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El Salsero Gringo
23rd-May-2005, 01:45 PM
Following on from where this (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5363) thread has got to, time to 'fess up, everyone.

No need to be sexist about things, either, so ladies - your input is appreciated too.

And, no, it's not meant to be anonymous, either.

Bangers & Mash
23rd-May-2005, 01:51 PM
Following on from where this (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5363) thread has got to, time to 'fess up, everyone.

No need to be sexist about things, either, so ladies - your input is appreciated too.

And, no, it's not meant to be anonymous, either.


Interestingly, there were some absolutely stunning girls at Stockport on saturday - yet my favourite dances and the girls I kept returning to for more were (to be as polite as I can about this) attractive to me only for the dancing!

Since I go to ceroc to dance - that is what I judge people on.

I pay little attention to race, colour, age, or size although, body odour does influence my choices.

DianaS
23rd-May-2005, 01:52 PM
you haven't got the option I'm a woman and I dance with fat women
or I'm a fat woman and I only dance with thin women
Honestly El Whatsit Where's your research skills?
Yet another flawed survey! :rofl: :hug:
Francks going to be very very cross with you :kiss:
But in answer to your question I dance with All of the Liquourice Allsorts except for grumpy guys and people who annoy me :angry:

El Salsero Gringo
23rd-May-2005, 01:55 PM
you haven't got the option I'm a woman and I dance with fat women
or I'm a fat woman and I only dance with thin women
Honestly El Whatsit Where's your research skills?
Yet another flawed survey! :rofl: :hug:
Francks going to be very very cross with you :kiss:
But in answer to your question I dance with All of the Liquourice Allsorts except for grumpy guys and people who annoy me :angry:If you're a woman (fat or thin) and you dance only with thin women then tick the box marked "I'm a woman and I don't dance with fat men." Seems perfectly logical to me.

Any other problems with my methodology, take it up with my psychiatrist.

jivecat
23rd-May-2005, 03:04 PM
Since I go to ceroc to dance - that is what I judge people on.

I pay little attention to race, colour, age, or size


:yeah:




although, body odour does influence my choices.

Nope, not even too fussed about that. If they can lead well, I'll be up for it.

Piglet
23rd-May-2005, 03:09 PM
Thought the rule was we weren't to say no to anyone! :whistle:

Although I have broken the rule with one guy but because his dance technique is so poor and I've simply had enough of him for a while.

jivecat
23rd-May-2005, 03:09 PM
Just thought, why is this poll just about fat people? I think fat blokes are quite sexy, I like a good armful! It was the skinny ones I was moaning about in my original can of worms.

drathzel
23rd-May-2005, 03:11 PM
I'll dance with anyone, regardless of size!!! :innocent:

under par
23rd-May-2005, 03:17 PM
I dance with everyone, though there are one or two I'd prefer to dance less with but I dance with them just the same.
Size has nothing to do with my preference.

Simon r
23rd-May-2005, 03:23 PM
Following on from where this (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5363) thread has got to, time to 'fess up, everyone.

No need to be sexist about things, either, so ladies - your input is appreciated too.

And, no, it's not meant to be anonymous, either.

Once again this is not funny or smart its comments and threads like this that are turning so many people away from the forum...

Frank please sort this out........

Bangers & Mash
23rd-May-2005, 03:28 PM
Once again this is not funny or smart its comments and threads like this that are turning so many people away from the forum...

Frank please sort this out........


I disagree with you there Simon. If anything this thread supports the theory that it doesn't matter what you look like, people will want to dance with you.

senorita
23rd-May-2005, 03:31 PM
I dance with everyone, though there are one or two I'd prefer to dance less with but I dance with them just the same.
Size has nothing to do with my preference.

I'm the same..I dance with anybody, any shape or size,..I dont make any judgements on others, you should treat others as how you would like to be treated.
As forest Gump says "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what treats you'll get"
At the end of the day...a variety is a spice of life! ;-)

Bangers & Mash
23rd-May-2005, 03:36 PM
As forest Gump says "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what treats you'll get"


that's the problem! I ate all the chocolates :tears:

DianaS
23rd-May-2005, 03:41 PM
If you're a woman (fat or thin) and you dance only with thin women then tick the box marked "I'm a woman and I don't dance with fat men." Seems perfectly logical to me.

Any other problems with my methodology, take it up with my psychiatrist.

Loook sometimes just to liven things up especially in a new venue where its a lottery we decide our priorities
First we dance with people wearing xx (example white shirts THEN black shirts)
Other times its the good looking ones followed by the good dancers
We get confused though it they are both and have been known to argue :sick:
OTher times we reverse it :D
Sometimes its those who play the hotshot game and sometimes the nervious beginner types...
We talk, we stalk and we compare our catches
BUT
Size hasn't been an issue,
Unless your talking about somehting else??
Feeling a little inadequate in some areas eh?? :flower: Shame take it to the shrink oppps nother sizest comment
Back to work or I'll be sacked!

MartinHarper
23rd-May-2005, 03:43 PM
Unlike the scum on Yehoodi, I would never try to get rid of fat dancers (http://www.yehoodi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=57863).
(though I will admit it made me laugh...)

senorita
23rd-May-2005, 03:44 PM
that's the problem! I ate all the chocolates :tears:

Eat more bangers & mash... that will kill off your sweet tooth!
Happy birthday
have a nice day!

Divissima
23rd-May-2005, 03:54 PM
Unlike the scum on Yehoodi, I would never try to get rid of fat dancers (http://www.yehoodi.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=57863).
(though I will admit it made me laugh...)Just had a look - it's horrifying! I'm glad we don't have the same problem with trolling here...

El Salsero Gringo
23rd-May-2005, 04:05 PM
Once again this is not funny or smart its comments and threads like this that are turning so many people away from the forum...

Frank please sort this out........Hi Simon,

I know we don't share the same sense of humour, but I apologise if the meaning behind this thread got lost somewhere. I don't think many people will be put off by it. Even as a newcomer I reckon there's room on the forum for more than just "thank-you for my fabulous dance last Wednesday" and worthy discussions on how to put the world to rights. :flower: Don't you think?

(Will: have you ever read www.herdofsheep.com ?)

Lou
23rd-May-2005, 04:06 PM
If you're a woman (fat or thin) and you dance only with thin women then tick the box marked "I'm a woman and I don't dance with fat men." Seems perfectly logical to me.

Any other problems with my methodology, take it up with my psychiatrist.
Ahhh... but what if I'm gender non-specific and dance with anybody of any build? ;)

stewart38
23rd-May-2005, 04:18 PM
Hi Simon,

I know we don't share the same sense of humour, but I apologise if the meaning behind this thread got lost somewhere. I don't think many people will be put off by it. Even as a newcomer I reckon there's room on the forum for more than just "thank-you for my fabulous dance last Wednesday" and worthy discussions on how to put the world to rights. :flower: Don't you think?

(Will: have you ever read www.herdofsheep.com ?)

Got to agree with El Gringo here

I think threads like this make people look twice

David Bailey
23rd-May-2005, 04:20 PM
I'm (as usual) amazed at the somewhat intense reaction to certain posts...

OK, I have said, consistently, that I am ruthless in applying the "great dancing experience" criteria when selecting dance partners. That is, I prefer to dance with the people I'll most enjoy to dance with. Feel free to call me a Dance Fascist on that score, but I suspect I'm not alone on that one.

So, if they're scoring high on this factor, I'll dance with them, and I apply no other primary criteria. However (and this is the key point), if I don't know the dancer, I have to use some other criteria - even if it's "they're standing next to me" :)

This judgement will then be based on whether I think I'll have a good dance with them, which depends on a number of factors, chief of which is a good friendly attitude.

Note the complete lack so far of any discussion of body shape...

However, as we're discussing this, I would say that height and weight ratio of the leader to the follower does matter, and does affect what you can and can't do as a leader. For example, I would generally only do dip-seducers with people smaller / lighter than me, for both aesthetic and safety reasons - ie. it won't look silly, and I'm sure I won't lose balance.

But this is a practical, cautious, and physical-factors evaluation. It has nothing, nada, niente, zip, nessuno, etc. to do with "attractiveness". (I'm the last person to try to sneer about someone's looks, believe me :blush: ).

It's all about the dance, people.


And as for:
Ahhh... but what if I'm gender non-specific and dance with anybody of any build? ;)Look, I've said sorry, OK? What do you want, blood? :tears:
:flower:

David Bailey
23rd-May-2005, 04:24 PM
there's room on the forum for more than just "thank-you for my fabulous dance last Wednesday"
No - because I didn't go to dancing on Wednesday. Hah, if that well-reasoned response hasn't punctured your argument, nothing will. :innocent:


(Will: have you ever read www.herdofsheep.com ?)
Hell, that's another hour of work-time wasted... :blush:

Clive Long
23rd-May-2005, 04:31 PM
Ahhh... but what if I'm gender non-specific

Lou, I always find you gender non-specific. It's me, it's me, not you !!!!! Bl00dy useless spectacles.


and dance with anybody of any build? ;)
Brieze block, tacky lean-to conservatory?

You stretch credulity, young lady (50 / 50 chance on that one :whistle: )

and on topic ...

as I have probably written before ... I try to dance with pretty much any (every?) lady on a night. I try to dance with women I haven't danced with before. I can think of (now) 3 girls / ladies I do dance with when I see them at Ashtons. They are a delight to dance with and compensate for my limited "range" as a dancer and make me feel I am a better dancer than I am. They are all of more generous proportions.

Trying to find how to express this delicately, I am a "body fascist" (pretty ironic if you know me) but I don't let that affect my "acceptance" of offers to dance from any woman.

I am told by those "who know" I am at least 2 stone over weight. Maybe if I had to fight for a dance like some ladies seem to have to, I would go to the gym and play tennis rather than drink too much damn good claret.

CRL

P.S. I accept this is an extremely sensitive subject and I don't know whether it should be discussed openly on a public forum

Is the message received (even if the message that is not given) "If your appearance is, in any way, less than one I find attractive, then don't bother trying to have a social or sexual life" To be CLEAR. That attitide is COMPLETE RUBBISH - but maybe it is an attitude held by some? many? even if they would vigorously deny it

Bangers & Mash
23rd-May-2005, 04:33 PM
I am told by those "who know" I am at least 2 stone over weight.
CRL

Just two? I wish!

Last time I was on a flight they asked me to move to the back cos they couldn't get the nose up during take off :tears:

Clive Long
23rd-May-2005, 04:34 PM
Just two? I wish!

Last time I was on a flight they asked me to move to the back cos they couldn't get the nose up during take off :tears:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Priceless

Bangers & Mash
23rd-May-2005, 04:36 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Priceless

I won't even tell you what they ask me to do when we come in to land!

El Salsero Gringo
23rd-May-2005, 04:39 PM
I am told by those "who know" I am at least 2 stone over weight.Damn right, Lardy. And you're not fooling anyone with the 'size 12' label in your red dress - the stitching is all crooked.

Now would anyone else who's tempted *please* stop taking this thread seriously?

Clive Long
23rd-May-2005, 04:46 PM
Now would anyone else who's tempted *please* stop taking this thread seriously?
A... (sorry almost blew your cover) as you do not cover your threads with ironic emoticons and you write with such vigour, people will take what you write as an accurate reflection of what you think.

CRL

DianaS
23rd-May-2005, 04:54 PM
you're not fooling anyone with the 'size 12' label - the stitching is all crooked.

Your size El Gringo
tell me how big you REALLY are :devil:

stewart38
23rd-May-2005, 04:55 PM
According to the 'facts'

Only two men on the whole Jive scene will dance with 'well rounded' women

Im one of them so that leaves 1 person left

Will he have time to get around them ?

El Salsero Gringo
23rd-May-2005, 05:09 PM
Your size El Gringo
tell me how big you REALLY are :devil:
:what:

Rhythm King
23rd-May-2005, 05:12 PM
Will he have time to get around them ?

They'd have to be pretty big, if he couldn't get the whole way around them in one song.

Dance Demon
23rd-May-2005, 05:31 PM
Once again this is not funny or smart its comments and threads like this that are turning so many people away from the forum...

Frank please sort this out........

:yeah: ....I agree Simon. We don't need a thread that singles out a group of people who are most probably already pretty self concious about thier size, any more than we need one to ask if we dance with self opinionated bigots. I do realise that this is just meant to be a bit of fun, but some people may find it offensive. :)

Little Monkey
23rd-May-2005, 05:31 PM
So...... What exactly do you mean by 'fat'? Are you automatically classed as fat if you've got a few pounds too much, or are you talking about obese? Anything above a size 10? 12? 14? I don't know...

I think it's great that so many people don't care about what size or shape their dance partner is! :clap: I personally don't care how fat or skinny my dance partner is, as long as he's a good lead and fun to dance with!

I've met people who think they're too fat to go to ceroc, and think that nobody would want to dance with them just because they don't look like stick insects. That's very sad, and I always try to say to them that dancers come in all shapes and sizes!! Also, I know quite a few dancers (men and women) who are really graceful, sexy dancers, and fab to dance with, despite having a few pounds extra. So there. :D

Little Curvy Monkey

Daisy
23rd-May-2005, 05:35 PM
I disagree with you there Simon. If anything this thread supports the theory that it doesn't matter what you look like, people will want to dance with you.

Why ask to question then!? :whistle:

Minnie M
23rd-May-2005, 05:45 PM
There are not many fat women on the dance scene and we all feel very aware of our size. If a man refuses a dance with me, my first reaction is because I am big, and threads like this bring it all home to me.

Do any forumites male or female have a problem asking me to dance ?

BTW has this thread come from my asking you to dance on Saturday

:tears: :tears: :tears:

PS: I am on a diet and it is going well :D but the main reason for dieting is my health not my dancing

Bangers & Mash
23rd-May-2005, 05:56 PM
Do any forumites male or female have a problem asking me to dance ?


Only in that I wouldn't recognise you? and your picture isn't exactly a give away!


Why ask to question then!? :whistle:

I think that there is a mis-comprehension (can't think of the word) that most dancers are athletic, gorgeous, perfect teeth, perfect health and a j-lo butt.

Everybody has low esteem about something in their lives - be it looks, size, complexion, dance technique, experience, social background.

One of the benefits of dancing, as highlighted by this thread is that no-one cares. You can be short, tall, fat, thin, black, white, yellow, green, rich, famous, awesome on the dance floor or a sack of potatoes - so long as you are willing and available to dance, people will dance with you.

I think that is a message that newcomers need to be told.

The most common excuses I hear for people not dancing are
- I'm too old
- I'm too fat
- I can't afford it
- I don't have time
- I'd look stupid
and
I'm not dancing with you john, you're far too ugly :wink:

El Salsero Gringo
23rd-May-2005, 05:58 PM
An apology.


I've read this thread back from beginning to end.

What I thought when I posted the poll was that it was such a stupid, non-sensical, idiot question that anyone who read it would see it was just a device for saying how disturbing I found the other thread I linked to at the top.

I didn't intend for it to be even a semi-serious debate, or for it to descend into jokes about fat people. I just assumed everyone would either get the point, or at worst, swear under their breath and move on. It was meant to be humorous in an ironic way - not as a piece of slapstick.

And when I suggested to Clive that he shouldn't take the thread seriously - I used the wrong words. I should have said, "don't take it literally." There is a serious point to be made about making judgements and assumptions about others, and about grouping people into "them" and "us" by trivial criteria. I can't put it any more eloquently than John Donne did, here. (http://ug.cs.dal.ca/~johnston/poetry/island.html)

Dance Demon says
We don't need a thread that singles out a group of people who are most probably already pretty self concious about thier size, any more than we need one to ask if we dance with self opinionated bigots.Ignoring the fact that I think he's having a go at me, he's quite right. I really didn't express what I meant very well at all. For which I'm sorry.

Minnie M
23rd-May-2005, 06:01 PM
Only in that I wouldn't recognise you? and your picture isn't exactly a give away!

Actually there are many photos of me on this forum, the last one was in discussion of who my dance partner was (Camber thread)


One of the benefits of dancing, as highlighted by this thread is that no-one cares. You can be short, tall, fat, thin, black, white, yellow, green, rich, famous, awesome on the dance floor or a sack of potatoes - so long as you are willing and available to dance, people will dance with you.


Do you really think on an open poll, someone will admit not to want to dance with a fat person :whistle:

Clive Long
23rd-May-2005, 06:05 PM
There are not many fat women on the dance scene and we all feel very aware of our size. If a man refuses a dance with me, my first reaction is because I am big, and threads like this bring it all home to me.

Do any forumites male or female have a problem asking me to dance ?

<< snip >>
If they do, it's their loss girl.

Clive

Mary
23rd-May-2005, 06:24 PM
Have to say that my take on the thread was of a more lateral kind. I think it almost goes without saying that the vast majority of the MJ world do not consider looks, size, colour or other physical attributes when dancing with a partner (well, OK, maybe smell might be a factor for some - but blocked sinuses can be very useful at times :wink: ). It would appear that this thread has re-enforced that, and for those who are either consciously or sub-consciously size-prejudiced would, perhaps re-think why they are so.

btw if an incredibly handsome adonis asked me to dance I would run a mile - except you SimonR :D And nothing wrong with admiring a cute a** - got nothing to do with whether I'm going to dance with them.

Or am I missing the point? :devil:

M

Dance Demon
23rd-May-2005, 06:28 PM
An apology.

Ignoring the fact that I think he's having a go at me, he's quite right. I really didn't express what I meant very well at all. For which I'm sorry.

You obviously didn't ignore the fact.......or you wouldn't have mentioned it....but if the cap fits.... :wink:

Lou
23rd-May-2005, 06:42 PM
What do you want, blood? :tears:
At last! Now you're getting to know me! :clap:

MartinHarper
23rd-May-2005, 07:16 PM
Oh! You're all so deep, and mature, and sensitive! Take me now!


We don't need a thread that singles out a group of people who are most probably already pretty self concious about their size.

Nod. It would distract us from the vital business of singling out the young (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1947), the old (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3543), and the queer (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2014).
(Heh, it's like Amazon recommendations. "If you were offended by this thread, you may also be offended by...")

David Bailey
23rd-May-2005, 07:32 PM
If a man refuses a dance with me, my first reaction is because I am big, and threads like this bring it all home to me.
It's my great misfortune that I've not (I think) had the chance to dance with you. Hopefully I'll have the chance to do so at some point, and if you say you're going to a place, that'd certainly be a plus factor in me deciding whether to also go.

Does that answer your question?

Oh, and :flower: :hug: :flower:

(Hoping I don't sound like a Minnie-stalker now)

Minnie M
23rd-May-2005, 07:33 PM
Oh! You're all so deep, and mature, and sensitive! Take me now!..........
so you object to dancing with old ladies too Martin, hmmmmm........... was thinking of bringing another link back from the dead :whistle:
Leave sleeping threads lie Martin :yeah:

Minnie M
23rd-May-2005, 07:35 PM
It's my great misfortune that I've not (I think) had the chance to dance with you. Hopefully I'll have the chance to do so at some point, and if you say you're going to a place, that'd certainly be a plus factor in me deciding whether to also go.

Does that answer your question?

Oh, and :flower: :hug: :flower:

(Hoping I don't sound like a Minnie-stalker now)

thank you :blush: :flower: :hug: and I look forward to that dance :clap:

See you at Hipsters tomorrow ?

djtrev
23rd-May-2005, 08:26 PM
During the Camber weekender I had the chance to dance with MM.I was also very fortunate to be ASKED to dance by an extremely slim,goodlooking young lady.Flattered as I was by the young lady,Minnie,you won hands down.You got rhythm girl-it was a pleasure.

Minnie M
23rd-May-2005, 08:33 PM
During the Camber weekender I had the chance to dance with MM.I was also very fortunate to be ASKED to dance by an extremely slim,goodlooking young lady.Flattered as I was by the young lady,Minnie,you won hands down.You got rhythm girl-it was a pleasure.

Gosh :blush: thank you :hug:
That's the second compliment on this thread :hug: :clap: :kiss: funny how some things have a 'turn-a-round' :whistle:

Barry Shnikov
23rd-May-2005, 10:45 PM
Ahem.

Fat women I have no problem with.

Where I have a problem is with ugly women. Really have to grit my teeth if I get asked.

For avoidance of doubt no women on this forum come into this category. No, really.

Northants Girly
23rd-May-2005, 11:02 PM
Your size El Gringo
tell me how big you REALLY are :devil:ESG / DianaS - what are you two like! :really:

Please please let me be there when you guys finally get to dance with each other :whistle: :whistle:

:rofl:

MartinHarper
23rd-May-2005, 11:37 PM
So you object to dancing with old ladies too Martin.

No.
I've no idea what "too" is meant to refer to, but I'm sure you'll enlighten us.

David Bailey
24th-May-2005, 08:10 AM
Ahem.

Fat women I have no problem with.

Where I have a problem is with ugly women. Really have to grit my teeth if I get asked.

For avoidance of doubt no women on this forum come into this category. No, really.
:rofl: :rofl:
Actually, mutating this thread, I keep on catching my hand on these flippin' rubber band thingies everyone's wearing now.

Ladies, how on earth are we supposed to slide our hands down your arms when they get stopped by 3 or 4 multicoloured rubber wristbands?

There, that's raised the level of debate... :whistle:

DianaS
24th-May-2005, 09:36 AM
:what:
Your stats man :D
I demand satisfaction
Put them online and show us your credentials,
(he who is so obsessed by size!) :rolleyes:

El Salsero Gringo
24th-May-2005, 09:40 AM
Your stats man :D
I demand satisfaction
Put them online and show us your credentials,
(he who is so obsessed by size!) :rolleyes:I'll show you mine, if you show me yours...

Simon r
24th-May-2005, 09:48 AM
An apology.


I've read this thread back from beginning to end.

What I thought when I posted the poll was that it was such a stupid, non-sensical, idiot question that anyone who read it would see it was just a device for saying how disturbing I found the other thread I linked to at the top.

I didn't intend for it to be even a semi-serious debate, or for it to descend into jokes about fat people. I just assumed everyone would either get the point, or at worst, swear under their breath and move on. It was meant to be humorous in an ironic way - not as a piece of slapstick.

And when I suggested to Clive that he shouldn't take the thread seriously - I used the wrong words. I should have said, "don't take it literally." There is a serious point to be made about making judgements and assumptions about others, and about grouping people into "them" and "us" by trivial criteria. I can't put it any more eloquently than John Donne did, here. (http://ug.cs.dal.ca/~johnston/poetry/island.html)

Dance Demon says Ignoring the fact that I think he's having a go at me, he's quite right. I really didn't express what I meant very well at all. For which I'm sorry.

I'm sorry but this is not the first time you have started a thread and then after reading it felt you needed to retract ...
This is turning people away from the forum and i want the forum to grow not to continually be driving people away because of a few badly choosen disscusions ...
Try thinking of the bigger picture and of those that will read your posts, i enjoy a good conversation but would never single out groups or people...
For the first time ever i have reported this thread to Frank as i feel the line has been truly stepped over....
what next why should gays be allowed to dance ,.. do you dance with black people.... this is sick and wrong as i said before its not funny and i am sorry i do not accept your appology....
For those that have replied accepting this as a valid subject then shame on you to..

DianaS
24th-May-2005, 09:54 AM
I'll show you mine, if you show me yours...
No! Not a deal... :sick:
You're the one obssessed with size
Perhaps its time to start a new thread
"If you think El Grigo watsits should come clean over his size issues vote here!"

Then we could vote on how large we think he is and whether its based on supposition or evidence (seen or unseen)
You're a silly ass :hug:

Lory
24th-May-2005, 10:02 AM
Look, I'm fat but even I laughed at the thread on the other site, the thing is, I don't take it personally...(surely this can't be ME it's aimed at, it must be all those 'other' fat people ;) )

but, come on fess up, I wanna know which guy's used me as their bench mark to answer the poll?? :angry:

We all have area's we feel sensitive about and yes, if we get turned down for a dance, its human nature to assume it's because of the one thing 'we' don't like about ourselves.

I often get nice compliments about being a light follow but maybe if I over analysed it, I could take it that, what they really mean is, Wow, I had a preconception that you'd be like a sack of potatoes to lug about but in reality your quite normal! :D

Best not to analyse!

I suppose we could always ask the direct question, Why, did you turn me down :confused: but we might get an even worse answer than the one we expected, they might just simply say, Cos I don't like you! :eek: :sick:

El Salsero Gringo
24th-May-2005, 10:47 AM
I'm sorry but this is not the first time you have started a thread and then after reading it felt you needed to retract ...
This is turning people away from the forum and i want the forum to grow not to continually be driving people away because of a few badly choosen disscusions ...
Try thinking of the bigger picture and of those that will read your posts, i enjoy a good conversation but would never single out groups or people...
For the first time ever i have reported this thread to Frank as i feel the line has been truly stepped over....
what next why should gays be allowed to dance ,.. do you dance with black people.... this is sick and wrong as i said before its not funny and i am sorry i do not accept your appology....
For those that have replied accepting this as a valid subject then shame on you to..

Simon,

I'm not retracting a word. I apologised because I hadn't been clear enough, definitely not because I regret starting the thread. I was and am making a serious point that I don't think you understand.

On the subject of people being turned away from the forum:

Firstly, it's not primarily my responsibility, as a mere contributor here, to worry about other people's reactions. It's up to Franck and his team of moderators to shape the Forum to attract the people that he would like. I've not yet had a comment from them about this or any other thread, nor has it or anything else I've said here been 'pulled' or moderated other than at my request.

Secondly: I would never deliberately alienate people or wish to drive them away from the Forum. I have very much enjoyed the wide range of opinions here and I have no desire to see that limited.

Thirdly, you are overestimating my importance and the significance of the threads that I've started. I'm only one regular contributor of many dozens. Your and others' comments about anything I've written will continue to reasure those who don't like either what I've said, or the way that I've said it.

Fourthly: What makes you sure that people are being driven away from the Forum? Some contributors go quiet for a while, some come back. (Where are ChrisA and Andy McGregor?) Some people have other things in their lives that mean they don't have the time to contribute as regularly as once they did. Perhaps people get bored or feel they've said all they have to say. But new contributors join, and old contributors re-join. DavidB is posting more now than he did for a while, Clive Long and David James are both prolific and they joined even after me which was only in January. I suspect that a updated count of both posts and regular posters would show the same overall upwards trend as the last time I posted something on that subject. (In fact I remember that you took exception to that thread of mine, too.)

Fifthly, and finally: The few people that I remember who have left the forum and stated a reason have put it down to the tone of argument between personalilities rather than because of content. I know we don't agree on much (or so it seems) but I also know that we can disagree in a level-headed way. I have enormous respect for you and for your dancing (I've never made it to one of your classes, sadly) and I had a blast watching you, in the past at the Jive Bar, and at Greenwich just this Saturday.

Warm regards,

ESG

stewart38
24th-May-2005, 11:04 AM
I'm sorry but this is not the first time you have started a thread and then after reading it felt you needed to retract ...
This is turning people away from the forum and i want the forum to grow not to continually be driving people away because of a few badly choosen disscusions ...
Try thinking of the bigger picture and of those that will read your posts, i enjoy a good conversation but would never single out groups or people...
For the first time ever i have reported this thread to Frank as i feel the line has been truly stepped over....
what next why should gays be allowed to dance ,.. do you dance with black people.... this is sick and wrong as i said before its not funny and i am sorry i do not accept your appology....
For those that have replied accepting this as a valid subject then shame on you to..


I think if the thead had said do you dance with 'short people' or 'tall people' (something you cant do anything about) it would have got more of a laugh as its ok to have a go at some people ie short or tall but not 'fat' or 'black' etc

As a tall fat man I dont take offence to the thread

In fact id me more interested to hear from men who are under 5ft 5 and do they dance will tall people. But then again I really wouldnt be that interested

Some of the best dancers are 'big' i dont like the word fat . At least the thread has generated a lot of interest. Generally its a well rounded debate

Rhythm King
24th-May-2005, 11:19 AM
Look, I'm fat but even I laughed at the thread on the other site, the thing is, I don't take it personally...(surely this can't be ME it's aimed at, it must be all those 'other' fat people ;) )


Really Lory, I thought your spelling was better than that! You're PHAT - there's a difference!


Generally its a well rounded debate

:rofl: :rofl:

A rubensian R-K :flower:

Bangers & Mash
24th-May-2005, 11:20 AM
I don't find this thread offensive at all - but rather more encouraging.

I used to be overtly obese (weighing in a 20st) and was considered to be the "fat, jolly" type. I knew every fat joke there was to be told (went to weightwatchers last night, but John wasn't there so we had to watch someone else).

To be honest, I hated being fat, hated my reflection, and found that my lifestyle was very much dictated by my size and physical limitations because of it. However, I was surrounded by good and genuine friends who didn't care and I used to dance a little in London at the time which gave me a friendly buzz.

People are fat. Fact. Some people hate it, some people love it, and some people accept it or ignore it.

If during those days, I had read this forum I would have been more reassured than offended and positively encouraged to start dancing if I was not already doing it.

For the record, after a scare and a concerted effort (5 hours a day of training and strict diet - it was not easy at all) I managed to drop to 13.5 stone.

Interestingly, I noticed a number of changes in reaction to me because of it. Some male friends found it threatening, because I still had some of the fat, jolly character, some shop assistants started treating me like a young kid because I looked younger, and I couldn't use any of my repertoir of fat jokes any more because it wasn't pc. etc. So, there were some benefits of being fat!

Nowadays, I've piled on a few more inches but am not back to my 20stone. I am certainly not as slim and agile as some of the dancers on the dance floor, but I love every minute of it and enjoy the crowd - and I tell my fat jokes again :clap:

So, from a former overtly obese to a now mildly obese - no offence taken. Perhaps the only thing I would have done is taken away the poll.

And to those of you who don't discriminate in this way - good on you!

Minnie M - you posed the question would I honestly say on the forum if I didn't dance with fat people. I think most people know that I shoot from the hip (and frequently get flamed for it), but at least I am honest.

P.S. Amazing how the dancing helps with weight and confidence!!

El Salsero Gringo
24th-May-2005, 11:28 AM
I think if the thead had said do you dance with 'short people' or 'tall people' (something you cant do anything about) it would have got more of a laugh as its ok to have a go at some people ie short or tall but not 'fat' or 'black' etcI chose the word 'fat' quite deliberately. Yes people are sensitive about it, but it is, in fact, just another adjective. It's only in people's heads that it becomes an insult, a negative word, or most perniciously, a means to divide into "them" and "us." A couple of wise people have already pointed out that there's no dividing line - and if there's no line then how can there be a division?

If anyone's upset about being pigeonholed by the asking of the question - regardless of whether they see themselves as 'fat' or not - then they've fallen into the trap of accepting the question as meaningful. In fact it's their own world-view that makes them see the question as offensive, not the question itself. Solution? Change your world-view so the question becomes meaningless - as I believe it to be - and the offence doesn't exist.

(By the way, the fifth option shouldn't have been included, it was added much later by one of the moderators.)

Lory
24th-May-2005, 11:32 AM
Really Lory, I thought your spelling was better than that! You're PHAT - there's a difference!
Hey! :waycool: :cheers:

stewart38
24th-May-2005, 11:35 AM
what next why should gays be allowed to dance ,.. do you dance with black people.... this is sick and wrong


Its not 'sick and wrong' if such things are aired so im lost on that to

DianaS
24th-May-2005, 11:41 AM
Must admit to being very partial to dancing with one guy. Being held by him is like being held by a warm bear.. and he cuddles me really nicely when we dance and his size and feel is part of the attaction
Warm soft and you can just melt into him
There's somewhat a que for this guy
HUmmmm lov-e-ly
sadly not on the forum though...
:hug:

Simon r
24th-May-2005, 11:49 AM
Its not 'sick and wrong' if such things are aired so im lost on that to
tell you what i'll find you a phone book to help you find it

jivecat
24th-May-2005, 12:06 PM
:rofl: :rofl:
.... mutating this thread.......



About time too, we need putting out of our misery. That's at least three people I've counted who seem to think it's ALL THEIR FAULT.

David Bailey
24th-May-2005, 12:06 PM
Much though I love seeing ESG fantically squirming...

Secondly: I would never deliberately alienate people or wish to drive them away from the Forum. I have very much enjoyed the wide range of opinions here and I have no desire to see that limited.
I don't believe anyone who's met ESG in real life could imagine he'd ever be malicious. I wish the same could be said about me... :tears:


Thirdly, you are overestimating my importance and the significance of the threads that I've started.
Indeed. You're way less important than me, for example.
And I've got a better avatar.
And I'm clearly better-looking.
And I've got better black T-shirts (heh, I know how to really wound :) )


Fourthly: What makes you sure that people are being driven away from the Forum? Some contributors go quiet for a while, some come back. (Where are ChrisA and Andy McGregor?)
Obviously, you've scared them off, you evil Quasimodo-like person, you.


Clive Long and David James are both prolific
No, we're "Important", remember. Much more so than you. Definitely.



And as for:
Look, I'm f**
Yes, the blatant-fishing-for-compliment award stakes are hotting up. But OK; no, you're not "the F-word", you're well-built, and delightfully so at that. I speak for, I imagine, all mankind when I say, please do not lose weight. :flower:

El Salsero Gringo
24th-May-2005, 12:22 PM
Much though I love seeing ESG fantically squirming...The only squirming I've done in this thread is under the weight of DianaS and her penetrating examination. It's not for nothing that I'm known far and wide as the ass with a silver tongue, you know.

-ESG

(OK, the actual word one woman used was "electric", but I'm sure that's what she meant.)

Dreadful Scathe
24th-May-2005, 12:25 PM
Personally, I see nothing wrong with this thread. Perhaps El Salsa left it a bit too open to interpretation but he probably assumed us sensible adults don't need neon signposts. I managed to pick up on his meaning alright - size does not matter (stop sniggering at the back there!)

Even light hearted threads can turn nasty if someone misses the point. Simon R shame on you, for being reactionary and critisising without explaining why. Then this..


what next why should gays be allowed to dance ,.. do you dance with black people

Neither of those are physical differences that would affect a dance, unlike size - moreover neither of those were mentioned in the original thread that prompted El Salsa Gringero to start this one. Are you quoting them to lend your opinion more weight by association? People agree with those statements so they think better of your complaint? Its not a valid 'next step' in my mind.
Simon, there are better ways to express your disapproval of a thread. Try just saying WHY next time. I think its because you dislike the label 'fat' - as do we all when it's used in an offensive context, I just dont think it was in this instance. Some people may have taken offence of course but Ive not seen any evidence of that yet either.

Being overweight or underweight are just states the majority of us are in - not many people are at their ideal weight, assuming you get a definitive answer on what that would be anyway :).

To treat this topic as in insult is just strirring up controversy where there shouldnt be any.

and thus speaketh the truth...



The sooner we all come to realise that we're all people, faults & all, the better.

David Bailey
24th-May-2005, 12:25 PM
The only squirming I've done in this thread is under the weight of DianaS and her penetrating examination. It's not for nothing that I'm known far and wide as the ass with a silver tongue, you know.
:sick: You realise that some of us are at lunch now?

David Bailey
24th-May-2005, 12:28 PM
Originally Posted by The Right Honourable Goddess Lou
The sooner we all come to realise that we're all people, faults & all, the better.__________________
and thus speaketh the truth...
Ah, so Lou's definitely female, yes? Just checking... :whistle:

stewart38
24th-May-2005, 12:31 PM
I chose the word 'fat' quite deliberately. Yes people are sensitive about it, but it is, in fact, just another adjective. It's only in people's heads that it becomes an insult, a negative word, or most perniciously, a means to divide into "them" and "us." A couple of wise people have already pointed out that there's no dividing line - and if there's no line then how can there be a division?



So true. I find fat 'offensive' but that’s what's in my head

The point im trying to make re dancing with black people or allowing gays to dance is that we also make these words 'offensive'

I dance with white people /black people and Chinese people

It would be seen as offensive to say I don’t dance with black people but 'funny' if I said I don’t dance with Chinese people. If not 'funny' far less offensive or just a ridiculous comment. You could say I don’t dance with people who have birthdays in June etc and go the full way

One day it might be a comment like I don’t dance with black people maybe just seen as funny (Ie just stupid like I don’t dance with people over 5ft 10)

I don’t think im making the point well but if you say its 'sick' to say you don’t dance with 'black people' you are giving that person 'power' and putting 'black people' in a group.

Will
24th-May-2005, 12:46 PM
I'm impressed with the candidness of this thread. I mean, I never expected 4 people to out themselves as Hermaphrodites! :confused:

Lory
24th-May-2005, 01:01 PM
I'm impressed with the candidness of this thread. I mean, I never expected 4 people to out themselves as Hermaphrodites! :confused:

I'm a Phat Hermaphrodite and proud! :waycool:


and that coming from a transvestite, who won't dance with fat men! :really: :wink:

El Salsero Gringo
24th-May-2005, 01:06 PM
I'm impressed with the candidness of this thread. I mean, I never expected 4 people to out themselves as Hermaphrodites! :confused:On a point of order, I think we need to distinguish between sex and gender. People and animals have a sex and are either male or female, or perhaps (like Barbie and Ken) neither, or rarely both. Gender refers (gramatically) to words (which are masculine, feminine or neuter) and sometimes to sexual characteristics - for instance a feminine man, or a masculine woman.

What gender non-specific is supposed to means only heaven knows, and perhaps should become the subject of another poll.

Lou
24th-May-2005, 01:32 PM
What gender non-specific is supposed to means only heaven knows, and perhaps should become the subject of another poll.
Well - as I'm the "Right Honourable Goddess", "only heaven knows" is a pretty apt phrase.

You're such a darling pedant, ESG. :flower: I knew what I meant and I think everybody understood. ;)

If you're going to do another poll, I'd find it helpful if you offered an "other" option from the start next time.... :D

BTW... does anybody have a good word to describe someone who both leads and follows?

spindr
24th-May-2005, 01:36 PM
BTW... does anybody have a good word to describe someone who both leads and follows?
Well... in Lindy Hop... that would be someone who swings both ways :whistle:

stewart38
24th-May-2005, 01:39 PM
On a point of order, I think we need to distinguish between sex and gender. People and animals have a sex and are either male or female, or perhaps (like Barbie and Ken) neither, or rarely both. Gender refers (gramatically) to words (which are masculine, feminine or neuter) and sometimes to sexual characteristics - for instance a feminine man, or a masculine woman.

What gender non-specific is supposed to means only heaven knows, and perhaps should become the subject of another poll.

So why do we say 'she handles well' referring to car/boat and yes Id dance with both

MartinHarper
24th-May-2005, 01:45 PM
On a point of order, I think we need to distinguish between sex and gender.

See, eg, Wikipedia:Gender (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender), though the articles are mis-shaped by conflict between transgender folks and conservative (small 'c') folks.


does anybody have a good word to describe someone who both leads and follows?

"Ambidancetrous". Or just "sexy".

El Salsero Gringo
24th-May-2005, 01:49 PM
So why do we say 'she handles well' referring to car/boat and yes Id dance with bothPrecisely because "car" and "boat" are both nouns whose gender is feminine! And if you were talking in French then the same "she" construction would apply to tables, chairs, pens and other nouns that in English are neuter: "Je cherchais la plume de ma tante quand elle etait sur la table"


If you're going to do another poll, I'd find it helpful if you offered an "other" option from the start next time....It will be a pleasure. I can't promise that the "other" option will make any sense or be relevant to the question - or even not be in Klingon - but it will be there.

David Bailey
24th-May-2005, 02:09 PM
Precisely because "car" and "boat" are both nouns whose gender is feminine! And if you were talking in French then the same "she" construction would apply to tables, chairs, pens and other nouns that in English are neuter: "Je cherchais la plume de ma tante quand elle etait sur la table"
Ahh, now that's a good old ESG posting, we don't see enough of this level of precision nowdays.

You young whippersnappers - if you think this is pedantic, you just don't remember the Classic ESG period (around 16th March 2005, as I recall); watch and learn.

El Salsero Gringo
24th-May-2005, 02:18 PM
Ahh, now that's a good old ESG posting, we don't see enough of this level of precision nowdays.

You young whippersnappers - if you think this is pedantic, you just don't remember the Classic ESG period (around 16th March 2005, as I recall); watch and learn."Next week, children, we'll be focusing on the difference between fertile and fecund, and reveal why you should never open the door to strange donkeys."

David Bailey
24th-May-2005, 02:26 PM
"Next week, children, we'll be focusing on the difference between fertile and fecund, and reveal why you should never open the door to strange donkeys."
Well, whilst we're on important topics, "grammatically", has two "m"s (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122327&postcount=77).

Just to be helpful :whistle:

Daisy
24th-May-2005, 03:17 PM
While the still young, slim and beautiful among you may think that a thread of this nature is OK and 'quite lighthearted' for a discussion .....just remember this.....


ONE DAY YOU WILL BE OLDER, FATTER (than you are now and with saggy bits), WRINKLY AND FEELING A LOT MORE INSECURE THAN YOU MIGHT DO NOW! :whistle:

What goes around comes around and when someone younger and slimmer than you refuses to dance with you ask yourself this question..........

IS IT BECAUSE I'M OLD AND FAT? :sick:

Guess what.......you won't get an honest answer! :tears:

David Bailey
24th-May-2005, 03:39 PM
While the still youngNope :tears:

slimNot any more :tears: :tears:

beautifulHeh, never :tears: :tears: :tears:

Oh well, better top meself then :sad:

Or, failing that, how about liking ourselves for what we are, rather than what we're not and may never be? And if people don't want to dance with us, it's their loss not ours?

I'm getting all idealistic now, well it makes a nice change... :whistle:

Sheepman
24th-May-2005, 03:46 PM
"Next week, children, we'll be focusing on the difference between fertile and fecund, fecund? Already sorted here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122392&postcount=17)

Greg

stewart38
24th-May-2005, 04:33 PM
And if people don't want to dance with us, it's their loss not ours?

I'm getting all idealistic now, well it makes a nice change... :whistle:

In an ideal world it would be, in reality I guess it would be our loss as well .

So their loss could be our loss

Depends how we took the 'rejection'

Purple Sparkler
24th-May-2005, 04:52 PM
All I can say on this subject is: I dance with anyone who asks me (unless I'm TOTALLY knackered), and anyone who's standing near me when I'm trying to grab someone for a dance.

And anyone I know is a good dancer I 'click' with, regardless of looks.

And I will now open yet another can of worms (which may or may not have been opened elsewhere) and point out that there's the odd dancer that you wouldn't look twice at normally if you hadn't seen them dancing. I include myself in this.

Daisy
24th-May-2005, 07:14 PM
Nope :tears:
Not any more :tears: :tears:
Heh, never :tears: :tears: :tears:

Oh well, better top meself then :sad:



Well you and I may not be any of those things but the person that started this thread is.

Maybe if he were fatter and older he wouldn't have even thought to start it! :blush:

David Bailey
24th-May-2005, 07:24 PM
Well you and I may not be any of those things but the person that started this thread is.

Maybe if he were fatter and older he wouldn't have even thought to start it! :blush:
:rofl: :rofl: :clap: :clap:

Hee, fantastic - it's his fault for being tall dark and handsome... I like your thinking girl. :worthy:

Daisy
24th-May-2005, 07:31 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :clap: :clap:

Hee, fantastic - it's his fault for being tall dark and handsome... I like your thinking girl. :worthy:

His fault for being insensitive more like! :sad:

MartinHarper
24th-May-2005, 08:08 PM
ONE DAY YOU WILL BE [...] FEELING A LOT MORE INSECURE THAN YOU MIGHT DO NOW!

In my experience, as folks get older they tend to get more secure in how they look, and suffer less from problems with body image and self esteem. As a general rule, the biggest victims of insecurity tend to be teenage girls, which is why so many of them kill themselves with various hard-to-spell eating disorders.

The discussion about how El Salsero might change as he ages reminds me of one of my favourite poems:

In my early life I talked and made much sense.
Then I saw what an ass I was being, and for many years was silent.
Now I speak again, and listen with content to my braying.

bigdjiver
24th-May-2005, 09:09 PM
For the record:

Any classification of people is divisive. I am aware of most of my deficiencies and peculiarities. I do not like to be reminded of those that are beyond my control. I do not feel alone in that view. I find ESG insensitive in this matter.

Of of the reasons that I love MJ is that, for the most part, it is a reasonably level playing field, where, most of the time, all that matters is that we love dancing.

I see little useful purpose in this thread, although it has enabled us to express the "we will dance with anybody" ethos. However, expressing that, in itself, has its downside.

I once nearly bit my tongue off, when a perfectly delightful young lady said "I am a beginner, would you mind dancing with me?" and I was on the verge of replying "I will dance with anybody." How insulting would that have been?

I could do without the thought that when I am accepted for a dance it is because they will say yes to anybody, no matter if they are ________ .

It took me a long time to come to this view, I have done my share of laughing at other peoples characteristics in former times, and am not completely cured yet. (FOR 1 TO N: "Sorry" ...)

Gadget
24th-May-2005, 10:40 PM
...what next why should gays be allowed to dance...
Attitudes to Gay men... (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=646)
Gay Ceroc Nights (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2014)
Racial representation (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3013)
How old is too old? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3543)
How young is too young? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1947)
What makes a woman attractive? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4839)

I think that size-ism has also been covered somewhere, but from all of these discussions one thing stands out: We know we are all different - we just don't think it makes a difference to how you should be treated. :cool:

Clive Long
24th-May-2005, 10:43 PM
<< snip >>
We know we are all different - we just don't think it makes a difference to how you should be treated. :cool:
:yeah:
Great line, great sentiment.
Give that man an award someone.

ducasi
25th-May-2005, 01:20 AM
Any classification of people is divisive. Indeed, and the world's full of them. MJ's full of them. Are you a beginner? Are you a good lead? Are you a good follower? Are you active or passive? Are you a fun dancer? Are you stylish? All these are questions can divide us into different categories, and some people will even openly admit to not wanting to dance with people in the wrong side of that category.

You'll see people say things like "I'll dance with anybody who will give me a fun dance" or "I watch for the good dancers to dance with".

How about the people who aren't fun or good dancers? Don't they have feelings too?

I am aware of most of my deficiencies and peculiarities. I do not like to be reminded of those that are beyond my control. As someone who recently lost a fair chunk of weight (about 20% of my body mass), I think that unlike many of the other things people can discriminate over, weight is one that is under most people's control if they want it to be.

OK, some people have got a medical condition that makes them overweight – there's not much they can do in this case. Anybody else can change their diet and exercise more if they want to lose weight.

But it's whatever makes you happy. What anyone else thinks is not important. No-one can make you feel bad without your permission.

My own feelings are that I will dance with pretty much anyone who asks me, and I'll ask anyone who I think is a nice person – an impression usually formed during the class. (So if you want me to ask you to dance, come to the class and be nice to me when you come round to me. You might even say something like "we should have a dance later". :nice: Better still, just ask me. I'll be flattered, no matter who or what you are. :flower: )

David Bailey
25th-May-2005, 09:47 AM
{ snip lots of good stuff, all of which I agree with }

I once nearly bit my tongue off, when a perfectly delightful young lady said "I am a beginner, would you mind dancing with me?" and I was on the verge of replying "I will dance with anybody." How insulting would that have been?
Err - dunno, I don't think that's insulting at all, really. Maybe a bit redundant; a "yes, of course" with a smile is my limit of conversational ability... :sad:

El Salsero Gringo
25th-May-2005, 09:50 AM
Any classification of people is divisive. I am aware of most of my deficiencies and peculiarities. I do not like to be reminded of those that are beyond my control. I do not feel alone in that view. I find ESG insensitive in this matter.Ultimately, it's you that decides that being classified as 'fat' is a deficiency. It's not inherent in the word. Perhaps I am insensitive to your offended feelings, but the offence is one that you create inside your own mind, and continues to exist only with your permission.


I see little useful purpose in this thread, although it has enabled us to express the "we will dance with anybody" ethos. However, expressing that, in itself, has its downside.Apart from the trivial "we will dance with anybody" message, there are other points. Firstly, how artificial it is to categorize people as 'fat' or 'not fat'. Secondly, how easily we pass over comments about 'men with scrawny chests' - scrawny, note, not just thin or unmuscled - yet the word 'fat' can generate so much debate.


I once nearly bit my tongue off, when a perfectly delightful young lady said "I am a beginner, would you mind dancing with me?" and I was on the verge of replying "I will dance with anybody." How insulting would that have been?Why would that have been insulting? Speaking only for myself, I *will* dance with anybody. If *you* won't dance with anybody, would you like to tell us which categories of people you'd turn down? Or did you want her mislead her into thinking that you don't normally dance with beginners but she was so special you'd make an exception?


I could do without the thought that when I am accepted for a dance it is because they will say yes to anybody, no matter if they are ________ .On the contrary, that's the best approach to take with a stranger: I'll dance with anyone, no matter if they are fat, thin, gay, Jewish, have red hair, or were born in March. None of those things make a difference to the fun of having a dance with them. The only construction I can put on your sentence is that *you* want to be accepted for a dance because you are *better* than everyone else for your being fat, thin, Jewish, red hair or born in March? That makes no sense.


It took me a long time to come to this view, I have done my share of laughing at other peoples characteristics in former times, and am not completely cured yet. (FOR 1 TO N: "Sorry" ...)In what way aren't you cured, then?

On a personal note: I have my full share of insecurities, just like everyone else. For instance, I've spent a lot of time and effort trying to put on weight because I felt I was too thin. But I recognise that when someone draws attention to something about which I'm insecure, the 'upset' is created and persists entirely by my own choice.

Dreadful Scathe
25th-May-2005, 10:25 AM
Why would that have been insulting? Speaking only for myself, I *will* dance with anybody. If *you* won't dance with anybody, would you like to tell us which categories of people you'd turn down? Or did you want her mislead her into thinking that you don't normally dance with beginners but she was so special you'd make an exception?

Indeed. I found Bigdjivers comment strange too - what would be insulting about saying "I dance with anyone"? "I dance with anyone except you", now thats insulting :).


But I recognise that when someone draws attention to something about which I'm insecure, the 'upset' is created and persists entirely by my own choice.

With me, if theres something Im insecure about - peoples comments remind me of it and I can either accept it or try to change it - but others noticing it is hardly a surprise if ive noticed it myself. I think people eventually learn to accept themselves and those with low self esteem that can't do that, need to learn to comunicate with others who can help build up their low self esteem. Everyone has something to offer, no one is 'useless' even if they think they are. Topics like this one are perfect for that sort of thing, anyone can join in and feel a part of something positive.

I agree with the Gadget award thing : 'For wise advice to chickenheads everywhere' :)

David Bailey
25th-May-2005, 10:29 AM
Apart from the trivial "we will dance with anybody" message, there are other points. Firstly, how artificial it is to categorize people as 'fat' or 'not fat'. Secondly, how easily we pass over comments about 'men with scrawny chests' - scrawny, note, not just thin or unmuscled - yet the word 'fat' can generate so much debate.
:yeah: (to a point)

It's become a cliche that for a woman to talk about male physical attributes is Empowering, whereas for a man to talk about female physical attributes is Degrading.

Hence, scrawny chests / good/bad bums etc. are fair game for women to talk about men, but not for men to talk about women. Going to see male strippers is a good laugh for the girls, but is a sad and sexist occasion for the guys.

Hmmm, this is getting way too serious; I think a "Do you dance with people wearing gratuitious amounts of eyeliner" poll is required. Or possibly, "How do you cope with big boobs" :)

On a personal note, I'm bascally an Adonis, with no personal insecurities whatsoever, especially not about height, weight, age or, ahem, cortical follicular density. No. None at all. Wibble wibble wibble... :innocent:

(Actually, that statement is true if I compare myself to Andrew Adonis the new education minister - my goodness, there's a name to be saddled with, considering his looks :eek: )

David Bailey
25th-May-2005, 10:40 AM
With me, if theres something Im insecure about - peoples comments remind me of it and I can either accept it or try to change it.

Yes, stop being so blue, for goodness sakes. Or: "Do you dance with blue people?" :)

David, who's just just spent 2 minutes of my life wondering who "El Jivero Bingo" was :blush:

bigdjiver
25th-May-2005, 11:00 AM
Indeed. I found Bigdjivers comment strange too - what would be insulting about saying "I dance with anyone"? "I dance with anyone except you", now thats insulting :).Can it be that in my old age I am developing sensitivity?

To my, apparantly over-sensitive, ear the reply "I will dance with anybody." has the implication "even you."

Clive Long
25th-May-2005, 11:03 AM
Can it be that in my old age I am developing sensitivity?

To my, apparantly over-sensitive, ear the reply "I will dance with anybody." has the implication "even you."
... and that's exactly how I read your posting bigdjiver, so it's you and me against the rest of 'em. So grrr, grrr, and double grrrr .....


On a personal note, I'm bascally an Adonis, with no personal insecurities whatsoever, especially not about height, weight, age or, ahem, cortical follicular density. No. None at all. Wibble wibble wibble...

(Actually, that statement is true if I compare myself to Andrew Adonis the new education minister - my goodness, there's a name to be saddled with, considering his looks )

Stop it! :rofl: Stop it! :rofl:
You just made me spray my corn flakes all over the keyboard (late start today :blush: :) )

Clive

Jazz_Shoes (Ash)
25th-May-2005, 11:05 AM
Can it be that in my old age I am developing sensitivity?

To my, apparantly over-sensitive, ear the reply "I will dance with anybody." has the implication "even you."

:yeah: I thought he meant that too.

Simon r
25th-May-2005, 11:09 AM
Can it be that in my old age I am developing sensitivity?

To my, apparantly over-sensitive, ear the reply "I will dance with anybody." has the implication "even you."
:yeah:

David Bailey
25th-May-2005, 11:12 AM
To my, apparantly over-sensitive, ear the reply "I will dance with anybody." has the implication "even you."
Ahh, that makes a bit of sense. Hmmm, maybe, but I think you'd have to be pretty hyper-sensitive to let that worry you. You (the beginner!) have already implied that you're not worthy (or whatever), so someone even implicitly agreeing with you is hardly a major insult. Just don't see it as a problem really...

Like all these things, it's probably in how it's said more than what is said - I could imagine that line being delivered in several different ways.

Lou
25th-May-2005, 11:19 AM
"Do you dance with people wearing gratuitious amounts of eyeliner"
I often think there's not enough eyeliner these days. Bring back the eighties! :D


Or possibly, "How do you cope with big boobs" :)
I've learnt to live with 'em... However, as I've said before, it's only really difficult when you're dancing with someone equally well endowed. :whistle:

David Bailey
25th-May-2005, 11:25 AM
I've learnt to live with 'em... However, as I've said before, it's only really difficult when you're dancing with someone equally well endowed. :whistle:

Wa-hey :drool: :drool: :drool:

Oh, and :rofl:

bigdjiver
25th-May-2005, 11:38 AM
For the record I have consulted the weight height and age charts, and I am the perfect weight. I do, however, appear to be several inches too short, and many years too young.


On a personal note: I have my full share of insecurities, just like everyone else. For instance, I've spent a lot of time and effort trying to put on weight because I felt I was too thin. But I recognise that when someone draws attention to something about which I'm insecure, the 'upset' is created and persists entirely by my own choice.The light dawns - "scrawny" hit an old scar, and you have reacted.


Ultimately, it's you that decides that being classified as 'fat' is a deficiency. The Doctors say so. Fashion says so. The expenditure on slimming products say so. Kids jeering at you in the street give more than than a hint. Unless you have experienced that, which I had not until recently ...


But I recognise that when someone draws attention to something about which I'm insecure, the 'upset' is created and persists entirely by my own choice. ... I had long been in need of a haircut, and seeing an empty barber shop, (a clue there) I had it cut. Result "Dodgy" haircut.

On my (speedy) walk to Ceroc I passed a group of teenagers. A girl called out loudly "wiggy". The upset may have persisted by my own choice, but I think it was a choice that most people would have made.

I dealt with that. Armed with the knowledge that my haircut was even more dodgy that I had thought, I was even more perturbed by the number of partners that told me it looked so much better. :eek:


The only construction I can put on your sentence is that *you* want to be accepted for a dance because you are *better* than everyone else for your being fat, thin, Jewish, red hair or born in March? That makes no sense.That is why I did not write that.
I want to be accepted for a dance because my partner wants to dance with me, and for no other reason. I complain only about being accepted by ladies who believe that they have to say yes. The more my partner enjoys the dance the more I do. If some spectators enjoy it too, my joy is compounded.

El Salsero Gringo
25th-May-2005, 11:52 AM
Can it be that in my old age I am developing sensitivity?

To my, apparantly over-sensitive, ear the reply "I will dance with anybody." has the implication "even you."OK, I see what you mean now. It's interesting that you picked, as an example, the one attribute that you'd be most "justified" in turning down a dance for - that she was a beginner. (When I say justified, what I mean of course is not that you should turn down beginners - and that's another debate we've already had.) What I mean is that at a dance class or club, about the most rational criterion for deciding who to dance with is how good they are. So I think "I'm a beginner - will you dance with me?" followed by "yes, I'll dance with anyone" isn't insulting at all, it's showing your kindness.


The Doctors say so. Fashion says so. The expenditure on slimming products say so. Kids jeering at you in the street give more than than a hint.I understand that, and the times I've been in a similar position I have also found it most unpleasant. But it's the kids' reaction that is the real problem - not the weight of the person they're jeering at. Feel bad, by all means, for the kids. But you don't need to transfer the insult onto the thing they're laughing at.

Daisy Chain
25th-May-2005, 12:15 PM
Size is irrelevant once I get a man on the dance floor. There are a few large (tall and / or well covered) who are amongst my favourite dancers because they are very light on their feet, are well balanced and actually move instead of standing still and hurling the lady around with no consideration given to the weight difference. The sensation of a "good larger" dancer is no different to a slim athlete with the same dancing ability. Admittedly, on occasion we must look incongruously like Little and Large but who is watching?

However, if I didn't know these men were such good partners, I probably wouldn't ask them to dance with me but I wouldn't turn them down if they asked. Blame Mother Nature. She has women programmed to choose attractive partners who will produce good healthy offspring. She also programmes us to like rich men with nice cars as they will be able to provide enough food etc for these offspring.

Even though I do prefer rich handsome strangers, I only want to dance with them! Imagine. If they gave me offspring :eek: I wouldn't be able to go out dancing quite so often

Daisy

(A Contraceptively Protected Little Flower)

JoC
25th-May-2005, 12:38 PM
"Je cherchais la plume de ma tante quand elle etait sur la table"


Not sure its proper that a neveu should be looking for his tante's plume when she's in such a vulnerable position.

Andy McGregor
25th-May-2005, 05:00 PM
Not sure its proper that a neveu should be looking for his tante's plume when she's in such a vulnerable position.
Although I no longer post I do visit for a read once in a while and I thought I'd just pop in to say what a nasty divisive and insulting thread this is - not only is it upsetting to everyone who thinks they're fat, it keeps looking up its own backside and questioning it's very purpose - until this delightful light hearted post by JoC :worthy:

Sorry, did I say I don't post any more?

Oops! :whistle:

David Bailey
25th-May-2005, 05:24 PM
Although I no longer post I do visit for a read once in a while and I thought I'd just pop in to say what a nasty divisive and insulting thread this is
Ahh, now that's an endorsement. It's a properly certified thread now.

Go on, Andy, post some more, I know ESG misses you... :whistle:

El Salsero Gringo
25th-May-2005, 05:28 PM
Although I no longer post I do visit for a read once in a while and I thought I'd just pop in to say what a nasty divisive and insulting thread this is - not only is it upsetting to everyone who thinks they're fat...Well that is good of you. I'm sure "everyone who thinks they're fat" will be delighted to know that they have you to speak on their behalf.

Dance Demon
25th-May-2005, 05:59 PM
Although I no longer post I do visit for a read once in a while and I thought I'd just pop in to say what a nasty divisive and insulting thread this is - not only is it upsetting to everyone who thinks they're fat, it keeps looking up its own backside and questioning it's very purpose - until this delightful light hearted post by JoC :worthy:

Sorry, did I say I don't post any more?

Oops! :whistle:

:yeah: ..Nice to have ya back Andy :wink:

Daisy
25th-May-2005, 06:29 PM
: "How do you cope with big boobs"

Fine thankyou :rofl: :devil: :rofl:

Daisy
25th-May-2005, 06:38 PM
Although I no longer post I do visit for a read once in a while and I thought I'd just pop in to say what a nasty divisive and insulting thread this is - not only is it upsetting to everyone who thinks they're fat, it keeps looking up its own backside and questioning it's very purpose - until this delightful light hearted post by JoC :worthy:

Sorry, did I say I don't post any more?

Oops! :whistle:

:yeah:

Andy

Thankyou sooooo...... much for this posting. I couldn't have said it better myself! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Mary
25th-May-2005, 06:41 PM
"How do you cope with big boobs" :)



Wish I had them, but I've learnt to cope without (big ones that is!).

M

Mary
25th-May-2005, 06:46 PM
Forgot to say hi Andy and welcome back - things should liven up a bit round here now. :wink: :D

M

Lory
25th-May-2005, 06:55 PM
"How do you cope with big boobs"
Develop a very smooth style! :whistle:

Minnie M
25th-May-2005, 06:57 PM
Although I no longer post I do visit for a read once in a while and I thought I'd just pop in to say what a nasty divisive and insulting thread this is - not only is it upsetting to everyone who thinks they're fat, it keeps looking up its own backside and questioning it's very purpose - until this delightful light hearted post by JoC :worthy:

Sorry, did I say I don't post any more?

Oops! :whistle:

:yeah: Welcome Back :clap:


are fat, thin, gay, Jewish, have red hair, or were born in March
and big boobs


I am a Fat, Old, Jewish person with big boobs, red hair and was born on the 23rd of MARCH :rofl:

The only thing I am not, is thin and gay - but, I am on a diet and am single :whistle:

David Bailey
25th-May-2005, 07:41 PM
As far as calling moves beforehand is concerned, there is a lot of talk of 'verbal leads' for certain drops/aerials etc but generally they aren't necessary for social freestyle moves - I would have thought that, especially since many venues don't seem to teach moves by name, the follower is, in general, more likely to know the move from the lead than from the name!
There is one "lady-duck-under" move I do, again because I'm A Nasty Person, which pretty much mandates a "duck" call - if I don't say it, there's a 50-50 chance it'll go horribly Pete Tong. But that's definitely an exception - for most moves, if you have to give verbal direction, it's an indication that you're not leading it clearly...


I am a Fat, Old, Jewish person with big boobs, red hair and was born on the 23rd of MARCH
:what:
Bet you feel paranoid now :D

:hug:

Minnie M
25th-May-2005, 07:55 PM
Bet you feel paranoid now .......
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Got my description down to a tee :rofl: me paranoid ............. :na: but I could be now :tears:

Barry Shnikov
25th-May-2005, 10:23 PM
"How do you cope with big boobs"

Personally, one at a time, both hands...

(Ducks)

David Bailey
26th-May-2005, 07:59 AM
Personally, one at a time, both hands...

(Ducks)
:rofl: :rofl:

Look, this is a Serious Thread, OK?? Andy has said so...

Clive Long
26th-May-2005, 09:47 AM
Although I no longer post I do visit for a read once in a while and I thought I'd just pop in to say what a nasty divisive and insulting thread this is << Snip rest >>

I can understand your sentiments, and you have a more important contribution to make to the general MJ scene by running your dance events, but we do miss your homely and robust battles against the general tide of filth served up around here ( :wink: BTW ).
I wish I was as controlled as you about responding to posts. I have been described as a prolific poster; I think (look away if easily offended) incontinent is more accurate.

Clive

(opportunity for pedants - no idea if the use of semi-colon in the above is legitimate).

stewart38
26th-May-2005, 10:24 AM
:yeah: Welcome Back :clap:


The only thing I am not, is thin and gay - but, I am on a diet and am single :whistle:

I have 'thining' hair and a bit of grey at sides but I hope the 2nd is not noticeable yet !

Will
26th-May-2005, 12:28 PM
The only thing I've got to say about this thread is that I didn't need a poll to tell me that Andy McGregor is Gender non-specific!

Dreadful Scathe
26th-May-2005, 01:00 PM
I have 'thining' hair and a bit of grey at sides but I hope the 2nd is not noticeable yet !
she said 'gay' not grey :)

Sparkles
26th-May-2005, 01:02 PM
The only thing I've got to say about this thread is that I didn't need a poll to tell me that Andy McGregor is Gender non-specific!

:yeah: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Really wanted to rep you for that, but have to spread it around first, sorry...

Scotch Bonnet
29th-May-2005, 09:44 PM
Some of the best dancers are of the larger 'image' ;) :cool: and boy do they know how to move(look at Claire in Strictly dance fever).Mind you ,you never see slim/skinny girls sitting like wallflowers for very long !! Do you ?? :rolleyes:

Minnie M
29th-May-2005, 10:18 PM
.........girls sitting like wallflowers for very long !! Do you ?? :rolleyes:

There is no need for any girl to be sitting as wallflowers, whether fat or skinny with MJ - we are all (well most of us) quite happy asking the guys to dance if they don't come to us - that is one of the great things about our dance :clap: and as far as I know they quite like it :innocent:

Demota
29th-May-2005, 10:22 PM
The results of this poll speak with forked tongue - I know some larger ladies and they just don't get danced with unless they get good. The reality is that a different technique needs to be used with larger ladies. Maybe you guys think you are immune to fatism but you're not.

PS - big girls rule

Minnie M
29th-May-2005, 10:28 PM
The reality is that a different technique needs to be used with larger ladies.........
WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH :angry:
The only thing that is different - is most guys don't do lifts or drops with me :blush:

Whitebeard
29th-May-2005, 11:17 PM
There is no need for any girl to be sitting as wallflowers, whether fat or skinny with MJ - we are all (well most of us) quite happy asking the guys to dance if they don't come to us - that is one of the great things about our dance and as far as I know they quite like it.
Too true. And many thanks to all those ladies who've dragged me (kicking and screaming or course) onto the dance floor. Without that encouragement I might well have fallen by the wayside. Now you're lumbered with me and I just hope you feel it was worth it !!!

Dreadful Scathe
29th-May-2005, 11:21 PM
The results of this poll speak with forked tongue - I know some larger ladies and they just don't get danced with unless they get good. The reality is that a different technique needs to be used with larger ladies. Maybe you guys think you are immune to fatism but you're not.

A different technique ? I find i dance with everyone differently simply because everyone is different - they all get a different technique because every dance involves people adapting to each other to make it a good dance. Dance ability is the biggest hurdle when you are dancing with someone not weight.

Demota
29th-May-2005, 11:30 PM
WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH :angry:
The only thing that is different - is most guys don't do lifts or drops with me :blush:
Hey Minnie... you're on the wrong side of the fence to really know that. Don't get me wrong it's all fun - just different.

Minnie M
29th-May-2005, 11:36 PM
Hey Minnie... you're on the wrong side of the fence to really know that. Don't get me wrong it's all fun - just different.
OK point taken

However, I can lead too, and other than what DS has said I really can't believe that men dance differently with me or any other big person purely because they are big (other than the lifts and drops) I am sure James would agree (of James & Claire fame)

- Help me here fellas :really:

TheTramp
29th-May-2005, 11:45 PM
I find that 'weight' (the pull on my arms) in dancing is quite often nothing to do with the actual weight of the person I'm dancing with*.

In fact, some of the 'lightest' people I've danced with have been quite large ladies - who are more aware of their 'weight' because of their size. The 'heaviest' woman I've ever danced with (as far as I can judge it) was also one of the smallest ladies.

So yes, I agree with Demota, kind of. I use a different technique, depending on the 'weight' of the lady in order to protect my arms/shoulders (slowing it down, smaller moves, more beginner moves). But this has nothing to do with the actual size of the lady, which is what I think that she meant!

(*This has probably been said before, but can't be bothered reading the rest of the thread to check it out).

Dance Demon
30th-May-2005, 12:04 AM
OK point taken

However, I can lead too, and other than what DS has said I really can't believe that men dance differently with me or any other big person purely because they are big (other than the lifts and drops) I am sure James would agree (of James & Claire fame)

- Help me here fellas :really:

I had some really fab dances with you at Southport last year Minnie, in fact probably some of the best dances I had all weekend. I don't think I have ever had to make any adjustments in the way I dance if I'm dancing with larger ladies. Having said that, I'm not exactly anorexic myself :wink:

Minnie M
30th-May-2005, 12:16 AM
I had some really fab dances with you at Southport last year Minnie, in fact probably some of the best dances I had all weekend. I don't think I have ever had to make any adjustments in the way I dance if I'm dancing with larger ladies. Having said that, I'm not exactly anorexic myself :wink:

Thanks Trampy and DS for explaining why the lead makes adjustments for their followers - but for their dancing / or following ability not for their actual weight AND Thank you DD :kiss: :flower: :hug: , I was really starting to believe you guys actually were making 'fat people' adjustments for me.

I can go to bed now, feeling much happier :flower: in fact triple happy after DD's post :blush:

frodo
30th-May-2005, 01:40 AM
The results of this poll speak with forked tongue - I know some larger ladies and they just don't get danced with unless they get good. The reality is that a different technique needs to be used with larger ladies. Maybe you guys think you are immune to fatism but you're not.

PS - big girls rule

Perhaps a distinction needs to be made between beginners and more experienced dancers.

In my experience larger ladies tend to be somewhat better than average, and have lowish effective 'weight' (as in TheTramps' post) - so few technique issues are involved.

I do think it is harder to dance with big beginners ( to partner dancing ) though.

It can take a lot of concentration / care of technique, which you might otherwise get away without - not perhaps a bad thing though.

MartinHarper
30th-May-2005, 03:11 AM
The reality is that a different technique needs to be used with larger ladies.

After a certain level of experience, physical weight doesn't normally translate into perceived "heaviness" (of the bad kind) in following. Before that level, it does. No big deal - I'm happy to adapt, just as my partners are happy to adapt to me.
Thinking further, I suspect it's not weight per se, but rather power/weight ratio.

The other influence is physical size. In closed position, if I can't easily reach my partner's opposite hip, that limits the type of lead I can provide - specifically, it makes it harder to lead her to move her opposite hip backwards. I can lead from the back instead; this requires some compression between her back and my hand; not all women give that compression. There are a few other places where the geometry of the situation has an influence on matters - the Basket Walkthrough, for example. These things apply to both beginning and experienced women.

While we're talking geometry, skinny women often have exposed spines, as I do. This makes things a little more complicated, as spine leads are apparently uncomfortable, and to be avoided. Also, hip leads are affected by the reduction in torque; it can be a little harder for me to lead the difference between "move" and "rotate".

All IMO, as ever. Fortunately, my happiness when dancing is not dependant on this kind of trivia, though it makes for a good excuse to witter on at y'all.

Lou
30th-May-2005, 10:45 AM
After a certain level of experience, [snip] it makes for a good excuse to witter on at y'all.
Hmmmmm... all of a sudden I'm starting to feel somewhat like a lab rat... :sick:

David Bailey
30th-May-2005, 10:17 PM
Thinking further, I suspect it's not weight per se, but rather power/weight ratio.

{ snip lots of complicated stuff }

Great Ghu, Martin, doesn't your head explode occasionally?

:grin:

Donna
1st-June-2005, 01:48 PM
I agree with the tramp that it's nothing to do with their weight. During a beginners class, I have to dance as the male and have danced with one big woman who is fit and can carry her own weight really well. You can be fat and fit you know, some people just can't manage to lose weight despite all the exercise they do. I also have to agree that the man would still have to change his technique to make it easier. On the other hand, I have danced with one lady who was twice the size and whilst doing a whirlizer, I did a triple spin on the spot and she (bless her) was still half way round on one spin!!! :D That a terrible thing to say isn't it. :blush:

Shaz
17th-June-2006, 04:35 PM
........ I did a triple spin on the spot and she (bless her) was still half way round on one spin!!! :D That a terrible thing to say isn't it. :blush:
:mad: bless her - how patronising is that

Who dug up this thread anyway :angry:

Dan Hudson
17th-June-2006, 04:58 PM
:mad: bless her - how patronising is that

Who dug up this thread anyway :angry:

:yeah: f***** rude if you ask me:angry:

Seahorse
17th-June-2006, 05:02 PM
I find it incredible that we are even discussing this at time when society is striving to appreciate the diversity around us - what will the next thread be? Do you dance with black people or someone who is disabled?

A partners size/physique isn't an issue - what matters is how they move - whether they can keep time and can listen to the music... and how much fun they are to be with!

Ask yourself what is defined as 'fat'? If you wish to make distinction with regards to physique then please be accurate and define it terms of Body Mass Index (BMI) as seen here http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/healthy_living/your_weight/bmiimperial_index.shtml

Where it is equated to an individual’s height.

It's nonsense and selfish to assume that because someone is different to ourselves in terms of build/appearance/personality, then it might depreciate from our dancing experience :mad:

Minnie M
17th-June-2006, 05:45 PM
:mad: bless her - how patronising is that

Who dug up this thread anyway :angry:
:yeah: :angry:

I think someone added to the poll that reserected it :eek: not sure what the vote was though

I think I have worked out who it is - I wonder if the person will say:whistle:

Shaz
17th-June-2006, 05:51 PM
I think I have worked out who it is - I wonder if the person will say:whistle:
:yeah: ah ha ..... yep I got it too

fletch
17th-June-2006, 06:50 PM
I haven’t read the thread all the way through but just enough to get a flavour for certain individuals.

From someone who has experienced weight from both side of the fence and spends all my working life with people battling weight it doesn’t surprise me is the slightest some of the comments that have been made.

One of my famous sayings is, “ we can’t all be perfect we are just different”, perhaps if certain individuals weren’t so perfect and up there own AR$E they might be able to see past ANY exterior and look into a persons heart, this kind of prejudice makes me soooooo angry.:angry:

WittyBird
17th-June-2006, 07:00 PM
One of my famous sayings is, “ we can’t all be perfect we are just different”, perhaps if certain individuals weren’t so perfect and up there own AR$E they might be able to see past ANY exterior and look into a persons heart, this kind of prejudice makes me soooooo angry.:angry:


:yeah: I really don't understand prejudice at all it winds me up :mad: I just hate everyone I find its fairer that way :D

fletch
17th-June-2006, 07:10 PM
:yeah: I really don't understand prejudice at all it winds me up :mad: I just hate everyone I find its fairer that way :D

No you don't, well I hope you don't hate me:flower:

I just wonder how lonely it is in that perfect world:na:

WittyBird
17th-June-2006, 07:14 PM
I just wonder how lonely it is in that perfect world:na:

Very :tears:

El Salsero Gringo
17th-June-2006, 07:37 PM
I find it incredible that we are even discussing this at time when society is striving to appreciate the diversity around us - what will the next thread be? Do you dance with black people or someone who is disabled?I think you need to look at this thread in the context of what else was happening on the forum at the time I started it before coming to any conclusions.

MartinHarper
17th-June-2006, 07:51 PM
What will the next thread be? Do you dance with black people or someone who is disabled?

How about "Do you dance with guys with scrawny chests?".

fletch
17th-June-2006, 08:00 PM
I dance with anyone :flower:

Fat, thin, tall, short, boy, girl, begginer and I try to give it 100%

:hug:

David Bailey
17th-June-2006, 09:24 PM
I find it incredible that we are even discussing this at time when society is striving to appreciate the diversity around us - what will the next thread be? Do you dance with black people or someone who is disabled?
Well, I recall we had equivalent threads, possibly even less serious, about dancing with Tall people and dancing with bald people :rolleyes: But I'm sure Mr Stirrer Gringo can fill you in...


A partners size/physique isn't an issue - what matters is how they move - whether they can keep time and can listen to the music... and how much fun they are to be with!
Slight disagreement - although I agree that "how someone moves" is probably the most important thing when dancing with them, I think physique does matter. For example, I'm only little, so I don't do drops or airsteps - I don't have the height or mass to carry them off stylishly or safely (well, at least, not without lots of training which I can't be bothered with). So I wouldn't expect a dips / drops fanatic to make me her first choice as partner.


It's nonsense and selfish to assume that because someone is different to ourselves in terms of build/appearance/personality, then it might depreciate from our dancing experience :mad:
The only thing that depreciates from my dancing experience is not doing it.

But if we think that appearance is never a factor on the dance floor, we're living in a fool's paradise. It just means that those of us like me who are tubby old, bald and ugly need to work harder on our dancing, because I know for sure no-one'll ever pick me based on my looks :)

Frankie_4711
18th-June-2006, 09:45 AM
I'll dance with anyone and everyone - full stop!

Wendy
18th-June-2006, 12:14 PM
Based on the premise that we are all accepted in Danceland, then there is a place for every kind of thread on the forum. You don't have to read them if you are offended by them (BTW the title is usually a bit of a clue :rolleyes:) and you only draw MORE attention to them by posting - aka bumping I believe.

Too sunny to reply right now :D Off to eat more fromage and gateaux cos I'm so depressed about not getting as much dancing as I 'd like :eek:

Wx

Juju
18th-June-2006, 12:19 PM
You're missing a voting option for: "I'm a fat man/woman and no one dances with me".

Juju
18th-June-2006, 12:32 PM
(Heh, it's like Amazon recommendations. "If you were offended by this thread, you may also be offended by...")

Off-topic I know, but... how's this for a bizarre recommendation, straight from Amazon: "We recommended... 'In Black and White: The Life of Sammy Davis, Jr' because you recently viewed... 'Dead Pets: Stuff Them, Eat Them, Love Them' " ??!

Can anyone shed any light on this?? :what:

Magic Hans
18th-June-2006, 08:12 PM
You're missing a voting option for: "I'm a fat man/woman and no one dances with me".

This one's a very good point, in my opinion. An "not young slim and gorgeous" girl from Nottingham commented to me at Southport, that she didn't expect to get too many dances precisely because of her appearance.

Dancing is, by its very nature, a physically interractive past-time, involving being more close to someone else than we usually would be [unless we're on a packed tube during rush hour - which is completely impersonal].

Call me sceptical or cynical, but for someone to say that the appearance of who they dance with is entirely immaterial, is, I believe disingenuous [ ... and may indeed be self-deceptive; an ability that we are all masters of].

I, for one, will unashamedly honest in saying that my choice of asking for a dance is affected by how physically attractive I find the girl. It is also affected by the enjoyment of previous dances I might have had, and if I've noticed that they have not danced for a few tracks.

I'll not, however, refuse a dance unless I really want to take a break. [But even then, I'll not refuse someone I find drop dead gorgeous].

If this makes me a nasty person, then a nasty person I am!!!

!an

El Salsero Gringo
18th-June-2006, 08:28 PM
You're missing a voting option for: "I'm a fat man/woman and no one dances with me".I didn't 'miss' any options - I put in exactly the ones I wanted to be there.

If you interpret the thread title too literally, then the point has got lost somewhere.

Graham
19th-June-2006, 08:48 AM
Off-topic I know, but... how's this for a bizarre recommendation, straight from Amazon: "We recommended... 'In Black and White: The Life of Sammy Davis, Jr' because you recently viewed... 'Dead Pets: Stuff Them, Eat Them, Love Them' " ??!

Can anyone shed any light on this?? :what:
I believe that the way Amazon's recommendations work is largely through the input of previous customers. People are invited to rate the items on sale, and Amazon also keeps a database of what everyone has bought. In general this works well, but occasionally for less popular items the recommendations might be based on the input of just one or two people.

Top Bird
19th-June-2006, 09:20 AM
I dance with anyone with the exception of The Corpse, got caught once, never again:eek:

jivecat
19th-June-2006, 09:35 AM
Call me sceptical or cynical, but for someone to say that the appearance of who they dance with is entirely immaterial, is, I believe disingenuous [ ... and may indeed be self-deceptive; an ability that we are all masters of].

I, for one, will unashamedly honest in saying that my choice of asking for a dance is affected by how physically attractive I find the girl. It is also affected by the enjoyment of previous dances I might have had, and if I've noticed that they have not danced for a few tracks.

If that's your mindset (and it doesn't come as a complete surprise to me :rolleyes: ) then no wonder you can't believe that the physical appearance of who you choose to dance might be immaterial to many people. But I think I am being totally honest when I say that it's the quality of the dance experience that wins for me, hands down, every time. I am not interested in asking blokes to dance just because I think they're good-looking. I'm not even interested in that as a "bonus". I would avoid a physically attractive man who I had a poor dance experience with.


I have noticed, though, (and you might fall into this) that there is a category of blokes that give off a certain vibe of only wanting to dance with women that they fancy. If I don't fall within this subset then I will not get a good dance connection with them, so generally I don't bother asking them. I can tell within nanoseconds if it was a mistake to ask them.

I can't understand it, myself. It seems such a narrow, blinkered and restricting mindset that only sets a value on relationships based on physical sexuality. It's like perceiving the world in black and white when in reality it's richly coloured and textured, and set with jewels.


If this makes me a nasty person, then a nasty person I am!!!



Not exactly, but it surprises me in a way because I thought you cared about dancing (as well)!

jivecat
19th-June-2006, 09:38 AM
I dance with anyone with the exception of The Corpse, got caught once, never again:eek:

Gotta dance with this Corpse guy, just for the experience! Point him out sometime.

(Hi Top Bird, nice to meet you at Southport!)

ducasi
19th-June-2006, 09:53 AM
But I think I am being totally honest when I say that it's the quality of the dance experience that wins for me, hands down, every time. I am not interested in asking blokes to dance just because I think they're good-looking. I'm not even interested in that as a "bonus". I would avoid a physically attractive man who I had a poor dance experience with. But given two blokes you've never met, never danced with before, equally convenient to ask – one is tall, slim and good-looking, the other fat, bald and ugly (and I don't mean Trampy here!) – who would you choose to ask to dance to your favourite song?

I think that's the point Magic Hans was making – all other things being equal, most guys I think would choose the girl they find more attractive – I know I would...

Of course, once you've danced with someone you have a better criteria for deciding how much you want to dance with them again...

LMC
19th-June-2006, 10:07 AM
All other things being equal (i.e. if I have no idea of the likely quality of the dance) then I freely admit that I go for looks (height being the big decider for me - being tall, I prefer dancing with guys who are a similar height or taller). Doesn't stop me from asking the "other" one later though and if the better looking guy turns out to be a rubbish dancer then I remind myself that it serves me right for being shallow :rolleyes:

jivecat
19th-June-2006, 10:20 AM
......fat, bald and ugly...... I often find fat, bald and ugly men extremely sexy, and I suspect I'm not alone in this...



In the hypothetical situation of having to choose a dance partner from between Mr Handsome and Mr Homely, in practice there are so many other, almost subliminal, factors at work that I would be hard put to say how much I was influenced by sheer looks. e.g.

What he's wearing
Does he look like he could dance well?
My favourite track's just come on and I have to grab someone quick, he's the nearest
Does he look like he would welcome an invite from me?
How old is he?
Does he look friendly/approachable?
Is there any eye contact?
Posture/bearing

I would be more consciously aware of using factors like these when doing a random pick than of the guy's looks. Many of the judgements I make are just as superficial, though!

If anything, I would avoid picking someone who was obviously very good-looking as I would find it intimidating and I might assume, rightly or wrongly, that they could be a bit arrogant. Also that, having more than their fair share of female attention, that they would not value getting any from me, particularly. So maybe I am conscious of looks, but negatively so.

Lory
19th-June-2006, 10:32 AM
I often find fat, bald and ugly men extremely sexy, and I suspect I'm not alone in this...

People who dance in time, considerately and passionately and possess the power to make you feel 'special' on the dance floor, can suddenly be transformed from a 'fat bald and ugly' person, to something quite the opposite :yum: and visa versa, a good looking person, who's rhythm-less and rough or makes you feel like they're doing you a favour :rolleyes: can turn extremely ugly :sick:

ducasi
19th-June-2006, 11:13 AM
I often find fat, bald and ugly men extremely sexy, and I suspect I'm not alone in this... Good news for a lot of men! :D


In the hypothetical situation of having to choose a dance partner from between Mr Handsome and Mr Homely, in practice there are so many other, almost subliminal, factors at work that I would be hard put to say how much I was influenced by sheer looks. e.g.

What he's wearing
Does he look like he could dance well?
My favourite track's just come on and I have to grab someone quick, he's the nearest
Does he look like he would welcome an invite from me?
How old is he?
Does he look friendly/approachable?
Is there any eye contact?
Posture/bearing

I would be more consciously aware of using factors like these when doing a random pick than of the guy's looks. Many of the judgements I make are just as superficial, though! Indeed, these are the sorts of judgements we all make... I think though that the ones I've made bold are related to how attractive we find someone.


Does he look like he could dance well? I'm curious how you judge this. One or two people (especially Wendy ;)) have made the point on the dance partner (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8733) thread that it's very difficult, if not impossible to tell how good a dancer someone is just by looking at them.


If anything, I would avoid picking someone who was obviously very good-looking as I would find it intimidating and I might assume, rightly or wrongly, that they could be a bit arrogant. Also that, having more than their fair share of female attention, that they would not value getting any from me, particularly. So maybe I am conscious of looks, but negatively so. I used to be like that... But then I figured that it's only one dance, and that even if they didn't get "value" from it, I might enjoy it...

Experience has told me that they were very rarely arrogant, they usually did enjoy the dance and that they were grateful to be asked. (Apparently some especially good-looking and/or simply good dancers don't get asked as much because folks are intimidated by them. ;))

frodo
19th-June-2006, 11:28 AM
All other things being equal (i.e. if I have no idea of the likely quality of the dance) then I freely admit that I go for looks (height being the big decider for me - being tall, I prefer dancing with guys who are a similar height or taller). Doesn't stop me from asking the "other" one later though and if the better looking guy turns out to be a rubbish dancer then I remind myself that it serves me right for being shallow :rolleyes:

Depending on why selected (for example if you're both likely to have a better dance with a more compatible height), I wouldn't classify the height part as looks.

jivecat
19th-June-2006, 11:51 AM
Indeed, these are the sorts of judgements we all make... I think though that the ones I've made bold are related to how attractive we find someone.
Yes, but how someone dresses, or how they choose to present themselves personally is a factor under their own control, there is an element of self-definition and expression, it does not depend on the luck of genetics. To be judged purely on their physical features is demeaning, however. Age is, of course, a factor beyond personal control, but I included that because I'm reluctant to ask very young guys to dance unless I have reasons to suppose that they won't object to dancing with their grandma.




I'm curious how you judge this. One or two people (especially Wendy ;)) have made the point on the dance partner (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8733) thread that it's very difficult, if not impossible to tell how good a dancer someone is just by looking at them.
I CAN'T judge this. I only make a prejudiced, shallow and largely erroneous snap judgement based on, presumably, various half-remembered previous experiences. For example, once long ago, I had a great dance with a Man in Black. So now, I still have a predilection for MIBs, even though my prejudice has been proved unfounded on many occasions. (Must have been a hell of a good dance, that first one.) It makes about as much sense as seeking out baggy-trousered ones after a dance with Trampy.


I used to be like that... But then I figured that it's only one dance, and that even if they didn't get "value" from it, I might enjoy it...I won't enjoy it if I get any sense that they don't see me as a worthy partner. Men who judge women primarily on looks sometimes don't, and don't bother trying to hide it. Such partners withhold any worthwhile connection, (As I am also guilty of doing on occasion, so I'm certainly not blameless) so the dance would be as good as ruined even if it was technically OK.


Experience has told me that they were very rarely arrogant, they usually did enjoy the dance and that they were grateful to be asked. (Apparently some especially good-looking and/or simply good dancers don't get asked as much because folks are intimidated by them. ;))

I didn't say that they WERE arrogant, I just said that my own prejudices might lead me to imagine that they might be. And of course, some good-looking people might actually be so.

Wendy
19th-June-2006, 12:02 PM
Dancing is, by its very nature, a physically interractive past-time, involving being more close to someone else than we usually would be [unless we're on a packed tube during rush hour - which is completely impersonal].

Call me sceptical or cynical, but for someone to say that the appearance of who they dance with is entirely immaterial, is, I believe disingenuous [ ... and may indeed be self-deceptive; an ability that we are all masters of].

I, for one, will unashamedly honest in saying that my choice of asking for a dance is affected by how physically attractive I find the girl. It is also affected by the enjoyment of previous dances I might have had, and if I've noticed that they have not danced for a few tracks.

I'll not, however, refuse a dance unless I really want to take a break. [But even then, I'll not refuse someone I find drop dead gorgeous].

If this makes me a nasty person, then a nasty person I am!!!

!an I appreciate your honesty. :flower:

If we all had 10 minutes to live the most attractive people would jump on the most attractive people and the less attractive on the less attractive and so on down the attractivness line until the least attractive people met their match at the bottom. That is human nature (Robert Winston - that experiment on the ice rink).

Luckily a man needs several women at a dance night - not just the one he would choose to mate with if it was the end of the world. (Some do only dance with their own partner almost all the time and live in a little protective bubble and I can only assume they think dancing IS sex and so don't want to share their eggs/sperm with anyone else.) So everyone gets to dance with everyone. :D

At big events, however, where there are less partners than dance hours, people are more likely to prioritise. I will try to get a dance with the best men I can (and this isn't on a physical appearance scale but on a competence scale - cos that's what girls do I believe). Why would you go on a weekender to repeat the experience of being a taxi dancer which is something you can do for free several times a week ? The fact that I cannot tell whether a man is a good dancer until I have danced with him or, perhaps, watched the smile on another woman's face whilst dancing with him, means I will ask the bloke standing next to me at any given time. Appearance is of little concern - unless he looks p*ssed - that's about the only nono. (And I won' ask people I know who I really dislike dancing because they hurt me or I just think are creeps)

As MJ is a male-led dance, the level of enjoyment for the lady IMO, is based on his dance prowess. (Even dancing with Brad Pitt could be rubbish if he couldn't dance in time :sick: )

Men however are more likely to choose a partner based on her appearance as HER level of competence matters less in the scheme of things. (Angelina Jolie could have the same cr*p timing as Brad Pitt but that wouldn't matter as she wouldn't be leading. She'd have a great time cos she'd dance better than she ever thought she could and he'd have a great time convincing her.)

So the answer for the fat ugly men is to become a great dancer and no-one will care what you look like and for the fat ugly women ? They should avoid massive events unless they are prepared to do a lot of asking cos they are less likely to get asked (by people they don't already know) or else stay up really really late and get some fabby dancers all to themselves cos most of the pretty girls are off getting their beauty sleep. It works for me :wink:

Wx

robd
19th-June-2006, 12:24 PM
I'm tempted to ask if there are any 'fat' Ceroc teachers but suspect there'd be no response.

On a different tack, reading this (interesting) thread made me think of the (suprisingly to me) high number of ladies who have told me they've lost a significant amount of weight since they began dancing.

Robert

Cruella
19th-June-2006, 01:13 PM
I'm tempted to ask if there are any 'fat' Ceroc teachers but suspect there'd be no response.

On a different tack, reading this (interesting) thread made me think of the (suprisingly to me) high number of ladies who have told me they've lost a significant amount of weight since they began dancing.

Robert
I know of a couple of 'larger than the average' Ceroc teachers. They are still young and good looking though!
Some ladies have lost weight because of the exercise had whilst dancing. I suspect though, that there are also a fair few who have lost the weight through other methods. I also suspect the dancing as a catalyst to them wanting to be more attractive to the males doing the asking. :devil:

fletch
19th-June-2006, 03:09 PM
I also suspect the dancing as a catalyst to them wanting to be more attractive to the males doing the asking. :devil:

This is very true for me.


when I started dancing 2 years ago, I had already lost 1st 7lb and a good size 16

It was lovely to have an excuse to get dressed up and fantastic when a guy gave you a complement, it really spurs you on.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Cruella
19th-June-2006, 04:06 PM
By the way Rob D, give me my puppy back! He's hiding in your avatar!!

Minnie M
19th-June-2006, 06:07 PM
see my post here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=243395&postcount=144) and check the following one (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=243399&postcount=145) too

BTW Cruella, what have you been feeding your pups on :whistle:

Cruella
19th-June-2006, 06:13 PM
BTW Cruella, what have you been feeding your pups on :whistle:
Milk!

Seahorse
19th-June-2006, 06:16 PM
People who dance in time, considerately and passionately and possess the power to make you feel 'special' on the dance floor, can suddenly be transformed from a 'fat bald and ugly' person, to something quite the opposite :yum:

Reassuring!

RogerR
19th-June-2006, 07:02 PM
Once was told at Jive Bar "I don't dance with old people!"

Daisy Chain
19th-June-2006, 07:14 PM
.... dancing IS sex and so don't want to share their eggs/sperm with anyone else.)

OMG! So it's not just sweat that my hot dance partners have been dripping on me all these years :eek:

Daisy

(A Fertilised Little FLower)

Daisy Chain
19th-June-2006, 07:17 PM
Once was told at Jive Bar "I don't dance with old people!"

I always find that old men are more grateful.

Daisy

(A Middle Aged Little Flower)

David Bailey
19th-June-2006, 07:20 PM
All other things being equal (i.e. if I have no idea of the likely quality of the dance) then I freely admit that I go for looks
Which is almost exactly what a few guys have said - but we're being treated like pariahs for it :(

For example, if it were a choice between dancing with Jivecat and an 18-year-old supertanned blonde bimbo type, of unknown ability, I'd choose Jivecat; we had one of my top 10 dances of Southport on the Friday evening.

Not that Jivecat's not gorgeous, of course - I know, lend me that JCB now... :blush:

And I'm not at all influenced in my description by:

I often find fat, bald and ugly men extremely sexy,
Wa-hey!!

Gadget
19th-June-2006, 07:27 PM
...
How old is he?
...

Not sizeist, but ageist :rolleyes:
Why is it OK to discriminate on age, but not on size/shape?

FWIW, on DJ's description I would go with the bimbo - why? because I already know how Jivecat dances and I don't know how they dance yet.

Graham
19th-June-2006, 08:03 PM
FWIW, on DJ's description I would go with the bimbo - why? because I already know how Jivecat dances and I don't know how they dance yet.
And, indeed, vice versa....... :devil:

Wendy
20th-June-2006, 12:34 AM
There is a difference I think between the less attractive people we know and the less attractive we don't. Clearly if you know someone already you no longer judge them on appearance only.

A less attractive person on first sight could become one of your "targets" because you always have a lovely dance with them or simply get on well with them. On the other hand if you know someone to be a creep (/female equivalent) in the non-dance world then you'd be less likely to want to get up close and personal in Danceland even if they were gorgeous physically or the even the world's best dancer. Maybe this is a female view ?

Wx

Wendy
20th-June-2006, 12:43 AM
OMG! So it's not just sweat that my hot dance partners have been dripping on me all these years :eek:

Daisy

(A Fertilised Little FLower) Daisy Daisy - horrendous :rofl:
or maybe you are simply one of the lucky ones :confused:
Have this ridiculous image in my head of girls dancing around in giant condoms now. Right no more weird arty French films for me !

Wx

ducasi
20th-June-2006, 08:23 AM
... if you know someone to be a creep (/female equivalent) in the non-dance world then you'd be less likely to want to get up close and personal in Danceland even if they were gorgeous physically or the even the world's best dancer. Maybe this is a female view ? As soon as I find a creepy female who is either gorgeous or the world's best dancer, I'll let you know what my male view is... :)

Beowulf
20th-June-2006, 08:31 AM
Not so much the case
"Will I dance with Fat/old/ugly/coloured/bald/sweaty/alien/etc people ?"

I think the real question is

"Will Fat/old/ugly/coloured/bald/sweaty/alien/etc people Dance with me?"

I'm an Equal opportunities newbie :)

LMC
20th-June-2006, 09:16 AM
Which is almost exactly what a few guys have said - but we're being treated like pariahs for it :(
I noticed :mad: - women can be shallow too.

But given the chance between dancing with Mr Tall Dark & Handsome-but-completely-unknown and .... ooooooh... (lend me your JCB DJ) :devil: .....DavidJames, I'd race across the floor for DJ but then probably end up having to ask Mr TD&H because DJ always seems to have a queue :tears:

I'll dance with anyone who asks - but when I'm "looking", I'll go for the guys I think I'll be most comfortable dancing with - who will probably be of a similar height or taller, just 'cos it's physically easier. Age/appearance/colour/planet of origin otherwise unimportant.

If we're talking about *completely* unknown dancers, there must be *something* that makes you choose one dancer over another - and if ability is not easy to tell by watching, then it surely has to be some aspect of their appearance that prioritises your choice (even if it's just the least sweaty one!)

Twirly
20th-June-2006, 09:59 AM
Which is almost exactly what a few guys have said - but we're being treated like pariahs for it :(

Only because those who perceive themselves as being less "attractive" according to the usual stereotypes (young/slim/blonde) are concerned that they won't get any/as many dances! It does seem from these discussions that men at least partially chose their prospective dance partners according to the usual "rules" of sexual attraction - how come I'm not surprised?

Fortunately, most forumites at least seem willing and able to get past this - thank goodness for those of us who don't fit the stereotype :wink:

From experience, dancers at everyday Ceroc evenings seem to get past these as well, although I've at times wondered if my being slightly overweight has reduced the number of dances I've got. But then again, my friend who goes with me (non-forumite) who is very slim, quite pretty and used to be blonde usually gets asked less than me - because she gets shy and looks at the floor all the time! Whereas I'm there, smiling at everyone and doing the eye contact thing (note to self - must stop doing this when I leave Ceroc venue - have started to get some very strange looks at at bus stops on the way home :blush: )

And what about the men who do find larger/not skinny women attractive? And might pick them as a dance partner over the slimmer woman? I think that women are inclined to forget that what we see as "fat", sometimes men don't - and I've heard many times that men overrate their physical attractiveness whereas women underrate theirs.

Right, uhm, climbing off soap box now... :whistle:

LMC
20th-June-2006, 10:15 AM
Only because those who perceive themselves as being less "attractive" according to the usual stereotypes (young/slim/blonde) are concerned that they won't get any/as many dances!
From people we don't know or who haven't seen us dance, we are usually not the first choice if there is someone younger and slimmer nearby. I know that I have to make more effort than the younger slimmer girls to get dances - i.e. actually go and ask people rather than waiting to be asked.

I know, because I have experienced it any number of times. I am not young or slim (although I am blonde). The payoff is that from discussions I've had with younger, slimmer friends, us non-stereotypes don't tend to suffer as much from sleaziness (hooray!) - well, I don't - and we can be more sure that someone has asked us because they actually want to dance with us, not chat us up.

None of this applies with people who know us/have danced with us. It also doesn't apply with most forumites - but in the Ceroc/MJ world, we are in the minority in acting as 'equal opportunities' as we do. It's the way it is. It doesn't stop me having a good night's dancing, even at a venue where I am entirely unknown, and as Ceroc is primarily marketed as a social activity, it goes with the territory :shrug:


It does seem from these discussions that men at least partially chose their prospective dance partners according to the usual "rules" of sexual attraction - how come I'm not surprised?
If you have no idea of the quality of dance you're going to get, then you have to pick somehow. If you don't pick according to appearance, and there are two guys waiting for a dance and you haven't ever danced with either of them how do you choose?

El Salsero Gringo
20th-June-2006, 10:18 AM
It does seem from these discussions that men at least partially chose their prospective dance partners according to the usual "rules" of sexual attraction - how come I'm not surprised?

{snip}

Fortunately, most forumites at least seem willing and able to get past this

{snip}

From experience, dancers at everyday Ceroc evenings seem to get past these as well,

{snip}

But then again, my friend who goes with me (non-forumite) who is very slim, quite pretty and used to be blonde usually gets asked less than me

{snip}

And what about the men who do find larger/not skinny women attractive?

{snip} And might pick them as a dance partner over the slimmer woman?It's very hard to tell whether you think this is a problem or not, you seem to be riding hard on both points of view!

I'm less likely to dance with the attractive woman - all else being equal. I find physical attraction gets in the way of a good dance.

LMC
20th-June-2006, 10:26 AM
I'm less likely to dance with the attractive woman - all else being equal. I find physical attraction gets in the way of a good dance.
Not being personal here, this is just a great example - in this case ESG is still making a judgement on appearance (although I strongly suspect in the minority "direction" - hey, it works for me :wink: ).

QED

El Salsero Gringo
20th-June-2006, 10:42 AM
QEDRemind me ... what was the Q that was being D'd?

LMC
20th-June-2006, 10:53 AM
Yeah yeah, this thread has gone off topic... The divergence appears to have raised the question

Do you judge by physical attraction/appearance when deciding who to ask for a dance?

Graham
20th-June-2006, 10:59 AM
We are biologically programmed to judge by physical appearance. Whilst we may choose to override our instincts, they are nevertheless unalterably present.

Twirly
20th-June-2006, 11:08 AM
It's very hard to tell whether you think this is a problem or not, you seem to be riding hard on both points of view!

I'm less likely to dance with the attractive woman - all else being equal. I find physical attraction gets in the way of a good dance.

What I'm trying to say is that I think it's a fact of life that men (and women) judge others on physical attractiveness. So when you go to a venue and don't know others/aren't known, it might come into play as to whether you get asked/who you chose to ask. This is subconscious to some extent, and even the individual who is aware can only do so much to overcome it. Having said that, you can be fresh blood at a new venue and get asked to dance purely because of that! :na:

Since there is little that can be done about it (other than raise awareness, which is why I think that a thread like this, whilst some see it as divisive, can be a good thing), I don't see any point in getting upset about it. I can change my own thoughts/prejudices, but I cannot change those of others. That's probably why you think that I'm ambivalent.

What I was also trying to question was the why the young/slim/blonde stereotype is assumed to be the only type of woman that men find attractive. We come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, and fortunately we find all sorts of shapes and sizes attractive. Either in terms of looking for a partner, or looking for someone to dance with.


Yeah yeah, this thread has gone off topic... The divergence appears to have raised the question

Do you judge by physical attraction/appearance when deciding who to ask for a dance?

Since weight is one aspect of physical attractiveness, I’m not surprised that this thread has broadened out – it might be a bit of a tangent, but related, so is does it matter that it’s deviated a bit?

Hmm, think I've blown my lurker/occasional poster status this morning!:D

Daisy Chain
20th-June-2006, 12:20 PM
If you have no idea of the quality of dance you're going to get, then you have to pick somehow. If you don't pick according to appearance, and there are two guys waiting for a dance and you haven't ever danced with either of them how [B]do you choose?

The one who looks as though he has the most money :blush:

Daisy

(A Shallow Little Flower)

Wendy
20th-June-2006, 12:57 PM
The one who looks as though he has the most money :blush:

Daisy

(A Shallow Little Flower)

So it's the shoes thing again. :rofl:

In fact I probably wouldn't choose the black and white shoe boy if the other had plain shoes. Not cos I'm being superficial but cos the 2 tone boy might be a boogie person and I'm not, or be really good and possibly turn me down or else think he was really good :sick: and be up his own bits. I'd never turn a 2 tone boy down though :flower: So please don't come back at me for being Shoe-ist !!!

Wx

Cruella
20th-June-2006, 12:59 PM
It's very hard to tell whether you think this is a problem or not, you seem to be riding hard on both points of view!

I'm less likely to dance with the attractive woman - all else being equal. I find physical attraction gets in the way of a good dance.
You've probably just offended any woman that you ask to dance! :rolleyes:

Wendy
20th-June-2006, 01:03 PM
Do you judge by physical attraction/appearance when deciding who to ask for a dance? See shoe story above. Good question. I'd probably see which one made eye contact first.. or maybe chap to them first... or ask "which one wants me first and I'll be back for the other one later" :waycool:

Depends on my mood, whether I was in taxi-mode or not. One might refuse anyway so I'd maybe ask the other one or else run off and ask one of my BTC team to make up for the embarassment of the refusal. Oh we are good at being complicated aren't we ? :D

Wx

El Salsero Gringo
20th-June-2006, 01:11 PM
You've probably just offended any woman that you ask to dance! :rolleyes:But the ones that I've never asked to dance can feel better about it.

SteveK
20th-June-2006, 01:16 PM
So it's the shoes thing again.

In fact I probably wouldn't choose the black and white shoe boy if the other had plain shoes. Not cos I'm being superficial but cos the 2 tone boy might be a boogie person and I'm not, or be really good and possibly turn me down or else think he was really good :sick: and be up his own bits. I'd never turn a 2 tone boy down though :flower: So please don't come back at me for being Shoe-ist !!!

Wx

So what shoes should I wear to get the most dances??
Dance trainers - indicates that I'm unlikely to be a complete beginner;
Plain leather work shoes - shows I've got perhaps an office job?
Or should I wear a different type of shoes?

Should there be a poll on "Do you dance with men wearing black vests?" I don't own any black T-shirts or shirts - are these actually necessary to be taken seriously as a male dancer??

Wendy
20th-June-2006, 01:16 PM
You've probably just offended any woman that you ask to dance! :rolleyes: :rofl: Poor ESG

Now do good looking guys go for goodlooking girls or are they too concerned that the girl will think it's a chat up thing and not a dance thing and therefore not ask ? Is it the less attractive males who ask the gorgeous girls cos they know the girl couldn't possibly think it was a chat up thing ??? So in fact do the gorgeous girls get the ugly blokes who are likely to be better dancers cos they have learned they can't depend on looks in the non-dance world ?? Then the gorgeous girls become better dancers and then everyone is too scared to ask them to dance ??? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: But :flower: too cos I know some beautiful greta girl dances who don't get asked.

The winners are : beautiful beginner women and ugly fab dancer blokes

No we are all winners at mj but only cos we need loads of partners in one night. It is almost equal ops in action. Just a few people who ruin that by turning people down "illegally" (and I think that has been covered in other threads). I asked a guy (at Southport) who was boogieing away on his own at the side of the dancefloor for a dance and he turned me down. I think that's pretty cr*p.

Wx

Twirly
20th-June-2006, 01:19 PM
I asked a guy (at Southport) who was boogieing away on his own at the side of the dancefloor for a dance and he turned me down. I think that's pretty cr*p.

Wendy - is that the dance equivalent of masturbation?! :rofl:

El Salsero Gringo
20th-June-2006, 01:25 PM
Now do good looking guys go for goodlooking girls or are they too concerned that the girl will think it's a chat up thing and not a dance thing and therefore not ask ? Is it the less attractive males who ask the gorgeous girls cos they know the girl couldn't possibly think it was a chat up thing ??? So in fact do the gorgeous girls get the ugly blokes who are likely to be better dancers cos they have learned they can't depend on looks in the non-dance world ?? Then the gorgeous girls become better dancers and then everyone is too scared to ask them to dance ???Can we have a BFG award for the most overanalytical paragraph please? :flower:

Wendy
20th-June-2006, 01:32 PM
Wendy - is that the dance equivalent of masturbation?! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Guess it is !!!! And I should know better than to interrupt !

I have to tell you that as a teenager I used to dance on my own facing into the corner of my wee wee Parisian dance club. This guy (who I knew but hadn't seen for ages) tapped me on the shoulder and I nearly bit his head off. It was a very VERY good track - Santana probably. My defense is that everyone danced on their own. MJ is a partner dance.

Wx

Wendy
20th-June-2006, 01:33 PM
Can we have a BFG award for the most overanalytical paragraph please? :flower:

Why thank you ESG. I knew I'd find my path eventually :D

Wx

Dreadful Scathe
20th-June-2006, 02:01 PM
From people we don't know or who haven't seen us dance, we are usually not the first choice if there is someone younger and slimmer nearby.

Personally when looking for a dance in a room of unknowns I go for someone Ive just seen dancing that looks like they can or failing that someone with lots of "checklist ticks" i.e. Wearing dance shoes, dressed for lots of dancing (no cardigans), smiling, near the edge of the dance floor looking interested....weight is on the list somewhere but very low down this list, and on its own would not affect my decision to request a dance - thats the point though, we never consider other people by one thing alone (unless we are total bigots I suppose, and I dont know any of them).



None of this applies with people who know us/have danced with us. It also doesn't apply with most forumites - but in the Ceroc/MJ world, we are in the minority in acting as 'equal opportunities' as we do.

Most forumites are indeed in it "for the dance" and I'd agree thats possibly not a majority motivation - some people only dance with friends, some people only dance with people far more attractive than themselves ;) but who is to say that any motivation is "wrong" - we would be as bad as them to criticise the motivations we dont like.

Wendy
20th-June-2006, 02:52 PM
So what shoes should I wear to get the most dances??
Dance trainers - indicates that I'm unlikely to be a complete beginner;
Plain leather work shoes - shows I've got perhaps an office job?
Or should I wear a different type of shoes?

Should there be a poll on "Do you dance with men wearing black vests?" I don't own any black T-shirts or shirts - are these actually necessary to be taken seriously as a male dancer??

It is commonly known (I thought) that "you judge a man by his shoes" I was being funny but yeah the 2tone thing has put me off in the past. As I said I would dance if asked by anyone apart from someone who looked p*ssed as that could be dangerous.

I danced with someone at Southport (sorry but it's the only place I've danced in the uk recently) who was pretty drunk (early Monday morning). I was miserable and he was hurting me by yanking my arm all over the place. I tried to explain that he didn't need to yank me to make me turn/return but with no successs. I would have ended the dance but was too afraid of looking "exclusive". Next time I'll end it. I'm not prepared to put up with that. In fact the next person who hurts me will know about it whether they are p*ssed or not.

Wx

Dreadful Scathe
20th-June-2006, 02:55 PM
I danced with someone at Southport (sorry but it's the only place I've danced in the uk recently) who was pretty drunk (early Monday morning). I was miserable and he was hurting me by yanking my arm all over the place. I treid to explain that he didn't need to yank me to make me turn/return but with no successs.

Well, Graham has been used to all the cheap French wine and cant handle a proper drink - arent you being a little hard on him ? :)

Wendy
20th-June-2006, 03:00 PM
Most forumites are indeed in it "for the dance" and I'd agree thats possibly not a majority motivation - some people only dance with friends, some people only dance with people far more attractive than themselves ;) but who is to say that any motivation is "wrong" - we would be as bad as them to criticise the motivations we dont like. Absolutely. And isn't it good to know how the system really works? The ones at the top of the food chain don't have to. Those lower down need strategies to survive/get a dance. Don't think I'll be giving away any more secrets for a while and I have a stack of them :waycool: :tears: :waycool: :tears: :confused:

Wx

Lory
20th-June-2006, 03:38 PM
a guy (at Southport) who was boogieing away on his own at the side of the dancefloor

Wendy - is that the dance equivalent of masturbation?! :rofl:
I've actually witnessed Fletch openly doing this in the MIDDLE of the dancefloor :really:

:rofl:

Tessalicious
20th-June-2006, 03:48 PM
I saw a girl at Southport (no it wasn't fletch) dancing on her own in the bar section of the Blues room - isn't it funny how weird it looks in a roomful of MJers when anywhere else where there was music it would be perfectly normal?

MartinHarper
20th-June-2006, 04:09 PM
The one who looks as though he has the most money :blush:

So, what - you check out the bulge in his pocket?

Twirly
20th-June-2006, 04:42 PM
So, what - you check out the bulge in his pocket?

And presumably if he's been dancing on his own - large bulge + solo dancing = likes keeping it all to himself? :devil:

stewart38
20th-June-2006, 04:53 PM
I dance with anyone with the exception of The Corpse, got caught once, never again:eek:

Why not I hear he is not about dancer ? just ‘cold’

fletch
20th-June-2006, 05:06 PM
I saw a girl at Southport (no it wasn't fletch) dancing on her own in the bar section of the Blues room - isn't it funny how weird it looks in a roomful of MJers when anywhere else where there was music it would be perfectly normal?

I'm always telling people i'm just normal :na:

I have spent all of my adult life dancing around my handbag, and when a tune comes on I like I can't resist, its surprising just how many other people join in, at Southport I had several girls join me.:respect:

I dance with the 'corpse' I ask him now there is a good photo of me at KevF birthday bash.:flower:

Gojive
20th-June-2006, 05:06 PM
Wendy - is that the dance equivalent of masturbation?! :rofl:

That reminds me - not long 'til Strictly Come Dancing is back! :waycool:

Wendy
21st-June-2006, 09:55 AM
I have spent all of my adult life dancing around my handbag, and when a tune comes on I like I can't resist, its surprising just how many other people join in, at Southport I had several girls join me.:respect:

I think that is great ! Go girl !!!! Next time I see you I'll join in too. That so reminds me of the old days :rofl:

At MJ events I do prefer dancing with a man though and only wiggle about on my own cos there's no-one to join in with me.

Wx

jivecat
21st-June-2006, 10:16 AM
OMG! So it's not just sweat that my hot dance partners have been dripping on me all these years :eek:

Daisy

(A Fertilised Little FLower)


Aargh!! or uurghh! depending on your point of view, I suppose.

jivecat
21st-June-2006, 10:20 AM
Not sizeist, but ageist :rolleyes:
Why is it OK to discriminate on age, but not on size/shape?



I only do it out of consideration for the smooth, unblemished young things.

Rachel
21st-June-2006, 11:26 AM
Ok, I confess I haven't read the entire thread yet, so apologies if I'm missing the point. But many of the posts seem a little hypothetical, as if there's a roomful of people just waiting for us to make our choice from amongst them. In reality, I think it rarely works this way, whatever our personal preferences are for size/shape/age/ability/attractiveness of dance partner.

I honestly never consider any of the above when looking for a dance. I don't think many of us do. You can never tell someone's dance ability by age or size and, even then, I'm not too bothered about their ability (unless they're particularly violent), as it's nice to dance with beginners as well as more experienced people. I think it's part of the excitement to ask someone you have never seen dance, as you never know what you're going to get.

My criteria, when looking for the next dance comes down, almost exclusively, to availability and approachability. In a situation where there are a few men around who I could ask, I may target one if I knew them well or had promised them a dance earlier. I may exclude another if I knew them to be particularly rough or unpleasant to dance with. And I'd never ask someone if I'd seen them doing lots of drops. After that, I'd just go for the nearest man to me, or one who'd made eye contact, as long as they look approachable and willing to dance (ie not engrossed in conversation, looking for a drink/towel, etc).

However, I will try and target people if there is a particular style of song playing, or an especial favourite – those who love tango music and will dance it with a closed hold, those who I know love fast music, or swing, etc. The right people being around at the right time, though, is not something that happens often.

And, no matter how much I love dancing with any particular person, I will never queue for them, and would sooner be dancing with anyone else than sat around waiting for them to be free. The only person I would (and frequently do) queue for is Marc.

Rachel x

Wendy
21st-June-2006, 11:44 AM
Ok, I confess I haven't read the entire thread yet, so apologies if I'm missing the point. But many of the posts seem a little hypothetical, as if there's a roomful of people just waiting for us to make our choice from amongst them. In reality, I think it rarely works this way, whatever our personal preferences are for size/shape/age/ability/attractiveness of dance partner.

I honestly never consider any of the above when looking for a dance. I don't think many of us do. You can never tell someone's dance ability by age or size and, even then, I'm not too bothered about their ability (unless they're particularly violent), as it's nice to dance with beginners as well as more experienced people. I think it's part of the excitement to ask someone you have never seen dance, as you never know what you're going to get.

My criteria, when looking for the next dance comes down, almost exclusively, to availability and approachability. In a situation where there are a few men around who I could ask, I may target one if I knew them well or had promised them a dance earlier. I may exclude another if I knew them to be particularly rough or unpleasant to dance with. And I'd never ask someone if I'd seen them doing lots of drops. After that, I'd just go for the nearest man to me, or one who'd made eye contact, as long as they look approachable and willing to dance (ie not engrossed in conversation, looking for a drink/towel, etc).

However, I will try and target people if there is a particular style of song playing, or an especial favourite – those who love tango music and will dance it with a closed hold, those who I know love fast music, or swing, etc. The right people being around at the right time, though, is not something that happens often.

And, no matter how much I love dancing with any particular person, I will never queue for them, and would sooner be dancing with anyone else than sat around waiting for them to be free. The only person I would (and frequently do) queue for is Marc.

Rachel x

Rachel, you are just magic ! :love:
And thanks for not hogging Marc.:clap: :clap: :clap:

Wx

Rachel
21st-June-2006, 12:03 PM
...And thanks for not hogging Marc.:clap: :clap: :clap: WxAs if I could!! I'd be lynched ... :eek: Besides, he'd get bored if he had to dance with me all night. I am pretty fervent about getting the last dance with him, though - any girl who nabs him when the last song has just been announced will not exactly go down in my little book of favourites ... :tears:
R. x

Wendy
21st-June-2006, 12:08 PM
any girl who nabs him when the last song has just been announced will not exactly go down in my little book of favourites ... :tears:
R. x wouldn't dare ! :flower:

Wx

Daisy Chain
21st-June-2006, 12:11 PM
It is commonly known (I thought) that "you judge a man by his shoes" I was being funny but yeah the 2tone thing has put me off in the past.



In my experience, dancers in black and white shoes are either very good ..........or they think they are very good.

But you can't always tell by watching them where they should be pigeon-holed. It's useful to road-test one of these shoe wearers during the lesson, then you can make your decision (ie whether to run towards or away from this particular pair of shoes during the freestyle).

Daisy

(A Totally Black-Shoed Little Flower)

Wendy
21st-June-2006, 12:18 PM
In my experience, dancers in black and white shoes are either very good ..........or they think they are very good. And thinking you are very good when you are is fine :wink:

Wx

Daisy Chain
21st-June-2006, 12:27 PM
And thinking you are very good when you are is fine :wink:

Wx

Naturally, I myself am excellent :whistle:

Daisy

Magic Hans
30th-June-2006, 12:36 AM
Thought I'd quickly resurrect this for a wee moment!! [not that I'd ever be provocative at all .... oh no .... never ever ever in my life!!! .... leave that up to Smurf Man!!!!]

I've been considering this a little more. Funny thing about attraction (which clearly by definition must involve more than one bod.... errrrr ... I mean object!). It's fairly dynamic and not wonderfully predictable IMHO.

I really really really like dancing with someone who interracts with me, has fun, listens to the music, and plays. ... oh, and it really helps if they like dancing with me.

Sometimes my attraction to someone will increase, because they are fun to dance with (irrespective of their physical appearance). On the other hand, there are some slim and physically pretty girls, with whom me dancing with them is just flat and unexciting. Here my attraction to them will inevitably fall.

As for fancying dance partners, I generally don't go in much for that, especially if they're very good looking, cos I'm clearly out of their league.

However, I do remember dancing with one very pretty young girl a couple of times. Then, a few weeks later, we danced, then at the end of the track, she fairly insistently kept hold of my hand, and pulled me further onto the dance floor. It was only at that point that I really did fancy her!!!! [... then found out that she had a bloke!! :tears: ... oh the complexities of relationship!]
[rant ends!]

Wendy
4th-July-2006, 12:15 AM
I really really really like dancing with someone who interracts with me, has fun, listens to the music, and plays. ... oh, and it really helps if they like dancing with me.

Sometimes my attraction to someone will increase, because they are fun to dance with (irrespective of their physical appearance). I think you have just experienced being a girl !!!! :rofl:




However, I do remember dancing with one very pretty young girl a couple of times. Then, a few weeks later, we danced, then at the end of the track, she fairly insistently kept hold of my hand, and pulled me further onto the dance floor. It was only at that point that I really did fancy her!!!! [... then found out that she had a bloke!! :tears: ... oh the complexities of relationship!]
[rant ends!]

:hug: :kiss: :hug:

Wx

Blueshoes
7th-October-2006, 12:41 AM
I never dance with fat people. They all look slim to me. :)

David Bailey
9th-October-2006, 10:06 AM
I never dance with fat people. They all look slim to me. :)
Excellent point - I've just re-cast my vote (OK, I wanted to try out the new "withdraw vote" feature :) )

Thinking about it, I can't ever recall dancing with someone and thinking "Blimey, she's fat". Not once.

Now, maybe that's because there are no fat people in MJ, or maybe because I'm subconsciously choosing not to dance with fat people - or maybe I just don't notice / remember.

Probably the latter, given my fabled powers of observation and memory.

Sunshine_Annie
9th-October-2006, 10:11 AM
I never dance with fat people. They all look slim to me. :)

what a lovely comment :clap: :clap:

I do hope you mean it cus in my years of dancing I've spotted loads of people that will only dance with the skinny totts.... it can get really depressing if you let it..... (says the curvy lady in the corner who gave up waiting to be asked years ago)......

it does make for much more fun if your partner plays back, and isnt all serious about the moves :clap: :clap:

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 10:12 AM
There are definately men who feel intimidated by the larger curvier dancers for some reason. I am one of these dancers, im not gigantic but i am curvy. Something that i get told very often is " you are so light on your feet, what a fantastic dancer" - whilst this is very nice for somebody to say that, it says to me that first impressions do count. They expect a heavier dancer to be a nightmare to dance with so regardless of this poll,, heavier dancers are avoided but generally by the weaker dancers.

Twirly
9th-October-2006, 10:30 AM
They expect a heavier dancer to be a nightmare to dance with so regardless of this poll,, heavier dancers are avoided but generally by the weaker dancers.

Either that or you get hauled about the dance floor like you’re a tank!

I’ve been told when I’ve asked some guys who use what appears to me to be a light lead on me what I’m like to lead, and have always been told that I’m easy to lead. Yet I’ve danced with a few people who seem to think that size + speed of track = must use extra heavy lead to get me where they want me. :angry: It ain't necessary!

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 10:34 AM
Either that or you get hauled about the dance floor like you’re a tank!

size + speed of track = must use extra heavy lead to get me where they want me. :angry: It ain't necessary!


exactly....:yeah:

David Bailey
9th-October-2006, 10:44 AM
I do hope you mean it cus in my years of dancing I've spotted loads of people that will only dance with the skinny totts.... it can get really depressing if you let it..... (says the curvy lady in the corner who gave up waiting to be asked years ago).....
There have been loads and loads of threads about "dancer insecurities", "body issues" (like this one) and so on.

Yes, more attractive / slimmer women get more attention, especially from some men. In dance, and in the outside world. But that's life.

And yes, if you have to pull someone around a move, then it's easier to pull a lesser weight. But then, if you're pulling someone anyway, you're doing it wrong.

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 10:46 AM
There have been loads and loads of threads about "dancer insecurities", "body issues" (like this one) and so on.

Yes, more attractive / slimmer women get more attention, especially from some men. In dance, and in the outside world. But that's life.

And yes, if you have to pull someone around a move, then it's easier to pull a lesser weight. But then, if you're pulling someone anyway, you're doing it wrong.

somewhat stepped on my point there David !!!

TheTramp
9th-October-2006, 11:31 AM
And yes, if you have to pull someone around a move, then it's easier to pull a lesser weight. But then, if you're pulling someone anyway, you're doing it wrong.

It's not so much me pulling to lead, it's the followers who throw their weight backwards, and pull on me that I worry about. And that has nothing to do with their actual size*.






*I may well have said this on this thread before, some time ago. But I can't be bothered going back to check!

MartinHarper
9th-October-2006, 12:25 PM
I’ve danced with a few people who seem to think that size + speed of track = must use extra heavy lead to get me where they want me. :angry: It ain't necessary!

It's possible to yank any follower. However, it's very difficult to use a very heavy lead on a light responsive follower. They accelerate too fast to apply significant force. Imagine an empty shopping trolley: there's a limit to how hard you can push it before it's out of range. If you take the same trolley when it's full up, it's easy to apply lots of force, because it's slower to respond.

jivecat
9th-October-2006, 12:28 PM
Yet I’ve danced with a few people who seem to think that size + speed of track = must use extra heavy lead to get me where they want me. :angry: It ain't necessary!

Maybe those people yank everybody around, not just people they might perceive as larger. So maybe you don't need to take it personally!




Thinking about it, I can't ever recall dancing with someone and thinking "Blimey, she's fat". Not once.
I have thought that. But at least it proves I dance with fat people. I also ask fat men to dance. Do I get extra brownie points for that?

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 12:40 PM
I have thought that. But at least it proves I dance with fat people. I also ask fat men to dance. Do I get extra brownie points for that?

my point exactly - " at least it proves i dance with fat people" suggests its something you dont want to do,,.....it also suggests fatism and as my point stated earlier,, most people thankfully dont have prejudices about body shape and the like but some (who think they dont) actually do as the above quote shows.

dancing as we all know should be about fun, friends and getting that fantastic feeling when two people or three hit it off on the dance floor.

jivecat
9th-October-2006, 12:55 PM
my point exactly - " at least it proves i dance with fat people" suggests its something you dont want to do,,.....it also suggests fatism and as my point stated earlier,, most people thankfully dont have prejudices about body shape and the like but some (who think they dont) actually do as the above quote shows.
Oh dear, looks like I'm in trouble.:devil: Better stop asking fat people to dance in case they think I'm patronising them by positive fattism. BTW, I don't ask fat people to dance if I think they look like cr*p dancers, but therein lies another prejudice altogether. I think the forum's already covered that one as well.



dancing as we all know should be about fun, friends and getting that fantastic feeling when two people or three hit it off on the dance floor.


Like I said it wasn't. Please don't lecture me.

Twirly
9th-October-2006, 12:58 PM
It's possible to yank any follower. However, it's very difficult to use a very heavy lead on a light responsive follower. They accelerate too fast to apply significant force. Imagine an empty shopping trolley: there's a limit to how hard you can push it before it's out of range. If you take the same trolley when it's full up, it's easy to apply lots of force, because it's slower to respond.

Well this probably explains why I almost always lose my balance with them, go flying and almost fall over then! :rofl:

And even when it’s not at the extreme end of the scale, I’m being sent around at high speed on spins for example, and am struggling to maintain my balance. This probably makes it seem as though I’m fighting back when I’m being lead.

The leads I’m talking about are certainly not “inviting” me to do something, they are forcing me into it. This “shopping trolley” has a brain, can hear the music and contribute to the dance – I don’t need to be given lots of extra force to go into a fast spin because the music dictates it, I can hear it and do it myself if I’m given the suggestion that a spin might be a good idea at that point.

I have to say that this doesn’t happen often. It’s happened in freestyle with strangers a couple of times (so no idea what they are like with other people) and someone I dance with occasionally does it, and I know he’s a popular partner so I can’t imagine he’s doing it with everyone. I am beginning to think that we are simply incompatible (whereas before I was just plain scared of him!) since we can both dance perfectly well with other people. C’est la vie. :rolleyes:

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 01:09 PM
Oh dear, looks like I'm in trouble.:devil: Better stop asking fat people to dance in case they think I'm patronising them by positive fattism. BTW, I don't ask fat people to dance if I think they look like cr*p dancers, but therein lies another prejudice altogether. I think the forum's already covered that one as well.




Like I said it wasn't. Please don't lecture me.

really wasn't lecturing :flower:

dont be so aggressive take a chill pill

jivecat
9th-October-2006, 01:44 PM
dont be so aggressive take a chill pill

I'll stop being aggressive when you stop accusing me of being prejudiced!



most people thankfully dont have prejudices about body shape and the like but some (who think they dont) actually do as the above quote shows.

I would take issue with this. I think most people DO have prejudices, or to use a less loaded term, preferences, when it comes to body shape. Otherwise , why are we having this thread at all? I have certainly met a few "body fascists" who unashamedly judge people adversely on their body shape. I think you can get some important information about people from observations of their body shape but in many situations it is simply irrelevant. It would be absurd to suppose that someone's body expresses nothing about what sort of person they are. I feel that my body expresses a great deal about me and the way I choose to live, but is not the sum of me. Furthermore, if my body were to change (as it surely will) in many ways I will no longer be the same person. So, if I meet a person who is very overweight I do pause to wonder how they feel about themselves, what it is like to live inside that body and how the external image they have chosen matches the person inside, especially as it is far from my experience. Is that prejudice? So be it.

I don't prejudge worthiness as a dance partner on the basis of body shape. Inasmuch I don't consider myself prejudiced in this context.

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 01:51 PM
I'll stop being aggressive when you stop accusing me of being prejudiced!
.

not intended at all in that way. the last thing i would accuse anybody of is being prejudiced my point was that we sometimes let first impressions count which is a shame.

really not at all digging at you. sorry if you felt i was :flower:

lets not fall out. :D :respect:

jivecat
9th-October-2006, 01:59 PM
really not at all digging at you. sorry if you felt i was :flower:

lets not fall out. :D :respect:

Nah, let's not. Thanks for your apology! I must have got out the wrong side of the bed this morning! :cheers: :flower: :kiss:

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 02:00 PM
Nah, let's not. Thanks for your apology! I must have got out the wrong side of the bed this morning! :cheers: :flower: :kiss:

your welcome....xx

:flower:

Sunshine_Annie
9th-October-2006, 02:07 PM
if its fun who care what size!!!!:cheers:

David Bailey
9th-October-2006, 02:13 PM
I don't think anyone's said anything about dancing with fat guys in this thread - could be wrong, but I don't have the energy to re-read it.

However, I can think of a couple of f&t men on the scene - one of whom at least is a good dancer. Ladies, do you have any problems dancing with guys who are more well-proportioned, or is this just a girl thing?

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 02:26 PM
I don't think anyone's said anything about dancing with fat guys in this thread - could be wrong, but I don't have the energy to re-read it.

However, I can think of a couple of f&t men on the scene - one of whom at least is a good dancer. Ladies, do you have any problems dancing with guys who are more well-proportioned, or is this just a girl thing?

i think girls tend to think literally how good a person is where as men tend to think how good a person looks. :D

TheTramp
9th-October-2006, 02:31 PM
i think girls tend to think literally how good a person is where as men tend to think how good a person looks. :D

I think that's rather a generalised comment. And there are certainly many exceptions to this rule. On both sides!

David Bailey
9th-October-2006, 02:47 PM
i think girls tend to think literally how good a person is where as men tend to think how good a person looks. :D
That's always possible. Although the preponderance of :drool: icons posted by women on this forum makes me doubt it. :rofl:

Or... it could be that dancing with f&t men isn't at all challenging technically for girls, but dancing with f&t women may be more challenging for some guys.

Or... it could be that women are more body-conscious (of themselves and others) than men.

Or...?

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 02:51 PM
Or... it could be that dancing with f&t men isn't at all challenging technically for girls, but dancing with f&t women may be more challenging for some guys.

Or...?

i think it does not matter if they are fat or not.... if a woman is a bad dancer or difficult to lead this will be because they are bad dancers not because of their weight. Even drops if done by a competant man can be carried out if the woman regardless of her size knows how to drop properly....

the only time size matters is for aerials.....now that has to weight related.

in my opinion of course. :flower:

Twirly
9th-October-2006, 03:03 PM
That's always possible. Although the preponderance of :drool: icons posted by women on this forum makes me doubt it. :rofl:

Or... it could be that dancing with f&t men isn't at all challenging technically for girls, but dancing with f&t women may be more challenging for some guys.

Or... it could be that women are more body-conscious (of themselves and others) than men.

Or...?

I’ve known a number of very large (clinically obese) men to be extremely light on their feet and very good dancers. Lighter than some much smaller men.

About 15 years or so ago, before I’d really done any partner dancing (and what I had done, such as salsa, I’d been totally appalling at!), there was a very large chap at work who did some type of dance with me at our works summer party. I remember being totally amazed at how well he moved, and how well he managed to move me as I was totally impossible to lead in those days. :blush:

Ditto for a chap I met at the first Greenwich freestyle I went to a couple of months ago. Probably the largest man I’ve ever danced with. He was also at Camber and ESG took some good shots of him and his partner. I really like dancing with him (and he's leads me nice and lightly! :D )

I’d be more concerned about the man’s ability to dance, hygiene, degree of sleaze, etc, than I would before I looked at his weight.

Women might be more aware of how men may select on grounds of weight/seize as we are under so much more pressure to conform to a certain ideal. Sadly, this pressure is now coming to bear on men. I hope that they resist it.

NZ Monkey
9th-October-2006, 03:26 PM
And even when it’s not at the extreme end of the scale, I’m being sent around at high speed on spins for example, and am struggling to maintain my balance. This probably makes it seem as though I’m fighting back when I’m being lead.Don’t worry Twirly, as one of those inconsiderate sods who send you around on high speed spins every now and then, I can quite categorically say that it’s never felt you were fighting them :D


I’d be more concerned about the man’s ability to dance, hygiene, degree of sleaze, etc, than I would before I looked at his weight.Ditto (although I don’t mind a bit of sleaze in a dance partner sometimes:whistle:). It never ceases to amaze me just how a woman can ask any other woman in the room who to dance with or avoid, and get a full run-down of every little fault in virtually every guy on the dance floor or a description of how well they lead. It’s quite a contrast to the guys, who’ll just point out the good or bad dancers with a ‘’her’’, ‘’shes good’’, ‘’don’t touch her with a 10ft pole’’. :D :wink:

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 03:30 PM
Ditto (although I don’t mind a bit of sleaze in a dance partner sometimes:whistle:). It never ceases to amaze me just how a woman can ask any other woman in the room who to dance with or avoid, and get a full run-down of every little fault in virtually every guy on the dance floor or a description of how well they lead. It’s quite a contrast to the guys, who’ll just point out the good or bad dancers with a ‘’her’’, ‘’shes good’’, ‘’don’t touch her with a 10ft pole’’. :D :wink:


you know us woman are sticklers for attention to detail. :flower:

David Bailey
9th-October-2006, 03:35 PM
Women might be more aware of how men may select on grounds of weight/seize as we are under so much more pressure to conform to a certain ideal. Sadly, this pressure is now coming to bear on men. I hope that they resist it.
You know, I'm not entirely sure the "body fascism" thing is driven by men - a lot of the time, it seems to be women judging women, or women setting standards. Men really aren't that picky...

Of course, you could take it a step backwards, and say that the reason women judge women is because of the male-dominated visual culture. But then, you could blame men for anything :rofl:

Anyway, what I was trying to say is that I reckon a lot of beginner / intermediate men may indeed be put off dancing with larger ladies, simply because they think it could be more difficult to do so - that's apart from any "attractiveness" based judgements. But, I don't know if this factor would apply to women dancing with larger lads?

Twirly
9th-October-2006, 03:38 PM
Don’t worry Twirly, as one of those inconsiderate sods who send you around on high speed spins every now and then, I can quite categorically say that it’s never felt you were fighting them :D

Thank you! Although you don't lead me like I'm a fully-loaded shopping trolley :rofl: You always invite me nicely to do something (and thank goodness don't get cross when I'm having an off day/dance and do something else entirely :blush: ) Dancing with you is always light and easy :drool:


Ditto (although I don’t mind a bit of sleaze in a dance partner sometimes:whistle:).

Noted! :whistle: :rofl: (and note that I said degree of sleaze... :na: )


It never ceases to amaze me just how a woman can ask any other woman in the room who to dance with or avoid, and get a full run-down of every little fault in virtually every guy on the dance floor or a description of how well they lead. It’s quite a contrast to the guys, who’ll just point out the good or bad dancers with a ‘’her’’, ‘’shes good’’, ‘’don’t touch her with a 10ft pole’’. :D :wink:

Well what do you think we're doing whilst you are thinking up the moves?! We've got to have something to occupy our minds... :devil: (oh dear, I'll have given every man a complex now...)

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 03:43 PM
You know, I'm not entirely sure the "body fascism" thing is driven by men - a lot of the time, it seems to be women judging women, or women setting standards. Men really aren't that picky...

?


Really,, men are not that picky...... so pick one of these....

slightly overweight woman dancing fantastic, wearing slacks and flat ceroc trainers.

slim blonde or brunette, wearing short rah rah skirt,, thong dancing slighly more basic steps.

which one would you pick...???

TheTramp
9th-October-2006, 03:46 PM
Really,, men are not that picky...... so pick one of these....

slightly overweight woman dancing fantastic, wearing slacks and flat ceroc trainers.

slim blonde or brunette, wearing short rah rah skirt,, thong dancing slighly more basic steps.

which one would you pick...???

Both!

I assume there's more than one track at this freestyle :flower:

Gordon J Pownall
9th-October-2006, 03:47 PM
Both - simple really - dance with both...! and in no particular order...!:hug:

TheTramp
9th-October-2006, 03:47 PM
Both - simple really - dance with both...! and in no particular order...!:hug:

Too slow! :yum:

David Bailey
9th-October-2006, 03:49 PM
Really,, men are not that picky...... so pick one of these....

slightly overweight woman dancing fantastic, wearing slacks and flat ceroc trainers.

slim blonde or brunette, wearing short rah rah skirt,, thong dancing slighly more basic steps.

which one would you pick...???
Reminds me of a joke - but I won't say it, we're not upstairs.

I've said it before, several times - I pick the best dancer, always. If I don't know how good a dancer she is, my next criterion is "attitude". Failing that, then and only then it's based on "looks".

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 03:54 PM
Reminds me of a joke - but I won't say it, we're not upstairs.

I've said it before, several times - I pick the best dancer, always. If I don't know how good a dancer she is, my next criterion is "attitude". Failing that, then and only then it's based on "looks".


well good on you... would love to be able to test that theory.....

great tho,,, so i look forward to dancing with you,, :flower:

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 03:56 PM
Both!

I assume there's more than one track at this freestyle :flower:

dont you just hate clever people :hug:

Tessalicious
9th-October-2006, 04:06 PM
slim blonde or brunette, wearing short rah rah skirt,, thong dancing slighly more basic steps.

which one would you pick...???I heard a rumour, somewhere, that when there's a girl dancing in a very short skirt and a thong, the men draw straws and the one with the short straw dances with her - the others sit back on the lowest chairs they can and watch closely.

Sorry, not helping the issue am I? :innocent:


Back on thread, I have to say, I've only occasionally been aware of dancing with a couple of guys where his body size made the dance less enjoyable, but that has usually been with beginner men whose posture was bad and so certain things became awkward and uncomfortable to do. That includes guys who are taller than they know what to do with, or shorter than me and embarrassed about being so, or so skinny it hurts when they bring you in hip-to-hip, and women of all four types as well.

So I would say, for me at least, that how the person carries their body (and compensates for anything that might cause mechanical difficulties) is a much better indication of whether I would enjoy a dance with them than their size or shape.

Anyway, some of my best friends are fat people. :devil:

Twirly
9th-October-2006, 04:09 PM
Really,, men are not that picky...... so pick one of these....

slightly overweight woman dancing fantastic, wearing slacks and flat ceroc trainers.

slim blonde or brunette, wearing short rah rah skirt,, thong dancing slighly more basic steps.

which one would you pick...???


Both!

I assume there's more than one track at this freestyle :flower:


Both - simple really - dance with both...! and in no particular order...!:hug:

There was - but it's the last track, you really love the track and you really want to dance to it. These are the only two women available. Now which one do you pick?

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 04:18 PM
There was - but it's the last track, you really love the track and you really want to dance to it. These are the only two women available. Now which one do you pick?

exactly well done Twirly,.....:worthy:

bigdjiver
9th-October-2006, 04:28 PM
There was - but it's the last track, you really love the track and you really want to dance to it. These are the only two women available. Now which one do you pick?:devil: you?

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 04:33 PM
:devil: you?

are you asking a question there or making a statement.??

David Bailey
9th-October-2006, 04:40 PM
There was - but it's the last track, you really love the track and you really want to dance to it. These are the only two women available. Now which one do you pick?
Both. At the same time. :na:

Still resisting the joke. Must resist.. Must resist...

Gentabout
9th-October-2006, 04:44 PM
I dance with anyone that will let me dance with them, being on the large side (fat) myself i am always gratefull if anyone asks me to dance.

I have on occasions noticed women who look me up and down and i can see on there face they don't want to dance. But hey least i am sort of happy.

One of the best dances i had at camber was with a certain contributer to this thread, it was very early (about 10am) on the saturday morning and she had no idea who i was until we were introduced later. I realy enjoyed it, i am unsure if she did as i was not realy on form, probally due to slightly over doing it the night before, i think i got to bed around 6am.

Gent

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 04:44 PM
:D yep,,, as i suspected,,, avoid the answer with a question.. clever...!!!! but not quite clever enough.... xx :flower:

so wot is your answer we are interested!!!

Twirly
9th-October-2006, 04:55 PM
Both. At the same time. :na:

Still resisting the joke. Must resist.. Must resist...


And what if they don't want to share you... :whistle: and make you chose one or the other?!

I dare you to tell the joke, even if the thread does get sent upstairs... :devil:

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 04:57 PM
And what if they don't want to share you... :whistle: and make you chose one or the other?!

I dare you to tell the joke, even if the thread does get sent upstairs... :devil:

and i double dare ya :D

MartinHarper
9th-October-2006, 04:58 PM
It's the last track, you really love the track and you really want to dance to it. These are the only two women available. Now which one do you pick?

Well, you're assuming that I am most attracted to women who are some perfect size wearing short skirts and skimpy underwear, which isn't very accurate. Still, I guess that's being pedantic, so I'll pretend you're offering me a choice between one woman who is a better dancer, and one woman who I find more physically attractive, who are otherwise identical. Because that happens all the time.

If I love the track, the better dancer, no question.
If I really love it, whoever's closest. Don't want to miss a second!
If the track is ho-hum, I guess I might pick the prettier one. Really though, as Tessa says, I don't have to dance with someone to appreciate their looks.

Twirly
9th-October-2006, 05:00 PM
:devil: you?


are you asking a question there or making a statement.??

I was wonder that. :confused:

So, you're going to leave this freestyle, with this wonderful track and these two ladies and come and track me down wherever I am to ask me to dance? :confused: (I don't recall saying that I was at the freestyle in question!)

I'm beginning to feel like Jeremy Paxman trying to get a straight answer out of Tony Blair! :rofl:

TheTramp
9th-October-2006, 05:11 PM
dont you just hate clever people :hug:

Maybe. I'm not sure that I know any though! :flower:

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 05:14 PM
Maybe. I'm not sure that I know any though! :flower:

mm,, im sure you do.. im here and you now know me a little. :D :flower: ;)

TheTramp
9th-October-2006, 05:14 PM
And what if they don't want to share you... :whistle: and make you chose one or the other?!

Probably someone else then. (Yeah, I know. They're the only 2 people who aren't dancing by now. The fat one can't be that good then, cos otherwise someone else would have asked her by now!).

Oh, and for the record. The one who can dance better :flower:

Trouble
9th-October-2006, 05:17 PM
Oh, and for the record. The one who can dance better :flower:

your all so honourable.....wow....xx :flower:

Twirly
9th-October-2006, 05:27 PM
your all so honourable.....wow....xx :flower:

I guess that the answer for us Trouble is to only dance with guys from the forum... :wink: Mind you, from my limited experience so far, I don't think that would be such a hardship :D

TheTramp
9th-October-2006, 05:55 PM
your all so honourable.....wow....xx :flower:

Yeah. Though, of course you wouldn't want to dance with me. Cos I'm fat! :na: :flower:

TheTramp
9th-October-2006, 05:56 PM
I guess that the answer for us Trouble is to only dance with guys from the forum... :wink: Mind you, from my limited experience so far, I don't think that would be such a hardship :D

Ah. You haven't danced with me yet. And the other beginners!

jivecat
9th-October-2006, 06:12 PM
I dance with anyone that will let me dance with them, being on the large side (fat) myself i am always gratefull if anyone asks me to dance.



Gentabout, I think I did meet you, briefly, and from what I remember, no way would I have described you as fat. I've danced with people double the width of you, and enjoyed it.

bigdjiver
9th-October-2006, 07:17 PM
:D yep,,, as i suspected,,, avoid the answer with a question.. clever...!!!! but not quite clever enough.... xx :flower:

so wot is your answer we are interested!!!:devil: In my case I thought devilishly clever. I did not consider there could be any ambiguity. I do not know you, so, in the event that you are on the large side and wear short skirts and a thong, the answer is still you. [/devil]


I use the devil symbol when my answers wicked, and are not to be taken seriously. :flower:

But seriously ... At our venues the last official track is fast, and I have found that many endomorphs dance those tracks well, their muscles tend to be built for burst of power, the shotput type. For that track, is she looked fit, the endomorph would get my vote.

The last track, the playout, is atmospheric. By that time in the evening I would have a pretty good idea of how those ladies would perform in that situation. If neither looked up to making a shot at it, it would be neither. If they seemed equally able to dancing with feeling it would be the slimmer lady, because I like doing laybacks and lifts to those numbers and I would be prejuduced to expecting the slimmer lady to be better suited to those moves.

There is a larger lady that attends our venues that was ballet trained, and she responds to the music beautifully. She is one that I would trust with music I love, though lifts and laybacks are out.

El Salsero Gringo
9th-October-2006, 07:37 PM
I heard a rumour, somewhere, that when there's a girl dancing in a very short skirt and a thong, the men draw straws and the one with the short straw dances with her - the others sit back on the lowest chairs they can and watch closely.It's a filthy lie.

(And to the man who squealed: I'll see you outside at dawn to sort out your punishment. Wear thick underwear, if you know what's good for you.)



...mechanical difficulties...What a great turn of phrase!

WittyBird
9th-October-2006, 10:47 PM
Anyway, some of my best friends are fat people. :devil:

Ok hint taken, you could've had the decency to tell me in private though :tears:

Beowulf
10th-October-2006, 10:56 AM
It's the last track, you really love the track and you really want to dance to it. These are the only two women available. Now which one do you pick?

Easy.. neither! Because I'm probably exhausted with dancing with all the tall, small, fat , thin, young, old , good and newbie dancers all night.. and besides I've probably danced with them already :wink:

but to answer the question.. Whichever one catches my eye first or which ever one is closer. but wait.. that means there'll be one lady sitting out for the last dance on her own while every other woman is up dancing. I hope there's some men left over too otherwise I'll be so wracked with guilt I wouldn't be able to dance :wink: Oh the burden of responsibility .. I'll not be able to sleep now thinking about that .. thanks Twirly :sad: ... :whistle: :rofl:

Seriously It's one of these hypothetical situations that has no right and wrong answer. I would pick the one I'd danced least with during the evening or the one I didn't have a chance to dance with earlier , or which one was closest to me.. there's hundreds of variables that need to be considered in choosing someone to dance. How they look and how good they dance doesn't even enter into the equation.

Some of the best dances I had on Saturday were with ladies of "larger build" and/or "lesser experience" if I was at all picky I wouldn't have found these gems. :clap: :worthy: :flower:

David Bailey
10th-October-2006, 11:20 AM
and i double dare ya :D

Oh, all right - here it is (http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/old89/tits.854.html) :)

Sunshine_Annie
10th-October-2006, 01:33 PM
Oh, all right - here it is (http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/old89/tits.854.html) :)

that was a chuckle!!!


So, which one did he choose? The one with big tits, of course!

so are you now saying you dance with the people with big tits :rofl: :rofl: lol :wink: :wink:

Trouble
10th-October-2006, 03:43 PM
Oh, all right - here it is (http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/old89/tits.854.html) :)

i rest my bloody case :flower: :yum: :D

xx:flower:

Trouble
10th-October-2006, 03:45 PM
Some of the best dances I had on Saturday were with ladies of "larger build" and/or "lesser experience" if I was at all picky I wouldn't have found these gems. :clap: :worthy: :flower:

:yeah: :respect: such a nice thing to say. xx

TheTramp
10th-October-2006, 03:47 PM
Some of the best dances I had on Saturday were with ladies of "larger build" and/or "lesser experience" if I was at all picky I wouldn't have found these gems. :clap: :worthy: :flower:

Didn't ask me though! Never mind. There's always tonight :yum:

Twirly
10th-October-2006, 03:56 PM
Didn't ask me though! Never mind. There's always tonight :yum:


Someone take pictures please!!! :rofl:

MartinHarper
10th-October-2006, 03:58 PM
Didn't ask me though! Never mind. There's always tonight :yum:

So are you "larger build" or "lesser experience"?

TheTramp
10th-October-2006, 04:00 PM
So are you "larger build" or "lesser experience"?

Both. At least! :whistle:

Beowulf
10th-October-2006, 04:04 PM
Didn't ask me though! Never mind. There's always tonight :yum:


Someone take pictures please!!! :rofl:

cough.. cough... I feel ill all of a sudden. :whistle:

Don't encourage him Twirly !! :sick:

Well.. only if I can lead.. I make a lousy follower :)

Trouble
10th-October-2006, 04:04 PM
Someone take pictures please!!! :rofl:

oh please, that i would love to see. :rofl: :flower:

Beowulf
10th-October-2006, 04:06 PM
oh please, that i would love to see. :rofl: :flower:

Oh heck.. I'm doomed !!

thanks Twirly :eek: :rolleyes:








(i'll get my own back.. just you wait ;) :devil: )

TheTramp
10th-October-2006, 04:08 PM
cough.. cough... I feel ill all of a sudden. :whistle:

Don't encourage him Twirly !! :sick:

Well.. only if I can lead.. I make a lousy follower :)

Oh. It's not that bad. I've danced with more of the blokes on the forum than I can imagine.

And of course I'll let you lead. Just don't be too rough! :flower:

Beowulf
10th-October-2006, 04:11 PM
All day I've been posting in the wrong room.. now it seems this has become the Truth or Dare Annex ;) :rofl:

TheTramp
10th-October-2006, 04:15 PM
Oh. It's not that bad. I've danced with more of the blokes on the forum than I can imagine.

Hmmm. That got me thinking!!

Frank, Jammy, Azande, Scot, Pretzelmeister, Nightowl, McJester, Gadget, CentrAlex, Mr.Fitz, Bill, Brady, Dave Hancock, Quiet_flame, Spice n Easy, RobD, Silverfox, Dreadful Scathe, Andy McGregor, ESG, UnderPar, Raphael, Ceroc Jock, Dance Demon, Sheepman, Rhythm King, Amir, DavidB, Graham, David Franklin, Paul F, Martin Harper, Clive Long, Killingtime, Gordon J Pownall, Jive Brummie, Martin, Simon r, Dan Hudson, Doc Martin, johnthehappyguy, pjay, Keith....

Apologies to those that I've missed out :rolleyes:

Beowulf
10th-October-2006, 04:16 PM
Hmmm. That got me thinking!!

Frank, Jammy, Azande, Scot, Pretzelmeister, Nightowl, McJester, Gadget, CentrAlex, Mr.Fitz, Bill, Brady, Dave Hancock, Quiet_flame, Spice n Easy, RobD, Silverfox, Dreadful Scathe, Andy McGregor, ESG, UnderPar, Raphael, Ceroc Jock, Dance Demon, Sheepman, Rhythm King, Amir, DavidB, Graham, David Franklin, Paul F, Martin Harper, Clive Long, Killingtime, Gordon J Pownall, Jive Brummie, Martin, Simon r, Dan Hudson, Doc Martin, johnthehappyguy, pjay, Keith....

Apologies to those that I've missed out :rolleyes:

Oh well.. at least I'll be in good company then ;) :clap:

Twirly
10th-October-2006, 04:36 PM
Oh heck.. I'm doomed !!

thanks Twirly :eek: :rolleyes:


Ii'll get my own back.. just you wait ;) :devil: )

:innocent:


Hmmm. That got me thinking!!

Frank, Jammy, Azande, Scot, Pretzelmeister, Nightowl, McJester, Gadget, CentrAlex, Mr.Fitz, Bill, Brady, Dave Hancock, Quiet_flame, Spice n Easy, RobD, Silverfox, Dreadful Scathe, Andy McGregor, ESG, UnderPar, Raphael, Ceroc Jock, Dance Demon, Sheepman, Rhythm King, Amir, DavidB, Graham, David Franklin, Paul F, Martin Harper, Clive Long, Killingtime, Gordon J Pownall, Jive Brummie, Martin, Simon r, Dan Hudson, Doc Martin, johnthehappyguy, pjay, Keith....

Apologies to those that I've missed out :rolleyes:


:eek: You've probably danced with more guys than I have!! (forum ones definitely, but possibly generally too :rofl: )

Tessalicious
10th-October-2006, 04:44 PM
Maybe, but they only dance with him once if they can help it!

:innocent: :flower: :hug:

TheTramp
10th-October-2006, 04:45 PM
:eek: You've probably danced with more guys than I have!! (forum ones definitely, but possibly generally too :rofl: )

What can I say? I like to get around! :innocent: :whistle:

TheTramp
10th-October-2006, 04:46 PM
Maybe, but they only dance with him once if they can help it!

:innocent: :flower: :hug:

That's not nice :tears: Or true! :yum:

TheTramp
11th-October-2006, 01:01 AM
Hmmm. That got me thinking!!

Frank, Jammy, Azande, Scot, Pretzelmeister, Nightowl, McJester, Gadget, CentrAlex, Mr.Fitz, Bill, Brady, Dave Hancock, Quiet_flame, Spice n Easy, RobD, Silverfox, Dreadful Scathe, Andy McGregor, ESG, UnderPar, Raphael, Ceroc Jock, Dance Demon, Sheepman, Rhythm King, Amir, DavidB, Graham, David Franklin, Paul F, Martin Harper, Clive Long, Killingtime, Gordon J Pownall, Jive Brummie, Martin, Simon r, Dan Hudson, Doc Martin, johnthehappyguy, pjay, Keith....

Apologies to those that I've missed out :rolleyes:

And Beowulf :rolleyes:

Blueshoes
11th-October-2006, 01:11 AM
Hmmm. That got me thinking!!

Frank, Jammy, Azande, Scot, Pretzelmeister, Nightowl, McJester, Gadget, CentrAlex, Mr.Fitz, Bill, Brady, Dave Hancock, Quiet_flame, Spice n Easy, RobD, Silverfox, Dreadful Scathe, Andy McGregor, ESG, UnderPar, Raphael, Ceroc Jock, Dance Demon, Sheepman, Rhythm King, Amir, DavidB, Graham, David Franklin, Paul F, Martin Harper, Clive Long, Killingtime, Gordon J Pownall, Jive Brummie, Martin, Simon r, Dan Hudson, Doc Martin, johnthehappyguy, pjay, Keith....


And Beowulf :rolleyes:

It's about time you took up double trouble, then you could add to the list 2 at a time :sick:

TheTramp
11th-October-2006, 01:13 AM
It's about time you took up double trouble, then you could add to the list 2 at a time :sick:

I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to look into learning to dance with more than one person at a time! :whistle:

Dynamo
11th-October-2006, 01:28 AM
I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to look into learning to dance with more than one person at a time! :whistle:



It's about time you took up double trouble, then you could add to the list 2 at a time



Hmmm. That got me thinking!!

Frank, Jammy, Azande, Scot, Pretzelmeister, Nightowl, McJester, Gadget, CentrAlex, Mr.Fitz, Bill, Brady, Dave Hancock, Quiet_flame, Spice n Easy, RobD, Silverfox, Dreadful Scathe, Andy McGregor, ESG, UnderPar, Raphael, Ceroc Jock, Dance Demon, Sheepman, Rhythm King, Amir, DavidB, Graham, David Franklin, Paul F, Martin Harper, Clive Long, Killingtime, Gordon J Pownall, Jive Brummie, Martin, Simon r, Dan Hudson, Doc Martin, johnthehappyguy, pjay, Keith....

:yeah: :yeah:

Tried it once at a friends wedding. :what: :wink: :D
Guy 6 foot 3 and 17 stone (my hand was engulfed by his )
and Lady 5 foot 2 and 8 stone.

I think I was leading, but that was probabbly a matter of opinon and perspective. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

So at the next Ceroc weeekender we need to find who gets the best mix of red and silver 1's ho ho ho :whistle:
That was the true purpose for the 1's right :wink:

Blueshoes
11th-October-2006, 09:00 AM
It's about time you took up double trouble, then you could add to the list 2 at a time :sick:



Tried it once at a friends wedding. :what: :wink: :D
Guy 6 foot 3 and 17 stone (my hand was engulfed by his )
and Lady 5 foot 2 and 8 stone.

I think I was leading, but that was probably a matter of opinon and perspective. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


The best double trouble I ever saw was two guys and a lady, every time they came out of a move someone else was leading, superb! :grin:

Twirly
11th-October-2006, 10:25 AM
And Beowulf :rolleyes:

So how'd he do?

And where's the photographic evidence?! :D

Dynamo
11th-October-2006, 10:36 AM
So how'd he do?

And where's the photographic evidence?! :D

Know Trampy would have been superb with Beo :respect:

Have you seen the Bliss Fotos of Noel with Martin on the forum, lots of admiration for the style and skill from many a good dancer. :respect: :respect:

TheTramp
11th-October-2006, 11:24 AM
So how'd he do?

And where's the photographic evidence?! :D

He was great. If only he'd stop apologising! :flower:

And there's NO photographic evidence! Right! :whistle:

Blueshoes
11th-October-2006, 12:07 PM
And there's NO photographic evidence! Right! :whistle:

Wrong, I have the negatives and it'll cost you to get them back......... :)

TheTramp
11th-October-2006, 12:10 PM
Wrong, I have the negatives and it'll cost you to get them back......... :)

You were there? How come I didn't get a dance then?? :na:

Blueshoes
11th-October-2006, 12:15 PM
You were there? How come I didn't get a dance then?? :na:

I was too impressed with Beo, didn't think I'd measure up.... ;)

Blueshoes
11th-October-2006, 12:21 PM
Wrong, I have the negatives and it'll cost you to get them back......... :)

OK, OK, to clarify things I wasn't there last night and I lied about the negatives....... :blush:


You were there? How come I didn't get a dance then?? :na:

I'd be honoured to have a dance with you (Southport Feb?) - just jumping to another thread, are you OK with dips and drops? :grin:

Beowulf
11th-October-2006, 01:04 PM
So how'd he do?

And where's the photographic evidence?! :D


He was great. If only he'd stop apologising! :flower:

And there's NO photographic evidence! Right! :whistle:

Sorry :wink:

hmm.. I DISTINCTLY saw at least one camera flash.. and apparently there's video evidence too.. Although according to the photographer the video may be a little dark.. All the better if you can't see me clearly. My nose was a lovely shade of red thanks to it breaking out :blush:

be keen to see it though.. have never seen how I dance!

TheTramp
11th-October-2006, 01:36 PM
OK, OK, to clarify things I wasn't there last night and I lied about the negatives....... :blush:

I'd be honoured to have a dance with you (Southport Feb?) - just jumping to another thread, are you OK with dips and drops? :grin:

Heh! I believe someone got it on video. I'll be paying the money to her!!

And yeah. I might be fine with dips and drops by then. Depends on how much weight I've lost! :na:

Blueshoes
11th-October-2006, 01:40 PM
And yeah. I might be fine with dips and drops by then. Depends on how much weight I've lost! :na:

What about aerials? :)

TheTramp
11th-October-2006, 01:53 PM
What about aerials? :)

Who's on the bottom?

Blueshoes
11th-October-2006, 02:00 PM
And yeah. I might be fine with dips and drops by then. Depends on how much weight I've lost! :na:


What about aerials? :)


Who's on the bottom?

Err... depends on how much weight you've lost?

I've had a (small) partner touch an 11 foot ceiling with both hands using an assisted lift before, maybe we could try that?

Twirly
11th-October-2006, 02:44 PM
Who's on the bottom?


I thought you were crossing-threading to what appears to be Barry's BDSM thread for a moment then :devil:

David Bailey
11th-October-2006, 03:04 PM
I thought you were crossing-threading to what appears to be Barry's BDSM thread for a moment then :devil:

I thought this had mutated into a "do you dance with TheTramp" thread for a moment... :rolleyes:

Blueshoes
11th-October-2006, 03:06 PM
I thought this had mutated into a "do you dance with TheTramp" thread for a moment... :rolleyes:


............ for men only...........

TheTramp
11th-October-2006, 03:35 PM
I thought this had mutated into a "do you dance with TheTramp" thread for a moment... :rolleyes:

*shrugs*

I'm a fat person.... I think I'm qualified! You on the other hand haven't offered! :na:

Twirly
11th-October-2006, 03:58 PM
*shrugs*

I'm a fat person.... I think I'm qualified! You on the other hand haven't offered! :na:


Well, if you're ever down this way (or I'm up that way), I'd like a dance please Trampy! (Not going to use the word fat about myself though... curvaceous sounds so much nicer :na: )

I'm female though is that OK? :wink: And you'll have to lead... will you cope? :confused: :D

jivecat
11th-October-2006, 04:02 PM
:love:
Well, if you're ever down this way (or I'm up that way), I'd like a dance please Trampy! (Not going to use the word fat about myself though... curvaceous sounds so much nicer :na: )I think Trampy's very curvaceous!:drool:


And you'll have to lead... will you cope? :confused: :D

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Blueshoes
11th-October-2006, 04:05 PM
And there's NO photographic evidence! Right! :whistle:

WRONG!!!!

A lovely photo for people (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9932)

(Sorry Tramp ;) )

Genie
11th-October-2006, 04:11 PM
Mwhahahahahaha! *cough*

Trampy isn't fat, he's cuddly.

I will dance with men of all shapes and sizes... but if I must be honest, I tend towards men who are tall, because I am quite tall for a woman and I've had my head bashed in enough times by shorter men to be weary. Constantly dancing on bent legs gets tiring too quickly. Besides, I hate leaning on a man's shoulder if I have to bend over to reach...

Other than that, I'm happy ;) And fat men usually have the chocolate...

fletch
11th-October-2006, 04:32 PM
And you'll have to lead... will you cope? :confused: :D


He is ok for a beginner :rolleyes: hey trampy :wink:




And fat men usually have the chocolate...

Do they :confused:

:(

TheTramp
11th-October-2006, 04:50 PM
And fat men usually have the chocolate...

Maybe. But they then eat it themselves. You'd be better off finding a thin person who has chocolate!! :whistle:

TheTramp
11th-October-2006, 04:52 PM
I'm female though is that OK? :wink: And you'll have to lead... will you cope? :confused: :D

I'll try to struggle on through. Just for you :rofl:

You're not going to Camber in November then?

Blueshoes
11th-October-2006, 04:53 PM
Maybe. But they then eat it themselves. You'd be better off finding a thin person who has chocolate!! :whistle:


Just what I was doing, giving out chocolate! That was just before I was arrested....

Twirly
11th-October-2006, 04:58 PM
I'll try to struggle on through. Just for you :rofl:

You're not going to Camber in November then?


Aw, thanks :awe: :D Looking forward to it :clap:

Nope, not Camber in November. Might be doing Camber in March, or Ayr in May depending on certain things, (like me passing my driving test).

TheTramp
11th-October-2006, 05:00 PM
Will definitely be in Ayr (well, provided Franck books me to teach and/or DJ! :whistle: )

Don't think I'll be at Camber though...

Genie
12th-October-2006, 01:33 PM
Trampy, I AM a thin person with chocolate. Would YOU like to try and take it from me?

TheTramp
12th-October-2006, 01:37 PM
Trampy, I AM a thin person with chocolate. Would YOU like to try and take it from me?

Oooh. Yes please :rolleyes:

Genie
12th-October-2006, 03:34 PM
*glare* Mine!

Blueshoes
12th-October-2006, 03:51 PM
Trampy's just trying to look after you Genie, as he knows too much chocolate is bad for you. His is an entirely selfless offer to remove this dangerous stuff from your presence before it does you irrevocable harm. And as a final display of affection and brotherly love he'll then consume it himself to render it completely harmless and so save you from yourself.

Don't be angry with him, he deserves a medal.

Martin
12th-October-2006, 04:24 PM
Loved the title, got to page 4, then sort of gave up, but wanted to join in, so went to last page...

I am FAT - a big thank you, to all those lovely ladies who dance with me, and continually ask me for a dance :love:


Facts of life, thin, medium, fat, we all decide what we chuck in our face, be it food or booze. We all decide how much excercise we do. This often determines size. It does not however determine dance ability or character.

Thanks ladies that you still dance with this fat guy...:kiss:

MartinHarper
12th-October-2006, 04:41 PM
I am FAT - a big thank you

Are you sure you're not "more well-proportioned"?

Martin
12th-October-2006, 04:50 PM
Are you sure you're not "more well-proportioned"?


Nope, FAT.

In the same way, blind people are blind and not visually impared. (believe me, having worked with blind people, they like to call a spade a spade)

Genie
12th-October-2006, 05:51 PM
Well, we like to dance. And there's no rule that says Fat Men cannot dance. Some of them are very gentle dancers, very light on their feet and ever so sweet to you. They tend to lack huge amounts of arrogance (I'm leaving Trampy outta this) and you go away feeling you've had a good 'dance'.

Jhutch
18th-October-2006, 10:52 AM
I will happily dance with anyone:) I am a long way from being a perfect human being and don't see why i should judge other people from how they look:)

Lory
3rd-November-2006, 09:38 AM
And there's no rule that says Fat Men cannot dance. Some of them are very gentle dancers, very light on their feet

:yeah: And HERE'S proof! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcdV8cESWUs&mode=related&search=):worthy::waycool:

TheTramp
3rd-November-2006, 09:42 AM
:yeah: And HERE'S proof! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcdV8cESWUs&mode=related&search=):worthy::waycool:

:yeah:

She wasn't bad either! :drool:

Though I'm not sure that she'd qualify into the 'fat' category!

Gav
3rd-November-2006, 12:01 PM
I will happily dance with anyone:) I am a long way from being a perfect human being and don't see why i should judge other people from how they look:)

I, on the other hand, am a perfect human being, but quite happy to dance with all you lesser mortals. :D :rofl:

jacksondonut
3rd-November-2006, 03:00 PM
:yeah: And HERE'S proof! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcdV8cESWUs&mode=related&search=):worthy::waycool:



thank you Lory... :worthy: :flower: I thought they were really lovely to watch... size means nothing when you are talented...:yeah:

:clap: :clap:

MartinHarper
3rd-November-2006, 07:52 PM
Is there an equivalently good video with a fat follower?

Sunshine_Annie
6th-November-2006, 01:07 PM
:yeah: And HERE'S proof! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcdV8cESWUs&mode=related&search=):worthy::waycool:
If she's fat I'm soooo in trouble!!!!!

StokeBloke
25th-December-2006, 01:55 PM
I dance with people :flower:

I would rather dance with a large (fat as you seem to like to call them) person who can dance than someone who is slim and clutches my hand tightly and tries to lead me.

There is a bigger girl at one of the venues that I dance at that I always make a 'b' line for when certain tracks are played. Having danced with her a couple of times I realised that we seem to click nicely for a certain flavour of music.

I just wish I'd never found out that it's considered bad form to dance with someone more than once in an evening :tears:

TheTramp
25th-December-2006, 02:05 PM
I just wish I'd never found out that it's considered bad form to dance with someone more than once in an evening :tears:

It is? By who??

rubyred
25th-December-2006, 02:09 PM
I just wish I'd never found out that it's considered bad form to dance with someone more than once in an evening :tears:

:what: Hope you don't believe these urban myths :really: :confused:

fletch
25th-December-2006, 02:10 PM
I just wish I'd never found out that it's considered bad form to dance with someone more than once in an evening :tears:



say's who.......ho yes Stafford again :rolleyes:

StokeBloke
25th-December-2006, 02:21 PM
say's who.......ho yes Stafford again :rolleyes: You know they say "Assume makes an ass of u and me" :love: it has nothing to do with the fabulous Stafford, I actually read it here - now let me see if I can find the thread....

fletch
25th-December-2006, 02:23 PM
You know they say "Assume makes an ass of u and me" :love: it has nothing to do with the fabulous Stafford, I actually read it here - now let me see if I can find the thread....

I have neaver been very good at doing what i'm told :whistle:

Dai
26th-December-2006, 02:58 AM
I just wish I'd never found out that it's considered bad form to dance with someone more than once in an evening :tears:


Where did you hear that one then? I guess i'm a very rude dancer then, if i enjoy dancing with someone, i'll ask them to dance whether or not we have had a dance already that evening.

With regards to dancing with people due to their build, obviously you scan the dance floor, and try to dance with the people who dance well,/in your dance ability bracket, if there are some good looking people that fall into that group - all the better. However on the whole, if there is a larger good dancer or a petitte novice dancer, i'd probably pick the one who seems happiest, and most fun. As a taxi dancer i like to help begginers, and it has a real feel good factor about it. However a good dance to the right song can be really sexy, and very enjoyable.

Anyway... wouldn't refuse someone for a dance due to their looks, thats jsut rude!

fletch
26th-December-2006, 01:12 PM
I guess i'm a very rude dancer then,

Anyway... wouldn't refuse someone for a dance due to their looks, thats jsut rude!

i'm saying nothing on the grounds that I might not get another dance :na:


And there are people that refuse due to the look of the person asking, and yes they are RUDE,:mad: but what goes around comes around IMO :grin:

Dai
26th-December-2006, 01:17 PM
... there are people that refuse due to the look of the person asking, and yes they are RUDE,:mad: but what goes around comes around IMO :grin:

true


i'm saying nothing on the grounds that I might not get another dance :na:

i would never refuse you dear Fletch!!! :wink:

fletch
26th-December-2006, 03:49 PM
i would never refuse you dear Fletch!!! :wink:




oooo i'll see just how far I can push it then :whistle:


:wink: :D

Dai
27th-December-2006, 03:00 AM
oooo i'll see just how far I can push it then :whistle:


:wink: :D


Is that so??!!?!?! :eek:

fletch
27th-December-2006, 10:07 AM
Is that so??!!?!?! :eek:

No! no! I take it back :really:


I don't want to end up like Jamie last Friday at Derby :na:

Dai
27th-December-2006, 10:38 AM
No! no! I take it back :really:


I don't want to end up like Jamie last Friday at Derby :na:

Well i'm not sure i should be trying to get you on your back :wink:

Easter Bunny
27th-December-2006, 10:42 AM
Is it just me ? or does anyone else find this post offensive. Surely there are enough other areas in this life where we are judged by what size we are causing problems of anorexia and / or bulimia.

As a mother of a young daughter obsessed about her weight it is very upsetting.

Makes no difference to me what size a dancer is, be it male or female, I just enoy it if they can actually dance.

David Bailey
27th-December-2006, 11:44 AM
Is it just me ? or does anyone else find this post offensive.
Assuming you mean "this thread", I suggest you read through from the start to get the context - it's supposed to be tongue-in-cheek. Errr, I think...

In fact, I recommend anyone posting on this thread does that too, because we've seen the same type of post made about 50 times recently. :rolleyes:

stewart38
28th-December-2006, 05:46 PM
Does anyone else find this thread offensive or is it just me ?? :mad: :mad: :mad: :devil: :angry: :angry: :angry: :mad:












Surely it should be ‘why would you ‘ ??

MartinHarper
28th-December-2006, 06:21 PM
As a tall fat man I dont take offence to the thread.

Does anyone else find this thread offensive or is it just me?

No, no, we're talking about dancing with all the fat people, not just you.