Competitons - What Judges are looking for!

[Gus]

OK ... we've had the unwashed hordes coming out with their speculations as to what judges are looking for in dnace competition ... but the obvious has been missed ... what do the judges think?

I'm opening this thread for responses only by judges of the main events, i.e. Blackpool, Ceroc, Ceroc Scotland, Britroc and WSM. PLEASE share. I'm especially targetting Ceroc as they havce come in for no small degre of stick and it would be seemly that on the Ceroc(tm) Forum, Ceroc(tm) actualy expressed a view! (PS .... Andy (I wuz robbed) McGregor is BANNED from commenting on Ceroc judging on this thread)

[Jive Brummie]

I'm glad you've raised this thread Gus as I think people who compete need to know what's expected.

The reason I raised the other thread about do dancers win dance competitions was pretty much for this reason.

This year in Scotland, all the Scottish teachers have been asked to judge, (me included). Now until I am given any guidelines about what to look for, I'll be looking for things that'll impress me. A bit selfish I know....but until told otherwise :whistle:

I'm looking for good connection...as in one person leads and the other follows...no arguments. Presentation in terms of clothing pretty much takes a back burner for me and would only really come into play if a couple got through to later rounds and there was little to discriminate between finalists. Presentation in terms of looking like they're enjoying themselves however would be fairly high on my agenda.

Technicality of moves? Not sure on this one. I like to see people dancing rather than getting all het up about doing a gucci move. A beginners move done well will get my praise before a gucci move done mediocre. And if a couple struggle with beginners moves then I probably won't watch them too much.

Entry and exit into moves....It's all well and good doing some aerial or dip/drop but if getting into it and then getting out of it looks like a dogs dinner, i think the move has been wasted....Keep it flowing and smoooooth. If a move doesn't work or feel right...bin it.

Dance to the music rather than to a collection of beats.....listen to it and take advantage of all the highlights and low points of the track.....use tempo changes and do something different from the rest...if everyone else plays statues during a break then be the odd one out and do something else...this will get you noticed...well, by me anyway.

Complexity of moves...pretty much the same as technicality i guess. If you can do it and make it look good then great...if you can do it and make it look 'ok' then...hmmmmmm :whistle: Repetition of moves doesn't really bother me either. If you only have a finite amount of moves, like we all do, then think about what moves you'd rather save for a later round. Putting all your 'wow' moves in the first round might not be required to advance through to the later ones.

Try and adapt your style to suit the music. If it doesn't change at all, it kinda suggest to me that you're not listening to the music even if you are, and those people that can and do will rank higher.



Having said all this, this is the first year I've been asked to judge and it may possibly be the last :sick: . I am only giving opinions as to what impresses me about different couples and by no means speak on behalf of anybody else who may be judging this year. Oh yeah, and i'll probably be walking around the room watching rather than sitting down somewhere, ensuring that even if you're in a dark corner wearing black I'll still be able to see you! :whistle:

I really am stepping into the unkown with this and am now assuming i'll be judging the lucky dip rather than intermediate, advanced or open :rofl: :rofl:

J x x

[Andy McGregor]

(PS .... Andy (I wuz robbed) McGregor is BANNED from commenting on Ceroc judging on this thread)I don't think I've ever said that I should have done better than I have in a competition. But I have said that I think Ceroc have judged their competitions on factors unrelated to dancing skill and more to do with youth and beauty. Anyone else think the same?

[Bex]

I don't think I've ever said that I should have done better than I have in a competition. But I have said that I think Ceroc have judged their competitions on factors unrelated to dancing skill and more to do with youth and beauty. Anyone else think the same?

Having been one of the judges (as you know) on the competition and heat that you quite often refer to, I have to say you really do talk some rubbish at times Mr McGregor!! :mad:

[Yliander]

OK ... we've had the unwashed hordes coming out with their speculations as to what judges are looking for in dnace competition ... but the obvious has been missed ... what do the judges think?

I'm opening this thread for responses only by judges of the main events, i.e. Blackpool, Ceroc, Ceroc Scotland, Britroc and WSM. PLEASE share. I'm especially targetting Ceroc as they havce come in for no small degre of stick and it would be seemly that on the Ceroc(tm) Forum, Ceroc(tm) actualy expressed a view! (PS .... Andy (I wuz robbed) McGregor is BANNED from commenting on Ceroc judging on this thread) judges have to judge according to the judging criteria as set out in the rules and decided by the organisor of the competition.

So if you want to know what judges are looking for at x competition read the rules and competitor information fully and you will know what they will be looking for.

[Gus]

So if you want to know what judges are looking for at x competition read the rules and competitor information fully and you will know what they will be looking for.And in a parralell universe where truth pervades and the meek are protected so shall this be true ... HOWEVER, even a cursory glance at the last 4 or 5 majors would give evidence to the contrary (and some annecdotal comments made by a few ex-judges further prove the divergence :wink: :eek: ).

[Yliander]

And in a parralell universe where truth pervades and the meek are protected so shall this be true ... HOWEVER, even a cursory glance at the last 4 or 5 majors would give evidence to the contrary (and some annecdotal comments made by a few ex-judges further prove the divergence :wink: :eek: ). well if that is the case then the judges aren't doing the job they are supposed to be doing.

[El Salsero Gringo]

well if that is the case then the judges aren't doing the job they are supposed to be doing.Isn't this where we came in?

[Andy McGregor]

Having been one of the judges (as you know) on the competition and heat that you quite often refer to, I have to say you really do talk some rubbish at times Mr McGregor!! :mad:Do you know, I'd forgotten all about that :confused: In my defence, I never thought I should have done better, I thought we'd been knocked out because that's what happens in competitions. It was only when Pammy spoke with some of the judges from my DWAS heat and found that they'd voted for us that I became concerned. Wouldn't anybody? Mike Ellard has explained what was done with the scores and I'm quite happy to accept what he said :flower:

[Jive Brummie]

Just asking like....but are any other judges willing to comment or is it just me with my neck on the line?

J :clap:

[Gus]

Just asking like....but are any other judges willing to comment or is it just me with my neck on the line?YEAH ... come on guys. JUST FOR ONCE can Ceroc(tm) come out into the light and speak to the minions who would really like to hear what goes on. It would be GREAT to hear the official line from Lindaloo, Mike the Man, Dave Bradley or any of the great and good. This is NOT having a go but a real honest interest into what really counts. I firmly believe that if there was more openness about Competitions then more people would participate and less rumours and lies would be propogated.

[Andreas]

I have not judged any of the UK comps but have 'headed' a franchise comp in NZ. In that particular comp I have asked the judges to put emphasis on musicality and mark down if people move off beat.

We had the following judging criteria:

1) musicality
2) fun
3) style
4) technical difficulty
5) chemistry

(if I remember that correctly; no particular order)

Given the fact that the couples with decent difficulty but superior musicality (and chemistry) won over those with superior difficulty but inferior musicality (and chemistry), I think this did work. The audience certainly appeared to approve. We also put quite some emphasis on FUN. So going through the motions did not go down well :D

Technical difficulty was important but only after musicality, fun and chemistry because in the first place we wanted to reward people that had the ability to present an entertaining dance, rather than somebody who presented a "boring and serious something of high difficulty that people only ever want to see once".

:flower:

I think you could put up a comparison between cricket and chess. I have little doubt that there is a much higher level of technique involved in chess but it is not anywhere near as attractive to watch as cricket (says me, who gets bored out of his tree watching cricket :D ).

[lindyloo]

YEAH ... come on guys. JUST FOR ONCE can Ceroc(tm) come out into the light and speak to the minions who would really like to hear what goes on. It would be GREAT to hear the official line from Lindaloo, Mike the Man, Dave Bradley or any of the great and good. This is NOT having a go but a real honest interest into what really counts. I firmly believe that if there was more openness about Competitions then more people would participate and less rumours and lies would be propogated.


Sorry don't get on here very often these days, as now have full time office job...aaah! but if you go to http://www.cerocchamps.com/categories.htm#definitions
I wrote a whole section of what the judges HAVE to look for on the day.
And as I look after and brief all of the judges at some unearthly hour in the morning I make sure they have all read this and know what they are looking for.
Hope this helps x

[DavidB]

This year in Scotland, all the Scottish teachers have been asked to judge, (me included).

I'll be looking for things that'll impress me.
... connection
... Presentation
... Technicality of moves?
... Entry and exit into moves
... Dance to the music
... Complexity of moves
... adapting your style to suit the music
So how easy did you find it to look at all these different things for each couple in each heat?

[Scot]

YEAH ... come on guys. JUST FOR ONCE can Ceroc(tm) come out into the light and speak to the minions who would really like to hear what goes on. It would be GREAT to hear the official line from Lindaloo, Mike the Man, Dave Bradley or any of the great and good. This is NOT having a go but a real honest interest into what really counts. I firmly believe that if there was more openness about Competitions then more people would participate and less rumours and lies would be propogated.

If my memory is correct have you not judged Ceroc Comps before ;)

[TiggsTours]

I'm looking for good connection...as in one person leads and the other follows...no arguments.
Funny, for me I think good connection works both ways, so the lead had to connect with the follower too. For beginners, and even intermediate, I strongly agree with the one leader, one follower rule, as it is a fundamental part of dancing, but as you get more advanced, I believe that the leader should also be able to follow a followers sabotage, but the follower should also follow when the leader wants to claim back the lead, and relinquish immediately. I think true "good connection" takes a little bit of give and take, on both parts.

[Dancing Veela]

Sorry don't get on here very often these days, as now have full time office job...aaah! but if you go to http://www.cerocchamps.com/categories.htm#definitions
I wrote a whole section of what the judges HAVE to look for on the day.
And as I look after and brief all of the judges at some unearthly hour in the morning I make sure they have all read this and know what they are looking for.
Hope this helps x

Sorry Lindyloo (and sorry Gus I know you said Judges only!!!) - this actually doesn't tell me very much. You say points will be given for costumes - HOW many points? What percentage of points? And that goes for all the criteria. Extra points won't be given for drops? But drops make the dance look better or may bring you to the attention of the judges so you should put them in? If you have category like 'technical ability' - you need to describe what is covered by that (as the rest of us mere mortals may not know - even though it may be obvious to you).

Thanks James you're the only one who's actually telling us what you are looking for (but also showing us that scoring is really down to the individual judge if you can say that one category is more important for you than another)

DVx

[Gus]

If my memory is correct have you not judged Ceroc Comps before ;)No, I havent judged Ceroc LONDON Champs before ... but I have judged other competitions ... including the Ceroc Scotland ones ( :wink: ). ALSO ... unlike a number of the Ceroc judges, I've actually competed in fair number of differnt competitions and attended many more.

HEY ... I've got a great idea ... lets ask people to judge something THEY'VE NEVER ACTUALY DONE THEMSELVES!!! Cool! Think it will catch on? :whistle: :rolleyes:

To be fair I actualy thought that the judges did a pretty fair job at the Scottish Champs.

[azande]

HEY ... I've got a great idea ... lets ask people to judge something THEY'VE NEVER ACTUALY DONE THEMSELVES!!! Cool! Think it will catch on? :whistle: :rolleyes:
Well, have a look at Brady's reply here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=149510&postcount=32) to the requirements of the judging course he did! :devil:

[Gus]

Well, have a look at Brady's reply here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=149510&postcount=32) to the requirements of the judging course he did! :devil:Sorry ... not quite clear what your point is? The best judges, coaches etc I know in a range of fields are those who have come through the competition route. Regardless of how good a teacher you are, I think that you have to understand from within what it takes to compete, what are the hard things to achieve on the dancefloor under competition spotlight and what the 'cheats and tricks' are.

[azande]

Sorry ... not quite clear what your point is? The best judges, coaches etc I know in a range of fields are those who have come through the competition route. Regardless of how good a teacher you are, I think that you have to understand from within what it takes to compete, what are the hard things to achieve on the dancefloor under competition spotlight and what the 'cheats and tricks' are.
My point is that the course didn't have any pre-requisites.
Which means that my neighbour who is a mountain biker but never did or even watched any kind of dance could go and do it!

[Gus]

My point is that the course didn't have any pre-requisites.
Which means that my neighbour who is a mountain biker but never did or even watched any kind of dance could go and do it!Couple of points:

a) Who he then be able to pass?

b) Does this course carry any weight?

c) Does it invalidate the core statement that it helps to have competed to be able to judge competitions?

[DavidB]

Which means that my neighbour who is a mountain biker but never did or even watched any kind of dance could go and do it!You mean like the CTA? :devil: :devil:

[Gus]

You mean like the CTA? :devil: :devil:David .... SHAME ON YOU ..... they have to have a least done two, maybe three classes first! :rolleyes:

[Lorna]

David .... SHAME ON YOU ..... they have to have a least done two, maybe three classes first! :rolleyes:


:devil: :devil: :devil: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Lotsa love Lorna x-x

[Gus]

:devil: :devil: :devil: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Lotsa love Lorna x-xOK OK ... so maybe four!

...and which class did Lorna do that allows her to do quadruple spins while dancing to ZOOT SUIT RIOT :eek: :eek:

[Tiggerbabe]

...and which class did Lorna do that allows her to do quadruple spins while dancing to ZOOT SUIT RIOT :eek: :eek:
Only QUADRUPLE spins? :eek: not like her :wink: