What's in a name?

[killingtime]

I was looking at Ducasi's blog and he seems to have a similar problem as I do when it comes to try and record the intermediate moves that you have done.

That is that it can be really difficult to find out what the names of these moves are. I think this is, in part, because the instructor doesn't often mention them by name; even when they do they are often called things like Basket into Chocolate Covered Half Pretzel with a Swizzle and though I fully understand the benefit of making the move name a compound of the basic moves it involves I really feel I'd look a bit silly with a pen and paper ready in case they do mention the name.

I don't really find it that important to remember the name but it does help me when I'm thinking of what move to go into next.

What do other people think? I mean is the name really important at all; after all if you can do the move why is knowing what it called important?

[Yliander]

What do other people think? I mean is the name really important at all; after all if you can do the move why is knowing what it called important?well it can be useful when comparing moves with someone - and want to see if they know that move, or if you want them to give you a hand with it or when they want you to help them with it.

[Purple Sparkler]

Personally I get incredibly frustrated by the majority of teachers, who tend not to bother with telling you what a move is called. "That twizzly one" doesn't really tell you very much, but it's really the only way to describe a lot of the moves that get taught- naming no venues, of course. This is one of the many reasons I prefer the Australian teachers I've learned from as they actually give moves a name you can remember, which of course allows you to ask them about moves they've taught you before without having the faff of attempting to describe them.

[killingtime]

Personally I get incredibly frustrated by the majority of teachers, who tend not to bother with telling you what a move is called.

One of the Taxi dancers made a big point of naming the moves when I was doing one of the beginner revision sessions. I found it very useful as you can then ask someone if they know a move and it helps me think of the moves I know and what I want to move into. Maybe they could just mention each move’s name as you are about to learn it; in both the beginner and intermediate class.

[azande]

Maybe they could just mention each move’s name as you are about to learn it; in both the beginner and intermediate class.
I believe they already do.... at least at the classes I attend.

[El Salsero Gringo]

... This is one of the many reasons I prefer the Australian teachers I've learned from That will be all one of them - or are there more lurking around?

[JoC]

What do other people think? I mean is the name really important at all; after all if you can do the move why is knowing what it called important?
Definitely useful for drops, jumps, slides etc, if you need to confer with your partner before doing the move. Easier to shout 'blah-blah drop okay?' during a dance (okay optional) and have someone know what you mean rather than 'you okay with the drop where you link your arm in like that after I spin you this way...' met with 'is that the one where I hang onto your trousers and trail my arm like this?' met with 'no the other one where you...etcetcetc....' and all too soon the track has ended...

[David Franklin]

Definitely useful for drops, jumps, slides etc, if you need to confer with your partner before doing the move. Easier to shout 'blah-blah drop okay?' during a dance (okay optional) and have someone know what you mean rather than 'you okay with the drop where you link your arm in like that after I spin you this way...' met with 'is that the one where I hang onto your trousers and trail my arm like this?' met with 'no the other one where you...etcetcetc....' and all too soon the track has ended...It's not quite as bad as using signals, but, I have to point out that different people will use the same name for different moves. So this isn't actually a terribly safe plan if you're talking about the more dangerous drops and/or aerials.

[Andreas]

In NZ we also always wrote (they still do :D ) the names of the moves on a white board. The disadvantage is that people recognise a move and then don't pay attention when they actually should. However, it gave also everybody the chance to write down the moves, which helps immensely.

[JoC]

It's not quite as bad as using signals, but, I have to point out that different people will use the same name for different moves. So this isn't actually a terribly safe plan if you're talking about the more dangerous drops and/or aerials.
Good point. Useful if you're dancing with a regular partner, or someone who attended the same workshops as you though.

(I don't think anyone would do dangerous drops/aerials with someone they didn't know well (in the dance sense), would they? I suppose there always has to be a first time...I know...another thread exists!))

Also wondering now, is there really much variation in names of 'big' moves?

[ducasi]

Just to clarify... The teacher will pretty much always name the move, but often just once, and I'm usually too busy concentrating on the move itself to remember the name. :sad:

As the move is being taught often they will name parts of it, though they may bear little relationship to the full name. This is why the names I come up with are often verbose descriptions of the parts of the move rather than a perhaps more concise name.

I would value any method that allows me to accurately record the names of the moves I am taught. :flower:

[jockey]

I find names useful because I write routines down; and I write them down to help me remember them. Second, if the teacher calls out the names of the moves as he/she runs thro the routine prior to teaching it I know if I know it already! Sounds daft but ive dooe a few moves (unamed) and haaalfway thro i have realised I knew it already (having had some difficulty with it..dummy!)

My second answer is by way of a confession - I used to have a fixation on girlls with 4 letter first names. It got so I only went out with them, believing that it would all end badly if they had the "wrong" name. I am talking 10 years..My favourite was "Jane", then there was "Kate"(a real bonus here as it was a corruption of a longer name into 4 letters), Lynn was good, Dawn was fabulous, Rosy worked (I know it should be Rosie) etc. I"d forgotten about it until I saw your title. My foible started out being based on experience and then started fulfilling its own prophecy. My name is Jack, a corruption of "Jacques", French for James my second name. Any psychologists out there on the forum? Explanation please..

Thirdly (back to Jive) if someone asks "what was the routine" then I can tell them by way of the accepted shorthand rather than having to grab someone and show them.

Fourthly, if I am about to lead a dangerous drop with a relative stranger then if she recognises BALLROOM DROP! then she is forearmed. (Why does the answer "What" always come back! "What" isnt a name of any drop I know..say "what" again - I dare you, I doubledare you, m..........r!)

[David Franklin]

Good point. Useful if you're dancing with a regular partner, or someone who attended the same workshops as you though.

(I don't think anyone would do dangerous drops/aerials with someone they didn't know well (in the dance sense), would they? I suppose there always has to be a first time...I know...another thread exists!))It definitely happens, though not, I hope terribly often. (The pessimistic part of me wants to rephrase this as "It definitely happens, though not, usually, more than once").

Also wondering now, is there really much variation in names of 'big' moves?Absolutely - there's far more variation in names for aerials than for "normal" dance moves. For example, the lift in dirty dancing is known as the angel, the bird, or as a platter lift. In the opposite direction, there are at least four different moves I've seen called a star lift.

[ducasi]

My second answer is by way of a confession - I used to have a fixation on girls with 4 letter first names. It got so I only went out with them, believing that it would all end badly if they had the "wrong" name. I am talking 10 years..My favourite was "Jane", then there was "Kate"(a real bonus here as it was a corruption of a longer name into 4 letters), Lynn was good, Dawn was fabulous, Rosy worked (I know it should be Rosie) etc. I"d forgotten about it until I saw your title. My foible started out being based on experience and then started fulfilling its own prophecy. My name is Jack, a corruption of "Jacques", French for James my second name. Any psychologists out there on the forum? Explanation please.. It makes perfect sense. Names are very powerful modifiers of how we feel about the things around us. (And I think short names for girls are sexy. Just don't ask me why! :wink:)

And on the same topic, has anyone else noticed that there are some names that seem especially common on this forum and in the MJ world?

[killingtime]

Just to clarify... The teacher will pretty much always name the move, but often just once, and I'm usually too busy concentrating on the move itself to remember the name. :sad:

Well I did try looking over the moves described in your blog to see if I could help with any names but then I realised I didn't really know any names. azande stated that they mention them in Edinburgh as well. So I might just be missing them. I certainly heard one intermediate being named last night but totally failed to remember it.

[John S]

I used to have a fixation on girls with 4 letter first names.
.................. My name is Jack
.................. Any psychologists out there on the forum?
Hmmmm!!! :really:

[azande]

Well I did try looking over the moves described in your blog to see if I could help with any names but then I realised I didn't really know any names. azande stated that they mention them in Edinburgh as well. So I might just be missing them. I certainly heard one intermediate being named last night but totally failed to remember it.

You can always ask the teacher at the end of the class...... they will be more than happy to give you the list of moves with their proper names.

[MartinHarper]

You can always ask the teacher at the end of the class....

You know how sometimes you want to dance with a specific person, but whenever you look around they're always taken? It's like that with teachers, only more so.

[Franck]

You know how sometimes you want to dance with a specific person, but whenever you look around they're always taken? It's like that with teachers, only more so.
Not sure about other Ceroc classes, but up here, all our teachers write the full routine in a little book that is available with the Venue Manager at the front desk.
This is useful for Beginners and Intermediates who want to write down routines or be reminded of the previous weeks, but also for teachers, to look back at their routines and plan better, or when another teacher covers their night.

[Tessalicious]

It makes perfect sense. Names are very powerful modifiers of how we feel about the things around us. (And I think short names for girls are sexy. Just don't ask me why! :wink:)

And on the same topic, has anyone else noticed that there are some names that seem especially common on this forum and in the MJ world?Yup, I think about 1 man in 3 that does Ceroc in London is called Dave or David, and I know several Bryan/Brians who also interestingly all have very similar dancing personalities (I'm not giving any more info than that, it would be very unfair of me). It's got to the stage where when I ask a guy's name, it automatically goes in the brain filing system as 'David' 'Bryan' 'Other' or 'I'll never remember so just smile sweetly'

And on the original subject of the thread, I find that when I'm leading a new move I think of the name and the starting shape first, and then that helps me to follow on with the rest of the move, until it becomes second nature in which case I don't think about the name anymore. So obviously for me the name is an important part of the learning procedure. It is also a useful tool if you know that someone knows a move you want to lead but hasn't done it for a while so you can remind them of it, which generally makes the move work more smoothly (maybe I only need this cos I'm a rubbish lead but so be it, I'd rather it worked because I had the name than that it all went horribly wrong!).

[killingtime]

...up here, all our teachers write the full routine in a little book that is available with the Venue Manager at the front desk.

Fantastic. I'll ask if I can have a look at the book in the next class :clap:.