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View Full Version : Murder (Smoking) on the Dancefloor



TheTramp
28th-November-2002, 04:28 PM
Guess the subject gives my views on people smoking on or near the dancefloor. Especially as someone who is asthmatic. Last night, I had a good time - except for the fact that it was about 1am before I stopped wheezing. The place I was in had ashtrays on every table, and the tables ran down both sides of the dancefloor. Wherever I danced, there were people smoking not too far away.

So, just wondered what other people thought about smoking in dance venues....

Steve

Franck
28th-November-2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
So, just wondered what other people thought about smoking in dance venues.... Personally hate it too! There is nothing worse than dancing to a fast record, and when taking a deep (desperately needed) breath, drawing lungfuls of smoke :reallymad
Not always easy to stop though, though I agree that removing ashtrays seems like a good start.
We have not banned smoking in any venues in Scotland (at the moment), but in fairness, we don't get that many smokers, certainly fewer than I have noticed in London, and most of them seem to (politely) go outside...

I would be interested in the results of your poll, and in particular in the views of smokers! Do they mind going out to smoke, does a good night out dancing need a few cigarettes by the side of the dance floor while watching dancers?

Franck.

PeterL
28th-November-2002, 04:55 PM
I would be interested in the results of your poll, and in particular in the views of smokers! Do they mind going out to smoke, does a good night out dancing need a few cigarettes by the side of the dance floor while watching dancers?

As a smoker I would prefer the ashtrays be removed and smoking banned. I personnally always leave the dancefloor and in the case of Marco's go downstairs.
There is nothing worse than seeing other smokers smoking in an area where you feel out of good manners you should not.

For example at the competition there were no smoking signs everywhere, so I went outside. While as most smokers smoked in the foyer. admittedly not by the dancefloor but even so it is arrogant to believe that you have the right to smoke in a non-smoking area.

It is our habit andf should not be inflicted on people who have the good sense not to do it.

I would vote to ban it from ceroc venues and I am a smoker.
When I am dancing the last thing I want is to see someone smoking it just makes me want a ciggarette myself.

Dave Hancock
28th-November-2002, 04:57 PM
Make them take it outside - nuff said

PeterL
28th-November-2002, 05:05 PM
Make them take it outside - nuff said


I think most do, and rightly so.
As a group most smokers at ceroc are more considerate than smokers tend to be in general. we recognise that people are here to dance and not to inhale our smoke.

TheTramp
28th-November-2002, 05:09 PM
I don't think that the people who smoke inside the venues are the more experienced dancers. Usually they are busy dancing, rather than anything else.

It's usually (although not always) the beginners, who quite often are to intimidated to spend much time on the dancefloor after the classes, but like to sit at the sides and watch. I think in particular 2 ladies who seemed to be almost chain smoking last night, didn't leave their seats until they got up to go.

Steve

Dave Hancock
28th-November-2002, 05:11 PM
Tramp

You should've done a bit of double trouble and then at least you'd have got them to stop for 3 and a half mins!

TheTramp
28th-November-2002, 05:17 PM
I can't do all that fancy stuff. Remember, I'm just a beginner. Look, it says so there...

John S
28th-November-2002, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by PeterL
As a group most smokers at ceroc are more considerate than smokers tend to be in general. we recognise that people are here to dance and not to inhale our smoke.
I think that's generally true, but there are some places, even in Scotland, where not everyone has Peter's enlightened attitude, and I find it really off-putting.

However much I understand and might sympathise with the compulsion that makes people smoke once they're hooked, I'm afraid their freedom to do so ought to stop at my nostrils.
:reallymad

Lorna
28th-November-2002, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by PeterL
It is our habit andf should not be inflicted on people who have the good sense not to do it.
Couldn't have put it any better myself. Since my youth I have always been, very much so, an anti-smoker. I can't stand it!!!!

Unfortunately, the smokers in the Aberdeen venues do not 'take it outside', which upsets me because every week I come home absolutely stinking of smoke. :reallymad I would ban it from all venues. Sorry smokers. :sorry

lotsa love Lorna x-x

Rachel
28th-November-2002, 05:55 PM
Feel like I ought to put my opinion as, I'm ashamed to say, I'm a failed ex-smoker. As in, wanting to give up now but it will have to be tomorrow since I failed again today...

Anyway, I did vote for keeping smoking outside and certainly have no objection going out to smoke myself. I see that as entirely reasonable from the point of view of non-smoking dancers.

I would definitely not smoke close to the dancefloor. However, I do admit that, where a venue has a seating area with ashtrays far removed from the dancers (like Ashtons with the bar upstairs), then I might have a cigarette.

But if an entire venue was declared smoke-free, I wouldn't mind that at all. In fact, I don't normally have the urge or the time to smoke while I'm at Ceroc. (Except, of course, when they play Club Tropicana!)
Rachel

Emma
28th-November-2002, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Remember, I'm just a beginner. Look, it says so there...

Don't listen to him..he's lyin!! :na:

I'm all for non-smoking venues: or at the least an area for smokers which is as far away from the dancing as possible. It might put new people off if they thought Ceroc was strictly 'non-smoking'.

Jon
28th-November-2002, 08:23 PM
Being a non smoker I would prefer no smoking in the venues but as long as the venue has good ventilation it doesn't bother me too much.

Gadget
28th-November-2002, 08:37 PM
I don't mind the casual smoker, as long as they don't blow it in my face or stink of it when dancing. There are a few that puff away in-between dancing - I just don't approach them to dance while they have a cigarette in their hand. Their loss.
If the venue is smoking or non - I would still dance:grin:, but I prefer not to stink of smoke or dance with people who do.

Dreadful Scathe
29th-November-2002, 10:20 AM
most one sided poll ever :)

TheTramp
29th-November-2002, 10:27 AM
Maybe dance organisers should take note?

Steve

Sandy
29th-November-2002, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by TheTramp

So, just wondered what other people thought about smoking in dance venues....

Steve

As a proud recovered social smoker I am really pleased that most people don't smoke at Ceroc as there is no temptation. I would have felt extremely embarrassed to smoke in front of so many non-smokers and when there is a lot of "face to face" going on, I would have been worried about "smokers breath"!

Anyway, I would hate anything to get in the way of my dancing, even a short break to have a ciggie! Now proud to be a non-smoker but appreciate it can be so difficult to give up but definitely think smoking should be done outside or in a specified area away from the dance hall.

:cheers:

Sandy

Rachel
29th-November-2002, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Sandy
I am really pleased that most people don't smoke at Ceroc as there is no temptation. I would have felt extremely embarrassed to smoke in front of so many non-smokers You're dead right, there - if no-one around me is smoking, then I'm much less likely to think about wanting a cigarette. Now, if I could only fill most of my waking hours doing Ceroc, I'd have no problem giving up at all!
Rachel

Sandy
29th-November-2002, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Rachel
Now, if I could only fill most of my waking hours doing Ceroc, I'd have no problem giving up at all!
Rachel

Now that is what I call heaven! Non stop Ceroc:grin:

Sandy:cheers:

Bill
29th-November-2002, 01:59 PM
I think we are forunate that so many Cerocers seem to be non-smokers and those who are do go outside the venue - thanks to those who do :cheers:

I am pretty anti-smoking and hate going to venues , as Lorna says, and coming home reeking of smoke :sick: . And on the very odd occasion you can get that awful smell wafting off a partner as you start dancing..............much worse than being 'sweaty' or 'damp' .

That's one of the reaosons I htink so many people do enjoy Ceroc - there are few smokers and few drinkers..............we all have fun :D :wink:

Sal
29th-November-2002, 02:40 PM
Cigarette smoke irritates my lenses, so would love venues to be smoke-free. I could stop looking like a red-eyed monster!

Fran
30th-November-2002, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by Franck
Personally hate it too! .
We have not banned smoking in any venues in Scotland (at the moment), but in fairness, we don't get that many smokers, certainly fewer than I have noticed in London, and most of them seem to (politely) go outside...

Franck. I think you are right Franck, most smokers thankfully do go out side. I hate the smell of smoke and one of the things I like about dancing is that unlike going into clubs/pubs we dont end up recking of it when we come out.

I have only once walked into the ladies at Marcos and discovered that someone had been smoking - all of us who where in there could smell the smoke on our hair - Uck!:reallymad
I cant remember where I was ( yes I was sober) but quite recently I was at a venue and a man was smoking a really smelly cigar totally unaware that it was unpleasant for all the people around him. Thankfully it does not happen very often.

Fran
:nice:

Alfie
30th-November-2002, 10:24 PM
Hi all:D
Concerning smoking at venues. There are some venues in the Midlands where smoking is discouraged and others where there are ash trays placed on the tables and nobody complains if you have a ciggarette.
I have been a smoker for many years and I enjoy the odd ciggie betwwen bops, however I will bow to the wishes of the majority and go outside to have a smoke if that is what is asked of me.
I did a Victor and Lydia Workshop at Nantwich a couple of years ago and out of the fifty or so people taking part I was the only smoker (I crept away to a quiet corner) which left me feeling like a bit of a lepper.
There are not that many people who smoke at ceroc in the Midlands but I don't see the harm in smoking/non smoking areas inside venues away from the dance floor. It can be a bit of a downer having to stand outside in the cold and wet just to have a quick fag. :tears:
Personally I dont think it will be too many years before smoking is banned in all public places, as is being intoduced in Norway at the moment.

Wendy
1st-December-2002, 03:56 AM
Smoking kills. Passive smoking kills. (And hands up anyone who disagrees - go on I dare you !!!!!!).

I am so glad someone has brought this up as I've been meaning to for ages.

It only takes one smoker to make the place smoky and sadly this encourages other smokers to think it's OK and then they light up and so on. CEROC should take a stance on this one. You can't smoke at work and you can't smoke at an aerobics class so I cannot understand why it is permitted at CEROC.

One of the reasons I didn't stick with salsa was because of the smoky conditions - usually in bars with people free to ogle with a fag in their mouth !!! No thank you !!!

Take it outside - kill yourself if you want just don't kill the rest of us !!!!


Wx
(ex-smoker - you'll not be surprised to hear !!!)

TheTramp
1st-December-2002, 09:41 AM
It only takes one smoker to make the place smoky and sadly this encourages other smokers to think it's OK and then they light up and so on. CEROC should take a stance on this one. You can't smoke at work and you can't smoke at an aerobics class so I cannot understand why it is permitted at CEROC.

I think that this sums up my thoughts quite nicely.

Steve
(never, ever, smoked. never ever will)

Heather
1st-December-2002, 11:43 AM
:D :D :D But my ex-husband is a smoker. My house is a smoke free zone these days , as is my workplace and most other places I frequent. This makes me all the more aware of people smoking, when I do encounter it.I really hate when my daughter, comes home from a weekend at her dad's with her hair and clothes smelling of smoke. And yes, Wendy, passive smoking kills, you'd think he'd have more consideration for his child, but the truth is he, like most smokers are selfish and think only of their own needs and not of others.
Fran, I don't suppose you noticed the two ladies smoking at Marc's last night ? Unfortunately, they sat at my table, and although I avoided sitting there as much as possible (too busy dancing or trying to pry your partner and mine apart!!:wink: :wink: ) , My hair and clothes still stink of smoke.
Why put ashtrays on the table at all? It only makes smokers think that it is acceptable. If they didn't put them out, then the smokers would have to go out for a puff.
:cheers:
Heather,
:kiss: :kiss:

Heather
1st-December-2002, 11:46 AM
:D:D :D SORRY, I do, of course mean Marco's!!!!!!
:cheers:
Heather,
:kiss: :kiss:
Really must use the Preview button!!!!

Jayne
1st-December-2002, 06:35 PM
I too am a passionate anti-smoker - as a child I saw my gandmother's ceiling one month after it was decorated and it's put me off for life! Thankfully most people at ceroc do take it outside (one exception being the woman at our table last night at Marco's :reallymad ), which is great. Personally I'd love all ceroc venues to be non-smoking - I guess we'll just have to see where public opinion gets us!

Jayne
:nice:

Gadget
2nd-December-2002, 09:50 AM
While this is a 'public' forum for Ceroc people, I don't think that that it reflects a true section of cerocers; only the section that have internet access and an interest in posting on the forum.
This pole only shows that of this section of dancers, there is an overwhelming view to ban smoking from the venues - it isn't necessarily a true reflection.
However, if there were some sort of ballot at the venues, then a better selection of people could be asked and a more realistic figure given.
Is it worth the time/expense to do this? Are the organizers of venues prepared to take action on the result of a pole? Is it safe to assume that this selection does reflect a true cross-section of the ceroc public?

Dave Hancock
2nd-December-2002, 10:00 AM
Gadget
Is there some sort of correlation between internet users and non-smokers???

Although I do agree that purely on the basis of this poll that smoking can't be banned, as 30 odd votes out of 500 - a thousand regular dancers within Scotland is far too small a sample to act on.

However I think that it would be very easy to organise a ballot and ask everyone coming in at night to tick an anonymous form with only a couple of optons shown ( you could even cut it down to a staight should somking be banned at Ceroc Scotland - Yes or no).

So what does Franck think, I am taxi dancing a week on Tuesday and would certainly be more then happy to organise an Aberdeen ballot.

Franck
2nd-December-2002, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
So what does Franck think, I am taxi dancing a week on Tuesday and would certainly be more then happy to organise an Aberdeen ballot.I don't think that there is a need for a ballot at all.
As shown here , the clear view is that venues should be non-smoking.

Smoking at Ceroc venues is offensive to all dancers, but, and this is an important point, banning smoking outright would go against the relaxed / club atmosphere we are trying to promote to attract new members.
People already feel nervous when they join a Ceroc class, and are pleasantly surprised to find out that it is very similar to a 'normal' night out. They can have a drink, a smoke, sit and chat to friends, and on top of that, they learn a really easy to pick up dance!
This is important to the (outside) perception of what a Ceroc night is. However, once they have got the Ceroc bug, even heavy smokers, realise that smoking near the dance floor is bad news and generally will stop.

I am still looking into it though, and getting keener on the idea of an outright ban regardless. I will talk to the Venue managers in the next couple of weeks, as they are at the frontline and, no doubt would have to enforce such a ban (as well as stopping aerial merchants).

Franck.

TheTramp
2nd-December-2002, 10:50 AM
While this is a 'public' forum for Ceroc people, I don't think that that it reflects a true section of cerocers; only the section that have internet access and an interest in posting on the forum.
This pole only shows that of this section of dancers, there is an overwhelming view to ban smoking from the venues - it isn't necessarily a true reflection.

I agree that it isn't necessarily a true reflection. But not for the reasons that you put forward, Gadget.

The reasons that it's not a true reflection are these. Firstly, most of the people who post on the forum are at least intermediate dancers, but generally are among the better dancers. These people are less likely to tolerate smokers, because they want to spend their entire evening dancing, rather than people who haven't been dancing so long, so are more likely to sit on the side and have a drink and smoke while watching.

Secondly, with the direction the poll was going, people who would like to have a smoke might be intimidated into not actually saying so, because of being in a very small minority. If I logged onto a poll, and saw that 33 (out of 34) people had voted against my opinion, I might well not bother to actually vote.

Other than that, the sample space of the total population (ie. those who post on the forum, see the post, and can be bothered to vote) would be as reasonable as any other method of choosing a sample (other than obviously asking everyone who is at the venue - but then, how do you account for the people who are not there that evening?).

Steve

PeterL
2nd-December-2002, 10:58 AM
People already feel nervous when they join a Ceroc class, and are pleasantly surprised to find out that it is very similar to a 'normal' night out. They can have a drink, a smoke, sit and chat to friends, and on top of that, they learn a really easy to pick up dance!

The above is true. I remember my first night at ceroc. Looking at everyone dancing was very intimidating. However it was the friendliness of the people there that reduced the intimidation and made me go back.
I started at st Stephens where you do have to go outside for a ciggarette and didn't think twice about this. Most smokers are used to having to go outside to smoke, and when there is a blanket ban on smoking anyone that does smoke is not the sort of person you want there.
There must be obvious exceptions such as the case when the venus is a public bar (O Donaghues for example) but in these places simply enforce a ban around the actual dancefloor.

It is worth considering that many smokers going to ceroc especially in the new year are actually trying to quit and going to a friendly venue where they have something to do without the distraction of people smoking is an encouragement to attend rather than a discouragement.

Franck
12th-December-2002, 11:36 AM
Hi guys,

After extensive consultation (forum poll and chats with venue managers etc...), we have decided that from January 2003, all Ceroc venues in Scotland would become "Smoke free zones". Think of it as a "New Year's resolution"...

We will be printing "No smoking" signs and venue managers / teachers and Taxi-dancers will monitor the situation!

So here you go guys, another achievement, and concrete change originated from this Forum! :nice:

Franck.

TheTramp
12th-December-2002, 12:04 PM
YAY FRANCK!!!!

I'm so glad I started this poll now. Other franchise holders take note! :D

Now, if you can just find a way to may Scotland closer to London please.....

Steve:rolleyes:

CJ
12th-December-2002, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
YAY FRANCK!!!!

Now, if you can just find a way to may Scotland closer to London please.....You know, if the WHOLE world didn't revolve around London, it would be SO much easier to accomplish!!:wink:

TheTramp
12th-December-2002, 02:40 PM
It doesn't. I've been trying to get out of it for the last 6 months.

The other option is to move London nearer to Scotland. Either works fine with me!!

Steve

John S
13th-December-2002, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Franck
Hi guys,

After extensive consultation (forum poll and chats with venue managers etc...), we have decided that from January 2003, all Ceroc venues in Scotland would become "Smoke free zones". Think of it as a "New Year's resolution"...

We will be printing "No smoking" signs and venue managers / teachers and Taxi-dancers will monitor the situation!Personally I am delighted, but there may be people who have been regular stalwarts at Ceroc classes for years who will be upset by this, so I hope for their sake it is introduced sensitively, rather than as a police action.

After all, for them it is a change of the rules they have known for however long they've been coming. Also, the comment has been made to me that smokers are often unhappy about their smoking anyway, and if they have to do without Ceroc too then they'll be even more unhappy.

On the other hand, it might save their lives if they choose to give up smoking (as well as helping the rest of us who are at risk through passive smoking)!

So I think it's the correct decision, but it should be introduced with prior notice and with sensitivity.

Ronde!
29th-December-2002, 06:20 AM
Hi all,

interestingly, our region (Australian Capital Territory in Australia) went through this debate about 10 years ago. The result? Smoking is now banned in all public venues and most workplaces except those that have constructed specially ventilated smoking areas and applied for government exemption.

For the last 5 years or so (the policy was introduced in three phases), you can go out almost anywhere and not come home smelling of smoke. Not that Canberra is the nightlife capital of the world or anything. :)

Might seem extreme; but employers (including venue owners) can be sued if people develop problems from passive smoking; and everyone's quite used to it now.

Mike Allsopp
3rd-January-2003, 02:53 AM
Hi folks,

I appreciate that a lot of chat has gone on around this smoking or non-smoking issue, but I cannot understand why you are looking to Ceroc to issue a ban at venues..... it is unnecessary, do it yourself!

As a franchisee, if I decide I do not want smoking at my venues then that is it, I do not have to push HQ for support on the matter, I hire the hall, I run the night and it is my choice. It is very much the same as should I not want a particular individual to attend my night then that is it, they don't come in, no arguements, no consultation with HQ.

Conversely, however, if HQ issued a smoking ban it would not be enforcible by them, they could suggest, even recommend, but at the end of the day it is down to the franchisee.

I think individual franchisees should look at the depth of feeling at thier own venues and decide themselves.... if they allow smoking near the dance area they might find visitors will not visit again if they are used to cleaner air elsewhere.

Me, personally, I have never smoked, would rather eat my own earwax than put a lighted cigarette near my mouth but can see that persuading members to nip outdoors for thier 'fix' is the most agreeable suggestion so far...... a lot of Ceroc people do smoke but are polite enough not to indulge others involuntarily.

I think that smokers nowadays are pretty used to restrictions and accept them without too much problem.

Happy New Year all

Mike
:cheers:

Basil Brush (Forum Plant)
19th-August-2003, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Ronde!

Might seem extreme; but employers (including venue owners) can be sued if people develop problems from passive smoking; and everyone's quite used to it now.

That's the issue- passive smoking. Freedom of choice and choosing to smoke in a public place is fine, and but when it can kill others then it's a different matter.

:devil: BAN THE SMOKERS!!!

TheTramp
20th-August-2003, 12:28 AM
Franck already has....

Steve

thewacko
17th-October-2003, 01:33 PM
:devil: 5 of us so far, if we carry on this way we will be able to start our own venue and ban all non smokers
:devil:

:wink: ahh bliss:wink:

TheTramp
17th-October-2003, 01:42 PM
Please do.

The other 51 of us (you can have the person who doesn't care so at least you'll have 3 couples) will go to a nice, clean, non-polluted venue :wink: :D

Steve

PeterL
17th-October-2003, 01:44 PM
I would like to point out that I was one of the 51.

thewacko
17th-October-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by PeterL
I would like to point out that I was one of the 51.

:wink: i'm sure there are plenty of oil rigs up there, so you can all get some fresh air as well:rofl:

PeterL
17th-October-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by thewacko
:wink: i'm sure there are plenty of oil rigs up there, so you can all get some fresh air as well:rofl:

I think you are thinking of Aberdeen. My old hometown. There are none in Edinburgh.

Minnie M
6th-June-2004, 09:27 PM
What about the smoker is although "takes it outside" but comes straight in and dances :angry: the smoke/nicotine still of their hands which is then transferred on to their partners :sick:

This has happended to me a few times and has left me running to the ladies to wash my hands

As a non-smoker, not sure why this only happens with a few smokers :confused:

Chickadee
6th-June-2004, 10:26 PM
I am pretty anti-smoking and hate going to venues , as Lorna says, and coming home reeking of smoke :sick: . And on the very odd occasion you can get that awful smell wafting off a partner as you start dancing..............much worse than being 'sweaty' or 'damp' .
That's one of the reaosons I htink so many people do enjoy Ceroc - there are few smokers and few drinkers..............we all have fun :D :wink:

:yeah: Totally agree!

Minnie M
7th-June-2004, 12:02 AM
Woops :sad: sorry Christine - didn't read all the posts thoroughly :blush: didn't notice Bill's comment eg: " much worse than being 'sweaty' or 'damp' " - so much to read to get to the end of the thread :blush:

tobacco smelling hands - yuck :sick: - wish they would wash them after they have had their ciggies :rolleyes:

under par
7th-June-2004, 09:07 AM
.


It is our habit andf should not be inflicted on people who have the good sense not to do it.

I would vote to ban it from ceroc venues and I am a smoker.
When I am dancing the last thing I want is to see someone smoking it just makes me want a ciggarette myself.


Well said :worthy: :clap:

For me it is one of the pleasures of most MJ evenings is to arrive home not smelling like an ashtray as you would do for most nights out to a pub or club.

I see MJ as a form of physical aerobic excercise almost like going to a gym(but a great deal more fun).
You certainly wouldn't get smokers around the side of a gym whilst people worked out. :angry: :angry:

So let smokers take it outside or downstairs or wherever else but not near the dance floor :cheers: :clap: :yeah:

Andy McGregor
7th-June-2004, 09:37 AM
So let smokers take it outside or downstairs or wherever else but not near the dance floor :cheers: :clap: :yeah:

At last, a six-foot ten policeman that agrees with me :worthy:

p.s. Have some reputation points, officer. Oh, you want to know, "Have I been drinking?" Moi? :whistle:

Gordon J Pownall
7th-June-2004, 12:30 PM
Sooo......

no smoking inside, wash your hands, eat mints, spray deodorant, splash on the aftershave


AND COMING SOON TO A VENUE NEAR YOU

no alcohol, clean your teeth, no curry before dancing, polish your shoes, blow your nose, no tight trousers, no short skirts, no lycra, no hip grinds, no fizzy drinks with e numbers, no salty (or sweaty) nuts, no ANDY MCGREGOR IN WOMENS CLOTHES etc. etc. etc. :sick:

Where will it end Comrades ??? :eek:

I am a smoker - bloody love a fag however....and this is the point...

non smokers die as well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :whistle:


OK enough of the Bill Hicks humour.

I agree that venues (i.e., the dancfloor / main hall areas) should be smoking free and that it should be taken outside.

Please let's not get into the nanny state of asking smokers to wash their hands after a cigarette, (I've seen more men leave the loos and not wash their hands - not that I hang around there for any significant length of time you understand). - You try getting someone to go outside for a fag, inside to wash their hands, then eat mits, spray shower in a can on perfume / aftershave and then eventually get to the dancefloor before the end of the night !!! :rofl:

People should be able to (and encouraged to) take personal responsibility for themselves and other people. If I go out for a meal with Sal, (non-smoker), we will always sit in a non-smoking area - that's being considerate to the feelings of others in a reasonable (and not too difficult way). :clap:

So come on venue managers, ban smoking indoors by all means (as Adam did at our Wolsey Hall venue last Friday), but give people the opportunity and responsibility to take it outside or elsewhere without the feeling that they are lower than a rattle snake's belly in a wheel rut !!! :hug:

(I don't mean the banter type of feelings smokers experience by way of being a smoker - I mean the real social exclusion and condemnation of individuals as people percieved to be mindless or non-considerate. :tears:

(Anyone who replies that smokers must be mindless to smoke - please survey the number of Doctors, Social Workers etc etc that do smoke.....mindless I think not...)

Right - that's me done - anyone want a JiveMasters 2003 video - we have some left !!! :really:

Andy McGregor
7th-June-2004, 12:54 PM
Sooo......

(loads of smoke screen stuff)

Gordy baby

There's only one thing being proposed here: don't smoke where your smoke can be breathed in by anyone else: that means take it elsewhere, not on or near the dance floor. Cigarette smoke kills and I don't want to die before my time - and I don't want my dance partners and friends to die early either:tears:

Forget the rest of Gordon's post. He agrees with banning smoking on or near the dance floor:clap: Have some positive rep, baby:worthy:




Right - that's me done - anyone want a JiveMasters 2003 video - we have some left !!! :really:

Does anyone else get the impression that somebody ordered a few too many JiveMasters 2003 videos? Exactly how many have they got left?:devil:

Gordon J Pownall
7th-June-2004, 01:36 PM
Cheers bloke,

why use ten words when a small dissertation will do..... :clap:

Andy McGregor
7th-June-2004, 01:53 PM
Cheers bloke,

why use ten words when a small dissertation will do..... :clap:

Hey Gordy, you forgot to mention the JiveMasters 2003 video:wink:

Are they sold out or something:confused:

cerocmetro
7th-June-2004, 02:55 PM
Hey Gordy, you forgot to mention the JiveMasters 2003 video:wink:

Are they sold out or something:confused:

I thought that this would be the perfect time to mention, that at no time in the production stage, packing, mailing or marketing, was anyone involved smoking, on or near the video.

Due to such a clean environment, we were able to produce more videos than originally anticipated which is why there are still a few left.

TheTramp
7th-June-2004, 02:57 PM
I thought that this would be the perfect time to mention, that at no time in the production stage, packing, mailing or marketing, was anyone involved smoking, on or near the video.

Due to such a clean environment, we were able to produce more videos than originally anticipated which is why there are still a few left.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:worthy:

Trampy

DavidB
7th-June-2004, 03:39 PM
Due to such a clean environment, we were able to produce more videos than originally anticipated which is why there are still a few left.If nothing else, you can always use the case as an ashtray.

spindr
9th-June-2004, 02:45 PM
If nothing else, you can always use the case as an ashtray.

Hmmm, wouldn't it be more eco-friendly to record the 2004 version on them?
Don't s'pose anyone's taking pre-orders yet?

Minnie M
17th-November-2004, 06:41 PM
I think we are forunate that so many Cerocers seem to be non-smokers and those who are do go outside the venue - thanks to those who do :cheers:

I am pretty anti-smoking and hate going to venues , as Lorna says, and coming home reeking of smoke :sick: . And on the very odd occasion you can get that awful smell wafting off a partner as you start dancing..............much worse than being 'sweaty' or 'damp' .

That's one of the reaosons I htink so many people do enjoy Ceroc - there are few smokers and few drinkers..............we all have fun :D :wink:

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

Andy McGregor
17th-November-2004, 08:20 PM
(Anyone who replies that smokers must be mindless to smoke - please survey the number of Doctors, Social Workers etc etc that do smoke.....mindless I think not...)

Putting aside the fact that there will always be some mindless doctors and social workers, why do they smoke?

stewart38
18th-November-2004, 02:44 PM
Putting aside the fact that there will always be some mindless doctors and social workers, why do they smoke?


Its their way of destressing ?

Andy McGregor
17th-August-2005, 10:47 AM
Its their way of destressing ?
I suppose having a life that's 8 years shorter would reduce the total cumulative stress experienced in a lifetime :whistle:

LMC
17th-August-2005, 10:49 AM
Its their way of destressing ?
Nope, it's because they are addicts.

I gave up smoking at a *very* stressful time of life (figured I might as well, I was in a bad mood anyway).

Stress is just an excuse for denial

signed

a hypocritically rabid anti-smoking recovering-nicotine-addicted little flower

TiggsTours
19th-August-2005, 01:53 PM
Nope, it's because they are addicts.

I gave up smoking at a *very* stressful time of life (figured I might as well, I was in a bad mood anyway).

Stress is just an excuse for denial

signed

a hypocritically rabid anti-smoking recovering-nicotine-addicted little flower

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

As a total non-smoker (never even had one puff) I'd like to congratulate you, and commend you for standing as a good example to others.

I may never have smoked, but I do appreciate how difficult it is to give up an addiction. I have battled with my weight for years, I know how tough it is to give up anything you enjoy, although my "habit" doesn't inflict on others. Well done you! :clap: :clap: :clap:

straycat
12th-August-2006, 06:05 PM
Nope, it's because they are addicts.

:yeah:

Speaking as another (reformed) addict.



I gave up smoking at a *very* stressful time of life (figured I might as well, I was in a bad mood anyway).

Stress is just an excuse for denial


:respect: :clap: :clap: :clap: :respect:
Good for you. I do know exactly how hard it is...

How long ago? Four years for me :innocent:

LMC
14th-August-2006, 09:49 AM
Thanks, but have to confess that unfortunately I backslid in February. I know exactly why but don't propose to share.

I will give up again when I'm good and ready - still think it's a disgusting habit :(

straycat
14th-August-2006, 04:46 PM
Thanks, but have to confess that unfortunately I backslid in February. I know exactly why but don't propose to share.

I will give up again when I'm good and ready - still think it's a disgusting habit :(

I gave up loads of times before the successful attempt (my fairly crap joke of the period was that I was an expert on giving up, I'd done it so much...)

It did give me a great excuse for going outside whenever a song I didn't like came on...
Yes, it's a foul habit. But that doesn't stop me still desiring a ciggie on occasion - even after four years :what:
T'aint easy. Good luck for when you're good'n'ready.

Barry Shnikov
14th-August-2006, 10:05 PM
I've never been able to understand why there is any question about whether people should be allowed to smoke in a particular place or not.

The default position, is it not, is fresh (or at least, smoke-free) air. There is never any question about smoking until a smoker comes along. Therefore, it must be the smoker who seeks a licence from all others present as to whether he can smoke. One vote no settles the question.

If they want to smoke where there are no 'no votes' then that's up to them; I don't feel entitled to stop people smoking altogether, just to stop them from smoking anywhere where I am.

Having said that, I am rather bemused by the attitude taken by Edinburgh authorities to the possibility of Mel Smith smoking a cigar in a performance in which he plays the part of Churchill. The threat was to close the theatre and fine the producer. It seems that there's a bit of perspective lacking - n'est-ce pas?

Barry Shnikov
14th-August-2006, 10:07 PM
I gave up loads of times before the successful attempt (my fairly crap joke of the period was that I was an expert on giving up, I'd done it so much...)

It did give me a great excuse for going outside whenever a song I didn't like came on...
Yes, it's a foul habit. But that doesn't stop me still desiring a ciggie on occasion - even after four years :what:
T'aint easy. Good luck for when you're good'n'ready.

Overheard between two typists at my office:

One: Giving up is difficult.

Two: Cold turkey is the only way to do it, to give up smoking successfully. It's the way I always do it.

straycat
14th-August-2006, 10:47 PM
Overheard between two typists at my office:

One: Giving up is difficult.

Two: Cold turkey is the only way to do it, to give up smoking successfully. It's the way I always do it.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Although on a serious note - it's the way I did it. Earlier attempts included gum, patches, inhalers... none helped. Cold turkey did.

Dreadful Scathe
15th-August-2006, 09:11 AM
Having said that, I am rather bemused by the attitude taken by Edinburgh authorities to the possibility of Mel Smith smoking a cigar in a performance in which he plays the part of Churchill. The threat was to close the theatre and fine the producer. It seems that there's a bit of perspective lacking - n'est-ce pas?

But he threatened to do it, and said Hitler would have liked the non-smoking policy. I think the counter-threat was fair enough. Also, in the early days of such a law theres little point about being half hearted about it as you'll be in the same position as you are with litter and dog mess - its illegal but no-one cares and people are rarely fined.

Mel Smith may not like the law but if he was playing a heroin addict on stage would he insist on shooting up? how "method" does he need to get?

Lory
15th-August-2006, 09:29 AM
A reassuring conversation I had with my 15year old son yesterday..

Me: Do any of your mates smoke?

Him: (gruff adolescent voice) Only the ones who're a bit thick :cool:


Ahhh, music to my ears! :na:

Piglet
15th-August-2006, 12:38 PM
Mel Smith may not like the law but if he was playing a heroin addict on stage would he insist on shooting up? how "method" does he need to get?
I was gonna say - he was "acting" wasn't he? But like DS's analogy better.


Him: (gruff adolescent voice) Only the ones who're a bit thick
Funny that! It was exactly the same when I went to school :whistle:

Just to add that although publicans were worried about business (as they saw smokers as their main clientelle) in Scotland, not too many have had to shut down. And most are really pleasant places to be these days - especially if you're there to eat. Pubs here are trying to have more outdoor facilities so that the smokers still feel welcome - just a shame we've got the Aberdeen weather.

And good on all the smokers who are putting up with this new law! I haven't come across anyone yet who has thrown a strop or tried to get away with a sly one in a public area - I thought there would have been a bit more of a revolutionary attitude about it.

Twirly
15th-August-2006, 12:43 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Although on a serious note - it's the way I did it. Earlier attempts included gum, patches, inhalers... none helped. Cold turkey did.

Is this why giving up after Christmas is so popular? :wink:

(sorry, v boring day at work today!)

straycat
16th-August-2006, 02:41 PM
Is this why giving up after Christmas is so popular? :wink:


Probably :rofl:
Although I gave up in the summer. Amazing I didn't get food-poisoning...

Barry Shnikov
16th-August-2006, 03:23 PM
But he threatened to do it, and said Hitler would have liked the non-smoking policy. I think the counter-threat was fair enough. Also, in the early days of such a law theres little point about being half hearted about it as you'll be in the same position as you are with litter and dog mess - its illegal but no-one cares and people are rarely fined.


The object of the law is to protect people in the workplace from the dangers of passive smoking. I don't see that preventing performers from smoking is going to have any affect on the health of the employees of the theatre, and patrons may simply not attend if they so wish.

To that extent, I see it as being rather jobsworth.

MartinHarper
16th-August-2006, 03:51 PM
The default position, is it not, is fresh (or at least, smoke-free) air. There is never any question about smoking until a smoker comes along. Therefore, it must be the smoker who seeks a licence from all others present as to whether he can smoke. One vote no settles the question.

The default position is no whistling. There is never any question about whistling until a whistler comes along. Therefore, it must be the whistler who seeks a licence from all others present as to whether she can whistle. One vote no settles the question.

straycat
16th-August-2006, 03:51 PM
The object of the law is to protect people in the workplace from the dangers of passive smoking. I don't see that preventing performers from smoking is going to have any affect on the health of the employees of the theatre, and patrons may simply not attend if they so wish.

To that extent, I see it as being rather jobsworth.

What about people attending the theatre (esp. in the front row?) Are you going to stick a 'performers will be smoking' warning on all the advertising, so people know to stay away?

As I see it, if public venues are no-smoking, that should apply to everyone. Staff / performers are actually setting an example to patrons.

The threat may sound a bit daft, but it also sounds daft that Mr Smith couldn't just refrain from lighting the cigar - I seriously doubt that would have done any harm to the performance.

ducasi
16th-August-2006, 03:58 PM
The default position is no whistling. There is never any question about whistling until a whistler comes along. Therefore, it must be the whistler who seeks a licence from all others present as to whether she can whistle. One vote no settles the question.
:yeah:

I hate whistling!

ducasi
16th-August-2006, 03:59 PM
To that extent, I see it as being rather jobsworth.
I see it as enforcing the law.

straycat
16th-August-2006, 04:04 PM
:yeah:

I hate whistling!
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:


(:whistle:)

ducasi
16th-August-2006, 04:07 PM
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:


(:whistle:)
:mad:

straycat
16th-August-2006, 04:14 PM
:mad:

:whistle: :whistle: :whistle: ?

ducasi
16th-August-2006, 04:29 PM
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle: ?
:angry:

straycat
16th-August-2006, 04:33 PM
:angry:

:devil: :flower: :whistle: ;) :really: :sick: :whistle: :whistle: !

ducasi
16th-August-2006, 04:35 PM
:devil: :flower: :whistle: ;) :really: :sick: :whistle: :whistle: !
:tears:

Dreadful Scathe
16th-August-2006, 04:46 PM
The object of the law is to protect people in the workplace from the dangers of passive smoking. I don't see that preventing performers from smoking is going to have any affect on the health of the employees of the theatre, and patrons may simply not attend if they so wish.

To that extent, I see it as being rather jobsworth.

What he said he was going to do is illegal. How is it "jobsworth" to complain about that? Are there any other illegal things that would be acceptable on stage do you think ?

Its the attitude of "patrons may simply not attend if they so wish" that brought about the law in the first place. Sure its true, but its unacceptable.

Everyone I know, including all the smokers, love the new uncontaminated air we get indoors now. Maybe there are some that dont like it, havent heard of any so far!

Barry Shnikov
16th-August-2006, 09:18 PM
What about people attending the theatre (esp. in the front row?) Are you going to stick a 'performers will be smoking' warning on all the advertising, so people know to stay away?
They're going to get serious diseases (or indeed, any diseases) due to second-hand smoke after one visit to the theatre?

The threat may sound a bit daft, but it also sounds daft that Mr Smith couldn't just refrain from lighting the cigar - I seriously doubt that would have done any harm to the performance.
In many cases, I would probably agree with you. And if the actor playing Churchill was a non-smoker, then the director would be in difficulty. But I think that the play is the thing, and absent serious threats to health - which I say are not to be found here - threatening sturm und drang is unnecessary.

What if somebody was making a film of, I don't know, coal miners in the 1960s. Should the technical staff be able to bring the production to a halt unless the director agrees there is to be no smoking, no matter how unreal that would make the film?

Barry Shnikov
16th-August-2006, 09:19 PM
The default position is no whistling. There is never any question about whistling until a whistler comes along. Therefore, it must be the whistler who seeks a licence from all others present as to whether she can whistle. One vote no settles the question.

Wow. Well that certainly destroyed my argument on smoking, and no question!

Strewth, what a debater!

Barry Shnikov
16th-August-2006, 09:23 PM
What he said he was going to do is illegal. How is it "jobsworth" to complain about that? Are there any other illegal things that would be acceptable on stage do you think ?

Its the attitude of "patrons may simply not attend if they so wish" that brought about the law in the first place. Sure its true, but its unacceptable.

Everyone I know, including all the smokers, love the new uncontaminated air we get indoors now. Maybe there are some that dont like it, havent heard of any so far!

I'm complaining about the attitude being jobsworth. Smoking isn't illegal; smoking in workplaces is illegal. You can smoke immediately outside the theatre, and anyone in the queue would have absolutely no right to complain.

I don't know the wording of the statute, but if it was designed to prevent smoking as part of an actor's performance, then so much the stupider those who framed the law.

And the law is not about protecting patrons (at least, as I understand it) of entertainment venues, it is about protecting the employees. My point about patrons is that either you want to see a portrayal of a man who was in inveterate chain smoker of cigars, or you want to see something else.

straycat
16th-August-2006, 10:21 PM
They're going to get serious diseases (or indeed, any diseases) due to second-hand smoke after one visit to the theatre?


They may actually detest the smell of cigar smoke. I certainly do, and did even when I smoked ciggies. Makes me feel sick.

ducasi
17th-August-2006, 12:11 AM
What if somebody was making a film of, I don't know, coal miners in the 1960s. Should the technical staff be able to bring the production to a halt unless the director agrees there is to be no smoking, no matter how unreal that would make the film? Yes, and if they don't the police and local council (as first line enforcers) will.


I don't know the wording of the statute, but if it was designed to prevent smoking as part of an actor's performance, then so much the stupider those who framed the law. It deliberately does not exclude acting. There are legal alternatives – filming outside, or using fake cigarettes.


And the law is not about protecting patrons (at least, as I understand it) The law is there to protect anyone who would otherwise have to put up with second-hand smoke.

ShinyWeeStar
17th-August-2006, 12:29 AM
They may actually detest the smell of cigar smoke. I certainly do, and did even when I smoked ciggies. Makes me feel sick.
Funny, I'm the other way around. I hate cigarette smoke, but don't mind the smell of cigars... :confused:


The default position is no whistling. There is never any question about whistling until a whistler comes along. Therefore, it must be the whistler who seeks a licence from all others present as to whether she can whistle. One vote no settles the question.
:yeah: Great analogy!:respect:


The law is there to protect anyone who would otherwise have to put up with second-hand smoke.
:yeah: Like I said, I hate cigarette smoke; both having to breathe it in and the smell of it. So many places are so much the better for banning smoking and I haven't heard all that many smokers complain. I was out for dinner recently with a group of smokers/recent quitters who all commented on how much nicer the air inside is and that it's helping them to cut down or stay off the cigarettes.

Dreadful Scathe
17th-August-2006, 09:09 AM
I'm complaining about the attitude being jobsworth. Smoking isn't illegal; smoking in workplaces is illegal.

No, smoking in ANY enclosed public space is. That even includes bus shelters.



I don't know the wording of the statute, but if it was designed to prevent smoking as part of an actor's performance, then so much the stupider those who framed the law.

It was designed to improve the health of the nation, it just happens to prevent actors smoking as part of that.



And the law is not about protecting patrons (at least, as I understand it) of entertainment venues, it is about protecting the employees. My point about patrons is that either you want to see a portrayal of a man who was in inveterate chain smoker of cigars, or you want to see something else.

Indeed and whats to stop the actor pretending to smoke? He would no doubt pretend to beat up his wife, shoot up heroin, plant a bomb if the play/show required it - anything else it taking it a little too far :)

Barry Shnikov
17th-August-2006, 09:39 AM
They may actually detest the smell of cigar smoke. I certainly do, and did even when I smoked ciggies. Makes me feel sick.

...then don't go!!

See a play about Mother Teresa instead.

Barry Shnikov
17th-August-2006, 09:42 AM
:yeah: Great analogy!:respect:


...why? Noise is part of the natural environment. Cigarette smoke isn't. If he was talking about libraries, e.g., that would be different.

Barry Shnikov
17th-August-2006, 09:56 AM
No, smoking in ANY enclosed public space is. That even includes bus shelters.
It would appear that the Scottish law may be different from the one planned here.

It was designed to improve the health of the nation, it just happens to prevent actors smoking as part of that.
I'm in favour of that design, and I am especially in favour of making pubs, restaurants and so forth like cinemas - places you can go to without feeling sick and having your eyes water. I'm not sure that preventing what might be considered 'legitimate' use of smoking as part of theatrical performances is 'proportionate'.

Indeed and whats to stop the actor pretending to smoke? He would no doubt pretend to beat up his wife, shoot up heroin, plant a bomb if the play/show required it - anything else it taking it a little too far :)
If there are ways of faking the smoking, then I'm all in favour of it. Anyone who can come up with a realistic fake cigar would be genius!
One day, of course, there are going to be hardly any actors who smoke. So artificial props will be an absolute necessity.

straycat
17th-August-2006, 10:12 AM
...then don't go!!

See a play about Mother Teresa instead.

Way ahead of you. Already offloaded the tickets :waycool:
Will start writing the Mother Teresa play tomorrow. :worthy:

Dreadful Scathe
17th-August-2006, 11:14 AM
If there are ways of faking the smoking, then I'm all in favour of it. Anyone who can come up with a realistic fake cigar would be genius!

er..you hold something that looks like a cigar - which is what he did I believe (could even have been a real one). I think you can give the audience enough credit for them to figure out someone is "smoking" by the actors actions, without actual smoke coming out - unless they are exceptionally thick.

Gadget
17th-August-2006, 12:55 PM
The thing that bugs me about the no-smoking law is that folk congregate round doorways: you can't get into some places without taking a deep breath and swimming through the cloud of smokers. :mad:

straycat
17th-August-2006, 01:37 PM
The thing that bugs me about the no-smoking law is that folk congregate round doorways: you can't get into some places without taking a deep breath and swimming through the cloud of smokers. :mad:

Which is why God invented fire-hoses. :waycool:

Serendipity
17th-August-2006, 01:51 PM
Ah yes, the only drawback of Berko - running the gauntlet of the smokers in the bar on route to the dance rooms.

:eek:

Barry Shnikov
18th-August-2006, 08:28 AM
Way ahead of you. Already offloaded the tickets :waycool:
Will start writing the Mother Teresa play tomorrow. :worthy:
I'll be at the opening!

Barry Shnikov
18th-August-2006, 08:30 AM
er..you hold something that looks like a cigar - which is what he did I believe (could even have been a real one). I think you can give the audience enough credit for them to figure out someone is "smoking" by the actors actions, without actual smoke coming out - unless they are exceptionally thick.

That's not the issue. It would become like the elephant in the living room - pretending to smoke something that doesn't look like a lit cigar would be tremendously distracting. It would be as if you went to the Royal Shakespear Theatre and they were 'pretending' to pour wine into glasses and 'pretending' to drink it, instead of using Ribena or whatever it is that they do use.

Dreadful Scathe
18th-August-2006, 09:09 AM
That's not the issue. It would become like the elephant in the living room - pretending to smoke something that doesn't look like a lit cigar would be tremendously distracting. It would be as if you went to the Royal Shakespear Theatre and they were 'pretending' to pour wine into glasses and 'pretending' to drink it, instead of using Ribena or whatever it is that they do use.

whilst they do use non-alcoholic drinks, they may also use those comedy glasses with the liquid inside the glass itself. i.e. if the play doesnt require the audience to see an empty glass then it doesnt matter. With smoking; people are quite familiar with the act of lighting the cigarette, talking a draw and stubbing it out - all actions, that if performed by an actor, look uncannily like smoking- i cant imagine anyone walking out in outrage because "there was no smoke" or "his cigarette didnt go down so it was clearly fake". Except you that is :)

I think Tescos have a "suspension of disbelief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief)" in the freezer section. You should get one :)

straycat
18th-August-2006, 09:46 AM
That's not the issue. It would become like the elephant in the living room - pretending to smoke something that doesn't look like a lit cigar would be tremendously distracting. It would be as if you went to the Royal Shakespear Theatre and they were 'pretending' to pour wine into glasses and 'pretending' to drink it, instead of using Ribena or whatever it is that they do use.

Well - maybe after all this discussion it'll stick out like a sore thumb (or unlit cigar). If he'd just quietly used a fake cigar without making an issue of it, most people probably wouldn't have noticed. So you may have single-handedly completely ruined the whole play for the entire forum!

I hope you feel suitably guilty :wink:

Barry Shnikov
18th-August-2006, 10:07 AM
With smoking; people are quite familiar with the act of lighting the cigarette, talking a draw and stubbing it out - all actions, that if performed by an actor, look uncannily like smoking-
um-- but wouldn't that contravene the law anyway?

i cant imagine anyone walking out in outrage because "there was no smoke" or "his cigarette didnt go down so it was clearly fake". Except you that is :)
It's not outrage, just distraction from the play.
As for suspension of disbelief - a few years as a lawyer gives you invaluable training in that!

Dreadful Scathe
18th-August-2006, 10:23 AM
um-- but wouldn't that contravene the law anyway?

NO! Im descibing the actions of smoking, which, if you were to do them, would make people think you were smoking even if its a plastic straw you are holding! People will see that its a straw but still know from your actions you are treating it as a cigarette. Imagine the miracle of something that, instead of a straw, looks a bit like a cigarette - why, that would be uncanny. You would be alterting peoples realities. Someone could give the impression that they were smoking when they REALLY ARE NOT. You could invent a whole new name for people like that. I dunno, "actors" maybe.

David Bailey
18th-August-2006, 10:30 AM
You could invent a whole new name for people like that. I dunno, "actors" maybe.
What, you mean people being killed in stage plays are just, I dunno, pretending to die or something? :what:

I never though about it, but it makes sense, I guess - think of the savings you'd make, not having to recruit and train new victims every day. In fact, the more I think about it, the more it sounds like an excellent business suggestion - you should be on Dragon's Den :clap:

Oh, I wonder how many people had booked to the Mel Smith play before all the fuss, and how many after the fuss...

straycat
18th-August-2006, 10:35 AM
NO! Im descibing the actions of smoking, which, if you were to do them, would make people think you were smoking even if its a plastic straw you are holding! People will see that its a straw but still know from your actions you are treating it as a cigarette.

:yeah:

Remember a while back watching a mime artist 'become' a stage magician, pulling imaginary rabbits from an imaginary hat, holding them by the ears. He somehow made it seem so real we felt we could see the rabbits and hat, even though they didn't exist. Amazing...

Dreadful Scathe
18th-August-2006, 10:50 AM
Oh, I wonder how many people had booked to the Mel Smith play before all the fuss, and how many after the fuss...

Are you cynically suggesting something underhand ? shame on you :)

David Bailey
18th-August-2006, 12:38 PM
Are you cynically suggesting something underhand ? shame on you :)

I'd never suggest that such a well-co-ordinated media campaign could have been organised in advance.

I'm sure it all just happened spontaneously because an enterprising set of 100 or so journalists happened to investigate the same story, doggedly pursuing mysterious leads and hints until they arrived at the truth.

And I'd be shocked, shocked I say, to find out otherwise.

Barry Shnikov
18th-August-2006, 01:21 PM
NO! Im descibing the actions of smoking, which, if you were to do them, would make people think you were smoking even if its a plastic straw you are holding! People will see that its a straw but still know from your actions you are treating it as a cigarette. Imagine the miracle of something that, instead of a straw, looks a bit like a cigarette - why, that would be uncanny. You would be alterting peoples realities. Someone could give the impression that they were smoking when they REALLY ARE NOT. You could invent a whole new name for people like that. I dunno, "actors" maybe.
Bored with this.
I think there is an argument that the law is disproportionate, if it is intended to 'improve the health of the nation', if it also prevents realistic portrayal of smoking, when required, in plays. If it doesn't prevent that - because the props department has located realistic cigars/pipes/cigarettes which the actor can use, or alternatively if the audience is too dim to notice that a chain-smoking cigar-wielding character like Churchill never actually has a lit cigar in his hand or mouth during the whole performance - then it isn't disproportionate.

Piglet
19th-August-2006, 09:47 PM
The thing that bugs me about the no-smoking law is that folk congregate round doorways: you can't get into some places without taking a deep breath and swimming through the cloud of smokers. :mad:

A little birdie told me that that will be the next part of the no-smoking law to be implemented :clap:

Dreadful Scathe
21st-August-2006, 12:48 PM
Bored with this.

Oooh, lets all go home then :)



I think there is an argument that the law is disproportionate, if it is intended to 'improve the health of the nation', if it also prevents realistic portrayal of smoking, when required, in plays.

My point was that it ... DOES NOT. By realistic you seem to mean "looks,smells, behaves" like a real cigarette whereas realstic to me is when someone acts out the process of smoking just enough that you get it.

Sheesh, you'd be bloody terrible at charades :

lets see...

films
----
"Jaws" would have you off fetching a 12 foot great white shark, Rob Schnieder, a gas canister and relocating all of us to the beach.
"One flew over the cuckoos nest" - where would you find an evil nurse, a native american and an asylum ? (ceroc party night?)
"The Color of Money" - ok, this might be a bit easy
"Raiders of the Lost Ark" - you'll never find that secret bunker with the Ark of the Covenent in it, its in Area 51 y'know. (head toward canada from Bose, Idaho turn left at 14567th cactus)

music
-----
"Murder on the dance floor" - you'd be banned from Ceroc for THIS one i imagine.
"Dance the Night Away" - knackered at the end of it probably
"Hotel California" - luckily theres a village called California in Central Scotland, you dont have to go too far. You'd need to open a hotel though, it doesnt have any.
"Money for nothing" - ta, mines a guiness.

Beowulf
21st-August-2006, 01:08 PM
slightly off topic (ok WAY off topic.. but it is related to DS's comment about acting above)

My favorite quote/movie myth/urban legend/whatever is from the filming of "Marathon Man"

Dustin Hoffman , a well known method actor for one scene had to look like he hadn't slept or washed for several days.. so to "get into the role" he didn;t sleep or wash for several days

Laurence Olivier commented on his appearance and asked if he was ok to which Hoffman told him why he was looking like that.

Olivier took a long look at hoffman and is reputed to have said "Why not try acting? It's much easier!" :clap:

Back on topic and in a similar vein (or should that be root canal?) I can't see why actors ACTING smoking lessens the enjoyment of a play any. I don't care it it's a candy stick , a piece of dowling or a rolled up bit of tissue paper.. if they act like it's a cigarette while in the play.. As far as I'm concerned it's a cigarette.

I wonder if Barry used to sit in the audience with a copy of the play and heckle.. "It clearly states here he smoked a CUBAN cigar.. but that cigar is CLEARLY Nicaraguan!!" ;)

Barry Shnikov
21st-August-2006, 01:20 PM
From Dreadful Scathe and Beowfulf:
bunch of yuk yuks! about the performance of smoking

This, of course, is why film studios spend almost nothing on special effects. We are all well used to having somebody shout 'Bang!' to simulate a gun firing and 'Boom!' to signify an explosion.
As I said above, if there are realistic alternatives, I have no problem. Somebody waggling a white stick about as if it was a cigarette does not feel much like a 'realistic' alternative.

Dreadful Scathe
21st-August-2006, 01:22 PM
I wonder if Barry used to sit in the audience with a copy of the play and heckle.. "It clearly states here he smoked a CUBAN cigar.. but that cigar is CLEARLY Nicaraguan!!" ;)

:rofl: indeed

straycat
21st-August-2006, 01:25 PM
This, of course, is why film studios spend almost nothing on special effects. We are all well used to having somebody shout 'Bang!' to simulate a gun firing and 'Boom!' to signify an explosion.
As I said above, if there are realistic alternatives, I have no problem. Somebody waggling a white stick about as if it was a cigarette does not feel much like a 'realistic' alternative.

Got it! Been trying to figure out why you're so het up about this - finally sussed it. You hate Mel Smith, and want him to get mouth cancer!

Why??? What's he ever done to you? What has he done to earn this hatred you feel towards him?

He's not a secret EFT practitioner, is he?

Dreadful Scathe
21st-August-2006, 02:01 PM
This, of course, is why film studios spend almost nothing on special effects. We are all well used to having somebody shout 'Bang!' to simulate a gun firing and 'Boom!' to signify an explosion.
As I said above, if there are realistic alternatives, I have no problem. Somebody waggling a white stick about as if it was a cigarette does not feel much like a 'realistic' alternative.

And I would agree. "Waving a white stick" would not convince me either, actors tend to be a bit better than that. Its not the "prop" they should be worried about but the performance - any actors want to back me up here ? :)

whitetiger1518
21st-August-2006, 02:48 PM
And I would agree. "Waving a white stick" would not convince me either, actors tend to be a bit better than that. Its not the "prop" they should be worried about but the performance - any actors want to back me up here ? :)

Sorry, not an actor, however went to the Fringe at the weekend, and saw
"The Butler Did It!?" by the Afternoon Delight Theatre Company...(Pretty good take off of Agatha Christie's Miss Marple era stuff) there was an actor supposedly smoking a pipe - he was just acting it, but it didn't impinge on the play or the plot at all..

I would much rather have actors acting the smoking, and be able to concentrate on their acting, and on the plot, without the distracting smell of tobacco..

Cheers

Whitetiger

Prian
7th-January-2011, 02:22 PM
In Sri Lanka now it is illegal to show scenes where people are smoking and or drinking. Of course it means that large chunks of the film or TV show gets cut.

Even though I am a smoker and a drinker I think this a little extreme.

Minnie M
10th-January-2011, 07:32 AM
.... Even though I am a smoker and a drinker I think this a little extreme.

As a smoker as I am sure you do, as a non-smoker I think it is a good idea, not a good idea to glamourise bad habits especially when children could be watching.

BTW I have noticed you can't buy sweet ciggies any more :wink:

Also, isn't it nice that now you can come home from dancing NOT stinking of stale smoke :D

straycat
10th-January-2011, 09:59 AM
Even though I am a smoker and a drinker I think this a little extreme.

As a raving evangelistic reformed ex-smoker, I tend to agree. It makes me wince just thinking about the number of classic films that would be utterly ruined by this.

Lory
10th-January-2011, 11:09 AM
As a raving evangelistic reformed ex-smoker, I tend to agree. It makes me wince just thinking about the number of classic films that would be utterly ruined by this.

I've never smoked and hate it but I'm with you on this one. :yeah:

Some of my favourite films of all time would be completely butchered :doh::tears:

But, I do long for the day when we can watch these films and enjoy seeing the blissfully ignorant cast smoking and thinking it was glamorous, in the knowledge that it's history and a purely nostalgic bygone era ;)

whitetiger1518
10th-January-2011, 02:30 PM
I've never smoked and hate it but I'm with you on this one. :yeah:

Some of my favourite films of all time would be completely butchered :doh::tears:

But, I do long for the day when we can watch these films and enjoy seeing the blissfully ignorant cast smoking and thinking it was glamorous, in the knowledge that it's history and a purely nostalgic bygone era ;)

Isn't that here already??

WT

Lory
10th-January-2011, 08:14 PM
Isn't that here already??

WT
No, I mean actual 'smoking' would be just a thing of the past, not just smoking on TV.

And correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure I still see programmes where people smoke, although, I think its now mainly used by directors to 'portray' characters that are either of low social status, rebellious or criminal ...

Maybe the last two are still seen as glamourous qualities to some?

Prian
13th-January-2011, 06:45 PM
I must say I do get annoyed when people complain when I smoke in an area where smoking IS permitted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSV9MhHUYeM

Andy McGregor
24th-January-2011, 09:44 AM
I must say I do get annoyed when people complain when I smoke in an area where smoking IS permitted.Just because smoking is permitted in an area doesn't mean you are allowed to forget your manners or social responsibilities.

For example, if you're in a slow moving queue outside you would be allowed to smoke, but it would be very rude to light up as you'd cause other members of the queue to breathe your second-hand smoke. This is unfair as they really can't go anywhere else and keep their place in the queue.

Prian
24th-January-2011, 01:07 PM
Just because smoking is permitted in an area doesn't mean you are allowed to forget your manners or social responsibilities.

For example, if you're in a slow moving queue outside you would be allowed to smoke, but it would be very rude to light up as you'd cause other members of the queue to breathe your second-hand smoke. This is unfair as they really can't go anywhere else and keep their place in the queue.

Until it is made illegal I cannot and will not accept being asked not to smoke outdoors. Though I don't think there are many of those left.

In Sri Lanka the government is on an anti smoking drive, and has banned smoking in a lot of public places. Luckily for me much of the population is not and have found out and employ legal loopholes.

Andy McGregor
24th-January-2011, 02:33 PM
Until it is made illegal I cannot and will not accept being asked not to smoke outdoors.As I said, it's down to manners. If you're prepared to smoke in a queue you have no manners and probably deserve a punch on the nose - the difference is that a punch on the nose doesn't cause lung cancer, passive smoking does cause lung cancer.


In Sri Lanka the government is on an anti smoking drive, and has banned smoking in a lot of public places. Luckily for me much of the population is not and have found out and employ legal loopholes.It sounds like Sri Lanka has government that cares about the health and well-being of the population. It also sounds like some Sri Lankans have not self-respect or a death wish.

Prian
24th-January-2011, 03:30 PM
As I said, it's down to manners. If you're prepared to smoke in a queue you have no manners

You are right about manners and as such I would feel the same as those with bad manners who ask me to stop. Outside that is of course.

Andy McGregor
24th-January-2011, 03:39 PM
You are right about manners and as such I would feel the same as those with bad manners who ask me to stop. Outside that is of course.The difference is that you started it. Your smoke is assaulting them - it is causing them harm and has been shown to cause death. You are the source of the smoke and they are asking you to stop your assault. I would say that the punch on the nose is reasonable force to stop you assaulting them with a deadly weapon.

straycat
24th-January-2011, 03:54 PM
You are right about manners and as such I would feel the same as those with bad manners who ask me to stop. Outside that is of course.

I think there's often a problem of perception here. In my smoking days, it was well-nigh impossible for me to understand how bad cigarette smoke could smell to a non-smoker, particularly as I didn't want to understand :blush:

Imagine if someone were to deliberately and liberally smear themselves in ... say ... dog excrement, and come and stand in a queue next to you**. Would you be happy with that? Or would you consider that to be bad manners?

**if you happen to like that odour, repeat the thought experiment with one you detest.

Lory
24th-January-2011, 04:44 PM
**if you happen to like that odour,

:lol:

Well Prian, do you like it? :wink:

Prian
24th-January-2011, 05:40 PM
Imagine if someone were to deliberately and liberally smear themselves in ... say ... dog excrement, and come and stand in a queue next to you**. Would you be happy with that? Or would you consider that to be bad manners?

I wouldn't think it was bad manners. I'd think they were a loony and move away.

I also refer to the legality point. I will happily (or rather, not happily, but reluctantly), stop smoking outdoors, as and when it is made illegal outdoors. Until then, the people in the queue will either have to punch me or move away.

Actually Andy, coming back to Sri Lanka the Government is actually going for an all out ban on smoking. It will not however make much difference to the smoking levels in the country. Smoking here is still very socially acceptable. To the extent (and even I find it strange), that if one is a smoker and visits someone else's house for the first time and one wishes to smoke, you don't ask if you can smoke, but simply ask if they have an ashtray.

Prian
24th-January-2011, 05:49 PM
:lol:

Well Prian, do you like it? :wink:

Like it! I'm a smoker I don't notice it.::wink:

Actually I am a great fan of having to stand outside pubs and smoke (where it is required). And smoky pubs are horrible. Though I do miss the days of smoking at Ceroc venues.

Minnie M
24th-January-2011, 06:01 PM
......if they have an ashtray.

wots that ??? do you buy them on Ebay :wink:

(been renamed next door's garden) :whistle:

Lory
24th-January-2011, 08:55 PM
Smoking here is still very socially acceptable. To the extent (and even I find it strange), that if one is a smoker and visits someone else's house for the first time and one wishes to smoke, you don't ask if you can smoke, but simply ask if they have an ashtray.

You've just brought back a bad memory..

Nearly 20years ago, I gave birth to my son at 3am and as everything was fine, I came home at 9am. By midday some of my very close friends turned up to see the baby :nice:
We were all chatting, while I was feeding him, when suddenly one of my 'friends' got her cigs out and lit up :eek:
I said, "You're not seriously thinking you're going to smoke in my house, with my new baby here, are you??? :angry:

With that, she apologised but also looked very hurt that I picked her up on it! :banghead:

I've never got over that to this day!

Prian
25th-January-2011, 04:28 AM
You've just brought back a bad memory..

Nearly 20years ago, I gave birth to my son at 3am and as everything was fine, I came home at 9am. By midday some of my very close friends turned up to see the baby :nice:
We were all chatting, while I was feeding him, when suddenly one of my 'friends' got her cigs out and lit up :eek:
I said, "You're not seriously thinking you're going to smoke in my house, with my new baby here, are you??? :angry:

With that, she apologised but also looked very hurt that I picked her up on it! :banghead:

I've never got over that to this day!

Even though I smoke I do have some morals. Of course I would and would have reacted in the same way as you. I have 2 nephews (you may have seen their pics on my FB), of 2 and a half and 5 and won't smoke anywhere indoors or out if they are within 15/20 ft of me.

Andy McGregor
25th-January-2011, 05:06 AM
I also refer to the legality point. I will happily (or rather, not happily, but reluctantly), stop smoking outdoors, as and when it is made illegal outdoors. Until then, the people in the queue will either have to punch me or move away.Come on Prian. How do you think this attitude makes you seem?

When I worked in smoking cessation one of the most pertinent facts I found out was that there is nothing a GP can do that will save more lives than simply asking smokers to quit. And that's as part of a normal consultation for other things, not a special smoking clinic. The success rate for this is miniscule, but it still saves more lives than anything else during the doctor's working day.

With that in mind, Prian, I'm asking you to quit smoking :flower:

Lory
25th-January-2011, 10:26 AM
Even though I smoke I do have some morals.
I'm glad to hear it! :flower:

So then, going back to 'the queue' and morals. What if there was children, you didn't know?

Or a pregnant lady. Would you think twice about lighting up?

And do you ever consider things that you can't see..like those who suffer from asthma or emphysema or who maybe going through treatment for cancer?

Prian
25th-January-2011, 11:19 AM
I'm glad to hear it! :flower:

So then, going back to 'the queue' and morals. What if there was children, you didn't know?

Or a pregnant lady. Would you think twice about lighting up?

If they asked then I might consider it. Though it might depend on how close they were to me.


And do you ever consider things that you can't see..like those who suffer from asthma or emphysema or who maybe going through treatment for cancer?

I am asthmatic, have suffered from bronchitis since I was 2 and one of my lungs doesn't work 100%. So no to answer your question.

Lory
25th-January-2011, 11:31 AM
I am asthmatic, have suffered from bronchitis since I was 2 and one of my lungs doesn't work 100%.
and you still smoke? :what:


Ahhhhhhhh..............NOW I get the picture :whistle:

Rogboy
25th-January-2011, 12:03 PM
I quit smoking nearly 4 years ago. The reason I stopped was one day, my Son, who was a toddler, was playing under the table. I asked him what he was doing and he replied '' I'm playing Puff Puff, like you do '' :sick:... I quit the following Weekend. :grin:

Prian
25th-January-2011, 01:00 PM
I quit smoking nearly 4 years ago. The reason I stopped was one day, my Son, who was a toddler, was playing under the table. I asked him what he was doing and he replied '' I'm playing Puff Puff, like you do '' :sick:... I quit the following Weekend. :grin:
:respect:


Now this would be a reason for me to quit.

Fortunately or alas I have no such incentive at the moment.

Andy McGregor
25th-January-2011, 01:04 PM
I am asthmatic, have suffered from bronchitis since I was 2 and one of my lungs doesn't work 100%. So no to answer your question.


and you still smoke? :what:


Ahhhhhhhh..............NOW I get the picture :whistle:Loss of lung function is a very common smoking related disease called COPD. It's a sad fact for smokers with COPD is that lung function has to be reduced by 50% before many patients notice any symptoms. By then most of the damage is done and lung function continues to decline - the ONLY thing you can do to slow the decline in lung function is to quit. There are no drugs which reduce the rate of decline, all they can do is help with the breathing and reduce the risk of exacerbations - however, you can always tell when there's a COPD clinic going on because there's more people than usual smoking outside the surgery.

I'm afraid that quoting the health risks of smoking do little to get smokers to quit. As with Rogboy there's often a single trigger that makes them say "now it's time to quit".

I think that Prian shows a lack of respect for his fellow man. Reading between the lines, that probably stems from a lack of self-respect. My advice to Prian is to get professional help.

Gerry
25th-January-2011, 01:43 PM
:respect:


Now this would be a reason for me to quit.

Fortunately or alas I have no such incentive at the moment.

Go and have your lungs checked out, if your lucky your lungs have not been damaged too much.

My Dad moved back to Ireland and then found out that he only had 20% of his lungs that would work. He start off on Oxygen for 14 hours a day. Over a seven year period he found he was on Oxygen 24/7. It really is a terrible way to live and die.

It is also horrible to see your loved ones declining infront of your eyes due to smoking.

Minnie M
25th-January-2011, 04:31 PM
........It is also horrible to see your loved ones declining infront of your eyes due to smoking.

I watched my brother die of lung cancer (he was a 20 per day man) he died a couple of months after his 50th birthday - that was over 20 years ago but I still have the memories of his last few weeks, it was horrific.

Andy McGregor
25th-January-2011, 06:48 PM
My Dad moved back to Ireland and then found out that he only had 20% of his lungs that would work.The scary thing is that it's the top 20% of their lung capacity that's left working. You'd think that 20% lung capacity means that you have shallow breathing. If you want to frighten yourself you can simulate what smokers go through when they lose lung capacity. Take a deep breath and fill your lungs until you can't breathe any more. Then breathe out a little bit, letting out the same amount as you would naturally breathe at rest. Now try breathing in and out with your lungs nearly full. It's really tiring and quite scary after a few minutes: smokers with COPD have to live with this - enough to make you quit through fear? Not usually :tears: