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Gus
19th-December-2002, 01:45 PM
The theme of what is appropriate or not on the social dancefloor has come up as a regular theme. Its interseting that for a dance where we put great store by 'dance ettiquette' that I bet no-one could give an all encompasing defintion. More worryingly, how do newcomers to Modern Jive find out what they should/should not be doing?

When I first started Gorgeous Gus I put together a quick guide one night for new dancers ... always with the intention of coming back to it to improve it. In the mean time a few dance organisations have approached me for permission to incorporate it in thier own material, to which of course I said yes.

The time hath come, though, to try to put together an improved guide. I don't want it to be reams long, but it should still cover the basics without sounding like a rule book.

Below I've posted the original guide. Please feel free to discuss, critisise, suggest improvements or additional points. If this goes well, then maybe a few more Ceroc and Jive organisations would use it for thier own and issue it to all members????


Quick Guide to Etiquette

Man Leads Although this may go against the reality of life, in Ceroc, it is the man who takes the decisions and leads the dance. Ladies, please allow your dance partner this one chance to take control. Deciding to do something else will not help the dance to flow.

Relaxed grip The dance is led by subtle nuances and a gentle grip, not by locking your partners hand in a vice like grip. Please, no thumbs.

Relax It is extremely difficult to lead a partner who is tense. Relax into the rhythm of the music and following and leading the moves become so much easier.

Listen to the Teacher Please avoid the tendency to race ahead during the class. The Teacher will help you to improve your style, smooth out problems and help you to remember the move. This is difficult to do if you're not watching and listening to what the teacher does.

Taxi Dancers Use them or lose them. Taxi dancers are there to give you opportunity to practice to your moves and to give a limited amount of personal coaching. The earlier you start taking advantage of this opportunity, the sooner your skills and confidence will grow.

Women can ask too Although Male led, ladies can also ask men to dance and not sit on the sidelines looking on hopefully.

Never say no It is etiquette that you never turn down an invitation to dance unless you really are too tired or you dislike the music being played. If you do decline, please try to meet up for a dance later.

A cat can dance with a King Whether you are a novice or a professional, you can ask anyone to dance. No one is too good. If you are a beginner don't be afraid of asking the teachers or advanced dancers for a dance. Everyone had to start somewhere.

If in doubt ..ask If you are having problems, ask someone to help. Teachers and taxi dancers are always there to help but many of the more experienced dancers are usually only too happy to help.

Clothing Wearing some is advisableÉ..but it is advisable to wear something which is loose fitting and light. Ceroc can be an extremely aerobic activity and so a change of top, a towel and deodorant are useful, if not essential

Lou
19th-December-2002, 02:09 PM
That's brilliant, Gus. I'd like to point it in the direction of a particular person in Bristol. :devil:
Would it be appropriate to add something along the lines of not doing drops/airsteps without asking one's partner if it's OK & not doing them on a crowded dancfloor?

Gus
19th-December-2002, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Lou

Would it be appropriate to add something along the lines of not doing drops/airsteps without asking one's partner if it's OK & not doing them on a crowded dancfloor?

As I said ... this was initialy for new members ... so I didn't want to draw their attention to the heavy stuff. Re Dops and airsteps, I'm looking for some consensus oprinion. Personaly I favour an outright ban on airsteps .... but there are other who would leave the decision to the individual dancer .... don't know what the answer is.

Your point re there needing to be some reference is spot on though, a bit of a gaping whole in the current version. Thanks.:grin:

PeterL
19th-December-2002, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Lou

Would it be appropriate to add something along the lines of not doing drops/airsteps without asking one's partner if it's OK & not doing them on a crowded dancfloor?

I have just recently started doing drops and was amazed at the responses I got. Every time I went to do a drop a lady that I hadn't asked before I asked them if it was OK. The replies I got were big smiles and gratitude some of them told me they had NEVER been asked before. I was amazed at this as I thought it was ettiquete to ask. Who knows they could have a bad back or just don't feel comfortable being dropped.

Along the lines of etiquette I would like to say that when advising a beginer on there dance i.e. your grip is to tight try and say something positive about there dance before the advise. I remember when I started a few ladies would give me advise but when they said something like you led well beforehand then it helped my confidence and dancing well is as much about confidence as it is about technique because if you are confident you are relaxed and that is half the battle.
I try to follow this myself and always stress the positive side of someones dance before pointing out any possible improvements.

For example "That was great you managed to follow everything the only thing is you might find it easier to spin if you take smaller steps back on the return"

Gus
19th-December-2002, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by PeterL
I have just recently started doing drops and was amazed at the responses I got. Every time I went to do a drop a lady that I hadn't asked before I asked them if it was OK. The replies I got were big smiles and gratitude some of them told me they had NEVER been asked before Fair comment. Its part of the standard Ceroc training to REMIND guys when showing a drop that they must ALWAYS ask before doing a drop. On our recent Gorgeous Gus Drops/Dips workshop we were very keen to drum this into our guys ... and it was part of the attached course notes.

Having said that at least half the guys doing drops a) have never been taught the moves properly, b) have no idea about ettiquette and safety:reallymad That was why we developed the Drops course ... not as a money maker, more as a safety course. Would be interesting to hear off anyone who did the course for their views before and after.

Graham
19th-December-2002, 02:41 PM
How about:

Drops and Jumps You may see couples performing "drops", "jumps", "lifts" or similar moves. These are complex moves which need special training from a qualified teacher. Men: please don't be tempted to try and copy them. Ladies: a man should never try to lead you into one of these moves without asking your permission, so if you are in any way uncomfortable please say so - lots of ladies don't do these moves, so don't feel embarrassed about refusing.

Graham
19th-December-2002, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Gus
Would be interesting to hear off anyone who did the course for their views before and after.
So probably you were preaching to the converted in my case - I already had very similar views to you on the safety/etiquette, although I'm not in favour of an outright ban (but I am in favour of "local bylaws" and individual bans/suspensions).

I was very impressed by your emphasis on safety on the course. I still need to practice a lot before I'll be trying it out on anyone new, so I haven't had any call to do the asking part.

Gadget
19th-December-2002, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by PeterL
Along the lines of etiquette I would like to say that when advising a beginner on there dance ~snip~
:D I'm sure one of my first threads was dedicated to imparting advice on the dance floor - the consensus seemed to be that it was generally "bad form" to offer advice on your partner's dancing (no matter how nicely phrased) and that
bad dances, as well as the good got a smile and 'thanks' - even if your shoulders had been torn from their sockets.

{not saying I agree - just that this seemed to be the more vocal opinions}

Gus: good notes - isn't there a flyer or something that new members get when they sign up? This would be ideal to print on the back.

The "Women can ask too..." I would possably re-word to encourage more women to ask.

I'm not sure if this is etiquette, but isn't it good form to let go of your partner after one song? Ask if they would like to continue into the next song, but don't just continue dancing.

Jayne
19th-December-2002, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Gadget
I'm not sure if this is etiquette, but isn't it good form to let go of your partner after one song? Ask if they would like to continue into the next song, but don't just continue dancing.

Good point - otherwise it's really awkward to escape....

(I felt really foolish when I started doing Tango in Edinburgh and thanked a guy for the dance after one record. Apparently the rule with Tango is three dances, but I hadn't been told.... :what: :sorry: )

Jayne
:nice:

TheTramp
21st-December-2002, 11:49 AM
I'm sure one of my first threads was dedicated to imparting advice on the dance floor - the consensus seemed to be that it was generally "bad form" to offer advice on your partner's dancing (no matter how nicely phrased) and that I didn't see the original thread, but I have to disagree with this. Gonna go find this thread now :D

I people don't offer advice, then how do you know if you're doing something wrong. And hence, where does the knowledge that you (a) need to improve, and (b) how to improve come from?

Usually, if I have something to say, I ask the person if they mind if I offer some advice. If they say 'no', then fair enough. Just don't think I'll be asking for another dance anytime soon. If they want the advice, then I'll tell them what I think - as tactfully as possible.

I've never had a problem with this approach, and only a couple of times has my offer of help been refused (once by a woman who snottily informed me that she'd been dancing 3 years, and didn't need any help - the fact that she was never asked to dance, and most of the men I knew at the venue would go to extreme lengths to avoid dancing with her didn't seem to worry her).

If I'm doing anything wrong, or someone thinks I could be doing something better, then I'm always keen to listen (although, I may not agree, I'll definitely think about it first).

Steve

Gadget
23rd-December-2002, 01:56 AM
Originally posted by TheTramp
If I'm doing anything wrong, or someone thinks I could be doing something better, then I'm always keen to listen (although, I may not agree, I'll definitely think about it first).
I agree; this was my argument, however it seems that beginners egos take less to bruse and criticism {no matter how slight or flowery} could prevent them from returning.

TheTramp
23rd-December-2002, 02:05 AM
Hmmm. I've never had any problem offering advice to beginners - although, since I've either been a taxi-dancer or a teacher for the last 3 years, maybe they expect it, or at least don't mind it.

Usually, the ones who seem to not want the advice, are the ones who've been dancing for several years, but are still crap. It is probably a waste of time offering it in those cases anyhow...

Steve

Ronde!
29th-December-2002, 06:48 AM
Hi,

In response to Jayne's post: As well as Ceroc, I also do Tango, Salsa & Merengue. Love that dancing. :) Yes, it's the "done thing" to do three dances with your partner in Tango (each dance is generally less than two minutes duration, so one dance is rather unsatisfactory in most cases).

In between dances, you *never* say "thank you"; you say "lovely" (unless you don't actually want to finish the set). "Thank you" marks the end of the dance; the gentleman then escorts the lady from the dance floor to their seat.

Also in Tango, you never actually ask your partner to dance; you make eye contact; (Tango has done wonders for my flirting, LoL). If eye contact is sustained, you walk towards each other; the man then escorts the lady onto the floor. But he only takes her into the "Embrace" when the music starts.

How does this translate to Ceroc? Well, I personally like the idea of escorting one's partner to and from the floor. Apart from that, I don't think there's too much to borrow...

Jayne
30th-December-2002, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Ronde!
Also in Tango, you never actually ask your partner to dance; you make eye contact; (Tango has done wonders for my flirting, LoL). If eye contact is sustained, you walk towards each other; the man then escorts the lady onto the floor. But he only takes her into the "Embrace" when the music starts.


So THAT'S where I've been going wrong! Thanks Ronde! :nice:

Jayne