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View Full Version : £1 for a pint of tapwater?



El Salsero Gringo
17th-July-2005, 10:31 AM
Just wondering how the votes stack up on this issue. Ashtons is a case in point, but the question could apply anywhere.

David Bailey
17th-July-2005, 11:23 AM
Ashtons is a case in point
Mainly because the Ashtons Management are the most an*l about this issue of any venue I've ever seen.

Many (most?) venues I've been to say that you're not supposed to bring your own drinks, but they're pretty relaxed about bottles of water. Hipsters, Hammersmith, Casbah, etc.

Ashtons is the only place I know where this is policed, and where your drink can be confiscated and you can be banned for daring to sneak in a bottle of water.

It may be because Ashtons is a "proper club", the others are "just halls". But they're far and away the worst in this respect.

Tiggerbabe
17th-July-2005, 11:56 AM
Maybe it's because the only way they get to keep the venue is if the bar makes some money. :whistle:
Would it be better if they only sold bottled water? Must admit I'm not partial to drinking warm water *yeuch*

ducasi
17th-July-2005, 12:11 PM
Would it be better if they only sold bottled water? Must admit I'm not partial to drinking warm water *yeuch* With Jumpin' Jak's in Glasgow giving you the choice of tepid water by the half-pint or bottled water for £2 per 500ml, I've realised that most people bring their own.

Who could blame them? I've joined them.

(Can't help wondering why the company that owns Jumpin' Jak's is in financial difficulties... :whistle:)

LMC
17th-July-2005, 12:24 PM
Would it be better if they only sold bottled water? Must admit I'm not partial to drinking warm water *yeuch*

I started on bottled water on Friday for that reason - but after 4 x 330 ml bottles at £1.20 each in the first couple of hours :eek: ........
(and I would probably have drunk double that if we hadn't been based miles away from the bar!)

As ESG said on the other thread it *would* cost Ashtons less to keep the bar closed and allow people to BYO - they wouldn't be paying bar staff for a start.

Tiggerbabe
17th-July-2005, 12:25 PM
tepid water by the half-pint or bottled water for £2 per 500ml, I've realised that most people bring their own.
I'm intrigued as to how they manage to keep their own bottle of water colder than the free water offered..........(other than freezing it before you go dancing).

ducasi
17th-July-2005, 12:35 PM
I'm intrigued as to how they manage to keep their own bottle of water colder than the free water offered..........(other than freezing it before you go dancing). You got it in one! :waycool:

Last week I stuck my water in the freezer for an hour or two before coming out. :D

So your bottled water starts out very cold, and even if it warms up by the end of the night, it's still better than bothering with a bar man who appears to hold you in utter contempt. :sad:

JoC
17th-July-2005, 01:06 PM
Would it be better if they only sold bottled water?
I have to drag environment in here...add up all the bottles from one venue in one night (where bottles is the only choice), then multiply by 'x' number of venues for 'x' number of nights over a year. That's a horrendous volume of plastic waste per year and I have my doubts as to whether many venues bother recycling. In terms of sustainability I have to support tap water remaining an option where possible.

However if bottles are the only option... How about selling 2 litre bottles of water? And personally i'm not fussed about mineral water brand names (especially knowing where some brands of mineral water come from) so it could be Tesco value table water for all I care. If the venue had a cheap source of bottled water, they could still have their mark-up for profit and yet keep the prices nice and cheap for the punters, for what is essentially, an essential. :grin:

Lynn
17th-July-2005, 01:10 PM
I like to bring my own water everywhere. In hot weather I would freeze it/chill it to keep it cool - you can also get little bottle 'chill bags' that zip round a small bottle.

But I don't bring a big 2 litre bottle, just a small one. If dancing I would always be drinking more than that. If no free water I would buy a soft drink. If there is free water I would probably still buy a soft drink but would also refill my bottle - but that's because when you look at a table with six identical glasses of water, how do you remember which is yours? Having your own bottle is much easier to identify, or even keep in your shoe bag so that no-one accidentally thinks its theirs.

Tiggerbabe
17th-July-2005, 01:35 PM
I have to support tap water remaining an option where possible.

Thanks Jo, it really was a question as to whether people would prefer only bottled water to be available, than have to pay for tap water.

JoC
17th-July-2005, 02:44 PM
Thanks Jo, it really was a question as to whether people would prefer only bottled water to be available, than have to pay for tap water.
Yes sorry Sheena I'm just having a flush of environmental principles. Regardless of whether you have to pay for tap water or not, I'd still make the same argument for not having a 'bottled only' option where you have the facilities to make it a choice. Every little helps. :flower:

I've just been collecting plastic bottles for recycling from home this afternoon and I'm really really fed up with myself for using as many as I do :sad: . Can you tell I've got a thing about plastic bottles? :rofl:

(Oh no, I've revealed my kryptonite, woops!)

*trails off with birch twigs in hand...again*

Gadget
17th-July-2005, 03:35 PM
I tend to keep a bottle of water in the car for the journey home, but at the venues I really should drink more.
I have also been known to go to the toilet purley to blot my face and scoof some water from my hands out of the sink taps - probably from some infested tank on the roof, but at that point in the vening I can rarely be bothered queing at the bar or hunting out my wallet to but some drink.

Oh, I've also seen some places charging £3.00 for a can of coke. That I find hard to justify.

MartinHarper
17th-July-2005, 05:23 PM
Yes sorry Sheena I'm just having a flush of environmental principles.

Nod.
It's not just the plastic waste that bottled water creates. There's also the environmental impact of transporting all these truckfulls of bottled water around the place, burning up petrol as they do it. If I care the slightest amount about the environment, there's no way I should be choosing bottled water over tap water, at least in the UK.

Lucy Locket
17th-July-2005, 05:56 PM
i use the same plastic bottle over & over again, why don't you lot take the empty one home & refill it for next time or keep one in your car & keep another in the fridge & use one to water your plants. we have recyling box collection & spare ones go there.

Scarlet O Hara
17th-July-2005, 11:33 PM
I think tap water should be free, but i am happy to pay a small charge for the use of a glass. Tuesday at Peterculter charges 20p half pint and 40p a pint i think this is fair, they do have to collect the glasses and wash them after use.

Another point if people hold back drinking because of the cost we could have ill dancers especially in this hot weather, i passed out myself at a hot workshop when i hadn't drunk enough.

Tessalicious
18th-July-2005, 12:16 AM
As ESG said on the other thread it *would* cost Ashtons less to keep the bar closed and allow people to BYO - they wouldn't be paying bar staff for a start....which in my opinion would improve the atmosphere of Ashtons considerably, since the bar staff there are so consistently rude (like they're doing you a favour, and putting themselves at considerable inconvenience, by charging you £1 for a warm glass of tap water)!

But, for the benefit of those dancers who like the presence of the bar at such venues due to the better choice of drinks, this and the quality of the venue have to be paid for somehow and a small cover charge for water is the most obvious solution, even though I agree that £1 every time is excessive. I have noticed though, they don't seem to object to how much ice you use, even though that's more expensive for them to provide (one of these days I'm going to just ask for an empty glass which they can't possibly charge me for and then let them watch as I fill it up with ice from the counter... free cold tap water! :yum: ).

bobgadjet
18th-July-2005, 12:18 AM
I pointed out to the staff at one venue that wanted £2.40 a litre (which is not too bad) that I had just filled my car with petrol, at only 83p per litre, and you cant run a car on water, to which she replied..... Have you ever tried drinking petrol ?

Anyway, back to the thread.......
There ARE other venues where "outside" drinks are policed, and there are other reasons than "just being a club"

Having used many halls in the past where few of the "dancers" of ANY dance form, drink enough for the venue to warrant running a bar, it then becomes a part of the renters contract that NO outside drinks are allowed to be brought in. If they catch continued violation of their "contract", they stand to lose the use of the hall.

This is particularly relevant where the hall is a licenced club, or indeed just a licenced premises.

So think again when you sneak your drink in..... it may well be the end of your dancing at that venue.

Whilst I fully understand the reasons behind charging ANYTHING for "TAP" water, I by no means think it is fair to charge for tap water.

In a venue I used to use they decided NOT to sell or supply tap water at all, stating their reason that they could not guarantee the quality. I found this a fair argument also, and as they only charged a basic price for the cheap brand bottled water (as suggested previously) they had no problems, after a few weeks of notifying everybody their reasons, and people gladly paid for the bottled water.

The most I have personally been charged for water was.... are you ready for this........... £18 for 2 PINTS of bottled water, in a Mayfair restaurant.

My own personal reflection on this whole WATER subject is, that at ANY venue we seem to be at the mercy of those who want to make a huge mark up on a drink we all have taken for granted for so many years.

We have all recently been made very aware that there are in fact MILLIONS of people in certain situiations that may well be prepared (if they could only afford it) to pay anything for a bottle of uncontaminated water.

BUT

I think it would be a positive thing if there were a limit to the price of a bottle of plain bottled, so called spring, water.

I would like to see a law stating that the MAXIMUM that could be charged per litre of ordinary bottled water in a supermarket as one price, in a pub a smaybe 10% or 15% higher, and in a club, maybe a 10% higher price again, but certainly NO MORE for water than one would expect to pay for petrol.

If you have a thing about paying any price for water of any description I suggest you find a brew the venue has that they earn only a small profit on, and only buy that. Over all their income at the bar may go up, or stay the same, but their overall profit would fall, and they might just see the light.

Wishful thinking I know, but its just a suggestion. :D

bobgadjet
18th-July-2005, 12:25 AM
.one of these days I'm going to just ask for an empty glass which they can't possibly charge me for
Oh yes they can :D
If you use THEIR glass, they have the right to charge a nominal charge for handling it, ie: handing you the glass, collecting it at the end of the evening, loading the glass washer, emptying the glasswasher, reloading the glass to the shelf, etc, and ALSO paying the staff to do all that.

And what if you broke the glass ? Would you be prepared to pay for it's replacement ?

Thanks for the dance by the way :flower:

MartinHarper
18th-July-2005, 12:42 AM
i use the same plastic bottle over & over again...

I do this, but there's a limit to how much I can do this. I might easily drink a couple of pints of water over an evening's dancing - perhaps five bottles worth. Dancing twice a week, for one year, that'd be five hundred plastic water bottles. Ok, one in the car, one in the fridge, one as a watering can.... what do I do with the other 497? Recycling is great, but not creating the waste (and the petrol pollution) in the first place is much better.

Fortunately, none of my local venues are irresponsible enough to refuse to serve tap water, whether paid or free.


...those dancers who like the presence of the bar at such venues due to the better choice of drinks...

Bringing my own drink provides me a better choice of drink than any bar.

El Salsero Gringo
18th-July-2005, 07:46 AM
If you have a thing about paying any price for water of any description I suggest you find a brew the venue has that they earn only a small profit on, and only buy that. Good idea, Bob. In fact, using the same logic, next time I object to paying 80p per litre for petrol, I'm going to fill up my car with cheap lemonade - just so the petrol retailer learns his lesson about supplying overpriced road fuel.

The reason we want water is not because it's cheap, but because that's what we like to drink. If I wanted beer - I'd have beer. The fact that I want (free to the venue) tapwater but am forced to pay even more stupid prices than if I did drink (expensive) beer is what I object to.

David Franklin
18th-July-2005, 08:19 AM
As ESG said on the other thread it *would* cost Ashtons less to keep the bar closed and allow people to BYO - they wouldn't be paying bar staff for a start.
...which in my opinion would improve the atmosphere of Ashtons considerably, since the bar staff there are so consistently rude (like they're doing you a favour, and putting themselves at considerable inconvenience, by charging you £1 for a warm glass of tap water)! :yeah: The bar staff really tend towards obnoxious at Ashtons, particularly when you're ordering water or soft drinks. To be fair, their mood is probably not helped by punters consistently moaning about the price of said drinks. But that just emphasises how the current policy doesn't work.

I do think £1 a pint for tap water is a rip-off. It's not even that the charge is for "service", because as far as I know, they charge only 50p for a half-pint. The only reasonable conclusion is the charge is for the water.

Again, part of the problem is the perceived lack of service. If they were charging £1 per pint of chilled, filtered water, and actually made an effort, I suspect people would have less of a problem. Currently, the bar-staff at Ashtons behave as if tap water is nasty free stuff only cheap b**stards would drink, and then wonder why we object to paying a pound for it.

I don't know how all the finances work out - I find it hard to believe Ashtons is actually making that much on the bar. In which case they might do better to increase the entrance charge. They are losing customers - I definitely know people who avoid Ashtons because of the drink charges.

On the other hand, I do strongly believe that if "no bringing in drinks" is part of the conditions of entry, then either keep to that or don't go. "But water's really expensive at Ashtons" is not an excuse for breaking the rules...

El Salsero Gringo
18th-July-2005, 08:56 AM
:yeah: The bar staff really tend towards obnoxious at Ashtons, particularly when you're ordering water or soft drinks.To be fair, my experience of them is perhaps better than that of DavidFranklin and Tessalicious - I usually manage an exchange of smiles. Maybe that's because I go for the "pint of soda with lime" - at an only slightly less extortionate £1.40. Also I've never found it very helpful (anywhere) to moan at the bar staff about prices. They don't have the discretion to change them and if it were I behind the bar I'd be embarrassed enough already about what I was expecting people to pay for water without having customers rub my nose in it.

It's really only Linda who has the clout to change things.

bigdjiver
18th-July-2005, 10:41 AM
I have enjoyed many evenings at Ashtons where I paid only £3 to dance until 3.a.m In those circumstances I paid my money for the water, even though I thought the pricing policy ridiculous. I thought we should be paying at least £12 admission for such a venue on a weekend. IMO tapwater should be free, cost included in admission price, at every dance venue, by law, for health and safety reasons.

PJH
18th-July-2005, 12:03 PM
I've found the staff to be quite friendly, I usually get a pint of Soda water as it doesn't seem to be as bad as having to pay for tap water, and it's also quite cool(refreshing rather than a fashion statement).
Has anyone thought of finding a tap and refilling their glass?

David Franklin
18th-July-2005, 12:07 PM
I've never found it very helpful (anywhere) to moan at the bar staff about prices. They don't have the discretion to change them and if it were I behind the bar I'd be embarrassed enough already about what I was expecting people to pay for water without having customers rub my nose in it.To clarify, I wouldn't actively complain, either. But here's one real-life exchange (from memory)

Me: Can I get a pint of coke please?
Bar lady: The draft coke's not working. We've got bottles at £1:20?
Me: Are they the little 110ml bottles?
Bar lady: Yes (actually, she just points to the bottles)
Me: So that will cost me £6 for a pint. Sorry, I'll do without.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I don't (particularly) think she's being unreasonable. But I think we both left that conversation pretty ****ed off with the other party. It's all to do with the system not being set up to provide soft drinks / water in the volume dancers want.

El Salsero Gringo
18th-July-2005, 12:27 PM
To clarify, I wouldn't actively complain, either. But here's one real-life exchange (from memory)

Me: Can I get a pint of coke please?
Bar lady: The draft coke's not working. We've got bottles at £1:20?
Me: Are they the little 110ml bottles?
Bar lady: Yes (actually, she just points to the bottles)
Me: So that will cost me £6 for a pint. Sorry, I'll do without.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I don't (particularly) think she's being unreasonable. But I think we both left that conversation pretty ****ed off with the other party. It's all to do with the system not being set up to provide soft drinks / water in the volume dancers want.She probably thinks that we're all barking mad, having seen what we do on a dance floor. So perhaps £6 for a pint of coke just fits into the stereotype.

I agree though, and get the same thing in pubs: very few are willing to provide sensible quantities of soft drinks, but they'll sell you beer by the pint on which their margin is much less. I've never understood it.

bobgadjet
18th-July-2005, 12:47 PM
but they'll sell you beer by the pint on which their margin is much less. I've never understood it.
Yes, I'm with you there (previous quote)
I've never really understood the sense of selling huge quantities of something that has a high tax content as opposed to selling something at a huge profit with little or no tax content.

The actual profit on a £2.40 pint of beer must be in the region of 50p, and the profit on a £1 pint of tap water is in the region of 99p, but they still would rather sell you a pint of beer, than 2 pints of water.

Logic .... what logic ?

:eek:

MartinHarper
18th-July-2005, 02:21 PM
Very few are willing to provide sensible quantities of soft drinks, but they'll sell you beer by the pint on which their margin is much less. I've never understood it.

Apparently the breweries judge them on the basis of how much alcohol they sell, and don't care about non-alcoholic drinks or money from rent. Perhaps the breweries have a vested interest in a nation of alcoholics?

David Bailey
18th-July-2005, 02:42 PM
Apparently the breweries judge them on the basis of how much alcohol they sell, and don't care about non-alcoholic drinks or money from rent. Perhaps the breweries have a vested interest in a nation of alcoholics?
I think that's true - a lot of times the judgement is made on revenue alone, and ignores little trivial details such as the, you know, profit made.

Hell, the profit margin on coke (especially the draught coke at Ashtons, about which I have my suspicions) is probably 99p in the £ anyway.

Don't expect rationality from some people, that's my advice. :sad:

KatieR
18th-July-2005, 02:45 PM
I've found the staff to be quite friendly, I usually get a pint of Soda water as it doesn't seem to be as bad as having to pay for tap water, and it's also quite cool(refreshing rather than a fashion statement).
Has anyone thought of finding a tap and refilling their glass?

Hey PJH it was great to meet you on Friday night! :hug:

I think refilling your glass is a good idea but i think to pay for something that comes out of the tap is a bit silly. They dont have to buy any post mix from anywhere so it really is 100% profit for them. however, I dont mind paying a little bit for a glass of tap water if it means keeping the cost of the event down. But £1 to me is crazy. I think 50p would be a much more realistic price to pay for just tap water.

El Salsero Gringo
18th-July-2005, 03:20 PM
Apparently the breweries judge them on the basis of how much alcohol they sell, and don't care about non-alcoholic drinks or money from rent. Perhaps the breweries have a vested interest in a nation of alcoholics?That's true, but I just can't close the loop. The brewery gives them bonuses, discounts, or some kind of monetary reward (it always comes back to money) for selling more beer. But people who want a soft drink don't want alcohol - they want a soft drink. Making the soft drinks cheaper is hardly going to diminish the alcohol sales, and the bar would take *more* cash by selling more soft drinks.

And *why* are the breweries so much more keen on selling alcohol when they could selling more soft drinks as well?

frodo
19th-July-2005, 12:42 AM
:yeah: The bar staff really tend towards obnoxious at Ashtons, particularly when you're ordering water or soft drinks.
...
Again, part of the problem is the perceived lack of service. If they were charging £1 per pint of chilled, filtered water, and actually made an effort, I suspect people would have less of a problem...

Having heard about Ashtons tap water before I first went, I was quite pleased to get iced water in a pint glass for £1.00.

That might have been something to do with expections but it is nicer than buying a 500 ml bottle of luke warm mineral water for a similar price.

clevedonboy
19th-July-2005, 09:30 AM
For venues to get a licence to hold dances where drug taking is a known issue (I believe they used to be known as "raves" m'lud) cool seating areas and free drinking water are prerequisites of the granting of the licence. So start taking lots of litlle sweeties to your dance & hand them round in a furtive manner, get really hot & sweaty & then start doing the "Big Fish, Little Fish, Card Box" dance when the rozzers arrive

David Bailey
19th-July-2005, 01:33 PM
And *why* are the breweries so much more keen on selling alcohol when they could selling more soft drinks as well?
It's fairly safe to assume inertia and incompetence as a given for most large companies. Selling alcohol is What They Do, they've been doing it for decades, it's what they'll continue to do.


So start taking lots of litlle sweeties to your dance
Check.


& hand them round in a furtive manner
Check.


, get really hot & sweaty
Check :sad:


& then start doing the "Big Fish, Little Fish, Card Box" dance when the rozzers arrive
Hmm, is that like the Rotating Russian? :whistle:

ducasi
19th-July-2005, 06:18 PM
Here's something I've been meaning to post for a while...

From the "Ceroc Commandments" given in the "The Ceroc Guide" brochure that's handed out at the door, and maybe found else-where...


The ten most important things you should know when attending a Ceroc Night.
1. You don't need to come with a partner.
... blah blah blah ...
6. No Ceroc venue allows you to bring in your own drink.
... blah blah blah ... Comments?

Lynn
19th-July-2005, 06:41 PM
Comments?Depends on what they are referring to - ie - do they mean 'don't bring any alcohol' - fair enough - or do they mean don't bring anything, not even a small bottle of water?

We are all keen dancers on here, we will put up with things to go dancing. But I wouldn't do any form of exercise, from dancing to a walk, without bringing water with me. If I was told right at the start that I could never bring water with me to a dance class, I possibly never would have got 'hooked' on the dancing as I would have looked for another venue/another dance style.

David Bailey
19th-July-2005, 07:41 PM
Comments?
Yes - as I said, err, somewhere (I'm getting lost with all these water threads), technically you shouldn't bring your own drink to any venue.

In practice, as far as I know Ashtons is the only venue I know of that rigorously enforce this ruling to the full force of the law. Most other venues turn a blind eye.