get varied music to most venues you visit.

Don't you notice that intermediate/advanced dancers have been going to the same venue for years?? Why, because that's where their friends are and they dance their socks off all night. That's what people want, is somewhere they can socialise and dance a lot.

[Lee]

I agree!!

Now could we go one stage further and use Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs to create a Ceroc version??

Any offers? :confused:

Lee

[Lee]

:
Don't you notice that intermediate/advanced dancers have been going to the same venue for years?? Why, because that's where their friends are and they dance their socks off all night. That's what people want, is somewhere they can socialise and dance a lot.

I must say that recently i've tented to avoid the newbies (selfishly) in favour of dancing with the people i've known for a while and like dancing with.

I have 'done my bit' in the past to help new ladies (and guys) but i'm strugling to enjoy ceroc at mo, and enjuring new or poor dancers would probably reduce my enjoyment level to zero. Anyway, at the end of the day, i pay to go, i can do what i want can't i? (waiting for the all the critics now!!)

Lee

[Donna]

I agree!!

Now could we go one stage further and use Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs to create a Ceroc version??

Any offers? :confused:

Lee

:rofl:

[JonD]

Haven't had time to read the whole thread and I'm just dashing off on holiday!

Good music, good atmosphere and good followers - so I'll be going to Aberdeen after meeting Karen and Yvonne when they came to Exeter last weekend. Wow - they are brilliant!!

[Donna]

I must say that recently i've tented to avoid the newbies (selfishly) in favour of dancing with the people i've known for a while and like dancing with.

Can look at it both ways then I suppose. When experienced dancers are constantly being asked by beginners for a dance they most probably lose interest and they're the ones who leave. No one is ever happy I suppose. Which leaves me to say that people go to certain venues for different reasons. It's wherever suits them best.

[Lee]

Haven't had time to read the whole thread and I'm just dashing off on holiday!

Good music, good atmosphere and good followers - so I'll be going to Aberdeen after meeting Karen and Yvonne when they came to Exeter last weekend. Wow - they are brilliant!!

Have a good holiday, what about the Teacher?

Does the Teacher influence any factors that encourage you go stay at a venue over another?

I think in my case, i started Ceroc with a great teacher, and liked the venue & the people so it all comes hand in hand, plus we have Eric the Viking DJing.

What more can we ask for.....

Lee

[ChrisA]

but i'm strugling to enjoy ceroc at mo
Care to say why?

[Lee]

Answering 2 questions:

Obviously the location plays a big part, can i be bothered to travel far to a good venue or pop to my local one......it depends.

Why am i not enjoying Ceroc much at the mo (to Chris).........urmmm, bordom!

Is it bordom of the same old music, the same old people/faces.......no maybe not, i think it's probably because i get bored easily and i'm only commiting one evening per week to it and have reached a level i can't develop on without doing it more.

So i must be getting bored with myself (you may say).....well i suppose so, bored of doing the same (nice set of) moves with the ladies i dance with.

Well there's only one solution to that then!!!

Lee

[Donna]

Have a good holiday, what about the Teacher?

Does the Teacher influence any factors that encourage you go stay at a venue over another?

I think in my case, i started Ceroc with a great teacher, and liked the venue & the people so it all comes hand in hand, plus we have Eric the Viking DJing.

What more can we ask for.....

Lee

If we continue to get more beginners in my venue than Neil (that's the teacher) admits that they shouldn't expect them to grasp it first time, but to give it approximately four weeks and they'll start to get the just of it...and it's true. It makes the beginners more patient and then it becomes more enjoyable for them thereafter. He also provides them slips headed beginner moves or intermediate and four lines underneath so then people can just grab one and wright down all four moves that were taught on the night. The more beginners they're are, the more money the venue makes. It's all about encouraging them to stay for the money but the beginner benefits from all the help they receive as well.

[Lee]

He also provides them slips headed beginner moves or intermediate and four lines underneath so then people can just grab one and wright down all four moves that were taught on the night.

That is a great idea!! Could this be used as best practise across Ceroc??


The more beginners they're are, the more money the venue makes. It's all about encouraging them to stay for the money but the beginner benefits from all the help they receive as well..

Unfortunatly, money makes the world go round, and keeps business open.

It's not just about 'the more beginners there are, the more money the venue makes' surely it's equally about keeping the regulars coming back?

I hate it at a venue the week after a busking session, its crammed full of 1st timers, granted they don't stay the whole night, but i'd wish Ceroc would warn us, as i'd wear my steel toe caps. :D

Lee

[ChrisA]

bored of doing the same (nice set of) moves with the ladies i dance with.

After 14 months, yep that's about typical.



Well there's only one solution to that then!!!

:confused:

[Lee]

After 14 months, yep that's about typical.


:confused:


How have you measured this typical behaviour? :confused:

Why are you confussed, would you like me to explain.....the solution is too dance more, thus learning more moves, thus reducing my bordom factor, otherewise i need to stop moaning or stop dancing.

I'll wait till Camber to bolt on a few more nice moves. :clap: roll on Nov!!!

Lee

[Rhythm King]

How have you measured this typical behaviour? :confused:

Why are you confussed, would you like me to explain.....the solution is too dance more, thus learning more moves, thus reducing my bordom factor, otherewise i need to stop moaning or stop dancing.

I'll wait till Camber to bolt on a few more nice moves. :clap: roll on Nov!!!

Lee

Don't just get caught up in chasing moves. Try something different, like Jango, on a Monday (or their monthly tea dance) or one of Amir's musicality workshops, next one is the first weekend of September.

[ElaineB]

or one of Amir's musicality workshops, next one is the first weekend of September.

Where please?


Elaine

[Lee]

Don't just get caught up in chasing moves. Try something different, like Jango, on a Monday (or their monthly tea dance) or one of Amir's musicality workshops, next one is the first weekend of September.

Oh don't worry; I’m not one of those “I need 100 moves”. :eek:

I’ve learnt that it’s better to do a few moves exceptionally well than 100 badly, and have reduced my repertoire to about 30.

I like the fact these 30 moves link well, are smooth & easy to follow and allow me to switch to Blues style when the music accommodates. I only have 2 drops and 2 seducers in this repertoire and it includes a Tango lean from one of Amir’s classes.

I’ve done Jango, a bit of Latin stuff at Bognor and feel my style has moved away from Ceroc a little.

You’re right though, I need to try other stuff, thanks.

Lee

[Lee]

Where please?


Elaine

http://www.fusiondance.freeservers.com/custom3.html

The Hammersmith Club Society, Kent House, Rutland Grove, London W6 9DH

every Monday evening

Jango provides a relaxed and friendly atmosphere, a great dance floor, comfy lounge sofas, full bar, free parking and is close to Hammersmith tube. The Jango evening features a sexy, fun class, followed by freestyle dancing.

8.00pm Jango Class with Amir
Incorporating the best moves from around the world of dance including jive, west coast swing and tango.

9.00-11.00pm Freestyle with DJ Kenobe
DJ Kenobe presents "The Kenobe Dance Experience" with 2 hours of freestyle, featuring the Kenobe mix of today's chart music as well classic favourites with dance, latino, swing and jazz beats.

[Donna]

I hate it at a venue the week after a busking session, its crammed full of 1st timers, granted they don't stay the whole night, but i'd wish Ceroc would warn us, as i'd wear my steel toe caps. :D

Lee

Hey that's another good idea! Ceroc should sell steel toe cap shoes!! I've lost count how many times I have had my toes crushed by two/three inch needles :tears: :tears: :tears:


Yes it is extremely annoying after a busk and the next time you go to the class its overloaded.

[ElaineB]

http://www.fusiondance.freeservers.com/custom3.html

The Hammersmith Club Society, Kent House, Rutland Grove, London W6 9DH

every Monday evening

Jango provides a relaxed and friendly atmosphere, a great dance floor, comfy lounge sofas, full bar, free parking and is close to Hammersmith tube. The Jango evening features a sexy, fun class, followed by freestyle dancing.

8.00pm Jango Class with Amir
Incorporating the best moves from around the world of dance including jive, west coast swing and tango.

9.00-11.00pm Freestyle with DJ Kenobe
DJ Kenobe presents "The Kenobe Dance Experience" with 2 hours of freestyle, featuring the Kenobe mix of today's chart music as well classic favourites with dance, latino, swing and jazz beats.

Thanks for that information, Lee - it is the workshop that I am interested in. We come to the Tea Dance once a month, but Monday nights is a little far to commute........ :flower:


Elaine

[Donna]

Thanks for that information, Lee - it is the workshop that I am interested in. We come to the Tea Dance once a month, but Monday nights is a little far to commute........ :flower:


Elaine

Hmmm Jango sounds interesting. want to give this a go.

[Lee]

Thanks for that information, Lee - it is the workshop that I am interested in. We come to the Tea Dance once a month, but Monday nights is a little far to commute........ :flower:

Elaine

I remember it's once a month, not sure which Sunday of the month though

Lee

[Chef]

Thanks for that information, Lee - it is the workshop that I am interested in. We come to the Tea Dance once a month, but Monday nights is a little far to commute........ :flower:


Elaine

The Jango website has a link button at the top for workshops and all the information is there. It is on the 4th sept 1-5pm.

I know Elaine knows what she getting at an Amir workshop but to everyone else I would say catch Amirs lessons while you can before his professional dancing career (now he has graduated from Ballet Rambert) takes him away from the MJ world.

[Donna]

The Jango website has a link button at the top for workshops and all the information is there. It is on the 4th sept 1-5pm.

I know Elaine knows what she getting at an Amir workshop but to everyone else I would say catch Amirs lessons while you can before his professional dancing career (now he has graduated from Ballet Rambert) takes him away from the MJ world.

What?? You don't think he will leave do you??? :eek:

[Lee]

The Jango website has a link button at the top for workshops and all the information is there. It is on the 4th sept 1-5pm.

I know Elaine knows what she getting at an Amir workshop but to everyone else I would say catch Amirs lessons while you can before his professional dancing career (now he has graduated from Ballet Rambert) takes him away from the MJ world.

If i had a god, Amir would be it!!!!!! :worthy:

[Donna]

If i had a god, Amir would be it!!!!!! :worthy:

A dance god you mean??

[Chef]

What?? You don't think he will leave do you??? :eek:

I have no idea what is currently on the horizon for him. While he was a student at the Ballet Rambert school he was likely to be living in West London (where ther school is) and need additional income (a student after all).

Now he has graduated he must be looking for a professional career and it is my understanding that this can involve a lot of international travel. I just don't think we can take it for granted that he will always be available to teach us.

IMHO such is the quality of his teaching and the depth of his understanding that, if you are thinking of going to one of his lessons, it might be wiser to do it sooner rather than later.

Personally I wish him the very best for his professional career but a selfish part of me still wants him around to teach.

[Lee]

A dance god you mean??

Yes, i meant Dance god. it's amazing what one missing word does!! :cheers:

Lee

[Donna]

I have no idea what is currently on the horizon for him. While he was a student at the Ballet Rambert school he was likely to be living in West London (where ther school is) and need additional income (a student after all).

Now he has graduated he must be looking for a professional career and it is my understanding that this can involve a lot of international travel. I just don't think we can take it for granted that he will always be available to teach us.

IMHO such is the quality of his teaching and the depth of his understanding that, if you are thinking of going to one of his lessons, it might be wiser to do it sooner rather than later.

Personally I wish him the very best for his professional career but a selfish part of me still wants him around to teach.

Well I've heard he is a fabulous teacher and really knows what he is talking about. My partner had some training with him when he lived in London as well and he said he is just amazing and it really helped him. We were actually considering travelling down to london for more tuition so I better get down there before it's too late. He's always a joy to watch as well.

[New_to_London]

Forty eight people have voted in the poll (as of 16 August), so I figure it is about time to summarise the results, and adjust the numbers for gender differences, so it is easier to interpret. From the aggregate data, I can’t tell exactly how many men and how many women voted, but it seems that the ratio of women to men is roughly 2 to 1. That, in and of itself, is interesting, as it is a higher ratio than what you find at Ceroc venues (typically close to even numbers), and much higher than other online forums (which are typically dominated by men).

So, in providing the summary below, to compensate for this difference, I have multiplied the male results by a factor of 3 and the female results by a factor of 1.5, and rounded the percentages to the nearest 5%. This should allow for a better comparison:

MALE RESULTS

[20% Q1] ****
[60% Q2] ************
[95% Q3] *******************
[25% Q4] *****
[60% Q5] ************
[45% Q6] *********
[20% Q7] ****
[25% Q8] *****
[ 5% Q9] *

FEMALE RESULTS

[5% Q1] *
[60% Q2] ************
[95% Q3] *******************
[10% Q4] **
[20% Q5] ****
[60% Q6] ************
[25% Q7] *****
[15% Q8] ***
[ 5% Q9] *

So, an overwhelming 95% of respondents go to Ceroc venues because of the dance experience / feeling. What is interesting is that this is equally true for both men and women! 60% of respondents of both genders go to practice or learn new dance moves, and about 20-25% are hoping to find a regular dance partner.

Now, while roughly half of all respondents are interested in “meeting new people,” only about 25% of men and 15% of women are interested in meeting interesting or attractive members of the opposite sex. And, about 5% of both genders are searching for love. Not surprisingly, more men (25%) than women (10%) go there because of the social scene.

The most striking gender difference was in regard to choice #5: “I enjoy the physical interaction with [men / women].” 60% of men chose this option, while only 20% of women did. While the choice is perhaps not worded as well as it could be (it is somewhat ambiguous and left to personal interpretation), I wonder if this has more to do with lead and follow than with gender differences, per se.

Anyway, while there are numerous problems in methodology with this survey (such as the fact that it only queries the hard-core dancers who are on this forum), the results are nevertheless quite intriguing and educational.

[Donna]

Forty eight people have voted in the poll (as of 16 August), so I figure it is about time to summarise the results, and adjust the numbers for gender differences, so it is easier to interpret. From the aggregate data, I can’t tell exactly how many men and how many women voted, but it seems that the ratio of women to men is roughly 2 to 1. That, in and of itself, is interesting, as it is a higher ratio than what you find at Ceroc venues (typically close to even numbers), and much higher than other online forums (which are typically dominated by men).

So, in providing the summary below, to compensate for this difference, I have multiplied the male results by a factor of 3 and the female results by a factor of 1.5, and rounded the percentages to the nearest 5%. This should allow for a better comparison:

MALE RESULTS

[20% Q1] ****
[60% Q2] ************
[95% Q3] *******************
[25% Q4] *****
[60% Q5] ************
[45% Q6] *********
[20% Q7] ****
[25% Q8] *****
[ 5% Q9] *

FEMALE RESULTS

[5% Q1] *
[60% Q2] ************
[95% Q3] *******************
[10% Q4] **
[20% Q5] ****
[60% Q6] ************
[25% Q7] *****
[15% Q8] ***
[ 5% Q9] *

So, an overwhelming 95% of respondents go to Ceroc venues because of the dance experience / feeling. What is interesting is that this is equally true for both men and women! 60% of respondents of both genders go to practice or learn new dance moves, and about 20-25% are hoping to find a regular dance partner.

Now, while roughly half of all respondents are interested in “meeting new people,” only about 25% of men and 15% of women are interested in meeting interesting or attractive members of the opposite sex. And, about 5% of both genders are searching for love. Not surprisingly, more men (25%) than women (10%) go there because of the social scene.

The most striking gender difference was in regard to choice #5: “I enjoy the physical interaction with [men / women].” 60% of men chose this option, while only 20% of women did. While the choice is perhaps not worded as well as it could be (it is somewhat ambiguous and left to personal interpretation), I wonder if this has more to do with lead and follow than with gender differences, per se.

Anyway, while there are numerous problems in methodology with this survey (such as the fact that it only queries the hard-core dancers who are on this forum), the results are nevertheless quite intriguing and educational.

hmmmm interesting.....

[El Salsero Gringo]

Anyway, while there are numerous problems in methodology with this survey (such as the fact that it only queries the hard-core dancers who are on this forum), the results are nevertheless quite intriguing and educational.OK. Before I wade in with some comments, would you like to conclude the study by giving us your conclusions about the results? What do the percentages actually refer to in the wider dance world - your caveats about a limited sample size understood, naturally?

[LMC]

OK. Before I wade in with some comments, would you like to conclude the study by giving us your conclusions about the results? What do the percentages actually refer to in the wider dance world - your caveats about a limited sample size understood, naturally?
I would like to hypothesise that the meaning of the above results can be extrapolated to the wider dance world. A further hypothesis is that the meaning is

Dancing is nice. We like it.

[David Bailey]

I would like to hypothesise that the meaning of the above results can be extrapolated to the wider dance world. A further hypothesis is that the meaning is

Dancing is nice. We like it.
But not as nice as fuzzy bunnies.

Also, we haven't yet seen the "A" word, so I'll fan the flames a little.
"So, what's the conclusion about the average dancer then?"

* David tiptoes away back to the nice civilised astrology debate... *

[El Salsero Gringo]

I would like to hypothesise that the meaning of the above results can be extrapolated to the wider dance world.Me too. But what *is* the meaning of the above results about which you care to hypothesize in this way?

[LMC]

Me too. But what *is* the meaning of the above results about which you care to hypothesize in this way?


A further hypothesis is that the meaning is

Dancing is nice. We like it.

Not bad for a blonde I thought....

[bigdjiver]

A further hypothesis is that the meaning is ... Dancing is nice. We like it.I learn something every day.

I also dance because it keeps me fit and supple. Sitting at a computer for hours on end is not a healthy lifestyle. I also like to help people develop skills and confidence. I love seeing people smile. To a small extent I love performing, and watching others perform. I like the intellectual exercise of trying to improve the Ceroc business model so that the benefits of MJ are spread wider, and that the organisers make more money. There is even a little bit of time for people watching.

[Donna]

I also dance because it keeps me fit and supple. Sitting at a computer for hours on end is not a healthy lifestyle.

Too right it isn't. I have to keep wondering off to the loos for a stretch! I can't bare sitting down for any longer than 30 minutes or so.

[New_to_London]

OK. Before I wade in with some comments, would you like to conclude the study by giving us your conclusions about the results? What do the percentages actually refer to in the wider dance world - your caveats about a limited sample size understood, naturally?
I have no conclusions, per se, to offer. Being fairly new to the London Ceroc scene, it does help me get a slightly better “feel” for what some of the underlying motivations are. Yet, it raises many questions, and answers few.

One interesting observation is that the survey would suggest that the search for those of the opposite sex (e.g., Q7-10) plays a much smaller role than is commonly believed. Yet, this may simply be an artefact of the particular survey questions, and their structure. Or, it may be that those who are on this forum have somewhat different motivations from all those beginners who appear briefly, and then disappear, from the Ceroc scene. Of, it may be that the subject matter is somewhat taboo--people are more reluctant to talk about it openly. It is interesting that nobody admitted to being “on the hunt”--yet, anecdotal evidence would suggest that a good percentage may actually fall into this category. :-)

As for extrapolation to the wider dance world, I really don’t think that is possible. At best, it might suggest things to look for, in further research. But, let me make a more personal observation....

I have never been comfortable in regular clubs and bars, and have always been disappointed with the mono-dancing to thump-thump music that is popular, these days. It seems such a waste. In stark contrast, Ceroc dancing is a pleasure. I have become extremely comfortable in such environment. I’m hoping this style of dance continues to spread.

[Lee]

I have never been comfortable in regular clubs and bars, and have always been disappointed with the mono-dancing to thump-thump music that is popular, these days. It seems such a waste. In stark contrast, Ceroc dancing is a pleasure. I have become extremely comfortable in such environment. I’m hoping this style of dance continues to spread.

I was about to post a negative sarcastic comment (as i was getting bored with this thread going on so much), but then read your last paragraph, which made me do a u-turn. :eek:

I used to enjoy clubs & pubs etc but yes :clap: Ceroc dancing is a pleasure, not only because it's fun, and social but you do have the opportunity to keep fit and get better at something that other are impressed by.

However, I doubt many people would admit they are there primarily to meet a partner. :wink:

:cheers:
Lee

[RachD]

I was about to post a negative sarcastic comment (as i was getting bored with this thread going on so much), but then read your last paragraph, which made me do a u-turn. :eek:

I used to enjoy clubs & pubs etc but yes :clap: Ceroc dancing is a pleasure, not only because it's fun, and social but you do have the opportunity to keep fit and get better at something that other are impressed by.

However, I doubt many people would admit they are there primarily to meet a partner. :wink:

:cheers:
Lee


:yeah:

[JoC]

One interesting observation is that the survey would suggest that the search for those of the opposite sex (e.g., Q7-10) plays a much smaller role than is commonly believed. *snip* Or, it may be that those who are on this forum have somewhat different motivationsJust curious, where is this commonly believed? Think you're right about the different motivations, it seems possible that the forum members may be a tad more obsessed with the dancing. :)

[bigdjiver]

... I can't bare sitting down for any longer than 30 minutes or so. :devil: Do you have a webcam?

[Donna]

:devil: Do you have a webcam?

Er no... :confused:

[bigdjiver]

Er no... :confused:Bear?

[Whitebeard]

Do you have a webcam?
Er no... :confused:
That's a pity !! It could be quite interesting !!

[Whitebeard]

I can't bare sitting down for any longer than 30 minutes or so.
Duh, girly whirly oh. If you are goin' to get your spellin' wrong we are goin' to take advantage an' pull your leg a liitle. I do hope that leg is long and shapely and leads to heaven.

[under par]

Duh, girly whirly oh. If you are goin' to get your spellin' wrong we are goin' to take advantage an' pull your leg a liitle. I do hope that leg is long and shapely and leads to heaven.
Whitebeard please keep going .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................................
.................................................. ......what is heaven to you? :whistle:

[Whitebeard]

.... what is heaven to you?
Oh, no; that's a move too far. Some things are so personal and best left to the imagination. A secret between two.

[under par]

Oh, no; that's a move too far. Some things are so personal and best left to the imagination. A secret between two.

or three or a dozen especially here on the forum. You are with friends!!!