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View Full Version : Dance Weekends - profitable?



Paul F
10th-July-2005, 03:38 PM
Something I have been wondering about recently....how profitable are weekenders for those that run it.

The big weekenders (the ones with 1000+) - Camber, Bognor, Southport are really popular and are often fully subscribed.

With 1000 - 1400 people attending and each paying, say £100 each - thats between £100,000 and £140,000 an organiser can take in bookings over the weekend :eek: :eek:

Ok, so Im sure loads of people get freebies or discounts so lets say on average the amount of money taken through bookings is £110,000 (complete guess). How much of this , after all deductions, is profit?

I wouldnt even begin to guess how much Pontins, Butlins et al. charge for hiring out the whole complex but I guess, in summer especially, it wouldn't be cheap.
On top of that you have the many other things an organiser would need to shell out for ........ but would you. What exactly is needed on top of the resort? Does the resort include staff costs, insurance and other things or are they extra? I just dont know.

If anyone knows anything more about it, or even wild speculation :clap: , it would really interesting to hear any views.


ps. no , im not thinking about running my own :)

Minnie M
10th-July-2005, 04:48 PM
IMO there are too many weekenders already..... so please Paul don't even think about doing one BUT..... if you were thinking of a French weekender, well that sounds like fun !

Not to far to travel to and they 'nearly' dance the same :clap: I am sure there are some cheap deals with Eurostar and there must be holiday camps over there

:yeah:

Paul F
10th-July-2005, 04:57 PM
IMO there are too many weekenders already..... so please Paul don't even think about doing one BUT..... if you were thinking of a French weekender, well that sounds like fun !

Not to far to travel to and they 'nearly' dance the same :clap: I am sure there are some cheap deals with Eurostar and there must be holiday camps over there

:yeah:

Dont worry I have no intention, no time and no inclination to start one. It was just something I have always wondered.

The thing most people mention about the weekenders and big nights in general is about air-con. Its a recurring thing so I wondered how expensive it would be to get air-con at these events. That led me to wonder about profit etc - hence the thread.

Definately definately agree that a French weekender would be good though. :clap:
Maybe its just me but some of these dance holidays are about £600 for 1 week. That seems a little expensive to me. A jaunt over to France would be great.

David Bailey
10th-July-2005, 06:09 PM
The thing most people mention about the weekenders and big nights in general is about air-con. Its a recurring thing so I wondered how expensive it would be to get air-con at these events. That led me to wonder about profit etc - hence the thread.
Decent built-in aircon is massively expensive - tens of thousands of pounds initial investment even for a relatively small hall, then there's upkeep and maintenance. And it only gets used by us lot - so from Butlins point-of-view, it's just not worth it.

That's why most places make do with the fans.

But in this weather, the aircon places are looking very attractive. Did someone mention Luton...?

Lynn
10th-July-2005, 06:11 PM
Maybe its just me but some of these dance holidays are about £600 for 1 week. That seems a little expensive to me. They aren't all that dear, I was on one a lot less than that, which is good as I always have the flight from NI to add on.

Re weekenders - I'm sure that between venue, staff, publicity etc costs and if you added up all the hours people spend running these events, then worked out their net profit at an hourly rate, there would be a lot of other things they could be doing earning more money! I've only been to the Jive Addiction events so far (nearly got to Bognor but took sick the morning I was supposed to go :tears: ) and I think they have all been great value for money. :worthy:

Andy McGregor
10th-July-2005, 06:16 PM
You only have to look at Franco's house to work out the profitability ...

Paul F
10th-July-2005, 06:35 PM
I get the feeling that when you book out a resort you get all the staff, cleaners etc in with the price. Cant see organisers drafting in their own staff.

That leaves sorting teachers and advertising. Hard work, yes, but not amazingly so I wouldnt say.
I guess the reason I brought up this thread is to ascertain what exactly the public should be DEMANDING from events and weekenders over what is simply provided.

Would we be justified in insisting on extra facilities eg air-con units, provisions eg. catered cuisine or accommodations (and i dont mean where you sleep :) ) eg. packing people in?

Its weird as I also believe the weekends are good value for money and very enjoyable but should that mean we should ignore that organisers MAY be making a fortune and not demanding extras?


ps. I have no axe to grind here as I am not connected with any weekenders in any way nor do I want to be. Its just an observation.

bigdjiver
10th-July-2005, 08:27 PM
If you are really interested in the profitability companies file accounts, and copies can be obtained cheaply. Franco used to subsidise weekly classes in Ealing from the profits of his, and very enjoyable they were, although not very well attended when I was going.

Tiggerbabe
10th-July-2005, 08:41 PM
organisers MAY be making a fortune
Sorry, Paul, but I find that hard to believe. :blush:

Paul F
10th-July-2005, 08:51 PM
Sorry, Paul, but I find that hard to believe. :blush:

So do I to be honest. I can only imagine the hard work that goes into it. Still , I would love to know :whistle:

Guess im just the curious type :grin:

David Bailey
10th-July-2005, 10:22 PM
I guess the reason I brought up this thread is to ascertain what exactly the public should be DEMANDING from events and weekenders over what is simply provided.

Would we be justified in insisting on extra facilities eg air-con units, provisions eg. catered cuisine or accommodations (and i dont mean where you sleep :) ) eg. packing people in?
I totally applaud any attempt to improve standards at these things - here :clap:
And any decent organisers should join in that applause.
But I don't think "You're making pots, give some back" is the right approach.
I also think any questions about Money And Dancing are likely to be sensitive - unfortunate, but that's the way people are. I don't even know for sure how much Ceroc teachers are paid per night, for example.


Its weird as I also believe the weekends are good value for money and very enjoyable but should that mean we should ignore that organisers MAY be making a fortune and not demanding extras?.
I stongly suspect the organisers are not making fortunes out of it. In fact, I know for a fact that of, say, several hundred people making money out of MJ, only about 1% are making real money out of it.

And I don't care. In fact, as a consumer, I wish more people were making more money out of it, that might introduce a bit more professionalism into the arena, which would hopefully drive standards up. I'm a big believer in market forces, me.

bigdjiver
11th-July-2005, 12:13 AM
...And I don't care. In fact, as a consumer, I wish more people were making more money out of it, that might introduce a bit more professionalism into the arena, which would hopefully drive standards up. I'm a big believer in market forces, me.And the best selling and most profitable newspaper is ... ?

I too believe in more profit, because I think that will produce more MJ. The bigger the base of the pyramid, the higher the top can be, but there will be a lot more people at the bottom. Whatever happens, I do not want to see the first step any higher.

David Bailey
11th-July-2005, 09:09 AM
And the best selling and most profitable newspaper is ... ?
The Sun - best-written newspaper in the world, in my professional opinion. So that supports my argument :innocent:

Of course, I suspect your definition of "standards" is somewhat different to mine. :whistle:

Lynn
11th-July-2005, 09:56 AM
I get the feeling that when you book out a resort you get all the staff, cleaners etc in with the price. Cant see organisers drafting in their own staff. I'm sure the venue provides cleaners, bar staff, security staff etc, but there are floors to be laid, equipment and rooms to be set up, people to tell you where to park, people at check in...etc, and they all will need some sort of reimbursement, hard cash or in kind via reduced/free entry to the event.

I'm involved in organising a large (free) Christian conference - 4000+ people per day and I have some idea of the hard work by many required to manage large numbers of people and all the little details that need to be attended to.

Dan Hudson
11th-July-2005, 03:23 PM
Roughly the cost to air condition something the size of camber upstairs room on a permanent basis would be around £75-100K :what: :what:

The hire units are roughly what Franco gets already.... to hire these wee machines costs approx £120 each plus delivery/collection charge

And to be honest they are not majorly effective for such a big area. :tears:

I am afraid, places like Pontins/Butlins place little or no priority on a/c as generally we don't have the weather to justify the costs. :angry:

*shameless plug* :whistle:

if anyone needs foxed or portble air conditioning give me a shout, we have office all over the country :flower:


So in answer, a/c is not a massive cost, but portable units are not great for the large areas....

I don't think the organisers make much, but there is certainly some profit. otherwise, for the likes of Camber its not worth running!!

Paul F
11th-July-2005, 03:39 PM
if anyone needs foxed or portble air conditioning give me a shout, we have office all over the country :flower:


Shameless plug or not I dont care. If you can bring that little bit of comfort to a freestyle night that I so crave you are my favourite person in the world :grin:

Dan Hudson
11th-July-2005, 04:23 PM
Will hopefully have some portable units for the next Greenwich party :clap:

To be honest, even if the venue is air conditioned, you will still get hot, dancing is strenuous exercise for most people :whistle:

Liken it to your local gym, most are now air conditioned, but you rarely FEEL the benefit whilst you are exercising, unless you are directly under it.


Most venues I know of don't make enough money to consider it.. :( :sad: