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Gadget
4th-December-2002, 09:51 AM
By my reckoning, the number of theoretical moves should be able to be quantified...
I can think of 15 spatial positions around your body that your hand can(should) be in.
- Extended low & high R/L: Above partners & your head: Behind your back: Your & partners shoulder R/L: Your & partners Hip R/L.

On the premise that a high hand turns and a low or body hands stops.

If you limit the number of 'start' and 'end' positions to the stop positions (6), then there are (15x6) 90 single handed moves, moving from a stop position to X and back again.
If you want to end in another stop position then this increases to (90x6) 540 movements.
If you want to swap hands during the move, then there are another 540.
If you add a spin before catching then that's another 540.
So we have 1620 basic single handed movements.

But you have two hands, and one can be going in one place while the other goes to another, then there are (1620x1620) 2,624,400 permutations.

So without joining two moves together there should be 2,626,020 different movements.

So why can I only remember a handfull on the dance floor!

TheTramp
4th-December-2002, 10:15 AM
Impressive statistics Gadget.

I went through all the moves I know, and could only think of 2,626,019 though. Can you list them all please, so that I can find the one I'm missing....

Steve

Lou
4th-December-2002, 10:15 AM
You have far too much time on your hands (even if you can put them in a multitude of positions & combinations!) :wink:

Gadget
4th-December-2002, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Lou
You have far too much time on your hands (even if you can put them in a multitude of positions & combinations!) :wink:
Naaa - I write stuff down when inspiration strikes, and then just post it when the forum seems quiet, or there havenÕt been any posts for a while. {I know: sad :tears:}

I did think that Graham might appreciate the thread - I'm sure that he could put all the moves into a spreadsheet and get it to work out all the combinations; then Tramp could compare it with his repertoire and see where the missing one went. :wink:

Lorna
4th-December-2002, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Gadget
Naaa - I write stuff down when inspiration strikes, and then just post it when the forum seems quiet, or there havenÕt been any posts for a while. {I know: sad :tears:}Mmmm, you said it!! :na: :grin:

lotsa love Lorna x-x

TheTramp
4th-December-2002, 01:36 PM
Naaa - I write stuff down when inspiration strikes, and then just post it when the forum seems quiet, or there havenÕt been any posts for a whileThis all sounds very organised. I'm very impressed!!

Steve

Bill
4th-December-2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Gadget
So without joining two moves together there should be 2,626,020 different movements.

So why can I only remember a handfull on the dance floor! Know the feeling gadget....................... I was about to try and note down the moves from last night and I could hardly remember :tears: :eek: ............and I was demo-ing........:sick: on a good night I think I remember about 12 moves ....and if inspiraiton strikes I remember one from alst week !

Is it just short term memory loss ??:sorry :what:

TheTramp
4th-December-2002, 02:13 PM
Is it just short term memory loss ??Alzheimers?? :rolleyes:

*ducks*

Steve:rolleyes:

Dreadful Scathe
4th-December-2002, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Alzheimers?? :rolleyes:

*ducks*

Steve:rolleyes:

I dont think ducks can get Alzheimers, or blue mice for that matter.
:confused:

Gus
4th-December-2002, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Gadget
So without joining two moves together there should be 2,626,020 different movements.

So why can I only remember a handfull on the dance floor! Well, getting away from the bottom up approach to moves ... another approach.

After the last update there is about 520 'official' Ceroc moves. Add the 20 or so dips/drops that arn't coeverd, add the 150 moves that have been developed in the general modern Jive area and you come up with the 700(ish) moves that your average Ceroc instructor has seen/knows.... then ask one of them to demo them all...:wink:

Even just after finishing my CTA training (was about 490 moves in those long gone days) and after two years of Beach Boogie/Jive Spree/MJC ... I reckon I could only actively remember about 70 moves or so .... now, on an average night I'd be surprised if I did more than 30 different moves ..... thats one of the reasons I used to get bored stupid with dancing ... just found myself doing the same old moves over and over again ... common problem.

TheTramp
4th-December-2002, 03:16 PM
On the other hand. It's quite nice when a nice move that you haven't done for ages suddenly pops back into memory. And you spend the rest of that evening doing it so many times that every woman is completely fed up with it by the end!!

Steve

DavidB
4th-December-2002, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Gus
now, on an average night I'd be surprised if I did more than 30 different moves ..... thats one of the reasons I used to get bored stupid with dancing ... just found myself doing the same old moves over and over again ... common problem. Funny you should say that. I danced a lot last week, and by the end of Saturday night, I was getting bored with the moves that I was doing. I desperately need some inspiration (or a break) at the moment.

David

Gus
4th-December-2002, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
Funny you should say that. I danced a lot last week, and by the end of Saturday night, I was getting bored with the moves that I was doing. I desperately need some inspiration (or a break) at the moment.

David

Well thats why I gave up Ceroc about three years ago ... I guess I was on the verge of doing it again this summer ... then did my quick tour of Scotland and somewhere along the way I got my interest back. Possibly one thing that got my interest was the differnt style of Ceroc, especially the more Blues style .... Fran and Laura have definitely corrupted me ... and I LOVE it!

The thing that keeps me going now is not so much new moves as new ways of dancing ... the Club and UCP style have got me interested and compensate for my goldfish memory for moves ... though I do need to start learning some bigger moves....

Keith
4th-December-2002, 06:28 PM
Funny you should say that. I danced a lot last week, and by the end of Saturday night, I was getting bored with the moves that I was doing. I desperately need some inspiration (or a break) at the moment.

Funny that! I think every one has the same feeling & if they don't, I'm sure their partner, if regular, as in the dance sense, not the allbran sense does, anyway. I find my inspiration from other forms of dance, i.e Salsa, Cha Cha, Tango, Old movies etc. It never ceases to amaze me how you can utilise these moves, introducing what appear to be new ones, or another way of doing existing ones, which all of a sudden become more inspirational.
I got a great Lunge & Tap move from a Tango Film, that was on, in a bar last year when I was Skiing, & I still love it!
Also if you're lucky enough to travel the country, you can find inspiration from other Teachers & Venues. This isn't your regular Teachers fault, it's purely that you get use to his style & preference of moves.

TheTramp
4th-December-2002, 06:52 PM
I'll go with what Keith says about doing different things helping to stop that feeling of boredom....

I usually dance about 5/6 times a week, and what really makes it for me, is the fact that because I travel so much, and go to so many different places, I get to see so many different people, and dance to so much different music from different DJs, that it still hasn't become stale.

Having said that, I've now taken up salsa as well, and I'm loving that too....

Steve

Gadget
5th-December-2002, 12:02 AM
I find that the music is a great inspiration; trying to dance in a style that suits the music, while blends with your partner's style.
I admit that the actual moves can get a bit repetative, but if I get bored with them, I try something different - usually ends in a knot of arms, or having to spin one of us to get out of it, or having to find my partner again... But occasionally I find a good combination or pause that I try to remember. :nice:

Graham
5th-December-2002, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Gadget

I did think that Graham might appreciate the thread - I'm sure that he could put all the moves into a spreadsheet and get it to work out all the combinations; then Tramp could compare it with his repertoire and see where the missing one went. :wink:
If anyone's looking for a Christmas gift for Gadget, I suggest "The 85 ways to tie a tie", Thomas Fink & John Yao, Fourth Estate. (This is a real book, by the way! :nice: )

Sadly, Gadget, your analysis is deeply flawed. What you've tried to do is an exercise in topology, which isn't my field, so I'm certainly not going to try and work out what the real answer is - I just know enough about it to tell that you're incorrect (ie, nothing whatsoever :wink: ).

TheTramp
5th-December-2002, 02:00 AM
Does this mean that we don't get one of those pretty graphs then Graham?? :tears:

Steve

Gadget
5th-December-2002, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Graham
Sadly, Gadget, your analysis is deeply flawed. What you've tried to do is an exercise in topology, which isn't my field, so I'm certainly not going to try and work out what the real answer is - I just know enough about it to tell that you're incorrect (ie, nothing whatsoever :wink: ).
Eh? ... don't see how...

...

...nope: Only flaw I see is that some moves use a lot more points - so if anything, the figure should be raised by factors.

Anyway, I'll take your word for it; I'm no mathematician {however, I do know one - I'll see if he can work it out}

Bill
5th-December-2002, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
Funny you should say that. I danced a lot last week, and by the end of Saturday night, I was getting bored with the moves that I was doing. I desperately need some inspiration (or a break) at the moment.

David yep.........agree absolutely !:D If you dance with a lot of women they don't realise how limited the range is but after a whole night I often feel bored with my 'repertoire'. :sick:

Think I said befoe that the only thing I like about competitions is that the practice beforehand means I re-learn moves I've forgotten and for about 2/3 weeks I increase the number of moves I can do. Immediately after the comp..........back to the same old moves :tears:

Like Gus and David I felt like stopping for a while but Beach Boogie and a few trips down south - Stockport, Bowden, Altrincham, Nottingham etc.... got the enthusiasm back but I htink a break - or even learning a new style as Steve is doing with Salsa can be great.

Unfortunately the choice up here is limited - I really really want to learn Argentinian Tango :yum: :D ....like Blues but even closer :rolleyes: :eek: :innocent:

Sandy
5th-December-2002, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Impressive statistics Gadget.

I went through all the moves I know, and could only think of 2,626,019 though. Can you list them all please, so that I can find the one I'm missing....

Steve Not bad for a beginner!:wink:

Sandy

TheTramp
6th-December-2002, 05:33 PM
Aha!!

You'll note that I only said I know the moves. Not that I can actually do them on the dancefloor!!!

Steve

Sandy
6th-January-2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Aha!!

You'll note that I only said I know the moves. Not that I can actually do them on the dancefloor!!!

Steve

Well when you come up to Aberdeen you can let me judge for myself!


Still loving the Avatars:wink:

Sandy

TheTramp
6th-January-2003, 07:50 PM
Well, I've been told today by Franck that he's sorted it for the 18th, and the Saturday night party is on :D :D :D

So. I'll see you there (I hope). Make sure you come and let me know who you are....

Steve

Sandy
6th-January-2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Well, I've been told today by Franck that he's sorted it for the 18th, and the Saturday night party is on :D :D :D

So. I'll see you there (I hope). Make sure you come and let me know who you are....

Steve

That's a date if Franck will get me 2 tickets???

Franck dearest darling superb dancing King - can you please keep 2 tickets for the 2 Sandra's, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE. Will be your friend forever!:wink: :devil:

TheTramp
6th-January-2003, 07:55 PM
Can you keep me one too please. And one for Fran (although I'm sure that someone will sort her out (for a ticket I mean, Bill)).

Do I have to call you 'dearest darling superb dancing King' to get one (for a ticket I mean, Franck).

Steve