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ChrisA
6th-July-2005, 04:26 PM
Ok, following on from Andy's now-familiar opinion here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=131917&postcount=6) on saying no, I was wondering how people would actually prefer to get a refusal, from someone that really didn't want to dance with them, for whatever reason.

Personally, if someone doesn't want to dance with me, I'd rather know straight away (even if it stings a bit), so that I don't keep going up to her, asking, and getting a (probably rather unconvincing, particularly after the second refusal) excuse.

But maybe others are different, and maybe there is a difference between the sexes, as Andy suggests.

I'd be curious to know who has which opinion, but I've left it anonymous.

Piglet
6th-July-2005, 04:39 PM
Personally, if someone doesn't want to dance with me, I'd rather know straight away (even if it stings a bit), so that I don't keep going up to him, asking, and getting a (probably rather unconvincing, particularly after the second refusal) excuse.

I wouldn't rush to ask them again though probably.

David Bailey
6th-July-2005, 04:42 PM
I'd rather preserve my illusions I think; tact and deceit have a lot going for them in my opinion.


Personally, if someone doesn't want to dance with me, I'd rather know straight away (even if it stings a bit), so that I don't keep going up to her, asking, and getting a (probably rather unconvincing, particularly after the second refusal) excuse.
Well, I solve that dilemna by not asking twice :innocent:

Seriously, why ask multiple times? You've already expressed an interest - if the lady wants to dance with you, she'll ask you; if she doesn't ask, she probably doesn't want to.

It's not as if there are a shortage of people to dance with...

Rhythm King
6th-July-2005, 04:50 PM
I have taken refusals rather personally in the past, but am more philosphical about it now. It is annoying if someone turns you down for a dance and is then straight on to the floor with the next available male. I do sometimes turn people down, but always for a reason, be it drink, shirt change or whatever, but I make a point of looking for them subsequently. If I do turn someone down, on the grounds of having a rest, I'll usually sit out the remainder of the song, or the next one, on purpose. Even so, occasionally I'll be sitting down for a rest and an unrefusable offer will come my way :grin: I do feel a bit guilty though. AS you say, if someone turns me down more than a couple of times, without an apparently valid reason, then I don't ask them again. There are one or two people I try to avoid and normally it's a case of spotting them first and getting on the floor with someone else first, cowardly, but effective. I know I've been grabbed this way in the past.

ChrisA
6th-July-2005, 04:52 PM
Well, I solve that dilemna by not asking twice :innocent:

Seriously, why ask multiple times?
Well, it's not exactly a common problem :waycool:, but it occasionally happens that I'm too slow on the uptake to notice that a girl is really thirsty or needs a break for some reason.

So I'm very happy to be turned down if she really needs a drink - the last thing I want to do is drag someone back out on to the floor when she's about to pass out from dehydration, or have her feel guilty for turning me down and having a drink instead.

So I would never make that mental note not to ask someone again if that was the reason. Hopefully I could pick up the "I'm lying - I really don't want to dance with you" vibe, but I might miss it and ask again.

And if I really wanted to dance with her then I certainly would ask again if I didn't feel anything personal in the refusal. Chances are she'd be in demand so I'd have to.

But if someone doesn't want to dance with me at all, I'd rather know so that I can definitely not ask.

Pammy
6th-July-2005, 04:52 PM
Personally, if someone doesn't want to dance with me, I'd rather know straight away.

Ah, but a man with many wives is clearly seldom turned down...

Thus ends old Chinese proverb...

SilverFox
6th-July-2005, 04:55 PM
I've only ever been refused a dance once, last year when I was still a novice. Not that I bear grudges...but, I've had great pleasure refusing her twice quite recently. :D

ducasi
6th-July-2005, 04:59 PM
I'd be curious to know who has which opinion, but I've left it anonymous. I went for the direct "no thanks" option, but I think I'd rather actually hear why I was getting a knock-back, so that I could perhaps correct whatever behaviour is putting them off.

That said, I don't remember ever having had a refusal from an experienced dancer beyond a simple postponement. (I don't expect beginners to always want to dance.)

There are maybe one or two ladies that I might want to say no to, but its so-far been easier to just dance and try to enjoy it rather than risking ruining their night. (Which I managed to do once just by giving a "not just now"-type response. :sad:)

Danielle
6th-July-2005, 05:01 PM
I've only ever been refused a dance once, last year when I was still a novice. Not that I bear grudges...but, I've had great pleasure refusing her twice quite recently. :D

i had a similar experience recently, but i said yes to the dance but took even greater pleasure in turning him down when he asked if i wanted a 2nd straight after!!! :D

But seriously guys to watch your timing, i was standing at the bar last night, money in hand trying to get served when a guy asked me to dance :confused: :confused: though it was fairly obvious i wasn't dancing :what:

Trousers
6th-July-2005, 05:06 PM
i just try to be someone they wouldn't want to say no to.

I don't stamp, don't wear vests, change my Tshirt before it's soggy, try very hard to be the best lead they had all night (ok i aspire).

But as I wear loud pants I get turned down by people I don't know in venues I don't frequent often - I assume it's the trousers?

I won't try her again that night, there are plenty of victims to select from.

If a lady I know turns me down there will be a good reason and being tired is a good reason to me especially after 3 fast tracks etc. etc.

The only time it irks is when you know the woman you just got turned down by was the perfect partner for the track playing and you end up with someone no quite as exciting.

Hey Ho! (look i can do calm and collected posting)

Lady Ceroc'ers are like buses and I play in the forecourt of Digbeth Bus depot. There'll be another one along in a minute! :rofl:

Okay Okay the sexiest buses you've ever seen!

Northants Girly
6th-July-2005, 05:16 PM
I've only ever been refused a dance once, last year when I was still a novice. Not that I bear grudges...but, I've had great pleasure refusing her twice quite recently. :DGood on you!

thats exactly what I would do :nice:
and if anyone turns me down then I never ever ever ask them to dance again :mad:


I feel SO much better now I've got that off my chest :)

Andy McGregor
6th-July-2005, 05:20 PM
and if anyone turns me down then I never ever ever ask them to dance again :mad: :yeah:

And, if I'm feeling devilish, I sometimes say "if you ever change your mind, please feel free to ask me, I never say no" :devil:

Northants Girly
6th-July-2005, 05:25 PM
:yeah:

And, if I'm feeling devilish, I sometimes say "if you ever change your mind, please feel free to ask me, I never say no" :devil:That is an excellent reply to a turndown! I'm going to try and remember it :D

Anyone else got any good ones? :whistle:

SilverFox
6th-July-2005, 05:26 PM
I feel SO much better now I've got that off my chest :) Is there anything else you'd like to get off your chest?.... :devil: :devil:

:blush: Sorry, must be the time of the month....

Northants Girly
6th-July-2005, 05:28 PM
Is there anything else you'd like to get off your chest?.... :devil: :devil:

:blush: Sorry, must be the time of the month....Whats is the matter with you! :really:

You've had 5 rummages this year already - isn't that enough! :whistle:

SilverFox
6th-July-2005, 05:29 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You don't really want an answer to that......

JoC
6th-July-2005, 06:05 PM
So I'm very happy to be turned down if she really needs a drink
I'd find that difficult to give as a reason (unless I don't have a drink to hand and need to actually go to the bar), I'll usually ask if I can grab a quick drink, chuck a few mouthfuls down my neck and get dancing.

As for being refused, I'm a sensitive sort so I might be quite hurt if I was told outright (perhaps depending who it was) and would generally prefer tactful excuses, and after a refusal of the excuse variety I'd possibly leave it to the 'refuser' to ask me when they're ready. Leaves the ball in their court.

I can see the advantages of getting things straight early on, but I'd need a really really really good dance from someone lovely straight afterwards to help me recover from a direct no before the philosophical phase set in. Otherwise :tears:

I've never refused anyone yet, but I'm still a relative newbie over-enthusiastic puppy type who knocks chairs over, tramples on babies and shoves old ladies to the floor in my haste to accept a dance. Daresay it'll happen one day...

Seahorse
6th-July-2005, 06:08 PM
Ever since as a beginner I've been told never to refuse a dance with anyone though I often think valid excuses are often open to misinterpretation.

Got myself in a awkward situation on Friday night at Hipsters (cracking night BTW)... having had several dance partners casually mention that I was too hot (running out of spare T-shirts) - and so decided to sit out a few dances so as to cool down.

Then someone I knew (through a friend) came over and asked me to dance. For her benefit I mentioned of my resting for a while (no one likes a sweaty bloke), to which I got the response... well you don't have to dance with me if you don't want to... which was embarrassing... and of course I felt obliged... and whilst doing so felt awful having tried to explain...

so I have some empathy with Danielle's comment about timing... to which i would add phrasing as being important.

ducasi
6th-July-2005, 06:10 PM
I've only ever been refused a dance once, last year when I was still a novice. Not that I bear grudges...but, I've had great pleasure refusing her twice quite recently. :D
thats exactly what I would do :nice:
And, if I'm feeling devilish, I sometimes say "if you ever change your mind, please feel free to ask me, I never say no" :devil:
That is an excellent reply to a turndown! I'm going to try and remember it :D Sorry Miss Northants, but if you would turn someone down for an earlier refusal, you won't honestly be able to say to them "I never say no". :flower:

Gojive
6th-July-2005, 06:22 PM
Is there anything else you'd like to get off your chest?....

Sorry, must be the time of the month....


Whats is the matter with you! :really:

You've had 5 rummages this year already - isn't that enough! :whistle:


:eek: ...plus all those other 'ladies' he's had rummages with! :na:

OK, to answer the question :blush: - I'd prefer to be told the truth, pure and simple :) .

If I'm refused just once without a reason, then I don't waste my time asking again (it's only happened twice to me in 6 years or so, that I can recall).

If I got a few seemingly good excuses from the same woman over time, without an acceptence in between, then I'd get the hint I think (but my ego would be splat on the floor).

If I got seemingly good excuses from many different women, I'd be seriously worried!.

LMC
6th-July-2005, 06:45 PM
I follow the excellent piece of advice I was given from asking a lovely teacher (female) "how do I extricate myself from someone who just keeps asking for the next dance?". The problem with the drink/rest excuse is that you run the risk of appearing REALLY rude if you don't then sit out at least one dance.

The advice was, when the person you want to avoid asks you for a dance, you say "sorry, but I promised it to...." and then go and grab the nearest random guy (whether you promised him a dance or not). Of course, if there are guys there that you know/trust/like, you can set them up as knights in white armour beforehand, which makes it even easier - and you don't necessarily have to tell them who it is that you want to avoid if it makes you feel bad.

MartinHarper
6th-July-2005, 06:55 PM
If someone wants me never to ask them to dance, they should ask me never to ask them to dance, and then I shall never ask them to dance (until I forget, that is). Reasons why are useful as feedback. They should avoid repeatedly turning me down in the forlorn hope that I will get the hint, as I won't.

If someone wants to decline one dance with me, they should decline that dance, and then I won't have that dance with them. Some women will decline a dance and then feel compelled to tell me about the state of their bladder, or whatever. Not being wildly interested in female bladders, this is unnecessary, but I appreciate the desire to be open.

Men who don't want to dance with me should say something simple and audible such as "No, I don't dance with guys". They should avoid bad Little Britain impersonations, schoolboy humour, sarcasm, or nervous laughter. It wastes my time, and makes it harder to tell when someone is saying "yes", particularly in busy venues.

I don't bear grudges. Partly this is because I'm a fantastic person, but mostly it's because I can't remember what people's names are, let alone whether they turned me down three weeks ago without first informing me of the state of their bladder.

Lynn
6th-July-2005, 06:57 PM
I rarely ask, cos I'm shy :blush: so haven't been refused, though there have been guys I've wanted to ask and I will have to get more proactive. So while I think I would prefer a straight answer, that might sting a bit so an 'excuse' would do. After all there would be lots of other better partners in the room that he would probably prefer to be dancing with anyway. :tears:

Andy McGregor
6th-July-2005, 07:12 PM
Sorry Miss Northants, but if you would turn someone down for an earlier refusal, you won't honestly be able to say to them "I never say no". :flower:I do never say no. Maybe Northants Girly could modify it to "I wouldn't say no to you" - makes it even more personal :wink:

Gadget
6th-July-2005, 09:53 PM
I don't bear grudges. Partly this is because I'm a fantastic person, but mostly it's because I can't remember what people's names are, let alone whether they turned me down three weeks ago without first informing me of the state of their bladder.
:rofl::yeah:
I am so glad I dance up here and not down south: I really don't like the "They did it to me, so I'm going to do it to them" attitude that seems to be put forward. :what:

Personally, I don't take any offense if a lady declines my asking of a dance: I'm asking them, not offering them. It's a question that can be answered with a simple "yes" or "no" - I don't need or want any more.

Aside from all the previous poster's reasons... I may be too sweaty. They may not like the track. They may think the floor is too crowded/empty. They may believe that they have to concentrate to dance with me and don't feel up to it. They may have seen me dance with someone I know well and think don't want to be put through that. They may have danced with me before and simply not like dancing with me. :)
Why should I puzzle over it? I could wynd together any number of conspiricy theorys about how it's a plot to deny me access to the recipie for secret sauce. But I know that the world does not revolve arround me and the reason for refusal could be a million things - none of them personal.

bigdjiver
6th-July-2005, 10:00 PM
...The advice was, when the person you want to avoid asks you for a dance, you say "sorry, but I promised it to...." and then go and grab the nearest random guy ...I have this vision of him saying "Sorry, but I promised ..." and a chain reaction rippling around the room, ending with the guy you just declined ...

Northants Girly
6th-July-2005, 10:39 PM
Sorry Miss Northants, but if you would turn someone down for an earlier refusal, you won't honestly be able to say to them "I never say no". :flower:Master ducasi - you are missing the point I was making (and taking this a tad too seriously)

Andy's "I never say no" was what one says to someone you ask to dance but refuses you - not to someone who one has already been asked to dance by and one has refused . . . . .

Just for the record, I hardly ever refuse I dance - the way I look at it is that its only max 5 mins of your life and so it won't kill you ;)

LMC
6th-July-2005, 10:40 PM
I have this vision of him saying "Sorry, but I promised ..." and a chain reaction rippling around the room, ending with the guy you just declined ...

:eek: :rofl:

Gojive
6th-July-2005, 10:47 PM
I have this vision of him saying "Sorry, but I promised ..." and a chain reaction rippling around the room, ending with the guy you just declined ...

:rofl:

ducasi
7th-July-2005, 12:25 AM
Master ducasi - you are missing the point I was making (and taking this a tad too seriously)

Andy's "I never say no" was what one says to someone you ask to dance but refuses you - not to someone who one has already been asked to dance by and one has refused . . . . .:D Sorry, I was just teasing. :devil:

But I didn't miss the point. If a guy refuses you and you say "I never say no", then in the future when he asks you you won't be able to refuse him out of spite.

But I'm sure you don't do that. :flower:

Just for the record, I hardly ever refuse I dance - the way I look at it is that its only max 5 mins of your life and so it won't kill you ;) I agree totally, although there's a woman out there who must have claimed at least half an hour of my life that I'd rather have spent with someone else. But life's like that... :shrug:

Gary
7th-July-2005, 03:02 AM
...
Personally, I don't take any offense if a lady declines my asking of a dance: I'm asking them, not offering them. It's a question that can be answered with a simple "yes" or "no" - I don't need or want any more.
....
:yeah: I don't need or want an excuse to salve my ego -- if you don't want to dance with me (for this song), that really is OK.

Just Wiggle
7th-July-2005, 09:14 AM
I prefer a polite "I'm sitting this one out" type answer.

I generally never refuse a dance although I have been known to avoid certain dancers when a really good track is on or I don't want to thrown around the dance floor like a piece of rubbish!

Someone a few months ago though really hacked me off by when I asked for a dance got up, then sat down again, got up and then said "no"....how rude is that?! Needless to say I haven't asked since!!

MartinHarper
7th-July-2005, 09:22 AM
Someone a few months ago though really hacked me off by when I asked for a dance got up, then sat down again, got up and then said "no"....how rude is that?!

How is that ruder than just saying "no"?

Pammy
7th-July-2005, 09:26 AM
I do never say no.

I'm confused. Where's Graham when you need him?

Is this a double negative? :confused:

I never say no - means never say no, so does I DO never say no means he does?

Andy, I must slap you on the wrist when I see you... :innocent:

MartinHarper
7th-July-2005, 09:40 AM
I never say no - means never say no, so does I DO never say no means he does?

"I do never say no" is equivalent to "I never say no". The "do" is just for emphasis.
"I don't never say no" would be a double negative, and equivalent to "I sometimes say no".

Pammy
7th-July-2005, 09:47 AM
"I don't never say no"

Oh don't you now!? :wink:

No, seriously, thanks for clearing that up and getting Andy off the hook; well one of the hooks anyway!

Pamster :grin:

Just Wiggle
7th-July-2005, 09:59 AM
How is that ruder than just saying "no"?

What do you mean?

It implies that said person was going to dance and then couldn't be bothered to get off their chair!

Much ruder that simply saying I'm sitting this one out!

MartinHarper
7th-July-2005, 10:28 AM
What do you mean?

In what way is saying "no" whilst standing up and sitting down again more rude than saying "no" and remaining sitting?


It implies that said person was going to dance and then couldn't be bothered to get off their chair!

Said person, from your telling, did get off their chair - twice. To my mind, if someone gets out of their chair, it shows that they are willing and able to get out of their chair. It seems you draw the opposite conclusion. What am I missing?

Rhythm King
7th-July-2005, 10:50 AM
At Hammersmith once, I was turned down 3 times in quick succession. I was so upset I nearly went home. This has set me thinking, if someone sees a person being turned down and is then asked by that person, is there an element of either "well if she/he has turned them down, there must be a reason" or "Why should I dance with that person - I don't want to be second/third choice, or whatever?"
Any thoughts/observations?

R-K

bigdjiver
7th-July-2005, 11:43 AM
The "just been turned down" situation is one I have not solved when there is an adjacent free lady. If I just walk away then it seems like "I want to dance, but I am not going to ask you." If you ask the adjacent lady there is an element of "second best". There has got to be a smart quip to salve this situation, but I have not found it yet.

Pammy
7th-July-2005, 11:54 AM
"second best"

Oh, I don't think anyone would feel second best in a situation like that. I wouldn't anyway. If it were a case that the lady who turned you down was rude, it gives the second lady the chance to say, without saying, "I'd gladly accept, he's a great guy", sort of thing. :grin:

Purple Sparkler
7th-July-2005, 12:05 PM
The "just been turned down" situation is one I have not solved when there is an adjacent free lady. If I just walk away then it seems like "I want to dance, but I am not going to ask you." If you ask the adjacent lady there is an element of "second best". There has got to be a smart quip to salve this situation, but I have not found it yet.

No need for a smart quip- just a compliment.

When I turn someone down and say I'm tired, it always is because I'm tired. Except once, when I'd just turned one guy down owing to genuine fatigue. But then a few seconds later I was asked by someone else and suddenly I had lots of energy. :blush: I did feel bad about it. :blush: :(

Lory
7th-July-2005, 12:07 PM
Of course, if there are guys there that you know/trust/like, you can set them up as knights in white armour beforehand,
:yeah: But I'm almost positive I can rely on some of the lovely male forumites, without having to have a prior arrangement? :flower: :hug:

Sheepman
7th-July-2005, 12:25 PM
The advice was, when the person you want to avoid asks you for a dance, you say "sorry, but I promised it to...." and then go and grab the nearest random guy (whether you promised him a dance or not). Of course, if there are guys there that you know/trust/like, you can set them up as knights in white armour beforehand Of course this only works if there are enough random guys/girls available!

But priming someone you can trust (and hopefully always like dancing with!) does help. Recently while dancing with one woman that I knew would linger for that second dance, I got the opportunity while facing a friend to mouth "help!" After she'd finished laughing, at the end of the track, she came over and "rescued" me. :flower:

I'm not keen on the use of "excuse" though, because if I do say no, it is for a reason, ie I need a rest, I hate the track, I need a drink, etc.
What is annoying is when I say "Just give me a few seconds for a drink." I grab some water, have a quick swig, but the woman has gone off dancing with someone else! :angry:

The huge majority of refusals that I get are from the people that I dance with most, in that case I would prefer a reason, though "I'm exhausted" feels much better than "I'm bored dancing with you"!!

Greg

Purple Sparkler
7th-July-2005, 12:39 PM
What is annoying is when I say "Just give me a few seconds for a drink." I grab some water, have a quick swig, but the woman has gone off dancing with someone else! :angry:

But if she hasn't heard you say 'give me a few seconds' and is loitering in the hope that that's what you meant, and then gets asked to dance by someone, what's a girl to do?

Besides, people don't always ask- I've had one guy frogmarch me on to the floor (took me a while to stop laughing but he's a good dancer so he could get away with it).

Less flattering was the (really not very pleasant to dance with) man who came up to me last night and said "I think you and I better dance, don't you?". What are you supposed to say to that? I'd been about to ask someone else. Pain in the neck! (And in the hip- for some reason he thinks it's OK to do the bump when doing the in-and-out-side-by-side thing).

JoC
7th-July-2005, 12:44 PM
What is annoying is when I say "Just give me a few seconds for a drink." I grab some water, have a quick swig, but the woman has gone off dancing with someone else! :angry:

I can understand that but maybe they didn't hear you properly and thought you said "sorry I really need a drink (and hence cannot dance)"?

Mind you if I thought there was any chance I'd misheard I'd wait just in case :flower: .

I did ask once and just sort of hear "blarble burble need drink" just before said person vanished to other side of the room. I stood for a few seconds wondering what he'd said and if he was coming back. Then decided he would, so waited and he did :clap:

I know I know, far too much 'benefit of the doubting' probably going on but I can't help it.

Lynn
7th-July-2005, 12:49 PM
Just for the record, I hardly ever refuse I dance - the way I look at it is that its only max 5 mins of your life and so it won't kill you ;) :yeah:

But I haven't come across a 'problem' person that I want to 'avoid', that might be different. I did once turn down a second dance with a guy as he had just a bit too much to drink to be practising drops :sick: and I did make an excuse as I didn't want to explain that in the middle of the dance floor. Otherwise its been genuine 'really tired' or wearing my flip flops :tears:

Trish
7th-July-2005, 01:36 PM
I voted for the straight "no thanks", but actually it depends on the situation. If it's someone I commonly dance with then "I'm too tired, another time" or "I need a drink", is fine. If for some reason someone hated dancing with me, then excuses are not going to improve my dancing, and I'd rather they said "I don't actually like dancing with you because you can't follow a lead/because you always yank my arm/tread on my toes/I find your moves too complicated/etc" - I don't think I do any of these things, I hope not anyway, but I'd rather know if I did. If someone said that to me I would ask them for one last chance, and ask them honestly at the end of the dance if I'd improved - if I hadn't then fair enough, I'd not ask them again!

As I've said before there's only one guy I've told I don't want to dance with permanently - a chronic yanker - and I'd asked him nicely not to do this for the last five or six previous dances and told him why I wouldn't dance with him. From what I gather from my friends, he is stil just as bad, and I still have a slightly dodgy shoulder that doesn't appreciate it, so I'm glad I did it really!

Andy McGregor
7th-July-2005, 02:13 PM
I think that the kind of guy that is likely to respond to this survey is not usually the kind of guy a lady would need to give a straight 'no'. Most of the guys on here are experienced dancers and, at least the ones I know, are not creepy or pervy. I've had negative feedback given to me by ladies in a positive way which has changed what I do when I dance. And I appreciate the feedback, usually changing the way I dance as a result - my initial reaction on receiving this feedback is always surprise and a little hurt, but after I've had time to think I really am greateful for the honest response.

But ladies do need to consider the type of guy when going for the honest approach. Picture this scenario, pervy guy asks pretty young girl to dance. She answers honestly "sorry, I don't want to dance with you because you give me the creeps" :what:

Maybe there should have been an option in the survey that reads "I am a pervert and I would like to be told the real reason when a lady turns me down".

bigdjiver
8th-July-2005, 10:37 AM
...But ladies do need to consider the type of guy when going for the honest approach. Picture this scenario, pervy guy asks pretty young girl to dance. She answers honestly "sorry, I don't want to dance with you because you give me the creeps" :what:

Maybe there should have been an option in the survey that reads "I am a pervert and I would like to be told the real reason when a lady turns me down".Unfortunately what or who gives some ladies the creeps is a positive attraction for others. The "why" may also be out of the "creeps" control. The guy may look like someone that harmed the lady as a child, or may just have been born with the standard Hollywood "evil" look. In either case it is out of the control of both parties. In Utopia the lady will accept, and overcome her prejudices, but usually a simply accepted "No thank-you" is the best solution.

JoC
8th-July-2005, 01:36 PM
When does this poll close? I notice at the moment for the men 'no thanks' has it, and for the ladies, the non-personal excuse has it.

Furthermore, what conclusion, if any, can we draw from this...? :D

Overall it looks like a mixture of repsonses so whatever your rejection line, you run the risk of upsetting the rejectee. Perhaps colour badges could be worn on the right arm to indicate preferred method of rejection? (With similar coding system on left arm to indicate preferred method of romantic rejection).

My information t-shirt is already full. :tears:

Andy McGregor
8th-July-2005, 01:39 PM
My information t-shirt is already full.Of what? :devil:

KatieR
8th-July-2005, 01:44 PM
Okay then, what do you do when you have a seriously creepy guy that actually hassles you until you dance with them to get them off your back and then end up totally freaked out by the experience and would actually consider leaving before having to dance with them again?

bigdjiver
8th-July-2005, 02:17 PM
Okay then, what do you do when you have a seriously creepy guy that actually hassles you until you dance with them to get them off your back and then end up totally freaked out by the experience and would actually consider leaving before having to dance with them again?I see an opening for a new crew category, an official "Big Bertha", haltosis and yanking essential requirements, the ability to offer "constructive" criticism desirable. Tip her the wink and she hassles the creep for a dance (or two).

MartinHarper
8th-July-2005, 03:53 PM
At this point in time, I see that 40% of women would prefer that people still dance with them, even if they don't want to. By contrast less than 5% of men feel the same way. "Clearly", the men on this forum are better at coping with rejection than female forumites. Equally "clearly", men are more altruistic and empathic in their approach to dancing than their female counterparts.

This highly scientific and thoroughly researched finding will no doubt completely destroy the theory that men have "fragile egos", or "lack empathy".

ChrisA
8th-July-2005, 03:58 PM
Furthermore, what conclusion, if any, can we draw from this...? :D

Well, the clear conclusion for me is that as usual, men prefer to be told the truth, and, also as usual, men are expected to be telepathic, in order to know whether to tell the truth or not.

:whistle:

Andy McGregor
8th-July-2005, 04:12 PM
Okay then, what do you do when you have a seriously creepy guy that actually hassles you until you dance with them to get them off your back and then end up totally freaked out by the experience and would actually consider leaving before having to dance with them again?I think this problem arises because you are told at many classes "always say yes when asked to dance". Outside the dance world ladies have developed defences which cope pretty well with creepy guys. The answer is to deploy them in response to creepy guys at dance classes - respond to creeps the way you usually do - they must be used to it and will, hopefully, respond the way they usually do.

JoC
8th-July-2005, 05:13 PM
Of what? :devil:
You know how to make a little girl :blush:

JoC
8th-July-2005, 05:39 PM
men are expected to be telepathic, in order to know whether to tell the truth or not.

:whistle:
This is not an unreasonable expectation is it? That's one of the prerequisites in job spec for being my assistant :innocent:

Andy McGregor
8th-July-2005, 06:16 PM
This is not an unreasonable expectation is it? Now there's a question that ChrisA couldn't fail to understand - might it not need another positive vs negative combination to make it unintelligble to the rest of us? :confused: :whistle:

JoC
11th-July-2005, 01:30 PM
Now there's a question that ChrisA couldn't fail to understand - might it not need another positive vs negative combination to make it unintelligble to the rest of us? :confused: :whistle:
That comment was not not unnecessary :tears:

stewart38
12th-July-2005, 12:03 PM
Interesting more women want an excuse rather then a the men

I want a excuse

No thanks is just rude

ChrisA
12th-July-2005, 12:25 PM
"No thanks" is just rude
If I ask someone to dance, and she really doesn't want to dance with me, there will be a reason, but I don't think it's polite to insist that she tells me.

I might say something like "would you mind telling me why you don't want to dance with me", and she would then have the option to explain.

But I think it's rude to expect people to have to justify themselves, whereas it's polite to leave people with the option.

This has nothing to do with the situations where she hates the track, or needs a drink.. that's easy to deal with in comparison.

stewart38
12th-July-2005, 12:36 PM
If I ask someone to dance, and she really doesn't want to dance with me, there will be a reason, but I don't think it's polite to insist that she tells me.

I might say something like "would you mind telling me why you don't want to dance with me", and she would then have the option to explain.

But I think it's rude to expect people to have to justify themselves, whereas it's polite to leave people with the option.

This has nothing to do with the situations where she hates the track, or needs a drink.. that's easy to deal with in comparison.


Who said id ask why ?. A no thanks to me is just rude. Im not going to then stand there and ask why she said no thanks

Everyone has a right to stay no but no thanks im tired (even if thats not the case) or no thanks you smell too much. I think is better

ChrisA
12th-July-2005, 12:57 PM
Who said id ask why ?
I didn't say anything about what you might do, I said


I might say something like "would you mind telling me why you don't want to dance with me"

Notice the "might", too - it wouldn't always be appropriate.

But I was suggesting that the rudeness is in expecting someone to justify themselves, rather than in saying "no thanks".


A no thanks to me is just rude.
Yes, you've said that before. You haven't said why you think so.


Im not going to then stand there and ask why she said no thanks
I'm not saying anything about what you should do, that's entirely up to you :flower:


Everyone has a right to stay no but no thanks im tired (even if thats not the case)
If it's not the case, then would you be offended if she got up immediately and danced with someone else? If so, you're effectively making her justify herself for not wanting to dance with you, and then expecting her not to dance with someone that she does want to dance with.

That seems more rude to me, somehow.


or no thanks you smell too much. I think is better
Yes, if that's her reason for not wanting to dance with me, I agree this would be the ideal response. Because then I can fix the problem, and then she might want to dance with me.

But as we've heard before, many people wouldn't have the confidence to say that. Whereas a "no thanks" is perhaps a little easier.

bigdjiver
12th-July-2005, 01:09 PM
Who said id ask why ?. A no thanks to me is just rude. Im not going to then stand there and ask why she said no thanks

Everyone has a right to stay no but no thanks im tired (even if thats not the case) or no thanks you smell too much. I think is betterI do not see that you have either the right to expect her to tell the truth or to invent a lie. People have their reasons, live with it.

Andy McGregor
12th-July-2005, 01:23 PM
I do not see that you have either the right to expect her to tell the truth or to invent a lie. People have their reasons, live with it.Bigdjiver is right. But this is a thread about how we'd like it, not what we have the right to expect. Personally I'd like a 'yes'. Failing that I'd like to be left with a shred of dignity. A simple 'no' doesn't really leave me with that. If it were a night club a request for a dance leaves so many other things unsaid that a 'yes' answer could be seen as acceptance of those unsaid things. At a dance class an offer of a dance is just that, nothing else. So, IMHO (as I've said before), it's personal or at least will be taken as being personal. In my opinion, an attempt to depersonalise the 'no' is good manners, no matter how transparently obvious the excuse is.

As we've seen on the survey at the start of this thread, 'no' and 'no thank you' can cause upset to some people. Those who are not upset seem to argue that it's wrong to be upset - which is wrong (but I don't expect being told so will bother the 'not upset' group). What's wrong with telling a little white lie? Who hasn't told a white lie to save someone's blushes. It takes a few seconds of your life and, on average, reduces the level of upset in the dance world. Those who might be upset by a simple 'no' aren't upset and those who'd be happy with a simple no aren't upset either :flower:

ChrisA
12th-July-2005, 01:38 PM
In my opinion, an attempt to depersonalise the 'no' is good manners, no matter how transparently obvious the excuse is.
In my opinion, if it's transparently obvious, I think it's extremely bad manners. It amounts to:

"Not only do I not want to dance with you, I am going to insult your intelligence with this blatant fabrication".


Those who are not upset seem to argue that it's wrong to be upset - which is wrong (but I don't expect being told so will bother the 'not upset' group).
If I'm turned down, then I'm upset. Rejection, for whatever reason, is never nice, and anyone that is really completely unaffected when it happens probably doesn't feel much anyway.

So I don't think there can be many in the "not upset" group. But I'm not as upset as I am if, in addition, I'm lied to. Or indeed if they make it clear during the dance that they're hating it.

Fortunately, it doesn't happen very often :whistle:


What's wrong with telling a little white lie?
White lies are fine to save blushes in certain circumstances. But they have knock on effects in the dance world - they lead to huge amounts of agonising (do I/don't I... what should I say?... bugger I have to sit this out now.... Maybe I should hide outside...), so they're not as isolated and cost-free as you imply.

Andy McGregor
12th-July-2005, 02:06 PM
"Not only do I not want to dance with you, I am going to insult your intelligence with this blatant fabrication".But we can always choose to believe the white lie, no matter how bad a fib teller the considerate person is who's telling the white lie. I no more find it an insult to my intelligence than being told "that was a fabulous meal you cooked" or "nice shirt" or any other display of etiquette.

LMC
12th-July-2005, 02:15 PM
White lies are fine to save blushes in certain circumstances. But they have knock on effects in the dance world - they lead to huge amounts of agonising (do I/don't I... what should I say?... bugger I have to sit this out now.... Maybe I should hide outside...), so they're not as isolated and cost-free as you imply.

:clap:

Sits quietly in corner (next to fan) trying to be less sensitive and practising saying "No thank you"

JoC
12th-July-2005, 05:58 PM
So is there really much 'no-ing' at strangers going on around the country?

I really can't wait to come down to englandshire and try out some different venues and meet and dance with some different dancers (not that I could ever tire of the lovely Scottish men :hug: , just variety is the spice and all that). But am I going to return home a crushed shell of a rejected wee thing?

I hope the reality is that no-ing is still a minority sport.

drathzel
12th-July-2005, 06:06 PM
I said the same in the thread talking about being let down when dating someone....... Tell me straight. I would prefer a no than an excuse or a lie. :hug:

ChrisA
12th-July-2005, 10:07 PM
So is there really much 'no-ing' at strangers going on around the country?
Practically none, I would guess.

I didn't have strangers in mind at all when I started this thread - I really struggle to imagine a situation when I'd turn down a dance with somone I'd never danced with before.

Even recently, when I'd never danced with someone before, and my right arm was quite badly injured, I just said, "sure, if you don't mind me using just one arm".

This is much more about those rare occasions when you know exactly why you don't want to dance with someone - they perv, stink, or yank, probably, and you've already suffered much more than enough.