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DianaS
6th-July-2005, 02:57 PM
I know this has come up time and time again, but there's one man I really don't like dancing with, he doesn't do any thing wrong, but I feel so uncomfortable with him its untrue.

After around a year of dancing with him on demand, (I never ask him), and he often comments how I don't smile with him, I have decided just to say no.

Its unfair, its unjust, but why do it, when I just hate it so much?

Pammy
6th-July-2005, 03:10 PM
I think if you dislike the experience that much, it's fairer to him to say no than yes. If someone really gives you that gut feeling that just tells you it's not right, then it's not wrong to say no. This isn't a decision you've come to lightly; you've thought long and hard about it, and tried, but it just doesn't work for you. :)

Dreadful Scathe
6th-July-2005, 03:15 PM
he may well be unhappy to be turned down but you ARE unhappy when you say yes!

Easy decision to make really. No point in you feeling guilty about it :)

Danielle
6th-July-2005, 03:21 PM
i totally agree, you have to go with your instincts!! obviously be polite when saying no, but if you really don't enjoy it, don't do it!! i'd rather someone said no to me than go their friends "oh no here she comes again" and look miserable through the dance!
(generally speaking your instincts are spot on so if you feel there's something wrong there i'd definately avoid him!!)

Lory
6th-July-2005, 03:40 PM
Its unfair, its unjust, but why do it, when I just hate it so much?

Diana, I know exactly how you feel, :hug: I had exactly the same thing and it got to the stage where, every night I went dancing I would spend my time scanning the room, dreading to see this one particular guy :sick: and I consciously spent most of my evening looking over my shoulder, exiting the dance floor to the opposite side of the room, making sure I was constantly holding a drink when I wasn't dancing, just in case he caught me off guard and invariably, he did! :tears:

So after reading some encouraging posts on this forum, I took the advise of many and just said No! ;)

It took a hell of a lot of courage and I was absolutely dreading being asked for an explanation, I'd even rehearsed, over and over, what I would say but 'nothing' seemed to sound acceptable. Thankfully, it turned out to be a lot easier than i'd expected. :nice:

I just said, politely but firmly 'No thank you', with no explanation and no excuse and he did look miffed but he didn't persist!

And he hasn't asked me since! :clap:

Andy McGregor
6th-July-2005, 03:51 PM
I have a little speech I give about saying no. It goes something like this.

This is a dance class and we're all here dance - if you don't want to dance you're in the wrong place. So when someone asks you to dance you should usually say yes - that's what you came here to do.

Guys, you should always say yes as it takes courage for a lady to ask a guy to dance, especially the first time they do it. If you say no they might never ask another guy ever again! Guys, if you need a break and don't want to dance I advise you to hide outside rather than contemplate turning down a woman as they'll talk about you in the loos...

Ladies, please try to say yes, but you don't have to if you really have a problem with a particular guy. Please bear in mind that if you do say a straight "no" or even "no thank you" it's going to be taken as personal - because it is! You want to dance, that's why you're at a dance class, so when you say you don't want to dance with a guy it's that guy in particular you don't want to dance with. On the other hand, you shouldn't have to dance with somebody you've learnt from experience that really don't want to be near. But, when refusing, please say something to the guy that leaves a guy with his dignity. Something like, "I'm just taking a break" or "I'm a bit thirsty so I'm going to miss this one and take a drink", etc. - whatever you do, don't ever say yes as an easy option. After a few refusals like this the guy will cotton on and stop asking you - hopefully! Be very careful about turning down a guy flat or being rude to him as you're bound to keep getting him in the rotation during the lesson and it could make things uncomfortable. Be nice but be firm.

Trousers
6th-July-2005, 04:01 PM
Diana

I have always been anti establishment on this - Say No if you want!

Sweaty guys will get the hint, Sleazebags may bugger off, and annoying toe rags may not ask you again.

Just be straight with your own rules if you inderstand me. (if u say no to sweaty guys you should say no to them all etc)

And if you turn a guy down 'cos 'You need a rest' don't take the next guy out for the same tune that is just rude.

But other than that say no if you have to!
Remember this will work in reverse - Say No too often and guys will stop asking then you will have to do all the leg work.

MartinHarper
6th-July-2005, 04:43 PM
Sweaty guys will get the hint, Sleazebags may bugger off, and annoying toe rags may not ask you again.

On the other hand, Diana's talking about a guy who, she says, does nothing wrong. So while she feels very uncomfortable around him, he's not doing anything to cause that discomfort. That's a different situation to the ones you are describing.

Pammy
6th-July-2005, 04:51 PM
On the other hand, Diana's talking about a guy who, she says, does nothing wrong. So while she feels very uncomfortable around him, he's not doing anything to cause that discomfort. That's a different situation to the ones you are describing.

He obviously does something wrong as he brings out that reaction in her that makes Diana feel very uncomfortable. Normally, women tend to be quite soft, and men that they don't necessarily find attractive don't provoke the "uncomfortable" feeling that she is mentioning. I know what she means about someone not necessarily doing anything wrong, but you feel like they could at any moment, if that makes sense.

There's no need to be rude for no reason, but there's also no need to compromise yourself by putting yourself in an uncomfortable situation. You are afterall there to have fun and I'm sure if there is nothing wrong with this guy, he'll have plenty of other ladies to choose from at the venue. :cheers:

Pammy
6th-July-2005, 04:59 PM
Be nice but be firm.

Don't listen to anyone who signs off a post like that! :whistle:

Andy McGregor
6th-July-2005, 05:04 PM
Don't listen to anyone who signs off a post like that! :whistle:
How's this?


Stand Up & Take It.... :confused:

Pammy
6th-July-2005, 05:08 PM
How's this?

:confused:

Nobody listens to me anyway - you know that! :wink:

Trousers
6th-July-2005, 05:23 PM
On the other hand, Diana's talking about a guy who, she says, does nothing wrong. So while she feels very uncomfortable around him, he's not doing anything to cause that discomfort. That's a different situation to the ones you are describing.

I dunno MH I think as long as you stick to ya rules - i.e. not gonna dance with scary men or I'm not gonna dance with smelly sweaty men etc its fair. This guy seems to fall in to the scary uncomfortable group - There was a woman danced around the twickers area scared the proverbials out of me but she'd always hunt me down - For a guy NO is not an option is it I would just grab the nearest woman and say 'Save Me' or just leg it to the bar/loo/car park some times all three - 'Just to be sure'.

But the refusing and then accepting on the same tune is impolite regardless of who u are in my book. It can be a useful tool however to give someone the hump to stop them coming back I suppose.

bigdjiver
6th-July-2005, 05:39 PM
I am still grateful that anybody wants to dance with me, but it seems there are some ladies that do. If someone that does not want to dance with me says yes, because she feels she ought to, then she is depriving at least the two of us of the opportunity of having a dance that we will both enjoy.

Please, just say "No thank you".

Mr Cool
6th-July-2005, 06:18 PM
I am still grateful that anybody wants to dance with me, but it seems there are some ladies that do. If someone that does not want to dance with me says yes, because she feels she ought to, then she is depriving at least the two of us of the opportunity of having a dance that we will both enjoy.

Please, just say "No thank you".

I for one only want to dance with ladies who really want to dance with me. If they dont want to dance 100% i would rather they said no. I always make eye contact prior to asking a lady to dance if her body language is right and she obviosly wants me to ask her I do, if she looks the other way or gives me a negative response I do not ask simple.
However as a man I pride myself in never refusing a lady. There are occasions I will try to aviod certain ladies who I find difficult to dance with, but I never say no. I will always make an effort and do not just go through the motions which i consier rude after all it is only three minutes. :waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

MartinHarper
6th-July-2005, 07:23 PM
Men that they don't necessarily find attractive don't provoke the "uncomfortable" feeling that she is mentioning.

I needed to work on this one, but I think I understand it now:

Men that women necessarilly find attractive = Viktor.
Men that women don't necessarilly find attractive = everyone except Viktor.
Therefore, everyone except Viktor doesn't provoke an uncomfortable feeling.
Therefore, only Viktor provokes uncomfortable feelings in women!

....

Umm, could you try again? I think the line's broken at this end.

Andreas
6th-July-2005, 08:33 PM
I have a little speech I give about saying no. It goes something like this.

This is a dance class and we're all here dance - if you don't want to dance you're in the wrong place. So when someone asks you to dance you should usually say yes - that's what you came here to do.

Guys, you should always say yes as it takes courage for a lady to ask a guy to dance, especially the first time they do it. If you say no they might never ask another guy ever again! Guys, if you need a break and don't want to dance I advise you to hide outside rather than contemplate turning down a woman as they'll talk about you in the loos...

Ladies, please try to say yes, but you don't have to if you really have a problem with a particular guy. Please bear in mind that if you do say a straight "no" or even "no thank you" it's going to be taken as personal - because it is! You want to dance, that's why you're at a dance class, so when you say you don't want to dance with a guy it's that guy in particular you don't want to dance with. On the other hand, you shouldn't have to dance with somebody you've learnt from experience that really don't want to be near. But, when refusing, please say something to the guy that leaves a guy with his dignity. Something like, "I'm just taking a break" or "I'm a bit thirsty so I'm going to miss this one and take a drink", etc. - whatever you do, don't ever say yes as an easy option. After a few refusals like this the guy will cotton on and stop asking you - hopefully! Be very careful about turning down a guy flat or being rude to him as you're bound to keep getting him in the rotation during the lesson and it could make things uncomfortable. Be nice but be firm.

Ooohhhh

I would not agree with "guys, you always HAVE to say yes" and "ladies PLEASE say yes". To be totally honset,this is just plain offensive to make such a distinction between guys and girls! :angry: Also, I am sure, as much as one loves one's ego and dignity, most people prefer the truth over an excuse which is easily identified as such. Let alone that one of those excuses will have the guy come back again and again and again and again ... Sorry, I obviously disagree with you there, I think. ;)

In general the rule is: SAY YES! Because it does take courage and effort to ask!

Considering the case that got the thread started: If you really hate it, say NO. BUT also tell him why you say no! "A slap in the face is less painful than repeated stabs in the back." If you feel like it is asked too much that you dance with him then you should have the DECENCY to also tell him why and that there is no point for him to ask again. This is the courage that you should have if you are 'impolite' enough to turn down a request.

There are cases when I think "how can you enjoy dancing with me if I can't enjoy dancing with you" but I personally would not turn somebody down for that reason. After all, it is just a couple of minutes of my time. (hears people say 'why should I make that effort in my leisure' :D)

:flower:

RogerR
6th-July-2005, 08:43 PM
If you feel that strongly then you should politely but firmly say NO, then having said no not dance with someone else for that track. Maybe even a conversation along the lines of "Our styles are so different I'd rather not thank You" would put you in control and firmly and politely eliminate the future problem. If its just a You and Him thing then you need him there just to release another man to dance with you! If you remove all the men that someone doesn't like much then there would be so few you'd never get a dance. Good dancers are made by the partners they dance with. I still remember the partners of my beginner days with great respect.

Girls are excelent at sending mixed messages 1/ there's the Yes I'll dance with you then I'll never look at you or follow you lead. and there's 2/ the smile broadly when you've really enjoyed a dance or equally when a dance was so horrid you were really scared. that can both be seen often even by casual observers of the dance floor.

AN alternative avoidance technique I learned from a DJ / Teacher moderator here is to throw a towel over you head if he approaches!

Gadget
6th-July-2005, 10:18 PM
He obviously does something wrong as he brings out that reaction in her that makes Diana feel very uncomfortable. Not necissaraly: some people just 'creep you out' - Other people may be fine with them, but for some reason, they just raise your heckes.

What do you want out of your dancing? Fun? Improvement? If I dance with a more 'difficult' dancer, then I use it as an opportunity for 'improvement' rather than purley for fun. {erm... actually I also "use" good dancers to experiment on as well :blush:} No reason you can't do both - I just tend to bias my practice towards technique and clarity with dancers that I find need a clearer lead. :cool:

latinlover
7th-July-2005, 02:11 PM
If you really hate it, say NO. BUT also tell him why you say no! "A slap in the face is less painful than repeated stabs in the back."
:

:yeah:

Andreas I agree.
but I don't see why you have to tell him 'why'.
never explain,never apologise!
I agree with Lory's technique of a simple "No thank you".

And actually saying 'no thank you' and then dancing with someone else,whilst a bit cowardly, perhaps, gives a fairly clear signal to most people!

an excuse is simply fudging the issue and will probably bring the guy back again & again, because we can a thick-headed species who fail to understand anything more subtle than a flying brick!

you need to stop the guy asking you or otherwise every evening he is there will be potential torture!


Andy Mcgregor's points are quite correct when we're talking about new people , beginners or people you don't know, but that's clearly not the case here.

At the end of the day you are there to enjoy yourself,and this 'christian' idea of putting someone else's feelings before your own can be taken too far, I think
it's only dancing, after all, not bereavement counselling!!

DianaS
11th-July-2005, 11:28 AM
Thanks or the advice I think he just plays in a way that I'm not comfortable with and although theres nothing wrong with what he does it doesn't suit me... and I don't get used to it either. Its got to happen so I'll just keep saying no and although he's quite pushy I'll keep saying it!


On a different note on Saturday I sat out the last hour or so at the back of the room quietly (period problems don't ask!) A guy asked me to dance (never met him and don't know him!) and I lifted my feet that were on a chair and pointed to my scholls slip-ons.

He shouted back put your dance shoes back on then... and begrudgignly I did warning him I had no co-ordination this night, (I'd danced appaulingly ALL night) so so it was at this own risk!

What a sweetie he steered me so carefully
He was around the tables with the forumites, so if that was you, you made my night cas I was feeling cr!p! :flower: :flower:

David Bailey
11th-July-2005, 12:07 PM
(I'd danced appaulingly ALL night)
We did OK as I recall, sans splashing any way - on the other hand, if that standard is "appalling", then :worthy: can't wait to see what you're like when on form!

JoC
11th-July-2005, 06:18 PM
I always make eye contact prior to asking a lady to dance if her body language is right and she obviosly wants me to ask her I do, if she looks the other way.

There was me thinking it was easier if I don't always look because otherwise I might be happily smiling away, standing with open arms to welcome my dance partner who promptly sails straight past me to the lady standing behind, and I feel like a reet lemon!
May have to rethink this strategy methinks, heck it's tough being the demure type. :rolleyes:

Ah I see a new thread opportunity...

jockey
12th-July-2005, 12:02 AM
I really loathe being refused a dance...one refusal can spoil a whole evening for me; I had a great time at Southport and some great dances but a forumite refused me and it really upset me. What"s more I am not a sleazebag and IMHO can give a top dancer a top dance yet its always the top class girls that turn me down. What are they saying.."you are not good enought to dance with me" .
I have just been scanning the best/worst refusal lines thread and have this one to offer as the best/worst refusal line in dance: "may I have a dance?" "Oh, I"m just looking after my boyfriend"s bag whilst he is dancing".
That young lady spoiled MJC for me, yet I know her and her man very well and often have a chat with them.
Do they think we have no feelings? Have these women never been refused themselves.
Think on this lassies: when you are doing your fabulous demonstrations there are afew of us men in the audience thinking .."yes very nice but you refused me the other day you....so and so".
If this is going on with other guys then the ladies in question will be building up a good deal of subliminal resentment in their "fan base (ha!)". I"ve danced with a lot of women who are in the same ballpark abilitywise who give me a real buzz and they are delighted to dance with me.
Then there are top showcase dancers who dance with "the masses" e.g., Nicky Haslam (and all the Australians, actually).
It doesn"t take two degrees in social science to work out what is going on here: status seeking. Good old "us and them". It starts with not doing classes, turning up just for the freestyle, hobnobbing out the back with their chums, congregating in certain areas, refusing or dodging dances, and courting teachers.
When I go dancing I am driven by music not by ambition.

Andy McGregor
12th-July-2005, 09:21 AM
It doesn"t take two degrees in social science to work out what is going on here: status seeking. Good old "us and them". It starts with not doing classes, turning up just for the freestyle, hobnobbing out the back with their chums, congregating in certain areas, refusing or dodging dances, and courting teachers. :yeah:

And it's ultimate conclusion is not dancing at all because you're too good to dance with anyone!

Speaking personally, I don't get turned down flat by the fab dancers who are the way Jockey describes: not any more! I know who they are and each time I look over their way they manage to look busy - so I don't put myself in that particular firing line and just ask someone else to dance :whistle: I've known some of these dancers for years. Sometimes, as I'm leaving the venue at the end of a night I might even initiate a conversation that starts "we never seem to dance together any more" - it's a game I play, mostly with myself :wink:

My advice to Jockey is the same as I give everyone else. When they say "I'm just taking a break/rest/drink/, looking after friends bag, etc", say "please come and grab me for a dance when you've finished your break/rest/drink, looking after friends bag, etc". It puts the ball back in their court and if it's not returned you know precisely where you stand - no matter how demeaning that feels it's better than being turned down in the same off-hand manner a second time. Some women I know have been resting for years! :tears:

David Bailey
12th-July-2005, 09:40 AM
I really loathe being refused a dance...one refusal can spoil a whole evening for me
:yeah: Although to be fair, women feel exactly the same way, I don't think this is a gender issue, more of a "selfish dancer" issue.

I've said it before - the really top-flight dancers are the humble ones who will dance, gracefully and elegantly, with anyone. Because they know they always have something to learn, and are always open to new dances.

There are some "reasonably good" dancers, but who IMO will stay at the "reasonably good" level forever, precisely because they're not as good as they think they are. And one of the reasons they're not as good as they think they are is precisely because they won't dance with new people - this lack of openness, and a limited set of regular partners, means they won't progress.


It doesn"t take two degrees in social science to work out what is going on here: status seeking. Good old "us and them". It starts with not doing classes, turning up just for the freestyle, hobnobbing out the back with their chums, congregating in certain areas, refusing or dodging dances, and courting teachers.
Courting them? Oo-err missus, I'm shocked :)

I agree with much of what you say. But to a point this reflects the lack of relevant teaching at the experienced-intermediate level in Ceroc; the level of support for this type of dancer is IMO pretty poor.

So I'll admit I don't do classes often, but I would do more so if there were more classes I could learn from - I don't want to learn another 4 weird moves I'll never use...

So for many experienced intermediates, the freestyle is the only part of a class worth going to.

That aside, a big :yeah: to your points about Us and Them :)

stewart38
12th-July-2005, 10:05 AM
:yeah:

Andreas I agree.
but I don't see why you have to tell him 'why'.
never explain,never apologise!
I agree with Lory's technique of a simple "No thank you".

And actually saying 'no thank you' and then dancing with someone else,whilst a bit cowardly, perhaps, gives a fairly clear signal to most people!




You dont have to say why but then to go and dance with someone else is of course very rude. It of course depends if its the first time he has asked you or the 25th

I had my eye on someone for last dance the other day and i was intercepted by someone else who then proceeded to tell me how bored I looked etc etc when we danced ( i probably was)

Ive never been so tempted to just walk of the dance floor but she is on the black list now but how I so wish id just said NO.

stewart38
12th-July-2005, 10:10 AM
I really loathe being refused a dance...one refusal can spoil a whole evening for me; I had a great time at Southport and some great dances but a forumite refused me and it really upset me. What"s more I am not a sleazebag and IMHO can give a top dancer a top dance yet its always the top class girls that turn me down. What are they saying.."you are not good enought to dance with me" .



One forumite turns me down every other time I ask but she is a great dancer so i keep asking :wink:

LMC
12th-July-2005, 10:21 AM
You dont have to say why but then to go and dance with someone else is of course very rude.

:yeah:

Which is a real dilemma if someone asks for too many dances in an evening or insists on "holding on" to you when you actually fancy a change of partner - no offence and all that, but I don't want to dance with someone more than twice in an evening or twice in a row unless a) they are a fantastic dancer or b) I fancy them. Unfortunately, I haven't yet been lucky enough to be asked to dance more than twice in a row by anyone fitting into either of these categories (well, only at one event and it don't count and I ain't telling) - only the people who I really wish would go and find some other woman :rolleyes:

But why should I have to lie about needing a rest/drink/cool down when I want to dance - just not with them at that point in time :mad: (doesn't mean I don't want to dance with them ever again)

MartinHarper
12th-July-2005, 10:31 AM
"May I have a dance?"
"Oh, I"m just looking after my boyfriend"s bag whilst he is dancing"
"Oh - ok. May I have the next one then?"
"Sure"
(commence 2-3 mins of small talk here)

Alternatively (but this would never happen):
"May I have a dance?"
"Oh, I"m just looking after my boyfriend"s bag whilst he is dancing"
"Oh - ok. May I have the next one then?"
"No. As far as you're concerned, I'm looking after his bag for the rest of my life."
"Weird... most guys I know only take one bag out dancing."
(run away here)

robd
12th-July-2005, 10:34 AM
I had my eye on someone for last dance the other day and i was intercepted by someone else who then proceeded to tell me how bored I looked etc etc when we danced ( i probably was)


On thing I always try to do is avoid looking bored even if that particular dance is excruciatingly tedious (as an unfortunate majority of last night's dances were). I still recall asking 2 particular ladies at my regular venue and, yes there was a significant difference between the levels of skill and experience of myself (lower) and themselves at that point (and still now come to that) but both of them looked so bored and wishing they weren't here so to speak that it absolutely ruined whatever optimism and confidence I had for that particular dance. Consequently I have not asked either of them for a dance since and will not do so. The fact that I often see one of these ladies on the sidelines during freestyle despite the fact that she is undoubtedly a skilled dancer suggests other men may have made the same decision.

Robert

robd
12th-July-2005, 10:36 AM
"Weird... most guys I know only take one bag out dancing."
(run away here)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Andy McGregor
12th-July-2005, 10:46 AM
So I'll admit I don't do classes often, but I would do more so if there were more classes I could learn from - I don't want to learn another 4 weird moves I'll never use...
Mistake you make. Learn you more than teacher tells. Beginners lesson you do, great dancer become.

Every lesson is a learning opportunity. If I get the chance, I get to classes in time to do the beginners lesson as well as the other lessons and I usually get something out of it. It's been said before, you never stop learning.

LMC
12th-July-2005, 10:54 AM
Mistake you make. Learn you more than teacher tells. Beginners lesson you do, great dancer become.

Every lesson is a learning opportunity. If I get the chance, I get to classes in time to do the beginners lesson as well as the other lessons and I usually get something out of it. It's been said before, you never stop learning.

:yeah:

I know I'm only just beyond beginner, which is why I maybe still find the classes really useful for improving technique, concentrating on following (rather than worrying about "the move") and for just 'warming up'!

Also, to get back on topic it gives you a great idea of who you might want to avoid later :D :devil:

Re: rudeness - I got asked to dance by someone last night who frankly, I wish hadn't bothered - I had plenty of partners without him being "nice to a wallflower" - even tho' I had been sat out for a couple to cool down! But dancing with a guy who seems to have just asked you out of politeness or pity and doesn't seem to be putting his all into it is just as depressing as being turned down :mad: I shall be saying no next time, he's an intermediate so his ego should be able to take it (although I'm not sure mine will as it will be my first ever "straight" no-excuse refusal)

robd
12th-July-2005, 11:01 AM
I have luckily enough not yet been refused a dance nor refused anyone myself. I cannot think of an instance where I would refuse anyone a single dance though if someone with whom I had not enjoyed a dance asked me to stay on for a second dance I might think of an excuse quickly. I have yet to be refused myself principally because I tend to play it safe with my asking, picking people I know are likely to say yes and avoiding the more skilled ladies, partly as I am not yet confident enough in my abilities to give them a dance equal to their abilities and partly because there's usually no shortage of men waiting to ask most of these ladies anyway. I may have to change this approach and risk some rejections though on the basis of last night's experience. I feel my abilities are progressing fairly well and though I still make lots of mistakes (or experimental moves maybe) in freestyle I can usually keep to the beat and flow reasonably well. So many of last night's partners (not beginners for whom you would make allowances) would not keep time and could not be made to keep time that it made the whole dance very difficult to lead. Lack of arm tension from many ladies didn't help either. I know the leader leads and that he has the responsibility for the dance but if women are basically doing their own thing and not recognising any lead short of manhandling them into the desired positions then it's a bit of a lost cause. Would be interested to see how the legendary Viktor dealt with some of these ladies. I've gone off topic a bit, frustration from last night I guess but I do remember at my first classes in January not wanting to ask people until I had improved to such a point that I could give them a reasonable dance. Some of my partners last night clearly don't feel the same obligation.

I should say as well that the layout of the venue can play a big part in giving people confidence to ask. At my regular venue Cambridge you cannot leave the dance floor without passing the 'line' - so anyone sat on the line is pretty much open to asking and putting yourself on the line makes it clear you are open to offers. On my occasional visits to Peterborough the layout of the venue means there isn't really a single place you can put yourself to make clear you are available and many of the tables are circular leading to that closed group syndrome. I have had many nice dances at Peterborough and people are generally friendly but for someone a bit nervous of asking I can see that it's less easy than at Cambridge.

Robert

Lory
12th-July-2005, 11:14 AM
:yeah:

Which is a real dilemma if someone asks for too many dances in an evening or insists on "holding on" to you when you actually fancy a change of partner -
How about saying 'I do like dancing with you but there's lot's of other people I've been promising myself to dance with tonight too... can I come back and grab you for another later? :) :flower:

The general rule of thumb I apply is, if they've asked me and I've enjoyed the dance, I'll ask them for a second but if I've asked them first, then it's up to them to ask me again! (which obviously I love, cos I asked them in the first place :na: )

There are a few exceptions to this rule, if I'm with someone I consider is my friend and the next track that comes on is one I love and know will suit us both, I hold on for dear life! :blush:

I have to say, I'm very conscious if I'm in a room full of fabulous women (or single young totty for that matter) that I'm probably not the 'number one' choice of the night for most men, so I don't like to push my luck and I incline to bow out gracefully after just one very grateful go! ;)

I've been in earshot of men who see certain women walking their way and audibly groan, awe 'not again'! But they accept with a weary smile anyway, to me, what could worse than being the cause of a reaction like that :sick:

stewart38
12th-July-2005, 11:44 AM
:yeah:

Which is a real dilemma if someone asks for too many dances in an evening or insists on "holding on" to you when you actually fancy a change of partner - no offence and all that, but I don't want to dance with someone more than twice in an evening or twice in a row unless a) they are a fantastic dancer or b) I fancy them. Unfortunately, I haven't yet been lucky enough to be asked to dance more than twice in a row by anyone fitting into either of these categories (well, only at one event and it don't count and I ain't telling) - only the people who I really wish would go and find some other woman :rolleyes:

But why should I have to lie about needing a rest/drink/cool down when I want to dance - just not with them at that point in time :mad: (doesn't mean I don't want to dance with them ever again)


why take my post out on context, I said if they had asked 20 times thats different :mad:

Re other point and looking bored. I went out of my way to not look bored when she said i looked bored but she made her mind up I was bored and I wasnt that bored. The boring fact is she is one that sits out a lot I wonder why

stewart38
12th-July-2005, 11:48 AM
The general rule of thumb I apply is, if they've asked me and I've enjoyed the dance, I'll ask them for a second but if I've asked them first, then it's up to them to ask me again! (which obviously I love, cos I asked them in the first place :na: )




:tears:

LMC
12th-July-2005, 11:52 AM
why take my post out on context, I said if they had asked 20 times thats different :mad:

I've told you six million times not to exaggerate.


How about saying 'I do like dancing with you but there's lot's of other people I've been promising myself to dance with tonight too... can I come back and grab you for another later?

I guess I'm just too honest - I would hate to say that if I had *no intention* of asking them again later (and *every intention* of avoiding them!) :blush:

Wonder if a thicker skin can be taught in improver's classes? :rolleyes:

Zuhal
12th-July-2005, 11:52 AM
So I'll admit I don't do classes often, but I would do more so if there were more classes I could learn from - I don't want to learn another 4 weird moves I'll never use...

So for many experienced intermediates, the freestyle is the only part of a class worth going to.



There is still something to learn from the class. (for me) :cool:
My presence helps the ratio so that more ladies get to dance instead of waiting.
I get to spot the one that can follow and is worth a dance later.

It always amuses me when I am doing the beginners class that someone who can barely follow and grips like a crocodile clip starts turning up for the second class only and then says. "You don't need to do the Beginners Class"

Zuhal

robd
12th-July-2005, 11:57 AM
It always amuses me when I am doing the beginners class that someone who can barely follow and grips like a crocodile clip starts turning up for the second class only and then says. "You don't need to do the Beginners Class"


:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

I waited about 8 lessons before joining intermediates and yet last night we had a number of women on their 1st or 2nd week doing the intermediate when they would have been better served in consolidating the beginners lesson.

EDIT: Just realised I misread your point but still agree totally and feel my point is equally valid.

Robert

Andy McGregor
12th-July-2005, 12:01 PM
It always amuses me when I am doing the beginners class that someone who can barely follow and grips like a crocodile clip starts turning up for the second class only and then says. "You don't need to do the Beginners Class"

ZuhalI'm not sure if this is worse than the woman who doesn't know you in the beginners lesson who keeps telling you (wrongly) how to do the moves you've been doing/teaching for years.

Purple Sparkler
12th-July-2005, 12:05 PM
I've been in earshot of men who see certain women walking their way and audibly groan, awe 'not again'! But they accept with a weary smile anyway, to me, what could worse than being the cause of a reaction like that :sick:

I WONDERED what it was they were all muttering. I know I need to work on asking a wider variety of people. Aiming to do so tonight.

But last week I danced with one guy who said I looked thoroughly exasperated- I didn't mean to be, but he wasn't a Ceroc dancer, had not (to my knowledge) done the beginner's class even, and thus really didn't know what he was doing. At least if they've done the class you can say 'well let's go over the four moves they did in Beginners', but that's the second time I've danced with someone who had literally NO moves under their belt. I was annoyed the first time too. I'd still say yes to them if they asked me again, but I doubt they will ask me :blush:

The only time I've actually had to extricate myself was with a chap who just kept dancing. And kept dancing. Once we'd got to the end of the third song and he was still showing no sign of stopping I used the 'there are other people I've promised to dance with'. He was new, so I don't think he realised that you're not supposed to pick one person and keep going. But he hasn't asked me again either, which is bad.
For the record I have been known to dance mutliple songs with the same partner, but never consecutively.

MartinHarper
12th-July-2005, 12:18 PM
It's easy to inadvertantly sound like a hotshot - particularly if folks decide to interpret your comments that way.


So many of last night's partners (not beginners for whom you would make allowances) would not keep time and could not be made to keep time.

It's ok to be a beginner - everyone was a beginner once. Just don't be a slow learner, or you'll get dirty looks from fast learners who think you're doing it on purpose.


I get to spot the one that can follow and is worth a dance later.

It's ok to be a beginner - and people will still ask you to dance, provided that you're a natural. If you're not a natural, you're not worth a dance, so get used to spending the freestyle on the sidelines until you figure it out.

Martin
12th-July-2005, 12:29 PM
I'm with Lory on this one :worthy: Someone who consitently asked me for dances when I was in the UK. And yes I have said no to her a couple of times, she could not have been too ofended as she asked me again later. :kiss:

I cannot agree with Andy on this one. You go as a paying customer, so you have a choice.

As to jockey, how sensitive - it is only dancing, if people say no, why let it effect your whole evening - as they say in Aus "get over it"

As to me, sometimes I say no, with no excuses. The fact is I do not want to dance with you. Or maybe I do not want to dance right now, I want to watch or socialise.
Get a grip, get a life, saying no, means you are making a choice.

Someone said no to me 2 weeks ago. My thoughts were OK - either you want a break, or do not want to dance with me.
My choice if I ask her again.
To make more out of this is just perception. :flower:

robd
12th-July-2005, 09:15 PM
It's easy to inadvertantly sound like a hotshot - particularly if folks decide to interpret your comments that way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by robd
So many of last night's partners (not beginners for whom you would make allowances) would not keep time and could not be made to keep time.


It's ok to be a beginner - everyone was a beginner once. Just don't be a slow learner, or you'll get dirty looks from fast learners who think you're doing it on purpose.


Fair enough. I would define a hotshot as someone who thinks these things and then acts on them (i.e does not dance with less skilled dancers). I just think these things - at the moment! I still ask those people and will continue to do so - I don't like seeing people on the sidelines.

That sentence quoted was borne of frustration at so many of last night's dances and I have a habit which I do not like at all of transferring my frustration at not being able to lead difficult partners into annoyance at what I perceive to be their deficiencies. But, regardless of your level of experience and how many moves you know, if you are not in time to the music and are moving in such a way that prevents the supposed leader from bringing you into time (short of some industrial strength yanking) the dance will never flow.

stewart38
13th-July-2005, 10:39 AM
I'm with Lory on this one :worthy: Someone who consitently asked me for dances when I was in the UK. And yes I have said no to her a couple of times, she could not have been too ofended as she asked me again later. :kiss:

I cannot agree with Andy on this one. You go as a paying customer, so you have a choice.

As to jockey, how sensitive - it is only dancing, if people say no, why let it effect your whole evening - as they say in Aus "get over it"

As to me, sometimes I say no, with no excuses. The fact is I do not want to dance with you. Or maybe I do not want to dance right now, I want to watch or socialise.
Get a grip, get a life, saying no, means you are making a choice.

Someone said no to me 2 weeks ago. My thoughts were OK - either you want a break, or do not want to dance with me.
My choice if I ask her again.
To make more out of this is just perception. :flower:

Without an excuse (even made up) its just rude. But agree people 'manners' will be different and people should accept there are rude people about and not get hung up about it

Can you image a women on a crowded floor (with loads of extra female dancers e.g at Bisley) makes the effort and sometime courage to walk across a crowded floor and says ' er er er excuse me would you like to dance' ? and the response is NO. of course its not going to affect her evening , why not just add **** off for good measure :whistle:

bigdjiver
13th-July-2005, 03:23 PM
How many ladies do us guys saunter past in search of our next quarry without feeling any need to explain why those ladies are being overlooked? Guys dish out tens, if not hundreds, of silent rejections every night.

LMC
13th-July-2005, 03:30 PM
How many ladies do us guys saunter past in search of our next quarry without feeling any need to explain why those ladies are being overlooked? Guys dish out tens, if not hundreds, of silent rejections every night.
:yeah:

Although to be fair, this would still make complete sense if you changed it to


How many guys do us ladies saunter past in search of our next quarry without feeling any need to explain why those guys are being overlooked? Ladies dish out tens, if not hundreds, of silent rejections every night.

Unless you know them or have danced with them before, then when someone has walked past you a few times in one evening it kinda puts you off asking them to dance with you - not necessarily fair or reasonable, but that's the way it is. Especially if you're on your own and/or at a new venue and/or you are not that confident in your dancing abilities.

stewart38
13th-July-2005, 03:41 PM
:yeah:

Although to be fair, this would still make complete sense if you changed it to



Unless you know them or have danced with them before, then when someone has walked past you a few times in one evening it kinda puts you off asking them to dance with you - not necessarily fair or reasonable, but that's the way it is. Especially if you're on your own and/or at a new venue and/or you are not that confident in your dancing abilities.

Yes but 90% of 'being asked to dance is still my men' ? I stand to be corrected, perhaps one day it will be even but its not now

I do appreciate when you walk past someone 7 times to dance with the people around them it could be off putting but then THEY SHOULD ASK

LMC
13th-July-2005, 03:59 PM
I do appreciate when you walk past someone 7 times to dance with the people around them it could be off putting but then THEY SHOULD ASK
:yeah:

BUT

Yes but 90% of 'being asked to dance is still my men' ? I stand to be corrected, perhaps one day it will be even but its not now
:yeah: too

:rolleyes:

alex
22nd-July-2005, 02:22 PM
(from whats in a name thread (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=136388#post136388))
Fourthly, if I am about to lead a dangerous drop with a relative stranger...

What's more I am not a sleazebag and IMHO can give a top dancer a top dance yet its always the top class girls that turn me down.
is there any correlation between these two statements? do some ladies turn down requests because they know the man does lots of drops? or is it the opposite. do women actively seek out men who do drops?

(general question, not aimed at jockey in particular. i dont think i know who jockey is)

alex

DavidB
22nd-July-2005, 02:52 PM
do some ladies turn down requests because they know the man does lots of drops? or is it the opposite. do women actively seek out men who do drops?It is a bit of both. I've seen ladies run a mile when certain men come on the prowl, and in at least one case it was a drop merchant.

But other ladies complain that men don't do enough drops. Don't know if they will 'actively seek out' the men they know who do them. Maybe you should ask KatieR???

DavidB

PS Alex - How is the leg?