Chatting after a dance

[New_to_London]

Hello All,

This is my first posting on the forum, so bear with me. Also, take note that I am new to the UK, so I am not familiar with many British customs or unwritten rules (or even unwritten Ceroc rules :-)

I’ve been dancing regularly at Ceroc venues in London for over a month now (I learned Ceroc overseas), and I’m running into an issue that I am trying to grapple with. I’ve become very comfortable asking ladies for a dance, fairly skilled at leading most women through a range of moves, including some dips, drops, and seducers with the more experienced ladies. I’ve even received compliments on my ability to lead!

What I am having difficulty with is turning the dance experience into an opportunity to chat with the lady, after the dance.

Once the dance is over, for some reason it seems difficult to engage in any kind of conversation. For one, most venues are fairly loud, so conversations turn into shouting matches or awkward attempts at trying to understand what the other person is saying. Moreover, most women will say at some point, “Thank you for the dance.” This seems to be an indirect way of saying, “Ok. The dance is over. I’d like to move on now, dance with someone else, etc. etc.”

With some women, of course, you can tell from their body language that they wouldn’t be interested in chatting anyway. Yet, even if the body language appears encouraging, initiating conversation (for me) still seems awkward. For us men, talking and dancing at the same time is difficult (because of the way the male brain works). And, by the time the evening at the venue has ended (and it is much quieter), most of the women I might be interested in chatting with have already left.

I am interested in hearing suggestions from others (both men and women) as to how to cope with this problem. I am sure there are plenty of other men (and women) who would like to use Ceroc dancing as a opportunity to socialise and meet others. :-)

Ideally, it would be nice to have some mechanism for comfortably initiating a conversation immediately after a dance. :-)

Cheers,
New_to_London

[Zebra Woman]

Well NTL Hello :flower: and welcome.

I'll chat till the cows come home during a class (very quietly I hope). But my worst nightmare is being collared into a conversation at the end of a dance as the next song starts up, no conversation is fascinating enough to make me not want to dance. That's the bottom line for me.

It's nothing personal at all. I am exactly the same with good friends. I come out to dance and basically that is my number 1 priority.

I will only want to chat if I hate the song. If you ever hear GoldenBalls, Jimmy Mack, Rock and Roll, or Sisterheart - feel free to strike up a 3 minute conversation with me.

Sorry. I'm really shallow. I only say the briefest hello to female friends too, prefer to dance and catch up on the phone. I'm afraid a lot of them are as bad as me. Weekenders are great cos we have loads more time to socialise, but freestyles are way too short as it is.

If it's a keen dancer you're trying to chat to, I would suggest meeting beforehand for a drink as we are tonight, or chatting at the end of the evening.

If you're not sure just ask them, 'Are you one of those keen people who likes to keep dancing?'. Then you know the knock back is cos they are keen to dance.

Hope we have a dance soon

Alison

[Clive Long]

Hello All,

This is my first posting on the forum, so bear with me. Also, take note that I am new to the UK, so I am not familiar with many British customs or unwritten rules (or even unwritten Ceroc rules :-)
<< snip >>
Cheers,
New_to_London
One of the most important customs in order to be accepted quickly, especially when dancing, is to smear your backside in butter and wear a Viking helmet (plastic horns, obviously).

As I think of other important cultural norms I'll pass them on.

Clive

[Andreas]

But my worst nightmare is being collared into a conversation at the end of a dance as the next song starts up, no conversation is fascinating enough to make me not want to dance. That's the bottom line for me.

:yeah: :yeah:

It is indeed dreadful wasting good music when you could just as well chat during the dance :D

[Baruch]

It is indeed dreadful wasting good music when you could just as well chat during the dance :D
Chat during a dance? I've never been much good at that, personally. Anything beyond a couple of words, and my dancing suffers. It's the classic male syndrome: I can concentrate on dancing or chatting, but not both simultaneously.

[Lynn]

Moreover, most women will say at some point, “Thank you for the dance.” This seems to be an indirect way of saying, “Ok. The dance is over. I’d like to move on now, dance with someone else, etc. etc.” That sounds pretty much the norm - nothing personal at all. We are there to dance, not talk. And anyone who knows me, knows how unusual it is for me not to talk! :rofl: :rofl:

Personally I would only be interested in chatting if I was taking a break, sitting well away from the dance floor or even in another area/room/hallway. If I was sitting near the dance floor, I wouldn't want to get into a long conversation as I would probably want to get up for the next dance.

Dancing is a form of communication anyway. So enjoy the dances and then maybe try finding people to chat to at the end of the evening?

[JoC]

I come out to dance and basically that is my number 1 priority.
:yeah: isn't it the same for everyone :confused:

I find with Ceroc the class night or freestyle party night chats are so brief it takes a long time to find out anything non-dance related about people, but that can be interesting in itself, a little fact here, a little fact there... you might find that a little slow for your liking... (suits me sir, a little mystery never did anyone any harm)

Workshops and weekenders definitely seem to be the best socialising opportunities if that's your bag.

[MartinHarper]

What I am having difficulty with is turning the dance experience into an opportunity to chat with the lady, after the dance.

The keener dancers will normally dance during the event and not chat much. After, some of them may venture off to a local pub for some refreshing drink and conversation. But these semi-obsessives won't have much time for talking whilst music is playing, and even if you do talk to them, they'll be scanning the dance floor for their next partner. (and, most nights, this is me too)

However, they represent only a small proportion of folks at your average MJ venue. Lots of other folks are happy to have a chat, then a dance, then sit down for a bit more chatting, and so forth, and partner dance remains a wonderful way to meet new people. So don't be dismayed. Here's a few ideas:

1) Look for folks who are sitting out chatting. They're probably more open to a light chat than folks who are spending all their time on the floor.
2) Accompany your partner back to her chair, if she is going to sit down again, and grab a seat next to her.
3) If it's hot, you both might want to go outside to cool off, or to the bar for a drink. Bonus: the music is quieter.
4) Different venues have a different atmosphere. So try a few places, maybe different dance styles, and find somewhere that's right for you.

It's also possible to chat whilst dancing and during the lesson.

[JoC]

It's also possible to chat whilst dancing.
technically speaking...but some ladies might not be impressed... :whistle:

I know I'm antisocial

[MartinHarper]

Anything beyond a couple of words, and my dancing suffers.

Me too.
The difference is, I don't mind. After all, if my partner and I are engrossed in conversation, do we particularly care if the dancing is just marking time?

[New_to_London]

Chat during a dance? I've never been much good at that, personally. Anything beyond a couple of words, and my dancing suffers. It's the classic male syndrome: I can concentrate on dancing or chatting, but not both simultaneously.
Indeed. Talking and dancing at the same time seems hopeless, for me. My dance movements have to pretty much come to a halt, although I might put the woman into a basket or some other convenient position, and at least move around a little.

Similarly, chatting during a lesson completely breaks the focus. Unless I already know most of the moves (such as during a beginner’s class), I will seriously mess things up, once I stop chatting and attempt the routine.

Men can do only one thing at a time. Women, on the other hand, are much better at multi-tasking. This is well documented in such books as, “Why men don’t listen and women can’t read maps.” (Pease)

[Mary]

Welcome NTL - hope we get the chance to dance at some point. The English do have some strange customs, but go north of the border and - well - you'll find out!!! :wink:

Chatting at dance venues varies, I think, depending on the venue, and possibly on what part of the country you are in. I have recently learnt to be more sociable, but I do find it hard to chat when I can't hear what's being said above the music - some venues are better for that than others. BUT there is nothing more frustrating than someone trying to chat to you when one of your favourite tracks is playing and you just HAVE to dance to it. :mad: And even more frustrating is when you've excused yourself to dance to said favourite track and by then all the men are taken (assuming the chatter is more interested in chatting than dancing).

So it's nothing personal, and most chatting is done at the end of the evening as any venue owner will tell you when they are trying to boot people out and go home.

M

[New_to_London]

I completely understand the sentiments behind wanting to dance the night away--in verbal silence. When I first started dancing at Ceroc venues, I was amazed at how easy it was to ask a lady to dance, and impressed by the low rejection ratio. I now do the asking using body language alone, and have been guilty of spending an entire evening on the dance floor, moving from one partner to another, without uttering a word. This is certainly a lot of fun, in and of itself. And, this has done wonders for improving my dance technique and style!

But, I don’t regard dancing at such venues as an end in itself. It is a social event, after all. And, my ulterior motive is to meet new people. A Ceroc dance functions as the ultimate icebreaker: Within seconds of seeing an attractive lady--a complete stranger--I can be holding her in my arms. And, I might even be able to impress her with a well-lead and natural flow, or a few exotic moves. It can be almost magical!

Yet, the very environment that enables this--the unspoken rules and expectations--also creates the problems I am presently struggling with. There is an unspoken Ceroc rule that a request for a dance is for one and only one dance. Once the song is over, there is a silent expectation that the dance will end, and the partners will part ways. This is the normal pattern, and it is of course easier to follow such pattern than to attempt to change it.

To ask for a second dance now becomes slightly awkward--it involves breaking this pattern. The onus is on the man--or the woman--to make the request. I haven’t quite mastered the art of making such request using body language alone--I usually need to say something. But, given that I have sometimes heard excuses or justifications for such a request (e.g., the previous song was too short or we started dancing mid-song), I suspect there is some guilt or discomfort associated with such pattern-breaking.

I am finding that suggesting a third dance, or a stroll off the dance floor for some light conversation, is much more awkward than the whole dance-initiation process. I’m still trying to figure out why this is so. I think it has something to do with breaking the above-mentioned pattern. The fact that it requires some verbal exchanges, which at the larger venues amount to shouting contests, doesn’t help. The body language associated with shouting is far less appealing than a natural soft-spoken suggestion.

The best time to suggest conversation seems to be during the dance, or immediately after it--while that magical spell still holds. With a complete stranger, making conversation before the dance is awkward because no connection has been made. And, if you wait until long after the dance, in most cases the lady will be dancing (or in conversation) with someone else, or will have already left the venue. So, the opportunity will be lost.

I like the concept of going to a pub after the venue--and I commend Simon for encouraging this in his ISH class. But, only a small percentage of women actually do this, so the ratio is skewed. Moreover, if the pub becomes crowded--as is often the case--then this too makes conversation difficult.

A week ago, I learned the “flashy caveman exit,” a move I need to practice. This is a variation of the basic first move (or Wurlitzer) seducer, with woman’s right arm around guy’s waist. But, instead of exiting by lifting the woman upright, the man keeps the woman in the lowered position, and proceeds to walk toward his left, dragging the woman along. Perhaps, this is a more acceptable way of enticing a lady off the dance floor for some light conversation. :-) After all, it is a legitimate Ceroc move! :-)

However, I am open to other creative suggestions for initiating conversation. :-)

[Lynn]

If a guy asks for a second dance I take it as a compliment and acknowledgement that he enjoyed the first one. Doesn't matter if its breaking the 'routine'. No tips for initiating conversation expect to agree that its much easier at a weekender.

Not sure that dragging a woman off the floor would necessarily guarantee you a conversation! :rofl:

[wicked blue]

well this caveman exit is certainly an original way of coming off the dance floor after a dance - wether it would actually then lead to conversation is another thing! I'm with Mary on this one, although i do engage in some conversation between dances, if a good dance comes on then i'm off to get a guy!!! and you've got to be quick in this game as if your not on the ball then you miss the opportunity of a good dance because all have been taken!

Nothing personal to the guys but i go to dance, i guess it goes back to the old adage of how addicted to dancing you are!! :blush:

[Andy McGregor]

I suppose NTL needs to consider his motivation. Does he just want to get to know more people in London or does he want to find love? I've observed both are possible through the medium of MJ. When I give one of my after consolidation lesson mini-chats I cover this subject. It goes something like this;

We try to create a friendly atmosphere at our lessons. We all have one thing in common, that is that we're all here to dance. So, don't be surprised if someone asks you to dance - but please remember that is all you've been asked for and all someone has agreed to do with you. This isn't a nightclub where an offer of a dance leaves much unspoken, it's often an offer for more or a request for more. But here at a dance class a request for a dance is no more than that. If you'd like more you will have to be specific and you might be refused - but then again, you might not :wink:

People go to dance class for many reasons. Some of them are there to find someone to chat with - but to start chatting without finding out is asking for a polite disappearing act when the next track starts.

[Russell Saxby]

Well I was teaching at the Grand on Monday, up until last week, and we used to get a good crowd (about 30 dancers) over the pub opposite afterwards - it is a great way to chat with dancers off the dance floor. Ruth, has taken over teaching this week, not sure if she will be encouraging the pub thing. But I am back for a one off on the 15th August, and will be goiong for a drink afterwards - please feel free to join us.

[Tazmanian Devil]

Hi new to london, The problem with chatting after a dance would be there is no where near enough time to dance and talk in one night. It's not that us ladys cannot wait to get away from the person she has been dancing with, It's more where is the next dance coming from?
Where as if you go to one of the dance holidays like Jive holidays at Camber or Bogner You have 3 days worth of dancing and do tend to talk to people after a dance. Usually it starts with where do you dance regular? and progresses from there. :flower:
Have you ventured down to Greenwich on a tuesday night yet? Great night and every one is soo friendly :kiss: :hug:

[New_to_London]

As a newcomer, I just want to say that I’m impressed with the level and quality of comments I have received. I especially liked the detailed comments from MartinHarper. I’ve actually started going to the pub gatherings after some of the venues. I’m not accustomed to being in loud and crowded pubs, so I still find making conversation in such environments rather difficult (I tend to be soft-spoken). But, I did have a pleasant experience over the weekend at one pub, primarily because it was quite roomy, and a bit quieter.

I recently learned that the “one song, one dance” rule seems to be unique to the UK (or possibly even London). Apparently, in Australia (and New Zealand), it would be considered rude to just dance one dance. :-)

[Donna]

Hello All,

This is my first posting on the forum, so bear with me. Also, take note that I am new to the UK, so I am not familiar with many British customs or unwritten rules (or even unwritten Ceroc rules :-)

I’ve been dancing regularly at Ceroc venues in London for over a month now (I learned Ceroc overseas), and I’m running into an issue that I am trying to grapple with. I’ve become very comfortable asking ladies for a dance, fairly skilled at leading most women through a range of moves, including some dips, drops, and seducers with the more experienced ladies. I’ve even received compliments on my ability to lead!

What I am having difficulty with is turning the dance experience into an opportunity to chat with the lady, after the dance.

Once the dance is over, for some reason it seems difficult to engage in any kind of conversation. For one, most venues are fairly loud, so conversations turn into shouting matches or awkward attempts at trying to understand what the other person is saying. Moreover, most women will say at some point, “Thank you for the dance.” This seems to be an indirect way of saying, “Ok. The dance is over. I’d like to move on now, dance with someone else, etc. etc.”

With some women, of course, you can tell from their body language that they wouldn’t be interested in chatting anyway. Yet, even if the body language appears encouraging, initiating conversation (for me) still seems awkward. For us men, talking and dancing at the same time is difficult (because of the way the male brain works). And, by the time the evening at the venue has ended (and it is much quieter), most of the women I might be interested in chatting with have already left.

I am interested in hearing suggestions from others (both men and women) as to how to cope with this problem. I am sure there are plenty of other men (and women) who would like to use Ceroc dancing as a opportunity to socialise and meet others. :-)

Ideally, it would be nice to have some mechanism for comfortably initiating a conversation immediately after a dance. :-)

Cheers,
New_to_London

Hi NTL and welcome to the forum (I must warn you it is addictive!!)

Anyway, I'm sure the fact that some people don't want to make conversation straight after a track is that they are there only to dance and chat with whoever at the end of the night. If everybody wanted to chat after every dance then there would be nobody on the dancefloor. Don't take it personally.

How long have you been dancing for and where have you come over from??
Maybe it worked differently over there???

What everyone tends to do in my local venue is go to the pub after for a good ol gossip. I can imagine how it feels for you being new to a class though, but I'm sure if you just stroll along nobody is going to leave you out.

At least being on the forum is a good way of meeting people who go to your venue as well....so it's a start. Done the right thing. :nice:

[Donna]

One of the most important customs in order to be accepted quickly, especially when dancing, is to smear your backside in butter and wear a Viking helmet (plastic horns, obviously).

As I think of other important cultural norms I'll pass them on.

Clive

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Ballroom queen]

........... There is an unspoken Ceroc rule that a request for a dance is for one and only one dance. Once the song is over, there is a silent expectation that the dance will end, and the partners will part ways. This is the normal pattern, and it is of course easier to follow such pattern than to attempt to change it.

To ask for a second dance now becomes slightly awkward--it involves breaking this pattern. The onus is on the man--or the woman--to make the request. I haven’t quite mastered the art of making such request using body language alone--I usually need to say something. ..........

This is interesting, when I started ceroc, many moons ago, the un-spoken rule was 2 dances, when did this change to one? (I agree with NTL, it does now appear to be one, but when and why?)

If I have had a good to fab dance with someone, then I will want another - sometimes it feels like they are ready to find a new partner, or other times I will ask for another. Its nice to be asked for another as well. As for chatting, I agree with NTL, its nice to chat and meet new people, but I agree with Andy, some how there needs to be a balance. All very tricky!!!

[David Bailey]

This is interesting, when I started ceroc, many moons ago, the un-spoken rule was 2 dances, when did this change to one?
Good question - and you're right, it was 2 a few years back - I never even noticed the change... :confused:

Still, it's worse in salsa - you're usually given a "you what? Weirdo..." look if you ask a stranger for a second dance there.

[Andreas]

Good question - and you're right, it was 2 a few years back - I never even noticed the change... :confused:

Still, it's worse in salsa - you're usually given a "you what? Weirdo..." look if you ask a stranger for a second dance there.

Sadly true, oh fellow-puker :rofl:

I always try to have two dances (or more) because if things go wrong in the first dance it always is kind of devastating for the person who tripped.

[New_to_London]

When I was in New Zealand (where I first learned to dance Ceroc), it was quite normal in freestyle to have a few dances (usually 2 to 4 songs), and then to chat afterward. This was the expectation. While this resulted in dancing with fewer people, the interaction was a bit more substantial.

Here in London, the expectation is quite different: one song, one dance, with little or no chatting afterward. If you try to break this pattern, it is a struggle. Interestingly, I’ve also heard about some Aussies (who have come to the UK) complain about the lack of post-dance chatting.

I’m wondering if the issue I am running into is primarily a cultural one. The English do have a reputation for not being very chatty with strangers. :-)

Any more thoughts? Suggestions?

How do you initiate conversations with complete strangers after a dance?

[Donna]

When I was in New Zealand (where I first learned to dance Ceroc), it was quite normal in freestyle to have a few dances (usually 2 to 4 songs), and then to chat afterward. This was the expectation. While this resulted in dancing with fewer people, the interaction was a bit more substantial.

Here in London, the expectation is quite different: one song, one dance, with little or no chatting afterward. If you try to break this pattern, it is a struggle. Interestingly, I’ve also heard about some Aussies (who have come to the UK) complain about the lack of post-dance chatting.

I’m wondering if the issue I am running into is primarily a cultural one. The English do have a reputation for not being very chatty with strangers. :-)

Any more thoughts? Suggestions?

How do you initiate conversations with complete strangers after a dance?

From what I've heard having more than one or two dances with somone over here...and you're classed as a dance snob. :angry: It's wrong...I think you can have as many dances with whoever you want for as long as you want....just like they do in NZ.

[Trish]

When I was in New Zealand (where I first learned to dance Ceroc), it was quite normal in freestyle to have a few dances (usually 2 to 4 songs), and then to chat afterward. This was the expectation. While this resulted in dancing with fewer people, the interaction was a bit more substantial.

Here in London, the expectation is quite different: one song, one dance, with little or no chatting afterward. If you try to break this pattern, it is a struggle. Interestingly, I’ve also heard about some Aussies (who have come to the UK) complain about the lack of post-dance chatting.

I’m wondering if the issue I am running into is primarily a cultural one. The English do have a reputation for not being very chatty with strangers. :-)

Any more thoughts? Suggestions?

How do you initiate conversations with complete strangers after a dance?


I was thinking about this. I think I started talking about dance to most of the people I've ended up friends with. I would ask them to show me a move they'd been doing or go through something with me or teach them something, and have a bit of a laugh with them whilst doing it. Or sometimes I'd talk to them about whether they were going to a freestyle night just as we were coming of the floor. I also find that arranging to travel to freestyles/workshops with other people is a good way to get friendly. That way you can talk in the car, and also when you first arrive and when the music has finished at the end of the night. As has already been said, it doesn't always work, if it's the person's favourite song or whatever they're not going to want to chat, but it's worth plugging away at! If you can find just one friendly person, they'll often introduce you to others. Workshops and weekenders are better though, as you get more time away from dancing.

If you ever get a chance to come to Peterborough (only an hour on the train from Kings Cross - although I don't know about the trains back), there seems to be more of a chatty culture up here - people do sometimes sit and chat while the freestyle goes on, and sometimes chat for ages afterwards, I've often been talking for 45 minutes after freestyle has ended and had to rush home so my husband doesn't wonder where I am! PM me if you like the idea anyway.

[TiggsTours]

What I am having difficulty with is turning the dance experience into an opportunity to chat with the lady, after the dance.


Please excuse me if I've got this wrong, but it may be that the woman gets the impression you've just asked her to dance in order to hit on her afterwards!

Firstly, most of us ladies are there to dance, that is priority number 1, so chatting while the music is still playing is a big no no.
Secondly, to be honest, alot of us have got sick of being hit on in other walks of life, its nice to get away from that when you go dancing.
Thirdly, when there are always ladies over, we get less dancing than you guys anyway, so would be less inclined to want to waste any time chatting, we've probably done lots of that with our female friends, while waiting for a man to become free!

If you are just trying to meet people, and make new friends in London, that's great! and I fully appreciate just how tough it is, but if that's the case, why does it have to be a lady? The tea dances are great, because people are more inclined to chat anyway, and there is generally always a group of people that go on somewhere afterwards, you could just subtly ask, during the dance, or at the end when people are hanging around a bit, anyone knows if that happens, if they do, say to them, I'm new to London, do you mind if I tag along? I don't think many people would mind that at all.

If of course you are more interested in a specific lady, try asking her for the last dance, that way, if she doesn't want to chat afterwards, you know that her desire to dance not the reason, so cut your losses.

[CJ]

One of the most important customs in order to be accepted quickly, especially when dancing, is to smear your backside in butter and wear a Viking helmet (plastic horns, obviously).

As I think of other important cultural norms I'll pass them on.

Clive

Clive, the man is new to London. I thought it was a bit shabby of you not to tell him about the Hammersmith customs... (but am glad you did mention the horns need to be plastic: safety first!!)

NTL, when dancing in Hammersmith, particularly close to the stage, it's quite a local custom (they are famous for perokial attitudes in hammersmith) but you will not get a dance unless you walk up and say, "U gonna shake ur ass on the floor, beeyatch?"

Once I got used to that, I found London a great place to dance. Actually, very very sociable. :D :cheers:

Oh, and welcome!!

[Rachel]

Please excuse me if I've got this wrong, but it may be that the woman gets the impression you've just asked her to dance in order to hit on her afterwards!

Firstly, most of us ladies are there to dance, that is priority number 1, so chatting while the music is still playing is a big no no.
Secondly, to be honest, alot of us have got sick of being hit on in other walks of life, its nice to get away from that when you go dancing.
Thirdly, when there are always ladies over, we get less dancing than you guys anyway, so would be less inclined to want to waste any time chatting, we've probably done lots of that with our female friends, while waiting for a man to become free!

If you are just trying to meet people, and make new friends in London, that's great! and I fully appreciate just how tough it is, but if that's the case, why does it have to be a lady? The tea dances are great, because people are more inclined to chat anyway, and there is generally always a group of people that go on somewhere afterwards, you could just subtly ask, during the dance, or at the end when people are hanging around a bit, anyone knows if that happens, if they do, say to them, I'm new to London, do you mind if I tag along? I don't think many people would mind that at all.

If of course you are more interested in a specific lady, try asking her for the last dance, that way, if she doesn't want to chat afterwards, you know that her desire to dance not the reason, so cut your losses.
:yeah: Totally agree with this. I find it very awkward when people want to talk during the evening - simply because I just want to get on with the dancing. In fact, if a man is hanging about talking to me for a while, I ask him to dance as a sure fire way of getting him to stop. It's easier then, after the dance, to say thank you and walk away.

However, at the end of the evening when all the music's stopped (note - all the music, even the wierd 'please go home' bonus track at the end, which is usually the best track of the night) I'm happy to hang about forever and talk to anyone.

Rachel

[David Bailey]

NTL, when dancing in Hammersmith, particularly close to the stage, it's quite a local custom (they are famous for perokial attitudes in hammersmith) but you will not get a dance unless you walk up and say, "U gonna shake ur ass on the floor, beeyatch?"
OK, that one's gotta go in the Truth Or Dare thread...

[Donna]

:yeah: Totally agree with this. I find it very awkward when people want to talk during the evening - simply because I just want to get on with the dancing. In fact, if a man is hanging about talking to me for a while, I ask him to dance as a sure fire way of getting him to stop. It's easier then, after the dance, to say thank you and walk away.

However, at the end of the evening when all the music's stopped (note - all the music, even the wierd 'please go home' bonus track at the end, which is usually the best track of the night) I'm happy to hang about forever and talk to anyone.

Rachel

:yeah: I'm exactly the same. If you were to stop and hold a conversation with everybody on a dance night, well, you would hardly ever be on the floor would you?? I'll talk to them at the end of the night though of course.

[El Salsero Gringo]

:yeah: I'm exactly the same. If you were to stop and hold a conversation with everybody on a dance night, well, you would hardly ever be on the floor would you?? I'll talk to them at the end of the night though of course.There was I thinking I got asked to dance because the ladies liked to dance with me, and now I discover it's just to shut me up. Another illusion shattered on the rock-like anvil of the Ceroc Scotland Forum...

[Donna]

There was I thinking I got asked to dance because the ladies liked to dance with me, and now I discover it's just to shut me up. Another illusion shattered on the rock-like anvil of the Ceroc Scotland Forum...

Awwww come on ESG. It's not that bad. I'll talk for a bit...but it's usually these really old men that tend to go on and on and on and on (sigh) so grab them on the floor....then as Rach put it 'walk away!' and it works!!! These men don't realise it i don't think anyway... :rolleyes:

I'm sure you would do the same if you were dying for a dance but this women just kept blabbering on.

[Rachel]

There was I thinking I got asked to dance because the ladies liked to dance with me, and now I discover it's just to shut me up. Another illusion shattered on the rock-like anvil of the Ceroc Scotland Forum... We love dancing with you!!! Please be there tonight?
R.

[El Salsero Gringo]

We love dancing with you!!! Please be there tonight?
R.Oh all right then. 'Cos you asked.

[Donna]

Oh all right then. 'Cos you asked.

ESG where do you dance then???

[El Salsero Gringo]

Tonight will be at Greenford. I'll be the one with the gaffer tape over my mouth, just so that no one has to ask me to dance.

[Zebra Woman]

There was I thinking I got asked to dance because the ladies liked to dance with me, and now I discover it's just to shut me up. Another illusion shattered on the rock-like anvil of the Ceroc Scotland Forum...

It's a kind of compliment ESG. The better the dancer you are - the harder it is for us to spend time talking to you if good music is playing in the background..

Think back. Have I ever talked to you on a freestyle night while decent music is playing?

NO. :what:

Life is too short, and we have things to do.....

Talking at the end of the night or during a naff track is fine.

[El Salsero Gringo]

It's a kind of compliment ESG. The better the dancer you are - the harder it is for us to spend time talking to you if good music is playing in the background..

Think back. Have I ever talked to you on a freestyle night while decent music is playing?

NO. :what:

Life is too short, and we have things to do.....

Talking at the end of the night or during a naff track is fine.That's OK. (sniff.) Don't feel you have to console me, or be nice to me just because my execrable conversational skills have been so publicly trashed.

Just....


DANCE WITH ME!

[LMC]

DANCE WITH ME!
But your dancing is too good, you intimidate me

[El Salsero Gringo]

But your dancing is too good, you intimidate meOK. You know what? I think I preferred it when you were slagging us guys off for talking too much. That was much more comfortable.

[Donna]

OK. You know what? I think I preferred it when you were slagging us guys off for talking too much. That was much more comfortable.

Talking too much?? What's this about then. Think I missed a bit on the thread??

[LMC]

OK. You know what? I think I preferred it when you were slagging us guys off for talking too much. That was much more comfortable.
He's so cute when he gets in a tizzy :drool:

:devil:

[Donna]

you've got an admirer ESG. :rolleyes:

[Mary]

Tonight will be at Greenford. I'll be the one with the gaffer tape over my mouth, just so that no one has to ask me to dance.


So that's what the gaffa tape is for. Wish I'd thought of it before. :rolleyes:

Nah, only kidding..........well, a bit. :D :devil:

M

[RogerR]

In big town metropolitan classes the classes are early and the freestyle is about an hour (20 tracks) as people may have homes a 90 minute commute by public transport away. So the dancing is precious, dance it Ask someone for a second dance as a starter. Also in London classes are partly a Gymn thing, get and keep fit. The social side shows in longer events, saturday dances, and weekenders. and in the bar afterwards. Ask where the afterparty bar is early in the evening and ask people if they will be going there.

[Minnie M]

Please excuse me if I've got this wrong, but it may be that the woman gets the impression you've just asked her to dance in order to hit on her afterwards!............./snip/.........If of course you are more interested in a specific lady, try asking her for the last dance, that way, if she doesn't want to chat afterwards, you know that her desire to dance not the reason, so cut your losses.
:yeah: good post :yeah: use your chill out/cool down time to chat OR the after dance pub/coffee (class days) and if you are interested in a particular person (be it for friendship or a relationship) persuade them to go to a T-Dance, then you could go for a meal after :clap:

[New_to_London]

Please excuse me if I've got this wrong, but it may be that the woman gets the impression you've just asked her to dance in order to hit on her afterwards! ...
... [T]o be honest, alot of us have got sick of being hit on in other walks of life, its nice to get away from that when you go dancing.Your point is well taken. Ceroc venues universally provide a pleasant and non-threatening atmosphere, where women are comfortable interacting with men. It is important to maintain that healthy atmosphere; otherwise, women will become reluctant to come again. And, as can be seen from this forum, or witnessed on any Ceroc dance floor, women (and men) are there to dance!

That said, it has always been the case that wherever men and women happen to interact, be it in a university class, an office environment, or on the dance floor, there is always the possibility that such interaction may progress beyond mere social formalities. And, it is usually the male who is stuck with the burden of encouraging that progress.

When a woman complains of being “hit on”, she is usually referring to unwanted advances by men. Yet, this is very much a state of mind. Some women will think they are being “hit on”, just because somebody smiles at them, or happens to sit down next to them. Other women will be chatting away, dancing, exchanging phone numbers, without even considering the possibility that they are being “hit on”--they are just being friendly and sociable.

If they find the man interesting and attractive, and there is “chemistry,” the advances may be quite welcome. Yet, the very same actions and words spoken by someone else may create strong negative vibes--and spur complaints of being “hit on.” To us men, such behaviour can be utterly confusing and bewildering.

Most men will be very cautious or go to extreme lengths not to create the feeling in a women that she is being “hit on.” And, it would seem that following the custom of breaking off a dance after one song, and not chatting afterward, is very much part of such “safe” behaviour. When repeated by large numbers of people, it becomes a reinforced “norm.”

As a result, any deviation from such norm--such as chatting after a dance--is more likely to be interpreted as an advance. And, if you need to whisk the lady off the dance floor into a quieter setting, in order to be able to hold a decent conversation in the first place, the chances of such interpretation dramatically increase. So, then, whether or not the lady feels like she is being “hit on” is largely a matter of how she feels about the man she has just danced with.

Men, of course, are not psychic. They often have no idea how the woman is feeling, and therefore don’t know whether or not their advances will be welcome. While some men are pretty good at reading body language, a brief conversation will often provide some better clues. Moreover, such conversation enables the man to learn something more about the woman than her mere physical appearance and level of dance skill.

Give us men a break! We are the ones who have to do the initiating, and are most likely to suffer rejection as a result. If you get “hit on,” consider yourself lucky. There are many women who would love to be in your position, and be able to attract men in that way.

Thwarting off such unwanted advances is quite easy. You can just say “thank you,” end the dance, and walk away, as is customary. You can frown, wave goodbye, or give him the finger. You can tell him you have a jealous boyfriend or a communicable disease. The possibilities are endless. Or, just be direct: Tell him point blank, “I’m not interested.”

[Donna]

Ceroc venues universally provide a pleasant and non-threatening atmosphere, where women are comfortable interacting with men.


:yeah: That's true. Mind you, you will find you get the odd couple of men that act quite strange...e.g there are a couple of guys up here that are well known for stalking women. They both look similar as well which is freaky and they walk around the floor eying up loads of women. You see a lot of women making up excuses or pretending they're deep in conversation when he tries to approach them. (I'm one of them!)





When a woman complains of being “hit on”, she is usually referring to unwanted advances by men. Yet, this is very much a state of mind. Some women will think they are being “hit on”, just because somebody smiles at them, or happens to sit down next to them. Other women will be chatting away, dancing, exchanging phone numbers, without even considering the possibility that they are being “hit on”--they are just being friendly and sociable.

You're right I think their are some people who are paranoid and think they are only after one thing. But maybe it's the fact that they have experienced it too much in the past and it's knowing who to trust I suppose. One girl in my line dance felt as though the teacher kept eyeing her up...and told her that she is far too young for him to be eyeing up plus he's married, loves his wife to bits and that she was just being pathetic!! This man tends to stare in space sometimes or if he see's a good dancer on the floor then he will watch...but there is no way he is like what she was making him out to be 'some kinda perv!!'

I think this is the same case in ceroc venues. It may well be some men are just extremely friendly or they stare a lot anyway. Maybe they don't even realise they're staring at you. Could be they're interested in the way someone is dancing.


Yet, the very same actions and words spoken by someone else may create strong negative vibes--and spur complaints of being “hit on.”

:yeah:


It's not just always the women complaining of being 'hit on' either, but can be the other way around.

One girl I know just wanted to keep dancing with this guy because he's just an amazing dancer...then she was accused of stalking him!! :rolleyes:

[TiggsTours]

Your point is well taken. Ceroc venues universally provide a pleasant and non-threatening atmosphere, where women are comfortable interacting with men. It is important to maintain that healthy atmosphere; otherwise, women will become reluctant to come again. And, as can be seen from this forum, or witnessed on any Ceroc dance floor, women (and men) are there to dance!

Apologies if I offended, the only reason I got this impression was that you stressed about talking to women. If your only interest is social interaction, why can you not socially interact with other men?


And, it is usually the male who is stuck with the burden of encouraging that progress.

Give us men a break! We are the ones who have to do the initiating, and are most likely to suffer rejection as a result.

Not so! I'm not at all adverse to making all the moves if I am intrested in a man, and have done on many an occassion!


When a woman complains of being “hit on”, she is usually referring to unwanted advances by men. Yet, this is very much a state of mind. Some women will think they are being “hit on”, just because somebody smiles at them, or happens to sit down next to them. Other women will be chatting away, dancing, exchanging phone numbers, without even considering the possibility that they are being “hit on”--they are just being friendly and sociable.

Point taken, you're probably right. But even if I was interested in a guy at a dance, I'd rather he waited till the end of the evening before he tried chatting to me. In fact, if I am interested in a guy at a dance, I always make a point of finding him at the end of the evening to say thank you for the dance, always a good to start a conversation.



While some men are pretty good at reading body language,

Hah! Where! Show me one, pleeeeeease!!!


If you get “hit on,” consider yourself lucky. There are many women who would love to be in your position, and be able to attract men in that way.

I'm sure every woman out there will tell you horror stories of un-welcome advances!


Thwarting off such unwanted advances is quite easy. You can just say “thank you,” end the dance, and walk away, as is customary. You can frown, wave goodbye, or give him the finger. You can tell him you have a jealous boyfriend or a communicable disease. The possibilities are endless. Or, just be direct: Tell him point blank, “I’m not interested.”

We've all done that, we've all resorted to being rude, due to men not being good at reading body language, sometimes some guys just still don't get the message!

[JoC]

I'm finding it very hard to resist asking if NtL has pulled yet, oops! Damn my thinking in type...

[Clive Long]

Please excuse me if I've got this wrong, but it may be that the woman gets the impression you've just asked her to dance in order to hit on her afterwards!

Firstly, most of us ladies are there to dance, that is priority number 1, so chatting while the music is still playing is a big no no.
Secondly, to be honest, alot of us have got sick of being hit on in other walks of life, its nice to get away from that when you go dancing.
Thirdly, when there are always ladies over, we get less dancing than you guys anyway, so would be less inclined to want to waste any time chatting, we've probably done lots of that with our female friends, while waiting for a man to become free!

If you are just trying to meet people, and make new friends in London, that's great! and I fully appreciate just how tough it is, but if that's the case, why does it have to be a lady? The tea dances are great, because people are more inclined to chat anyway, and there is generally always a group of people that go on somewhere afterwards, you could just subtly ask, during the dance, or at the end when people are hanging around a bit, anyone knows if that happens, if they do, say to them, I'm new to London, do you mind if I tag along? I don't think many people would mind that at all.

If of course you are more interested in a specific lady, try asking her for the last dance, that way, if she doesn't want to chat afterwards, you know that her desire to dance not the reason, so cut your losses.

This all seems rather angry to me.

Before I go dancin' I think of romancin' but the dancin' kinda takes over.

And since when has it been a crime for men to try to attract women (and vice versa)? - "hit" in your terms.

Such titanium-plated responses make me sad for da yoof of today.

Or maybe I misunderstood where you are coming from (it has been known). No, where you are really, really coming from. What you really feel ... you are feeling sleeeepy .....

Clive

[Lynn]

And since when has it been a crime for men to try to attract women (and vice versa)? :yeah: I don't think there is anything wrong with someone wanting to find a partner and being open to that happening at a dance venue, or even looking around to see if there are potential people they might get on with.

What isn't nice is someone going exclusively for that reason, trying to chat people up, not being interested in making friends with people unless they are a potential partner etc. But I think that its terribly obvious when someone does that - they don't make any real friends, they disappear when they have found someone and reappear if it doesn't work out.

But that's quite different from enjoying dancing and being optimistic that you might meet someone at dancing - for a start then you know you have at least one interest in common and something you can enjoy together!

[New_to_London]

Apologies if I offended, the only reason I got this impression was that you stressed about talking to women. If your only interest is social interaction, why can you not socially interact with other men?We all have different personal circumstances. In my case, I meet plenty of men on a daily basis--well educated men, with specialised interests that are similar to mine. Most of my friends are men. I therefore have little incentive to socially meet other men, where it is likely there will be few shared interests (other than Ceroc dancing).

For this reason, and because time is always limited, I would rather focus my attention on socialising with women, rather than men. Besides, it is the women--and not men--that I dance with!

Is there something wrong with making a conscious effort to focus my attention on women, rather than men?



Point taken, you're probably right. But even if I was interested in a guy at a dance, I'd rather he waited till the end of the evening before he tried chatting to me. In fact, if I am interested in a guy at a dance, I always make a point of finding him at the end of the evening to say thank you for the dance, always a good to start a conversation.While this does happen, sometimes. And, it is quite nice when a conversation develops in this way, and you have a chance to swap contact information for further conversation, it really is quite rare when that happens.

The majority of women seem to leave the venue before the evening ends. And, even if a particular woman of interest is there, a certain amount of “jockeying” for attention often occurs. I don’t like to interrupt a conversation that is already taking place--and I get annoyed when I am in a deep conversation and some other guy barges in on it, clearly also trying to strike up a conversation with the lady. But, that is the environment we have.

For this reason, I continue to believe that the best time to strike up a conversation is *immediately* after a few dances. Hence, this thread. Sometimes, the circumstances permit this to happen quite naturally. But, usually, a number of factors make this difficult:

1. Noise
2. Crowdedness
3. The standard protocol (expectation) of ending a dance and parting ways on the dance floor

With regard to this last element, an attempt to initiate a conversation can certainly create the impression that I am trying to “hit on” the woman. That is unfortunate, because it then forces her to make a judgement at that point as to whether such “advances” are welcome. As I indicated before, I think it is a cultural thing--a subtle element in the English tendency to not be chatty with strangers. In New Zealand, for example, it was customary to accompany the lady back to her chair.

So, I continue to be open to suggestions. :-)

[El Salsero Gringo]

What isn't nice is someone going exclusively for that reason, trying to chat people up, not being interested in making friends with people unless they are a potential partner etc. But I think that its terribly obvious when someone does that - they don't make any real friends, they disappear when they have found someone and reappear if it doesn't work out.Why is that not nice?

[Andreas]

Why is that not nice?

I wonder, too. Sure, it can become a pain in the butt but you can avoid these people. If you lookk around you will find that potentially 80% of all people that start dancing do it to find a social environment where they can find the partner of their dreams. At the end of the day, there is no other activity wheere you can spend such a long time and so much time on close proximity of the other sex - at least none that I'd be aware of.


:flower:

[El Salsero Gringo]

I wonder, too. Sure, it can become a pain in the butt but you can avoid these people. If you lookk around you will find that potentially 80% of all people that start dancing do it to find a social environment where they can find the partner of their dreams. At the end of the day, there is no other activity wheere you can spend such a long time and so much time on close proximity of the other sex - at least none that I'd be aware of.


:flower:... and a few of them might decide that the dancing is more fun than the picking-up-of-partners, stick at it, and become quite good!

[Andreas]

... and a few of them might decide that the dancing is more fun than the picking-up-of-partners, stick at it, and become quite good!


:yeah:

[Lynn]

Why is that not nice?Its not nice when they are friendly, warm and pleasant to someone - until the point when they realise the person isn't interested in a relationship, then they don't bother to speak to them, possibly even ignoring them to 'move on' to the next person. They don't really want to get to know anyone in the social circle, unless they can, by being friendly, use someone to get close to someone they are interested in. Fortunately that sort of behaviour can be easy to spot, but when it isn't it can leave a whole group of friends feeling used and betrayed when they are 'discarded' when the individual gets what they want. Sorry, but I don't think that's acceptable behaviour.

But that's not the same as going along hoping to meet a partner, enjoying a new hobby and making new friends along the way! :clap:

[El Salsero Gringo]

Its not nice when they are friendly, warm and pleasant to someone - until the point when they realise the person isn't interested in a relationship, then they don't bother to speak to them, possibly even ignoring them to 'move on' to the next person. They don't really want to get to know anyone in the social circle, unless they can, by being friendly, use someone to get close to someone they are interested in. Fortunately that sort of behaviour can be easy to spot, but when it isn't it can leave a whole group of friends feeling used and betrayed when they are 'discarded' when the individual gets what they want. Sorry, but I don't think that's acceptable behaviour.I've no doubt that someone whose behaviour you interpret in that fashion would see how they interact with people entirely differently, and much less negatively. If people what to be amicable with me for 10 minutes, an hour, or ten years, that's fine by me. I'd rather that than rudeness, even if it's only because they want an introduction to one of my friends.

[Lynn]

If people what to be amicable with me for 10 minutes, an hour, or ten years, that's fine by me. I'd rather that than rudeness, even if it's only because they want an introduction to one of my friends.That's fine if you can tell that the person is only using you to get to someone else, its when someone doesn't realise that, people can get hurt. Fortunately it doesn't happen too often!

[LMC]

It's no good, I can't take it any more, I have to be argumentative in this thread now too...

I've been dancing 3 months now. In my experience, as I've got to know people at my regular venues, friendships have developed from smiles and hellos, to actually getting around to exchanging names, to having a bit of a chat when two of us happen to be sat out, to exchanging contact details/meeting up for coffee, etc etc etc.

We are all there because our main interest is in dancing. I will have *nothing* else in common with some of the people in the room. I have got to know some of the women from the forum and at my regular venues who I would now count as friends - we meet up off the dance floor, and, as ZW has said *that* is the time to chat. Some of them can lead, so we dance together too.

Because we dance mainly with members of the opposite sex, those of the same sex that we have nothing in common with (possibly 'yet') probably just don't "register" beyond maybe a smile and 'hello' if you recognise each other.

So inevitably, this bit from me is going to be about men: there are some guys (tiny minority) that I avoid dancing with now because they won't stop b****y talking - and whilst I'm happy to dance with them, I don't want to discuss my day in the office, or my personal life, thank you very much. Just dance. Yes, it's personal. We've talked enough for me to know that I have no interest in them personally, just general benevolent indifference. Thanks for the dance/s. Have a nice life. End of. There are other guys who I do enjoy talking to from "yes, I would love a second dance" (most guys) to "let's go grab a drink, cool off and have a 10 minute chat before we get back to the floor" (maybe 50% of guys) to "hmmmmm, wonder what they are like off the dance floor :wink: " (teensy weensy minority of guys and that's the bit I'm really crap at :rofl: ).

NtL, I think you are a) not interested in making friends with men and b) too impatient. Don't "write off" the men, just because you know enough of them. I really value advice from women on who is nice to dance with, or just the 'warm fuzzy' of a hello, a smile and maybe a 3.5 minute chat about shoes while we both happen to be sat out. OK, so you may not want to discuss shoes with the men.

It takes time to get to know people well enough for them to be willing to 'sacrifice' their next dance to talk to you or to socialise with them off the dance floor. I agree with TiggsTours: you come across as "looking to pull ASAP". Whether that is a valid opinion or not is not the point - that's the way it comes across, and obviously not only to me.

[Lory]

to "hmmmmm, wonder what they are like off the dance floor :wink: " (teensy weensy minority of guys and that's the bit I'm really crap at :rofl: ).


:really: What are you telling us here NK? You're really crap at the other? :whistle: :D

Sorry, couldn't resist :flower: :hug:

[LMC]

:really: What are you telling us here NK? You're really crap at the other? :whistle: :D
Well, that's not for me to say :whistle:

But I'm certainly crap at making it clear that there may be potential for me to be interested in discovering someone's opinion on that... :blush:

Slaps self for not checking wording more carefully... I wouldn't have been able to resist either :hug:

[MartinHarper]

Is there something wrong with making a conscious effort to focus my attention on women, rather than men?

Modern Jive is a fairly abysmal way for men to meet men, just because of the culture and the way things are set up. It is a little easier for women to meet women. I don't think there's anything wrong in guys choosing to go with the flow on that one.


some men are pretty good at reading body language
Hah! Where! Show me one, pleeeeeease!

If your body language is as misandrist as your written language, I think there may be a self-fulfilling prophecy going on here...

[Kev F]

:really: What are you telling us here NK? You're really crap at the other? :whistle: :D

Sorry, couldn't resist :flower: :hug:

Maybe NK may be bl**dy brilliant at the other! :devil:

I think she will be in much demand after that quote. :worthy:

More dances for me please NK :D :flower:

[LMC]

Modern Jive is a fairly abysmal way for men to meet men, just because of the culture and the way things are set up. It is a little easier for women to meet women. I don't think there's anything wrong in guys choosing to go with the flow on that one.
I agree. And 'going with the flow' is how women meet women usually - just get chatting :nice:

In fact, 'going with the flow' would probably be the best way for men to meet women and women to meet men as well :whistle:

Kev, you can have as many dances as you like because you're better than me :grin: :innocent:

[Lynn]

On the subject of 'chatting' - aside from as NK said - some conversations about shoes with the girls (which is almost as good as dancing!) - I'm not sure that an evening's dancing is really the place to talk much. (Anyone who has met me is now thinking 'not talk much'? Lynn? :rofl: ) But going somewhere after the dancing is totally different, or arranging to meet up to do something social with other dancers - that's when you have the opportunity to chat.

[spindr]

One might suggest that if there were a little more chatting on occasion there might be fewer people on the singleton's sofa -- and perhaps less posts from ladies bemoaning the fact that they don't have a partner to compete with, or to attend weekend events with.

A little tolerance all round might go a long way.

SpinDr.

[Lynn]

One might suggest that if there were a little more chatting on occasion there might be fewer people on the singleton's sofa -- and perhaps less posts from ladies bemoaning the fact that they don't have a partner to compete with, or to attend weekend events with. Think it might take a bit more than 10 mins chat during an evening for most!

I think we are again hitting the 'forum not representative of all dancers' thing. People are on here mostly because they love dancing. They clearly also love communicating and are open to entering into discussions with people they haven't even met (ie on here). They just don't want to do both at once. They go dancing to go dancing. Say it was a sport and you were playing tennis with someone - you wouldn't want to spend most of your time standing at the side talking - you would want to play, then talk.

Others might go dancing primarily for the social aspect and might be quite happy to sit most of the evening and talk, with maybe only one or two dances. Which is fine. I just don't think they are the sort who post on this forum.

[LMC]

Think it might take a bit more than 10 mins chat during an evening for most!

I think we are again hitting the 'forum not representative of all dancers' thing. People are on here mostly because they love dancing. They clearly also love communicating and are open to entering into discussions with people they haven't even met (ie on here). They just don't want to do both at once. They go dancing to go dancing. Say it was a sport and you were playing tennis with someone - you wouldn't want to spend most of your time standing at the side talking - you would want to play, then talk.

Others might go dancing primarily for the social aspect and might be quite happy to sit most of the evening and talk, with maybe only one or two dances. Which is fine. I just don't think they are the sort who post on this forum.
:yeah:

Because the main aim of the evening is dancing, it might take several weeks to get to the level of interaction which would only take a couple of hours if you were sat in a pub *just* chatting. That's not necessarily a bad thing IMO - if you get 'rejected' by someone who doesn't want any more from you than a dance, at least you've still had a good night :grin:

[Lory]

I think we are again hitting the 'forum not representative of all dancers' thing. People are on here mostly because they love dancing.

~snip~

Others might go dancing primarily for the social aspect and might be quite happy to sit most of the evening and talk, with maybe only one or two dances.
:yeah:

I went to a dance a while back and they had a demonstration, so I sat on the nearest random table to watch.

Whilst there, I got chatting to a lovely friendly lady who just happened to be sitting next to me :) she said she'd noticed me dancing earlier and was amazed that I just don't stop... :na:

After that, 'I' kept noticing 'her' still sitting down :( so I went over and asked if she was OK?

She said (in genuine voice) that she was fine ;) and always very happy to have just 3 or 4 dances a night :nice: as she got just as much pleasure from watching and chatting on the side lines! :what: :nice:

People like that, actually do excist :eek: :D

[TiggsTours]

For this reason, I continue to believe that the best time to strike up a conversation is *immediately* after a few dances

If you look back through this thread, I think you will see that 100% of the women who have responded disagree with this, but you can continue to think that if you like.



In New Zealand, for example, it was customary to accompany the lady back to her chair.

Again, I think that 100% of the women who have responded have mentioned that they prefer to stay up, dancing, or else they'll be fighting all the other women at the side to get back on the floor.

We're just giving you the feedback you asked for, but if you like, continue to do things your way.

[New_to_London]

If you look back through this thread, I think you will see that 100% of the women who have responded disagree with this, but you can continue to think that if you like.
....
We're just giving you the feedback you asked for, but if you like, continue to do things your way.
I really appreciate the feedback I am getting on this forum--it certainly helps in getting a better understanding of what happens on the dance floor. You are correct in observing that the vast majority of women posting to this thread seem to view chatting immediately after a dance as undesirable. Personally, I found this result quite surprising--I wasn’t expecting that it would generate some negative sentiments.

However, disagreement is to be expected--in fact, it is perfectly normal and healthy on a forum such as this. The most revealing truths tend to come from disagreement--without it, the process of acquiring knowledge would come to a screeching halt.

I would never suggest chatting with someone who has no desire to chat--or worse, would be completely put off by chatting. And, on the dance floor, some women do indeed give off rather negative body language, suggesting they have no desire for further interaction. Other women, however, are quite different.

I have experienced many times the phenomenon where a track has come to an end, our dance movements have halted, and I hear the routine expression, “thank you for the dance,” suggesting the dance is over. Yet, when I suggest a continuation of the dance, the woman’s eyes light up, and she enthusiastically accepts the invitation. This suggests to me that protocol and convention is the main issue involved.

Migrating from a few dances to some post-dance chatting is a more cumbersome process. I do not accept the implied proposition that 100% of women would be uninterested in chatting immediately after a dance--the evidence from the dance floor suggests otherwise. But, a collusion of factors (e.g., noise, crowdedness, convention/protocol) makes this quite difficult.

It is, of course, far easier to follow the path of least resistance. And, indeed some posts to this thread would suggest a passive--wait and see--don’t buck the system--type approach. The problem is that such approach is not very effective. Just as dance requires knowledge, practice, and focus, so do other aspects of the social interaction. Without persistent determination, one will never advance in one’s life skills.

A few posts to this thread would portray the very desire to be able to chat more effectively as a sign of inferiority, almost suggesting a negative moral valuation. Being new to London, I’m not familiar with the colloquial expression “pull”, and I have no idea whether it might be applicable in my case--but I’m assuming it carries a negative connotation. Like most men at Ceroc venues, I am certainly keen on socialising with women. Is there something wrong with that?

Anyway, I continue to be open to more feedback, but I am especially interested in suggestions for overcoming the difficulties with chatting immediately after a dance. :-)

[LMC]

Anyway, I continue to be open to more feedback, but I am especially interested in suggestions for overcoming the difficulties with chatting immediately after a dance. :-)
Pick someone who fancies you.

[TiggsTours]

Pick someone who fancies you.

:rofl: :rofl: :yeah:

[MartinHarper]

A few posts to this thread would portray the very desire to be able to chat more effectively as a sign of inferiority, almost suggesting a negative moral valuation.

Over the last couple of years, I have been struck by a simple truth: that people are more important than computers. Twenty years late, some would say, but better late than never. Equally, people are more important than dances. It is good that many dancers realise this.

[stewart38]

Point taken, you're probably right. But even if I was interested in a guy at a dance, I'd rather he waited till the end of the evening before he tried chatting to me. In fact, if I am interested in a guy at a dance, I always make a point of finding him at the end of the evening to say thank you for the dance, always a good to start a conversation.





There is no 'correct formula' for any of this. IF I was 'interested' in a girl I would chat to her after the dance/s and then probably only if i seen her come a number of times and/or danced many times (thats a local venue)

[stewart38]

I really appreciate the feedback I am getting on this forum--it certainly helps in getting a better understanding of what happens on the dance floor. You are correct in observing that the vast majority of women posting to this thread seem to view chatting immediately after a dance as undesirable. Personally, I found this result quite surprising--I wasn’t expecting that it would generate some negative sentiments.

However, disagreement is to be expected--in fact, it is perfectly normal and healthy on a forum such as this. The most revealing truths tend to come from disagreement--without it, the process of acquiring knowledge would come to a screeching halt.

I would never suggest chatting with someone who has no desire to chat--or worse, would be completely put off by chatting. And, on the dance floor, some women do indeed give off rather negative body language, suggesting they have no desire for further interaction. Other women, however, are quite different.

I have experienced many times the phenomenon where a track has come to an end, our dance movements have halted, and I hear the routine expression, “thank you for the dance,” suggesting the dance is over. Yet, when I suggest a continuation of the dance, the woman’s eyes light up, and she enthusiastically accepts the invitation. This suggests to me that protocol and convention is the main issue involved.

Migrating from a few dances to some post-dance chatting is a more cumbersome process. I do not accept the implied proposition that 100% of women would be uninterested in chatting immediately after a dance--the evidence from the dance floor suggests otherwise. But, a collusion of factors (e.g., noise, crowdedness, convention/protocol) makes this quite difficult.

It is, of course, far easier to follow the path of least resistance. And, indeed some posts to this thread would suggest a passive--wait and see--don’t buck the system--type approach. The problem is that such approach is not very effective. Just as dance requires knowledge, practice, and focus, so do other aspects of the social interaction. Without persistent determination, one will never advance in one’s life skills.

A few posts to this thread would portray the very desire to be able to chat more effectively as a sign of inferiority, almost suggesting a negative moral valuation. Being new to London, I’m not familiar with the colloquial expression “pull”, and I have no idea whether it might be applicable in my case--but I’m assuming it carries a negative connotation. Like most men at Ceroc venues, I am certainly keen on socialising with women. Is there something wrong with that?

Anyway, I continue to be open to more feedback, but I am especially interested in suggestions for overcoming the difficulties with chatting immediately after a dance. :-)


Maybe your trying too hard

If you go to the same venue your going to get to know people ? I chat sometimes when i dance but only to people i know and sometimes we have a chat of floor and dont finish the dance.99% of time its not to 'pull'.

If you in a setting like a weekender a know a lot less about the person and assuming you want to 'pull' that can be harder but surely one can read the signals ?? ie

Dance 3 times in main room want to come dance some more in blues room ? (flutter you eyes :eek: )

a) yes love to b) no thanks

if a) dance 3 times in blue room

then ask do you want a drink :blush:

a) yes love to
b) no thanks i have one but happy to chat
c) sod of creep etc

Arent signals fairly easy ??

I dont think id ever dance with someone new and then after 2/3 dances expect her to just sit down and chat with me but again if her toungue was down my throat its giving of a signal ?

[LMC]

< snips a LOT of stuff which seems a bit blindingly obvious, including some written by me, I'm blonde, what's your excuse? >

:what:

:rolleyes:

or is it just me???

Yes, it's good to talk
Maybe we should all stop being selfish gits and be caring - dance less, chat more
It takes time to build any kind of relationship (friendship or more)
Some people will want to talk, some people won't; some people will want to talk to YOU, some people won't - get over it

[spindr]

I am *so* going to pay for this post -- I can feel the negative rep already :)

I think there's an easy solution if you'd like to chat to one of the lady dancers -- chat with them *before* you dance! Obviously, if they're sitting down, then they aren't that bothered about dancing and will be happy to indulge in some light-hearted badinage -- and if they aren't, then you don't have to *waste* a dance on them, you can choose someone who is happy to converse instead.

May try this myself :)
SpinDr.

[LMC]

I am *so* going to pay for this post -- I can feel the negative rep already :)

I think there's an easy solution if you'd like to chat to one of the lady dancers -- chat with them *before* you dance! Obviously, if they're sitting down, then they aren't that bothered about dancing and will be happy to indulge in some light-hearted badinage -- and if they aren't, then you don't have to *waste* a dance on them, you can choose someone who is happy to converse instead.

May try this myself :)
SpinDr.
We don't want solutions.

We want endless discussion, Weltschmertz and navel-gazing.

I don't see the big problem here - let us sit on your laps and pull our hair - sorted :devil:

[ducasi]

I am *so* going to pay for this post -- I can feel the negative rep already :) If you get negative rep for talking sense, then bring it on!

I think there's an easy solution if you'd like to chat to one of the lady dancers -- chat with them *before* you dance! Obviously, if they're sitting down, then they aren't that bothered about dancing and will be happy to indulge in some light-hearted badinage -- and if they aren't, then you don't have to *waste* a dance on them, you can choose someone who is happy to converse instead. :yeah:
I've quite often found myself (not deliberately) chatting with girls while waiting with them for the next dance.

If you want to perfect this technique, you could try something along the lines of... "I really don't like this song, but would you like the next dance?"

Unfortunately, I don't know the universally understood body language which can convey this...

(Is it just me, or does NTL seem a bit inconsistent in sometimes wanting to talk, but other times not wanting to talk? :shrug: )

[stewart38]

We don't want solutions.

We want endless discussion, Weltschmertz and navel-gazing.

I don't see the big problem here - let us sit on your laps and pull our hair - sorted :devil:


Jump on their car as they leave the venue and wave a piece of paper at them with you number on it and a message 'do you want to talk now'

They will know you now have serious intentions

a) they drive of at 70mph and call the police as they go and drop you of at first round about. You hit the floor at 70mph hour (El gringo will prob say its 62mph given the direction etc spin etc) It would however be a 'signal' for me there not interested.

b) They say sure come inside my car its cold out there

Given the new government directives i do not suggest you do this but its just an idea :yeah:

[El Salsero Gringo]

Is it just me, or does NTL seem a bit inconsistent in sometimes wanting to talk, but other times not wanting to talk?Yeah, but like the blonde says, we don't want consistency - we want "endless discussion, Weltschmertz and navel-gazing." Especially Weltschmertz. Whatever that is.

ps. I've just 'got' your signature. Love it!

[spindr]

Especially Weltschmertz.
Schadenfreude surely!

[spindr]

We don't want solutions.
Yes, but think how many dull, witless, boorish dances you could avoid if you talked to them first :)

[LMC]

Weltschmertz - general anxiety about the state of the world (lit: world hurt)
Schadenfreude - taking pleasure in other people's misfortunes (lit: sadness joy)

Take your pick... :devil:


Yes, but think how many dull, witless, boorish dances you could avoid if you talked to them first :)

... and I would have missed a whole number of actually rather good dances with a couple of introverts who are still lovely leads :clap:

I think we're all sometimes a bit risk-averse - I know I am... :blush: It's finding the point of "That's it......." (be afraid.... be very afraid :devil: )

[ducasi]

... Especially Weltschmertz. Whatever that is. It's a cool word (just googled it.) I think the first discussion on Weltschmertz needs to be "just how the heck do you pronounce it?!?!" :what:

ps. I've just 'got' your signature. Love it! Was wondering how many people would... It was crying out to be done, though it looks like I'm already behind the times!

[Baruch]

Schadenfreude surely!
Wieviele schreiben Sie auf Deutsch?

[JoC]

"I really don't like this song, but would you like the next dance?"OK, but bye for now, I'm going to find somebody who does like this song. Toodle-oo!! :innocent:

[ducasi]

OK, but bye for now, I'm going to find somebody who does like this song. Toodle-oo!! :innocent:
:tears:

It's funny, almost every time I state openly that I'm not going to dance to a track as I don't like it, someone always comes up and asks me! :really:

OK, I have a new variation on my technique...

"I know you don't really like this song, but ..." :nice:

[JoC]

OK, I have a new variation on my technique...

"I know you don't really like this song, but ..." :nice:'At-a-boy, much better!!! You must be devious! (Trouble is they might not suggest sitting it out, and instead you might have an excruciating dance, and still not get to chat...)

[ducasi]

'At-a-boy, much better!!! You must be devious! (Trouble is they might not suggest sitting it out, and instead you might have an excruciating dance, and still not get to chat...) :devil:
You have to know the person well enough to get away with it, but it worked well enough last time I tried it. :whistle:

Exact line might have been something like this: "I know you don't like this kind of song either, but we can chat while we're waiting for the next one. :nice:" Does that cover all my bases? :innocent:

And if I'm wrong, I'll still (hopefully) get a pleasant dance – if I knew I'd get an excruciating dance, I probably wouldn't be asking them, no matter what the music is.

Just realised there's one hole in my cunning plan... What if the next song is one I don't like!?! :what:

[bigdjiver]

...I think there's an easy solution if you'd like to chat to one of the lady dancers -- chat with them *before* you dance! ...Maybe not. I was feeling guilty about my lack of social interaction and tried this for a few weeks. I have now given up on it. Samples: "My Mother has got cancer." :tears: "My ex-husband has taken away my children, and I don't know where they are." :tears: Those ruined the dances, and damaged the evening. OTOH I asked a very sexy lady why she had not been for a long while. "I was doing a class in Swedish Massage." :drool: I had to switch my brain off, and that dance had no chance at all.

[TiggsTours]

If you get negative rep for talking sense, then bring it on!
:yeah:
I've quite often found myself (not deliberately) chatting with girls while waiting with them for the next dance.

If you want to perfect this technique, you could try something along the lines of... "I really don't like this song, but would you like the next dance?"

Unfortunately, I don't know the universally understood body language which can convey this...

(Is it just me, or does NTL seem a bit inconsistent in sometimes wanting to talk, but other times not wanting to talk? :shrug: )

Like that technique, yeah, I'd fall for that.

[LMC]

Like that technique, yeah, I'd fall for that.
I would too, especially if they were yummy :drool: (shallow? me? :rofl: )

[ducasi]

Like that technique, yeah, I'd fall for that.
I would too, especially if they were yummy :drool: (shallow? me? :rofl: ) Looks like I'm onto something here! :devil: :wink: :waycool:

[LMC]

But I liked this idea too.... :whistle:


OK, but bye for now, I'm going to find somebody who does like this song. Toodle-oo!! :innocent:

[TiggsTours]

But I liked this idea too.... :whistle:
If they're not yummy! :rofl:

[LMC]

If they're not yummy! :rofl:
:yeah: :D :blush:

But we all know that in all seriousness, if it's a track we really like, or there's someone else we really want to dance with then the 'chatter' might just have to wait, no matter how yummy they are! (They obviously have no taste if they hate the track that we love... :whistle: )

It's not personal. We just love dancing :nice:

If we don't at least *try* to come back and find you later for a dance (or a chat) then *that's* personal :rofl:

[ducasi]

If they're not yummy! :rofl: I'll have to monitor my success rate to find out how yummy I am, but based on JoC's response... :tears:

(Though based on other real-life responses... :waycool: :wink: )

[New_to_London]

I think there's an easy solution if you'd like to chat to one of the lady dancers -- chat with them *before* you dance! SpinDr.

Maybe not. I was feeling guilty about my lack of social interaction and tried this for a few weeks. I have now given up on it. ...
I too have tried the approach of chatting before a dance. In my case, the biggest problem I run into is trying to figure out something to chat about--finding a “conversation starter.” This can be quite difficult when you are looking at someone you have never met before or danced with. And, maintaining a conversation becomes harder when you struggling to hear each other over the background noise.

Thus far, I have found the “chatting before a dance” approach to only work in two situations:

1. When I already know the person, have danced with her before, etc.

2. If they are a complete beginner, and are reluctant to dance, that creates the opportunity to chat before the dance to re-assure them that it will not be a painful experience; and it also creates further conversational opportunity after the dance.

In any case, I find it much much easier to request a dance than to initiate a conversation, with a complete stranger. From the dance, it is possible to get a sense for whether your partner might be open to a conversation. And, the actual dance may provide some material for initiating a conversation, such as:

- you dance well; what venues do you go to?
- how long have you been dancing?
- may I offer a suggestion?
- it’s so crowded here!
- would you like to try a few dips?

Gosh, this all sounds so corny!! How do women put up with hearing the same lines, over and over again? :-)

[El Salsero Gringo]

- you dance well; what venues do you go to?
- how long have you been dancing?
- may I offer a suggestion?
- it’s so crowded here!
- would you like to try a few dips?
Perhaps this isn't what you meant, but some of those are rather suggestive, aren't they?

-You dance well; what venues do you go to (so I can come and bother you there too...)
-May I offer a suggestion? (I'm not even going to guess what's about to follow that one.)
-It's so crowded here! (Let's go somewhere a little more private...)
-Would you like to try a few dips (of my lolly?)

On the other hand, perhaps it's just my filthy mind playing up again.

[TiggsTours]

Perhaps this isn't what you meant, but some of those are rather suggestive, aren't they?

-You dance well; what venues do you go to (so I can come and bother you there too...)
-May I offer a suggestion? (I'm not even going to guess what's about to follow that one.)
-It's so crowded here! (Let's go somewhere a little more private...)
-Would you like to try a few dips (of my lolly?)

On the other hand, perhaps it's just my filthy mind playing up again.
:eek: :blush:
I'm shocked! I feel that my previously innocent mind has been corrupted by this filthy talk!
:wink:

[Clive Long]

<< snip >>
How do women put up with hearing the same lines, over and over again? :-)
They learn how to yawn with their mouths closed I believe.

Clive

[JoC]

Perhaps this isn't what you meant, but some of those are rather suggestive, aren't they?

-You dance well; what venues do you go to (so I can come and bother you there too...)
-May I offer a suggestion? (I'm not even going to guess what's about to follow that one.)
-It's so crowded here! (Let's go somewhere a little more private...)
-Would you like to try a few dips (of my lolly?)

On the other hand, perhaps it's just my filthy mind playing up again.
Suddenly I'm hearing all those lines in the voice of Sid James...

[WittyBird]

They learn how to yawn with their mouths closed I believe.

Clive

I thought that was a closely guarded secret :blush:

[New_to_London]

We don't want solutions.

We want endless discussion, Weltschmertz and navel-gazing.
Analogies are always fun! It is a well-known complaint of women that men are reluctant to chat after--how shall I say it--spending intimate time together. Their man, who may have been quite chatty beforehand, is now silent. It is interesting how--in dance--the reverse seems to be the case, if this thread is any indicator. :-) Maybe it has something to do with horizontal versus vertical orientation. :-)

It seems that women are only interested in one thing. :-)

[spindr]

It seems that women are only interested in one thing. :-)
Yep, they're only interested in using and abusing our bodies...
...at least on the dance floor.

I'm not a person, I'm just a dance object to them :(

[LMC]

Yep, they're only interested in using and abusing our bodies...
< gratuitous snip >

I'm not a person, I'm just a < gratuitous snip > object to them :(

Welcome to our world :rolleyes: :wink:

What you need to do is go forth and buy at least three magazines per week which will tell you what we are thinking and why, spend at least two lunchtimes a week in Waterstones agonising over self-help books and spend at least six hours a week (these may be split into several sessions) talking to your friends about our motivations.

[Icey]

I'm not a person, I'm just a dance object to them :(

Or a knee to sit on

[TiggsTours]

Yep, they're only interested in using and abusing our bodies...
...at least on the dance floor.

I'm not a person, I'm just a dance object to them :(
Sorry, was that ever a secret?

[Icey]

Yep, they're only interested in using and abusing our bodies...
...at least on the dance floor.

I'm not a person, I'm just a dance object to them :(

Bl**dy hell - complaints complaints.

[Donna]

It seems that women are only interested in one thing. :-)

:eek:

[Purple Sparkler]

Yep, they're only interested in using and abusing our bodies...
...at least on the dance floor.

I'm not a person, I'm just a dance object to them

And you're COMPLAINING about being a dance object? Doesn't that mean you're never short of dances, because we're all keen to play with our dance toy?

[TiggsTours]

And you're COMPLAINING about being a dance object? Doesn't that mean you're never short of dances, because we're all keen to play with our dance toy?
Men complaining about women using and abusing their bodies, it could only happen in the dancing world! :rolleyes:

[Dreadful Scathe]

Men complaining about women using and abusing their bodies, it could only happen in the dancing world! :rolleyes:
SpinDr is just the complaining type - Im not complaining :)

[spindr]

SpinDr is just the complaining type - Im not complaining :)
Not complaining -- just what's the word -- it's like silvery - no, it's like tinny - no. Ah, I remember, it's irony :)

SpinDr.

[New_to_London]

Or a knee to sit on
Ah...the “Lasso Knee Sit Layback”--one of my favourite moves!

[JoC]

I took time for a little chatting last night and I'm glad I did. You can learn amazing and inspiring things from some people.

(And I had a night of dancing bliss too :grin:, great set Tiggerbabe!)

[Dreadful Scathe]

I took time for a little chatting last night and I'm glad I did. You can learn amazing and inspiring things from some people.

(And I had a night of dancing bliss too :grin:, great set Tiggerbabe!)
And I danced with you too, albeit rubbish - but Im on a "much worse before i get better" trip I hope.

[JoC]

And I danced with you too, albeit rubbish - but Im on a "much worse before i get better" trip I hope.Well I enjoyed it! :tears: (thanks for coming back to ask me later by the way :flower:, though I am getting quite resilient these days!)

[Donna]

Ah...the “Lasso Knee Sit Layback”--one of my favourite moves!

Wow, haven't done that one for a long time.

[dee]

If a guy asks for a second dance I take it as a compliment and acknowledgement that he enjoyed the first one. Doesn't matter if its breaking the 'routine'. No tips for initiating conversation expect to agree that its much easier at a weekender.

Not sure that dragging a woman off the floor would necessarily guarantee you a conversation! :rofl:

:yeah: I totally agree with you :flower:

[New_to_London]

I’m finding that leading “double trouble” seems to result in chatting after a dance. This is a good thing, although I think it is mainly because of the novelty. If everyone starts doing it, then it might not be such a conversation starter. :-)

What other dance-related things (moves, styles, etc.) have people found that tend to initiate conversations?

[Baruch]

What other dance-related things (moves, styles, etc.) have people found that tend to initiate conversations?
Various things can initiate comments, which can lead to conversation if you want, but I tend to save my conversations (lengthy ones, anyway) for when I'm resting or after the evening is over. Like many others here, I go along for the dance, not the conversation. There's plenty of time to talk when the dancing is finished.

[Lee]

I've kinda skimmed through this huge thread but got the idea.

Now you’ve been to Wessex House and joined the after class drinks and the Saturday parties (bar rise) can you now see where the opportunity lies to chat the all the lovely ladies?

On the subject of dancing two or three dances in a row with the same women, just ask them. If they like you or the dance they will say yes. It not just about the dancing, it’s about familiarity as well. Get your face known at a venue.

You’re an excellent dancer and any lady would be pleased to be asked for more than one dance in a row, so just ask them.

:cheers:

Lee