Footwork on the basket

[robd]

One of the beginner's moves I was struggling with was the basket. I could do it but always found myself stepping back on the left foot so there was never the separation between myself and the lady on the step back. Now that I force myself to step back on the right foot it flows much, much better and I am much happier doing it. In our classes we are always told that the first move is the only move in beginners where the man's footwork matters (i.e where you have to use a certain foot). I really feel this is wrong and that for the basket the man should be taught to step back on the right foot. I know there's a balance between accessibility for novices and complexity of moves but for me had I been taught this in beginners class it would have made the move easier to lead and carry out properly.

[CJ]

I'm sorry to say Robd that, on this occasion, the right foot is actually the wrong foot and the left foot is, believe it or not, the right foot. I know the left foot feels like the wrong foot. You may even feel the the right foot is the right foot, but once you learn to lean with your partner, you will fully ralise that all this time the right foot has actually been actually the left foot.

I hope this clears that up for you. :D

[David Bailey]

You know, I'm not sure there's a correct / incorrect foot to step back on for this - although I'd probably step back on the right too, that would I think feel more natural.

But most of the time I don't really step back at all in the basket, so I dunno if that's a good guide. :)

The excellent jiveoholic site (http://www.jiveoholic.org.uk) just says "step back", doesn't say on which foot. So as long as it works, I'd say leave it at what feels best for you.

[Stuart]

I've always been taught that you can do it with either foot.

Personally I find that I can do it better slowly using the right foot and quicker using the left foot, if this makes any sense!

[Lounge Lizard]

I'm sorry to say Robd that, on this occasion, the right foot is actually the wrong foot and the left foot is, believe it or not, the right foot. I know the left foot feels like the wrong foot. You may even feel the the right foot is the right foot, but once you learn to lean with your partner, you will fully ralise that all this time the right foot has actually been actually the left foot.

I hope this clears that up for you. :D
sorry i disagree - stepping back on the Right enables many variations & leads from the Basket sway that flow easier IMHO with right foot back
Peter

[Lou]

I've always been taught that you can do it with either foot.

Personally I find that I can do it better slowly using the right foot and quicker using the left foot, if this makes any sense!
I actually like a variation where both partners do a tiny step back with the inside foot on the "and" count, and both step back on the outside foot on count 3. It just flows so nicely... :drool:

[CJ]

sorry i disagree - stepping back on the Right enables many variations & leads from the Basket sway that flow easier IMHO with right foot back
Peter

You took that seriously?!?!?!!? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Lounge Lizard]

You took that seriously?!?!?!!? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:yup :wink:

[MartinHarper]

Stepping back left, mirroring the woman, works better going into walkies. In particular, it makes the basket walkaround work.
Stepping forward left creates a different dynamic that works well for some exits. In particular, there's a basket exit which spins the girl a couple of times anti-clockwise into a face-to-face close hold.
Stepping back right can line our hips up in the same direction, so I can mess around with wiggles and grinds and things.
Stepping forward right is non-standard, so I avoid it unless I have something specific in mind.
Standing still is acceptable, but lazy.

There are some geometry issues for folks with larger bodies and shorter arms, which can make stepping back left awkward.

At some point I want to try Basketed Suzy Q's, which will require stepping back right...

[Lou]

....grinds and things....
Perv!

Burn him!

[Stuart]

I actually like a variation where both partners do a tiny step back with the inside foot on the "and" count, and both step back on the outside foot on count 3. It just flows so nicely... :drool:

I'll have to try that.

[Jive Brummie]

One of the beginner's moves I was struggling with was the basket. I could do it but always found myself stepping back on the left foot so there was never the separation between myself and the lady on the step back. Now that I force myself to step back on the right foot it flows much, much better and I am much happier doing it. In our classes we are always told that the first move is the only move in beginners where the man's footwork matters (i.e where you have to use a certain foot). I really feel this is wrong and that for the basket the man should be taught to step back on the right foot. I know there's a balance between accessibility for novices and complexity of moves but for me had I been taught this in beginners class it would have made the move easier to lead and carry out properly.

robd,

The only footwork required in a beginners basket is that as the leader you step back, (not forward or to the side...just back). This can be with either foot. Personnally I step back with my right foot, the same as the lady. I do this because not only does it feel easier but i think it looks nicer as if you were shadowing your partner. Stepping back with the leaders left tends to give a slightly detached look IMO and then possibly feels a little awkward depending on the length of your arms.

If you have arms like a monkey....then no probs.

Anything other than stepping back (with either foot for the leader remember) in a beginners basket would be classed as a basket variation as it deviates from the classic beginner move.

J

[David Bailey]

Standing still is acceptable, but lazy.
By Jove, I think I've found my new sig...


At some point I want to try Basketed Suzy Q's, which will require stepping back right...
:confused: How do they work then?

It's times like this, I wish I remembered what my ceroc teachers told me...

[robd]

I think we're in agreement. The point I was trying to get across initially is that I think it would benefit beginners generally if a clear instruction as to which foot to step back on was given in beginners class. I know this goes a bit against the 'no footwork to learn' ceroc mantra but for me would have made getting to grips with that particular move more rapid. I guess the argument against (as has been made by some others) is that it could confuse people moving to intermediate basket variants which would be simpler coming off a left foot step back if they had always been taught to step back on the right.


robd,

The only footwork required in a beginners basket is that as the leader you step back, (not forward or to the side...just back). This can be with either foot. Personnally I step back with my right foot, the same as the lady. I do this because not only does it feel easier but i think it looks nicer as if you were shadowing your partner. Stepping back with the leaders left tends to give a slightly detached look IMO and then possibly feels a little awkward depending on the length of your arms.

[Gadget]

It used to be taught to step back on the left, so it worked in a similar way to the "twist out" bit of the first move, except that the lady has her arms folded.
The 'new' way of spcifically saying that you can step back on either foot is quite recent (well, in my span of dancing anyway :blush: )

In the same way that the basket seems more "connected" with the lead stepping back on the right, the first move can feel just as smooth if you step back on the right; I'm just waiting for that to be ammended as well.

My theory is that the Cronins (et all) were trying to make all the moves as open and detached from your partner as you could be while maintaining contact and leading/following. Maintaining some illusion that it was a "decent" dance and did not offend anyone: no close moves. {but that's just my theory based on what I've read here}

[Andy McGregor]

My theory is that the Cronins (et all) were trying to make all the moves as open and detached from your partner as you could be while maintaining contact and leading/following. Maintaining some illusion that it was a "decent" dance and did not offend anyone: no close moves. {but that's just my theory based on what I've read here}I think this is true. And I think it's a bit like the layout of the QWERTY keyboard - which was initially invented to slow down typing as the early mechanical typewriters couldn't go very fast! So now we have a legacy of moves which don't work very well because they involve the dancers turning away from each other instead of working together on moves - because the moves were developed to turn away from our partners rather than to make the dance easy or look good.

I can remember being taught to go back with my left foot at Ceroc classes in both the sway and the basket and you can see it being done this way all over the place. In case people are in any doubt, Nigel Anderson says 'guys back RIGHT'. And he is always right ...

[Jive Brummie]

I agree, stepping back right is the best way, it reduces any possibility of having the leads right foot trodden on, looks nicer and to be perfectly honest...is easier to do.

'Tis nice to be given the option though.

I normally say to my class in Perth that they can step back on either foot but I tend to step back on my right for all the above reasons....that way they can make their own minds up.

J

[Gadget]

IAnd I think it's a bit like the layout of the QWERTY keyboard - which was initially invented to slow down typing as the early mechanical typewriters couldn't go very fast!
Actually it was to prevent the hammers jamming together when they hit the page; the most common used furthest away so that there is less likleyhood of one stroke colliding with the previous one on it's way back. (I learned to type on one I had at home... damn painfull when your fingers got trapped between the keys... and when your brother hammered the keys as your fingers were on the page :tears: ).
So it's only a half-truth that it was to slow the typist down.

[David Bailey]

My theory is that the Cronins (et all) were trying to make all the moves as open and detached from your partner as you could be while maintaining contact and leading/following.
Hmmm, sounds plausible to me...

[jiveoholic]

The excellent jiveoholic site (http://www.jiveoholic.org.uk) just says "step back", doesn't say on which foot. So as long as it works, I'd say leave it at what feels best for you.

This is the most common dialect of jive. At http://www.jiveoholic.org.uk/handbooks/lerocfeet.asp (http://www.jiveoholic.org.uk/handbooks/lerocfeet.asp) it explains (as best as one can!) the LeRoc version.

[Lou]

This is the most common dialect of jive. At http://www.jiveoholic.org.uk/handbooks/lerocfeet.asp (http://www.jiveoholic.org.uk/handbooks/lerocfeet.asp) it explains (as best as one can!) the LeRoc version.
Awww! That's fab. I hope you don't mind me pinching a quote for my sig... :)