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JoC
27th-May-2005, 01:21 PM
I maybe should have put this in the Beginners Corner but...

A couple of months ago in Perth we did an intermediate technical workshop on footwork. We practiced some lovely cross steps, front and back and skater steps etc... various steps you could use while doing an arm jive.

Since that fateful day I seem to get my feet totally mangled whenever someone leads an arm jive, don't know if I'm trying too hard? :confused: One or two people do lead in a way that I'm pretty clear that a particular step fits and the timing works...

Can anyone help with suggestions how I can sort this devastatingly embarrassing problem? I think I need to go back to basics but I can't even think what they would be.

Thankyou please :flower:

El Salsero Gringo
27th-May-2005, 01:58 PM
I maybe should have put this in the Beginners Corner but...

A couple of months ago in Perth we did an intermediate technical workshop on footwork. We practiced some lovely cross steps, front and back and skater steps etc... various steps you could use while doing an arm jive.

Since that fateful day I seem to get my feet totally mangled whenever someone leads an arm jive, don't know if I'm trying too hard? :confused: One or two people do lead in a way that I'm pretty clear that a particular step fits and the timing works...

Can anyone help with suggestions how I can sort this devastatingly embarrassing problem? I think I need to go back to basics but I can't even think what they would be.

Thankyou please :flower:Try this: on the step in bring both feet parallel about hip width apart, then pick up (and replace) the left foot on the beat as you twist to the left picking up the right foot, then replace the right foot on the beat as you twist to the right and pick up the left. Repeat.

David Bailey
27th-May-2005, 02:13 PM
Since that fateful day I seem to get my feet totally mangled whenever someone leads an arm jive, don't know if I'm trying too hard? :confused: One or two people do lead in a way that I'm pretty clear that a particular step fits and the timing works...
Errr - I'm assuming this isn't the basic arm-jive, but some arm-jive variant. 'Coz the basic arm-jive doesn't have any footwork, does it? Errr...


Can anyone help with suggestions how I can sort this devastatingly embarrassing problem? I think I need to go back to basics but I can't even think what they would be.
You and me both :)

From what I know, the "proper" arm jive is quite a loose hold. OK, obviously there's some compression and tension, otherise you couldn't move each others' torsos, but the amount of tension varies from partner to partner; and because it's the arm-jive, everyone knows it, and people get a bit lazy with it.

So leading it into a footwork-centred routine is difficult, at least for me, because you may not have enough rigidity to do a precise lead (hey, that almost sounds like it makes sense :) )

However, it's a great position to start from and lead into, well, footwork move thingies (effectively, shines), but actually leading into those is quite tricky.

Personally, I do a kind of "double-time" arm jive, a bit like a merengue basic (i.e. lots of wiggling :) ). That has to involve more tension, as you're going twice as fast, and for me it allows more control into footwork variations. But then, maybe I'm just weird that way :tears:

Lou
27th-May-2005, 02:35 PM
Errr - I'm assuming this isn't the basic arm-jive, but some arm-jive variant. 'Coz the basic arm-jive doesn't have any footwork, does it? Errr...
We get taught something very similar to that suggested by ESG. But I doubt footwork is covered anywhere else. :) It just looks more like dancing if there is a weight transfer happening, IMO.

The twist can come from the feet, but it can also look stylish to twist from the upper body as you pull back.

I've also seen it taught with little kicks, which is quite cute (but I like kicks).

ducasi
27th-May-2005, 04:35 PM
... We practiced some lovely cross steps, front and back and skater steps etc... various steps you could use while doing an arm jive. What our regular teacher says is to do the steps taught during the Ceroc Essentials. I think they are (from what I remember of Melanie's class the other week...) "skater steps". In a slow-ish arm jive you've got time to lift your feet, etc... In a faster one, you'd do the fast skater steps.

That said, my arm-jive footwork probably resembles the fast skater steps even at slow speed as I just can't get my head round moving my feet so much. :sad:

Don't know if any of this helps... :flower:

JoC
27th-May-2005, 04:51 PM
Errr - I'm assuming this isn't the basic arm-jive, but some arm-jive variant. 'Coz the basic arm-jive doesn't have any footwork, does it? Errr...

I guess it's still a basic arm-jive but if you have some footwork you can slip in you can maybe make the move look a bit more ummm stylish, technical, something?

I have one partner who often does a cross-over step, and I can usually mirror, which feels kinda good. I suspect I'm busy trying to practice doing a cross-over everytime I do an arm-jive lately, even when it's not really appropriate, or when my partner's footwork (or not) or lead doesn't really allow.

Maybe I'll switch to practising using skater steps for a while, and in between keep doing my little shuffle and shake variation that seems to have developed. :)

(You know what I'm wondering if I've got the right name for the arm jive...)

JoC
29th-May-2005, 09:52 AM
Worked on the old footwork last night by not trying so hard and I think there was a slight improvement...when my partner cross-stepped so did I, when it seemed right I sort of skater-stepped and other times when we were too close to fit any of the above in I just did smaller feet things.

Thanks all, sometimes it just feels good to ask a question even when the only real answer is to get down and try things out on the dance floor. :grin:

Gus
29th-May-2005, 06:42 PM
Errr - I'm assuming this isn't the basic arm-jive, but some arm-jive variant. 'Coz the basic arm-jive doesn't have any footwork, does it? Errr...If my fading memory serves well, the CTA training is that the arm-jive DOES have footwork and there are three variations you can teach ... its just that these rarely get taught.

Doc Iain
31st-May-2005, 10:23 AM
There is footwork... well at least i have always been taught footwork! As you pull back with the left hand you twist to the left (you can of course pick up and put down your right foot to do this...as suggested above), then when you pull back right you do the opposite. If you have the required tension in your shoulder and upper arm, as the guy leads the move it should be fairly easy to follow. Then again you could just do cross over footwork every time! ;)

Keep your legs loose, arms taught and forget about it and it all seems to slot into place!...

stewart38
31st-May-2005, 03:30 PM
No footwork in ceroc , stick to sense of rhythm and that will be fine :grin:

Whitebeard
31st-May-2005, 10:12 PM
......... stick to sense of rhythm and that will be fine.
Yes, in this instance if I try to follow teach's instructions it really throws me and I quickly revert to doing my own thing.




No footwork in ceroc ........
So those rock-steps and kicks I just couldn't get the hang of last night (mambo steps on other occasions) were just a figment of a fevered imagination !!!

El Salsero Gringo
31st-May-2005, 11:17 PM
So those rock-steps and kicks I just couldn't get the hang of last night (mambo steps on other occasions) were just a figment of a fevered imagination !!!Sweetheart, we are *all* just figments of your imagination. I mean, really, a talking Ass? (I'm sorry, I have to go now, there's a message coming through my tin-foil hat from No. 10 Downing street.)

Whitebeard
31st-May-2005, 11:53 PM
Sweetheart, we are *all* just figments of your imagination. I mean, really, a talking Ass? (I'm sorry, I have to go now, there's a message coming through my tin-foil hat from No. 10 Downing street.)
I do hope Tony won't be too fazed by an Ass with an auto zoom feature. Hey, maybe he'll think it's a weapon of mass destruction and declare war on smart Asses.

Sweatheart. That worries me a bit; unless you're a gender bender. I mean, how many ladies have white beards. Do I have to spell it out !!

stewart38
1st-June-2005, 03:13 PM
Yes, in this instance if I try to follow teach's instructions it really throws me and I quickly revert to doing my own thing.


So those rock-steps and kicks I just couldn't get the hang of last night (mambo steps on other occasions) were just a figment of a fevered imagination !!!


Whats mambo steps got to do with ceroc ? If you want foot work go do the Waltz.

Your feet will obvioulsy move but dont worry about it ! well you can but you become less of a dancer

More and more people are looking at their feet nowdays when they should be listening to the beat :whistle:

JoC
1st-June-2005, 03:48 PM
Whats mambo steps got to do with ceroc ? If you want foot work go do the Waltz.
I know one of the joys of ceroc is that footwork isn't necessary but it's not precluded either, and it seems one of the other joys is that other dance forms can be incorporated. Mambo step seems pretty popular to me and is incorporated into a couple of moves I can think of in Ceroc, isn't it??


Your feet will obvioulsy move but dont worry about it ! well you can but you become less of a dancer
:confused: Don't see how learning a bit of footwork makes you less of a dancer...isn't it a case of getting a movement into muscle memory as with any move? Also would think that adding footwork seems to be one way to try to improve overall no? :innocent:


More and more people are looking at their feet nowdays when they should be listening to the beat :whistle:
Has this touched a nerve...? :devil: Point taken, beat comes first if you really want to be 'dancing', but I'm hoping the beat is already being listened to...

Finally... :flower:

stewart38
1st-June-2005, 04:00 PM
I know one of the joys of ceroc is that footwork isn't necessary but it's not precluded either, and it seems one of the other joys is that other dance forms can be incorporated. Mambo step seems pretty popular to me and is incorporated into a couple of moves I can think of in Ceroc, isn't it??


:confused: Don't see how learning a bit of footwork makes you less of a dancer...isn't it a case of getting a movement into muscle memory as with any move? Also would think that adding footwork seems to be one way to try to improve overall no? :innocent:


Has this touched a nerve...? :devil: Point taken, beat comes first if you really want to be 'dancing', but I'm hoping the beat is already being listened to...

Finally... :flower:


There is nothing wrong in learning 'footwork' and of course it can make you a better dancer. To pretend it doesnt exist in ceroc is silly

What im trying to say and not very well (I dont know if you have been dancing a week a month a year or 30) is that some people (im not inferring you) get very hung up about foot work in ceroc and i feel they shouldnt.

:clap:

JoC
1st-June-2005, 04:31 PM
:clap:

Hey I've got to worry about something now I'm giving the dreaded double spins a rest!

Right on baby! :waycool:

stewart38
1st-June-2005, 04:33 PM
Hey I've got to worry about something now I'm giving the dreaded double spins a rest!

Right on baby! :waycool:

whats the longest thread where only two people have gone back and forth :waycool:

If your going to try double spins try not to step on a baby :sad: It would be a crying shame

Lou
1st-June-2005, 04:34 PM
What im trying to say and not very well (I dont know if you have been dancing a week a month a year or 30) is that some people (im not inferring you) get very hung up about foot work in ceroc and i feel they shouldnt.

But, surely it's worse to get hung up about people who get hung up about footwork?

Live & let live, Mr38! We're harming no one.... :whistle:

stewart38
1st-June-2005, 04:44 PM
But, surely it's worse to get hung up about people who get hung up about footwork?

Live & let live, Mr38! We're harming no one.... :whistle:


We had got over that and were having a pleasant chat thank you very much about double spins and babies


Anyway its live and let live thats the cause of all our problems today , hey another thread

clevedonboy
1st-June-2005, 04:52 PM
We're harming no one.... :whistle:

Oh yeah right - since Mrs Wiggle met Andy McG my life has become far more complex, control panels on the third breast, blimey it's hard enough moving my own feet AND I've got sucked into it set myself the task of leading a First Move Columbian :tears:

BTW do I get a prize for translating your sig?

JoC
1st-June-2005, 04:57 PM
And now its a threesome :clap: and we're talking about free love!

(there were 5 straight volleys there I think)

Mental note, don't squash any more babies on dance floor.

JoC
1st-June-2005, 04:57 PM
Foursome! :kiss:

stewart38
1st-June-2005, 05:07 PM
Foursome! :kiss:

I stop at 4 it gets too complicated too many issues :blush:

JoC
1st-June-2005, 05:08 PM
control panels on the third breast
care to elaborate...?

clevedonboy
1st-June-2005, 05:33 PM
The "third breast" is an area on the lady's back where a mans hand should fall in the ballroom hold (why 3rd breast? I don't know). We were taught about this by Gary Marsden in Taunton on a Blues workshop. The "control panel" is "simply" (ha ha ha) placing your right hand on the lady's back with the heal of your hand one side of her spine and fingers the other. By involving that nasty F word (frame) it is possible for the man to direct a woman to step whereever he chooses.

For Andy McGregor this appear to be second nature so he can apparently lead any footwork he likes . For me, well let's say I can make Mrs Wiggle fall over. But I am willing to give it a go and try to learn.

Anyway I'm not getting involved in any foursomes so I'd better shut up

Lou
1st-June-2005, 05:57 PM
Oh yeah right - since Mrs Wiggle met Andy McG my life has become far more complex, control panels on the third breast, blimey it's hard enough moving my own feet AND I've got sucked into it set myself the task of leading a First Move Columbian :tears:
:rofl: Good for you, Andrew! :D


BTW do I get a prize for translating your sig?
'Tis a Mediaeval Baebes lyric. :whistle:

David Bailey
1st-June-2005, 07:06 PM
Sweatheart. That worries me a bit;
Me too, I mean, a sweaty heart? Ewww. :sick:

:D


Do I have to spell it out !!
For me, certainly - check the sig, dude.

Whitebeard
1st-June-2005, 11:44 PM
The "third breast" is an area on the lady's back where a mans hand should fall in the ballroom hold (why 3rd breast? I don't know).
I wouldn't rule out wishful thinking.

JoC
5th-July-2005, 05:10 PM
I've also seen it taught with little kicks, which is quite cute (but I like kicks).
Just thought I'd give a little update on the old arm-jive footwork (and be naughty and introduce a little bit of technical dance talk to the forum today :whistle: ).

I think I may have almost inadvertantly done a couple of little kicks last night! :grin: I'm very pleased because apart from that my dancing was pants.

Also seem to now be doing more 'behind' cross steps and realised one of the reasons I was getting a bit mangled before (and still am come to think of it, but less so) is I think... I was being a bit of a scaredy at actually stepping anywhere, I was transferring weight but not moving my feet much, or was moving one foot and not the other.

Anyway, that's that, slight progress has been made, but more work needed.