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Gus
3rd-July-2005, 11:39 AM
Was looking round the dancefloor last night and idly wondering what the next 'Big Thing' (innovation in Modern Jive) is going to be. In 1999 Nigel and Nina brought Blues to the forefront (often copied, never equalled). Around 2001 Viktor and Lydia brought salsa/jive fusion to the main stage. This was followed by Amir with Jango (2004?).

So what now? WCS seems to have a bit of a following but given its relative complexity I'm not sure if its going to make much of an impression. Certainly, in the provinces it doesn't seem to have made much of an impact. Is 2005 the year where WCS takes off or is there something else lurking in the shadows?

Minnie M
3rd-July-2005, 12:29 PM
There are very few MJ dancers (leads & follows) who can handly very fast MJ well, so..... I think MJ needs a very fast alternative - like Lindy has Balboa. Maybe someone could join it together and call it BoaJive :flower:

Tiggerbabe
3rd-July-2005, 12:42 PM
BoaJive :flower:
Now, why does that conjour up a picture of feathers flying in all directions?
:wink: :D :kiss:

jockey
3rd-July-2005, 12:59 PM
Maybe a blend of modern jive and WCS: already a number of progressive dancers have learnt to dance their modern jive in a slot (benefitting from the highly slotted teaching of Nigel and Nina, which itself has provided a platform for the recent surge of interest in WCS) and , furthermore, many of the better ladies have shown a leaning towards doing their own thing (wiggles, ocho style footwork) as the man leaves them out there to "play" (the lead taking a back seat).
I had a dance with a jiver last night at Bookham who has gone over to WCS very effectively and it was great - She did loads of stylish footwork and I threw in my trademark slides , fast lead spins and slotted drops (ballroon drop, John Brett special etc) and shimmies. What WCS lacks (unless you are a world champions!) are big arm moves and drops but its easy to put them in - we dont have to be straightjacketed into what we can do - and you have the best of both worlds (maybe).
I do think WCS looks pretty good providing it is danced "into the floor" and not bounced in trainers but I suspect that it is more satisfying to the dancers themselves (secure in the knowledge that they are being pretty darned fashionable :devil: ) than spectacular to watch. And then there is the problem for WCS afficionados which I foresee : where are they going to compete? California?

Minnie M
3rd-July-2005, 01:09 PM
Now, why does that conjour up a picture of feathers flying in all directions?
:wink: :D :kiss:
:rofl: :rofl: couldn't really call it BalJive or JiveBal or the other 'fast lindy' dance is the Shag - hate to think what you could conjure up with that one :blush: (well they do call it dirty dancing or 3min sex on the dance floor) :rofl: :whistle:

BTW the mix of jive & WCS is already there as many MJ dancers are dancing in a slot and they are being taught to dance in a slot, great idea IMO might help being bashed in the face etc.

Lynn
3rd-July-2005, 01:10 PM
Maybe a blend of modern jive and WCS: already a number of progressive dancers have learnt to dance their modern jive in a slot (benefitting from the highly slotted teaching of Nigel and Nina, which itself has provided a platform for the recent surge of interest in WCS) and , furthermore, many of the better ladies have shown a leaning towards doing their own thing (wiggles, ocho style footwork) as the man leaves them out there to "play" (the lead taking a back seat). OK, I have only done one class WCS, am not one of the 'better ladies' and am not even living in a country with an active MJ scene, so can't comment on the next 'big thing' - but have to say that I love dancing in a slot and being allowed to play - esp to the right sort of music. So if this is a direction MJ is heading in, I would be happy!

Gus
3rd-July-2005, 01:18 PM
but have to say that I love dancing in a slot and being allowed to play - esp to the right sort of music. So if this is a direction MJ is heading in, I would be happy!Bit interested with the link on this thread between 'ladies playing' and WCS. My recollection was that it was Nina (through Blues) then Lydia who brought in the 'ladies doing it for themsleves' movement. As for the slot dancing, I agree that WCS does accentuate this but many of the better dancers have been using passing moves for a long time. My personal view was that the WCS footwork allowed dnacers more expression to slower tracks. I've watched Messr Sheepman do this very effectively and just wish my feet could do what these WCS animlas make loom so easy :sick:

Re the 'faster jive', I seem to remember a few instructors over the years trying to teach Turbo-Jive ... but I've not seen anyone make this effective yet .. most of the ones I've seen seem to be lessons in beginner Lindy.

Minnie M
3rd-July-2005, 01:27 PM
Re the 'faster jive', I seem to remember a few instructors over the years trying to teach Turbo-Jive ... but I've not seen anyone make this effective yet .. most of the ones I've seen seem to be lessons in beginner Lindy.
Balboa is a close-up jive, with the ocassional jive move, allows you time to get your breath back but still look like you are dancing. Zydeco is similar to this too, personally a good teacher could combine the two quite easy (I think :innocent: )
check out :-
http://www.allbalboa.com/videos.htm

Feelingpink
3rd-July-2005, 02:04 PM
OK, I have only done one class WCS, am not one of the 'better ladies' and am not even living in a country with an active MJ scene, so can't comment on the next 'big thing' - but have to say that I love dancing in a slot and being allowed to play - esp to the right sort of music. So if this is a direction MJ is heading in, I would be happy!
I don't mind whether or not I'm dancing in a slot, but love being allowed to play ... and WCS has a woman's formal signal to the guy that they are playing ... and signalling when they are finished ('yes, you can take back the lead now') ... sure DavidB could explain this better.

So I wonder if the next big thing is going to be WCS along with two-step or whatever it was that Lee and Cat were demonstrating at the T-Jive on Sunday that looked fantastic and balletic. The reason might not be just the 'play' aspect of things, but because of the 'wow' showcases that blow the minds of MJers are those in WCS or similar dance forms ... and they're often young (or young at heart).

Minnie M
3rd-July-2005, 02:17 PM
I love WCS, having learnt it about 5 years ago, I am still on the same level, just wish I could get better :tears:

Dance 'playing' :worthy: love it, but you don't need WCS to be able to play, most of the competant dancers allow the followers to play :clap: however it is the music that prompts you to play more than the dance and WCS type music is more prone to this :clap:

David Bailey
3rd-July-2005, 03:09 PM
I think this is a bit of a simplistic discussion, based on a somewhat broad assumption. Firstly, I don't know for sure if MJ has "fashions", all at once - it's such a big and diverse environment.

One could definitely make the case for salsa, it obviously has global trends and styles and developments (I'm still hanging around waiting for Cuban to come back into style, bit like hanging onto my flares really :) ). But MJ, I'm not sure.

Once could make a similar case for "The next big thing" being any of the following, in no particular order:
- Ballroom dancing moves in general (driven by Beeb programmes, or, locally, nosequins etc.)
- Tango, or WCS / two-step (I understand this is a dance, that's all I know about it), as described
- Salsa fusion - I believe there's mileage in that
- "Australian style" - don't ask me, but if I had to guess, it'd be "lots and lots of moves in a routine" :)
- your particular favourite.

So not only do I not think there's a Next Big Thing, I'm not convinced there have been Previous Big Things...

Gus
3rd-July-2005, 03:32 PM
So not only do I not think there's a Next Big Thing, I'm not convinced there have been Previous Big Things...Ahem ... WHERE have you been hiding? :whistle:

I remember the HUGE changes broughtyabout by the introduction of Blues, Salsa fusion and Jango ...... oh, I forgot ... do you do only Ceroc(tm)? :wink:

David Bailey
3rd-July-2005, 04:06 PM
Ahem ... WHERE have you been hiding? :whistle: London. I don't get out much... :blush:


I remember the HUGE changes broughtyabout by the introduction of Blues, Salsa fusion and Jango
I'm sure they were, but this is all relative.

We experience change in a personal manner, based on our own viewpoints and warped by our own recollections (hence I still believe Kate Bush was a great musical talent :blush: )

I'm only a humble dancer, and my viewpoint is that of a consumer rather than a producer. You may well have a point, if you're considering it from a teaching / academic point of view - which may well filter down to the feet-on-the-floor in due course.

And therefore, possibly both viewpoints are correct in their own context.

For example, if I look hard, certainly I can see that more of my partners now can more easily follow a salsa-type lead from me than they could, say, ten or even five years ago. So that could be from salsa-move teaching; but then, it could also be because I'd hope I'm a better lead than I was then. So I'm not sure how to isolate that out.

Similarly, I believe more followers I dance with are more confident, if allowed, to take the lead and play with footwork / shines than they were a few years ago. But again, that could be because I'm more relaxed about allowing this taking-of-lead, rather than people being taught more of that style.

Or, it could be because I'm mainly dancing with different people, or that the people I dance with have themselves experimented with different styles, and have themselves improved in their own particular directions, or that the general standard of my partners has improved.

Given these wide range of factors, isolating single individual influences on such a large, diverse and adaptable dance form is difficult, at least from my consumer's point of view. However, as I said, it may be easier to discern trends from the producer's point of view.


...... oh, I forgot ... do you do only Ceroc(tm)? :wink:
Well, I started in ballroom, moved to Ceroc (I'm sure you remember :wink: ), moved to salsa, messed with a bit of tango etc. Now, I dunno what I do really, I make it up most of the time :)

It works for me. Except when dancing to Swing City or Rockin' Robin of course :tears:

cerocmetro
3rd-July-2005, 05:07 PM
Interesting that you should have brought this up just when we are about to release a new concept.

We have been working on a fusion of Kick boxing and Tango. It involves a lot of jumping up and down and we use "pneumatic tunes" utilising the delicate harmonies of a sledge hammer on concrete. We are calling it "Kango"

We have also started a lot of Blues into Tango, "Bango"

and of course Ceroc fused with Rhumba, Aerobics and Pole dancing. Struggling with a name for that one :devil:

Adam

Minnie M
3rd-July-2005, 05:13 PM
Interesting that you should have brought this up just when we are about to release a new concept.

We have been working on a fusion of Kick boxing and Tango. It involves a lot of jumping up and down and we use "pneumatic tunes" utilising the delicate harmonies of a sledge hammer on concrete. We are calling it "Kango"

We have also started a lot of Blues into Tango, "Bango"

and of course Ceroc fused with Rhumba, Aerobics and Pole dancing. Struggling with a name for that one :devil:

Adam
:rofl: Welcome back to England :clap: & posting Adam :flower: and stirring up trouble again :whistle:

Trousers
3rd-July-2005, 06:30 PM
I love WCS, having learnt it about 5 years ago, I am still on the same level, just wish I could get better :tears:

I've seen you lots of times in the 100Club and you always seemed pretty able to me Minnie. LSDS monday nights were cool even for LindyLess MJ'ers like my self. Some cracking bands down there too - as you will know.

I probably know 8 swing moves learnt at Nicks Old Walcontonians place. But still they suffice if you wanna grab a girl and say 'Do you Swing?' :devil: Some of the looks I have had were priceless.
However the music that is most comfortable to Swing or Lindy to tends more toward he 40's stuff and that isn't so main stream. Personally I like it - well some of it.
But getting back to your earlier point Fast MJ - Rock n Roll in my book -
I LOVE IT
Lets do more of that!

David Bailey
3rd-July-2005, 07:00 PM
Interesting that you should have brought this up just when we are about to release a new concept. ...
We have also started a lot of Blues into Tango, "Bango"
You clearly have a dance-y espionage situation to handle.

Let's hope no-one's caught wind of the names for the upcoming fusions of Big apple/tango and Bolero/tango, or the whole Cunning Plan will be undone...

Minnie M
3rd-July-2005, 07:16 PM
..........at Nicks Old Walcontonians place....
That is Nick Kirby of Jive Connection (he is also an ocassionaly forum poster - keeping his forum name secret :whistle: )

He has a brilliant night on a Wednesday at Kingston Dance Studio - I love the 40's swing style - roll on Rhythm Riot (the weekend after Franco's at Camber) :clap: :clap:

Talking about Rhythm Riot, that is a great place for MJers who want something a little different, the music is R & B / R 'n' R there are lots of French dancers who MJers can easily dance with, as the moves are the same (French Jive and all that) even if you can't speak to them :whistle:

So maybe that is another direction, dancing MJ to ALL styles of dance :flower: i.e. adapting current dance moves to match ;)

Andy McGregor
3rd-July-2005, 07:30 PM
I think the next big thing should be dancing modern jive really well. Learning the dance properly with a nice grounding in decent technique. This would not involve trying to be any other dance but modern jive. And the most important way, IMHO, for people to get this dance is to be given individual feedback by a dance teacher or well trained taxi dancer. This means that classes should be smaller, not larger, and people should spend time with their actual students going over how to get it right and how they're getting it wrong.

After the thread on "Dancing DJs" we could, perhaps, have one on "MJ teachers who don't dance with their students" because that is what I think's the root cause of a great deal of the bad dancing I see out there :angry:

Minnie M
3rd-July-2005, 08:49 PM
There are very few MJ dancers (leads & follows) who can handly very fast MJ well, so..... I think MJ needs a very fast alternative - like Lindy has Balboa. Maybe someone could join it together and call it BoaJive :flower:
I think some forumites have misread my above post.

You don't need to learn Lindy to dance to fast music, unless you want to learn lindy because you like the lindy style. Even some Lindy dancers don't like dancing to fast music, that is why they dance BALBOA. Personally I am not keen on Balboa as it is to UCP for me, I don't like blues dancing for the same reason. However, I am definitely in the minority, and for that reason I brought this option up.
(think I have overdone it a bit too - sorry folks, but I think I have confused some people, and being a girlie I HAVE to explain myself :whistle: )

Mr Cool
3rd-July-2005, 10:38 PM
I think some forumites have misread my above post.

You don't need to learn Lindy to dance to fast music, unless you want to learn lindy because you like the lindy style. Even some Lindy dancers don't like dancing to fast music, that is why they dance BALBOA. Personally I am not keen on Balboa as it is to UCP for me, I don't like blues dancing for the same reason. However, I am definitely in the minority, and for that reason I brought this option up.
(think I have overdone it a bit too - sorry folks, but I think I have confused some people, and being a girlie I HAVE to explain myself :whistle: )

Hi Minne.
I think learning some basic Balboa is very usefull for quick music when done smoothly it fits in easy with Jive as it does with Lindy, personally I think its a shame to always dance balboa when the the fast music comes on. I prefer to add it in with lindy (smooth style please), as you say it gives you a breather, so add a few jazz steps a hollywood whip a circle and the simple slick Jive moves, and with a bit of practice you can dance to almost any fast track. Add some Blues a little Tango and not forgetting WCS to your Jive and you can dance to almost anything.
We could Call it...................... JUST DANCE!!!!!!!! :waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

Jive Brummie
3rd-July-2005, 11:34 PM
I think the next big thing should be dancing modern jive really well. Learning the dance properly with a nice grounding in decent technique. This would not involve trying to be any other dance but modern jive. And the most important way, IMHO, for people to get this dance is to be given individual feedback by a dance teacher or well trained taxi dancer. This means that classes should be smaller, not larger, and people should spend time with their actual students going over how to get it right and how they're getting it wrong.

After the thread on "Dancing DJs" we could, perhaps, have one on "MJ teachers who don't dance with their students" because that is what I think's the root cause of a great deal of the bad dancing I see out there :angry:


I like what you've written Andy and to a degree I totally back it up. However teachers dancing with students happens all the time up here but it doesn't necessarily mean every dancer is of a brilliant standard, and that's not a reflection on the standard of teacher as they are all very capable. You'll know yourself (I'm guessing) from teaching that there are times when people just decide to hold a conversation in your class and unless they all suddenly decide that modern jive isn't just a social dance, it's one people actually want to be good at, abilities will be all over the place.

I like the individual feedback thing but I'm aware it may frighten off some folk (away from our social dance...never to return). Given a chance to utilise it though.....I would. Good idea.

Perth beware :rofl: (it's a joke, it's a joke....i won't really :whistle: )

J

Jive Brummie
3rd-July-2005, 11:42 PM
And as for Gus' question...

Street Jive. Utilising body isolation's, combinig hip hop or street moves with modern jive. Some folk do it already and i've seen it cropping into competitions. Personally I like it and try to dance it with Melanie or at least funk things up a bit. However to it's detriment, teaching people how to do body isolations over night is impossible and to the move monsters, using body control for some reason appears to be easier than doing some arm tangle move. Personally I disagree with this reasoning as I know how long it took me to learn how to body roll to a basic level (and I'm still practising).

Exponents of this I've seen so far have been...

Alex Faulkner and Jane in Blackpool this year, along with Tony Epps and his partner - also at Blackpool. As i said FC and I also have a bash.

Surely this style of dancing modern jive would make it live up to it's name....'modern'?

Just a thought... :whistle:

J x x

Strive to Jive! (see what I did there? Street & Jive = Strive! Good eh...and no you can't nick it...it's my idea!)

Andy McGregor
4th-July-2005, 12:21 AM
I like what you've written Andy and to a degree I totally back it up. However teachers dancing with students happens all the time up here

-snip-

I like the individual feedback thing but I'm aware it may frighten off some folk (away from our social dance...never to return). Given a chance to utilise it though.....I would. Good idea.

Perth beware :rofl: (it's a joke, it's a joke....i won't really :whistle: )

JThanks for the vote of confidence. It's nice to hear teachers dance with the students in Scotland. Down here I've noticed a phenomenon where the teachers only dance with the good dancers - they seem scared to look bad, and that's always a danger when dancing with someone on their first night. And sometimes they only dance with the pretty dancers, but that's for another reason altogether. It seems to me that many teachers spend much of their time chatting to the DJ/door person/taxi dancers/mates etc.

I think that individual feedback from the stage would put anyone off. But one-to-one feedback given in a supportive and friendly way seems to be welcomed - especially if it's to do with safety or avoiding injuries.

DavidB
4th-July-2005, 02:20 AM
Down here I've noticed a phenomenon where the teachers only dance with the good dancers - they seem scared to look bad, and that's always a danger when dancing with someone on their first night. And sometimes they only dance with the pretty dancers, but that's for another reason altogether. It seems to me that many teachers spend much of their time chatting to the DJ/door person/taxi dancers/mates etc.The only thing I ever liked about teaching was teaching. But this turned out to be only a minor part of the job.

I know that some people can dance for 4 hours without a break, but I can't. After 2 classes my feet hurt so much that I could hardly walk. The only thing I wanted to do was sit down and put my feet up, but you are not allowed to. You can't refuse dances when you are the teacher. One night of teaching would already mean taking the next night off to recover. Dancing non-stop for 2 hours afterwards would mean 2 or 3 days off. The only thing I could do was to make sure no-one could ask me. I would hide.

When some ladies would start coming back-stage looking for me, I did the only other thing I could do - I stopped teaching. I wanted to get my life back. And after the experience I had, I'll never teach a regular class again.

Amir
4th-July-2005, 09:21 AM
Well everyone has their own next big thing, but for me its Night Club Two Step. I found it really easy to learn compared to other dances, feels amazing, and allows you to dance to the really slow romantic songs that are normally played at the end of the night and you're not meant to be able to dance to. Also, I've found it very easy with some tracks to merge it directly into modern jive without it feeling like a different dance, which adds a whole new dimension to the whole thing for me.


I've also been working on a fusion of Rhumba, Aerobics, Mambo, Balboa and Ostrich eggs. It's endorsed by Stallone but we haven't figured out a name for it yet.

Gadget
4th-July-2005, 09:40 AM
I think that "the next big thing" is determined by which visiting dancers you have, any 'additional' dance classes that regulars go to and what the teacher has picked up recently: I've seen a few months of 'blusey' style and a few months of 'salsa' style, but in general, all I've really seen has been dancing.
There have been a few workshops recently (& Southport) that several 'regulars' from various scottish venues have been going to that have included lots of arials. This and the run-up to the Scottish Competition will probably make the "next big thing" up here big moves and spectacular stylings.

But I agree with Andy {:what: - we'll need to stop this} the next "big thing" will/should be the tightening up of moves with 'precision' being more important than 'just getting trough the move'

Cruella
4th-July-2005, 09:40 AM
And as for Gus' question...

Street Jive. Utilising body isolation's, combinig hip hop or street moves with modern jive. Some folk do it already and i've seen it cropping into competitions. Personally I like it and try to dance it with Melanie or at least funk things up a bit. However to it's detriment, teaching people how to do body isolations over night is impossible and to the move monsters, using body control for some reason appears to be easier than doing some arm tangle move. Personally I disagree with this reasoning as I know how long it took me to learn how to body roll to a basic level (and I'm still practising).

Exponents of this I've seen so far have been...

Alex Faulkner and Jane in Blackpool this year, along with Tony Epps and his partner - also at Blackpool. As i said FC and I also have a bash.

Surely this style of dancing modern jive would make it live up to it's name....'modern'?

Just a thought... :whistle:

J x x

Strive to Jive! (see what I did there? Street & Jive = Strive! Good eh...and no you can't nick it...it's my idea!)

Tonys partner is called Amy. The one thing you all have in common is your youth!! :tears: (jealous)
I love watching this funky type of jiving but alas for us more mature peeps it just doesn't look right.
The lesson you taught at Southport shows that you can teach this style well, but like any style points people can't expect to just put it into their dancing straight after the lesson, they need to practice until it becomes natural.
To say that you and FC 'have a bash' is such an understatement. :worthy:

Heather
4th-July-2005, 09:45 AM
Interesting that you should have brought this up just when we are about to release a new concept.


and of course Ceroc fused with Rhumba, Aerobics and Pole dancing. Struggling with a name for that one :devil:

Adam

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Best laugh of the day so far!!!!!

:hug: :kiss:
Heather
xx

David Franklin
4th-July-2005, 11:13 AM
Was looking round the dancefloor last night and idly wondering what the next 'Big Thing' (innovation in Modern Jive) is going to be. In 1999 Nigel and Nina brought Blues to the forefront (often copied, never equalled). Around 2001 Viktor and Lydia brought salsa/jive fusion to the main stage. This was followed by Amir with Jango (2004?).From personal experience, the Blues "phenomenon" seemed much bigger than anything that's come later. As much as anything, we now have so many areas competing for jivers' attention, it's much harder for any one thing to make a huge impact, particularly if you're talking about actual hard numbers.


So what now? WCS seems to have a bit of a following but given its relative complexity I'm not sure if its going to make much of an impression. Certainly, in the provinces it doesn't seem to have made much of an impact. Is 2005 the year where WCS takes off or is there something else lurking in the shadows?I think the biggest problem for WCS is the lack of teachers. How can it make an impact when there are so few people really able to teach it? [I think this applies somewhat to "Street" style as well - there aren't many MJ teachers who can teach it. But at least solo classes are fairly easy to find.]


There have been a few workshops recently (& Southport) that several 'regulars' from various scottish venues have been going to that have included lots of arials. This and the run-up to the Scottish Competition will probably make the "next big thing" up here big moves and spectacular stylings.Following from my point above, I think one factor is moves are relatively easy to teach. I'd say it's perfectly possible for a good teacher to go to a workshop, learn new moves (potentially including drops and aerials), and (after a fair amount of thought and practice), teach them locally. But you can't go to a "introduction to WCS" workshop and leave with enough knowledge to teach WCS.

NaturalMystic
4th-July-2005, 11:43 AM
Dance 'playing' :worthy: love it, but you don't need WCS to be able to play, most of the competant dancers allow the followers to play :clap: however it is the music that prompts you to play more than the dance

I DO agree!! Listening to the music and enjoying the record inspires me - (I don't mind, what ever the category of music is - the song has to speak to me... or rather sing to me - :wink: -) - and of course, a partner who encourages me and looks after me well* are the "criteria" to make me HAPPY and FEEL GOOD.
* Yes - Dancing is about leading and following, but the "leader" should not think of him as being a "DICTATOR", it needs two to tango - and dancing in my view is a partnership.
AND - I feel really strongly about this- simple is quite often more - enjoy the music and your partner - it's surprising what change this can make to a dance - no stress for either of the dancers!! Relax!!
Of course I want to become and be a good dancer, but the main reason for me to dance is: I DANCE BECAUSE I LOVE DANCING - I don't go out there to win a competition!! Some people seam to have forgotten about this. It becomes too technical for me at times - dancing is about expressing your feelings, showing emotions - expressing yourself for the duration of the track. I have had dances which gave me so much that I have remembered them and of course the dance partner for a long time after.

--- DANCING is the loftiest, the most moving, the most beautiful of the arts, because it is no mere translation or abstraction from life; it is life itself. (Havelock Ellis, 1859-1939, British Psychologist) ---

KatieR
4th-July-2005, 02:39 PM
[QUOTE=DavidJames]

- "Australian style" - don't ask me, but if I had to guess, it'd be "lots and lots of moves in a routine" :)

QUOTE]


Being Australian I feel that yes we do like to do routines but I wouldn't class it as the 'Australian style' as far as freestyle is concerned (routines are mainly used in competitions and used for demo purposes) to me doing it Aussie-style means that there are a lot more drops and dips (yes back on my favourite topic again :whistle: ), I feel it is a more adventurous style.. we have different leads and holds for certain moves and when the drops are fast and to the floor etc. More energetic I would say.

cerocmetro
4th-July-2005, 03:34 PM
Ouch I can feel the neg reps already!!


I feel it is a more adventurous style.. we have different leads and holds for certain moves and when the drops are fast and to the floor etc. More energetic I would say.

And much further away from dancing than Ceroc here. Ceroc was always supposed to be for Joe public and the Aussie style is not. Well to be more precise was not. (come back to that one).

What we teach in class should be achievable by the class without them becoming body builders, investing in huge supplies of pain killers and regular trips to casualty. The majority of the dancing should be with the music. The tune should not just be a token noise in the background for the next big circus style aerial.

Now don't get me wrong, there is a time and a place for aerials and it isn't just an aussie thing, we have some of the best air step dancers around right here in the UK. BUT they should NOT be taught in regular classes and they should not be the main focus of the dancing.

Now to the "was not" bit. People Like Nicky Haslam and Mark Harding who have both been popping back and forth to Blighty are talking more and more about music interpretation, albeit a bit basic at the mo. The style there is still confused as to what MI is ie a natural flow of the moves to the tunes and tempos and subtlties of the music against moving literally to the words. But it is a start.

Yes the style is more energetic, but is it Ceroc?

Personally I would like to think that particular style is a past thing not the next best.

OK bending down head covered.

KatieR
4th-July-2005, 03:52 PM
Where to begin!


Ouch I can feel the neg reps already!!



And much further away from dancing than Ceroc here. Ceroc was always supposed to be for Joe public and the Aussie style is not. Well to be more precise was not. (come back to that one).

Just because we are a long way away doesn't mean we are backwards.


What we teach in class should be achievable by the class without them becoming body builders, investing in huge supplies of pain killers and regular trips to casualty. The majority of the dancing should be with the music. The tune should not just be a token noise in the background for the next big circus style aerial.

What is taught in Australia is more than achievable by everyone that learns there.. including the beginners and yes it is very freestylable. No one there seems to have a problem.


Now don't get me wrong, there is a time and a place for aerials and it isn't just an aussie thing, we have some of the best air step dancers around right here in the UK. BUT they should NOT be taught in regular classes and they should not be the main focus of the dancing.

Our freestyle is not full of aerials... yes we occassionally do the odd wrap somersault but its not packed full of impossible moves that only the best can do. You can be more adventurous in dance without it being dangerous. Just as it is here if a room is crowded then people wont do aerials.


Now to the "was not" bit. People Like Nicky Haslam and Mark Harding who have both been popping back and forth to Blighty are talking more and more about music interpretation, albeit a bit basic at the mo. The style there is still confused as to what MI is ie a natural flow of the moves to the tunes and tempos and subtlties of the music against moving literally to the words. But it is a start.

Yes the style is more energetic, but is it Ceroc?


do I really have to answer that? Of course it is Ceroc.. the moves are the same albeit with a few different leads. I can come from Australia and dance in the UK and know exactly what is required of me and the moves taught are easily transferable.


Personally I would like to think that particular style is a past thing not the next best. .

Im not saying its better.. just different.


OK bending down head covered.

Andy McGregor
4th-July-2005, 04:56 PM
Over here in the UK we might have the wrong impression of "Aussie Style". When anyone visits from abroad they need to do something to set themselves apart and make themselves look special. So they spin around with their partners on their shoulders a lot! Or, in the case of Martin, with their partner on one shoulder and DavidB's partner on the other. IMHO, those Aussie guys are superhuman and should not be let loose on our women :angry:

We need some kind of detention centre where Aussie Cerocers can be kept until they're really pale and weedy so they don't make us guys from the UK look bad :wink:

cerocmetro
4th-July-2005, 04:58 PM
Over here in the UK we might have the wrong impression of "Aussie Style". When anyone visits from abroad they need to do something to set themselves apart and make themselves look special. So they spin around with their partners on their shoulders a lot! Or, in the case of Martin, with their partner on one shoulder and DavidB's partner on the other. IMHO, those Aussie guys are superhuman and should not be let loose on our women :angry:

We need some kind of detention centre where Aussie Cerocers can be kept until they're really pale and weedy so they don't make us guys from the UK look bad :wink:

Actually Mandy did say that Mark Harding is one of the best and smoothest leads she has danced with.

I have to take her word I have never danced with him.

KatieR
4th-July-2005, 04:58 PM
Over here in the UK we might have the wrong impression of "Aussie Style". When anyone visits from abroad they need to do something to set themselves apart and make themselves look special. So they spin around with their partners on their shoulders a lot! Or, in the case of Martin, with their partner on one shoulder and DavidB's partner on the other. IMHO, those Aussie guys are superhuman and should not be let loose on our women :angry:

We need some kind of detention centre where Aussie Cerocers can be kept until they're really pale and weedy so they don't make us guys from the UK look bad :wink:

Or I think that you guys should make the trip to Australia ... the beer is better :cheers:

also with aerials and stuff its not always brute strength.. ive seen some larger ladies do some aerials with guys who have said that if the aerial is not too tricky that if it is done properly its not that hard... its more about technique that how muscley the guy is...

Andy McGregor
4th-July-2005, 05:03 PM
Or I think that you guys should make the trip to Australia ... the beer is better :cheers:

also with aerials and stuff its not always brute strength.. ive seen some larger ladies do some aerials with guys who have said that if the aerial is not too tricky that if it is done properly its not that hard... its more about technique that how muscley the guy is...Even when I get the technique right I still can't get Steve Lampert very far off the ground - I think he's probably gone 4WD to get a better grip or something :what:

KatieR
4th-July-2005, 05:04 PM
Even when I get the technique right I still can't get Steve Lampert very far off the ground - I think he's probably gone 4WD to get a better grip or something :what:

it also helps if you have long nails..

David Franklin
4th-July-2005, 05:09 PM
Even when I get the technique right I still can't get Steve Lampert very far off the ground - I think he's probably gone 4WD to get a better grip or something :what:I was sure you got him off the ground during double trouble. Something to do with kicking a ball into touch. (Yet another thing we struggle with relative to our Aussie counterparts at the moment :tears: ).

MartinHarper
4th-July-2005, 05:21 PM
I wasn't around at the time, so I'm curious: what factors made the 1999 Blues Revolution happen? Was it just the leadership of Nigel and Nina? Did it reflect some change in the music? Was there a gap left by the inability of MJers to dance to slow music? Or something else?

What drives fashions in modern jive?

cerocmetro
4th-July-2005, 05:22 PM
Or I think that you guys should make the trip to Australia ... the beer is better :cheers:

also with aerials and stuff its not always brute strength.. ive seen some larger ladies do some aerials with guys who have said that if the aerial is not too tricky that if it is done properly its not that hard... its more about technique that how muscley the guy is...

Nicky & Robert are probably the most well known for their lifts. They stayed with me for a couple of weeks. I reckon Robert ate more Nurofen than we had cereal. And have you seen all the bandages he wears. They are not from his IT job.

Mandy when we returned to NZ remembered that she always used to get a lot of headaches from Ceroc. When she started dancing again she realised why. The leads are brutal and she was thrown into drop after drop after drop. If she was lucky enough not to be in a drop, she was probably over the guys shoulders. :eek:

Love the beer though :clap:

Andy McGregor
4th-July-2005, 05:22 PM
What drives fashions in modern jive?Cometh the hour cometh the man - or woman.

KatieR
4th-July-2005, 05:25 PM
Nicky & Robert are probably the most well known for their lifts. They stayed with me for a couple of weeks. I reckon Robert ate more Nurofen than we had cereal. And have you seen all the bandages he wears. They are not from his IT job.


Love the beer though :clap:

I dont know... these IT jobs in Australia can get pretty rough! :D

cerocmetro
4th-July-2005, 05:25 PM
What drives fashions in modern jive?

Great question, deserves a thread Franck!!

cerocmetro
4th-July-2005, 05:26 PM
I dont know... these IT jobs in Australia can get pretty rough! :D

:rofl: :cheers:

Chef
4th-July-2005, 05:27 PM
Even when I get the technique right I still can't get Steve Lampert very far off the ground - I think he's probably gone 4WD to get a better grip or something :what:

Getting Steve Lampert off the ground!!!! Now theres a challenge. I think he even generates his own gravitational field - if the way ladies stick to him is anything to go by. If you need a hand with this one Andy, give me a call. I had better get off down to the gym.

DavidB
4th-July-2005, 05:31 PM
Getting Steve Lampert off the ground!!!! Now theres a challenge.Got this one sussed.

(it was originally suggested for me...)

Andy McGregor
4th-July-2005, 05:31 PM
I think he even generates his own gravitational field Chef could be right. Quite a few of us have seen his moon :sick:

KatieR
4th-July-2005, 05:32 PM
Got this one sussed.

(it was originally suggested for me...)
:worthy:

David Franklin
4th-July-2005, 05:41 PM
Nicky & Robert are probably the most well known for their lifts. They stayed with me for a couple of weeks. I reckon Robert ate more Nurofen than we had cereal. And have you seen all the bandages he wears. They are not from his IT job.Well if you're going to push your limits, I think that kind of goes with the territory. Much as I'd like to say otherwise, seems like most of the couples who do really big aerials spend a lot of time in at least some degree of pain. It's very rare I'd use painkillers these days though.

But on the other hand, it was at one of your workshops where I recall an unlikely looking airsteps couple - both fairly old, neither looking terribly fit, and the woman weighing the best part of 15 stone. And you got them to do the supergirl! :worthy:


Mandy when we returned to NZ remembered that she always used to get a lot of headaches from Ceroc. When she started dancing again she realised why. The leads are brutal and she was thrown into drop after drop after drop. If she was lucky enough not to be in a drop, she was probably over the guys shoulders. :eek:I think this is a big difference that Katie has remarked on. I don't really do fast drops anymore. I can't reliably do them without putting unacceptable stress on my and my wife's joints. And I suspect if I can't do it with a partner I've been competing with for several years, not many can do it in general freestyle.

cerocmetro
4th-July-2005, 05:54 PM
Well if you're going to push your limits, I think that kind of goes with the territory. Much as I'd like to say otherwise, seems like most of the couples who do really big aerials spend a lot of time in at least some degree of pain. It's very rare I'd use painkillers these days though.

Ah the pleasures and enjoyment of dancing. :sick:


But on the other hand, it was at one of your workshops where I recall an unlikely looking airsteps couple - both fairly old, neither looking terribly fit, and the woman weighing the best part of 15 stone. And you got them to do the supergirl! :worthy:

WOW yes Jim and Norma, now there is a man who could throw Lampy over his shoulder :worthy:


I think this is a big difference that Katie has remarked on. I don't really do fast drops anymore. I can't reliably do them without putting unacceptable stress on my and my wife's joints. And I suspect if I can't do it with a partner I've been competing with for several years, not many can do it in general freestyle.

Katie out of curiosity do Aussie girls have rubber bushes in their shoulders :whistle:
Maybe we have got it all wrong here, maybe it should not be about the next big thing in dance terms, but in body enhancements. eg stretchy arm extentions, sprung loaded legs etc :rofl:

Petal
4th-July-2005, 06:34 PM
I like the individual feedback thing but I'm aware it may frighten off some folk (away from our social dance...never to return). Given a chance to utilise it though.....I would. Good idea.

Perth beware :rofl: (it's a joke, it's a joke....i won't really :whistle: )

J

Yes, cos you've got Janet's feedback to deal with. :tears:

Jive Brummie
4th-July-2005, 11:25 PM
I value my own personal well being far too much to 'advise' Janet.....and besides...i'd never get anymore sweets...or chocolate cake...or meringues...or any of the other good stuff she makes and bakes! :worthy:

J

under par
5th-July-2005, 03:10 AM
I think the next big thing should be dancing modern jive really well. Learning the dance properly with a nice grounding in decent technique. This would not involve trying to be any other dance but modern jive. And the most important way, IMHO, for people to get this dance is to be given individual feedback by a dance teacher or well trained taxi dancer. This means that classes should be smaller, not larger, and people should spend time with their actual students going over how to get it right and how they're getting it wrong.

After the thread on "Dancing DJs" we could, perhaps, have one on "MJ teachers who don't dance with their students" because that is what I think's the root cause of a great deal of the bad dancing I see out there :angry:

I'm still waiting for our next dance Andy. :wink:

I want all the personal tuition/feedback you can give me. :whistle:

Petal
5th-July-2005, 09:29 AM
I value my own personal well being far too much to 'advise' Janet.....and besides...i'd never get anymore sweets...or chocolate cake...or meringues...or any of the other good stuff she makes and bakes! :worthy:

J

:clap: Good answer.

Andy McGregor
5th-July-2005, 10:04 AM
I'm still waiting for our next dance Andy. :wink:

I want all the personal tuition/feedback you can give me. :whistle:All you have to do is ask :flower:

Will
5th-July-2005, 10:17 AM
When I saw a thread called "The next Big Thing", I didn't expect it to be about getting Steve Lampert airbourne.

In my years of Ceroc, it's been Lindy for a long time. Finally in the last couple of years it's suddenly become WCS. It could be Salsa one day, or Tango :wink: , but I reckon Ballroom is where it could all end up myself.

Of course it could be that as many people who do Lindy and WCS from Ceroc / MJ also do ballroom and salsa already. It may just be that because Ballroom and salsa already have a significant following that you don't notice the ceroc influence on it, whereas Lindy & WCS had a very minimal following in the UK until cerocers started doing them?

Andy McGregor
5th-July-2005, 10:40 AM
Do ballroom forums have a thread where people debate waltz turning into tango? I don't think so. IMHO there are a very small number of people who start with MJ and then look for something else, a completely different dance or speed dating depending on why they went to MJ in the first place.

Will has hit on the thing we could be debating: which is what the next dance craze might be? IMHO the next dance craze will be MJ, so long as that's the one that's sold to the public. The only thing that could change my prediction would be if the charts suddenly filled up with waltzes and quicksteps or somebody clever developed a dance you could do to modern music - but we've already got one of them :confused:

cerocmetro
5th-July-2005, 12:11 PM
In my years of Ceroc, it's been Lindy for a long time. Finally in the last couple of years it's suddenly become WCS. It could be Salsa one day, or Tango :wink: , but I reckon Ballroom is where it could all end up myself.

Not sure about that Will.
WCS hit here in 1998 when Robert Cordoba came over for the first time. I think one of his first performances was at Chigwell.

What people liked about it was not that it was WCS, they liked it because it was smooth and flowed. It was no coincidence that breaks then started to appear and so MI was introduced big time into Ceroc. It was however stil Ceroc and not WCS or any other style of dance.

Lindy moves and style were big in the early days of Ceroc because quite a few of the people who started Ceroc in its infancy were already Lindy dancers, Simon Selmon for example. I remember doing James's advanced classes and being told the moves we were being taught were Ceroc moves. They were of course Lindy moves made easy.

Blues was a natural progression, as MI become increasingly important so the pace of the dancing and of course the music slowed down. Ceroc done slowly=Blues, throw in a few kicks=Lindy, wiggle the hips and move the feet a bit= Salsa etc etc .

Ballroom is not new in Ceroc, we have many Cha Cha, Rhumba moves.

Ceroc is a dance for the masses. It is easy to do and that is why it works. The MINORITY of Cerocers want to learn something new once having mastered the basics. The minority of the minority become good dancers and actually learn complete new style whereas the majority of the minority bring elements from the other styles back into their Ceroc.

I don't think it will ever all end up in one place, too many people have too many different tastes and needs and aspirations.

What is great about Ceroc and why so many people enjoy it is that it is so flexible. For example, you can bring your Salsa into Ceroc and look great. Why because Ceroc is not restricted with a strong style and fixed movements. However try and bluff Salsa with Ceroc and you get what happened at Bristol an experienced dancer, nay a fabulous dancer as yourself Will only being able to one Salsa move with only one footwork pattern that worked. So if someone as super hero like as you failed at Salsa, why should the mere mortals suddenly all be able to transfer to Ballroom or WCS etc.

I think the whole big "big next thing" thing is about influences on Ceroc NOT what new dance style is going to take over. We are only talking about the minority still.

The next big thing will be something like everyone doing body rolls, or dancing one handed or breaking away from each other and doing cartwheels.

The next big thing is also dictated by the average age profile of Ceroc. At the moment it is getting older but at some time it will suddenly get young again styles will change.

Ceroc to an extent is also regulated by laws and socio-economic changes. For example now we have a very American attitude for sueing, airsteps are not taught in classes. Wait until someone sues another person for having bad breath :eek:

Gus
5th-July-2005, 12:22 PM
For example now we have a very American attitude for sueing, airsteps are not taught in classes. Evidence? In all the years of Ceroc the only litigation I heard of was an instructor being sued for actualy dropping and damaging a dancer on the floor. I've seen LOADS of lessons, dancing and poor venue management that could legitmately resulted in legal action, but it never does. :sad:

I would say that airsteps are not taught from a common sense perspective (not that that has stopped some instructors teaching them :angry: ). I would far prefer to see a focus on 'back to basics', dancers learning to dance rather than just learning moves etc.

David Bailey
5th-July-2005, 12:22 PM
The next big thing will be something like everyone doing body rolls, or dancing one handed or breaking away from each other and doing cartwheels.
Not at our age :)


Wait until someone sues another person for having bad breath :eek:
Am I the only one who thinks this'd be a Good Idea? :whistle:

cerocmetro
5th-July-2005, 12:30 PM
Evidence? In all the years of Ceroc the only litigation I heard of was an instructor being sued for actualy dropping and damaging a dancer on the floor. I've seen LOADS of lessons, dancing and poor venue management that could legitmately resulted in legal action, but it never does. :sad:

I would say that airsteps are not taught from a common sense perspective (not that that has stopped some instructors teaching them :angry: ). I would far prefer to see a focus on 'back to basics', dancers learning to dance rather than just learning moves etc.


Actually there has been a case in the UK. I do not know if I should say who when and where, those involved know.

David Franklin
5th-July-2005, 12:45 PM
I think the whole big "big next thing" thing is about influences on Ceroc NOT what new dance style is going to take over. We are only talking about the minority still.I don't think anyone has really been arguing differently. Of course, since the minority tends to include a lot of teachers and competitors, the influence does percolate back to the mainstream to some extent.


The MINORITY of Cerocers want to learn something new once having mastered the basics. The minority of the minority become good dancers and actually learn complete new style whereas the majority of the minority bring elements from the other styles back into their Ceroc.And this is where I think Will's comment was actually pretty bang on: what is the "new style" going to be? At one point, every aspriring "good dancer" was advised to look at dancing Blues. And there have always been Lindy enthusiasts claiming it was the natural progression from MJ. But now it's WCS that seems to be filling that role. [None of these dances have replaced MJ, nor would I expect them to].


The next big thing will be something like everyone doing body rolls, or dancing one handed or breaking away from each other and doing cartwheels.Actually, in terms of impact, "drops and seducers" workshops (and the aforementioned transfer of ideas to regular classes) definitely qualify as a "Big Thing". They've certainly made a very visible difference to the dancing at a typical venue.

Cruella
5th-July-2005, 12:47 PM
Not sure about that Will.
WCS hit here in 1998 when Robert Cordoba came over for the first time. I think one of his first performances was at Chigwell.

:
Yeah i remember Adam having him perform at Chelmsford around this time. I still watch the video now and wish i could dance west coast half as well as they do. :tears:

KatieR
5th-July-2005, 02:07 PM
I think this is a big difference that Katie has remarked on. I don't really do fast drops anymore. I can't reliably do them without putting unacceptable stress on my and my wife's joints. And I suspect if I can't do it with a partner I've been competing with for several years, not many can do it in general freestyle.

Also there is still the age old rule of asking if the person you are dancing with is able to do these moves.

KatieR
5th-July-2005, 02:09 PM
Katie out of curiosity do Aussie girls have rubber bushes in their shoulders :whistle:
Maybe we have got it all wrong here, maybe it should not be about the next big thing in dance terms, but in body enhancements. eg stretchy arm extentions, sprung loaded legs etc :rofl:

darn.. .the secrets out!

KatieR
5th-July-2005, 02:15 PM
I would say that airsteps are not taught from a common sense perspective (not that that has stopped some instructors teaching them :angry: ). I would far prefer to see a focus on 'back to basics', dancers learning to dance rather than just learning moves etc.

Also to add on to Gus' point.. I dont think Aerials (or airsteps as they seem to be called here) should be taught in general lessons.. Only in specific workshops where the class is tailored for those moves with people spotting and on mats so that if anything does go wrong there is a very minimal chance of in injury occuring... if anyone IS learning aerials in a standard class I would seriously consider the professionalism of the teacher as it puts everyone in danger.

Rhythm King
5th-July-2005, 06:33 PM
Getting Steve Lampert off the ground!!!! Now theres a challenge. I think he even generates his own gravitational field - if the way ladies stick to him is anything to go by. If you need a hand with this one Andy, give me a call. I had better get off down to the gym.


You'd better do some serious working out - look what happened to the last person who tried! :really: And you're right, it looks like she's well and truly stuck to him...

R-K :wink:

Minnie M
5th-July-2005, 06:51 PM
.............I would far prefer to see a focus on 'back to basics', dancers learning to dance rather than just learning moves etc.
:yeah: :clap: :yeah: :clap: :yeah:

cerocmetro
11th-August-2007, 10:54 PM
Interesting that you should have brought this up just when we are about to release a new concept.

We have been working on a fusion of Kick boxing and Tango. It involves a lot of jumping up and down and we use "pneumatic tunes" utilising the delicate harmonies of a sledge hammer on concrete. We are calling it "Kango"

We have also started a lot of Blues into Tango, "Bango"

and of course Ceroc fused with Rhumba, Aerobics and Pole dancing. Struggling with a name for that one :devil:

Adam


Ah a post I wrote a wee while ago. I had completely forgotten about it until I received an email today about "BLANGO" at the Escape weekenders, well really come on lads :sick: I remember when Ceroc used to be spelt "gossip" but Blango?

And great marketing, a wedding, oi, vot an idea :clap: Congrats David and Val :cheers: about time :wink:

Blango, :rofl:

Raul
12th-August-2007, 01:37 AM
Blango, :rofl:

We know they already do Blues.
Well if they did a course on Swing, which is possible, as they are already dabbling with WCS,

they could have Bling - Bling!

cerocmetro
13th-August-2007, 05:39 AM
We know they already do Blues.
Well if they did a course on Swing, which is possible, as they are already dabbling with WCS,

they could have Bling - Bling!

I cant believe I missed that one, brilliant :respect:

Thetruth
14th-August-2007, 06:56 AM
- "Australian style" - don't ask me, but if I had to guess, it'd be "lots and lots of moves in a routine" :)

So not only do I not think there's a Next Big Thing, I'm not convinced there have been Previous Big Things...

Australian style is as varied as in the UK when it comes to Ceroc. Presently there is a big WCS influence, and three years ago it was funk and hip hop (but you could not tell now of any influence in the majority of dancers here). However, there are a few exceptions and they seem to be the more athletic types using hip hop and funk. As far as lots and lots of moves go, in your description I dont think this is as important as presenting style, technique, maintain form throughout the dance.
The influence of WCS is because so many cerocers in Australia have had very little dance training nor tried other styles and therefore, WCS gives them a sense of becoming a dancer (footwork is compulsory in WCS - unlike ceroc where nobody seems to bother with the technical aspects of the step footwork anymore). I know of people learning WCS and being so excited about stepping of the left foot for the lead (rather than right foot as in ceroc). Unfortunately, the WCS crew in Australia tend to think WCS is the answer to ceroc being more creative.

David Bailey
14th-August-2007, 10:02 AM
Australian style is as varied as in the UK when it comes to Ceroc.
We do have a specific "What is Aussie Style (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/lets-talk-about-dance/6869-what-aussie-style.html)" thread, which was quite interesting and probably could do with being refreshed :)

MartinHarper
14th-August-2007, 10:44 AM
Blango?

Aye, what's wrong with "Tango Blues"? Though, based on the likely content of the class, it should probably be called Blochoes.