Do you need a beat/base-line to dance?

[Gadget]

It occured to me while I was reading some Dr Zeus to my kids, that there is rhythm within the verse. And then I remembered Tom's Diner (the original by Suzanne Vega). What about some of Enya's stuff?

Would people find it too hard to dance to? I think it would be... interesting.

[Magic Hans]

I was idly considering how I might define what dancing was, and figured that, at it's simplest level, dancing is moving the body to a regular rhythm.

And so, by that definition, I need the context of a rhythm to which to dance ... even if there is no music. However, I sometimes find myself practicing moves in my own time, when, if there is no external source of rhythm, I have to create a rhythm in my imagination.

If the question is asking whether I need a heavy (drum-like) beat, then my answer is no, so long as I can figure out the regularity of the rhythm, I can dance to it!

Does this answer anything?

!an

[Whitebeard]

If the question is asking whether I need a heavy (drum-like) beat, then my answer is no, so long as I can figure out the regularity of the rhythm, I can dance to it!

Does it even have to be a regular beat - drum or otherwise ?? I have a folksy sort of track, "Sailor's Prayer" by Wild Mountain Thyme, which is purely vocal (plainsong?) which really moves me and to which, in my head, I love to dance along with. But, how many followers I wonder, could follow me into that particular groove ??

[bigdjiver]

Gene Kelly allegedly did a dance sequence for a film without any music. Andre Previn orchestrated it later. I did a pre-champs warm-up, sharing the floor with another couple, without music, and got a superb "connection". I suspect that most experienced leaders and followers would have no difficulty in dancing without music.

More controversially, I suspect that sometimes some leaders are dancing to their own favourite version of a track in their head, rather than the one being played.

[David Franklin]

Gene Kelly allegedly did a dance sequence for a film without any music. Andre Previn orchestrated it later. I did a pre-champs warm-up, sharing the floor with another couple, without music, and got a superb "connection". I suspect that most experienced leaders and followers would have no difficulty in dancing without music.I think dancing without music is somewhat different from dancing to music without a base-line. I'd agree, most experienced dancers can manage with no music - it's not very different from what you do in classes, most of the time. But I do find it a struggle dancing to a track with no real base-line; the biggest problem is there is usually still some "detectable" rhythm (e.g. from the lyrics), but it's usually neither the right rhythm to dance to, nor particularly consistent. But it's enough to throw me off - I'll keep dropping to half speed to be "on beat" with the singer, or whatever. :sick: A lot of the tracks I'd like to do cabarets to fall into this category, and it's more than a little frustrating!

One conclusion I've come to, (and had a few agreements from dancers I respect) - with a track like that, it's probably more important to dance to the 'phrasing' than anything else. With no baseline, the most appropriate moves will all be very much on the smooth side, and so what beat you're on isn't going to be glaringly obvious anyhow.

[Amir]

It is possible to dance without a rhythm?

Go to any beginner class and there is normally at least one person of whom you could say 'that person is dancing with absolutely no rhythm'.

Of course, they are doing it by accident, but there is no reason why you could not do it deliberately, if you wanted.

If you are now good at dancing to the rhythm then anything else will feel unnatural. Dancing to the beat is a hard habit to beat.

(Dancing with no rhythm is still actually easier than dancing to the half beat, though.)

Can you dance to music without a beat or rhythm?

Some music or parts of music have no rhythm, or beat. You can still dance to this music, and have several options. You can create and overlay your own rhythm. You can try dancing to the phrasing of the music (ie matching movements to the lengths and occurrences of certain sounds, even though these do not occur at regular intervals as a normal rhythm would). You can also simply dance with absolutely no rhythm, as mentioned above. Think of it as impressionistic dancing. Or dancing like an impressionist would paint.

Does speech and poetry have a danceable rhythm?

Gadget is right about speech often having rhythm. People who are pleasant to listen to and have soothing voices often have a clear rhythm to the way they talk. Poetry has traditionally emphasised rhythm, but in recent times has deliberately ignored it, along with rhyme and logic etc.

Most people however talk with no real sense of rhythm, even if there is music playing. In most movies, for example, the actors do not talk along to the soundtrack, which is simply there to add a certain mood or atmosphere. In ‘American Beauty,’ however, the actors deliberately spoke in the same rhythm and timing as the soundtrack. This is one of the ways they created such a hypnotic effect to that film.

You have the same options with your dancing. You can dance to the same rhythm as the music, or ignore the music's rhythm completly but use the music for its mood, as if it were the soundtrack to the movements you were doing.

Are there other fun artistic options to try as a spontaneous choreographer?

Using your movement to ‘create’ or ‘initiate’ the sound. This would mean you would be dancing ahead of the rhythm.

Allowing the sound to ‘inspire’ the movement. This would mean you would be dancing behind the rhythm. Some jazz dancers and lindy hoppers do this. Kind of drag the beat out like Billie Holiday sings.

Dragging the phrase into existence. This would mean you are an entire phrase ahead of the music.

Most onlookers will think you’re crazy. But I’ll appreciate it. It’s best to practise with ‘free movement’ without a partner first if you want to do any of this in ceroc.

On the social dance floor your probably want to stick to dancing what we consider ‘on the beat’ most of the time.

Except at a certain t-dance where more experimental dancing is encouraged. Perhaps its time to re-introduce the freestyle challenge.

Could I ask any more wacky questions about dance theory that will probably never be put into practise?

Yes. But give me time.

[under par]

It is possible to dance without a rhythm?


Except at a certain t-dance where more experimental dancing is encouraged. Perhaps its time to re-introduce the freestyle challenge.

:confused: Please elaborate!

[Amir]

:confused: Please elaborate!

Which bit you confused about?

The freestyle challange?

We used to play a half hour of supposedly undancable music at the Sunday T-Jive and see what creative solutions people came up with in their dancing. Since a lot of the music played at the T-Jive would never be played at other venues anyway, this kind-off devolved out of existence. But now I've been thinking that perhaps there is room for a few more challenging pieces of music to inspire you.

[under par]

Which bit you confused about?

The freestyle challange?

We used to play a half hour of supposedly undancable music at the Sunday T-Jive and see what creative solutions people came up with in their dancing. Since a lot of the music played at the T-Jive would never be played at other venues anyway, this kind-off devolved out of existence. But now I've been thinking that perhaps there is room for a few more challenging pieces of music to inspire you.

It was the freestyle challege I did not understand.

I now do, thanks for the clarification.

I wouldn't mind trying it out too.

[David Bailey]

We used to play a half hour of supposedly undancable music at the Sunday T-Jive and see what creative solutions people came up with in their dancing. Since a lot of the music played at the T-Jive would never be played at other venues anyway, this kind-off devolved out of existence.
Nah, the "30 minutes of undanceable music" challenge just moved to ... err, another venue... :whistle:

[Magic Hans]

It is possible to dance without a rhythm?

Go to any beginner class and there is normally at least one person of whom you could say 'that person is dancing with absolutely no rhythm'.
...
Agreed ... but what are we actually meaning when we say that?

I'd be meaning that the said person was trying to find the rhythm (as well as all the other things (s)he was trying to do), and not quite getting it. Result? Some awkwardness.

Can you dance to music without a beat or rhythm?

Some music or parts of music have no rhythm, or beat ...
Hmmm Agreed again, for some exceptional (and I'd guess, usually contemporary music). As a piano player, I note that all pieces that I play have a time signature, be it 2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 5/8, 3/2, 7/8, etc oh, and of course, may include pauses either on notes or rests. And so that music, by definitition, has some manner of timing which is what I'm calling rhythm.

As far as I can see, that timing helps, in some manner, the predictability of that music, and so, without having heard a particular piece of music before, I can often predict the start and end of musical phrases to build into my dancing.

The only way that I can see that I can dance with a partner to music that has no possible predictability, is if both of us know that music very well.


Does speech and poetry have a danceable rhythm?

...Most people however talk with no real sense of rhythm, even if there is music playing...
Interesting one this. Certainly, I agree that most of us have little or no fixed rhythm when talking (like much poetry has), but I think that I would argue that rhythm is one of the characteristics of speech.

I know of some voices that I can happily listen to for hours, and I suspect that the 'hypnotic' quality stems more from the rhythm of that voice (with all its changes) more that any other if it's characteristics.

Personally, I would argue that partner dancing to something with no rhythm is nigh on impossible, without practice to that piece, where it is simply reduced to very difficult!

As for solo dancing, well that can be done to anything.

[Tessalicious]

As a piano player, I note that all pieces that I play have a time signature, be it 2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 5/8, 3/2, 7/8, etc oh, and of course, may include pauses either on notes or rests. And so that music, by definitition, has some manner of timing which is what I'm calling rhythm.

As a piano player, you should probably know that the time signature of a piece or song technically provides that music with a beat or pulse, not a rhythm. The pulse is the fundamental framework of any music and, for most people (excepting Amir, who I'm not surprised to learn really can do anything on the dancefloor :worthy: ) this is what provides something to dance 'to'. The pulse is what makes a song jive, tango, rumba, waltz etc, so if you're dancing the correct style to the song, you need to feel the pulse to be dancing to the music.

As far as intentionally dancing off the pulse is concerned - this has parallels in jazz, where you need to know the core pulse and key before you can bend it - in dancing we can mess around with where in the beat we dance but only if we know where the beats are, which is extremely different from a beginner, or any other dancer for that matter, who is dancing when there is music playing but is oblivious to the pulse and so not actually dancing to that music. This is where rhythm comes in (the rhythm being the spacing with which notes of a musical line is played within a pulse) - dancing off-beat but on-rhythm (where the rhythm is syncopated, or intentionally off beat) can be highly effective if led well (or back led :whistle: ).

And then there are breaks, where no pulse is being provided by a thumping bass line or drums. Now, I'm sure someone will be able come up with an example to prove me wrong on this one, but in my experience, if you count through a break, the provided beat will resume exactly in pulse with what went before, so an exact number of beats will have been passed in the break. Therefore the break has a pulse, just not one that is played for you - so if a guy doesn't want to hit a break into a drop or stance and not move on til the beat comes back, its kinda important to keep the pulse by feeling it until it comes back so that you can go fluently into and out of breaks.

Ok I think its time for me to stop being a musical snob and leave you good people alone.

[Feelingpink]

...We used to play a half hour of supposedly undancable music at the Sunday T-Jive and see what creative solutions people came up with in their dancing. Since a lot of the music played at the T-Jive would never be played at other venues anyway, this kind-off devolved out of existence. But now I've been thinking that perhaps there is room for a few more challenging pieces of music to inspire you.
Bring it on! :clap:

[Banana Man]

Gene Kelly allegedly did a dance sequence for a film without any music. Andre Previn orchestrated it later. I did a pre-champs warm-up, sharing the floor with another couple, without music, and got a superb "connection". I suspect that most experienced leaders and followers would have no difficulty in dancing without music.
Cool, I like dancing without music sometimes, but with a partner of course.

What about dancing with a partner without any hold or contact? Really builds awareness, and great for swapping lead and follow.


More controversially, I suspect that sometimes some leaders are dancing to their own favourite version of a track in their head, rather than the one being played.
:rofl: :rofl: Surely not!

On a separate note: I'm trying to learn WCS but struggling to work out how to link 6 beat and 8 beat moves together to the music. Are there particular songs that suit only 6 beat moves and is that connected to the time signature or phrasing? If you mix 6/8/? beat moves, how easy is it to join them together? Is the same issue applicable to Lindy or other swing dances? :confused:

[ChrisA]

But now I've been thinking that perhaps there is room for a few more challenging pieces of music to inspire you.
.... :yeah:

Bring back the freestyle challenge !!!! :clap:

[SwingSwingSwing]

On a separate note: I'm trying to learn WCS but struggling to work out how to link 6 beat and 8 beat moves together to the music. Are there particular songs that suit only 6 beat moves and is that connected to the time signature or phrasing? If you mix 6/8/? beat moves, how easy is it to join them together? Is the same issue applicable to Lindy or other swing dances? :confused:

The same issue happens in Lindy. If you start a 6 beat move on the "1" of the music, doing another three 6 beat moves will get you back onto the "1".

Four 6 beat moves = 24 beats
Three 8 beat moves = 24 beats.

This is probably the easiest way to to think about it when starting out.

Hope that helps

SwingSwingSwing

[Rhythm King]

On a separate note: I'm trying to learn WCS but struggling to work out how to link 6 beat and 8 beat moves together to the music. Are there particular songs that suit only 6 beat moves and is that connected to the time signature or phrasing? If you mix 6/8/? beat moves, how easy is it to join them together? Is the same issue applicable to Lindy or other swing dances? :confused:

As a relative beginner in WCS, my understanding is that good swing and WCS music is typically 32 beats to a phrase. You can get 4 x 8 beat moves, or 4 x 6 beats and an 8 beat in to a phrase. The moves are syncopated so you, or the follower, can play around with stretching out, or speeding up moves and there are lots variations to add time, eg breaks, pop outs, marking time while the follower does something interesting, etc. Of course there's nothing to stop you dancing acroos the phrase, if that's what you want to do.

I am open to correction if this understanding is wrong.

R-K

[Banana Man]

Thanks SSS and RK.

That's what I thought, someone else had suggested an alternative.

I do like the idea of practicing 6 beat moves to waltz (think that was DavidB :worthy: ), nice trick if you can do it. They don't play enough Waltz's! where I dance :wink: Might have to go to Slinky's this week to try it out - I finally got a free invitation (ESG - it works - don't go for a while and they tempt you back.)

[DavidB]

On a separate note: I'm trying to learn WCS but struggling to work out how to link 6 beat and 8 beat moves together to the music. Are there particular songs that suit only 6 beat moves and is that connected to the time signature or phrasing? If you mix 6/8/? beat moves, how easy is it to join them together?Not the first time I've been asked about this.

The only difference between 6-beat and 8-beat moves is that 8-beat moves take 2 beats longer. There is no special secret to it. Typically you use this extra time for the lady to go all the way round the man and back to where she started.

The footwork is different, so the man has to lead an 8 beat move. This is done by giving a second lead in the middle of a move. When the lady gets this second lead, she will change her footwork. Presumably the man will know to change his...

They are easy to join together. All WCS moves (6-beat or 8-beat) finish with an anchor step, and the next move starts with the lady stepping forward on her right foot.

There isn't some music that you have to just do 8-beat moves, or just 6-beat moves (unless you are doing WCS to a waltz. But why bother - a waltz looks better.)

What you can aim to do is to try to start a new move at the start of a phrase (ie a verse or chorus). Some people will do this by keeping track of how many 6-beat and 8-beat moves they do. eg a pop song with 32 beats in a phrase means you can do four 6-beat moves and one 8-beat move to make up the 32 beats.

But the other thing that WCS makes easy is extending moves. So if you think you are going to be finishing 4 beats early, then extend the move by 4 beats. I find this a whole lot simpler than keeping track of the moves.

DavidB

[Amir]

Agreed ... but what are we actually meaning when we say that?

I'd be meaning that the said person was trying to find the rhythm (as well as all the other things (s)he was trying to do), and not quite getting it. Result? Some awkwardness.



I'm talking about the people who are not aware they should be dancing with rhythm and are therefor showing no attempt to find it. In their ignorance lies their bliss.

But they are just one example to show that it is possible to dance without rhythm, ie, without any disernable and re-occuring pulse to your movements.

You can clap without rhythm. You can play excellent melodies without rhythm. (check out Debussy - Prelude a l'apres midi d'un faune. Although this is I think in 9/8 time signiture I think you would agree the melody as played on the flute has no identifiable rhythm.) And you can dance without rhythm.






Personally, I would argue that partner dancing to something with no rhythm is nigh on impossible, without practice to that piece, where it is simply reduced to very difficult!

As for solo dancing, well that can be done to anything.

If it can be done solo, it can be done partnered. When you are leading every component of a move then you can lead the timing and absence of it equally well.

Difficult, but far from impossible. Johnny of Beach Boogie fame said he liked to take his partner off the beat then back on just to prove wrong the people who said his dancing was all pre-choreographed.

[RogerR]

Beginners dance to the beat, intermediates to the beat and back beat, advanced to the phrase and form of the music. If a couple are similarly inspired then they can dance around the entire structure of the sound.

I think it depends on the aim point of the dancers. For a pleasant social dance with a neo-random partner, some stimulating music but not too chalenging. for a pro cabaret an inspired music helps immensely.

[Mr Cool]

Beginners dance to the beat, intermediates to the beat and back beat, advanced to the phrase and form of the music. If a couple are similarly inspired then they can dance around the entire structure of the sound.

I think it depends on the aim point of the dancers. For a pleasant social dance with a neo-random partner, some stimulating music but not too chalenging. for a pro cabaret an inspired music helps immensely.

Lets face it the majority of dancers new and experienced ( including champions). not just MJ I include Lindy hoppers, WCs., Salsa and Ballroom totally ignore the music. To them sadly the MOVE is KING. To the talented minority of dancers and some lucky people have this ability without a single lesson the MUSIC and music interpretation RULE. Why do people want to dance to such uninspiring music This pre occupation with 8 beat 6 beat moves counting and musical phrases is overated. i recommend listen to the music, feel it, live it, move with it, dance with attitude and work on your musicality and syncopations. :waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

[David Bailey]

Lets face it the majority of dancers new and experienced ( including champions). not just MJ I include Lindy hoppers, WCs., Salsa and Ballroom totally ignore the music. To them sadly the MOVE is KING. To the talented minority of dancers and some lucky people have this ability without a single lesson the MUSIC and music interpretation RULE. Why do people want to dance to such uninspiring music This pre occupation with 8 beat 6 beat moves counting and musical phrases is overated. i recommend listen to the music, feel it, live it, move with it, dance with attitude and work on your musicality and syncopations. :waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:
There's a good point buried somewhere there... :grin:

I agree, musical interpretation is lacking in lots of us (I don't want to admit how many years it took me to realize that I should tailor the dance to the music, it's too depressing :blush: ).

But, as with all these things, I believe discipline, training and understanding of structure matters - it helps to know the rules well before you can break them well. Or, you need rhythm to be able to dance out of rhythm... :)

So I'm going to listen very attentively to comments from people such as DavidB and Amir, as I understand they may know a little about the topic.

(For what it's worth, almost no-one in salsa interprets the music at all, so I think MJ is well ahead of salsa in that area.)

[clevedonboy]

Lets face it the majority of dancers new and experienced ( including champions). not just MJ I include Lindy hoppers, WCs., Salsa and Ballroom totally ignore the music. To them sadly the MOVE is KING. To the talented minority of dancers and some lucky people have this ability without a single lesson the MUSIC and music interpretation RULE. Why do people want to dance to such uninspiring music This pre occupation with 8 beat 6 beat moves counting and musical phrases is overated. i recommend listen to the music, feel it, live it, move with it, dance with attitude and work on your musicality and syncopations. :waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

As somebody who is often complimented on my musical understanding (for want of a better expression) I find this comment patronising BS - I don't ignore the music & I know lots of others who feel the same way. yes listen to the music etc etc but if "mere mortals" can't "feel" the music (and I can't feel the music on a lot of occassions even if I'm "good" at it) then you need to resort to other strategies. Learning musical stucture is something that any dancer will benefit from (I couldn't begin to explain it to somebody BTW but I know people who can).

I'm too inexperienced a dancer to comment on the unworthiness of 8 & 6 beat moves but I've seen some staggeringly good examples of people doing just that (and I think that they interpret the music for good measure).

Please give us a brief lesson in "dance with attitude and work on your musicality and syncopations" 'cos I think that's what takes most of us a lifetime to accomplish.

[Magic Hans]

Lets face it the majority of dancers new and experienced ( including champions). not just MJ I include Lindy hoppers, WCs., Salsa and Ballroom totally ignore the music. To them sadly the MOVE is KING. To the talented minority of dancers and some lucky people have this ability without a single lesson the MUSIC and music interpretation RULE. Why do people want to dance to such uninspiring music This pre occupation with 8 beat 6 beat moves counting and musical phrases is overated. i recommend listen to the music, feel it, live it, move with it, dance with attitude and work on your musicality and syncopations. :waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

... this is my belief ..... to a degree. Not that the music is totally ignored, but that it tends to play 2nd fiddle to moves, for a number of reasons, good and bad.

We live in a culture where the head and intellect rule, and is rewarded. The sports and arts are not .... generally (except for that lucky 1% or so).

And so, our consiousness is so often in head, and not in body. It's not easy to 'feel' the music/rhythm when not fully in body.

!an

[Magic Hans]

...
You can clap without rhythm. You can play excellent melodies without rhythm. (check out Debussy - Prelude a l'apres midi d'un faune. Although this is I think in 9/8 time signiture I think you would agree the melody as played on the flute has no identifiable rhythm.) And you can dance without rhythm.

I take your point, Amir, and will bow to your greater knowledge and wisdom. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't feel that I could dance to no rhythm without great (perhaps insurmountable) difficulty on my own, and especially with a partner.

More to the point, I don't think that I can even conceptualise either moving to, or music with no rhythm!!

Ian

PS Incidentally, I'm also not the time of person to blindly accept (agree on) anyone's opinion/viewpoint, no matter their reputation. I will, however, listen harder to some than others!!

[David Bailey]

Incidentally, I'm also not the time of person to blindly accept (agree on) anyone's opinion/viewpoint, no matter their reputation.
Oh, I am that type of person :)

Oh, hold on. you meant me, right? :tears:

[Magic Hans]

Oh, I am that type of person :)


Oh, hold on. you meant me, right? :tears:

Oh!!!! GFS!!! :eek: :eek: I was talking totally generally! .... please feel free to read between the lines, however, on closer inspection, there will be nothing! Zip! Null! Void! De Nada!

..... of course, I could write one of those disclaimers about "any references being purely fictional and relation to any real-life situations/people being purely co-incidental" at the bottom of every posting. Would that help?? :flower: :cool: :flower:

[David Bailey]

Oh!!!! GFS!!! :eek: :eek: I was talking totally generally! .... please feel free to read between the lines, however, on closer inspection, there will be nothing! Zip! Null! Void! De Nada!

..... of course, I could write one of those disclaimers about "any references being purely fictional and relation to any real-life situations/people being purely co-incidental" at the bottom of every posting. Would that help?? :flower: :cool: :flower:
Yep.

Don't worry, I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek. Humour, me; not working well...

Trust me, you'll know it if (when!) I get annoyed... :whistle:

[Magic Hans]

Yep.

Don't worry, I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek. Humour, me; not working well...

Trust me, you'll know it if (when!) I get annoyed... :whistle:

... where's that damned 'tounge in cheek' smiley when ya want it!!!

[ .... and for that matter, the mildly exasperated one too!!! .... a very exasperated one could be good!!! ... might get overused a little though! lol]

[Amir]

More to the point, I don't think that I can even conceptualise either moving to, or music with no rhythm!!




Well its hard to explain in writing - if you can't conceptualise it we're probably thinking of different things, or mean different things by the word 'rhythm'. What I'm talking about is pretty straight forward and honestly not that difficult.

Anyway, come along this Sunday and we'll happily demonstrate both dancing with no rhythm, and dancing to music with no rhythm both with a super imposed rhythm and without and rhythm at all.

phew!

[Gadget]

I recommend listen to the music, feel it, live it, move with it, dance with attitude and work on your musicality and syncopations.
IMHO 'syncopations' {ie a simple transfer of weight in 'double time'} on their own are a very poor way of showing musicality. More empathy with the music can be acheived from other ways of playing with the timing; like using 'half time' and extending dance movements to match phrasing.

[JoC]

Tom's Diner keeps playing in my head now, and I keep getting urges to try dancing to it... in the street usually...

[Mr Cool]

IMHO 'syncopations' {ie a simple transfer of weight in 'double time'} on their own are a very poor way of showing musicality. More empathy with the music can be acheived from other ways of playing with the timing; like using 'half time' and extending dance movements to match phrasing.

I knew I shouldnt have included that S word syncopations is often incorrectly defined as double time, which I agree has very limited use, I also strongly agree that half time is much more useful. Let me say this musical interpretation should include the whole body, feet, hips, torso, arms, to look cool keep the head and shoulders level and feel that music keep it simple less is more. :waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

[David Bailey]

to look cool keep the head and shoulders level
I think I'd look as cool as Quasimodo under those circumstances, and we've got one of those on the forum already :)

[DavidB]

Great definition of Syncopation at http://www.answers.com/topic/syncopation

Now how about a definition of "feel the music"?

[Gadget]

Great definition of Syncopation at http://www.answers.com/topic/syncopationOh dear :what: it seems my terminology is wrong.
Cool - my appologies: Syncopation is probably the correct term.

[Tessalicious]

Great definition of Syncopation at http://www.answers.com/topic/syncopation

Now how about a definition of "feel the music"?I don't know about a fool-proof general definition, but as far as I'm concerned 'feeling the music' is about internalising it, to the extent that you become part of it whether dancing or playing along.

A good way to test and improve your skill at this, which I was introduced to long ago, is to be listening to a song/piece of music that you know quite well, and to choose a musical voice (a vocal line is usually easiest but instrumental voices can work too, for example bass line) which you can re-create out loud or in your head. Then mute the recording at a random point and 'listen' to the version you are humming/imagining for a number of lines/bars/phrases - then turn the volume back up and see if you are still with the music.

I find this technique really picks out the beat-freaks who are always exactly with it, from the others who stray often by speeding up tempo or just by leaving out crucial breaks in phrasing - now where might we have come across that before? :whistle:

As well as feeling the beat though, it can make so much difference to feel the emotion/passion/fervour in a song or piece when dancing to it. And I don't just mean "it's fast, oh well I'll spin her lots then" or even "it's slow, in that case lots of smoochy moves" - but more that every song has phrases with building or decreasing momentum, and the really skilled leaders use these to their advantage and great effect by matching it with both moves and style. Would that I were ready to follow or lead with this kind of interpretation being completely natural - maybe one day, one can only hope.

[Andreas]

It occured to me while I was reading some Dr Zeus to my kids, that there is rhythm within the verse. And then I remembered Tom's Diner (the original by Suzanne Vega). What about some of Enya's stuff?

Would people find it too hard to dance to? I think it would be... interesting.

I love these pieces that have a subtle melody rather than a strong beat, it is much easier (for me) to get into a trance :D

To Enya's music (quite a number of tracks at least) I'd probably dance a Waltz. If I remember correctly a quite a few of them make nice slow Waltzes but could be wrong. Haven't got any of her tracks here to check.

One of my favourites is the Gladiator theme: No strong beat and such a beautiful slow Waltz :drool:

[Ghost]

I've danced Ceroc to the Blue Danube and the Moonlight Sonata (I had to hum them, but the lady I was dancing with also knew them).

I've completely ignored the beat on songs because the lady wanted to dance at a diifferent beat.

And I've danced to silence interspersed with random white noise while the DJ tried to get the equipment to work properly.

Take care
Christopher