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LMC
28th-June-2005, 12:12 AM
Following the moves theme...

OK, it was only a 2 choice question - Naff or not?

Whitebeard
28th-June-2005, 12:33 AM
Following the moves theme...

OK, it was only a 2 choice question - Naff or not?
The easy answer is yes; but done with conviction, style, attitude, musicality even, I'm pretty sure there's a place for it. But it's pretty well down to the lead and a follower can only make the best of what's offered.

Gadget
28th-June-2005, 08:57 AM
Now that we are no longer taught it with the 'elbow waggle' and it dosn't require the birdy song to do it justice, it's not that bad a filler move. Teaches how to lead a front-block and how to lead the lady to step away.
I think a couple of variations like stepping forward/backwards more than one step or leading the lady to continue the movement into another move would be a usefull thing. (that an minimising the 'circles' so that it is a led step forward & back: I think that the 'circle' thing can/does lead to ambiguous leads.)

David Bailey
28th-June-2005, 09:19 AM
Now that we are no longer taught it with the 'elbow waggle' and it dosn't require the birdy song to do it justice, it's not that bad a filler move. Teaches how to lead a front-block and how to lead the lady to step away.
I agree.

It's also a good move to use as a stabiliser - after a complex move or multiple spins, it allows the lady to re-orient herself without having to stand still looking dizzy or something :)

Nick M
28th-June-2005, 09:22 AM
Also a good move to fill in a beat or two, in order to get back into phase with the musical phrasing

JoC
28th-June-2005, 09:36 AM
or something :)
e.g startled bunny

Jazz_Shoes (Ash)
29th-June-2005, 03:03 PM
I like it! But only when it's done properly and doesn't look naff or stupid :devil: As a beginner I hated this move, but now i've grown to like it. I agree with Gadget that it is a nice filler move, and like David said, allows us ladies to get our breath back, especially after lots of spinning-that make me dizzy and lose my ballance :tears:

Ashx

eastmanjohn
29th-June-2005, 03:45 PM
Now that we are no longer taught it with the 'elbow waggle' and it dosn't require the birdy song to do it justice, it's not that bad a filler move. Teaches how to lead a front-block and how to lead the lady to step away.


So, following on the idea of which foot to step back on in the First Move (or any move for that matter)-which foot does the lady step back on when blocked and pushed back with her left hand? Presumably she steps back left foot. But how do you then follow this with a lead into a First Move if she is meant to be back on the right foot for the first beat?

jammy
29th-June-2005, 03:53 PM
i think the in and out is a good move a move witch is gr8 for a bit of eye contact if u like. but i think its also there for a reason for when u just need a bit of thinkin time or if ur tryin 2 chat 2 some 1. but nothing is worce than someone who cant get the right tention it there arms. jammy

MartinHarper
29th-June-2005, 05:07 PM
I used to call the In And Out "Squirrels" when I first learnt it at Ceroc Cheltenham. No doubt being totally rude and offensive to any woman present who was sensitive about her overbite, but there you go.


It's pretty well down to the lead and a follower can only make the best of what's offered.

I would say pretty much the opposite: all the guy is offering is a lead for her to move in by a few inches, and then a lead to move back by a few inches, all over four beats. Up to her how she wants to achieve that, and how she'll look doing it.

Gadget
30th-June-2005, 09:05 AM
So, following on the idea of which foot to step back on in the First Move (or any move for that matter)-which foot does the lady step back on when blocked and pushed back with her left hand? Presumably she steps back left foot. But how do you then follow this with a lead into a First Move if she is meant to be back on the right foot for the first beat?
The "in and out" is a two handed move, so I could lead her to step back on either foot. If I lead her back with the left hand only, then I would expect her to step back on her left, although it is possable to lead her to step back on the right while holding the left hand.

David Bailey
30th-June-2005, 09:21 AM
The "in and out" is a two handed move, so I could lead her to step back on either foot. If I lead her back with the left hand only, then I would expect her to step back on her left, although it is possable to lead her to step back on the right while holding the left hand.
Does it matter? I mean, you're putting both feet back anyway, so the order is surely up to the lady?

I go back first on my right I think, but that's just because it generally feels better to me.

Lou
30th-June-2005, 09:48 AM
Does it matter?
....tap....tap....tap..... :rolleyes:

David Bailey
30th-June-2005, 10:00 AM
....tap....tap....tap..... :rolleyes:
Which foot are you tapping with? :whistle:

Dance Demon
30th-June-2005, 10:49 AM
Which foot are you tapping with? :whistle:

presumably the one she's not standing on.......... :D

Andy McGregor
30th-June-2005, 12:14 PM
....tap....tap....tap..... :yeah:

IMHO, the follower steps back with the foot the leader indicates with their lead. If the leader doesn't indicate which foot the follower should move then it really doesn't matter - but only because you were going to have a rubbish dance anyway :devil:

David Bailey
30th-June-2005, 12:42 PM
IMHO, the follower steps back with the foot the leader indicates with their lead.
Generally, sure - but isn't the in-and-out a totally symmetric lead anyway? I guess that then the most aesthetically-pleasing version is if both step back on the same side.

Can't believe I'm expending brainpower (well, some) on this...

eastmanjohn
30th-June-2005, 12:44 PM
:yeah:

IMHO, the follower steps back with the foot the leader indicates with their lead. If the leader doesn't indicate which foot the follower should move then it really doesn't matter - but only because you were going to have a rubbish dance anyway :devil:

Highjacked thread here, sorry, should be in the thread on First Move footwork but.....

I was watching some video last night of people dancing. If there is a push from the man's left hand into the lady's right hand on teh "and" preceding count 1 her weight is pushed onto the right foot, but as this happens on the "and" of the count, on 1 she can have then stepped back again on her left foot.

If you say the lady steps back on her right foot on 1 because she is led back by her right hand, what happens on the "and" that precedes the 1?

I'm putting something together for you Andy which shows the "Bristol LeRoc shuffle" as you like to call it and why it happens when you dance with Bristol women!! I'll try and get it done by the weekend.

ElaineB
30th-June-2005, 01:13 PM
I'm putting something together for you Andy which shows the "Bristol LeRoc shuffle" as you like to call it and why it happens when you dance with Bristol women!! I'll try and get it done by the weekend.

John,

Do we? Really??? Can you show me this tomorrow night please, as I am very intrigued!

Elaine

Lou
30th-June-2005, 01:29 PM
Do we? Really???
You need to get John to walk you through his theories in order to best appreciate his points. Someone said (BigDJiver?), on the techy thread, just how hard it is to describe a dance move, or footwork, or whatever, here in writing. :nice:

(And to hijack it further... Elmgrove's gonna be very busy tomorrow. Maurice is bringing a busload from P'head & even the Yatians are coming out to play... :) )

clevedonboy
30th-June-2005, 01:42 PM
(And to hijack it further... Elmgrove's gonna be very busy tomorrow. Maurice is bringing a busload from P'head & even the Yatians are coming out to play... :) )

I'll be off to the doctor this PM to make sure that I've had the necessary jabs ....

Gary from Taunton was encouraging people to come up from there as well - he's judging tomorrow.

I'm sure we'll get some people from Nailsea as well tonight so it will be very cosmopolitan.

Hijack further - talking about busloads From The Darwin Awards 2005:

"After stopping for drinks at an illegal bar, a Zimbabwean bus driver found that the 20 mental patients he was supposed to be transporting from Harare to Bulawayo had escaped. Not wanting to admit his incompetence, the driver went to a nearby bus stop and offered everyone waiting there a free ride. He then delivered the passengers to the mental hospital, telling the staff that the patients were very excitable and prone to bizarre fantasies.

The deception wasn't discovered for 3 days."

(not that I'm suggesting anything about residents of Portishead, but bear in mind that they have road signs warniing of low flying owls).

I'll put the rest in Fun & Games if nobody has done so already

Tessalicious
30th-June-2005, 02:27 PM
I'll put the rest in Fun & Games if nobody has done so already Please do, I'm bored and my work intranet won't let me accesd the original site :tears: !

Andy McGregor
30th-June-2005, 04:50 PM
Highjacked thread here, sorry, should be in the thread on First Move footwork but.....

I was watching some video last night of people dancing. If there is a push from the man's left hand into the lady's right hand on teh "and" preceding count 1 her weight is pushed onto the right foot, but as this happens on the "and" of the count, on 1 she can have then stepped back again on her left foot.

If you say the lady steps back on her right foot on 1 because she is led back by her right hand, what happens on the "and" that precedes the 1
John is completely right on this. If you lead the lady back she will step back with the unweighted foot - whichever foot that is. But, if the first move is the first move then she should always step back on her right, IMHO. Don't LeRoc in Bristol teach them to step back on their left? :confused:

ElaineB
30th-June-2005, 08:20 PM
(And to hijack it further... Elmgrove's gonna be very busy tomorrow. Maurice is bringing a busload from P'head & even the Yatians are coming out to play... :) )

And are they bringing their space ships with them??? There are Space Ships over Yatton you know - the Pink Fairies said so! (In joke for those from the West Country!!).

Elaine

Gadget
30th-June-2005, 10:08 PM
:confused: so who's coming down from Peterhead then? I didn't think Franck's empire went that far (yet).

Lou
1st-July-2005, 07:18 AM
There are Space Ships over Yatton you know - the Pink Fairies said so! Ahh... but my Yatians's come from Yate! (But there will be creatures from Yatton, too....) :rofl:

Lou
1st-July-2005, 07:24 AM
IMHO, the follower steps back with the foot the leader indicates with their lead. If the leader doesn't indicate which foot the follower should move then it really doesn't matter - but only because you were going to have a rubbish dance anyway :devil:
Tried it last night.

Nobody leads a particular foot back for the In and Out. There's a horrid semi-circle of the arms going on with the vast majority of the dancers, and the leaders seem to apply pressure equally to both the followers hands - so footwork is irrelevent™.

(Please, oh Goddess of Modern Jive Dancing, I beseach you never to allow this awful move to enter the hallowed turf of LeRoc).

David Bailey
1st-July-2005, 08:00 AM
There's a horrid semi-circle of the arms going on with the vast majority of the dancers
Hey, don't diss the semi-circle! It's all in technique - any move (OK, except the Pretzel :) ) can look good if done with enough style. I remember Mike Ellard used to do (possibly still does!) a simple step-back in freestyle; but it looked fantastic - double semi-circle, dramatic pause at the end, look away, then slowly move in.


so footwork is irrelevent™.
Says the Man who just spent ages wibbling on about Leroc shuffles or something - I can't remember exactly, I fell asleep reading it... :whistle:

Lou
1st-July-2005, 08:05 AM
Says the Man who just spent ages wibbling on about Leroc shuffles or something - I can't remember exactly, I fell asleep reading it... :whistle: :na: Am I male today? Fair enough. :)

I reserve my right to wibble about LeRoc footwork. For it is important. :whistle: :rofl:

David Bailey
1st-July-2005, 08:30 AM
:na: Am I male today? Fair enough. :)
When you're geeking about footwork, yes. :innocent:

MartinHarper
1st-July-2005, 11:06 AM
Isn't the in-and-out a totally symmetric lead anyway?

Normally, yeah, and there's no reason to even attempt to lead specific feet during the move (IMO, as ever). The lead for the very last "out" can be non-symmetric, though, if a guy wants a specific foot back.

Mr Cool
1st-July-2005, 05:41 PM
[QUOTE=Lou]Tried it last night.

Nobody leads a particular foot back for the In and Out. There's a horrid semi-circle of the arms going on with the vast majority of the dancers, and the leaders seem to apply pressure equally to both the followers hands - so footwork is irrelevent™.

Surely it is the ladies first priority to follow the mans lead. How she does that is up to each lady she should step back, shimmy or interpret the music how she wants. The beauty of MJ is there are no hard fast rules
:waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

ElaineB
3rd-July-2005, 08:55 AM
Tried it last night.

Nobody leads a particular foot back for the In and Out. There's a horrid semi-circle of the arms going on with the vast majority of the dancers, and the leaders seem to apply pressure equally to both the followers hands - so footwork is irrelevent™.

(Please, oh Goddess of Modern Jive Dancing, I beseach you never to allow this awful move to enter the hallowed turf of LeRoc).

Yup, I asked two teachers to lead a first move with me on Friday - they moved me back with their left hand onto my right, so I stepped back onto my right foot. I understand however, that when the first move is taught, that the 'c' is the first part of the move and then the lady steps back on her left. I really can't get my head around this. Why? What good can that possibly have?

Elaine